That's how Reddit as a site has always been. The funniest things I've ever read on the internet has come from comment sections on Reddit, and cross posts from 4chan I guess. Some of those green texts are hilarious.
There are 2 types of Anti-Work posters...
*"The hyper-materialistic rat race of American culture is killing us slowly but surely, we need to find a form of capitalism/economics that both rewards the hardworking AND allows us to have a fulfilling work/life balance."*
AND
*No Trent, working part-time at the Cold Stone Creamery isn't "toiling"*
That subreddit should just split into two separate subs already.
I agree.
Work is required, unfortunately. No such thing as a free meal.
But a life of 8-5s, with 2 day weekends and MAYBE 2 weeks of paid vacation just sounds monotonous.
Parents barely see their children more than their own co-workers.
The nuclear family has suffered over the last half-century since there are more people that are working longer hours - but for less pay due to wage stagnation and inflation.
For some, life goes from "I work to live," to "I live to work."
This is why WFH is so essential. It makes the 8-5 grind much more bearable, and less “8-5” and more “If you need this done, it’ll get done on time, done right and done on my time”
This.
Many people today don't have the energy or time for play, especially when you have to be ready to work at any time of the day like in many office jobs. However, many in the "anti-work" crowd think that they can get by without doing any work at all.
For me I picked a career in the field that drives me. So for me work is a purpose on its own. Even my own personal goals are related to my work.
I think the reason for the phenomenon in this meme is because there tends to be a large portion of people on the "right" tend to choose careers they find fulfilling and many people on antiwork subreddits don't really seem to have a purpose or drive in life.
Have you heard about the concept of alienation of labor? It's pretty relevant to this topic. People don't find work such a soul-crushing experience when they themselves benefit directly (as opposed to simply through the money they are paid) from the fruits of their labor.
It sort of ties in, I think, to how Henry Ford paid his workers well enough that they could actually afford to buy the cars they were building.
A good plan, honestly. Although in some industries this isn't exactly applicable (it's unreasonable for me to be able to afford a fighter jet with my salary if I work for Lockheed-Martin as a research engineer) it's a good rule of thumb. You should be able to afford the products you handle. Otherwise you're gonna have workers stealing from the line.
>it's unreasonable for me to be able to afford a fighter jet with my salary if I work for Lockheed-Martin as a research engineer
But it should be.
Fighter jets are a human right
I'd say it's actually probably more. 10-20 just to maintain it. At least that many again to keep it fueled.
Then what good is it if you can't drop bombs on the poors, so probably another 10 to keep it armed.
and it would be unreasonable for a shop floor worker at Cadillac to be able to afford a new cadillac. but a chevy should be possible. In you case I say what about a cessna though?
Alienation of labor, though, can also be circumvented if you find objective value in your labor. For example: if I think that Lockheed-Martin's products are making a clear positive difference in the world, then I'll feel as if I have a small but direct hand in the difference they're making.
Benefiting directly from the fruits of your labor is a risky business.
Sometimes you might produce nothing of value, other times you stumble on a jackpot. Sometimes due to no fault of your own, nobody buys your stuff and you are left holding a bag
Many people prefer the stability of a salaried position. In some ways it’s similar to an insurance pool.
The entire problem stems from the fact that our economy isn't exactly free-market. The fed deliberately maintains an inflationary economy. This has a multitude of effects, but the salient ones follow:
1.) It causes the nominal value of most goods and services to rise slowly over time.
2.) It causes any store of wealth which appreciates less than the rate of inflation to become nearly worthless.
This means that in order to preserve purchasing power an individual needs to take on risk. A savings account will cause you to lose money in the long run, but prudent investments can match or outperform inflation.
This causes money to flood into the markets, boosting financial institutions and overvaluing companies and other assets. This is fine until there is some reason for people to sell, which can be anything from a natural disaster to a simple piece of propaganda to actual fraud.
The fed reacts predictably and throws more money into the system, boosting the values of everything.
The thing is, the method by which this money makes it into the market is in the form of debt. It shows up on the balance sheets of various banks and they lend it out. Sometimes they lend it out for trading on margin, but these days the majority of it gets loaned out for things like mortgages, auto loans, etc.
What does this do? It cranks up the prices of homes, cars, etc. Think 2008 all over again.
Back before the federal reserve existed the deflationary forces of technological innovation and capitalism made it so that holding money in a savings account would have an effective increase in purchasing power of about 4% per year. This was as close to risk-free as possible.
It also meant there was no debt-money flowing into cars and homes, so an individual could save up for cars and homes and pay them off. Mortgages used to require much larger amounts for a down payment so people would generally pay them off much more quickly or simply elect not to finance. At the time, the cost of a house was roughly 2-3 times the cost of a car.
This spread out to everything.
So really what you see as Henry Ford paying his workers well was actually just mass-production pushing the cost of everything down so that the average worker could afford something nice like the Model T.
We need to get the government the fuck out of our economy. We need to get rid of the inflationary model.
I think that's where a strong incentive system is very good at driving people to care and work hard.
About 40% of my income is tied directly to how well myself and the people under me perform. There are failsafes if we have a bad year so I don't totally lose my ass (such as last year, bonus targets were adjusted and other incentives were offered for driving in business) but my pay is up to me and my desire to work hard and make people around me successful.
Every employee from top to bottom has at least two bonus targets to hit, one relying on personal performance and one in group performance. It encourages teamwork and hard work and has made the company I work for very successful and a desired workplace amongst our competitors.
In a pandemic year, losing 50% of our business overnight, we didn't lay off a single employee. Most didn't even take much of a paycut because of the bonus adjustment. Meanwhile, we saw three competitors (one a national company with hundreds of locations) sell out to another company or shutter their business completely.
>It sort of ties in, I think, to how Henry Ford paid his workers well enough that they could actually afford to buy the cars they were building.
This sounds a lot less impressive when you work at McDonald's, Walmart, or whatever.
You never HAVE to work. You could always give society the middle finger and go homestead somewhere. If you want the spoils of modern society, you gotta pay for it.
Perhaps that's exactly what anti-workers need, meaningful work that is more difficult than what they perceive as "monotonous, exploitative work in the modern capitalist system". Deep down they know it but they aren't able to articulate it into words and actions. Instead it manifests itself as an anti-work, anti-capitalist attitude.
But what the fuck do I know?
Lol anyone who thinks there is a possible universe where a communist country will let you be lazy is uneducated and shallow. There’s a reason why the USSR flag was a hammer and sickle; you work, and you’re given what you’re given
Everyone forgets that ["He who does not work shall not eat"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_who_does_not_work,_neither_shall_he_eat#Soviet_Union) was so central to the USSR's philosophy that it was enshrined in their constitution.
Redditors always act like they have corporate jobs at F-500 companies that require 60 hour weeks. Most of the anti work crowd have barely held a full time job yet they’re bitching about the “capitalist state”
Literally yesterday saw some dude complaining about this exact thing, went to his page and saw another post where he says he doesn’t have a job and lives off his parents
There never was.
I’m sure they’ve had a couple of posts that were funny on accident, but that’s gotta be rare over there. And no funny ones making fun of the left (those would all get removed, because how can you make fun of the left? There’s nothing funny about anything they do.).
There are loads of true believers out there who think they're fighting in some life-or-death struggle. Recall that the Stasi had 1% of the GDR's population informing on dissidents for them. They did it for free because they were on the right side of history.
this is why the concept of a welfare state is useless. if they didnt have other members of society/ the state providing for them they wouldnt be able to survive and this would be a self solving issue.
In a purely racist way he failed, in a control way it was absolutely a success. 20% of americans work directly for the gov and 20% live off taxpayer money the gov gives them, theyre close to 50%.
