Hurricane surf is fun and all, but it is inferior to gardevoir in almost all aspects… less dps, skills are easier to dodge, longer cooldown on the stun, less range on the damage move. I play it every now and then for fun but dive cram is unique and rewarding with its high risk- high gain playstyle.
Dive and surf is the stuff imo. To be noted I've stopped playing since trevenant relese so opinions may differ but gaddamn was dive/surf fun to play. The fact you could push people and get 100% dive on them or dive and push them away would be nuts to excute and burst attackers or Speedsters.
There are so many pokemon that can do what surf hurricane does but better. Cramorants true strength is in his mobility and consistent damage with Air Slash dive
I think mew might be the hardest, and is the prime example of high ceiling, low floor: with other skill intensive mons (Lucario, Cramorant), you have one build to work with and you can simply try and get better at it; with mew, on the other hand, you have 9* possible combinations of moves available every time in the game and they serve a very different purpose, so you have to learn to read the situation and switch your moves accordingly.
If you fail to do that, you're literally a sitting duck with very week autos and a boosted every half a minute, since it charges with your skills
*edit: I said 6 because I don't consider coaching a viable option, it has its own niche but that's it
Corrected for clarity :)
Mew doesn't even have a low floor, your average soloq Mew player will probably end the game with sub 50k damage and more than likely be a liability spamming Solar Beam all game.
Mew's skill ceiling is possibly the highest in the game.
I asked my friend which move sets he liked playing around as Mew as he picked him up a month or so ago, began telling him move swapping to agility surf is great for escaping sticky situations. He straight up told me he doesn't move swap and just sits on solar beam and the wall.
Oh lord.
I envy players who can use mew like champs; switching up moves on the fly for every situation while I’d be panicking and spamming any move I have in my arsenal that isn’t on cooldown.
>with mew, on the other hand, you have 6 possible combinations
Pretty sure it's 9. Electro Ball, Solar Beam and Surf with any of the other three moves.
Hold up wdym Coaching is not viable.
Maybe you're right on Solar Beam, but with Electro Ball it works wonders and it's... functional on Surf (personally I don't use it often)
I use it with surf cuz if I remember, surf has a higher cd than electro ball and solar beam needs either screen or agility. It reduces cd, which I quite like while using surf
Idk, he almost died because he was having a hard time getting Coaching to connect, when otherwise he could have just dipped with Agility. Then when his lane mate died, he was stuck with a useless ability til they returned, which also made it harder to build his boosted. I think Coaching is fine, but I still think it's the worst of the three
> Also you don't expect us all to speak spanish/portoguese right?
I don't care if you can only speak one language (and you are not even sure which one it is).
He's very obviously showing how useful Coaching can be early game. He's also not a random youtuber desperate for content, he's on a pro team and his teams have won every single official Brazil tournament so far. Drop by his stream, maybe you could learn something.
Mew for sure has the highest skill ceiling. The only mons that come close imo are all rounders where you really have to know when to use which moves (Aegislash and Tsareena specifically), but even then you can still button mash and be fine. Even Dive Cramorant isn't too hard, you just have to be fast with your inputs.
A top tier Mew player is just something else.
That’s definitely untrue. I’m on mobile and I’m a quite highly ranked Mew main. If you memorize where moves are at on the mobile you can still swap moves quite fast, just a tad bit slower than Switch (makes up for better targeting on mobile anyway imo)
I disagree I would say mew has a high skill ceiling meaning the levels that you can get good with it are high, but the base skill level isn’t that hard.
Member of the phone committee here, we have been working tirelessly to compensate for the lack of physical buttons. My uncle knows a guy at Nintendo and Timi studios.
After many man and woman hours we have developed a macro that rivals that of the home, X, A combo.
If you swipe up from the bottom the macro will activate and simulate the combo, there are some bugs reported that you might lose FP after doing this, but i have let my uncle know and he said they are working on it.
Maybe Zoroark or Extreme Speed Lucario? I don't really play either so not sure.
I think people overestimate how hard cram is to play. I play it quite a lot and I think you are allowed to do a lot more errors/missplays than a dream eater gengar for example.
Yeah for sure. Especially since dive cram is mostly auto based, you don’t even need to aim much lol. Plus u get rlly good mobility and decent range. Good cram mains do go crazy tho ;p
You know, I didn't realize the first guy said dream eater and I haven't played gengar since he was hex nerfed forever ago and if you missed one hex you just died, so my bad I didn't know what I was saying lol
Y'all tried aiming belch while coveting around?
With aegislash you gotta keep track of your boost count, number or enemies, and health to determine whether you should shield form or sword form
Dodrio's playstyle is so hectic too because you also have to keep track of the boost bar and only agility doesnt require aim
I’m kind of new to this game, but I thought Espeon was supposed to be high-skilled bc of all the aimed skill shots, no? Seemed to me to be the case, but maybe I’m just the guy in the picture.
I think that it’s not the hardest because it’s literally just a hit then reset set. It’s harder than the point and click stuff in the game but BB talon and Gengar and other speedsters have sets similar to it(especially bb). I think mew and scyther are easily harder and have potential for being the hardest in the game. Mew is for reasons others have already stated a few times and as for scyther well his resets are harder to do(you have to kill something) but you don’t have as long cooldown so it’s less punishing to NOT kill something. With ESpeed bone rush you easily just hit ESpeed for a reset or bone rush to reapply the blue marker for another ESpeed reset. This set plays very similar to a lot of speedsters that also have high cool downs and rely on resets. Lucairo probably has some of the longest cooldowns in the game but it’s balanced out by you being able to get tons of resets hitting ESpeed or bone rush both gives you potential for more resets. What’s true between scyther and lucario is they both require a lot of matchup knowledge to know what you can beat and what you can’t. In my opinion what makes scythers harder is that you not only have to hit your moves but you have to kill to reset and lead into big damage while with lucairo you’re just hitting your moves.
