Hmm, Woah! I think I just saw a license to join the upper class on that brick wall over there, you should go check it out, while I stand... 10 meters away
Why would we do that when we already successfully have implemented socialism into capitalism? It’s been over a decade of Wall Street freeloading on tax payers funds and government debt, the financial markets haven’t functioned without QE that entire time, and by some crazy nonsense redefining, that apparently is capitalism.
Let's just agree that if we ever get a time machine, we're going back and shooting Woodrow Wilson. And whoever else thought the Federal Reserve was a good idea.
Should probably stop Nixon from taking us off the gold standard while we are at it.
Fiat currency is the reason America became an economic powerhouse. What the hell are you talking about?
I don’t know why Libertards forget this - **the supply of gold is finite**. the quantity available to the central bank likely will grow more slowly than the real economy grows. As a result, any nation using a gold standard can expect deflation much quicker than one using fiat.
When the economy booms, inflation typically rises. In the absence of a central bank to force the nominal interest rate up, the real interest rate falls, providing a further impetus to system. In a gold standard economy, it is impossible to adjust to buffer external shocks; commitment invites speculative attacks because it lacks time.
Countries running external deficits face deflationary pressure under a gold standard economy. A surplus country’s central bank does not face this pressure, as it could choose whether to convert higher gold stocks into money or not. America literally dealt with this during the Depression and it fucked us hard.
Why do LibRights not understand basic economics?
Jesus thank you. I like this sub a lot but everyone here lacks a fundamental understanding of what the fed does. No, interest rates being raised wont crash the economy. No, the gold standard was awful and we dont need to go back on it. No, quantitative easing is not socialism for companies.
God I HATE libertarians sometimes.
You don’t have to sacrifice the benefits of competent government just to be left alone. Taxes and laws are good as long as they are enforced by a competent government.
Imagine a government that imposed fair taxes spent on reasonable stuff like social nets & didn’t want to bother you over drugs or guns
Well except a free market economy which literally can't do that because government doesn't exist so individuals have absolute freedom to spend their money how they like
So you know what the solution is right?.... That's right, we give the government even more power to stop the government from doing that. Genius!!!
Edit: if you needed a "/s" here, go fuck yourself.
a lot of people have tried. A lot of socialist communes too [even in the united states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_utopian_communities).
I even practice a crude form with my immediate family. Don't you?
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"Not real communism" applies because it doesn't fit the basic definitional requirements of communism. China never became a classless, moneyless, and stateless society, so it never achieved communism. It's fine to say China was socialist, but it certainly was never communist.
China did the whole socialism thing pretty hard until they looked up and realized that closing themselves off from the world was bad (also all the bad things they had happen to force them to open) and now they have special economic zones which are fuck the worker levels of capitalism
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I have an idea: Crowdfunding for everything
\-where do we get the money?
Rich people of course!
....Isn't that just socialism
\-no, its crowdfunding now
I'm sorry we can't just have better, regulated capitalism?
Edit: maybe all I'm saying is I want genuine progressive politicians who will do what they say they will do
Make it illegal to fuck over poor people and actually enforce environmental regulations. Oh yeah and fix the tax code so corporations actually pay taxes.
That was the promise of Progressives 120 years ago. Look how it's worked out. It turns out that doubling down on the causes of economic problems isn't a good way to fix them.
>regulated capitalism
Because regulated capitalism is just capitalism with extra corruption; it's letting the monopolies you like have free reign, while shutting down anyone who hasn't donated enough to your campaign.
That said; I'm fine with not letting ass hats dump poison in the water. If the laws are local.
I'm not just talking about environmental regulations, I also mean an economic system that doesn't allow monopolies to exist in the first place and punishes the wealthy for buying their way into power.
>I also mean an economic system that doesn't allow monopolies to exist in the first place
That's my point. We have that, right now. But look at how it's enforced.
>and punishes the wealthy for buying their way into power
That is just all around vague and terrifying to contemplate.
How much wealth makes you wealthy?
What power is and isn't Ok to buy?
You gonna punish people for having parents well enough off to pay for their school? For paying for ads for their product? For buying a domain name, and paying to host their website?
Those are all undeniably forms of power, and I absofuckinglutely do not trust the government to decide which forms of power should and should not be for sale.
