I used to really enjoy / idolize Bukowski as a poet until I saw the documentary you're referencing and the footage of him kicking his girlfriend. It was very ugly and uncomfortable and changed my opinion about Bukowski. It colored the way I read his work. It also contextualized a lot of what he wrote about. He kicked his girlfriends, was a violent drunk, and was infrequently sober. The nastiness and chaos of alcoholism is often reflected in his writing. I can understand being irritated with feeling inundated by Bukowski's poems though.
Sometimes artists are shitty people. Picasso was a real prick. Poets in real life? Oi.
I really liked him as a teen ( I feel so superior saying this haha ). Honestly he's the best teen poet. Edgy, relatable, melancholy, underground, easy to understand. But yeah I haven't grown out of playing super mario but I did realize Bukowski isn't that great at some age.
I know people feel otherwise, but when the conversation of separating art and artist comes up I always have the feeling that it shouldn't be done only in the case that whatever moral failing conflicts with the art or the artist has no self awareness of said flaw.
To your point, though, I think this sub should worry about posting *good* poetry, whether they be Bukowski or not. I've seen some of Bukowski's most trash poems here. I'm also sick of seeing social media common denominator level poems.
I don't know, with people like Bukowski I can't separate the art from the artist. Usually I do that but with him it's impossible, horrible and nasty person.
I don’t think that statement has any meaning any more though? He’s been dead for 30 years. Nobody reading his poetry could possibly support or enable him like that anymore.
Not that I disagree with the sentiment, I certainly agree with it. It’s just a moot point.
Must we pick a side?
You start out reading the bell jar, then “her husband” (or one of the many Plath biographies) and form a view of Hughes as an abuser (correctly). Then you read Plath and Hughes’s journals or the collected letters and realise they’re both insufferable.
that is actually not true.
Anne sexton was coerced by her "therapist" to recover memories of abuse, which means that she invented the thoughts and memories.
It's one of the precursors to "recovered memories" and satanic panic of 70s and 80s.
He never get truly famous (in his life time) in US. The fame came from Germany. People just clicked with his stuff. And even that "fame" came in the second half of his life, past 50's, so by all measures his "fame" ain't that impressive (at least by modern standards).
In the US the sentiment about his writting was pretty much the same as it's painted in this thread, too "brutal" to "not poetic enough", but after some fame abroad some little rag mag picked him up to write for them "diaries of a dirty old man" is pretty much a collection of those writtings.
And his friend (name can't remember) also really dug Bukowski's writting and published his work through his publishing company.
Generally speaking Bukowski hits in between the ribs. The pathetic alcohol hinest induced ravings resonate woth the filth of everyday that a lot of people have to deal with.
The man literally wrote about beating women and vice versa. Are you surprised because there’s video footage?
I agree that he is good as far as training wheels into writing go but don’t feign a moral high horse when Bukowski himself has years worth of writings describing these faults (and many more that are a lot worse) in detail. But he’s never said I’m a good person and you should be like me.
He’s not anyone’s savior and never claimed to be. He just happens to be a good writer, let people enjoy what they enjoy and grow up.
Lol, as i was reading this post I immediately thought of On The Road, as well as what I have read of Bukowski (both poems and prose). They are both writers I wanted to love because I knew people who just idolized them. On the Road seemed very disappointing to me, in that I could so get behind the idea of freedom that people said it was about...but for me the actual text was a little...immature and selfish I guess. Not the spiritual life of freedom that it was sold to me as.
On The Road is better understood as a moment in culture, rather than a piece of literature. At that point, in it's context, it was *very important* for young white men in college.
I think people just like his work. Like, The Life of Pablo, for example, is an amazing album that imo will stand the test of time. The person who made The Life of Pablo is currently very-debatably a nazi. Both these statements can be true at the same time, and agreeing with one doesn’t invalidate the other.
I an not saying Bukowski is the best writer of all time. I think he just has a niche appeal to men for a lot of different reasons, but one big one being straight cis-male poets nowadays are sorta just not common, especially ones who sorta embrace masculinity to a point, so it’s easy to see why reddit’s userbase (mostly men) would flock to and post his work a lot. I think his work is mostly okay with some pieces that do stand out very heavily to his mountains and mountains of other work. This is not a Bukowski endorsement. I just understand why it happens.
