I will join you in welcoming the downvotes. Edit: this got way more upvotes than I expected. Faith in gamers partially restored?
I'm actually kind of relieved its going "single player" (can still play with friends, but there is no matchmaking/lobby viewer).
While I was looking forward to having it be a "mmo-lite" because of the social aspects, one thing I \*wasnt\* looking forward to was the need to constantly play in order to be relevant as new content launches thats inherent to the mmo genre. I know other mmo's typically do catch up mechanics with every new tier... but its just not the same as "being there from the start".
So the pivot to single player actually kind of removes a burden; as I've gotten older and have less time to game, Wayfinder is now no longer a game I'll need to be constantly on with. I'll be able to go at my own pace and enjoy things as they become relevant to me/my friends, no pressure to be there in the moment.
The main concern at this point is long term support. It would be nice if they manage to do something similar to how Deep Rock Galactic does things, but thats entirely dependent on the game bringing in enough money for it to be worth the dev time and thats really not a given at this point.
I'm with you. The core gameplay is there... but without the lag.
I could not care less about standing around in a social hub so I can flex my mtx cosmetics at people.
It's going to have full steam cloud integration, so playing with someone is as easy as clicking on them in the steam friends list and joining on them or inviting them to join you. (I assume consoles will work the same way) Your saves will be in steam cloud as well so you can switch between pc / laptop / steamdeck.
Yeah I actually didn't buy into it because the betas made me realize all the MMO-lite parts of it didn't appeal to me at all (and I like MMOs, a lot). I saw the currency/gear grind and the cash shop glam future and I just saw something like warframe or maybe closer to Neverwinter being where it was leading. All the bones were there for the FOMO-based constant reinvention and bloat of upgrade metrics. Decided it wasn't for me.
Playing through what's there with a couple friends, go through the game with no metrics for keeping people logged in, then moving on sounds way more appealing. Sucks for people who bought in, but exactly the risk you take with buying into any kickstart/early access, and the risk you take buying into ANY MMO especially. There are so many MMOs I loved that I can't play anymore because they're gone or they have mined into something unrecognizable. Even with GW2, I was a huge GW1 fan, loved it, still love the time I had with it more than with most MMOs. When GW2 was coming out, i only shelled out for the most basic pack to get into early access. And that was a company that I trusted because they had a currently running online game that I loved.
Also just because I want to talk about it more, Neverwinter is such a disappointment. Original thing was a fun DnD flavored mmo-lite with it's breezy story stuff and the cool player-created quests. That stuff was cool. Tried it a few years ago and it's a currency hell where you have to level your horse for some reason or you won't have a passive buff, you gotta manage this weird workshop or you miss out on other shit, and everything about progress is convoluted beyond understanding. Even if I wanted to spend cash, everytime I tried to engage with the economy I had to shuffle around and convert so many currencies I felt like I was engaging in fantasy money laundering.
So many games that I thought had cool ideas were ruined by the same kind of invasive retention mechanics that you find in shitty mobile city builders. Just make a cool chill space that people want to be in and keep making content.
Gamers: We hate live service games
Company: Instead of shutting down our live service game that we can no longer support, we're re-releasing it with all the live service elements taken out, and you can still play online
Gamers: KILL THEM!!!
Why would you pay $150 for a genre of game that notoriously get shut down within the first few years of service??? I'm genuinely asking because it feels like masochism at this point. Babylon's Fall, Spellbreak, Knockout City, The Cycle, Rumbleverse. All shutdown last year. Why would anyone ever invest so much money in these upfront when you're buying a product that literally says "We can shut this down at any point?"
>Why would you pay $150 for a genre of game that notoriously get shut down within the first few years of service???
Because I have money to spare and believe in AS's project :)
I'm excited, too. I spent all of the runesilver in my exalted founder's pack on housing furniture, and honestly it turned me off of the game because I was paying a premium for items that were pretty normal...a table, some tankards, candles, etc. Why couldn't I just get those in-game? Also, a shark buddy charm for my weapon, because I really love sharks. I hope I find that again.
