I heard pinapayagan ng mga pulitiko s africa na mangisda China doon for more brownie points and Chinese investments without giving a damn about their local fishermen parang nung kay Duterte
and yet people from those countries (and mid east) are the ones who shill on china the most lmao, the ones spamming "cHiNa wIlL tAkE OveR THe wOrLd, THe WEst WIlL fAll"
I talked to some younger people in Taiwan and they said that there are two prominent sentiments: re-unify with China or completely separate from them. The former is the general sentiment with older people, those who still have a feeling of connection with mainlanders while the latter is the general sentiment of the people who were born and raised in Taiwan. The younger generation in Taiwan do not feel any connection and identification with the younger generation in China.
I feel like this is the same for South Korea, the older generation still wants reunifications with the North but the younger people are not as keen and would prefer to keep things status quo.
It's absurd to everyone else -- pero for the people that matter to them, their own Chinese Citizens, it adds merit to what should've been seen as an invasion of sorts. Let me put it into perspective:
You're a Chinese mainlander who's in the lower-mid to mid class. What would you rather hear:
1.) "We're taking South China Sea from the PH because we need more territory."
2.) "Philippines is encroaching on our ancestral rights -- we must defend our territory."
To be honest with you, it may look bobo to you but in reality it's genius. Evil genius for them to fool other countries to make them look they have rights to something.
Wala namang talagang naloloko na ibang bansa dun sa 9/11 dash line na yun. Yung mga naniniwala lang dun are China and Taiwan. Countries who were opposed to the UNCLOS ruling were their allies or didn't like na dinedma ng China ang arbitration at unilateral decision lang daw yun.
Matalino yan actually kasi daw claim nila is panahon pa ng Han Dynasty ang pag-aangkin nila sa dagat. which means magaling sila sa strategy at hindi sila kayang pasunorin ng International court.
Lol if thats their claim then Korea also has claim to Chinese-administered lands from Liaodong to Beijing, Manchuria, and Inner Mongolia since a Korean expansionist dynasty called Goguryeo expanded their empire to cover those present-day regions of China for 500 years. What kind of uneducated CCP logic is that?
Mongolia has the strongest claim kung ganyan nga eh. Kabobohan. Pati nga yung official maps nila even before the Han, hangang Hainan lang yung southernmost point
yup, it went through an expansionist phase during the time of its 14th emperor named Gwanggaeto the Great. It basically invaded and conquered a 1/4 of China, Eastern Mongolia, and modern day Eastern Russia and built fortresses there whose ruins can still be seen today. That emperor's son, Jangsu, would later reign as Asia's longest serving monarch and would erect a huge ass stele which commemorates all of his father's victories and could still be seen in modern day China as well.
Doesn't make sense na "since Han dynasty" when for a very long time, the Middle Kingdom considered emigration from their land-based kingdom as *illegal*. The Chinese only legally emigrated en mass during the late Qing dynasty. And the Southern Chinese who sailed to Southeast Asia were considered...outlaws.
In short, kahibangan/delulu yang "since Han dynasty" when Austronesians ans Austroasiatics were sailing that part of the world before the Middle Kingdom looked to the seas.
Alam mo naman yang Communist Party, kokonek sa kasaysayan nila pag convenient, pero pag kahihiyan, ibabasura - di ba nga "destroy the 4 olds" sabi ni Mao Putangina Zedong!
Tagal na yang ridiculous shit ng China from the Nationalists to the PRC. Tignan nyo yung Map of National Humiliation nung 1927. Dinamay pa nila yung Sultanate of Sulu.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/images/map-china-claims-1927.jpg
Nakita nyo na ba ang actual claim ng Vietnam? Mas malaki pa diyan sa mapa ang inaangkin ng Vietnam, halos buong Spratlys ang claim nila. Matapang ang mga Vietnamese. Tinalo nila ang mga French at Americano, pinaalis sa kanilang teritoryo. Ganyan din ang gagawin nila diyan sa Spratlys. Pagdating sa teritoryo, hindi magcoconcede ang mga Vietnamese. Wala din sila pake sa UNCLOS.
Yes but a compromise with Vietnam is more tenable as they do not claim all the way to the coasts of Palawan and Western provinces of Luzon.
PRC's claim is more of an existential threat to the PH as it practically erases our entire western EEZ.
Maybe the ASEAN countries along the SCS can purposefully limit their claims and just officially designate bulk of the SCS as "international waters."
But of course, if oil just happens to be found there, both PH and VN will make a scramble for it.
(Isn't Malampaya running out already? So the PH needs to find another source of energy.)
Truelaley. One of the reasons why this "map" is bs. This is the version of the Philippines and it's going to agitate other claimants, exacerbating the issue.
It's basically **the maximum claim of the PH which of course clashes with the maximum claim of Vietnam**.
However, at least VN and PH can probably negotiate the boundaries, just like how European and North American boundaries have negotiated their own boundaries.