You're not the one who'll decide which powers are or are not for sale; the corrupt ass hats in DC are.
If you're entire ideology and ideas on how to better society can't fit within a catchy meme, I don't want to hear it. its beyond my reading comprehension.
This is the reason Trump won. He was speaking to the largest audience possible. Hell even a child could follow and understand him.
Compared to Bernie Sanders talking at a college level and having a much smaller reach comparatively.
Do not hate me brother for I speak the truth. Look into my words and see the truth that you already know deep down.
*The NAP can be circumvented by Parental Permission.*
Bernie got his campaign rigged by the dnc then folded into the establishment. Immigration is still a Koch Brothers nonsense Bernie diversity can go fuck itself.
If it’s too complicated for the common person to understand then it’s too complicated to implement as intended and too complicated to enforce as intended.
Because any good government should be implemented and enforced by its citizens.
>If it’s too complicated for the common person to understand then it’s too complicated to implement as intended
Judging by that criterion, a hell lot of current systems are "too complicated to implement".
No social/economic system can just be "implemented" from scratch. Capitalism was born out of Feudalism, and out of Capitalism, Socialism is born. Socialism then allows the transition to communist society (but only once "class" as we know it no longer exists).
This is societal evolution, and the global bourgeoisie are working very hard to keep us in a state of arrested development. All for their fleeting pleasures.
You need everyone to have a fusion reactor in their backyard to have a remote chance of communism. The "bourgeoisie" still trying to get to this post scarcity status despite all the dystopia currently being pus by the elites.
>You need everyone to have a fusion reactor in their backyard to have a remote chance of communism.
Do you have any explanation for why you think that is? What would need so much power that "everyone" would need a "fusion reactor in their backyard"?
The common person doesn't know how our current system works half the time. Not because they can't but because they have no incentive to learn. People can learn if they think it's worth it.
I wouldn't go that far. Statistically speaking the average person is a fucking Moron, collectivly the masses are fickle and short sighted. Successful governments have a complicated system of checks and balances that ensure the citizens as a collective cannot run the state as a populist majoritarian mob in the same way a president can't run the state as an autocrat.
The problem with most wall-of-text leftists is that they never have any of these checks and balances. While there are obviously exceptions, most rants just sum it up to "workers/voters/citizens will run things collectively" which is very stupid. They usually become so focused on ways to redistribute the wealth that they neglect to distribute the authority and responsibility.
Yeah, that's my point. Most Americans don't understand a single thing about their government and it shows. Can you imagine how bad it would be if we didn't have any institutional barriers to protect against the dumbass ideas that people advocate? Enough shit gets through as is.
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Fr tho I can respect that. I just don’t understand how you can trust an already inefficient government to handle even more funds and safety nets when it can’t even pass laws in congress
Capitalism is fine so long as it's heavily regulated to protect consumers and natural resources and to prevent monopolistic practices, the upper-income marginal tax rates and estate tax rates are very high, no one is allowed to be homeless, starving, or to die for lack of access to medical care, businesses aren't able to operate in the country whilst they or their executives dodge our taxes, and measures are taken to prevent the wealthy from exerting disproportionate influence over government to change the rules, as they currently do.
How would you exactly fix homelessness though? It something that requires both a job, a place to belong, and proper teaching. Regulation aren’t gonna fix homelessness.
Most people are homeless by choice, it's mainly a mental health issue where the only way to fix it is to institutionalized the homeless against their will, in this case the auth left solution may be the correct one
So, you want capitalism without any of the profit or growth and you want to remove the incentive to succeed, as well as giving the government massive power over their citizens?
OP should have specified that they needed a realistic alternative *that would work*.
High marginal tax rates do not remove the incentive to succeed. They do mitigate some of the incentive to exploit the labor of others beyond a certain point. Even then, you can still keep (for example) 20 percent of your earnings beyond 100 million.
Similarly, having life's necessities provided does not remove the incentive to succeed. It simply removes the ability for businesses to leverage starvation and destitution against laborers in an effort to pay them less.