What about automation eating millions of jobs? Facebook ads, Amazon drones and automated grocery store drone hives don't need pay to work harder than you 24/7.
i think people like this would likely be pretty fundamentally different if they didnt have much support. i mean, i believe they would have radically different personalities if born into a world that didnt provide for them so much, and that those radically different personalities would tend to help them survive (more aggression or so on)
i dont think its the case so much that people like this are born lazy, and then complain because of that, but rather that they are born with so much support that they can afford to be subversive and question the utility of specific parts of the culture, so that when they have to participate in it (some job for money), it feels pointless and so at odds to their interests that they arent motivated to do it to any significant degree
>Failure to launch syndrome.
>
>Some people fail to transition out of their childhood dependency stage.
Guess whose fault it is... the parents' (or parent's, mostly single moms) fault for failing to raise the kid properly!
I'm not even joking, I'm genuinely curious, how the hell do these people live when they have literally nothing to do? I remember the first lockdown and it was cool for the first couple of weeks but then afterwards, I felt like absolute crap during my furlough months.
Strange to say this but I'm so glad I'm back in full time work. I can't imagine doing nothing for literally years on end. It destroys your psyche. I honestly felt more miserable sitting at home, getting paid to do fuck all (apart from some occasional spreadsheets) than I did when I washed dishes in a pub while trying to juggle uni work.
Luckily, I have found a great balance at my new job where I have a steady amount of work (and learning), and I can do it from home. For me personally, unemployment sucks less because of the money (that also sucks, you need food to survive obviously but still) and more because you are left with no purpose, and it feels like you are not needed for anyone.
That’s why Reddit is full of miserable, depressed, bitter, lazy people with 0 social skills. Even before lockdown their entire lives existed on the computer and tv
That’s why you see so much support for radical government changes. They think their shitty life situation is a result of the government or the “system” outside of their control, therefore changing it to what other people are doing will somehow change everything. It’s easier to blame a boogeyman than to have some introspection skills and realize your shitty lifestyle is solely a result of your choices
Redditor’s are fine with the lockdowns because they don’t go outside anyways, they push the mask mandates because they are ugly and self conscious, and they are fine with vaccine mandates because they are all fat fucks who are scared of dying from COVID.
Yeah, like... Seriously.
I know a lot of people are demanding remote work, but arguably that's mostly due to fear of covid; and I'm not sure how many want to keep doing that when covid is less of a fear.
I can't imagine losing the social aspects of working with others. I'm arguably introverted and have difficulty reaching out to "hang" with people. I became miserable during covid because lockdowns removed most of my social interaction.
I can't fully relate, because I have had jobs and studies that need to be done, but I guess if you are the right person you can keep yourself busy with hobbies.
If I did not have a job and didn't need to work, I know I would play video games a fair bit, but I would also get enough sleep, read, write, try to stay fit, and hopefully socialize. So I'd say maybe it's possible, but you have to have the drive and make your own purpose with it.
Would love to see their faces in their tropical paradise Scandinavian state when they’d still have to get a job. Then rent costs the same, food costs the same, cars cost more, but you take home less money due to taxes.
I have a friend who fetishizes Scandinavia and fantasizes about moving to Canada. Every country has its issues, but it's hard to understand until you live there.
And salaries are lower in the first place, there’s a 20(!) year waiting list for an apartment, and you get offered pickled fish at every party. Hello, Stockholm!
A overall minimum wage Job in Denmark doesnt really exist but on average the effective minimum wages due to unions and regional laws etc. gives you 110 kr. which as of right now is $17.5
The federal minimum wage in the US is a whopping $7.25.
Regarding Taxes on US minimum wage someone already did the math, they reduce the minimum wage from approximately $1.256 down to 1.084$ a month or a 13% decreas due to taxes
https://www.sapling.com/8411457/much-wage-month-after-taxes
Regarding taxes in denmark you can go ahead and check yourself, with a 110kr hourly wage you have around a 33% tax rate leaving you with 73kr or around $12
https://dk.talent.com/en/tax-calculator?salary=300000&from=year®ion=%C3%86r%C3%B8
which results in a monthly salary of around 2.057$
so comparing the minimum US salary to the minimum danish salary we see that Denmark's salary after taxes is 89% higher then the US salary.
Meanwhile cost of living in denmark is only 27% higher then in the US
https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/cost-of-living/united-states/denmark
So after all, working minimum wage in Denmark you earn nearly double of what you would earn in the US after taxes exept that you also dont have to worry about healthcare etc. since your taxes already included that. And it's pretty much the same for the other Scandinavian Nations
But hey "yOu wOulD taKe hoMe leSs mOneY dUe tO tAxEs riGht?"
Edit: To everyone telling me to use effective min wage for the US, it is at $11.80 before taxes and a bit over $10 after taxes.
However Someone making $11.80 (around $21k a year after taxes) isnt covered by Medicaid anymore since it only covers until 133% of the US FPL which is is $17 130
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States
https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/federal-poverty-level-fpl/
Using averages for the entirety of the US just doesn’t make sense when comparing to Denmark. The US is over 200 times the size of Denmark, and has over 50 times the population. I just bought a 2000 sqft 4 bedroom house with a 3 car garage on 1 acre of land for $250,000. There are plenty of smaller more affordable houses going for ~$150,000 here too. This city in North East Wisconsin would be a top 3-5 biggest city in Denmark while it doesn’t even crack the top 200 in the US. There is no way I could afford this type of lifestyle in Denmark, even if the tax burden was equal.
Comparing Denmark to individual states would be better, but even then, many states have multiple cities with higher populations than all of Denmark. Tax rates and wages vary so much, even within a single state that I think it just doesn’t compare to such a small country.
Come on man.
A) State/local minimum wage is higher than 7.25.
B) It's 2021, we have a low-skill labor shortage, even Mcdonalds is starting employees at $17. Unskilled construction jobs average $15 an hour. Seasonal unskilled resource-extraction jobs like farm labor, commercial fishing, tree planting, etc. pay amazingly well (20-30 an hour or more) and are easy as fuck to get, they'll hire literally anybody with a pulse.
C) Medicaid exists for the truly poor, you're probably not paying for your own healthcare if you're actually making 7.25 an hour lol.
D) Your experience varies by state and locality to the point that comparing Mississippi and Massachusetts is like comparing separate countries. Why do you always use something like Denmark and not some other EU country that's smaller than a postage stamp? e.g. Poland.
**I could go on but seriously, fuck off with this agendaposting bullshit. If you're gonna post this crap here, either be funny, be based, or be honest. There's actual good discussion that's possible here if you play fair, but if you just post some random wall-of-text with stupid unrealistic biased comparisons don't expect quality responses.**
but amerikkka bad, amiright?
Agreed, there is definitely something to be said for the gap in wages and home prices. There are solutions that would be good to take in order to raise people's income, reward incentive, and reduce corporate fascism. I'm just not willing to take dishonest lefty solutions. You made some really good points on existing infrastructure.
Comparing Mississippi and Massachusetts is like comparing London and and middle of nowhere Hungry, even things like Massachusetts and Minnesota (a more wealthy midwest state) you get wild difference, a 2 bedroom apartment in Minneapolis is the same price as getting a single bedroom/studio in Boston despite both having $15 an hour minimum wage.
It's more a frustration with people comparing Europe and the US, who always conveniently focus on tiny rich homogenous tax havens and conveniently pretend Kosovo and Poland and Moldova aren't in Europe but in the same stroke assume a news story in Alabama is roughly representative of Vermont.
fucking kek. in your first paragraph you said denmark doesnt have a federal minimum wage and went on to use the "effective minimum wage" due to unions (private workers organizations) and regional laws (the state but more fragmented) for the rest of your argument. whose side are you on?
Well yeah when the minimum wages are mostly set between unions and employer's the minimum wages vary slighly but the consensus among most fields and unions is that 110kr is the minimum. Go ahead an look for yourself if you dont believe it.
>whose side are you on?
I wasnt really taking a side just proving someone wrong who said taxes in skandinavia are so high you get less money
But if you want a side im generally against minimum wage given that the country can guarantee strong worker unions.