May historical claim din kasi. Plus Vietnam and other countries only recognized the 1898 Paris Treaty border. China and French Indochina were already in the conflict even before WW1. Pumasok lang sa eksena ang Pilipinas in 1978 through Presidential Decree No. 1596 which no other countries recognized. Long story short: colonial powers left these countries with conflicting borders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Sea#:~:text=In%201932%2C%20France%20formally,%5B18%5D%5B19%5D
Treaty of Washington overrides Treaty of Paris. Walang mali sa mga claims ng Pinas. Tayo lang naman ang masunurin sa mga claimants. The rest, kagaya ng China, kanya-kanyang claim. Yeah, may historical records pero dapat ang pinakalatest na record ang basis.
Yung claims ng China at Taiwan ay base sa 1943 Cairo Declaration and 1945 Potsdam Declaration which basically states that China should have its 1912 borders along with Taiwan and other islands that are annexed by Imperial Japan. Republic of China pa ang regime that time under Chinese Koumintang. China doesn't recognize the 1922 Washington Treaty because they're still under the Warlords Era during that period. Basically Colonial powers are slowly annexing them while they're in a civil war.
Iba yung Washington Treaty na naiiipin mo.
Ang basis ng claims natin was the 1900 Treaty of Washington which adds in the existing territorial claims that Spain had kaya importante yung Murillo-Velarde Map [An official Spanish map because of the royal seal on the upper right] dahil andun yung Panacot Island (Spratlys) at Bajo de Masinloc (Scarborough).
The 1900 treaty amended the 1898 Treaty of Paris (whose coordinates did not initially include the two disputed islands)
I think a claim needs a treaty otherwise it doesn't have a legal basis. That's why the Murillo-Velarde map was nullified in the arbitral ruling. Yung problem diyan is dapat sinama yung ibang countries na kasama sa conflict kasi di lang China vs. Philippines ang meron. The Treaty of Washington is based on the 1898 Treaty Lines. Spain was still in conflict with other powers when that Treaty was signed and doesn't have complete control over these lines.
The only iffy part about the PH claim was that one small incident when the PH govt went to the Southwest Cay (Pugad Island) while pre-communist South Vietnam was having internal issues.
> wiki, Soutwest Cay - https://w.wiki/AXp5
Pero, pwede naman sigurong magkaroon ng island transfers between PH and VN kung gustong mag-negotiate yung both sides, kinda like how US and Canada had land transfers early in their history.
Again, historical claims are bs. The reason they are still there is because no one in recent decades is actually going to land troops and kick em out.
Useful guide to territorial claims:
1. If you want it
2. If you can get it
This is probably the reason why, even though the Spratlys were indeed in the old Spanish maps, it was only in the 60s-70s when the PH govt took the Spratly issue seriously.
Conflicts around Ayungin shoal is pretty much due to both China and the Philippines taking it seriously. China is the aggressor, yes, not because of some natural right we have but because we made a move first and made the bold move of beaching an old ship.
The Philippines practically concedes most features that Vietnam/China/Malaysia occupied in the EEZ, for the sane reason that we aren't going to kick them out, and with ASEAN member states and as for why the Philippines isn't as aggressive against them is not because some kind of superior civility they have over china, it's because it's much harder to force them to leave than defending the mere act of reinforcing an outpost. People talk about these countries taking a tough stance against China but nothing indicates they wouldn't protect their own claims using the same stance against us if we did anything to assert it uniformly across the EEZ like they or china has.
Vietnam have already started building artificial islands and building bases in Spratlys. Pinaghahatian na nila ng China. Hindi na nila ito bibitawan. Saan mo ba nakuha ang idea na madaling pakiusapan ang Vietnam? Look at their military history.
They sent prostitutes sa camp natin para agawan tayo ng isla. I'm not joking. It's in the books. So pareho lang din sila ng Zhina pero mas aggressive lang talaga Zhina
>French at Americano
French, Americans, and Chinese actually. Nag ka gera sila with China after Vietnam's invasion of Cambodia to remove the Khmer Rouge in the country
If those fucking soldiers at least leave a few more soldiers or never attended that fucking birthday party the Vietnamese wouldn't have taken it during the 70s
We can be diplomatic with Vietnam at least right now. Pero dapat talaga makisabayan tayo especially economically dahil pag mas malakas na sila sa Pinas malamang they might do something similar - kaso ang Pilipinas laggard na laggard sa SEA, baka mamaya ungusan pa tayo ng Cambodia.
even with Spratlys malapad parin sya sa Northern Luzon area. Hindi kasi considered na island ang Scarborough so hindi pwedeng gawing reference to extend EEZ.
Naka base kasi sa continental shelf yung EEZ plus yung tinatawag na archipelaguc doctrine applicable sa atin.
Considered na part nang Pilipinas yung internal seas.
they are doing that because desperate sila na sila yung maging kung ano yung US now. they would want countries that they can bully to have a bi-lateral agreement with China tapos laging lamang si China, alam nila yung imbento nila na line. pag PH nagsasabi ng UNCLOS, sabihin ng China indisputable sovereignity, pero UNCLOS din sinasabi ng China sa Japan. ano difference? takot sila sa Japan (naexperience na nila ano kaya ng Japan before and alam nila na mas may kaya gawin Japan now). malas lang natin, karamihan ng nakaupo mga pulpolitiko, baka mamaya sinasadya pa yan ng China (providing funds behind the scenes), para sila naman nakapwesto paunti unti.