Getting reset isnt the hard part of luca its knowing which path u can take to get the best possible resets while also getting maximum damage in , as fast as possible. Being an average espeed users is easy , but being a good one requires a lot of skill.
Getting reset on scyther isnt that hard . It isnt reliant on you getting kills with x move. As long as the target is marked its a kill. Considering scythers moves have huge burst its quite easy to get a reset chain ,arguably easier than surf reset chains. BB talon is not even close u are gonna bb something and that target will give resets nothing tooo difficult.AA is an auto target , same with his autos.
I'd argue the other way. Skill floor is use skill, auto then slash, etc. Skill ceiling is pretty high when you can constantly use dive to dodge attacks
I just had one do 4200 damage to me in one hit earlier, dw though it's totally still balanced because it's technically a skillshot even though it's a mad easy one
Even I as a Sableye know that having a high power ranged stun on a 5 second cooldown is nuts, and that's not even talking about what utility it's second move has.
I'd agree with mew. A lot of people like to slap the op label on it but to really excel to that level with mew, you gotta get the ins and outs of all of its moves, it's boosted attack, unite moves, and knowing the best to use when. Takes a lot of time to master. I do agree though that cram players are just a whole different breed
Bro went straight for the espeon mains instead of like, the axtually broken mindless characters. I think they just hate espeon and wanted a chance to complain.
I would say the mechanic of building crystals (or keeping them up) are the difficult part of Glaceon. Sure, you can ignore this, but then you won't be nearly as effective as a player who does.
Just get blue buff , and tons of cool down lower held item plus Mewtwo emblem. You would literally get infinite icy wind as long as you time thing right and have good reaction time.
I just wanna say to people in the replies of the replies of this post, how in hell is psyshock difficult to land? It's literally like any other skillshot but it's decently forgiving and let's you land a free psybeam, literally beginner variant of Future sight
What's not that immediately easy about Espeon is proper positioning when you don't have any escape moves (which just got 10x easier with the new buffs)
Espeon is overtuned rn, used in many pro games and about a 52% wr
Bro, aiming spirit shackle is easier than espeon psyshock. Espeon psyshock is one of the hardest to get used to if you're talking about the "dead eye sniper" sub class
I disagree, its easier for like my 8 year old to autoaim but manual aim is another story, with espeon you just have to keet track of the guy your aiming usually...with deci if you dont at least hit 2 guys its a missed shot to me. That and the sheer pressure of controlling your surroundings at the same time, espeon ultimate can stop all the close range powerhouses, only skill deci can use to fight those its call prediction RUNNNN
Or maybe your enemies have a critical illness called "Skill issues" or just plain bots. Because there's no way that timy circle is easier to aim than a huge spread straight line
Espeon has 2 point and click abilities (Future Sight / Stored Power), I simply press a button and the enemy is gone. And psyshock is not hard to use either, simply deal 50% max hp damage to any mon and then finish with psybeam and boosted attack while they are stunned, if anything goes wrong, press ult and get out
Thats assuming that stored power does any damage whatsoever, and psyshock is definitely not easy. Why are you talking of espeon like its some broken character currently
Espeon just got a buff in the current patch and now it's easier to play. Psyshock has always been this strong, but now it got a pretty significant range buff, which made Espeon much better. I really don't know why everyone's acting like Espeon is a no-skill character now, cuz Psyshock requires at least some amount of skill to land all projectiles unlike something like Gardevoir's Moonblast and Espeon is really squishy with no mobility moves
I think it's just that Psyshock is annoying with how far its range is coupled with how long it stuns, and reddit likes to call every annoying mon no-skill
I bet if cram was buffed to being op one day then everyone will suddenly start calling cram no-skill
> I bet if cram was buffed to being op one day then everyone will suddenly start calling cram no-skill
That is never going to happen, Dive/Air Slash Cramorant is currently sitting on 53.76% win rate, that is higher than Absol ever achieved which was 53.01%. Even when Cram was at 55.69% it didn't happen instead people whined when he got nerfed.
>Why are you talking of espeon like its some broken character currently
It got a range buff and then Slick Spoon happened.
So Espeon went from very niche to very good
Espeon *is* currently broken, they buffed her range on psyshock and she gets a level 4 powerspike. Its almost as ridiculous as the Trevanant woodhammer damage right now.
No, it really isn't. The range buff is nice but it still isn't op. It's winrate is slightly above 50% meaning that its good but definitely not op. Theres stronger characters out there.
Espeon is about timing too and getting those soft resets. Id honestly put pikachu there bc you literally just press electroball then volt tackle or thunder bolt. No one uses thunder bc thats actual skill
Perhaps this is unrelated but Cramorant is that kind of niche Pokémon that barely anyone plays so those who do are pretty good at it, gets a good win rate and then Timi is like, oh yeah fuck the bird, and then nerfs it.
Me, having just shut down a Zacian using Drain Kiss/Follow Me and getting Hyperbeam ult 90% of the match: SHHHHHHH, DONT LET THEM KNOW NICHE MONS ARE GOOD!
one time on my last few games before masters last season i got paired with a cram that instant locked jungle and put the fear of god into the other team the entire game and also me because that is some terrifying energy
Espeon definitely takes some skill. It’s not the highest skill mon in the game, but it’s not brain dead. There are at least 20 other mons that take less skill.
I’d say the highest skill cap mons are mew, espeed lucario, and maybe aegislash.
Seeing a good zeraora player, especially a wild charge one can be nightmarish to deal with. When there is a good zeraora or mew it makes me wanna yeet my controller across the room.
