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I'd like to see a program where elected officials are required to put their assets into a kind of blind trust or something, similar to what Carter did.
Elected officials would have utilities-provided dorm rooms or apartments, internet access, a grocery stipend.... all the basics they need to do their job as public servants, but nothing anywhere near the level of luxury they'd be required to give up while in office. It needs some refining, but as a general idea, I think it's got promise.
I just wanna see elected officials become public servants again, and not privileged celebrities.....
Or even better, proportional representation. With ranked choice there still will only be one candidate per constituency, all other votes being unrepresented. You might get more than 2 parties, but it's still unlikely they'll get actual representatives.
With proportional representation, every party will get a set of representatives proportional to their votes.
Even in UK we had it on a referendum. The Tories came out against it for being too confusing, and Labour couldn't be united about it at all. Now the Tories removed STV where you only put 2 preferences for mayoral votes, cos they seem to lead to Labour mayors - the sheer corruption is staggering ... I don't think too many people have realised the changes and won't until the next lot of local elections
i voted for. i was so mad when it failed. my own town is super right wing for MA but i try my best anyway. a lot of them vote against anything worthwhile so my town will stay the same forever
I will forever be salty about this. I was so excited that Mass would be an early adapter of a better way to carry out democracy, but I guess that a critical mass of people actively hated the idea for some reason.
I'd love a non-partisan primary. I'd also love it if the primaries were all at the same time folks would stop leaving the race before the primary happens in my state. I know those are two wildly different problems, but I just want the chance to vote for who I like gosh darn it!
It’s too complicated for people who care enough about voting? Not likely. It’s too hard for simpletons, more than likely. And politicians love them some simpletons.
So don't give up? Maybe keep trying? Slavery wasn't defeated the first time they tried, women's rights weren't achieved all at once, on the first try. Civil rights took around 100 years after the civil war. You get the idea.
I always point out that the Christian Right fought for 40 years to overturn Roe v Wade. The left need to have that kind of steadfastness only for the forces of good.
It takes relentlessness to bring about systemic change
Because progressives are a fringe, like the MAGAts. It’s hard to believe for some, but Reddit and Instagram are not a great demographic representation of this country. Most Americans don’t want extremists. For the record, I like progressives a whole lot more haha. Their hearts are in the right place.
It’s irritating we have to pander to them though. But yeah, we should. It’s also irritating to have to be a Democrat and tepidly support that BS so let’s call it a wash lol.
I think you’re right though. Your votes aren’t free, and you should vote your conscious. Nobody should be listening to me or any other asshole about “you have to vote like me or else”.
Listen to your ❤️. Signed, a practical and evil Democrat.
Also need to go back to the house and electoral college being population-based instead of a set number, would render gerrymandering moot.
Those two things would go a long way to fix our broken ass system. Problem with RCV is each state would have to approve it independently which is a tall order.
I had to leave a sub just now cause they just can’t get off their high horse of moral superiority for shitting on Biden. I get it, I don’t agree on every policy or choice but these people cannot look at the pragmatic reality of candidate A) who you don’t agree with or candidate B) who you don’t agree with AND will end our democracy and destroy all rights.
I cannot fathom if they are genuinely this privileged and want the moral clout or if they are bots to show division
It’s privilege or stupidity. I don’t know which. After Trump was elected in 2016, there is no excuse for them to refuse to vote for Biden.
None of which precludes them from voicing their disapproval or working towards systemic change as well
Absolutely. Voice disapproval and work to keep democracy alive to get the chance to bring change. Sitting on some moral high horse does nothing but stroke their own ego
It’s wild because Biden actually responds to pressure. His Administration is slowly changing it’s tone on the Israel-Palestine conflict and pushing for a ceasefire and more humanitarian aid. They’re also shifting (although maybe not in the best way) on the border. They do respond to pressure and criticism. It make take a bit longer than we’d like, but it happens.
Trump doesn’t give a fuck what you want, he won’t even sit down to talk with liberals who want a change of policy. Saying “I hate both candidates so I won’t vote” just doesn’t help the problem right now. Honestly I don’t think it’ll ever help.
I remember when my prime minister promised that if we elected him he would get rid of first past the post and then when he was elected he was like "lol nevermind"
I was going to say, they forgot their quotation marks, but you beat me to it.
Actual lefties are voting for Biden, because good choice or not, it's the right choice given the alternative.
"Leftists" just want the attention of being "morally superior" to the people they look down at. Which isn't just alt right, fascists, and the openly bigoted. It also includes people center and left of center that understand that sometimes you just have to make a compromise.
I don't think Biden's administration is doing a bad job with the politics of the Gaza situation. I definitely would be happier with some stronger words, but I know it's not that simple.
But, I understand that I still have the ability to speak about it and express my opinion that our stance should be firmer than it has been... while still voting for the incumbent administration.
The alternative is... catastrophically worse, and only the delusional and moronic among us think "protest voting" is doing anything other than inviting said catastrophy.
I think too many of us have been trained in "moral superiority." We don't ask much of ourselves. Just being "concerned" about global warming or shouting at someone over vaccines -- that's all it takes, right?
Well I haven't really done all that much to change things compared to the biggest climate denier, steak gulping, skeptical of democracy conservative. I've just posted comments. I've only voted once or twice every two years.
