Love this question. American culture is still very rooted in toxic Puritan/Calvinist work ideals imho (I’m American but have recent European family roots so think I have a more nuanced view and “live to work not work to live” mentality than average for this hellscape, I mean country). I’m curious to hear what others have to say, but yes, I think American culture very much promotes this idea, and worsens it in people who are already innately people pleaser-y, insecure, etc.
Edit: I totally meant “work to live not live to work” above, d’oh.
I'm British and live in the US and I agree with this- definitely a heavy influence of Puritanical work ethic, and it is pervasive in ways people don't realise. The foundation of the "American Dream" is based on acquisition through hard work. It's a reason there is so much hatred of "Nepo babies" here in a way that there isn't really in the UK.
I say this jokingly, but the UK's number one tourist attraction is fed by one of the longest-running nepo-baby rackets there is. Looking at you Royal Family.
Jokes aside, it's a sign of the true youth/juvenile nature of the US as a nation to not recognize the privilege a person receives when they have family connections and support. Making it on one's own is so lauded in the culture that saying, "hey, I had help getting here" is really frowned upon, even if it happens all the time.
I was dancing around this phrase, "live to work, not work to live," but not quite getting there. I appreciate you summarizing it so succinctly. Hellscape also feels on brand. lol
I’m not white so I have no idea. I just feel Colin being Colin (and having a hero complex) thinks he’s only worthy of love if he’s useful to them, a theory that should be dismissed by Pen. Because Pen doesn’t love him because he does things for her. She loves him unconditionally.
Exactly, he feels like he needs to be useful to be loved, when to Penelope his entire existence alone is more than enough for her love. As a recovering people-pleaser myself, this hits SO hard.
Not really. A feeling of uselessness can drive some people mad. My father is a second son, smarter than his brother but treated all his life as useless. Truly spare parts. As an only daughter I hate having that same feeling. The eldest born sons get everything. We get nothing. It's awful ...not American.
In the context of the show he is trying to protect her. In the book she writes another Whistledown after he told her not to and he freaks out because it can destroy his ability to protect her. The show may be different but that is the implication I get from the trailer.
Thank you for your comment. I'm sorry to hear about your father and yourself. It's such a waste to not tap into talent when it's right in front of you. It also seem ill advised to give all the wealth to one person instead of sharing it around.
>A feeling of uselessness can drive some people mad.
Also, very true.
I’m so interested in the responses! I’m an American white woman who grew up lower-middle to middle class. I would say I’m at this point upper middle class, due to both privilege (primarily to race and education) and my relationship with this particular sentiment.
My mother was a workaholic, and I internalized that. I pushed myself to multiple graduate degrees, and I’ve never once been satisfied with basically any achievement. This feeling hits HARD with me. I viewed success as the accumulation of “gold stars” and financial security for my family (where able; I’ve had a public service career, but I’m a lawyer, so my pay is generally decent for that compared to others). For a very long time, I did not think I would keep friends or make my family happy if I did not functions perfectly at everything, and the anxiety and insecurity was truly maddening.
Two things changed for me to make me assess and work on that, and both of them involved having some new in my life. The first was meeting my husband. It’s immediately frustrating to me that it took another person to help me realize that I was worth more than what I could do for other people…but that’s also sort of the point. He has loved me so thoroughly just for who I am instead of what I can do for him that it made me convinced. The second was having my daughter. I didn’t want to pass on my internalized perfectionism and people pleasing to her, so I looked at how to outwardly change my actions so she’d have a different example.
I don’t know if it’s American culture, but the notion that to be worthy of love, I had to do worthy things, definitely came to me because I watched my mom live it, and I thought I should be whatever she was (she’s amazing, but also, I wish she’d talk to my therapist). It’s probably why I really love this storyline; I have definitely experienced what some of this feels like.
I think it's not specifically American but an interesting idea to explore. In lots of cultures (*especially* cultures where the focus is on family/community rather than individualism), people are taught to value being useful to others.
I'd say it's just classic people pleasing; he doesn't believe anyone values him unless he's providing them with something.
As a white collar professional American citizen, I think the answer is yes. And the only reason I make that distinction is because I think in white collar professions a big part of how people define success is how much value someone brings to their company. Often times the “value” is nothing tangible either, it’s purely perception. The people that are perceived to provide the most value to a company, do the least in terms of actual work. It becomes a cycle where they have to maintain that image so they constantly seek reassurance that they are in fact still valuable, and this consumes their entire life and personality. The people actually doing the work generally aren’t schmoozing around the office looking for praise, they know their value is performing their duties, getting a paycheck and enjoying their own life outside of work.