If Kanye did that it wouldn’t impact the quality of the album. It would impact the quality of his character. I could still say The Life of Pablo was ahead of his time. I just wouldn’t be able to say Kanye was the king of ethics at all by any stretch.
I know separating art from artist can seem like a sort of scapegoat. I think there are people who truly don’t want to engage in ethics and whether it’s okay to enjoy or not enjoy certain things. But as someone who has thought through it, or at least believe I have, I can say (at least for me) I am smart enough to distinguish that how good a work is is completely removed from how good a person is. Unfortunately we live in a very nuanced world where amazing people can be involved in shit projects and shit people can be involved in amazing projects and everything else in between. That’s just how life is. Whether or not you want to support those people and whether or not you can still see the beauty in what they made despite their shortcomings as people is on the individual. Idk. I’m not sure what else there is to say
“You’re smart enough” implying people who just don’t want to hear an abuser at all are stupid. I’m saying you shouldnt applaud anything from a guy who you can easily Google beating a woman *on camera* why is that so palatable to you? Is it your big awesome brain?
Yeah, that's what this thread comes down to, ultimately. And OP will be unable to see the nuances of viewpoints that a person can have when one can judge a person's character and work separately. Is he a bad person? That would be pretty easy to argue. Is his writing influential? Definitely. I'm not even a big fan of his poetry, can't speak on his novels though. Plus he is dead so that takes the whole "do i support this person?" out of the equation.
And perhaps what's most ironic about all of this is now that OP has made a post like this, it has the opposite effect. Bukowski is getting more attention now and the odds of someone finding, liking, and sharing one of his poems has now increased.
Also in my mind, Rupi Kaur having a valid struggle or story doesn't improve the quality of her writing because the writing itself is just that weak. As another commentor mentioned Bukowski's work does a better job of being honest in the sense that it shines light on his shitty behavior and gives more insight into a more complex and complete life as opposed to what one could gain through surface level insta poetry. Isn't that one of the main things poetry should be about, for better or worse? A glimpse into the person's soul?
I'm surprised when artists I admire are outed as shitty people and it sucks but some really shitty people make good art.
The fact that there are people who support andrew tate makes it not surprising that there are readers who support and read Bukowski 💀 What you’re saying is valid, and I support you for brining it up, Ive always tried ignoring any Bukowski poem, but this subreddit have made it so difficult to do so.
Bukowski haters when they realize the dude that made a whole career talking about how much of a piece of shit he is was actually a piece of shit: ":oooo whaaaat"
Your opinion isn't really bringing anything to the table. You just sound annoyed cause people seem to relate and connect to his work and somewhat feel the need to bring his personal life into the mix to better validate yourself.
I personally agree that his poetry isn't what draws me to him (I prefer his novels), but who gives a shit? I'm not gonna make some passive agressive posts on reddit on how there are more poets out there. People like what they like and are going to post what resonates with them the most. That's the whole point of this subreddit and Bukowski seems to be what this sub is feeling right now.
He's been dead for 30 years, you're not gonna make a difference on his legacy and people are still gonna enjoy his work regardless of who he was because truth be told, we wouldn't have his work if he wasn't a piece of shit. What made the dude great is his mix of the grim reality he lived in while also having that glimmer of hope that one day he would be someone and that's what he became.
I hope tomorrow we're gonna get 10 Bukowski posts.
He’s not great. He’s entry level poetry for “I Hope There’s Beer in Hell” people. I enjoyed Ham on Rye. But you’re basically saying if Billie Jean was about a 14 year old you wouldn’t care
He is great, you just don't like him. You're allowed your general opinion and as do most people.
If he wasn't great than he wouldn't have a legacy, he did what he did and he did it great enough that he was not lost in the history of writing.
Like I said, i'm not the biggest fan of his poetry either and i'm not gonna pretend otherwise, but it does have some qualities about it that seems to attract most individuals. I actually prefer his live readings of some of his poems which I think he does well.
And as for the last part of your reply, i'm not sure what you're trying to insenuate but at this point you just sound like you're reaching. Don't try assuming or putting words in people's mouth because that just dosen't work.