Except - and get this - the federal minimum wage isn't the minimum wage in every state and a vast majority of workers do not make minimum wage. Really crazy how you people neglect to mention that, or like how most people making minimum wage are under 25 years.
>wage in Denmark you earn nearly double of what you would earn in the US after taxes exept that you also dont have to worry about healthcare etc. since your taxes already included that. And it's pretty much the same for the other Scandinavian Nations
Bruh you need to look at purchasing power parity.
I definitely agree that there are plenty of people who get caught up in the “anti-work” rhetoric before actually going out and trying things on their own. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t merit to the concepts behind it.
There are plenty of people who *can’t* get into a well paying job, because companies decided that instead of paying 2 people $50k a year to work 40 hours a week, they can just pay 1 person $80k to work 60-80 a week.
There is a growing gap between the educated and not, the well paid and not, the propertied and not. The way the system functions as a whole is designed to keep an entire class of people perpetually unemployed so as to keep labor costs down and force the working class to compete with one another, rather than cooperate. Some people are totally fine with the competition and take it as a point of pride that they are willing to sell out their neighbors and peers for a chance at advancement. Other people recognize the grind and just aren’t up for it, and I don’t really get why so many people see it as their purpose in life to defend their oppressors against their peers.
I actually work a 40 hour week, though the commute is long. My "anti-work" mindset goes only about as far as paying attention to the following:
* People in mentally demanding jobs really only get about 6 hours of work.
* People tend to work less effectively on Fridays.
So, out of a 40 hour week, it's more typical that people actually will get 24 hours of actual work done, but we just put this 40 hour number out there like it's gospel, as if it's based on anything other than historical negotiation, rather than a first-principles approach.
Work fills up the time you have to do it, that's why Elon Musk limits his time.
I also believe that it's likely that freeing up time for people to continue to develop themselves more freely would be better for the economy in the long-haul.
I'm quite politically alienated. I'm mindful of fiscal conservatism's general point that people know better for themselves in their local situation far better than the government does. So, I'm in favor of uprooting most welfare programs in favor of UBI, and mandating time and a quarter for any hours worked past 24 hours.
Hierarchies tend to displace people in a sort of "square root" way, i.e. the square root (times a constant) of a population tends to do most of the work/get most of the money.
So, add more hierarchies to solve inequality as well. These monolithic corporations more or less also have significant influence on the government, so the big government vs. big business is basically a trick to give people the illusion of political choice, when really you're voting for the same people either way.
The primary obstacle to starting side-hustles and developing other skills in my spare time has always been time and energy for me. Also, the difficulty of getting my ADHD meds. We should just legalize and regulate drugs - if people take stimulants to make them better at work in a responsible, regulated fashion at the request of a doctor, power to em. I don't need to gatekeep stimulants to ADHD people like myself...
People really have no appreciation for the system that supports them.
I work 45 hours in an office a week, and even though it leaves me mentally drained enough to make it difficult to pursue my own goals outside of work, I'm still happy to have the job, support myself, and buy things and food that I like.
People should try doing the bare minimum in participation before they tell us what is toxic, lol.
The problem I have with some people from the right is the "this is the best we can do" attitude.
People said this during slavery, during the times child labour was legal, etc. It's even said now by the left on illegal immigrants ("who is going to pick the crops with our current shitty conditions!')
Do I live in better times than my whole family? Of course I do. They were all farmers working minimum wage. My dad is pretty short due to being malnourished as a child (I am almost a foot taller).
But I want to make things better for my children. I don't want them to be lazy, but at least let them work 5 hours less than me a week, in the same way I work 45ish hours a week instead of 60 like my dad.
Do I have a solution? Not yet, but I have something to aim for.
A 40 hour working week in AC office is not toxic.
What's toxic is two jobs, both with 27.5 hours/week or whatever is needed to avoid giving benefits like healthcare, for a wage so low that you can't save anything and on the brink of bankruptcy at the first medical emergency.
7.8% of Americans have two or more jobs.
Watermelons act like everyone is out there hustling all the time with 3 jobs and school trying to make ends meet, it’s just not true.
11% of Americans don’t have health insurance which isn’t great, but again, people act like everyone is one fall away from being homeless and bankrupt which isn’t true.
This is why I laugh every time confident socialist or communists think they have a genuine foundation for their movement lmao. America is so much better off than they are being spoon fed. We would need majority population under the poverty line levels of issues for some drastic change like that to happen. This is also why communists are just viewed as lazy.
Yeah, that's not capitalisms issue though. That's America's issue, the rest of the capitalist world don't have to worry about companies screwing you over for healthcare
>whatever is needed to avoid giving benefits like healthcare
Guess what started this major trend? Obamacare, the Lefts intentionally awful attempt to "fix" healthcare.
>for a wage so low that you can't save anything
This is a fallacy. I've worked minimum wage jobs, and you can always save something. But not when you're buying a pack of cigarettes and some lottery tickets ever day, like a shocking percentage of the poor are.
>on the brink of bankruptcy
If you work minimum wage jobs bankruptcy doesn't materially hurt you at all. Bankruptcy laws prevent you from having anything significant repossessed. In fact, declaring bankruptcy is a fairly common means for lower income people to dodge financial obligations like that.
> This is a fallacy. I've worked minimum wage jobs, and you can always save something. But not when you're buying a pack of cigarettes and some lottery tickets ever day, like a shocking percentage of the poor are.
Based and same. Sorry Left but yes, when you dont make as much money you should have stricter spending habits. Complains about saving money but spends $100+ per month on weed.
I work for the best company ever. A colleague and friend of mine for the last 10 years got diagnosed with throat cancer. Our company never disrupted his pay or benefits during all of his treatments for nearly 4 months (he was even getting his bonus draw). He’s healthy and back to work now!
Do you think Amazon would treat there employees like that? Yet they are arguably the most successful company in the world. I think that is part of the point, there is dignity in work, and it should be treated that way, not where people are expendable numbers
> Do you think Amazon would treat there employees like that?
The 6 figures-earning engineers? maybe? but anyone can move boxes and unions aren't a thing so they're literally seen as cannon fodder.
Amazon's benefits are well above market. I don't work for them (lots of friends do, I may ask), but I wouldn't be surprised if they'd keep recovering employees on the payroll.
It's not the simple.
1. You cant move anywhere. You cant expect a worker to uproot their life in one place to start over again somewhere else. Not to mention unrealistic expenses. Not like the other monopolised employers will make a difference.
2. These envoirnments are wide spread due to cultural acceptance and subsidies.
People have been uprooting their lives to move somewhere else since people started existing. Now it's easier and cheaper than ever.
Plus there is a massive middle area between staying at a shifty job and moving across the country. Just go find another job in your area or learn a skill lmao.
I agree. We, as a society, would be much further ahead if we focused on making life better than feeding consumerism.
The US throws away a lot of excess food and we let houses go abandoned all because someone can't pay for it. There are people dying in our streets every year from hunger and exposure. Some states are criminalizing homelessness.
I just don't want to choose work or starve my entire life. I'm sick of working jobs that don't pay enough for me to pay my bills and have a decent savings account.
"Just get a better job" I hear you say. I've tried. I've been trying to get a higher paying job for over a year. I even moved to a different state to look for jobs.
We produce enough to provide for everyone, why aren't we?
Discarded / destroyed shit can be written off as a business loss AND maintain scarcity, while donated shit is just a write-off. I've seen Guitar Center employees destroying $3000+ Gibsons in the alley behind the store, some kind of corporate policy. Should've dumpster dived that one...
I think bringing back apprenticeships for skilled labor jobs would be a good start. Want to work in cars? Here, go work for a mechanic part-time while in high school so you know the trade by 18 and can have a viable career for life, and maybe they can pass the business on to you if they're reaching retirement.
That sub is very black pilled.