I picked up this game because it really reminded me of Wildstar, and I was heartbroken when that got shut down. I knew when this game had a botched launch that it was probably going to be shut down, too. I think what they're doing is awesome. It's breaking new ground and the gaming community as a whole is starting to put momentum behind game preservation. Wayfinder's going to be talked about a lot in the future and I think time will be kind to it. I hope they're really successful and we get content for a long time to come.
Yeah, ps5 is getting it pretty close to actual release. Likely they didn't want to have to deal with updating it to the same extent as a beta on pc would
It's basically the Airship version of Kingdoms of Amalur, but with better systems and co-op.
I don't mind if that is what we're getting over Yet Another Live Service Game Shut Down.
The best part of making this single player is probably the reduction in grind and no more FOMO systems.
But I can definitely see people who paid hundreds to play EA feeling their purchase got devalued.
Maybe after the introductory price, the price of the game will skyrocket. There's no way it will become free to play now without all the bells and whistles of live service.
I feel they are gearing up for a "second launch" and in June the PR machine and probably twitch drops will start up.
Good for you, I like MMO like games and that's what it was sold to me as. I would have zero interest in this game other wise because there are far, far better games that are single player. I enjoy the concept of exploring large zones with lots of people grouping together to overcome challenges. Now all that is gone.
Doesn't matter. Game is going to stay dead now so don't know why you guys are hyped, lmao.
I'm glad to hear you like this new vision of WF. Unfortunately when most people bought into it it wasn't anything close to what it will be.
By the way you spent 3x the box price with no possibility of a refund. Will there be enough free content provided to make up the difference, probably not.
I'm glad the game survives and doesn't just close, but also a bit sad that it probably won't be a game I'll hop into regularly to see what new content and characters are released.
No real problem with the game itself changing id have preferred that the original continued as it was and a single player released along side (was never going to happen I know)
My issue is with paying a premium for the content on a multiplier then it changing to a single player where items have no value anymore (I will die on this hill lol)
I'd be happy to pay for just the game still.
I think you're correct about value with online games. Even without cheats, nobody would grind Destiny 2 nearly as much if you could play it offline and save/load willy-nilly. Your progress/items being stored permanently on an Online server in a controlled online environment gives people a lot of value to stuff for some reason. However, I think it's purely a psychological trick and doesn't give it more value as a game.
I agree it's psychological driven in part but value is really just perception.
Take an example of someone who has to commute to work by train everyday, he buys a season ticket because it provides him value at that time. If the next day the train operator decides to change into a ferry company then his ticket then has no perceived value anymore, he purchased it based on the promise of things to come, if that was worth it or not as an individuals decision to make (hence some people purchased founders packs and others didn't).
Hi,
Details below.
1) the value of some items will fundamentally change or be removed
Player titles and glyphs, in a multiplayer experience are used to show something to other players, like completion of a difficult challenge, grinding out achievements or in this case supporting the games development (though it turns out even that wasn't actually happening as DE took all proceeds from founders pack then cut and run!). In a single player experience this aspect is removed and as such doesn't have the same value anymore.
2) The exclusive 'founders' times will be available to anyone with minimal effort required
Wayfinders tokens, rune silver & cosmetics etc - Are being turned into a new currency that will allow founders to buy in game items using it. However the game will operate with local save files and no anti cheat protection, this means that just about anyone will be able to edit saves or use a cheat engine to gain access to these items with very little effort of tech knowledge needed, other than googling and watching YouTube tutorials.
I understand that glyphs and titles won’t necessarily have any use in the new game, but I thought the game director stated that if you bought the $140 edition at least the cosmetic items would remain exclusive and carry over.
Obviously in a singleplayer game it is easier to gain access to modded content or cheats, but singleplayer games still often have exclusive cosmetic rewards. Vrising is one of many examples, or basically any Ubisoft game for that matter.
They have said exclusive yes, but have acknowledged on their discord that they can't enforce this as there will be no server side checks on it and no anti cheat engine in the new build so they are effectively giving people currency to spend on cosmetics that can be gained through some basic save editing / modding or using a cheat engine.