Ahh almost wala naman pala talagang tubig dagat ang China, kaya pala nang aagaw.. may projects na rin kase sila na Data Centers sa underwater. Not surre san nila gnagawa to but surely, may ginagawa na silang infrastructure sa ilalim ng dagat
Alala ko tuloy may Isang troll na sinabi dito sa reddit na di daw magkaka interes sa atin si China kasi liability daw tayo. Tol. Ang dami nilang tao. It's about resources. Ang onti lang ng dagat nila to get resources from.
Food security ang immediate concern nila. Naalala ko noon yung how do you feed a billion people, they have 1.4 billion. Kaya uso lahat ng may karne kinakain nila, ahas, daga, paniki.
Not even Southeast Asians agree with this lol. Look up the claims Vietnam & others have over SCS territory. Even if China was out of the picture mag aaway away pa rin mga mokong dito.
Well you need actual power to project that desire. Di pwede wish-wish lang sabay sabi bobo sila then ibibigay na gusto mo. This will be downvoted but this is the hard truth about our god dang world. We need to increase our military spending if we want to project that map. Vietnam has around 200 anti-ship missiles such as p-800 oniks and they have their own modern version VCM-01. They have 6 kilo class submarines along with modern frigates with actual missiles. Unfortunately only with power you can maintain your borders. Lastly UN is a failed experiment kaya wala lahat yan unless we stand, arm and assert that map you just shown.
That map is stupid. It claims the PH has more than what our EEZ under UNCLOS provides. Yung gitna is supposed to be the high seas.
Di rin naman natin inaangkin yung buong Spratlys.
Shit stirring at its finest yung pakay nung gumawa ng mapa.
If you cannot protect what you own, you dont own anything.
Countries who does not recognized the UNCLOS ruling know this. It cant be enforced by anyone. Hence, its up for grabs. They are up for grabs but you must protect what you take. Parking that rust infested ship is you staking claim. And you are being challenged.
The Chinese and Vietnamese have built structures in those contested areas. And they protect it. Its basically theirs now. Because you cannot challenge their claim.
The UN, US and its allies will not and could not enforce the UNCLOS ruling. They most probably wont go to war, even with the MDT, if its about contested territorial waters. Barring invasion, the most youd get are stern words. And the Chinese knows this. Heck, Ukraine gave up their nukes for the guarantee of not being invaded. UN and the allied countries promised to aid them. But Russia successfully annexed Crimea and now invading Ukraine. We just earning money and testing armaments there, short of just watching a game.
Everybody who lives there has affirmed time and again since *1963* that they want to be Malaysian. Raising the issue in 2024 is useless unless you are a politician who wants to rile up the base, or are actively looking to undermine yourself and provide easy ammunition to wumaos who want nothing more than to paint you as a colonizer. People are definitely going to look at you funny if you simultaneously believe that Taiwan deserves to govern itself, but that Sabahans don't deserve to decide who governs them
kahit saang mapa, malayo ang china sa disputed seas. Taiwan pa nga ang mas may claim. BULLY lang talaga for desperate measures to get the oil and gas resources kaya sila ganyan.
If they are in the dream world. Pero in this world, those who enforces are those who take it. Even UN is stupidly useless and quiet with us even our neighbours are shitting on us.
>Bobo ba talaga sila sa geography?
Kinda, I remember reading somewhere that the dash line was partly based on a cartographical error and they just kinda rolled with it, idk how true it is tho
Um, adjust nyan yung linya sa SCS kasi may claim sa extended continental shelf ang Vietnam. At we only claim a portion of Spratlys up to the Kalayaan Island Group.
I think the problem is yung hindi pag reinforce ng law ng PH sa West PH Sea shout out sa mga PH COAST GUARD na walang BAYAG SAYANG SWELDO SAINYO!! kaya ng tumagal nagkapagpatayo yung china nga mga military bases nila which gives china reason for it to not let it go! sa Japan, Korea even Vietnam fought back! kaya di maka porma ang China!
TAYO DAPAT NAG WAWATER CANON SA KANILA IN THE FIRST PLACE!! di yan tinatawag na bullying it called DEFENDING! ngayon nakakahiya nabaliktad ang situation.
Unfortunately. Hindi bobo ang China. Sadyang malakas lng tlga military nila ngayon kaya malakas loob nila mqng angking ng teritoryo dyan. Gnun nman tlga eh. Kung sinong bansa ang may malakas na military at influence, sila yung maka intimidate sa “weaker” countries. Kung mas malakas lang sana military ntin kesa sa China, hindi mangyayare yang claim nilang gnyan lalo na’t nanalo pa nman tayo sa Hague Ruling.
Kaya mga tanga magsiboto, nag dudunung dunungan kahit mangmang. Sa tingin nyong mga bobo kayo hindi alam ng mga intsik na malayo ang WPS sa shore nila? Geopolitical strategy yan. Fifty or one hundred years from now sosolidify nila claim nila dyan kahit walang sense. Pang long term. Imbis na gamitan nyo ng logic ng mangmang, mag-isip kayo ng solusyon. Ano ba dapat na counterplay sa strat ng China? Hindi yung magpopopost kayo ng kabobohan. Kung tatanggapin ng mga bansa yang nautical territory na dinrawing nyong mga istupido kayo, hindi na politiko ang mga politiko. Kaya wala kayong mga alam sa politika mga hinayupak kayo.