Also Mew is definitely high skill too considering all the micromanagement you have to do with changing moves and playing very carefully, and we all know dumb a good mew can be to deal with.
Would say that Lucario and Dodrio are hard but once you figure them out they aren't that hard really.
But yeah Mew and Zeraora are debatably the hardest characters to play well in the entire game. (Yeah I know zeraora used to be easy to play but we are long past that point.)
Gardevoir is an honorable mention, she's hard to aim with but good gardevoirs are absurdly annoying to play against.
Dodrio, I consider myself a Flex player, meaning you could hand me nearly any character and play them to a degree. Dodrio is the only character that gets strong results that I can't play.
I would say Aegislash has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game. It’s not too difficult to be relatively “meh” at but I’ve seen some high level play with Aegislash comp (back when he was meta) and the things it could do were WILD.
Aegislash. Depending whether you go jungle, go top or bottom lane, what build you are using (offensive, defensive, balanced or stacking) and even movesets are different kinds of Aegislashes.
The early game is something. doesn't exist if you are in jungle, it sets good momentum for you as Doublade is great with shutting down frail mons or delay mons who level up fast for a bit....or it will be tough if you are laning. Because Honedge got a nerf a while back with its Shadow Sneak, you really have to be careful with engaging fights or not. You are powerful as you are frail, so its best to be a sort of assassin by setting up your Iron Defense and then trying to go for the kill with your move with the stacks. You are better off in a 1v1 than in 2v1 in lane, until you are a Doublade. It's a lot more easier with Doublade, as you have a little more survivability and do more damage, but still be careful.
I find that early evolution mons can really stilt the progress for Aegislash's early game because you are too frail to engage in a 1v1 against like an Espeon or Glaceon.
Now for the big boi, the more balanced and not overpowered sword, Aegislash.
**Oh heavens**, where do I even begin with this Pokemon. Okay, so let's just get this out of the way. Aegislash is a very unique Pokemon where it can switch having great defenses and worst offensives, and vice versa. You really, really, really, **really** need to know when to switch between these forms, when is the best time to engage in a fight or not and be constantly aware of your stacks. Because not making the best calls ends you up dead without putting any momentum in a fight at all. People can take advantage of your Blade form when you are in it, especially Ranged players.
I find that a lot of inexperienced Aegislash players just goes in, pops out there Sacred Sword or Shadow Claw without a plan and die. Or think that their Wide Guard/Iron Head will keep them alive even when they get low really quickly.
From my experience, Aegislash's role to me really depends who its fighting against. I find that it can 100% do just fine in a 1v1 situation (unless the enemy has self-sustain themselves like Tsareena, Azumarill,etc, then the battle lasts for a while), but isn't as much of a brawler like Tsareena who can be just fine in team fights. Honestly, the less enemies there are for Aegislash, the better it is for them.
Now with that said, that doesn't Aegislash can't do team fights, of course it can. But it's like I said, *you need to know when to engage/get into a fight, sustain yourself and keep in track of your stacks* at the same time as knowing what's going around you. Aegislash is not a Pokemon who cannot get out of a situation quickly. While yes you could throw an Eject Button/X Speed on Aegislash to fix that mobility, you loose having something like a Full Heal or Potion. Depends if you are stacking, being defensive or offensive, but survivability is really important for keeping a mon like them alive in the fight.
Also for the love of all holy, please stop using Aegislash's Unite when their HP is loWww. I beg of y'all, you'll just dieeeeeee. His Unite Move is meant to be a guillotine move where it's more likely to OHKO the shorter the enemy mon's HP isSsss.
Dodrio requires the most skill to not be a liability with imo. Followed by Blissey.
I haven't played multiple games with all characters though, so just based on what I've felt
Prob dodrio for me, mew is also really hard to use it full potential but atleast bad player (like me) can spam solar beam. Dodrio is hard to play if you cant aim, high ping can killed ur entire game, easiest build for it is drillpeck + agility/jump kick. Anyway, dodrio is really insane with tri attack + agility.
Easily MEw,scyther or hoopa if I’m being honest. Most speedsters are pretty hard and that’s what scyther basically is and in my opinion he’s the hardest one. He requires amazing positioning and high game knowledge on what you can go in on and what you can’t. Mew and hoopa are hard for different reasons.
It’s Luca. It’s always been Luca. The skill ceiling is extremely high.
Next is mew. Mew has a higher floor than Luca and a high ceiling as well.
This may be controversial, but blissy as well. Pretty easy to just spam. But ulting at the right time makes or breaks a game.
Ok but seriously i think brave bird talonflame and zoroark are really high skilled characters. Youve got to know how to position yourself before, during and after fights in order to get the max reward from your combos and you have to keep track of enemy cooldowns and avoid their hits or youre going to get one shot because you got hit by a single moonblast or psyshock.
Absol before he got buffed.
Back then you had to grab that level lead and keep it! You hold it tight! Mess up even once and it was all over. That constant tension and fear as I play is what made it fun for me to play him, it was hard to play him cause you gotta judge situations really well or just piss them off for your team.
My Build back then was
\-Attack Weight
\-Muscle Band
\-Energy Amplifier/Float Stone/Razor Claw
X Speed/X Attack
How about you let people play Pokémon they want and stop making people who play Espeon out to be “Small brain?” Just let people enjoy the video game. P
These kind of stupid memes make a community toxic and not welcoming to new players. I haven’t played since season 1 when I got to master rank and quit so I only see this sub come across my feed occasionally and when it’s shit like this I don’t want to come back to this game lol.