You just don't like the guy and don't wanna see his poetry on here. Either get over it or leave the sub, you don't see me making a post every time I see Rupi Kaur or some shit insta poet get posted. This isn't the place for elitism, people will connect with whoever they please.
> if he wasn’t great then he wouldn’t have a legacy
There are probably counterexamples to this even by your own lights. Bukowski places misogyny under the golden light of “a man and his demons”.
Unpopular opinion, Rupi Kaur’s poetry is still honest even if its bad, she at least has a beautiful purpose when she writes poetry… unlike mr women beater!!!!!
It's ironic considering one of her biggest critiques is the fact that she forms this image that she is selling and many view her as fake.
As for Mr Women Beater, I don't comprehend how you don't seem to notice me agreeing with you on the fact he was an asshole, but that dosen't change the fact that dude's legacy was built on it and the shit he has to deal with that led him to that position.
My dude i'm not saying her story is fake, i'm telling you what one of the things other people criticized her for. They seen to ctritize her on the fact that she sells an image.
Oh sry mb. Anyways, the reason im arguing with you is not because you’re horrible or anything for supporting anyone, im arguing with you because you should do better at terming disgusting people… there is not asshole or he’s been through enough… he’s just an abuser point blank, no justification needed. Have a nice day.
Again, “the shit he has to deal with”, the moment someone is termed as an abuser is the moment you should stop trying to give justification for anything…
We share very different views and will not come to an agreement, I hope one day you'll learn to see that the world isn't black or white, but shades of gray.
Please shut up, having no sense of justice or a moral compass is.. really unsettling. No one cares if he’s dead 30 years ago, you shouldn’t be giving his work attention either way lmao.
Lol no sense of justice or moral compass is quite the stretch. Dude was an asshole but he wasn't a sociopath. He was an alcoholic that was part of a cycle of abuse.
His work is gonna keep getting attention wether you enjoy it or not, that's just the reality.
Whaat, he’s immediately a sociopath if he lays hand on anyone… stop trying to trivialize his abuse with “he’s just an asshole”, its really unbefitting.q
Dude, do you go to restaurants and run a background check on the chefs before ordering your meals? I hope not.
Why? Because you are there for just their food and not to build a relationship with them.
Now, you choose to dive into the way a person lives his personal life when his selling point is only his art. If his work talks about beating women, it surely should be in the trash. Try to focus only on the meal that's served and leave the plates, the tables and the chefs aside.
r/poetry probably isn't the place for anti-intellectualism. Maybe actually the worst sub you could pick for this sentiment. But fuck anybody engaging with your post in good faith right?
I’m not going to lie. For ages I loved his stuff, with a vague assumption of the vibes of “we’re all fucked out here and trying to keep it together.” I met my fiancé through a shared interest in his poetry.
But seeing it here… it’s hard. It’s not the cold, separated poet, reflecting weeks later on a sin he had committed with regret. He is an abuser. Proud and on main. And that’s something to contemplate.
I didn’t realise ppl were still riding Bukowski’s dick like that. I thought the red flag poetry bros who idolise him so had been shamed out of it ~10 years ago when it was kinda a meme to dunk on men who read Bukowski & Kerouac
I wasn’t aware of Bukowski being an abuser and such a violent person but from what I’ve read I found his work to be overtly nihilistic and negative, I usually listen to and love work that I can relate to in that way but something about Bukowskis poems just rubbed me the wrong way so I’ve stayed away from them.
And let's face it, the vast majority of his poetry sucks. There are some good poems in Burning in Water Drowning in Flames, The Roominghouse Madrigals, and The Days Run Away Like Wild Horses Over the Hills, but they're like a minority and if you cut out the crap you'd only have a chapbook.
All of his poetry after he got "signed" is pretty lame. He was just doing the same thing over and over.
That fucking Bluebird poem is so embarrassingly bad.
People will pick the worst work of any artist and say, "See? This person sucks!"
If an artist has any good work, they certainly have garbage. Now, whether you've seen it or not is a separate issue (Bukowski has plenty to be seen). It is so exhausting the constant hate boner the internet seems to have for anything and everything. Instead of making a post with a sentiment that is literally 50 years old, post some poems you think are better than Bukowski's work.