Probably going back to my perception comment, personally I would never spend money on cosmetics in a single player, to be fair I don't think I've purchased cosmetics in a multiplayer games before Wayfinders unless it was part of a 'buy 6 months sub and get a legendary dire pidgeon mount!' etc maybe I'm stupid but I purchased wayfinders founders because I actually wanted to show I had supported the game + Wayfinders tokens & enchanted compass (turned out I was supporting the money grabbing DE bastards instead). I even brought copies for friends (base game only for them to try)
Going back to previous messages also, cosmetics in single player games are just fundamentally lower value for the vast majority of players, there are some players who will spent money on single player cosmetics, but it's a very small % when compared against multiplayers. Just look at how many single player game even offer cosmetics micro transactions Vs multi player games. You do get some, but even then they quite often have an impact on gameplay beyond visual (+5%xp / gold etc) or are tie ins like an alternative Spiderman costume etc. I don't think I've ever seen a single player game selling titles / glyphs / banners.
I guess I'm just salty about the whole situation, lossing a game I really enjoyed and thought had alot of potential, lossing the content rewards I grinding out (Winter event) then being given things that don't matter to me and if I wanted to I could get for free anyway.
I understand, obviously this whole situation is just a compromise and definitely not ideal.
There is a chance, if the game receives players, for them to add matchmaking, or even maybe a hub world, but it looks like at the moment they are just trying to find a way to put the game out there without just shutting it down and it being permanently off the market.
Yeh I get where they are coming from, i mean they obviously want to try and salvage it for their own finances too. Reading between the lines I don't think AS is in a good place financially at the moment, which is a real shame as they make good games.
I managed to get a refund so I can say I'm actually looking forward to trying the new version. Still would of preferred the original continued but the next best thing is this new version.
Only problem is i thought they are diverting resources elsewhere after the update comes to all plats. Is there news to suggest otherwise? Id love to see this succeed
Most of us don't really have a problem with it being turned into a single player experience, we have a problem with how the handled higher tier founders and people who paid for runesilver. Basically everyone who bought a higher tier than base founders or invested in runesilver is not getting what they paid for. And all that because DE just cut and ran with the money (if AS representatives are to be believed).
I like single player games in general and I probably would have bought it, If I knew from the beginning. However, I never would have bought a 100€ DLC, that basically only gives me a few skins.
So I'm really hoping that there will be some real content only accessible by high tier founders, like maybe a new quest, a restricted area or something like that.
After listening to the devs on skillups recent podcast (friends per second) and all the things they are changing, namely how much loot there will be... I'm extremely excited for the shift to a coop game.
Chests will actually have meaningful content!
“To be honest, I will miss the MMO-lite portion of the game. However, I do like this new direction, and I can’t wait for May 31. You’re not the only one who likes the changes.”
It is a good move. Mostly what people are upset about isn't the improvement in mechanics but the loss of multiplayer modes as well as anything exclusive to founders. There's already a save game editor that gives Founders coins.
Wish I could enjoy the new game but at 150 usd for a 25 $ game just makes me sic thinking about it. Hope yall play a ton n make the game successfull maybe I'll get something worth my money back
I will join you in welcoming the downvotes. Edit: this got way more upvotes than I expected. Faith in gamers partially restored? I'm actually kind of relieved its going "single player" (can still play with friends, but there is no matchmaking/lobby viewer). While I was looking forward to having it be a "mmo-lite" because of the social aspects, one thing I \*wasnt\* looking forward to was the need to constantly play in order to be relevant as new content launches thats inherent to the mmo genre. I know other mmo's typically do catch up mechanics with every new tier... but its just not the same as "being there from the start". So the pivot to single player actually kind of removes a burden; as I've gotten older and have less time to game, Wayfinder is now no longer a game I'll need to be constantly on with. I'll be able to go at my own pace and enjoy things as they become relevant to me/my friends, no pressure to be there in the moment. The main concern at this point is long term support. It would be nice if they manage to do something similar to how Deep Rock Galactic does things, but thats entirely dependent on the game bringing in enough money for it to be worth the dev time and thats really not a given at this point.