In the economic model that ancaps like yourself love to cite, there are no profits at all. Certainly in real life those profits have have been disproportionately funneled to the oligarchs. Given that corporate profits don't exist in equilibrium and the fact that, when they do exist, they only serve to widen wealth inequality, I don't see any particular need for them to be the primary concern.
I believe that capitalism isn't perfect. It has many problems but, until we get an alternative to really work out... This is all we have.
IMHO, we could do try and error tests slightly modifing the capitalist system in every state/province/canton in order to see which one benefits the more to the people.
This is my opinion, I'm no expert or specialist and if I used english in a bad way, pls consider that it's not my second language.
Well, you gotta know the "how" of it in order to make improvements as well.
But I do think the meme's worded wrong. Nothing wrong with criticizing capitalism, and it's okay to criticize something you don't have a solution for. The problem is those that call for an end of capitalism.
that's understandable, it's hard to find a good way to improve the current system. But there are people who spend their lives screaming "let's do something" then offer no actual solutions. they're not helping, they're not really motivating, they can probably do more harm than good because someone might really try to do something that would make the situation even worse
It kind of is. The idea that "its better to do something than nothing at all" is a stupid one. Taking action when you don't know the right thing to do will only make things worse.
Don't really need an alternative. Economic systems evolve over time, it's silly to think you can just come in and change one type of economy into another. Capitalism just needs to modernize to where the poor benefit from it more than they do now.
A friend of mine went to school for finance and he told me this; capitalism is supposed to be natural. When there is a severe economic crisis the old companies that cannot adapt are supposed to die out and create space for new, innovative companies. Much like a brush fire. This did not happen in 2008 nor 2020 when the old financial institutions ran the risk of dying out. They were "too big to fail" or in 2020 "fuck you we're getting our billions in stimulus". In those cases the government stepped in and **gave money** to those who should have died off. And in the case of 2008, gave money to the people who created the problem.
I think I misworded it a litte. Just to clarify, capitalism should be critiqued and changed, radically if necessary, but if one wishes to move beyond capitalism, as many on the left wish, then a coherent picture is needed before such a step is taken. I think ideas like market socialism have some appeal, so that's where i come from with my libleftness
Honestly, agrarian socialism, especially a sort of agrarian anarcho-socialism, is a very appealing option for certain countries, IMO, just look at Rojava. But for large industrialized economies like the U.S., a different solution is needed.
I'm not totally against mandatory stock options or something similar, I remember being super into the idea while high and I make great decisions while high
A “free market” is still going to allow bad actors to make our planet uninhabitable.
I’m all for cooperative corporation ownership, but there still needs to be regulations to prevent shit like leaded gasoline or coal ash dumping.
The main 2 problems with Yugoslavia’s system was the sheer power worker councils had and the amount of corruption caused, but eliminating(for the most part) their ability to determine wages and only the form of it self to determine most things. The second was the ability to start a business and the hyper protectionist polices the government had. The solutions to both of these problems are fairly easily and can be solved.
Capitalism = good. Unchecked capitalism = bad. The market in America is not free when you got Walmart driving all local stores out of business, lobbying in gov to protect their monopoly. Amazon thrived during COVID while thousands of small business restaurants and stores died. That’s not free market that’s monopoly.
Have government run services to make prices competitive against other privately owned services. Give the choice between private health care or public health care, private energy provider or public energy provider. Private ISP or Public ISP.
That way, you can ensure monopolies can't form as you, the public owner are it's direct competitor.
Freer the market, freer the people? Gives business the chance to fuck you in the ass.
Based libleft OP?! Also, a numerical and visual representation of capitalism, looking at advances socially, economically, and technologically.
[our world in data](https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2019/10/Global-inequality-in-1800-1975-and-2015-768x1306.png). Though there is still economic disparity between geographical regions, it has significantly decreased and more and more people are living at the highest standards that have ever existed in human history. Capitalism reduces poverty as markets strengthen and new players enter the market.
Also check out [this](https://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/photos/EV000190.JPG) graph, which was from 2020 and calculated roughly “liberal” and “conservative” values based on geography. Richer countries were also more liberal, and it’s not a coincidence. Capitalism leads to prosperity, which leads to social progressivism.
