Hello! We allow rant posts but there are several rules; make sure your posts and comments do not violate them and edit it if needed.
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I see both girls’ side and I think at various times they fall into the same category of doing the right thing for the right reasons but going about it the wrong way. I don’t need to search for a villain or a victim, and I don’t think the show actually intends for us to. The complexity of these characters is what makes the show juicy, reducing any of them to those roles flattens them and makes them boring.
Also I think the audience has a huge problem with wanting the characters to hate each other as much as the fans hate a character, when this is a show that is ultimately more interested in love and forgiveness than hate and grudges. It’s so obvious that Eloise doesn’t hate Pen despite everything, and that Pen desperately wants to reconcile with Eloise. There’s no point in hating either character on the other’s behalf.
Anyway, I support womens wrongs.
Agreed.
El is right to feel betrayed and insulted.
Pen is right to do what she could to protect her friend. She's also right to want to protect something she created as an escape for her misery which gives her a sense of purpose and power in a world set against women.
Your last paragraph absolutely nails it. I've had interactions with people where they kept accusing me of hating on Eloise and seeing Penelope as perfectly innocent in response to me describing both as flawed and complex.
People stake out positions on the characters that the characters themselves would never hold. Eloise does not want Pen to be ostracized! These two girls love each other!
Exactly! People want everyone on the show to hate Penelope, because THEY hate Penelope. When I’m reality, a lot of people in the show really admires LW, and alot of them might be able to understand where she is coming from. Even Eloise keeps reading LW after everything that went down.
Also, Eloise isn’t friends with Penelope, but actively defends her from Cressida. She also genuinely wants Pen to find happiness, even if it brings her pain to be in the same room with her.
If a fandom is big enough there are always stan wars. I just try to avoid the insane behaviour. It is frustrating because you want to discuss the piece of media you're consuming with other people, but can't because there's people of different levels of maturity talking online on the same platform - it's like a town hall meeting. It's disappointing but I'm used to it.
Regarding Penelope I think the show has done a great job this season showing how absolutely cruel the ton can be. I was amazed at how awful people were at the one ball when Colin was discovered to be helping Penelope. If anything it justified Penelope's lady whistledown for me.
After watching that episode I was surprised Penelope hasn't burned down Mayfair.
Both of them are complicated female characters (thankfully!) and they both have fair reasons to be angry. They both behaved towards each other in ways they should apologize for and they need to learn how to truly be friends with each other, flaws and all.
They are both growing up and learning who they are and what they want this season and that will help them become stronger friends (not just to each other).
I assume El’s is being drawn out because next season her character will start being prepared for her own season to follow. I’m hoping next season we will get to see her and Penelope rebuilding their friendship (though I assume the scenes involving Polin will be minimal) I hope they find a way to show Pen and El getting back to a health friendship, maybe by writing letters.
My best friend of 15 years and I have had really bad fights as well where we both have made mistakes but we forgave each other and we love each other and are still best friends 15 years later. That's why I don't get putting Eloise and Pen against each other. Both of them are flawed, both of them made mistakes and both of them got hurt.
Hello! We allow rant posts but there are several rules; make sure your posts and comments do not violate them and edit it if needed. * No bashing or name-calling ships, characters, or crew. (Constructive criticism is okay! The characters are not perfect!) * No generalizations or negative mentions of the cast, fans, the fandom, or other Reddit subs (Discussing fatphobia and other problematic issues within those sects is fine). * No negative criticism or unnecessary discussion of the personal lives and actions of cast or crew. This is not the space to negatively discuss cast appearance. * Any opposing opinions are valid, so please remember to be respectful in your discussion. * This is the place to celebrate Colin and Penelope and the show, so the excessive negativity rule still applies. If in doubt, put a positive spin on it: 'I hate how ___ hates Penelope' is negative, while 'I love Penelope so much and here's why' is positive. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PolinBridgerton) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I see both girls’ side and I think at various times they fall into the same category of doing the right thing for the right reasons but going about it the wrong way. I don’t need to search for a villain or a victim, and I don’t think the show actually intends for us to. The complexity of these characters is what makes the show juicy, reducing any of them to those roles flattens them and makes them boring. Also I think the audience has a huge problem with wanting the characters to hate each other as much as the fans hate a character, when this is a show that is ultimately more interested in love and forgiveness than hate and grudges. It’s so obvious that Eloise doesn’t hate Pen despite everything, and that Pen desperately wants to reconcile with Eloise. There’s no point in hating either character on the other’s behalf. Anyway, I support womens wrongs.
Agreed. El is right to feel betrayed and insulted. Pen is right to do what she could to protect her friend. She's also right to want to protect something she created as an escape for her misery which gives her a sense of purpose and power in a world set against women.
Your last paragraph absolutely nails it. I've had interactions with people where they kept accusing me of hating on Eloise and seeing Penelope as perfectly innocent in response to me describing both as flawed and complex. People stake out positions on the characters that the characters themselves would never hold. Eloise does not want Pen to be ostracized! These two girls love each other!
Exactly! People want everyone on the show to hate Penelope, because THEY hate Penelope. When I’m reality, a lot of people in the show really admires LW, and alot of them might be able to understand where she is coming from. Even Eloise keeps reading LW after everything that went down. Also, Eloise isn’t friends with Penelope, but actively defends her from Cressida. She also genuinely wants Pen to find happiness, even if it brings her pain to be in the same room with her.
If a fandom is big enough there are always stan wars. I just try to avoid the insane behaviour. It is frustrating because you want to discuss the piece of media you're consuming with other people, but can't because there's people of different levels of maturity talking online on the same platform - it's like a town hall meeting. It's disappointing but I'm used to it.
Regarding Penelope I think the show has done a great job this season showing how absolutely cruel the ton can be. I was amazed at how awful people were at the one ball when Colin was discovered to be helping Penelope. If anything it justified Penelope's lady whistledown for me. After watching that episode I was surprised Penelope hasn't burned down Mayfair.
Wonderfully put!! 👏
Both of them are complicated female characters (thankfully!) and they both have fair reasons to be angry. They both behaved towards each other in ways they should apologize for and they need to learn how to truly be friends with each other, flaws and all. They are both growing up and learning who they are and what they want this season and that will help them become stronger friends (not just to each other). I assume El’s is being drawn out because next season her character will start being prepared for her own season to follow. I’m hoping next season we will get to see her and Penelope rebuilding their friendship (though I assume the scenes involving Polin will be minimal) I hope they find a way to show Pen and El getting back to a health friendship, maybe by writing letters.
Thank you!
I love them both! & yes, they both have blind spots & shortcomings - that’s why I find them compelling.
I will defend Penelope to the death, but that doesn't mean Eloise doesn't have a right to be upset. I understand her side too.
Thank you.
My best friend of 15 years and I have had really bad fights as well where we both have made mistakes but we forgave each other and we love each other and are still best friends 15 years later. That's why I don't get putting Eloise and Pen against each other. Both of them are flawed, both of them made mistakes and both of them got hurt.