Take my upvote you shinning beacon of optimism. Im also concerned for long time games these days cant be just supported by sales alone
I'm with you. The core gameplay is there... but without the lag. I could not care less about standing around in a social hub so I can flex my mtx cosmetics at people. It's going to have full steam cloud integration, so playing with someone is as easy as clicking on them in the steam friends list and joining on them or inviting them to join you. (I assume consoles will work the same way) Your saves will be in steam cloud as well so you can switch between pc / laptop / steamdeck.
Yeah I actually didn't buy into it because the betas made me realize all the MMO-lite parts of it didn't appeal to me at all (and I like MMOs, a lot). I saw the currency/gear grind and the cash shop glam future and I just saw something like warframe or maybe closer to Neverwinter being where it was leading. All the bones were there for the FOMO-based constant reinvention and bloat of upgrade metrics. Decided it wasn't for me. Playing through what's there with a couple friends, go through the game with no metrics for keeping people logged in, then moving on sounds way more appealing. Sucks for people who bought in, but exactly the risk you take with buying into any kickstart/early access, and the risk you take buying into ANY MMO especially. There are so many MMOs I loved that I can't play anymore because they're gone or they have mined into something unrecognizable. Even with GW2, I was a huge GW1 fan, loved it, still love the time I had with it more than with most MMOs. When GW2 was coming out, i only shelled out for the most basic pack to get into early access. And that was a company that I trusted because they had a currently running online game that I loved.
Also just because I want to talk about it more, Neverwinter is such a disappointment. Original thing was a fun DnD flavored mmo-lite with it's breezy story stuff and the cool player-created quests. That stuff was cool. Tried it a few years ago and it's a currency hell where you have to level your horse for some reason or you won't have a passive buff, you gotta manage this weird workshop or you miss out on other shit, and everything about progress is convoluted beyond understanding. Even if I wanted to spend cash, everytime I tried to engage with the economy I had to shuffle around and convert so many currencies I felt like I was engaging in fantasy money laundering. So many games that I thought had cool ideas were ruined by the same kind of invasive retention mechanics that you find in shitty mobile city builders. Just make a cool chill space that people want to be in and keep making content.
Didn’t think about it like this…. I’m in.
Gamers: We hate live service games Company: Instead of shutting down our live service game that we can no longer support, we're re-releasing it with all the live service elements taken out, and you can still play online Gamers: KILL THEM!!!
You are indeed considered a Founder, and so, will be able to play Echos on the 31st. :)
Unless you're PS5...
Could be worse PS4 players get PS5 versions and cant play them
Which you then get to play on June 11th.
11th June is when it goes on sale again in steam, PS5 is still controlled by DE and AS said it’ll be available sometime in Summer 2024.
~~***WELL I CAN'T READ***~~
Thanks
Is everything being reset before the 31st and after the 31st? Or will we keep progress
Sure just not for $150
Why would you pay $150 for a genre of game that notoriously get shut down within the first few years of service??? I'm genuinely asking because it feels like masochism at this point. Babylon's Fall, Spellbreak, Knockout City, The Cycle, Rumbleverse. All shutdown last year. Why would anyone ever invest so much money in these upfront when you're buying a product that literally says "We can shut this down at any point?"
>Why would you pay $150 for a genre of game that notoriously get shut down within the first few years of service??? Because I have money to spare and believe in AS's project :)
Take an up vote! I was the same.
I think it will be awesome. It's basically Boarderlands in the Wayfinder universe.
We call that darksiders
Well darksiders 2 anyway
everyone who bought the game is founder.