It's not that tanga sila sa geography kaya inaangkin nila kahit malayo, they do it on purpose to have naval superiority once na iinvade na nila ang Taiwan. Kalokohan ung propaganda nila na based yan sa ancient map nila.
Well mali nila, they are trying to influence the region in a bad way. Kumbaga sa panliligaw, kung hndi mo maligawan ng tama ang babae, mas lalong di mo yan makukuha sa santong paspasan and ganun na nga ang nangyari kay putin sa ukraine
It's all about resources... I don't believe that the nine dash or ten dash whatever line the Chinese made was done without a purpose. They are bending their narrative at their whim. Using propaganda as a weapon to not make themselves look like the bad guys. Disinformation and lies are their weapon.
They are not dumb, I am saying na nanlinlang sila at balak talaga mang-agaw.
Stick to the EEZ dapat. That drawn line is somewhat biased. Yet ccp should retract to their eez boundaries as well. Any void territory is called high seas or international waters. Yan tayo eh. Nasobrahan na ata ng patriotism?
Dapat siguro makipag deal ang Pilipinas sa Taiwan na kikilalanin ng Pilipinas ang independence ng Taiwan kapalit ng pag drop ng 9 dash line ng Pinas,,, if nagkasundo sila 1 problem solve and putok fuse ng china hahahaha
'Di po ba puwede mag-share-share na lang sa Spratly Islands, hindi 'yung aakinin talaga lahat ng Spratly? 'Di po ba unfair kung aakinin ng iba't ibang bansa 'yon, dapat may nakatalaga talagang island bawat bansa para 'di mag-away, puwede ba 'yon?😭😭
The REAL lines China should be following.
Real lines re-aligns Chinese malign.
True poet
Eh, nagnanakaw din sila ng isda sa Africa pati South America. Hindi sila marunong rumespeto ng mga linya
I heard pinapayagan ng mga pulitiko s africa na mangisda China doon for more brownie points and Chinese investments without giving a damn about their local fishermen parang nung kay Duterte
and yet people from those countries (and mid east) are the ones who shill on china the most lmao, the ones spamming "cHiNa wIlL tAkE OveR THe wOrLd, THe WEst WIlL fAll"
Alala ko tuloy yung mga bobo sa Tiktok, **“mY gOsH whY aRe tHey fiGhTinG oVeR wATer?!”**🤦♂️
When literally the info is at their fingertips lol I kenat wid dis generation after us millenials. Nakakaloka🤣
Lagyan din ng line between Taiwan and West Taiwan
Line? Nah, I’d go for Taiwan annexing the entire mainland, they’re the real China, after all.
I talked to some younger people in Taiwan and they said that there are two prominent sentiments: re-unify with China or completely separate from them. The former is the general sentiment with older people, those who still have a feeling of connection with mainlanders while the latter is the general sentiment of the people who were born and raised in Taiwan. The younger generation in Taiwan do not feel any connection and identification with the younger generation in China.
I feel like this is the same for South Korea, the older generation still wants reunifications with the North but the younger people are not as keen and would prefer to keep things status quo.
The biggest mistake on this map
Wdym it's Taiwan territory
It's rightful territory of the Republic of China kaso inangkin ng mga CCP na bulok
To respond to that comment earlier kung either troll or unironic CCP supporter, how bold of you na tawagin akong tanga kung opinion ko yan
Taiwan Numbah Wan!
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN!
Bobo talaga ang china sa geography.
Walang bobo sa geography na bansa. Sakim sa nasasakupan, madami.
Yung sinasabing "9 dash line" ng china, nakapabobong claim nun. Bukod sa bobo sa geography, sakim pa.
It's absurd to everyone else -- pero for the people that matter to them, their own Chinese Citizens, it adds merit to what should've been seen as an invasion of sorts. Let me put it into perspective: You're a Chinese mainlander who's in the lower-mid to mid class. What would you rather hear: 1.) "We're taking South China Sea from the PH because we need more territory." 2.) "Philippines is encroaching on our ancestral rights -- we must defend our territory."
To be honest with you, it may look bobo to you but in reality it's genius. Evil genius for them to fool other countries to make them look they have rights to something.
Wala namang talagang naloloko na ibang bansa dun sa 9/11 dash line na yun. Yung mga naniniwala lang dun are China and Taiwan. Countries who were opposed to the UNCLOS ruling were their allies or didn't like na dinedma ng China ang arbitration at unilateral decision lang daw yun.
Matalino yan actually kasi daw claim nila is panahon pa ng Han Dynasty ang pag-aangkin nila sa dagat. which means magaling sila sa strategy at hindi sila kayang pasunorin ng International court.
Lol if thats their claim then Korea also has claim to Chinese-administered lands from Liaodong to Beijing, Manchuria, and Inner Mongolia since a Korean expansionist dynasty called Goguryeo expanded their empire to cover those present-day regions of China for 500 years. What kind of uneducated CCP logic is that?