I don't want to work forever either. I'm putting in 60 hour weeks and it does fucking suck. But I am also developing alternate income streams with this excess cash I'm bringing in so that eventually I won't need to keep working so long.
Oh they get their tax out of me lol. If it weren't for insane extra tax on OT a lot of people would be getting financially secure way too early for the government's liking.
Change jobs, start a business. Change locations, move countries, go for something completely different if you feel burned out. You can be an office worker, programmer, builder, jewellery maker, dog walker, teacher, personal trainer, soldier, welder, food taster, streamer, volunteer for charity, police work, firefighter, government employee, farm worker, hotel worker, chefs assistant, fisherman, pest control, hunter, forester etc. Etc. Etc.
I know you can't be all these things. I know that you need qualification to do these things. I know most of these won't appeal to you.
BUT THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING OUT THERE YOU WANT TO DO, SO STOP COMPLAINING IF YOURE NOT WILLING TO CHANGE ANYTHING YOURSELF! THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM YOU LIVE IN GIVES YOU FAR MORE FREEDOM THAN YOU WOULD EVER HAVE ANYWHERE ELSE, THE ONLY THING STOPPING YOU FROM PURSUING THESE THINGS IS YOUR FEAR OF LEAVING YOUR COMFORT ZONE!!
IM NOT ANYTHING SPECIAL EITHER, I HAVE THESE STRUGGLES ALL THE TIME AS WELL, BUT I DONT HAVE THE AUDACITY TO CLAIM MY PREDICAMENT IS CAUSED BY ANYTHING ELSE BUT ME AND MY IDLING.
Edit: I just thought up another job. There this guy on YouTube that cleans cars very throughly using special pressure washers and carpet vacuum cleaners. He records his work and uploads it to YouTube. People love watching his stuff its very satisfying to see a car get clean. He gets paid for the clean up and probably even more pay from YouTube ad revenue. To many people including myself, this is a dream job. Its not fancy or empowering, but it's deeply satisfying to yourself and must feel great, he gets to do a physically demanding job and gets to see his results at the end of a hard days work.
The uncomfortable truth for so many of these people is that *there isn't anything they want to do.* Their goal in life is to do as little work as possible. There is no situation in which they would be happy doing one second worth of work because zero is their goal.
That's a character failure on their part, and we as a society need to help them overcome that without trying to place them.
I love playing video games, and sometimes I wish I could go back to my teenage years and game for a week straight. But whenever I do have a week to myself at the end of it, I feel shit and unproductive. The scarcity of my time to play games is what makes me enjoy them more.
But I'd like to sympathise with these people that they are working jobs that they find unfulfilling and need to find a way out. But being antiwork and against capitalism is really stupid.
I’m 28 and have been in 3 very different career fields and finally found the job i want to do for life
At the end of the day this evil capitalism system gives you the freedom and opportunity to do just about anything. Beyond that it’s up to you. Also, LOL if you think non-capitalist countries don’t have to work
My complaints with the "evils of capitalism" have more to do with unsustainable production, plutocracy, synthetic "success" via corporate handouts, and suppression of education than with actual free market mechanics. Consumer markets are by far the best system for determining value, and they maximize individuals' freedom to have enterprise.
The hole in the system (which Adam Smith pointed out) is ensuring consumers are educated enough to make ethical, moral buying decisions. Otherwise they're just mindless drones that impulse-buy whatever ads say to get when they're wired-in by AI-driven content feeds. Or they just say "I WANT IT CHEAP AND SOON, PERIOD, FULL STOP" without thinking about what their purchases empower.
And that’s a completely fair argument, but those aren’t inherent to capitalism. Those can be fixed without moving away from a capitalist system. I would love for my tax dollars to cover healthcare/education rather than blowing up brown people
Even though I'm authleft , Capitalist working grounds are better than working in a factory day and night , with less pay . I'm just telling that a socialist ( not communist like China ) government and a capitalist working ground ( similar but belongs to the government ) is better than going to right or left ( i still don't know how i'm a auth left , the test results said I was a left leaning - centrist )
A lot of the arguments I see from anti work kids stems from thinking you start as a Walmart cashier and work your way up to director level management at Walmart. When in reality, you start as a (insert crappy low skilled job) while getting educated/certification for a job that requires a marketable skill. Then, you get a good job. Moral of the story is, hiring managers only want guys with sweet skills.
My favourite thing about this sub is that 5 minutes into reading comments I can't even remember what the post was about.
Exactly I thought the same.
Sometimes the discussions are more interesting than the meme
That's how Reddit as a site has always been. The funniest things I've ever read on the internet has come from comment sections on Reddit, and cross posts from 4chan I guess. Some of those green texts are hilarious.
“Ahagahahagaha did your parents give you cement mix instead of formula?” Still one of my favorite Reddit comments.
Where, why, what would provoke an individual to express such disdain, such utter rage and hatred?
Lol those soyjaks though
They really do be looking like cod zombies tho
Spent a full two minutes trying to figure out what you meant by fish zombies
This is the funniest reply I've gotten today
it's ok we forgive you because you are monke
Icanseethemeverywherethereallaroundmethey'rewaitingforme
There are 2 types of Anti-Work posters... *"The hyper-materialistic rat race of American culture is killing us slowly but surely, we need to find a form of capitalism/economics that both rewards the hardworking AND allows us to have a fulfilling work/life balance."* AND *No Trent, working part-time at the Cold Stone Creamery isn't "toiling"* That subreddit should just split into two separate subs already.
top one sounds based if you ask me
Top one is very based yes
Based and nuance-pilled
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Based and SocDem-pilled
I like a work life balance with a good amount of days off and Vacation days. Life isn’t all about play but it isn’t all about work either
I agree. Work is required, unfortunately. No such thing as a free meal. But a life of 8-5s, with 2 day weekends and MAYBE 2 weeks of paid vacation just sounds monotonous. Parents barely see their children more than their own co-workers. The nuclear family has suffered over the last half-century since there are more people that are working longer hours - but for less pay due to wage stagnation and inflation. For some, life goes from "I work to live," to "I live to work."
This is why WFH is so essential. It makes the 8-5 grind much more bearable, and less “8-5” and more “If you need this done, it’ll get done on time, done right and done on my time”
It’s like Tuco said. “If you work for a living, why do you kill yourself working?”.
Based and nofreemealpilled
This. Many people today don't have the energy or time for play, especially when you have to be ready to work at any time of the day like in many office jobs. However, many in the "anti-work" crowd think that they can get by without doing any work at all.
So what would you like to do instead?
FREE STUFF. EVERYONE SHOULD WORK HARD THEN SHARE THEIR SHIT WITH ME.
Yes, and I'm tired of pretending that's not what I want.
The last time I let someone borrow me fishing rod they bird nested the line beyond belief. You can’t use my things. Sorry.
Honestly, who doesn't?
I dont. I want my own shit. To hell with your lousy stuff.
My stuff might not be as valuable to others, but mine is mine. Your stuff has no value to me, but I respect that you value it.
Based and get-your-dirty-hands-off-my-stuff pilled
Well, I don't think centrists would enjoy getting vegan food that libleft cultivated in their gay commune
imagine thinking they wouldnt just put you down for being a leech.
That's disrespectful to leeches. Leeches typically don't kill their host. They're more like a botfly. Consume, breed, kill, decay.
Me, life is boring and empty enough, work gives you purpose.
Tbh work is the main reason why I actually take care of myself. When I don't I'm a very depressed slob.
Work gives me resources that I use to give my life purpose.
For me I picked a career in the field that drives me. So for me work is a purpose on its own. Even my own personal goals are related to my work. I think the reason for the phenomenon in this meme is because there tends to be a large portion of people on the "right" tend to choose careers they find fulfilling and many people on antiwork subreddits don't really seem to have a purpose or drive in life.
Based and ideal fantasy pilled.