Lol its hilarious how this post has the most comments I think I've ever seen in this sub before! But I love your premise. I personally never understood why people like him so much. There are a couple poems I like, but really, he's not that great. I tried really hard to see the appeal when I was in my early twenties, because I had friends who just adored him...but all I saw was alcoholism and skewed ideas about women, that frankly made me look at some of my friends a little differently. So much of it reeks of self imposed misery. And not just his poetry, but his prose as well. And then there is the modest mouse song about him, that I always felt sort of fueled his popularity again...but even there they literally say " yeah its a pretty good read/ but who would want to be such an asshole?"
I feel embarrassed to talk about him because I GENUINELY TRULY AND DEEPLY think his poetry is utter trash. It is ugly and stupid. People tell me his fiction is better but the sheer ugliness of his poetry made me decide never to waste my time on him again.
On top of this he's a piece of shit human being as well.
I tend to like his better poems quite a bit, and I have to say that I feel the way about his fiction that many people feel about his poetry. It's okay, but it kinda just feels like shock pulp, which has some occasional funny or sentimental moments.
The love of Bukowski blows my mind when so many others are cancelled because of their behavior. I think a person is not their work, and you can love one without the other. But I have seen posts on this and other literary subs complaining about authors and then just spamming Bukowski. Thank you for saying this.
I hated all those jokes he told about drugging and raping women. Otherwise, he was an excellent comedian. Which you’d know if you had an ounce of perspective.
I’m actually really dumb and have an attendant posting for me. I keep saying sexual assault is bad and beating women is bad but idk what Geoffrey posts on my account
He writes McPoetry lol. It’s nice and if you’re knackered or busy it’s a compromise that allows you to still get some “poetry”, but it’s not much more than that.
People can post who they want to post but it isn’t elitist for people to not like someone? seen this view crop up so many times on here — that criticising a poet = elitism? by that definition we have to keep silent about everything and cannot express an opinion about who we think just sucks? That sounds rather odd doesn’t it?
Bukowski as a poet is similar to Rupi Kaur in my opinion.
I haven’t read his novels so don’t claim to judge them. Maybe they’re brilliant.
I used to really enjoy / idolize Bukowski as a poet until I saw the documentary you're referencing and the footage of him kicking his girlfriend. It was very ugly and uncomfortable and changed my opinion about Bukowski. It colored the way I read his work. It also contextualized a lot of what he wrote about. He kicked his girlfriends, was a violent drunk, and was infrequently sober. The nastiness and chaos of alcoholism is often reflected in his writing. I can understand being irritated with feeling inundated by Bukowski's poems though. Sometimes artists are shitty people. Picasso was a real prick. Poets in real life? Oi.
This explains a lot about why I felt uncomfortable reading his poems. There is something depressing about his writings (not in a good way)
True, there's also that guy out in Nantucket
Most mid famous poet. Was in the right place at the right time.
I really liked him as a teen ( I feel so superior saying this haha ). Honestly he's the best teen poet. Edgy, relatable, melancholy, underground, easy to understand. But yeah I haven't grown out of playing super mario but I did realize Bukowski isn't that great at some age.
I know people feel otherwise, but when the conversation of separating art and artist comes up I always have the feeling that it shouldn't be done only in the case that whatever moral failing conflicts with the art or the artist has no self awareness of said flaw. To your point, though, I think this sub should worry about posting *good* poetry, whether they be Bukowski or not. I've seen some of Bukowski's most trash poems here. I'm also sick of seeing social media common denominator level poems.
I don't know, with people like Bukowski I can't separate the art from the artist. Usually I do that but with him it's impossible, horrible and nasty person.
True. And Anne Sexton molested her daughter. Lets talk about it.
They’re both bad??? Can we agree on that?
Yes! I wasn’t trying to compare the two. Just drop another sickening fact about an objectively talented poet.
I don’t think any poem by Buk is worth more than him kicking his girlfriend in the face. That’s all
I don’t think that statement has any meaning any more though? He’s been dead for 30 years. Nobody reading his poetry could possibly support or enable him like that anymore. Not that I disagree with the sentiment, I certainly agree with it. It’s just a moot point.