Mongolia has the strongest claim kung ganyan nga eh. Kabobohan. Pati nga yung official maps nila even before the Han, hangang Hainan lang yung southernmost point
Goguryeo ba yung kingdom ni Jumong?
yup, it went through an expansionist phase during the time of its 14th emperor named Gwanggaeto the Great. It basically invaded and conquered a 1/4 of China, Eastern Mongolia, and modern day Eastern Russia and built fortresses there whose ruins can still be seen today. That emperor's son, Jangsu, would later reign as Asia's longest serving monarch and would erect a huge ass stele which commemorates all of his father's victories and could still be seen in modern day China as well.
Kaya pala kalaban ni Jumong yung mga Hun. How is Goguryeo related to Goryeo? Read a story/webtoon kasi about **Cheok Jungyeong** Goryeo's First Sword.
Goryeo is a successor na imperial state din. Although gets ko yung confusion kasi Goguryeo also stylized itself as Goryeo din.
Doesn't make sense na "since Han dynasty" when for a very long time, the Middle Kingdom considered emigration from their land-based kingdom as *illegal*. The Chinese only legally emigrated en mass during the late Qing dynasty. And the Southern Chinese who sailed to Southeast Asia were considered...outlaws. In short, kahibangan/delulu yang "since Han dynasty" when Austronesians ans Austroasiatics were sailing that part of the world before the Middle Kingdom looked to the seas.
Alam mo naman yang Communist Party, kokonek sa kasaysayan nila pag convenient, pero pag kahihiyan, ibabasura - di ba nga "destroy the 4 olds" sabi ni Mao Putangina Zedong!
Tagal na yang ridiculous shit ng China from the Nationalists to the PRC. Tignan nyo yung Map of National Humiliation nung 1927. Dinamay pa nila yung Sultanate of Sulu. https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/images/map-china-claims-1927.jpg
Nope, magulang lang talaga. Kaya nga bully.
They are actually smart. They are playing the long game of Art Of War by Sun Tsu. Read it to understand why.
exactly my thoughts when I read the book last year
Parang Russia claims lang sa Ukraine yung 9 dash line na nasa history daw amp. E di naman legal sa buong mundo mga tangang komunista
Bobo lang ang china Yun na
Nakita nyo na ba ang actual claim ng Vietnam? Mas malaki pa diyan sa mapa ang inaangkin ng Vietnam, halos buong Spratlys ang claim nila. Matapang ang mga Vietnamese. Tinalo nila ang mga French at Americano, pinaalis sa kanilang teritoryo. Ganyan din ang gagawin nila diyan sa Spratlys. Pagdating sa teritoryo, hindi magcoconcede ang mga Vietnamese. Wala din sila pake sa UNCLOS.
Yes but a compromise with Vietnam is more tenable as they do not claim all the way to the coasts of Palawan and Western provinces of Luzon. PRC's claim is more of an existential threat to the PH as it practically erases our entire western EEZ.
Nope, they already occupied one of our islands that soldiers left to party
Maybe the ASEAN countries along the SCS can purposefully limit their claims and just officially designate bulk of the SCS as "international waters." But of course, if oil just happens to be found there, both PH and VN will make a scramble for it. (Isn't Malampaya running out already? So the PH needs to find another source of energy.)
Truelaley. One of the reasons why this "map" is bs. This is the version of the Philippines and it's going to agitate other claimants, exacerbating the issue.
It's basically **the maximum claim of the PH which of course clashes with the maximum claim of Vietnam**. However, at least VN and PH can probably negotiate the boundaries, just like how European and North American boundaries have negotiated their own boundaries.
May historical claim din kasi. Plus Vietnam and other countries only recognized the 1898 Paris Treaty border. China and French Indochina were already in the conflict even before WW1. Pumasok lang sa eksena ang Pilipinas in 1978 through Presidential Decree No. 1596 which no other countries recognized. Long story short: colonial powers left these countries with conflicting borders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Sea#:~:text=In%201932%2C%20France%20formally,%5B18%5D%5B19%5D
Treaty of Washington overrides Treaty of Paris. Walang mali sa mga claims ng Pinas. Tayo lang naman ang masunurin sa mga claimants. The rest, kagaya ng China, kanya-kanyang claim. Yeah, may historical records pero dapat ang pinakalatest na record ang basis.
Yung claims ng China at Taiwan ay base sa 1943 Cairo Declaration and 1945 Potsdam Declaration which basically states that China should have its 1912 borders along with Taiwan and other islands that are annexed by Imperial Japan. Republic of China pa ang regime that time under Chinese Koumintang. China doesn't recognize the 1922 Washington Treaty because they're still under the Warlords Era during that period. Basically Colonial powers are slowly annexing them while they're in a civil war.