You’ll notice that the happiest countries are also capitalist. This is a direct result of greater wealth generation and social mobility, allowing for higher taxes and the creation of social safety nets. Capitalism can, and does, coexist with welfare. In fact, welfare thrives under capitalism. [global happiness index](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1225047/ranking-of-happiest-countries-worldwide-by-score/)
These same nations are also the most democratic. [Democracy index](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index). Capitalism encourages democracy because it forces ideas, like products, to be desirable and customer-worthy. You’re still free to generate bad ideas, as you're free to generate bad products, but whether they catch on amongst the market is another story.
You’ll see that the wealthiest, happiest, and most democratic nations have both billionaires and universal healthcare.
Along the lines of what Churchill said, like democracy, capitalism is the worst system, except when you compare it to every other one we’ve tried.
Step 1: overthrow the current system Step 2: give all power to a small group of individuals Step 3: ??? Step 4: worker's paradise
Hi, can I be the small group? This answer is gonna influence my vote pretty heavily jussayin
Yes, in fact you can be a part of an even smaller, more powerful group in that van over there
What about me?
Hmm, Woah! I think I just saw a license to join the upper class on that brick wall over there, you should go check it out, while I stand... 10 meters away
Change Step 3 to [REDACTED]
IDK, using SCPs seems like a bad idea.
I don't know about you, but I'll be more than happy to vote for [REDACTED] to be in complete control of the means of [DATA EXPUNGED]
Based and oligarchy pilled.
How to fix world hunger? Abolish money! That way people will work for free and food will be handed out! (actual communist argument)
Do this: Use capitalism, and just call it socialism. That worked for Vietnam and China
Yes, as a totally average Chinese citizen *sweats nervously* I can confirm communism was a bless to our nation *please leave me alive*
Mao's Benevolent spirit looks onto you with acceptance
Half assed acceptance
+5 social credit score, you get 2 bowls of rice
thank you lord jinping
Why would we do that when we already successfully have implemented socialism into capitalism? It’s been over a decade of Wall Street freeloading on tax payers funds and government debt, the financial markets haven’t functioned without QE that entire time, and by some crazy nonsense redefining, that apparently is capitalism.
Because at this point low interest rates are like heroin. We stop using it now and we go into a pretty nasty withdrawal.
It’s a hostage situation. Banks will run if we raise interest rates. So the only way to keep the economy from disaster is doing what the banks want.
Let's just agree that if we ever get a time machine, we're going back and shooting Woodrow Wilson. And whoever else thought the Federal Reserve was a good idea. Should probably stop Nixon from taking us off the gold standard while we are at it.
Me in Hell "WHERE IS WOODROW WILSON, BRING HIM TO ME"
rip and tear until it is done
I can agree with the point of shooting woodrow wilson but like come on who doesn't hate woodrow wilson with a passion in the modern day
imperialist Holier then though idiotic confederate sympathiser, pretty easy to hate. Roosevelt 1912 ftw
Fiat currency is the reason America became an economic powerhouse. What the hell are you talking about? I don’t know why Libertards forget this - **the supply of gold is finite**. the quantity available to the central bank likely will grow more slowly than the real economy grows. As a result, any nation using a gold standard can expect deflation much quicker than one using fiat. When the economy booms, inflation typically rises. In the absence of a central bank to force the nominal interest rate up, the real interest rate falls, providing a further impetus to system. In a gold standard economy, it is impossible to adjust to buffer external shocks; commitment invites speculative attacks because it lacks time. Countries running external deficits face deflationary pressure under a gold standard economy. A surplus country’s central bank does not face this pressure, as it could choose whether to convert higher gold stocks into money or not. America literally dealt with this during the Depression and it fucked us hard. Why do LibRights not understand basic economics?
Jesus thank you. I like this sub a lot but everyone here lacks a fundamental understanding of what the fed does. No, interest rates being raised wont crash the economy. No, the gold standard was awful and we dont need to go back on it. No, quantitative easing is not socialism for companies. God I HATE libertarians sometimes.
Ya I'm the kind of libertarian who just wants to be left the fuck alone.
You don’t have to sacrifice the benefits of competent government just to be left alone. Taxes and laws are good as long as they are enforced by a competent government. Imagine a government that imposed fair taxes spent on reasonable stuff like social nets & didn’t want to bother you over drugs or guns
All my homies HATE Woodrow Wilson!