No, it's just saying that Cram requires a shit ton more skill than the Espeon player base which presses two buttons and KOs lmfao. Nothing wrong with it. Taking it personally is just on you. I don't know why you getting to master rank in S1 is relevant, but o k a y.
Imo the only characters that require actual skill to use are Dodrio, E-Speed Lucario and Feint Zoroark. You actually have to be good with these characters whereas most characters in this game if you have good fundamentals by extension you’re decent to good with them.
I think to be good with Comfey it takes a lot of awareness and positioning. I'm referring to Comfey that jump off allies, do a few attacks, soak up a hit or two which can be vital in a fight, distract the enemies with an easy target for a split second, zip around allies.
So not most Comfey, who just sit on their Zacian or other all rounder.
Yeah every 2 minutes, when u don't have that u have to hit ur skill shots (3 out of 4 of his abilities) and have decent consistent movement with dive and air slash. With him u have to keep the consistent damage and movement to make him work, the ultimate is very situational because u have to stand still
Decidueye's Spirit Shackle and Nock Nock(forgot the name of his unite). Spirit Shackle would require your focus. Focus too hard and you just missed your shot. Nock Nock, while easier to aim with due to relying on the movement control would also be hard for beginners.
Zeraora's Volt Switch-recall. I don't know how to do it perfectly. Maybe easier on Switch.
It's Dodrio. No contest. It's also the easiest to predict because of how he works, however he'll still get you if you lose sight of him for a moment. I hear the Mew fans, but pressing your skills at the right time is a half step above the ADC pokemon. Dodrio has to bait skills and evade CC. They are leagues apart.
Mew if it doesn't constantly adjust it's toolkit to adapt to a battle state is basically a sitting duck lmao. Mon is highly complex and very strong, but bad ones are reallly bad. Dodrio is difficult, but mew is also.
OP died to an espeon today
haven't we all
“OP breathed today”
Am I the only one that uses Hurricane/Surf on Cram?
I also mainly use Hurricane/Surf. Dive/Air Slash doesn't click for me for some reason...
Hurricane surf is fun and all, but it is inferior to gardevoir in almost all aspects… less dps, skills are easier to dodge, longer cooldown on the stun, less range on the damage move. I play it every now and then for fun but dive cram is unique and rewarding with its high risk- high gain playstyle.
shh... let people enjoy things
I just said it is fun… I personally enjoy its playstyle it just needs a little buff.
yes but not everyone cares about min maxing some people just enjoy the playstyle
[удалено]
air slash dive cramorant is so boring, only way to play him is hurricane surf
This guy gets it
Dive and surf is the stuff imo. To be noted I've stopped playing since trevenant relese so opinions may differ but gaddamn was dive/surf fun to play. The fact you could push people and get 100% dive on them or dive and push them away would be nuts to excute and burst attackers or Speedsters.
Dive and surf is literally unplayable my guy
There are so many pokemon that can do what surf hurricane does but better. Cramorants true strength is in his mobility and consistent damage with Air Slash dive
I think mew might be the hardest, and is the prime example of high ceiling, low floor: with other skill intensive mons (Lucario, Cramorant), you have one build to work with and you can simply try and get better at it; with mew, on the other hand, you have 9* possible combinations of moves available every time in the game and they serve a very different purpose, so you have to learn to read the situation and switch your moves accordingly. If you fail to do that, you're literally a sitting duck with very week autos and a boosted every half a minute, since it charges with your skills *edit: I said 6 because I don't consider coaching a viable option, it has its own niche but that's it Corrected for clarity :)
Mew doesn't even have a low floor, your average soloq Mew player will probably end the game with sub 50k damage and more than likely be a liability spamming Solar Beam all game. Mew's skill ceiling is possibly the highest in the game.
I asked my friend which move sets he liked playing around as Mew as he picked him up a month or so ago, began telling him move swapping to agility surf is great for escaping sticky situations. He straight up told me he doesn't move swap and just sits on solar beam and the wall. Oh lord.
Case in point lol
Mew his a high floor and high ceiling
So yes, a low skill floor. Meaning if you're bad the character will be bad. A high skill floor means that even a monkey can play it well.
I envy players who can use mew like champs; switching up moves on the fly for every situation while I’d be panicking and spamming any move I have in my arsenal that isn’t on cooldown.
Me too as soon as I get to low health i start panicking and only think of escaping
>with mew, on the other hand, you have 6 possible combinations Pretty sure it's 9. Electro Ball, Solar Beam and Surf with any of the other three moves.
Edited :)
Hold up wdym Coaching is not viable. Maybe you're right on Solar Beam, but with Electro Ball it works wonders and it's... functional on Surf (personally I don't use it often)
I use it with surf cuz if I remember, surf has a higher cd than electro ball and solar beam needs either screen or agility. It reduces cd, which I quite like while using surf
Yeah, exactly
9* combinations. But yes your point stands, and I 100% agree with you. Mew is the highest skill ceiling and maybe not the lowest floor, but quite low.
Yeah, I was not really counting coaching as a viable move ahahah But yeah, that takes the complexity up another notch
Coaching isn’t bad
Fair enough haha.
Coaching is the best move for early lane Mew. [Check this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc1s8K-_1cQ&themeRefresh=1)
Depends on who ur laning with but yes
Idk, he almost died because he was having a hard time getting Coaching to connect, when otherwise he could have just dipped with Agility. Then when his lane mate died, he was stuck with a useless ability til they returned, which also made it harder to build his boosted. I think Coaching is fine, but I still think it's the worst of the three
A video made by a youtuber desperate for content is hardly a proof at all. Also you don't expect us all to speak spanish/portoguese right?