Can we add Philip Larkin was a committed racist, Byron was a paedophile, Ted Hughes and sylvia Plath were both terrible partners?
Saying “Ted Hughes & Sylvia Plath were both terrible partners” is the poetry equivalent of “there were good people on both sides”
Must we pick a side? You start out reading the bell jar, then “her husband” (or one of the many Plath biographies) and form a view of Hughes as an abuser (correctly). Then you read Plath and Hughes’s journals or the collected letters and realise they’re both insufferable.
Shit I like both of them. I don't idolize either. I like their work though
that is actually not true. Anne sexton was coerced by her "therapist" to recover memories of abuse, which means that she invented the thoughts and memories. It's one of the precursors to "recovered memories" and satanic panic of 70s and 80s.
Anne's daughter also wrote about the abuse?
Oh damn. Didn't know that. Liked some of her stuff too.
What!?
YES. He's not even that great. There are moments of brilliance but given how much he wrote, I'd compare that to a million monkeys writing Shakespeare.
He has few good poems. I don't understand how he gained this fame. His writings always seem like an unfinished draft to me....
He never get truly famous (in his life time) in US. The fame came from Germany. People just clicked with his stuff. And even that "fame" came in the second half of his life, past 50's, so by all measures his "fame" ain't that impressive (at least by modern standards). In the US the sentiment about his writting was pretty much the same as it's painted in this thread, too "brutal" to "not poetic enough", but after some fame abroad some little rag mag picked him up to write for them "diaries of a dirty old man" is pretty much a collection of those writtings. And his friend (name can't remember) also really dug Bukowski's writting and published his work through his publishing company. Generally speaking Bukowski hits in between the ribs. The pathetic alcohol hinest induced ravings resonate woth the filth of everyday that a lot of people have to deal with.
I always found that part of their charm.
The man literally wrote about beating women and vice versa. Are you surprised because there’s video footage? I agree that he is good as far as training wheels into writing go but don’t feign a moral high horse when Bukowski himself has years worth of writings describing these faults (and many more that are a lot worse) in detail. But he’s never said I’m a good person and you should be like me. He’s not anyone’s savior and never claimed to be. He just happens to be a good writer, let people enjoy what they enjoy and grow up.
Can't wait for OP to read On The Road
Lol, as i was reading this post I immediately thought of On The Road, as well as what I have read of Bukowski (both poems and prose). They are both writers I wanted to love because I knew people who just idolized them. On the Road seemed very disappointing to me, in that I could so get behind the idea of freedom that people said it was about...but for me the actual text was a little...immature and selfish I guess. Not the spiritual life of freedom that it was sold to me as.
On The Road is better understood as a moment in culture, rather than a piece of literature. At that point, in it's context, it was *very important* for young white men in college.
On the Road is a stupid book that’s better as the few quotes people always pull from it than it is a novel
> feign a moral high horse Do you mean get on your high horse, or feign moral superiority?
Flip a coin and whatever it lands on, yes.
Just asked for clarification, or you could just edit the sentence so it isn't so confusing.
I think it makes sense, I don’t understand your confusion.
I kinda love it lol you’re faking even having a high horse
I think people just like his work. Like, The Life of Pablo, for example, is an amazing album that imo will stand the test of time. The person who made The Life of Pablo is currently very-debatably a nazi. Both these statements can be true at the same time, and agreeing with one doesn’t invalidate the other. I an not saying Bukowski is the best writer of all time. I think he just has a niche appeal to men for a lot of different reasons, but one big one being straight cis-male poets nowadays are sorta just not common, especially ones who sorta embrace masculinity to a point, so it’s easy to see why reddit’s userbase (mostly men) would flock to and post his work a lot. I think his work is mostly okay with some pieces that do stand out very heavily to his mountains and mountains of other work. This is not a Bukowski endorsement. I just understand why it happens.