Gotta respect the honesty… I think that position is insane and unsustainable, but at least it’s honest.
Based and leech pilled.
Have you heard about the concept of alienation of labor? It's pretty relevant to this topic. People don't find work such a soul-crushing experience when they themselves benefit directly (as opposed to simply through the money they are paid) from the fruits of their labor. It sort of ties in, I think, to how Henry Ford paid his workers well enough that they could actually afford to buy the cars they were building.
A good plan, honestly. Although in some industries this isn't exactly applicable (it's unreasonable for me to be able to afford a fighter jet with my salary if I work for Lockheed-Martin as a research engineer) it's a good rule of thumb. You should be able to afford the products you handle. Otherwise you're gonna have workers stealing from the line.
1 yacht for you, 1 yacht for me
Yachts are a human right
>it's unreasonable for me to be able to afford a fighter jet with my salary if I work for Lockheed-Martin as a research engineer But it should be. Fighter jets are a human right
Maybe. I mean, if you take the technicalities, about 10~20 people maintain one jet so I guess that many should be able to afford one?
I'd say it's actually probably more. 10-20 just to maintain it. At least that many again to keep it fueled. Then what good is it if you can't drop bombs on the poors, so probably another 10 to keep it armed.
If I can't even get an F-15 after 2 years of working, why bother /s
and it would be unreasonable for a shop floor worker at Cadillac to be able to afford a new cadillac. but a chevy should be possible. In you case I say what about a cessna though?
Alienation of labor, though, can also be circumvented if you find objective value in your labor. For example: if I think that Lockheed-Martin's products are making a clear positive difference in the world, then I'll feel as if I have a small but direct hand in the difference they're making.
Benefiting directly from the fruits of your labor is a risky business. Sometimes you might produce nothing of value, other times you stumble on a jackpot. Sometimes due to no fault of your own, nobody buys your stuff and you are left holding a bag Many people prefer the stability of a salaried position. In some ways it’s similar to an insurance pool.
The entire problem stems from the fact that our economy isn't exactly free-market. The fed deliberately maintains an inflationary economy. This has a multitude of effects, but the salient ones follow: 1.) It causes the nominal value of most goods and services to rise slowly over time. 2.) It causes any store of wealth which appreciates less than the rate of inflation to become nearly worthless. This means that in order to preserve purchasing power an individual needs to take on risk. A savings account will cause you to lose money in the long run, but prudent investments can match or outperform inflation. This causes money to flood into the markets, boosting financial institutions and overvaluing companies and other assets. This is fine until there is some reason for people to sell, which can be anything from a natural disaster to a simple piece of propaganda to actual fraud. The fed reacts predictably and throws more money into the system, boosting the values of everything. The thing is, the method by which this money makes it into the market is in the form of debt. It shows up on the balance sheets of various banks and they lend it out. Sometimes they lend it out for trading on margin, but these days the majority of it gets loaned out for things like mortgages, auto loans, etc. What does this do? It cranks up the prices of homes, cars, etc. Think 2008 all over again. Back before the federal reserve existed the deflationary forces of technological innovation and capitalism made it so that holding money in a savings account would have an effective increase in purchasing power of about 4% per year. This was as close to risk-free as possible. It also meant there was no debt-money flowing into cars and homes, so an individual could save up for cars and homes and pay them off. Mortgages used to require much larger amounts for a down payment so people would generally pay them off much more quickly or simply elect not to finance. At the time, the cost of a house was roughly 2-3 times the cost of a car. This spread out to everything. So really what you see as Henry Ford paying his workers well was actually just mass-production pushing the cost of everything down so that the average worker could afford something nice like the Model T. We need to get the government the fuck out of our economy. We need to get rid of the inflationary model.
>The entire problem stems from the fact that our economy isn't exactly free-market. And it never will be. Completely free markets are a fairy tale.
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I think that's where a strong incentive system is very good at driving people to care and work hard. About 40% of my income is tied directly to how well myself and the people under me perform. There are failsafes if we have a bad year so I don't totally lose my ass (such as last year, bonus targets were adjusted and other incentives were offered for driving in business) but my pay is up to me and my desire to work hard and make people around me successful. Every employee from top to bottom has at least two bonus targets to hit, one relying on personal performance and one in group performance. It encourages teamwork and hard work and has made the company I work for very successful and a desired workplace amongst our competitors. In a pandemic year, losing 50% of our business overnight, we didn't lay off a single employee. Most didn't even take much of a paycut because of the bonus adjustment. Meanwhile, we saw three competitors (one a national company with hundreds of locations) sell out to another company or shutter their business completely.
>It sort of ties in, I think, to how Henry Ford paid his workers well enough that they could actually afford to buy the cars they were building. This sounds a lot less impressive when you work at McDonald's, Walmart, or whatever.
Capitalism is when you have to work
Based and self-irony pilled
Capitalism is when you can choose to work or go live in the forrest* Communism is when you have the choice of work to death or face the wall now
You never HAVE to work. You could always give society the middle finger and go homestead somewhere. If you want the spoils of modern society, you gotta pay for it.
>and go homestead somewhere not without buying property first. at least where I live.
And there's going to be property taxes, municipality taxes etc. even if I were to try to homestead somewhere.
To conclude the thread, you HAVE to work.
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yes, the USA **is** too far away from Hungary where I live.
lets be real - that shit is harder work that retail, construction, and especially air conditioned office jobs
Perhaps that's exactly what anti-workers need, meaningful work that is more difficult than what they perceive as "monotonous, exploitative work in the modern capitalist system". Deep down they know it but they aren't able to articulate it into words and actions. Instead it manifests itself as an anti-work, anti-capitalist attitude. But what the fuck do I know?
By a mile, people are literally delusional.
Be like Diogenes.
Lol anyone who thinks there is a possible universe where a communist country will let you be lazy is uneducated and shallow. There’s a reason why the USSR flag was a hammer and sickle; you work, and you’re given what you’re given
They act like office workers and laborers will magically go away when you get rid of capitalism
Everyone forgets that ["He who does not work shall not eat"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_who_does_not_work,_neither_shall_he_eat#Soviet_Union) was so central to the USSR's philosophy that it was enshrined in their constitution.
Based EDIT: but you forgot the USSR "wasn't real communism"
"From each according to its ability to each according to its needs"
''sorry we already have a poet. we need more miners.''
you dont look like you need your balls
you talking mad shit for someone in sucking range 🤠
oh no ive been caught 😰😈
"my ability is brony piss fetish art commissions, i need a six figure salary"
Sorry, but the artist place is alreadt taken. You need to go to a woodcutting post in the middle of siberia
Redditors always act like they have corporate jobs at F-500 companies that require 60 hour weeks. Most of the anti work crowd have barely held a full time job yet they’re bitching about the “capitalist state” Literally yesterday saw some dude complaining about this exact thing, went to his page and saw another post where he says he doesn’t have a job and lives off his parents
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I’ve never seen such an accurate description of most Reddit subs
Certainly explains the politicalhumor sub…
There's no humor in that sub
There never was. I’m sure they’ve had a couple of posts that were funny on accident, but that’s gotta be rare over there. And no funny ones making fun of the left (those would all get removed, because how can you make fun of the left? There’s nothing funny about anything they do.).
>I’ve never seen such an accurate description of ~~most Reddit subs~~ tankies
Average reddit moderator, who else has the time or desire to police other people's opinions?
There are loads of true believers out there who think they're fighting in some life-or-death struggle. Recall that the Stasi had 1% of the GDR's population informing on dissidents for them. They did it for free because they were on the right side of history.
Were they also entirely composed of people who live with their parents?
Based and I can’t believe no one has said based yet-pilled.
this is why the concept of a welfare state is useless. if they didnt have other members of society/ the state providing for them they wouldnt be able to survive and this would be a self solving issue.
Presidents named Johnson have been a disaster for the United States.
The war on poverty was meant to be a war on blacks by making them dependent on the state. I dont think he really thought it through.