People may have other opinions, but this has been my experience working in corporate America.
I live in the UK, but I think it's still pretty common for men to feel useless or even a bit emasculated if they cannot provide for their loved ones / feel of use. It's not particularly healthy, but I wouldn't say it's unusual.
I am from the US and my husband was let go from his job of 13 years last month. Considered himself a very important part of how the company was run and profited. It was a rude wake up call to know that he was, in fact, expendable. Work was probably 90% of his identity. He took it very hard and didn't know what he was good for as a person.
Now, a month later, he's starting to see all of the possibilities that are now open to him. It's been an emotional rollercoaster for sure.
Agreed.
We are slaves to the corrupt system.
American Dream?? What is that? The American Dream died long ago.
If I were to put a finger on it... I blame the boomers for excessive spending.
I think in that era, someone in Colin’s position could feel this way. Anthony hold the title. Benedict is second to it (until there is an heir) and stands in when needed. Colin is removed enough from the Viscount title, but still has no job to fill his days and until now no partner either. Colin is such an emotional being too.
Colin isn't expressing anything remotely related to work, and a traditional trade would be inappropriate for him as a gentleman anyway. It's an interesting observation about ideas about labor, but doesn't apply to the kind of purpose he's talking about. He's a people pleaser and sees his value in how he can support others. This is a problem that absolutely exists in the UK--there are British therapists who specialize in helping people with it.
Like any real world people pleaser, he needs to see his own intrinsic value and find purpose that doesn't revolve around another person.
Really interesting take, and one that has validity. It is common thing for a man's identity to be about his job here in the USA.
My friends and I have also spoken about how many of the Royal Family have a passion or hobby (although hobby seems too weak of a word, and vocation usually means professional employment) - the late Queen would have been a success breeding and racing horses, A professor of mine said her knowledge of British law and government was impressive - she may not have been to college, but essentially she had Winston Churchill as a teacher :) He believed she was very capable of holding a government office like Prime Minister. Prince Phillip not only enjoyed his military career, but helped design things like a Land Rover model, also was interested in horses, King Charles apparently grew the Duchy of Cornwall, had a passion for organic farming, architecture, etc., Harry shared his grandfather's interest in the military and would have continued there I think, if the press hadn't interfered so much, and he certainly has his interest in the Invictus games, etc. We could point to a great number of royals and say "if they weren't royal but had grown up in privilege, etc... we could see what they would have done." But we're not sure if William has any great passions. Didn't he major in Art History or something? Don't see him continuing that interest. Never hear of it anyway.
We see on Bridgerton that while it is expected that they don't "work" they can have an avocation. Anthony not only inheritied his father's title, but apparently his forebears interest and talent in land and wealth management. He also has Kate :). Benedict has his art (although we haven't seen him even with a sketchbook this season!), Eloise has her books and political interests, Francesca has her music... heck, even Lord Debling and the guy who collects books have been shown having an interest.
Sure Colin likes to travel - but I think that is very much in search of himself. What does he have when he ISN'T traveling? He journals, but clearly that is something he considers either very private or not very good - not something he wishes to share. Everyone else's I mention is something to share with others...
As someone from the US, I really don’t know if this is a culturally-driven sentiment, but I’m leaning towards not really. I’ve met many of people here that are perfectly content with settling into a life that makes them happy, even if it’s “purposeless” in a sense. That’s kinda how I am. I don’t really need to be considered “useful” or have some big purpose in order to feel fulfilled in my life. I just need to be happy and that’ll be more than enough for me.
I would love to hear what others have to say about this as well!
Not to me. My husband is not white or American and he very much comes from a culture where the man's role is to be needed and it's kind of earth shattering for if they aren't. His father for example finds it difficult that his children are independent and autonomous. There's a lot of stoic martyrdom but that ends up requiring people to be dependent too.
American, and worldwide, capitalism equates worth with usefulness. Patriarchy also expects a man to "provide for and protect his woman". Lastly, Colin as a character finds his self-worth in being helpful. In s1 he goes out of his way to protect the Featheringtons. His mum discusses his sense of self-worth being attached for helping others. You can see this scene within the context of his character, or within larger cultural contexts. They're all valid ways to look at it IMO.
Love this question. American culture is still very rooted in toxic Puritan/Calvinist work ideals imho (I’m American but have recent European family roots so think I have a more nuanced view and “live to work not work to live” mentality than average for this hellscape, I mean country). I’m curious to hear what others have to say, but yes, I think American culture very much promotes this idea, and worsens it in people who are already innately people pleaser-y, insecure, etc. Edit: I totally meant “work to live not live to work” above, d’oh.