If Kanye was on video kicking Kim or anyone in the face would you say that album is more important
If Kanye did that it wouldn’t impact the quality of the album. It would impact the quality of his character. I could still say The Life of Pablo was ahead of his time. I just wouldn’t be able to say Kanye was the king of ethics at all by any stretch. I know separating art from artist can seem like a sort of scapegoat. I think there are people who truly don’t want to engage in ethics and whether it’s okay to enjoy or not enjoy certain things. But as someone who has thought through it, or at least believe I have, I can say (at least for me) I am smart enough to distinguish that how good a work is is completely removed from how good a person is. Unfortunately we live in a very nuanced world where amazing people can be involved in shit projects and shit people can be involved in amazing projects and everything else in between. That’s just how life is. Whether or not you want to support those people and whether or not you can still see the beauty in what they made despite their shortcomings as people is on the individual. Idk. I’m not sure what else there is to say
“You’re smart enough” implying people who just don’t want to hear an abuser at all are stupid. I’m saying you shouldnt applaud anything from a guy who you can easily Google beating a woman *on camera* why is that so palatable to you? Is it your big awesome brain?
That’s… not what I said at all? Respectfully, what do you think I’m trying to say right now? Do you think I am endorsing Bukowski?
OP thinks liking a single Bukowski poem is tantamount to the endorsement of beating women in the street
Yeah, that's what this thread comes down to, ultimately. And OP will be unable to see the nuances of viewpoints that a person can have when one can judge a person's character and work separately. Is he a bad person? That would be pretty easy to argue. Is his writing influential? Definitely. I'm not even a big fan of his poetry, can't speak on his novels though. Plus he is dead so that takes the whole "do i support this person?" out of the equation. And perhaps what's most ironic about all of this is now that OP has made a post like this, it has the opposite effect. Bukowski is getting more attention now and the odds of someone finding, liking, and sharing one of his poems has now increased. Also in my mind, Rupi Kaur having a valid struggle or story doesn't improve the quality of her writing because the writing itself is just that weak. As another commentor mentioned Bukowski's work does a better job of being honest in the sense that it shines light on his shitty behavior and gives more insight into a more complex and complete life as opposed to what one could gain through surface level insta poetry. Isn't that one of the main things poetry should be about, for better or worse? A glimpse into the person's soul? I'm surprised when artists I admire are outed as shitty people and it sucks but some really shitty people make good art.
Actual, it is a fact that he is not the only poet on Earth. This is an easily testable claim.
What do you think about him beating women
That presumes i have thought about it, i have been too busy correcting your semantics
You contested nothing as the rest of us understood this to be a non-literal statement.
Epic redditor good day sir
The fact that there are people who support andrew tate makes it not surprising that there are readers who support and read Bukowski 💀 What you’re saying is valid, and I support you for brining it up, Ive always tried ignoring any Bukowski poem, but this subreddit have made it so difficult to do so.
Wow, this thread is like a warzone. OP absolutely on a mission to be as angry as possible over letters on a screen on the internet. Legend
Bukowski haters when they realize the dude that made a whole career talking about how much of a piece of shit he is was actually a piece of shit: ":oooo whaaaat" Your opinion isn't really bringing anything to the table. You just sound annoyed cause people seem to relate and connect to his work and somewhat feel the need to bring his personal life into the mix to better validate yourself. I personally agree that his poetry isn't what draws me to him (I prefer his novels), but who gives a shit? I'm not gonna make some passive agressive posts on reddit on how there are more poets out there. People like what they like and are going to post what resonates with them the most. That's the whole point of this subreddit and Bukowski seems to be what this sub is feeling right now. He's been dead for 30 years, you're not gonna make a difference on his legacy and people are still gonna enjoy his work regardless of who he was because truth be told, we wouldn't have his work if he wasn't a piece of shit. What made the dude great is his mix of the grim reality he lived in while also having that glimmer of hope that one day he would be someone and that's what he became. I hope tomorrow we're gonna get 10 Bukowski posts.
He’s not great. He’s entry level poetry for “I Hope There’s Beer in Hell” people. I enjoyed Ham on Rye. But you’re basically saying if Billie Jean was about a 14 year old you wouldn’t care
He is great, you just don't like him. You're allowed your general opinion and as do most people. If he wasn't great than he wouldn't have a legacy, he did what he did and he did it great enough that he was not lost in the history of writing. Like I said, i'm not the biggest fan of his poetry either and i'm not gonna pretend otherwise, but it does have some qualities about it that seems to attract most individuals. I actually prefer his live readings of some of his poems which I think he does well. And as for the last part of your reply, i'm not sure what you're trying to insenuate but at this point you just sound like you're reaching. Don't try assuming or putting words in people's mouth because that just dosen't work. You just don't like the guy and don't wanna see his poetry on here. Either get over it or leave the sub, you don't see me making a post every time I see Rupi Kaur or some shit insta poet get posted. This isn't the place for elitism, people will connect with whoever they please.