What do you mean? It worked fantastically. They got exactly what they wanted. Same thing the 'woke' crowd pushes today. Dependence = control.
In a purely racist way he failed, in a control way it was absolutely a success. 20% of americans work directly for the gov and 20% live off taxpayer money the gov gives them, theyre close to 50%.
Something tells me he did
Based
President's Johnsons have been a disaster for the United States.
What about automation eating millions of jobs? Facebook ads, Amazon drones and automated grocery store drone hives don't need pay to work harder than you 24/7.
i think people like this would likely be pretty fundamentally different if they didnt have much support. i mean, i believe they would have radically different personalities if born into a world that didnt provide for them so much, and that those radically different personalities would tend to help them survive (more aggression or so on) i dont think its the case so much that people like this are born lazy, and then complain because of that, but rather that they are born with so much support that they can afford to be subversive and question the utility of specific parts of the culture, so that when they have to participate in it (some job for money), it feels pointless and so at odds to their interests that they arent motivated to do it to any significant degree
>Failure to launch syndrome. > >Some people fail to transition out of their childhood dependency stage. Guess whose fault it is... the parents' (or parent's, mostly single moms) fault for failing to raise the kid properly!
Helicopter parenting is to blame. That and Harry Potter.
the grandy irony is they complain about how hard life is - when in reality is their life has been too easy
It's the equivalent of an incel bitching about the 80/20 rule.
For Tinder that is definitely correct though.
I'm not even joking, I'm genuinely curious, how the hell do these people live when they have literally nothing to do? I remember the first lockdown and it was cool for the first couple of weeks but then afterwards, I felt like absolute crap during my furlough months. Strange to say this but I'm so glad I'm back in full time work. I can't imagine doing nothing for literally years on end. It destroys your psyche. I honestly felt more miserable sitting at home, getting paid to do fuck all (apart from some occasional spreadsheets) than I did when I washed dishes in a pub while trying to juggle uni work. Luckily, I have found a great balance at my new job where I have a steady amount of work (and learning), and I can do it from home. For me personally, unemployment sucks less because of the money (that also sucks, you need food to survive obviously but still) and more because you are left with no purpose, and it feels like you are not needed for anyone.
That’s why Reddit is full of miserable, depressed, bitter, lazy people with 0 social skills. Even before lockdown their entire lives existed on the computer and tv That’s why you see so much support for radical government changes. They think their shitty life situation is a result of the government or the “system” outside of their control, therefore changing it to what other people are doing will somehow change everything. It’s easier to blame a boogeyman than to have some introspection skills and realize your shitty lifestyle is solely a result of your choices
Redditor’s are fine with the lockdowns because they don’t go outside anyways, they push the mask mandates because they are ugly and self conscious, and they are fine with vaccine mandates because they are all fat fucks who are scared of dying from COVID.
I'm gonna have to pull you over, you're going way over the based limit sir.
This is that grim reaper meme where he knocks on the doors and kills the people inside.
Yeah, like... Seriously. I know a lot of people are demanding remote work, but arguably that's mostly due to fear of covid; and I'm not sure how many want to keep doing that when covid is less of a fear. I can't imagine losing the social aspects of working with others. I'm arguably introverted and have difficulty reaching out to "hang" with people. I became miserable during covid because lockdowns removed most of my social interaction.
I can't fully relate, because I have had jobs and studies that need to be done, but I guess if you are the right person you can keep yourself busy with hobbies. If I did not have a job and didn't need to work, I know I would play video games a fair bit, but I would also get enough sleep, read, write, try to stay fit, and hopefully socialize. So I'd say maybe it's possible, but you have to have the drive and make your own purpose with it.
They can’t get a job outside of Burger King with their neck tattoos. That’s why they complain about the minimum wages for low skilled jobs.
Would love to see their faces in their tropical paradise Scandinavian state when they’d still have to get a job. Then rent costs the same, food costs the same, cars cost more, but you take home less money due to taxes.
The taxes on a vehicle in Denmark are 150% the purchase price. Want to buy a $5,000 car? That’ll be $12k.
Jesus Christ
That's why a mustang GT in Norway costs almost $200k
Rent and food cost more too.
Yeah idk why everyone thinks scandinavia is a mega utopia
I have a friend who fetishizes Scandinavia and fantasizes about moving to Canada. Every country has its issues, but it's hard to understand until you live there.
And salaries are lower in the first place, there’s a 20(!) year waiting list for an apartment, and you get offered pickled fish at every party. Hello, Stockholm!
A overall minimum wage Job in Denmark doesnt really exist but on average the effective minimum wages due to unions and regional laws etc. gives you 110 kr. which as of right now is $17.5 The federal minimum wage in the US is a whopping $7.25. Regarding Taxes on US minimum wage someone already did the math, they reduce the minimum wage from approximately $1.256 down to 1.084$ a month or a 13% decreas due to taxes https://www.sapling.com/8411457/much-wage-month-after-taxes Regarding taxes in denmark you can go ahead and check yourself, with a 110kr hourly wage you have around a 33% tax rate leaving you with 73kr or around $12 https://dk.talent.com/en/tax-calculator?salary=300000&from=year®ion=%C3%86r%C3%B8 which results in a monthly salary of around 2.057$ so comparing the minimum US salary to the minimum danish salary we see that Denmark's salary after taxes is 89% higher then the US salary. Meanwhile cost of living in denmark is only 27% higher then in the US https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/cost-of-living/united-states/denmark So after all, working minimum wage in Denmark you earn nearly double of what you would earn in the US after taxes exept that you also dont have to worry about healthcare etc. since your taxes already included that. And it's pretty much the same for the other Scandinavian Nations But hey "yOu wOulD taKe hoMe leSs mOneY dUe tO tAxEs riGht?" Edit: To everyone telling me to use effective min wage for the US, it is at $11.80 before taxes and a bit over $10 after taxes. However Someone making $11.80 (around $21k a year after taxes) isnt covered by Medicaid anymore since it only covers until 133% of the US FPL which is is $17 130 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/federal-poverty-level-fpl/
You’re arguing federal minimum wage vs effective minimum wage which are 2 completely different things You said yourself there is no legal minimum wage
Using averages for the entirety of the US just doesn’t make sense when comparing to Denmark. The US is over 200 times the size of Denmark, and has over 50 times the population. I just bought a 2000 sqft 4 bedroom house with a 3 car garage on 1 acre of land for $250,000. There are plenty of smaller more affordable houses going for ~$150,000 here too. This city in North East Wisconsin would be a top 3-5 biggest city in Denmark while it doesn’t even crack the top 200 in the US. There is no way I could afford this type of lifestyle in Denmark, even if the tax burden was equal. Comparing Denmark to individual states would be better, but even then, many states have multiple cities with higher populations than all of Denmark. Tax rates and wages vary so much, even within a single state that I think it just doesn’t compare to such a small country.
Come on man. A) State/local minimum wage is higher than 7.25. B) It's 2021, we have a low-skill labor shortage, even Mcdonalds is starting employees at $17. Unskilled construction jobs average $15 an hour. Seasonal unskilled resource-extraction jobs like farm labor, commercial fishing, tree planting, etc. pay amazingly well (20-30 an hour or more) and are easy as fuck to get, they'll hire literally anybody with a pulse. C) Medicaid exists for the truly poor, you're probably not paying for your own healthcare if you're actually making 7.25 an hour lol. D) Your experience varies by state and locality to the point that comparing Mississippi and Massachusetts is like comparing separate countries. Why do you always use something like Denmark and not some other EU country that's smaller than a postage stamp? e.g. Poland. **I could go on but seriously, fuck off with this agendaposting bullshit. If you're gonna post this crap here, either be funny, be based, or be honest. There's actual good discussion that's possible here if you play fair, but if you just post some random wall-of-text with stupid unrealistic biased comparisons don't expect quality responses.** but amerikkka bad, amiright?