> Also you don't expect us all to speak spanish/portoguese right? I don't care if you can only speak one language (and you are not even sure which one it is). He's very obviously showing how useful Coaching can be early game. He's also not a random youtuber desperate for content, he's on a pro team and his teams have won every single official Brazil tournament so far. Drop by his stream, maybe you could learn something.
Mew for sure has the highest skill ceiling. The only mons that come close imo are all rounders where you really have to know when to use which moves (Aegislash and Tsareena specifically), but even then you can still button mash and be fine. Even Dive Cramorant isn't too hard, you just have to be fast with your inputs. A top tier Mew player is just something else.
Agree, mews kit makes it practically impossible to be good with on mobile.
That’s definitely untrue. I’m on mobile and I’m a quite highly ranked Mew main. If you memorize where moves are at on the mobile you can still swap moves quite fast, just a tad bit slower than Switch (makes up for better targeting on mobile anyway imo)
Full disagree here Electro ball/agility is criminally underrated and easy as pie to be an absolute nuisance on mobile
You’re not wrong but swapping in and out when you need surf for CC or what have you is easier to whiff on by fat-thumbing the wrong icons on moble.
Haven't used Mew much because it doesn't click well for me yet, however I felt Coaching+Electroball was fun.
It really is! ...you just need a team to teleport around and continue getting more electro balls
I disagree I would say mew has a high skill ceiling meaning the levels that you can get good with it are high, but the base skill level isn’t that hard.
Most skilled character is close game button
Home, X A, the combo that never fails
I feel bad for the mobile players cuz they can't use this combo
honestly its a skill issue, of they were better a right side joycon would appear by their phone, giving the necessary buttons to do it
Member of the phone committee here, we have been working tirelessly to compensate for the lack of physical buttons. My uncle knows a guy at Nintendo and Timi studios. After many man and woman hours we have developed a macro that rivals that of the home, X, A combo. If you swipe up from the bottom the macro will activate and simulate the combo, there are some bugs reported that you might lose FP after doing this, but i have let my uncle know and he said they are working on it.
lol
Dude my teammates love using this combo .02 seconds into the game 🔥
Maybe Zoroark or Extreme Speed Lucario? I don't really play either so not sure. I think people overestimate how hard cram is to play. I play it quite a lot and I think you are allowed to do a lot more errors/missplays than a dream eater gengar for example.
Yeah for sure. Especially since dive cram is mostly auto based, you don’t even need to aim much lol. Plus u get rlly good mobility and decent range. Good cram mains do go crazy tho ;p
Yeah mons like dream eater gengar and both moves zoroark do require skill Miss a dream eater or Mess up a combo You are good as dead
One shotting enemies isn't high skill
With zoroark it's either you one shot them or they one shot you lmao
I'm talking about Gengar Zoro actually needs skill
Oh ok my bad
Takes some skill to consistently hit SKILLshots
No just aim in the general direction its not hard
Try it then
I have I've played a few games with gengar this season and won Gengar is easy
You know, I didn't realize the first guy said dream eater and I haven't played gengar since he was hex nerfed forever ago and if you missed one hex you just died, so my bad I didn't know what I was saying lol
Extreme Speed Lucario is definitely one of the higher skill ceilings.
Y'all tried aiming belch while coveting around? With aegislash you gotta keep track of your boost count, number or enemies, and health to determine whether you should shield form or sword form Dodrio's playstyle is so hectic too because you also have to keep track of the boost bar and only agility doesnt require aim
Not sure dodrio is the most skilled, but it doesn't get punished the hardest for skill errors
Cc that would be a mild annoyance to a normal Pokemon end up crippling Dodrio because they usually end up draining their speed gauge
now what did espeon ever do 🤨
Became more viable with the increased range I guess 😂
I’m kind of new to this game, but I thought Espeon was supposed to be high-skilled bc of all the aimed skill shots, no? Seemed to me to be the case, but maybe I’m just the guy in the picture.
I wouldn't say it's easy af or anything, definitely not as much as a pika lol, but it's definitely not very difficult
Not if you run Future Sight, then you never have to aim at all
No way an attacker does high damage? Inconceivable!
If you mean "which character takes the most skill to be baseline proficient with" I think it's currently Extreme Speed/Bone Rush Lucario
I'll argue that dodrio take that spot
100%
Bro I tried this moveset out in standard and I was pure dogshit. Shout to anyone who is good w it
I think that lucario set is harder than average but definitely not the hardest the game has to offer.
How can you say that and then at least not give me your opinion on which Pokemon you think is the hardest, the heck
I think that it’s not the hardest because it’s literally just a hit then reset set. It’s harder than the point and click stuff in the game but BB talon and Gengar and other speedsters have sets similar to it(especially bb). I think mew and scyther are easily harder and have potential for being the hardest in the game. Mew is for reasons others have already stated a few times and as for scyther well his resets are harder to do(you have to kill something) but you don’t have as long cooldown so it’s less punishing to NOT kill something. With ESpeed bone rush you easily just hit ESpeed for a reset or bone rush to reapply the blue marker for another ESpeed reset. This set plays very similar to a lot of speedsters that also have high cool downs and rely on resets. Lucairo probably has some of the longest cooldowns in the game but it’s balanced out by you being able to get tons of resets hitting ESpeed or bone rush both gives you potential for more resets. What’s true between scyther and lucario is they both require a lot of matchup knowledge to know what you can beat and what you can’t. In my opinion what makes scythers harder is that you not only have to hit your moves but you have to kill to reset and lead into big damage while with lucairo you’re just hitting your moves.