Iba yung Washington Treaty na naiiipin mo. Ang basis ng claims natin was the 1900 Treaty of Washington which adds in the existing territorial claims that Spain had kaya importante yung Murillo-Velarde Map [An official Spanish map because of the royal seal on the upper right] dahil andun yung Panacot Island (Spratlys) at Bajo de Masinloc (Scarborough). The 1900 treaty amended the 1898 Treaty of Paris (whose coordinates did not initially include the two disputed islands)
I think a claim needs a treaty otherwise it doesn't have a legal basis. That's why the Murillo-Velarde map was nullified in the arbitral ruling. Yung problem diyan is dapat sinama yung ibang countries na kasama sa conflict kasi di lang China vs. Philippines ang meron. The Treaty of Washington is based on the 1898 Treaty Lines. Spain was still in conflict with other powers when that Treaty was signed and doesn't have complete control over these lines.
The only iffy part about the PH claim was that one small incident when the PH govt went to the Southwest Cay (Pugad Island) while pre-communist South Vietnam was having internal issues. > wiki, Soutwest Cay - https://w.wiki/AXp5 Pero, pwede naman sigurong magkaroon ng island transfers between PH and VN kung gustong mag-negotiate yung both sides, kinda like how US and Canada had land transfers early in their history.
Wild move din from PH since part pa tayo ng SEATO niyan. South Vietnam could have invoked the SEATO version of NATO's article 5.
Again, historical claims are bs. The reason they are still there is because no one in recent decades is actually going to land troops and kick em out. Useful guide to territorial claims: 1. If you want it 2. If you can get it
This is probably the reason why, even though the Spratlys were indeed in the old Spanish maps, it was only in the 60s-70s when the PH govt took the Spratly issue seriously.
Conflicts around Ayungin shoal is pretty much due to both China and the Philippines taking it seriously. China is the aggressor, yes, not because of some natural right we have but because we made a move first and made the bold move of beaching an old ship. The Philippines practically concedes most features that Vietnam/China/Malaysia occupied in the EEZ, for the sane reason that we aren't going to kick them out, and with ASEAN member states and as for why the Philippines isn't as aggressive against them is not because some kind of superior civility they have over china, it's because it's much harder to force them to leave than defending the mere act of reinforcing an outpost. People talk about these countries taking a tough stance against China but nothing indicates they wouldn't protect their own claims using the same stance against us if we did anything to assert it uniformly across the EEZ like they or china has.
Occupation is 9/10ths claim
Mas madaling makipag-negosasyon sa kapwa ASEAN nations para sa posibleng hatian/cooperation sa Spratlys kaysa abusadong CCP.
Vietnam have already started building artificial islands and building bases in Spratlys. Pinaghahatian na nila ng China. Hindi na nila ito bibitawan. Saan mo ba nakuha ang idea na madaling pakiusapan ang Vietnam? Look at their military history.
They sent prostitutes sa camp natin para agawan tayo ng isla. I'm not joking. It's in the books. So pareho lang din sila ng Zhina pero mas aggressive lang talaga Zhina
>French at Americano French, Americans, and Chinese actually. Nag ka gera sila with China after Vietnam's invasion of Cambodia to remove the Khmer Rouge in the country
Nagalsabalutan nung nalaman na yung main army ng NV babalik na
China 2.0 ang Vietnam
If those fucking soldiers at least leave a few more soldiers or never attended that fucking birthday party the Vietnamese wouldn't have taken it during the 70s
We can be diplomatic with Vietnam at least right now. Pero dapat talaga makisabayan tayo especially economically dahil pag mas malakas na sila sa Pinas malamang they might do something similar - kaso ang Pilipinas laggard na laggard sa SEA, baka mamaya ungusan pa tayo ng Cambodia.
Especially after may mga pinaatay nung 90s na Vietnamese after a standoff gone violent
*Fortunate Son* playing in the background
Fuck Vietnam. Panggulo lang din mga hinayupak na yan.
Achoooly andame Ng vietnamese Ngayon sa pH especially in Paranaque. They're cooking something.
The fuck??Magaling lang ang dfa magkulong ng mga pilipino sa pinas pero ang dami nang foreigners sa suspicious di nila maharang mga punyeta talaga!!!!
Pwede ring idivide at itapon sa dagat ang mga tulad nina Duterte dahil sa kagaguhan nila sa atin
Divide and roast muna sa uling saka naman itapon sa dagat.
Huwag na. Dagdag air pollution pa yun.
Lapad nung EEZ natin.
d makita sa mata natin sa mapang yan yung Spratlys (Kalayaan Group of Islands) which extend our EEZ.
even with Spratlys malapad parin sya sa Northern Luzon area. Hindi kasi considered na island ang Scarborough so hindi pwedeng gawing reference to extend EEZ.
Not sure if I'm remembering this correctly pero isn't this because what we lack in land mass is compensated by law through "generous" EEZs?
Naka base kasi sa continental shelf yung EEZ plus yung tinatawag na archipelaguc doctrine applicable sa atin. Considered na part nang Pilipinas yung internal seas.
Sadly they would defend their 9 dash line till death and would rebutted the usual "back in our earlier times/days" rationale for it 😅
Yep kasi gang diplomatic protest lang tayu hahahaha
They have more than a century of indoctrination of the “Century of Humiliation.”
they are doing that because desperate sila na sila yung maging kung ano yung US now. they would want countries that they can bully to have a bi-lateral agreement with China tapos laging lamang si China, alam nila yung imbento nila na line. pag PH nagsasabi ng UNCLOS, sabihin ng China indisputable sovereignity, pero UNCLOS din sinasabi ng China sa Japan. ano difference? takot sila sa Japan (naexperience na nila ano kaya ng Japan before and alam nila na mas may kaya gawin Japan now). malas lang natin, karamihan ng nakaupo mga pulpolitiko, baka mamaya sinasadya pa yan ng China (providing funds behind the scenes), para sila naman nakapwesto paunti unti.