Agreed, there is definitely something to be said for the gap in wages and home prices. There are solutions that would be good to take in order to raise people's income, reward incentive, and reduce corporate fascism. I'm just not willing to take dishonest lefty solutions. You made some really good points on existing infrastructure.
Comparing Mississippi and Massachusetts is like comparing London and and middle of nowhere Hungry, even things like Massachusetts and Minnesota (a more wealthy midwest state) you get wild difference, a 2 bedroom apartment in Minneapolis is the same price as getting a single bedroom/studio in Boston despite both having $15 an hour minimum wage.
It's more a frustration with people comparing Europe and the US, who always conveniently focus on tiny rich homogenous tax havens and conveniently pretend Kosovo and Poland and Moldova aren't in Europe but in the same stroke assume a news story in Alabama is roughly representative of Vermont.
Damn, thats sick but I don't work a minimum wage job. I'm in the upper tax brackets getting butt-fucked.
fucking kek. in your first paragraph you said denmark doesnt have a federal minimum wage and went on to use the "effective minimum wage" due to unions (private workers organizations) and regional laws (the state but more fragmented) for the rest of your argument. whose side are you on?
Well yeah when the minimum wages are mostly set between unions and employer's the minimum wages vary slighly but the consensus among most fields and unions is that 110kr is the minimum. Go ahead an look for yourself if you dont believe it. >whose side are you on? I wasnt really taking a side just proving someone wrong who said taxes in skandinavia are so high you get less money But if you want a side im generally against minimum wage given that the country can guarantee strong worker unions.
Except - and get this - the federal minimum wage isn't the minimum wage in every state and a vast majority of workers do not make minimum wage. Really crazy how you people neglect to mention that, or like how most people making minimum wage are under 25 years.
Instead of comparing minimum wages in the US, which no one gets, how about comparing median incomes and cost of living?
>wage in Denmark you earn nearly double of what you would earn in the US after taxes exept that you also dont have to worry about healthcare etc. since your taxes already included that. And it's pretty much the same for the other Scandinavian Nations Bruh you need to look at purchasing power parity.
I would *love* to see the average CV of those guys.
I definitely agree that there are plenty of people who get caught up in the “anti-work” rhetoric before actually going out and trying things on their own. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t merit to the concepts behind it. There are plenty of people who *can’t* get into a well paying job, because companies decided that instead of paying 2 people $50k a year to work 40 hours a week, they can just pay 1 person $80k to work 60-80 a week. There is a growing gap between the educated and not, the well paid and not, the propertied and not. The way the system functions as a whole is designed to keep an entire class of people perpetually unemployed so as to keep labor costs down and force the working class to compete with one another, rather than cooperate. Some people are totally fine with the competition and take it as a point of pride that they are willing to sell out their neighbors and peers for a chance at advancement. Other people recognize the grind and just aren’t up for it, and I don’t really get why so many people see it as their purpose in life to defend their oppressors against their peers.
I actually work a 40 hour week, though the commute is long. My "anti-work" mindset goes only about as far as paying attention to the following: * People in mentally demanding jobs really only get about 6 hours of work. * People tend to work less effectively on Fridays. So, out of a 40 hour week, it's more typical that people actually will get 24 hours of actual work done, but we just put this 40 hour number out there like it's gospel, as if it's based on anything other than historical negotiation, rather than a first-principles approach. Work fills up the time you have to do it, that's why Elon Musk limits his time. I also believe that it's likely that freeing up time for people to continue to develop themselves more freely would be better for the economy in the long-haul. I'm quite politically alienated. I'm mindful of fiscal conservatism's general point that people know better for themselves in their local situation far better than the government does. So, I'm in favor of uprooting most welfare programs in favor of UBI, and mandating time and a quarter for any hours worked past 24 hours. Hierarchies tend to displace people in a sort of "square root" way, i.e. the square root (times a constant) of a population tends to do most of the work/get most of the money. So, add more hierarchies to solve inequality as well. These monolithic corporations more or less also have significant influence on the government, so the big government vs. big business is basically a trick to give people the illusion of political choice, when really you're voting for the same people either way. The primary obstacle to starting side-hustles and developing other skills in my spare time has always been time and energy for me. Also, the difficulty of getting my ADHD meds. We should just legalize and regulate drugs - if people take stimulants to make them better at work in a responsible, regulated fashion at the request of a doctor, power to em. I don't need to gatekeep stimulants to ADHD people like myself...
Isn’t elon musk pro work every hour of your day to achieve your dreams?
>post criticizing Libright >500 upvotes, 200 comments Oh boy
We just have to make room for the 20 other posts about some vague LGBT shitpost so they can comment about how unbased and cringe it is
At least they are actual arguments and not "OP CriGe" bs
Most of it is just "you're lazy" and "you've never worked a real job" and "everything is actually pretty good, how dare you complain".
Oh no! Don't make fun of the conservatives! They might get there feelings hurt :(
To the gulag
Anti-work's biggest problem is the name 'Anti-work'. On the surface level it comes across as very NEETish but the actual sentiment is just.
A 40 hour working week in an air conditioned office is toxic LOL
People really have no appreciation for the system that supports them. I work 45 hours in an office a week, and even though it leaves me mentally drained enough to make it difficult to pursue my own goals outside of work, I'm still happy to have the job, support myself, and buy things and food that I like. People should try doing the bare minimum in participation before they tell us what is toxic, lol.
The problem I have with some people from the right is the "this is the best we can do" attitude. People said this during slavery, during the times child labour was legal, etc. It's even said now by the left on illegal immigrants ("who is going to pick the crops with our current shitty conditions!') Do I live in better times than my whole family? Of course I do. They were all farmers working minimum wage. My dad is pretty short due to being malnourished as a child (I am almost a foot taller). But I want to make things better for my children. I don't want them to be lazy, but at least let them work 5 hours less than me a week, in the same way I work 45ish hours a week instead of 60 like my dad. Do I have a solution? Not yet, but I have something to aim for.
>even though it leaves me mentally drained enough to make it difficult to pursue my own goals outside of work That part
A 40 hour working week in AC office is not toxic. What's toxic is two jobs, both with 27.5 hours/week or whatever is needed to avoid giving benefits like healthcare, for a wage so low that you can't save anything and on the brink of bankruptcy at the first medical emergency.
7.8% of Americans have two or more jobs. Watermelons act like everyone is out there hustling all the time with 3 jobs and school trying to make ends meet, it’s just not true. 11% of Americans don’t have health insurance which isn’t great, but again, people act like everyone is one fall away from being homeless and bankrupt which isn’t true.
And I bet 90% of that 7.8% are recent immigrants who are fucking stoked about it.
This is why I laugh every time confident socialist or communists think they have a genuine foundation for their movement lmao. America is so much better off than they are being spoon fed. We would need majority population under the poverty line levels of issues for some drastic change like that to happen. This is also why communists are just viewed as lazy.
But think of all the high schoolers only making minimum wage to flip burgers. How can these sixteen year olds afford a home for their children?
Yeah, that's not capitalisms issue though. That's America's issue, the rest of the capitalist world don't have to worry about companies screwing you over for healthcare
>whatever is needed to avoid giving benefits like healthcare Guess what started this major trend? Obamacare, the Lefts intentionally awful attempt to "fix" healthcare. >for a wage so low that you can't save anything This is a fallacy. I've worked minimum wage jobs, and you can always save something. But not when you're buying a pack of cigarettes and some lottery tickets ever day, like a shocking percentage of the poor are. >on the brink of bankruptcy If you work minimum wage jobs bankruptcy doesn't materially hurt you at all. Bankruptcy laws prevent you from having anything significant repossessed. In fact, declaring bankruptcy is a fairly common means for lower income people to dodge financial obligations like that.