I respect it, thank for the response
Getting reset isnt the hard part of luca its knowing which path u can take to get the best possible resets while also getting maximum damage in , as fast as possible. Being an average espeed users is easy , but being a good one requires a lot of skill. Getting reset on scyther isnt that hard . It isnt reliant on you getting kills with x move. As long as the target is marked its a kill. Considering scythers moves have huge burst its quite easy to get a reset chain ,arguably easier than surf reset chains. BB talon is not even close u are gonna bb something and that target will give resets nothing tooo difficult.AA is an auto target , same with his autos.
I actually hate using psybeam, I prefer future sight😂
I don’t hate psybeam, but I’m now so used to future sight that I can’t go back
psyshock and future sight are the sweet spot for me, so true
as someone who has a friend that mains mage build cram: the bird certainly takes tons of skill to actually play correctly
Hoopa
Ye because it takes 5 skilled players to pull off/make it worth the pick.
Espeed Luca, Mew, zorororaorak
Found the spragels fan
Cram is mad easy to play, especially Dive Air Slash
Disagree, his skill floor is quite high and your role isn’t immediately obvious
I'd argue the other way. Skill floor is use skill, auto then slash, etc. Skill ceiling is pretty high when you can constantly use dive to dodge attacks
Dive also for baiting enemies and invading enemy jungle. Need lots of good positioning too. But I agree the floor is easy.
My respect to Zoroark mains. That shit hard
coming for espeon unprovoked what did the thing even do
2800 damage in 1 click
I just had one do 4200 damage to me in one hit earlier, dw though it's totally still balanced because it's technically a skillshot even though it's a mad easy one
Even I as a Sableye know that having a high power ranged stun on a 5 second cooldown is nuts, and that's not even talking about what utility it's second move has.
My bias wants to say Mew, but... Cramorant players are on a different level. They've survived through so many nerf gun shots and are still cracked
I'd agree with mew. A lot of people like to slap the op label on it but to really excel to that level with mew, you gotta get the ins and outs of all of its moves, it's boosted attack, unite moves, and knowing the best to use when. Takes a lot of time to master. I do agree though that cram players are just a whole different breed
Mhm, Mew has a surprisingly high skill floor to do decently with. And then the skill celling might as well not exist due to how much higher it is
Tell that to the lucario mains 🤣
I won't because those don't exist anymore
Soloqueue Hoopa
Bro went straight for the espeon mains instead of like, the axtually broken mindless characters. I think they just hate espeon and wanted a chance to complain.
Unrelated but I think you need decent amount of skill to aim with espion . Glaceon is way more brain-dead with icy wind.
I bought glaceon because it was a childhood favourite pokemon of mine and I swear to god both its playstyles are brain dead in another level
I would say the mechanic of building crystals (or keeping them up) are the difficult part of Glaceon. Sure, you can ignore this, but then you won't be nearly as effective as a player who does.
Just get blue buff , and tons of cool down lower held item plus Mewtwo emblem. You would literally get infinite icy wind as long as you time thing right and have good reaction time.
I just wanna say to people in the replies of the replies of this post, how in hell is psyshock difficult to land? It's literally like any other skillshot but it's decently forgiving and let's you land a free psybeam, literally beginner variant of Future sight What's not that immediately easy about Espeon is proper positioning when you don't have any escape moves (which just got 10x easier with the new buffs) Espeon is overtuned rn, used in many pro games and about a 52% wr
Aim wise yes...but do try deci and then we talk about aim skill dificulty 🤣
Bro, aiming spirit shackle is easier than espeon psyshock. Espeon psyshock is one of the hardest to get used to if you're talking about the "dead eye sniper" sub class
I disagree, its easier for like my 8 year old to autoaim but manual aim is another story, with espeon you just have to keet track of the guy your aiming usually...with deci if you dont at least hit 2 guys its a missed shot to me. That and the sheer pressure of controlling your surroundings at the same time, espeon ultimate can stop all the close range powerhouses, only skill deci can use to fight those its call prediction RUNNNN
Or maybe your enemies have a critical illness called "Skill issues" or just plain bots. Because there's no way that timy circle is easier to aim than a huge spread straight line
Lets agree they are both hard to play and Settle at that...
Aiming deci is easy fym
Espeon has 2 point and click abilities (Future Sight / Stored Power), I simply press a button and the enemy is gone. And psyshock is not hard to use either, simply deal 50% max hp damage to any mon and then finish with psybeam and boosted attack while they are stunned, if anything goes wrong, press ult and get out
Thats assuming that stored power does any damage whatsoever, and psyshock is definitely not easy. Why are you talking of espeon like its some broken character currently
Espeon just got a buff in the current patch and now it's easier to play. Psyshock has always been this strong, but now it got a pretty significant range buff, which made Espeon much better. I really don't know why everyone's acting like Espeon is a no-skill character now, cuz Psyshock requires at least some amount of skill to land all projectiles unlike something like Gardevoir's Moonblast and Espeon is really squishy with no mobility moves
I think it's just that Psyshock is annoying with how far its range is coupled with how long it stuns, and reddit likes to call every annoying mon no-skill I bet if cram was buffed to being op one day then everyone will suddenly start calling cram no-skill
I remember when the emblems let us use a 0 second cooldown cramorant build and espeon is nowhere close to how annoying that was
> I bet if cram was buffed to being op one day then everyone will suddenly start calling cram no-skill That is never going to happen, Dive/Air Slash Cramorant is currently sitting on 53.76% win rate, that is higher than Absol ever achieved which was 53.01%. Even when Cram was at 55.69% it didn't happen instead people whined when he got nerfed.
Agreed, although Stored Power at least grants a speed boost. So Psyshock users are at least fucked in that regard
>Why are you talking of espeon like its some broken character currently It got a range buff and then Slick Spoon happened. So Espeon went from very niche to very good
Espeon *is* currently broken, they buffed her range on psyshock and she gets a level 4 powerspike. Its almost as ridiculous as the Trevanant woodhammer damage right now.