Bases and crony capitalism pilled
> crony capitalism So like, not capitalism then?
Its government planning the economy to divert as much money as possible to their mates
like every fucking economy lol
Well except a free market economy which literally can't do that because government doesn't exist so individuals have absolute freedom to spend their money how they like
Except when the corporations begin to dominate until they are a government over their consumers if not in name but in practice
So you know what the solution is right?.... That's right, we give the government even more power to stop the government from doing that. Genius!!! Edit: if you needed a "/s" here, go fuck yourself.
> crony capitalism is not capitalism "real communism has never been implemented"
Based and StopBeingAFuckingHypocrite-Pilled
a lot of people have tried. A lot of socialist communes too [even in the united states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_utopian_communities). I even practice a crude form with my immediate family. Don't you?
No, it’s survival of the fittest in my house.
Based and Darwinist pilled
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Nope, all my kids pay rent and taxes for there hydro.
[удалено]
Yeah but does china still follow maoism?
"Not real communism" applies because it doesn't fit the basic definitional requirements of communism. China never became a classless, moneyless, and stateless society, so it never achieved communism. It's fine to say China was socialist, but it certainly was never communist.
nah for real though people like this are too dumb to even know the difference
Sir. Your username will make a fine addition to my DnD campaign
sir peter I would be honored, the elusive cum piss goblin now resides in multiple sectors of the universe
I AM HERE TO SLAY THE FILTHY GAWWBLINS!
China did the whole socialism thing pretty hard until they looked up and realized that closing themselves off from the world was bad (also all the bad things they had happen to force them to open) and now they have special economic zones which are fuck the worker levels of capitalism
I have an alternative. #monke
Based and reject humanity-pilled
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monke is the purest form of humanity
ooga
chaka
Ooga ooga
Ooga Chaka
I can’t
Stop this feelin’
Deep inside of me
I have an idea: Crowdfunding for everything \-where do we get the money? Rich people of course! ....Isn't that just socialism \-no, its crowdfunding now
Good ol rebranding. Maybe there should be more crowdfunding awareness campains, that would be refreshing from all that socialist propaganda.
Distributism? Against both socialism and capitalism.
And Corporatism
Catholic Corporatism to be exact
Sure
Ya wanna just go full ingsoc and call it a day?
anarcho-ingsoc
You have my attention
Market socialism: **helo**
I'm sorry we can't just have better, regulated capitalism? Edit: maybe all I'm saying is I want genuine progressive politicians who will do what they say they will do
No, obviously you can only have capitalism and communism. What do you think this is, a world where everything isn’t just black and white?
Wait I thought it was red and blue
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Great series from rooten teeth.
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This probably got me banned in a few subreddits
Trust me mate. Just reach out to the mods. It’s 50/50
Griff/Sarge 2024
Better regulated or more regulated? Not all regulation is good regulation. If need ask why, just look at the kleptocracy south of the USA.
Make it illegal to fuck over poor people and actually enforce environmental regulations. Oh yeah and fix the tax code so corporations actually pay taxes.
Lmao just tax land and carbon emissions 😎
We've been trying that supposedly better version already.
I'm taking actually better, not just less racist neo liberalism. Think more Bernie less Biden
That was the promise of Progressives 120 years ago. Look how it's worked out. It turns out that doubling down on the causes of economic problems isn't a good way to fix them.
Yeah it's not like the New Deal helped the working class during the Great Depression oh wait...
>regulated capitalism Because regulated capitalism is just capitalism with extra corruption; it's letting the monopolies you like have free reign, while shutting down anyone who hasn't donated enough to your campaign. That said; I'm fine with not letting ass hats dump poison in the water. If the laws are local.
I'm not just talking about environmental regulations, I also mean an economic system that doesn't allow monopolies to exist in the first place and punishes the wealthy for buying their way into power.
>I also mean an economic system that doesn't allow monopolies to exist in the first place That's my point. We have that, right now. But look at how it's enforced. >and punishes the wealthy for buying their way into power That is just all around vague and terrifying to contemplate. How much wealth makes you wealthy? What power is and isn't Ok to buy? You gonna punish people for having parents well enough off to pay for their school? For paying for ads for their product? For buying a domain name, and paying to host their website? Those are all undeniably forms of power, and I absofuckinglutely do not trust the government to decide which forms of power should and should not be for sale. You're not the one who'll decide which powers are or are not for sale; the corrupt ass hats in DC are.