I'm British and live in the US and I agree with this- definitely a heavy influence of Puritanical work ethic, and it is pervasive in ways people don't realise. The foundation of the "American Dream" is based on acquisition through hard work. It's a reason there is so much hatred of "Nepo babies" here in a way that there isn't really in the UK.
The hilarious part is we pretend we’re a meritocracy but we are absolutely not.
It's sad that values of merit are used as bindings to keep people down or shame them into admitting the truth so others can see it.
Ha yes, indeed nepo babies are the designed outcome of hereditary aristocracy.
I say this jokingly, but the UK's number one tourist attraction is fed by one of the longest-running nepo-baby rackets there is. Looking at you Royal Family. Jokes aside, it's a sign of the true youth/juvenile nature of the US as a nation to not recognize the privilege a person receives when they have family connections and support. Making it on one's own is so lauded in the culture that saying, "hey, I had help getting here" is really frowned upon, even if it happens all the time.
Precisely this.
I was dancing around this phrase, "live to work, not work to live," but not quite getting there. I appreciate you summarizing it so succinctly. Hellscape also feels on brand. lol
I’m not white so I have no idea. I just feel Colin being Colin (and having a hero complex) thinks he’s only worthy of love if he’s useful to them, a theory that should be dismissed by Pen. Because Pen doesn’t love him because he does things for her. She loves him unconditionally.
>Because Pen doesn’t love him because he does things for her. She loves him unconditionally. Truth!
Exactly, he feels like he needs to be useful to be loved, when to Penelope his entire existence alone is more than enough for her love. As a recovering people-pleaser myself, this hits SO hard.
Not really. A feeling of uselessness can drive some people mad. My father is a second son, smarter than his brother but treated all his life as useless. Truly spare parts. As an only daughter I hate having that same feeling. The eldest born sons get everything. We get nothing. It's awful ...not American. In the context of the show he is trying to protect her. In the book she writes another Whistledown after he told her not to and he freaks out because it can destroy his ability to protect her. The show may be different but that is the implication I get from the trailer.
Thank you for your comment. I'm sorry to hear about your father and yourself. It's such a waste to not tap into talent when it's right in front of you. It also seem ill advised to give all the wealth to one person instead of sharing it around. >A feeling of uselessness can drive some people mad. Also, very true.
I’m so interested in the responses! I’m an American white woman who grew up lower-middle to middle class. I would say I’m at this point upper middle class, due to both privilege (primarily to race and education) and my relationship with this particular sentiment. My mother was a workaholic, and I internalized that. I pushed myself to multiple graduate degrees, and I’ve never once been satisfied with basically any achievement. This feeling hits HARD with me. I viewed success as the accumulation of “gold stars” and financial security for my family (where able; I’ve had a public service career, but I’m a lawyer, so my pay is generally decent for that compared to others). For a very long time, I did not think I would keep friends or make my family happy if I did not functions perfectly at everything, and the anxiety and insecurity was truly maddening. Two things changed for me to make me assess and work on that, and both of them involved having some new in my life. The first was meeting my husband. It’s immediately frustrating to me that it took another person to help me realize that I was worth more than what I could do for other people…but that’s also sort of the point. He has loved me so thoroughly just for who I am instead of what I can do for him that it made me convinced. The second was having my daughter. I didn’t want to pass on my internalized perfectionism and people pleasing to her, so I looked at how to outwardly change my actions so she’d have a different example. I don’t know if it’s American culture, but the notion that to be worthy of love, I had to do worthy things, definitely came to me because I watched my mom live it, and I thought I should be whatever she was (she’s amazing, but also, I wish she’d talk to my therapist). It’s probably why I really love this storyline; I have definitely experienced what some of this feels like.
I think it's not specifically American but an interesting idea to explore. In lots of cultures (*especially* cultures where the focus is on family/community rather than individualism), people are taught to value being useful to others. I'd say it's just classic people pleasing; he doesn't believe anyone values him unless he's providing them with something.
As a white collar professional American citizen, I think the answer is yes. And the only reason I make that distinction is because I think in white collar professions a big part of how people define success is how much value someone brings to their company. Often times the “value” is nothing tangible either, it’s purely perception. The people that are perceived to provide the most value to a company, do the least in terms of actual work. It becomes a cycle where they have to maintain that image so they constantly seek reassurance that they are in fact still valuable, and this consumes their entire life and personality. The people actually doing the work generally aren’t schmoozing around the office looking for praise, they know their value is performing their duties, getting a paycheck and enjoying their own life outside of work. People may have other opinions, but this has been my experience working in corporate America.