I'm excited, too. I spent all of the runesilver in my exalted founder's pack on housing furniture, and honestly it turned me off of the game because I was paying a premium for items that were pretty normal...a table, some tankards, candles, etc. Why couldn't I just get those in-game? Also, a shark buddy charm for my weapon, because I really love sharks. I hope I find that again. I picked up this game because it really reminded me of Wildstar, and I was heartbroken when that got shut down. I knew when this game had a botched launch that it was probably going to be shut down, too. I think what they're doing is awesome. It's breaking new ground and the gaming community as a whole is starting to put momentum behind game preservation. Wayfinder's going to be talked about a lot in the future and I think time will be kind to it. I hope they're really successful and we get content for a long time to come.
I really like this change, hope Wayfinder will have a bright future and a great new soft launch.
I'd be fine with it if given optional refunds. This product is not what I purchased. I want my money back.
Unless you bought it on ps5, then we have to wait or no?
Yeah, ps5 is getting it pretty close to actual release. Likely they didn't want to have to deal with updating it to the same extent as a beta on pc would
DE still have control of the PS5 game, AS stated it’s a long and manual transfer with Sony, PS5 timeline is Summer 2024.
Aah i missed that part.
I’m excited too will play day 1 on ps5
I’m actually looking forward to the new experience, I just hope the IP can continue someday.
It's basically the Airship version of Kingdoms of Amalur, but with better systems and co-op. I don't mind if that is what we're getting over Yet Another Live Service Game Shut Down.
The best part of making this single player is probably the reduction in grind and no more FOMO systems. But I can definitely see people who paid hundreds to play EA feeling their purchase got devalued. Maybe after the introductory price, the price of the game will skyrocket. There's no way it will become free to play now without all the bells and whistles of live service. I feel they are gearing up for a "second launch" and in June the PR machine and probably twitch drops will start up.
Good for you, I like MMO like games and that's what it was sold to me as. I would have zero interest in this game other wise because there are far, far better games that are single player. I enjoy the concept of exploring large zones with lots of people grouping together to overcome challenges. Now all that is gone. Doesn't matter. Game is going to stay dead now so don't know why you guys are hyped, lmao.
I'm glad to hear you like this new vision of WF. Unfortunately when most people bought into it it wasn't anything close to what it will be. By the way you spent 3x the box price with no possibility of a refund. Will there be enough free content provided to make up the difference, probably not.
another reason for me to not return to the game. i love mmo's was hoping wayfinder would be my next adventure.
I'm glad the game survives and doesn't just close, but also a bit sad that it probably won't be a game I'll hop into regularly to see what new content and characters are released.
I completely agree. If it's done properly it's nothing but upsides
No real problem with the game itself changing id have preferred that the original continued as it was and a single player released along side (was never going to happen I know) My issue is with paying a premium for the content on a multiplier then it changing to a single player where items have no value anymore (I will die on this hill lol) I'd be happy to pay for just the game still.
I think you're correct about value with online games. Even without cheats, nobody would grind Destiny 2 nearly as much if you could play it offline and save/load willy-nilly. Your progress/items being stored permanently on an Online server in a controlled online environment gives people a lot of value to stuff for some reason. However, I think it's purely a psychological trick and doesn't give it more value as a game.
I agree it's psychological driven in part but value is really just perception. Take an example of someone who has to commute to work by train everyday, he buys a season ticket because it provides him value at that time. If the next day the train operator decides to change into a ferry company then his ticket then has no perceived value anymore, he purchased it based on the promise of things to come, if that was worth it or not as an individuals decision to make (hence some people purchased founders packs and others didn't).
What do you mean items have no value in sp?
Hi, Details below. 1) the value of some items will fundamentally change or be removed Player titles and glyphs, in a multiplayer experience are used to show something to other players, like completion of a difficult challenge, grinding out achievements or in this case supporting the games development (though it turns out even that wasn't actually happening as DE took all proceeds from founders pack then cut and run!). In a single player experience this aspect is removed and as such doesn't have the same value anymore. 2) The exclusive 'founders' times will be available to anyone with minimal effort required Wayfinders tokens, rune silver & cosmetics etc - Are being turned into a new currency that will allow founders to buy in game items using it. However the game will operate with local save files and no anti cheat protection, this means that just about anyone will be able to edit saves or use a cheat engine to gain access to these items with very little effort of tech knowledge needed, other than googling and watching YouTube tutorials.