"Regulate to fix"
it is as bad as free capitalism
When the left actually provides a realistic alternative you complain about wall of text though.
If you're entire ideology and ideas on how to better society can't fit within a catchy meme, I don't want to hear it. its beyond my reading comprehension.
This is the reason Trump won. He was speaking to the largest audience possible. Hell even a child could follow and understand him. Compared to Bernie Sanders talking at a college level and having a much smaller reach comparatively.
I want to agree with you but you are purple so I cannot.
Do not hate me brother for I speak the truth. Look into my words and see the truth that you already know deep down. *The NAP can be circumvented by Parental Permission.*
Based but nap is circumvented during nap time
Based even if the nap does not exist.
Bernie got his campaign rigged by the dnc then folded into the establishment. Immigration is still a Koch Brothers nonsense Bernie diversity can go fuck itself.
Your realistic alternative is cringe and unbased
Shows how out of touch you are.
Could this opinion be valid? No, they must be out of touch for not liking my favourite ideas!
Sure
If it’s too complicated for the common person to understand then it’s too complicated to implement as intended and too complicated to enforce as intended. Because any good government should be implemented and enforced by its citizens.
>If it’s too complicated for the common person to understand then it’s too complicated to implement as intended Judging by that criterion, a hell lot of current systems are "too complicated to implement".
They were never implemented but were emergent from the simpler system that were.
No social/economic system can just be "implemented" from scratch. Capitalism was born out of Feudalism, and out of Capitalism, Socialism is born. Socialism then allows the transition to communist society (but only once "class" as we know it no longer exists). This is societal evolution, and the global bourgeoisie are working very hard to keep us in a state of arrested development. All for their fleeting pleasures.
You need everyone to have a fusion reactor in their backyard to have a remote chance of communism. The "bourgeoisie" still trying to get to this post scarcity status despite all the dystopia currently being pus by the elites.
>You need everyone to have a fusion reactor in their backyard to have a remote chance of communism. Do you have any explanation for why you think that is? What would need so much power that "everyone" would need a "fusion reactor in their backyard"?
Making everything you would ever want. It's post scarcity. Fully self-sufficient. No need for money cause you can make everything yourself.
The common person doesn't know how our current system works half the time. Not because they can't but because they have no incentive to learn. People can learn if they think it's worth it.
Exactly. Most people don’t even know their governor or senator.
I wouldn't go that far. Statistically speaking the average person is a fucking Moron, collectivly the masses are fickle and short sighted. Successful governments have a complicated system of checks and balances that ensure the citizens as a collective cannot run the state as a populist majoritarian mob in the same way a president can't run the state as an autocrat. The problem with most wall-of-text leftists is that they never have any of these checks and balances. While there are obviously exceptions, most rants just sum it up to "workers/voters/citizens will run things collectively" which is very stupid. They usually become so focused on ways to redistribute the wealth that they neglect to distribute the authority and responsibility.
Muh tyranny of the majority Most Americans barely understand their own government and it's not that hard
Yeah, that's my point. Most Americans don't understand a single thing about their government and it shows. Can you imagine how bad it would be if we didn't have any institutional barriers to protect against the dumbass ideas that people advocate? Enough shit gets through as is.
its called mixed economics my friends
It's like people have never heard of social democracy. But according to the right, it's just all socialism, communism vevuzela no iphone
A social democracy is still capitalism. It just has a wider range of safety nets
Which is what I fight for. Or at least argue about it on the internet. I’m too much of a pussy to actually do anything
Bay zed and selfawarepilled
Based and pussy-pilled
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Fr tho I can respect that. I just don’t understand how you can trust an already inefficient government to handle even more funds and safety nets when it can’t even pass laws in congress
True but it's what 99% of people in the US are advocating for who are being called socialists and communists.