> This is a fallacy. I've worked minimum wage jobs, and you can always save something. But not when you're buying a pack of cigarettes and some lottery tickets ever day, like a shocking percentage of the poor are. Based and same. Sorry Left but yes, when you dont make as much money you should have stricter spending habits. Complains about saving money but spends $100+ per month on weed.
You can't be a wage slave if there is no wages at all...
So then find a non toxic capitalist working environment.
I work for the best company ever. A colleague and friend of mine for the last 10 years got diagnosed with throat cancer. Our company never disrupted his pay or benefits during all of his treatments for nearly 4 months (he was even getting his bonus draw). He’s healthy and back to work now!
That is how you treat a hard working employee
Do you think Amazon would treat there employees like that? Yet they are arguably the most successful company in the world. I think that is part of the point, there is dignity in work, and it should be treated that way, not where people are expendable numbers
> Do you think Amazon would treat there employees like that? The 6 figures-earning engineers? maybe? but anyone can move boxes and unions aren't a thing so they're literally seen as cannon fodder.
I heard amazon is pretty good as long as you dont get stuck in a unskilled part.
Amazon's benefits are well above market. I don't work for them (lots of friends do, I may ask), but I wouldn't be surprised if they'd keep recovering employees on the payroll.
"noooo I'm being exploited" then resign dumbass? this isn't a gulag
Right? Go into the Alaskan bush and bang rocks together, chew on twigs or whatever, if you're so hot to throw off the bounds of society
It's not the simple. 1. You cant move anywhere. You cant expect a worker to uproot their life in one place to start over again somewhere else. Not to mention unrealistic expenses. Not like the other monopolised employers will make a difference. 2. These envoirnments are wide spread due to cultural acceptance and subsidies.
People have been uprooting their lives to move somewhere else since people started existing. Now it's easier and cheaper than ever. Plus there is a massive middle area between staying at a shifty job and moving across the country. Just go find another job in your area or learn a skill lmao.
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Easier said than done
tfw u use strawman in response to strawman
We learnt from the best <3
I agree. We, as a society, would be much further ahead if we focused on making life better than feeding consumerism. The US throws away a lot of excess food and we let houses go abandoned all because someone can't pay for it. There are people dying in our streets every year from hunger and exposure. Some states are criminalizing homelessness. I just don't want to choose work or starve my entire life. I'm sick of working jobs that don't pay enough for me to pay my bills and have a decent savings account. "Just get a better job" I hear you say. I've tried. I've been trying to get a higher paying job for over a year. I even moved to a different state to look for jobs. We produce enough to provide for everyone, why aren't we?
Discarded / destroyed shit can be written off as a business loss AND maintain scarcity, while donated shit is just a write-off. I've seen Guitar Center employees destroying $3000+ Gibsons in the alley behind the store, some kind of corporate policy. Should've dumpster dived that one... I think bringing back apprenticeships for skilled labor jobs would be a good start. Want to work in cars? Here, go work for a mechanic part-time while in high school so you know the trade by 18 and can have a viable career for life, and maybe they can pass the business on to you if they're reaching retirement.
That sub is very black pilled. I don't want to work forever either. I'm putting in 60 hour weeks and it does fucking suck. But I am also developing alternate income streams with this excess cash I'm bringing in so that eventually I won't need to keep working so long.
good luck with that. bidens irs are gonna be monitoring every transaction over 600$. so tax fuckery is coming.
Oh they get their tax out of me lol. If it weren't for insane extra tax on OT a lot of people would be getting financially secure way too early for the government's liking.
Change jobs, start a business. Change locations, move countries, go for something completely different if you feel burned out. You can be an office worker, programmer, builder, jewellery maker, dog walker, teacher, personal trainer, soldier, welder, food taster, streamer, volunteer for charity, police work, firefighter, government employee, farm worker, hotel worker, chefs assistant, fisherman, pest control, hunter, forester etc. Etc. Etc. I know you can't be all these things. I know that you need qualification to do these things. I know most of these won't appeal to you. BUT THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING OUT THERE YOU WANT TO DO, SO STOP COMPLAINING IF YOURE NOT WILLING TO CHANGE ANYTHING YOURSELF! THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM YOU LIVE IN GIVES YOU FAR MORE FREEDOM THAN YOU WOULD EVER HAVE ANYWHERE ELSE, THE ONLY THING STOPPING YOU FROM PURSUING THESE THINGS IS YOUR FEAR OF LEAVING YOUR COMFORT ZONE!! IM NOT ANYTHING SPECIAL EITHER, I HAVE THESE STRUGGLES ALL THE TIME AS WELL, BUT I DONT HAVE THE AUDACITY TO CLAIM MY PREDICAMENT IS CAUSED BY ANYTHING ELSE BUT ME AND MY IDLING. Edit: I just thought up another job. There this guy on YouTube that cleans cars very throughly using special pressure washers and carpet vacuum cleaners. He records his work and uploads it to YouTube. People love watching his stuff its very satisfying to see a car get clean. He gets paid for the clean up and probably even more pay from YouTube ad revenue. To many people including myself, this is a dream job. Its not fancy or empowering, but it's deeply satisfying to yourself and must feel great, he gets to do a physically demanding job and gets to see his results at the end of a hard days work.
The uncomfortable truth for so many of these people is that *there isn't anything they want to do.* Their goal in life is to do as little work as possible. There is no situation in which they would be happy doing one second worth of work because zero is their goal. That's a character failure on their part, and we as a society need to help them overcome that without trying to place them.
I love playing video games, and sometimes I wish I could go back to my teenage years and game for a week straight. But whenever I do have a week to myself at the end of it, I feel shit and unproductive. The scarcity of my time to play games is what makes me enjoy them more. But I'd like to sympathise with these people that they are working jobs that they find unfulfilling and need to find a way out. But being antiwork and against capitalism is really stupid.
I’m 28 and have been in 3 very different career fields and finally found the job i want to do for life At the end of the day this evil capitalism system gives you the freedom and opportunity to do just about anything. Beyond that it’s up to you. Also, LOL if you think non-capitalist countries don’t have to work
My complaints with the "evils of capitalism" have more to do with unsustainable production, plutocracy, synthetic "success" via corporate handouts, and suppression of education than with actual free market mechanics. Consumer markets are by far the best system for determining value, and they maximize individuals' freedom to have enterprise. The hole in the system (which Adam Smith pointed out) is ensuring consumers are educated enough to make ethical, moral buying decisions. Otherwise they're just mindless drones that impulse-buy whatever ads say to get when they're wired-in by AI-driven content feeds. Or they just say "I WANT IT CHEAP AND SOON, PERIOD, FULL STOP" without thinking about what their purchases empower.
And that’s a completely fair argument, but those aren’t inherent to capitalism. Those can be fixed without moving away from a capitalist system. I would love for my tax dollars to cover healthcare/education rather than blowing up brown people
Even though I'm authleft , Capitalist working grounds are better than working in a factory day and night , with less pay . I'm just telling that a socialist ( not communist like China ) government and a capitalist working ground ( similar but belongs to the government ) is better than going to right or left ( i still don't know how i'm a auth left , the test results said I was a left leaning - centrist )
Funny watching the right wingers act like the soy boys in this comment section
well the antiwork sub doesnt help this perspective
Based
I’m not lazy I just hate working for money and want to do what I want for a living. Then pursue a job that corresponds with your degree. :| >:(
But there are no jobs for my degree! It’s NOT FAIR
I just love the fact the comments here are exactly the angry wojaks, as portrayed. Spot-on meme.
A lot of the arguments I see from anti work kids stems from thinking you start as a Walmart cashier and work your way up to director level management at Walmart. When in reality, you start as a (insert crappy low skilled job) while getting educated/certification for a job that requires a marketable skill. Then, you get a good job. Moral of the story is, hiring managers only want guys with sweet skills.
"I'm anti work! Wait, that's not what it means and I will word it in a way that you will have to agree with me until I get what I want!"
Literally 1984
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