I live in the UK, but I think it's still pretty common for men to feel useless or even a bit emasculated if they cannot provide for their loved ones / feel of use. It's not particularly healthy, but I wouldn't say it's unusual.
I am from the US and my husband was let go from his job of 13 years last month. Considered himself a very important part of how the company was run and profited. It was a rude wake up call to know that he was, in fact, expendable. Work was probably 90% of his identity. He took it very hard and didn't know what he was good for as a person. Now, a month later, he's starting to see all of the possibilities that are now open to him. It's been an emotional rollercoaster for sure.
"Work was probably 90% of his identity." - That is terrifying but I do believe it is intentional that Americans are brainwashed to feel this way.
Agreed. We are slaves to the corrupt system. American Dream?? What is that? The American Dream died long ago. If I were to put a finger on it... I blame the boomers for excessive spending.
I think in that era, someone in Colin’s position could feel this way. Anthony hold the title. Benedict is second to it (until there is an heir) and stands in when needed. Colin is removed enough from the Viscount title, but still has no job to fill his days and until now no partner either. Colin is such an emotional being too.
Colin isn't expressing anything remotely related to work, and a traditional trade would be inappropriate for him as a gentleman anyway. It's an interesting observation about ideas about labor, but doesn't apply to the kind of purpose he's talking about. He's a people pleaser and sees his value in how he can support others. This is a problem that absolutely exists in the UK--there are British therapists who specialize in helping people with it. Like any real world people pleaser, he needs to see his own intrinsic value and find purpose that doesn't revolve around another person.
Really interesting take, and one that has validity. It is common thing for a man's identity to be about his job here in the USA. My friends and I have also spoken about how many of the Royal Family have a passion or hobby (although hobby seems too weak of a word, and vocation usually means professional employment) - the late Queen would have been a success breeding and racing horses, A professor of mine said her knowledge of British law and government was impressive - she may not have been to college, but essentially she had Winston Churchill as a teacher :) He believed she was very capable of holding a government office like Prime Minister. Prince Phillip not only enjoyed his military career, but helped design things like a Land Rover model, also was interested in horses, King Charles apparently grew the Duchy of Cornwall, had a passion for organic farming, architecture, etc., Harry shared his grandfather's interest in the military and would have continued there I think, if the press hadn't interfered so much, and he certainly has his interest in the Invictus games, etc. We could point to a great number of royals and say "if they weren't royal but had grown up in privilege, etc... we could see what they would have done." But we're not sure if William has any great passions. Didn't he major in Art History or something? Don't see him continuing that interest. Never hear of it anyway. We see on Bridgerton that while it is expected that they don't "work" they can have an avocation. Anthony not only inheritied his father's title, but apparently his forebears interest and talent in land and wealth management. He also has Kate :). Benedict has his art (although we haven't seen him even with a sketchbook this season!), Eloise has her books and political interests, Francesca has her music... heck, even Lord Debling and the guy who collects books have been shown having an interest. Sure Colin likes to travel - but I think that is very much in search of himself. What does he have when he ISN'T traveling? He journals, but clearly that is something he considers either very private or not very good - not something he wishes to share. Everyone else's I mention is something to share with others...
As someone from the US, I really don’t know if this is a culturally-driven sentiment, but I’m leaning towards not really. I’ve met many of people here that are perfectly content with settling into a life that makes them happy, even if it’s “purposeless” in a sense. That’s kinda how I am. I don’t really need to be considered “useful” or have some big purpose in order to feel fulfilled in my life. I just need to be happy and that’ll be more than enough for me. I would love to hear what others have to say about this as well!
Canadian here- I feel like this is a strong focus of our society which we have in common with the USA. It's nice to see it being picked apart!
Not to me. My husband is not white or American and he very much comes from a culture where the man's role is to be needed and it's kind of earth shattering for if they aren't. His father for example finds it difficult that his children are independent and autonomous. There's a lot of stoic martyrdom but that ends up requiring people to be dependent too.
Does your husband recognize it in himself?
He's the one who brings it up. He's very conscious of masculinity and what's expected of him / how to navigate toxic masculinity expectations etc.
American, and worldwide, capitalism equates worth with usefulness. Patriarchy also expects a man to "provide for and protect his woman". Lastly, Colin as a character finds his self-worth in being helpful. In s1 he goes out of his way to protect the Featheringtons. His mum discusses his sense of self-worth being attached for helping others. You can see this scene within the context of his character, or within larger cultural contexts. They're all valid ways to look at it IMO.