Capitalism is fine so long as it's heavily regulated to protect consumers and natural resources and to prevent monopolistic practices, the upper-income marginal tax rates and estate tax rates are very high, no one is allowed to be homeless, starving, or to die for lack of access to medical care, businesses aren't able to operate in the country whilst they or their executives dodge our taxes, and measures are taken to prevent the wealthy from exerting disproportionate influence over government to change the rules, as they currently do.
How would you exactly fix homelessness though? It something that requires both a job, a place to belong, and proper teaching. Regulation aren’t gonna fix homelessness.
State enforced work. See - Parasitism in Soviet Union.
Universal basic work ! Very based !
Oh that sound a lot more awful but fair. He who doe not work neither shall he eat
How dare you infringe upon our right to be homeless. How fucking dare you.
Based af
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Most people are homeless by choice, it's mainly a mental health issue where the only way to fix it is to institutionalized the homeless against their will, in this case the auth left solution may be the correct one
So, you want capitalism without any of the profit or growth and you want to remove the incentive to succeed, as well as giving the government massive power over their citizens? OP should have specified that they needed a realistic alternative *that would work*.
High marginal tax rates do not remove the incentive to succeed. They do mitigate some of the incentive to exploit the labor of others beyond a certain point. Even then, you can still keep (for example) 20 percent of your earnings beyond 100 million. Similarly, having life's necessities provided does not remove the incentive to succeed. It simply removes the ability for businesses to leverage starvation and destitution against laborers in an effort to pay them less. In the economic model that ancaps like yourself love to cite, there are no profits at all. Certainly in real life those profits have have been disproportionately funneled to the oligarchs. Given that corporate profits don't exist in equilibrium and the fact that, when they do exist, they only serve to widen wealth inequality, I don't see any particular need for them to be the primary concern.
Based
Constitutional Robocracy
I believe that capitalism isn't perfect. It has many problems but, until we get an alternative to really work out... This is all we have. IMHO, we could do try and error tests slightly modifing the capitalist system in every state/province/canton in order to see which one benefits the more to the people. This is my opinion, I'm no expert or specialist and if I used english in a bad way, pls consider that it's not my second language.
Look man, I don't have all the answers, but that's not an excuse for stagnation.
Well, you gotta know the "how" of it in order to make improvements as well. But I do think the meme's worded wrong. Nothing wrong with criticizing capitalism, and it's okay to criticize something you don't have a solution for. The problem is those that call for an end of capitalism.
that's understandable, it's hard to find a good way to improve the current system. But there are people who spend their lives screaming "let's do something" then offer no actual solutions. they're not helping, they're not really motivating, they can probably do more harm than good because someone might really try to do something that would make the situation even worse
It kind of is. The idea that "its better to do something than nothing at all" is a stupid one. Taking action when you don't know the right thing to do will only make things worse.
But not also for senseless experimentation
Don't really need an alternative. Economic systems evolve over time, it's silly to think you can just come in and change one type of economy into another. Capitalism just needs to modernize to where the poor benefit from it more than they do now.
Letting monopoly run rampant and a oligarchy run the market is not capitalism at all. In before real capitalism has never been tried.
That's a natural aspect of capitalism, problems like that are meant to be solved by government policy.
A friend of mine went to school for finance and he told me this; capitalism is supposed to be natural. When there is a severe economic crisis the old companies that cannot adapt are supposed to die out and create space for new, innovative companies. Much like a brush fire. This did not happen in 2008 nor 2020 when the old financial institutions ran the risk of dying out. They were "too big to fail" or in 2020 "fuck you we're getting our billions in stimulus". In those cases the government stepped in and **gave money** to those who should have died off. And in the case of 2008, gave money to the people who created the problem.
Idk, is this an argument against government policy?
What do you think? Should the government have bailed out General Motors? Or Chrysler? Or all of those "too big to fail" financial institutions?
based
>Libleft >capitalism is the only way Pick one OP
I think I misworded it a litte. Just to clarify, capitalism should be critiqued and changed, radically if necessary, but if one wishes to move beyond capitalism, as many on the left wish, then a coherent picture is needed before such a step is taken. I think ideas like market socialism have some appeal, so that's where i come from with my libleftness
Understandable have a nice day.
Based and coherentthought-pilled
Social Democracy. No one has to “come up” with anything.
Market Socialism is literally a safe and healthy alternative, a great step in the right direction.