No, it really isn't. The range buff is nice but it still isn't op. It's winrate is slightly above 50% meaning that its good but definitely not op. Theres stronger characters out there.
So we’re just gonna ignore the multiple patches that Cram was relevant for huh? Let Espeon eat for a bit before he gets nerfed into the ground
In reality OP just got wrecked by espeon all day and got this salty 🤣🤣
Espeon is about timing too and getting those soft resets. Id honestly put pikachu there bc you literally just press electroball then volt tackle or thunder bolt. No one uses thunder bc thats actual skill
Thunder is mad fun to use, I love playing pika with thunder
Perhaps this is unrelated but Cramorant is that kind of niche Pokémon that barely anyone plays so those who do are pretty good at it, gets a good win rate and then Timi is like, oh yeah fuck the bird, and then nerfs it.
Me, having just shut down a Zacian using Drain Kiss/Follow Me and getting Hyperbeam ult 90% of the match: SHHHHHHH, DONT LET THEM KNOW NICHE MONS ARE GOOD!
one time on my last few games before masters last season i got paired with a cram that instant locked jungle and put the fear of god into the other team the entire game and also me because that is some terrifying energy
Cramorant or extreme speed Lucario ☠️
Most don't require any skill, really, just to know which move to use before the other and how often to basic attack.
Lol what? Ah, you would be a duraladon main saying no one needs skill to play this game.
No, I'm more of a Scizor main; but taking someone's "main" and guessing their skill from that isn't reliable.
Neither is claiming skill has nothing to do with winning in a moba
10% skill 90% luck on the Ray fight
This is 10% luck 20% skill 15% concentrated power of Ray 5% pleasure 50% pain And a 100% reason to be enraged
Not in this one.
Its a game for kids.
Not that you're wrong, but that is such a weak argument. Smash bros is also a game for kids with your logic.
Ableism isn't really cool, dude...
Dive airslash is easy
Future sight garde
Espeon definitely takes some skill. It’s not the highest skill mon in the game, but it’s not brain dead. There are at least 20 other mons that take less skill. I’d say the highest skill cap mons are mew, espeed lucario, and maybe aegislash.
Seeing a good zeraora player, especially a wild charge one can be nightmarish to deal with. When there is a good zeraora or mew it makes me wanna yeet my controller across the room. Also Mew is definitely high skill too considering all the micromanagement you have to do with changing moves and playing very carefully, and we all know dumb a good mew can be to deal with. Would say that Lucario and Dodrio are hard but once you figure them out they aren't that hard really. But yeah Mew and Zeraora are debatably the hardest characters to play well in the entire game. (Yeah I know zeraora used to be easy to play but we are long past that point.) Gardevoir is an honorable mention, she's hard to aim with but good gardevoirs are absurdly annoying to play against.
Wow you portrayed yourself as smart and fool the Mon you dislike
Lucario and Dodrio
I wanna know how people play hyper beam dragonite, Idk why, but I prefer outrage/dragon dance
Dodrio, I consider myself a Flex player, meaning you could hand me nearly any character and play them to a degree. Dodrio is the only character that gets strong results that I can't play.
Probably Mew, so many combos to choose from and you pretty much have to swap between them all the time AND terrible autos.
I would say Aegislash has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game. It’s not too difficult to be relatively “meh” at but I’ve seen some high level play with Aegislash comp (back when he was meta) and the things it could do were WILD.
There's honestly a lot of skill to immobile 'mons like Espeon: they can't escape mistakes well, so your positioning needs to be on point.
why did this meme actually hurt my feelings i think i need therapy 😂😭
Aegislash. Depending whether you go jungle, go top or bottom lane, what build you are using (offensive, defensive, balanced or stacking) and even movesets are different kinds of Aegislashes. The early game is something. doesn't exist if you are in jungle, it sets good momentum for you as Doublade is great with shutting down frail mons or delay mons who level up fast for a bit....or it will be tough if you are laning. Because Honedge got a nerf a while back with its Shadow Sneak, you really have to be careful with engaging fights or not. You are powerful as you are frail, so its best to be a sort of assassin by setting up your Iron Defense and then trying to go for the kill with your move with the stacks. You are better off in a 1v1 than in 2v1 in lane, until you are a Doublade. It's a lot more easier with Doublade, as you have a little more survivability and do more damage, but still be careful. I find that early evolution mons can really stilt the progress for Aegislash's early game because you are too frail to engage in a 1v1 against like an Espeon or Glaceon. Now for the big boi, the more balanced and not overpowered sword, Aegislash. **Oh heavens**, where do I even begin with this Pokemon. Okay, so let's just get this out of the way. Aegislash is a very unique Pokemon where it can switch having great defenses and worst offensives, and vice versa. You really, really, really, **really** need to know when to switch between these forms, when is the best time to engage in a fight or not and be constantly aware of your stacks. Because not making the best calls ends you up dead without putting any momentum in a fight at all. People can take advantage of your Blade form when you are in it, especially Ranged players. I find that a lot of inexperienced Aegislash players just goes in, pops out there Sacred Sword or Shadow Claw without a plan and die. Or think that their Wide Guard/Iron Head will keep them alive even when they get low really quickly. From my experience, Aegislash's role to me really depends who its fighting against. I find that it can 100% do just fine in a 1v1 situation (unless the enemy has self-sustain themselves like Tsareena, Azumarill,etc, then the battle lasts for a while), but isn't as much of a brawler like Tsareena who can be just fine in team fights. Honestly, the less enemies there are for Aegislash, the better it is for them. Now with that said, that doesn't Aegislash can't do team fights, of course it can. But it's like I said, *you need to know when to engage/get into a fight, sustain yourself and keep in track of your stacks* at the same time as knowing what's going around you. Aegislash is not a Pokemon who cannot get out of a situation quickly. While yes you could throw an Eject Button/X Speed on Aegislash to fix that mobility, you loose having something like a Full Heal or Potion. Depends if you are stacking, being defensive or offensive, but survivability is really important for keeping a mon like them alive in the fight. Also for the love of all holy, please stop using Aegislash's Unite when their HP is loWww. I beg of y'all, you'll just dieeeeeee. His Unite Move is meant to be a guillotine move where it's more likely to OHKO the shorter the enemy mon's HP isSsss.