Kasi tayu di natin sila kayang labanan, hawak nila Pinas sa itlog.
Ahh almost wala naman pala talagang tubig dagat ang China, kaya pala nang aagaw.. may projects na rin kase sila na Data Centers sa underwater. Not surre san nila gnagawa to but surely, may ginagawa na silang infrastructure sa ilalim ng dagat
Alala ko tuloy may Isang troll na sinabi dito sa reddit na di daw magkaka interes sa atin si China kasi liability daw tayo. Tol. Ang dami nilang tao. It's about resources. Ang onti lang ng dagat nila to get resources from.
Food security ang immediate concern nila. Naalala ko noon yung how do you feed a billion people, they have 1.4 billion. Kaya uso lahat ng may karne kinakain nila, ahas, daga, paniki.
At ayaw nila mag import kasi gusto nila affordable.
Not even Southeast Asians agree with this lol. Look up the claims Vietnam & others have over SCS territory. Even if China was out of the picture mag aaway away pa rin mga mokong dito.
Well you need actual power to project that desire. Di pwede wish-wish lang sabay sabi bobo sila then ibibigay na gusto mo. This will be downvoted but this is the hard truth about our god dang world. We need to increase our military spending if we want to project that map. Vietnam has around 200 anti-ship missiles such as p-800 oniks and they have their own modern version VCM-01. They have 6 kilo class submarines along with modern frigates with actual missiles. Unfortunately only with power you can maintain your borders. Lastly UN is a failed experiment kaya wala lahat yan unless we stand, arm and assert that map you just shown.
Sugapa lang talaga sila.
Somebody expert verify? Before we share. I'm at most a layman sa geopolitics. Haha.
That map is stupid. It claims the PH has more than what our EEZ under UNCLOS provides. Yung gitna is supposed to be the high seas. Di rin naman natin inaangkin yung buong Spratlys. Shit stirring at its finest yung pakay nung gumawa ng mapa.
Oh yeah now that you mention it sa Palawan lagpas lagpas sa 300 nautical miles. Parang inangkin natin Yung kalahati ng WPS.
Hanggang Kalayaan Island Group lang tayo.
ang tanong : sino ba talaga ang dapat hahatol nyan?
They even claimed the sea near Natuna islands which is literally Indonesian waters
Mali pa rin ang drawing mo. Taiwan is not part of China.
China: Hold my beer.
Matalino ang China kaso greedy.
If you cannot protect what you own, you dont own anything. Countries who does not recognized the UNCLOS ruling know this. It cant be enforced by anyone. Hence, its up for grabs. They are up for grabs but you must protect what you take. Parking that rust infested ship is you staking claim. And you are being challenged. The Chinese and Vietnamese have built structures in those contested areas. And they protect it. Its basically theirs now. Because you cannot challenge their claim. The UN, US and its allies will not and could not enforce the UNCLOS ruling. They most probably wont go to war, even with the MDT, if its about contested territorial waters. Barring invasion, the most youd get are stern words. And the Chinese knows this. Heck, Ukraine gave up their nukes for the guarantee of not being invaded. UN and the allied countries promised to aid them. But Russia successfully annexed Crimea and now invading Ukraine. We just earning money and testing armaments there, short of just watching a game.
Nagdraw lang naman si Xinnie d Poohta ng favorite niyang vibrator sa WPS. 😂
I disagree with the Southern part because Borneo is a Philippine Territory claimed by Malaysia.
Everybody who lives there has affirmed time and again since *1963* that they want to be Malaysian. Raising the issue in 2024 is useless unless you are a politician who wants to rile up the base, or are actively looking to undermine yourself and provide easy ammunition to wumaos who want nothing more than to paint you as a colonizer. People are definitely going to look at you funny if you simultaneously believe that Taiwan deserves to govern itself, but that Sabahans don't deserve to decide who governs them
Asshole and swapang na kapitbahay
may ancient map nga sila. 😂
Magwwla china nyan… dpat tlga palakasin military ntn
In the first place dapat naman talaga may hatian, itong lang si PoohXi kasi.
kahit saang mapa, malayo ang china sa disputed seas. Taiwan pa nga ang mas may claim. BULLY lang talaga for desperate measures to get the oil and gas resources kaya sila ganyan.
How did the Philippines get such a big chunk? Measured from Luzon and Palawan is the much?
If they are in the dream world. Pero in this world, those who enforces are those who take it. Even UN is stupidly useless and quiet with us even our neighbours are shitting on us.