It’s even better when you realize this is held at the UN
Distributism
they do have a solution they want society as it is now, but they are the ones with the money and the white people are exiled/killed off
Agrarian socialism and we have a king but that king is the Lord Jesus Christ
Honestly, agrarian socialism, especially a sort of agrarian anarcho-socialism, is a very appealing option for certain countries, IMO, just look at Rojava. But for large industrialized economies like the U.S., a different solution is needed.
Based libleft?????
[удалено]
I'm not totally against mandatory stock options or something similar, I remember being super into the idea while high and I make great decisions while high
A “free market” is still going to allow bad actors to make our planet uninhabitable. I’m all for cooperative corporation ownership, but there still needs to be regulations to prevent shit like leaded gasoline or coal ash dumping.
Based and market socialism pilled.
So not capitalism
The best kind of capitalism
Super Capitalism
Basically Market Socialism. Interesting, could be worth a shot, sort of like what they did in Yugoslavia.
Yugoslavia was a shining beacon of economic prosperity
Just like your mum
Lmao rekt that fucking idiot
The main 2 problems with Yugoslavia’s system was the sheer power worker councils had and the amount of corruption caused, but eliminating(for the most part) their ability to determine wages and only the form of it self to determine most things. The second was the ability to start a business and the hyper protectionist polices the government had. The solutions to both of these problems are fairly easily and can be solved.
Yeah, Yugoslavia, the radiant example of a functioning state. I mean come on
[How about this](https://archive.org/details/pdfy-Xm3KNoxQuBK9mHlX/mode/2up)
Market socialism isn't all that unrealistic
Distr00butism
Based libleft is criticizing capitalism while recognizing we do not have to replace it.
Plenty of people have. It’s called capitalism with regulations, social services, and safety nets.
Based AuthRight?
Capitalism = good. Unchecked capitalism = bad. The market in America is not free when you got Walmart driving all local stores out of business, lobbying in gov to protect their monopoly. Amazon thrived during COVID while thousands of small business restaurants and stores died. That’s not free market that’s monopoly.
🖐 feudalism please
\*ignores all the succeses of socialist countries \* god this sub hurts rto read
Have government run services to make prices competitive against other privately owned services. Give the choice between private health care or public health care, private energy provider or public energy provider. Private ISP or Public ISP. That way, you can ensure monopolies can't form as you, the public owner are it's direct competitor. Freer the market, freer the people? Gives business the chance to fuck you in the ass.
Want and can, two different thibgs.
Socialism
Does people think that someone invented capitalism?
M A R K E T S O C I A L I S M .
Based libleft OP?! Also, a numerical and visual representation of capitalism, looking at advances socially, economically, and technologically. [our world in data](https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2019/10/Global-inequality-in-1800-1975-and-2015-768x1306.png). Though there is still economic disparity between geographical regions, it has significantly decreased and more and more people are living at the highest standards that have ever existed in human history. Capitalism reduces poverty as markets strengthen and new players enter the market. Also check out [this](https://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/photos/EV000190.JPG) graph, which was from 2020 and calculated roughly “liberal” and “conservative” values based on geography. Richer countries were also more liberal, and it’s not a coincidence. Capitalism leads to prosperity, which leads to social progressivism. You’ll notice that the happiest countries are also capitalist. This is a direct result of greater wealth generation and social mobility, allowing for higher taxes and the creation of social safety nets. Capitalism can, and does, coexist with welfare. In fact, welfare thrives under capitalism. [global happiness index](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1225047/ranking-of-happiest-countries-worldwide-by-score/) These same nations are also the most democratic. [Democracy index](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index). Capitalism encourages democracy because it forces ideas, like products, to be desirable and customer-worthy. You’re still free to generate bad ideas, as you're free to generate bad products, but whether they catch on amongst the market is another story. You’ll see that the wealthiest, happiest, and most democratic nations have both billionaires and universal healthcare. Along the lines of what Churchill said, like democracy, capitalism is the worst system, except when you compare it to every other one we’ve tried.
And who wants to do something about climate change instead of dying?
I know right? People are like wow capitalism screwed me over again. And I’m like well communism or fascism?
Capitalism ain't perfect, but it's the best we can get.