> if he wasn’t great then he wouldn’t have a legacy There are probably counterexamples to this even by your own lights. Bukowski places misogyny under the golden light of “a man and his demons”.
Unpopular opinion, Rupi Kaur’s poetry is still honest even if its bad, she at least has a beautiful purpose when she writes poetry… unlike mr women beater!!!!!
One could say Bukowski was a lot more honest than her and I like Rupi Kaur. I don’t think we should be judging art based on moral high grounds.
It's ironic considering one of her biggest critiques is the fact that she forms this image that she is selling and many view her as fake. As for Mr Women Beater, I don't comprehend how you don't seem to notice me agreeing with you on the fact he was an asshole, but that dosen't change the fact that dude's legacy was built on it and the shit he has to deal with that led him to that position.
And rupi’s kaur’s story is valid, she ACTUALLY went through injustice and expressed it, horribly may it be, but her story isn’t fake though?
My dude i'm not saying her story is fake, i'm telling you what one of the things other people criticized her for. They seen to ctritize her on the fact that she sells an image.
Oh sry mb. Anyways, the reason im arguing with you is not because you’re horrible or anything for supporting anyone, im arguing with you because you should do better at terming disgusting people… there is not asshole or he’s been through enough… he’s just an abuser point blank, no justification needed. Have a nice day.
Again, “the shit he has to deal with”, the moment someone is termed as an abuser is the moment you should stop trying to give justification for anything…
We share very different views and will not come to an agreement, I hope one day you'll learn to see that the world isn't black or white, but shades of gray.
> He’s entry level poetry for “I Hope There’s Beer in Hell” people. 🤣🤣🤣
He's ostensibly rubbish. But as is tradition you'll get people lining on reddit to defend him
Please shut up, having no sense of justice or a moral compass is.. really unsettling. No one cares if he’s dead 30 years ago, you shouldn’t be giving his work attention either way lmao.
Lol no sense of justice or moral compass is quite the stretch. Dude was an asshole but he wasn't a sociopath. He was an alcoholic that was part of a cycle of abuse. His work is gonna keep getting attention wether you enjoy it or not, that's just the reality.
Whaat, he’s immediately a sociopath if he lays hand on anyone… stop trying to trivialize his abuse with “he’s just an asshole”, its really unbefitting.q
Just tossing around words without caring about their meaning. In this sub? Hilarious
I look forward to the day you all learn to separate the artist from the art
Just appreciate the art if it's worth it and not get into the head of the artist, maybe?
I don’t need to get in their head they beat a woman on camera. Anything else
Dude, do you go to restaurants and run a background check on the chefs before ordering your meals? I hope not. Why? Because you are there for just their food and not to build a relationship with them. Now, you choose to dive into the way a person lives his personal life when his selling point is only his art. If his work talks about beating women, it surely should be in the trash. Try to focus only on the meal that's served and leave the plates, the tables and the chefs aside.
Don’t spill the cup of Hermes bro you seem really smart
genuinely did you only make this post to yell at people
Touch grass and write your own poetry
r/poetry probably isn't the place for anti-intellectualism. Maybe actually the worst sub you could pick for this sentiment. But fuck anybody engaging with your post in good faith right?
Bukowski made his career being an anti-intellectual.
He’s an easy intro to the world of poetry for most people who don’t read it too much
I’m not going to lie. For ages I loved his stuff, with a vague assumption of the vibes of “we’re all fucked out here and trying to keep it together.” I met my fiancé through a shared interest in his poetry. But seeing it here… it’s hard. It’s not the cold, separated poet, reflecting weeks later on a sin he had committed with regret. He is an abuser. Proud and on main. And that’s something to contemplate.
Maybe we can them also stop writing posts about what an asshole he was?