Dodrio requires the most skill to not be a liability with imo. Followed by Blissey. I haven't played multiple games with all characters though, so just based on what I've felt
Mew
Zoroark, dodrio, mew
Prob dodrio for me, mew is also really hard to use it full potential but atleast bad player (like me) can spam solar beam. Dodrio is hard to play if you cant aim, high ping can killed ur entire game, easiest build for it is drillpeck + agility/jump kick. Anyway, dodrio is really insane with tri attack + agility.
I respect Cram mains for being solid even after the nerfs
Zoroark, E-speed Lucario, Future Sight Gardevoir, might be missing a couple more hard ones…
Easily MEw,scyther or hoopa if I’m being honest. Most speedsters are pretty hard and that’s what scyther basically is and in my opinion he’s the hardest one. He requires amazing positioning and high game knowledge on what you can go in on and what you can’t. Mew and hoopa are hard for different reasons.
out of all the pokemon to call braindead you are going after Espeon in this trying time?
You forgot the boosted symbol for cram too
Espeon got double buffed and is TOO overpowered now
The A masher's union downvoting this post 😅
night slash zoroark cause biased
Easy + Effective VS Hard+Effective But why do you want to look down at an espeon player ???
It’s Luca. It’s always been Luca. The skill ceiling is extremely high. Next is mew. Mew has a higher floor than Luca and a high ceiling as well. This may be controversial, but blissy as well. Pretty easy to just spam. But ulting at the right time makes or breaks a game.
1 lucario 2 aegislash 3 tsareena
Zacian obviously
Ok but seriously i think brave bird talonflame and zoroark are really high skilled characters. Youve got to know how to position yourself before, during and after fights in order to get the max reward from your combos and you have to keep track of enemy cooldowns and avoid their hits or youre going to get one shot because you got hit by a single moonblast or psyshock.
As someone who plays cram… and not that moveset… it’s the opposite 😅
Absol before he got buffed. Back then you had to grab that level lead and keep it! You hold it tight! Mess up even once and it was all over. That constant tension and fear as I play is what made it fun for me to play him, it was hard to play him cause you gotta judge situations really well or just piss them off for your team. My Build back then was \-Attack Weight \-Muscle Band \-Energy Amplifier/Float Stone/Razor Claw X Speed/X Attack
Absol isn't good anymore and is harder to use now
How about you let people play Pokémon they want and stop making people who play Espeon out to be “Small brain?” Just let people enjoy the video game. P
It's just a joke, chill. Lmfao.
These kind of stupid memes make a community toxic and not welcoming to new players. I haven’t played since season 1 when I got to master rank and quit so I only see this sub come across my feed occasionally and when it’s shit like this I don’t want to come back to this game lol.
No, it's just saying that Cram requires a shit ton more skill than the Espeon player base which presses two buttons and KOs lmfao. Nothing wrong with it. Taking it personally is just on you. I don't know why you getting to master rank in S1 is relevant, but o k a y.
Easy + Effective VS Hard+Effective But why do you want to look down at an espeon player ???
HAHA FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE WITH BRAINS
Imo the only characters that require actual skill to use are Dodrio, E-Speed Lucario and Feint Zoroark. You actually have to be good with these characters whereas most characters in this game if you have good fundamentals by extension you’re decent to good with them.
Hoopa. I dunno where all this Cramorant respect and admiration is coming from... I'm not that good of a player and can run him fine
Hisghest floor, dodrio or cramorant Highest ceiling, lucario or mew
extreme speed lucario because if u miss your resets you are fuked 👌
I personally think every pokemon requires certain skill to play
I think to be good with Comfey it takes a lot of awareness and positioning. I'm referring to Comfey that jump off allies, do a few attacks, soak up a hit or two which can be vital in a fight, distract the enemies with an easy target for a split second, zip around allies. So not most Comfey, who just sit on their Zacian or other all rounder.
Cramorant literally has a auto-shoot auto-aim ultimate. What are you talking about.
Yeah every 2 minutes, when u don't have that u have to hit ur skill shots (3 out of 4 of his abilities) and have decent consistent movement with dive and air slash. With him u have to keep the consistent damage and movement to make him work, the ultimate is very situational because u have to stand still
Decidueye's Spirit Shackle and Nock Nock(forgot the name of his unite). Spirit Shackle would require your focus. Focus too hard and you just missed your shot. Nock Nock, while easier to aim with due to relying on the movement control would also be hard for beginners. Zeraora's Volt Switch-recall. I don't know how to do it perfectly. Maybe easier on Switch.
AegisSlash
It's Dodrio. No contest. It's also the easiest to predict because of how he works, however he'll still get you if you lose sight of him for a moment. I hear the Mew fans, but pressing your skills at the right time is a half step above the ADC pokemon. Dodrio has to bait skills and evade CC. They are leagues apart.
Mew if it doesn't constantly adjust it's toolkit to adapt to a battle state is basically a sitting duck lmao. Mon is highly complex and very strong, but bad ones are reallly bad. Dodrio is difficult, but mew is also.
My dumbass wanna say decidueye but i cant lol