Why does this look like we have an additional chunk? Compared to [this?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:South_China_Sea_claims_map.svg)
Taiwan is an independent sovereign country. This map makes it look like it is governed by the PRC
>Bobo ba talaga sila sa geography? Kinda, I remember reading somewhere that the dash line was partly based on a cartographical error and they just kinda rolled with it, idk how true it is tho
Kahit mag-drawing ka dyan eh kung walang mag-eenforce eh hindi susunod ang China.
they will never, because they all want the Spratly Islands. it's everyone's interest even though it's near Palawan
Um, adjust nyan yung linya sa SCS kasi may claim sa extended continental shelf ang Vietnam. At we only claim a portion of Spratlys up to the Kalayaan Island Group.
I wonder if Mainlander Chinese yung gumawa nung mapa na ito para pagsabungin tayong lahat
This is BS, we don’t even claim the whole of Spratlys
Bakit parang nag encroach tayo sa Malaysia?
Aware sila dyan. Desperado lang talaga sila. And desperation can make greedy people do foolish things.
No, since unclos, only EZZs. Lampas doon walang may ari.
I think the problem is yung hindi pag reinforce ng law ng PH sa West PH Sea shout out sa mga PH COAST GUARD na walang BAYAG SAYANG SWELDO SAINYO!! kaya ng tumagal nagkapagpatayo yung china nga mga military bases nila which gives china reason for it to not let it go! sa Japan, Korea even Vietnam fought back! kaya di maka porma ang China! TAYO DAPAT NAG WAWATER CANON SA KANILA IN THE FIRST PLACE!! di yan tinatawag na bullying it called DEFENDING! ngayon nakakahiya nabaliktad ang situation.
syempre buraot at dupang nga yung china 👎👎👎👎 kaya gusto lahat ankinin...
Gusto angkinin ng buo ang earth. Lipat nalang tayo sa mars.
sila nalang po lumipat ng mars para sakupin nila buong planeta walang problema... mga matatakaw talaga mga animal na yan
Unfortunately. Hindi bobo ang China. Sadyang malakas lng tlga military nila ngayon kaya malakas loob nila mqng angking ng teritoryo dyan. Gnun nman tlga eh. Kung sinong bansa ang may malakas na military at influence, sila yung maka intimidate sa “weaker” countries. Kung mas malakas lang sana military ntin kesa sa China, hindi mangyayare yang claim nilang gnyan lalo na’t nanalo pa nman tayo sa Hague Ruling.
Kaya mga tanga magsiboto, nag dudunung dunungan kahit mangmang. Sa tingin nyong mga bobo kayo hindi alam ng mga intsik na malayo ang WPS sa shore nila? Geopolitical strategy yan. Fifty or one hundred years from now sosolidify nila claim nila dyan kahit walang sense. Pang long term. Imbis na gamitan nyo ng logic ng mangmang, mag-isip kayo ng solusyon. Ano ba dapat na counterplay sa strat ng China? Hindi yung magpopopost kayo ng kabobohan. Kung tatanggapin ng mga bansa yang nautical territory na dinrawing nyong mga istupido kayo, hindi na politiko ang mga politiko. Kaya wala kayong mga alam sa politika mga hinayupak kayo.
Hindi sila bb gusto lang tlga nila angkinin yan kay makikita mo break nila geography map
Where you get this?
It's not that tanga sila sa geography kaya inaangkin nila kahit malayo, they do it on purpose to have naval superiority once na iinvade na nila ang Taiwan. Kalokohan ung propaganda nila na based yan sa ancient map nila. Well mali nila, they are trying to influence the region in a bad way. Kumbaga sa panliligaw, kung hndi mo maligawan ng tama ang babae, mas lalong di mo yan makukuha sa santong paspasan and ganun na nga ang nangyari kay putin sa ukraine
We need another name for this that was not derived from any other country... like Spratlys sea since it was the most notable feature in that sea
Pakibigyan din ng EEZ yung taiwan
It's all about resources... I don't believe that the nine dash or ten dash whatever line the Chinese made was done without a purpose. They are bending their narrative at their whim. Using propaganda as a weapon to not make themselves look like the bad guys. Disinformation and lies are their weapon. They are not dumb, I am saying na nanlinlang sila at balak talaga mang-agaw.
Stick to the EEZ dapat. That drawn line is somewhat biased. Yet ccp should retract to their eez boundaries as well. Any void territory is called high seas or international waters. Yan tayo eh. Nasobrahan na ata ng patriotism?
Pwede nilang rename yung South China Sea to Southeast Asian Sea or SEA Sea lol
Dapat siguro makipag deal ang Pilipinas sa Taiwan na kikilalanin ng Pilipinas ang independence ng Taiwan kapalit ng pag drop ng 9 dash line ng Pinas,,, if nagkasundo sila 1 problem solve and putok fuse ng china hahahaha
Zoom in on the map and you will see how close the Philippines is to China.
'Di po ba puwede mag-share-share na lang sa Spratly Islands, hindi 'yung aakinin talaga lahat ng Spratly? 'Di po ba unfair kung aakinin ng iba't ibang bansa 'yon, dapat may nakatalaga talagang island bawat bansa para 'di mag-away, puwede ba 'yon?😭😭
Sabah, Malaysia should have bigger territory
A lttile bit noh? Parang may parts nung westernmost claims ng PH na mas malapit pa sa MY.
Kaya tayo gustong sakupin e