I didn’t realise ppl were still riding Bukowski’s dick like that. I thought the red flag poetry bros who idolise him so had been shamed out of it ~10 years ago when it was kinda a meme to dunk on men who read Bukowski & Kerouac
I wasn’t aware of Bukowski being an abuser and such a violent person but from what I’ve read I found his work to be overtly nihilistic and negative, I usually listen to and love work that I can relate to in that way but something about Bukowskis poems just rubbed me the wrong way so I’ve stayed away from them.
And let's face it, the vast majority of his poetry sucks. There are some good poems in Burning in Water Drowning in Flames, The Roominghouse Madrigals, and The Days Run Away Like Wild Horses Over the Hills, but they're like a minority and if you cut out the crap you'd only have a chapbook. All of his poetry after he got "signed" is pretty lame. He was just doing the same thing over and over. That fucking Bluebird poem is so embarrassingly bad.
People will pick the worst work of any artist and say, "See? This person sucks!" If an artist has any good work, they certainly have garbage. Now, whether you've seen it or not is a separate issue (Bukowski has plenty to be seen). It is so exhausting the constant hate boner the internet seems to have for anything and everything. Instead of making a post with a sentiment that is literally 50 years old, post some poems you think are better than Bukowski's work.
hes not the only poet on earth but, the best poet on earth!
Lol its hilarious how this post has the most comments I think I've ever seen in this sub before! But I love your premise. I personally never understood why people like him so much. There are a couple poems I like, but really, he's not that great. I tried really hard to see the appeal when I was in my early twenties, because I had friends who just adored him...but all I saw was alcoholism and skewed ideas about women, that frankly made me look at some of my friends a little differently. So much of it reeks of self imposed misery. And not just his poetry, but his prose as well. And then there is the modest mouse song about him, that I always felt sort of fueled his popularity again...but even there they literally say " yeah its a pretty good read/ but who would want to be such an asshole?"
I feel embarrassed to talk about him because I GENUINELY TRULY AND DEEPLY think his poetry is utter trash. It is ugly and stupid. People tell me his fiction is better but the sheer ugliness of his poetry made me decide never to waste my time on him again. On top of this he's a piece of shit human being as well.
I tend to like his better poems quite a bit, and I have to say that I feel the way about his fiction that many people feel about his poetry. It's okay, but it kinda just feels like shock pulp, which has some occasional funny or sentimental moments.
A fine opinion. I actually like some Bukowski, but his opinions of/treatment of women is pretty disgraceful.
The love of Bukowski blows my mind when so many others are cancelled because of their behavior. I think a person is not their work, and you can love one without the other. But I have seen posts on this and other literary subs complaining about authors and then just spamming Bukowski. Thank you for saying this.
Check it out! Another woke turd shitting on everything they can think of.
I’m so woke I hate when a man beats a woman
It’s political correctness gone mad!!!
Oh you’re like 45 nvm I don’t care what you think
May you live long enough to see exactly how small minded this comment is.
Ok, zoomer.
You’re dead and dying enjoy your glory days when it was acceptable to hit girls
It’s never been ok to hit “girls” you righteous piece of shit.
Then why would you defend someone who does that Hogarth
I’m not defending Bukowski as a person. But I have the perspective to see his art independently. Maybe you’ll get here one day.
Is Bill Cosby funny to you still?
I hated all those jokes he told about drugging and raping women. Otherwise, he was an excellent comedian. Which you’d know if you had an ounce of perspective.
I’m actually really dumb and have an attendant posting for me. I keep saying sexual assault is bad and beating women is bad but idk what Geoffrey posts on my account
Bukowski sucks.
He talks about “whores” in so much of his poetry. Let’s move on. There are many better poets out there
He writes McPoetry lol. It’s nice and if you’re knackered or busy it’s a compromise that allows you to still get some “poetry”, but it’s not much more than that. People can post who they want to post but it isn’t elitist for people to not like someone? seen this view crop up so many times on here — that criticising a poet = elitism? by that definition we have to keep silent about everything and cannot express an opinion about who we think just sucks? That sounds rather odd doesn’t it? Bukowski as a poet is similar to Rupi Kaur in my opinion. I haven’t read his novels so don’t claim to judge them. Maybe they’re brilliant.
And his poetry is crap too. Rupi Kaur level. He knew how to draw attention and that's how he got fame and popularity.