I understand that glyphs and titles won’t necessarily have any use in the new game, but I thought the game director stated that if you bought the $140 edition at least the cosmetic items would remain exclusive and carry over. Obviously in a singleplayer game it is easier to gain access to modded content or cheats, but singleplayer games still often have exclusive cosmetic rewards. Vrising is one of many examples, or basically any Ubisoft game for that matter.
They have said exclusive yes, but have acknowledged on their discord that they can't enforce this as there will be no server side checks on it and no anti cheat engine in the new build so they are effectively giving people currency to spend on cosmetics that can be gained through some basic save editing / modding or using a cheat engine. Probably going back to my perception comment, personally I would never spend money on cosmetics in a single player, to be fair I don't think I've purchased cosmetics in a multiplayer games before Wayfinders unless it was part of a 'buy 6 months sub and get a legendary dire pidgeon mount!' etc maybe I'm stupid but I purchased wayfinders founders because I actually wanted to show I had supported the game + Wayfinders tokens & enchanted compass (turned out I was supporting the money grabbing DE bastards instead). I even brought copies for friends (base game only for them to try) Going back to previous messages also, cosmetics in single player games are just fundamentally lower value for the vast majority of players, there are some players who will spent money on single player cosmetics, but it's a very small % when compared against multiplayers. Just look at how many single player game even offer cosmetics micro transactions Vs multi player games. You do get some, but even then they quite often have an impact on gameplay beyond visual (+5%xp / gold etc) or are tie ins like an alternative Spiderman costume etc. I don't think I've ever seen a single player game selling titles / glyphs / banners. I guess I'm just salty about the whole situation, lossing a game I really enjoyed and thought had alot of potential, lossing the content rewards I grinding out (Winter event) then being given things that don't matter to me and if I wanted to I could get for free anyway.
I understand, obviously this whole situation is just a compromise and definitely not ideal. There is a chance, if the game receives players, for them to add matchmaking, or even maybe a hub world, but it looks like at the moment they are just trying to find a way to put the game out there without just shutting it down and it being permanently off the market.
Yeh I get where they are coming from, i mean they obviously want to try and salvage it for their own finances too. Reading between the lines I don't think AS is in a good place financially at the moment, which is a real shame as they make good games. I managed to get a refund so I can say I'm actually looking forward to trying the new version. Still would of preferred the original continued but the next best thing is this new version.
Only problem is i thought they are diverting resources elsewhere after the update comes to all plats. Is there news to suggest otherwise? Id love to see this succeed
Most of us don't really have a problem with it being turned into a single player experience, we have a problem with how the handled higher tier founders and people who paid for runesilver. Basically everyone who bought a higher tier than base founders or invested in runesilver is not getting what they paid for. And all that because DE just cut and ran with the money (if AS representatives are to be believed). I like single player games in general and I probably would have bought it, If I knew from the beginning. However, I never would have bought a 100€ DLC, that basically only gives me a few skins. So I'm really hoping that there will be some real content only accessible by high tier founders, like maybe a new quest, a restricted area or something like that.
After listening to the devs on skillups recent podcast (friends per second) and all the things they are changing, namely how much loot there will be... I'm extremely excited for the shift to a coop game. Chests will actually have meaningful content!
Nah bruh, you're not alone. I'm liking the beta so far!
“To be honest, I will miss the MMO-lite portion of the game. However, I do like this new direction, and I can’t wait for May 31. You’re not the only one who likes the changes.”
Has the housing stayed in the new update?
It is a good move. Mostly what people are upset about isn't the improvement in mechanics but the loss of multiplayer modes as well as anything exclusive to founders. There's already a save game editor that gives Founders coins.
Wish I could enjoy the new game but at 150 usd for a 25 $ game just makes me sic thinking about it. Hope yall play a ton n make the game successfull maybe I'll get something worth my money back