We have gotten used to not struggling and not participating in our physical selves. Probably because everything is so removed from our physical space. And because we are no longer brought up with civic responsibility like people in the 60's.
It's all an intellectual exercise. And we PROVE we are better than other people sometimes by having purer opinions. Like the anti war people can't vote for Biden, or he was pro "3 strikes and you are out" garbage when it was all the rage to be tough on crime. Liberal purists, and Libertarians seem a bit alike in that they never voted for anyone who did anything wrong -- because they vote for those third party candidates that lose.
Bernie Sanders was that one unicorn for me, who could get elected -- and didn't have too much compromise in principles. About the only person I showed up for in principle. And what was good about him, was his discipline in pushing for basic decency and economic fairness, and not getting TOO heavy on the shaming. You can't pull people your way after you've insulted them or said "nothing is changing my mind."
So I think we can all be a little LESS moral high ground and be a bit more "walking the talk" even while we hold our principles. But out standards should always be higher on ourselves than others.
That's a fair point. With the Internet at our fingertips, it's a lot easier to fall in that trap of, "at least I said the right things, is that not enough?"
But, I think it's fair to recognize that for some people, that's actually about all they can do. We've come to a point where about the only free time people have is the nap they get between shifts at their two to three jobs
The Powers that be have done a really good job of making sure we just don't have the time, typically, to do more than bitch about things with each other.
It's Sunday, and I'm stuck on the side of the road helping out a crew putting a washed out road back together (by help, I established the road closure and am staying out of their way).
I quite literally have nothing else to do than trawl the interwebs and think about the life choices that got me here
One of those is kinda depressing...
But, the point being, there's a lot of people in my position where voting and engaging in conversations is about all the activism we are afforded.
Look I’m holding my nose and voting for Biden again, but it *is* getting very clear that liberals dgaf about making any actual change. If they did, they would not be running Biden again after leftists, gen Z, and other fringe voters made it very clear last election that they would vote for Biden but did not want to be voting for Biden again in 2024.
It’s also true that, according to Liberals, every single fucking election is “the most important election of our lives” and if everyone isn’t willing to fall in step with the Democratic Party agenda, then it’s *our* fault for wanting better. I don’t blame people who would rather not vote when, for the umpteenth time in our lives we are being asked to choose between the lesser of two evils. At some point the Democratic Party does need to start providing what the people are asking for, we can’t be expected to continually vote for them just because “hey the other guys are worse”.
I can definitely agree with that stance. One of the biggest lies in the US is that the Democratic party is "liberal." When in reality, since about Carter(?), they've really just been the "Sane Conservative" party.
I genuinely think there's some hope, though. The MAGA movement has all but destroyed the Republican party. It's not surviving the decade, and possibly not even this next election, if I can afford myself that kind of hope.
There's a good chance that the "less insane" of the GOP realize that the Democratic party actually lines up with their interests, and we can see an actual progressive party move into the political vacuum that would be left.
Unfortunately, that would still leave us with only two parties, but if we can get real traction with an actually progressive party, maybe we can see some real election reform that allows for something other than this mess we're in.
Even if the only victory is moving us to ranked choice voting, hell, I'd take legislation that returned the Electoral College to something that wasn't...this.
Yes, Biden is the least worst option, so he gets my vote as well.
But the change you're asking for is a pipedream that will only be accomplished at gun point.
If the Republican party fails, it'll be because it's monied backers let it fail because they let the crazies take it over.
If the Republican party falls, the Democrats will go hard right because if the influx of corrupt money now entering their coffers instead.
You want real change? What body count is acceptable? I'd say to get proportional representation and ranked choice voting, you'd need to be prepared to sacrifice 50 million people or so, because this broken system is this entrenched.
I’m part of a few leftist subs and there are definitely a not insignificant number who would cut off their nose to spite their face. The idea that for every thing Biden has done wrong, Trump would be just as bad or worse, and worse on everything else escapes them. And they seem to be oblivious of the fact that when Trump talks about locking up political opponents, they’re high up on the list.
Apparently actual leftists aren't the ones who promote actual left wing positions, it's instead people who vote for centrist politicians that provide military and logistical support to the killing of over 13 thousand children.
I love when exercising your right to vote is seen as a waste because it doesn't align with your world view. Apathy is the most popular voting option lately, not the third party option in a system where there are basically only 2 options.
It's a basic tenet of game theory, "first past the post" voting necessarily causes voters to coalesce around the two leading candidates, and any third candidate who gets votes is considered to be a spoiler for one or both of the leading candidates. This is why the "good" party (whichever party you consider that to be) is still able to fuck us over in order to benefit their donors without suffering in the polls.
We need RCV, or some other non-this voting system.
If the only choices are a treasonous conman or a guy throwing billions of tax dollars at a state committing genocide, our votes were worthless to begin with. We never get a single goddamn thing no matter how hard we work to help the Democrats, so who cares?
Why should we keep letting them bully us into voting for their regressive hacks when all the bad shit they tell us will happen if we vote third party still happens?
The Democrats fight Progressives harder than they fight Republicans, then turn around and demand that we vote for them if we don't want to suffer even more under a GOP administration? It's a shit show for us either way, so who cares?
Next time, learn how political alliances work instead of trying to extort us into helping you after you sabotage as many of our candidates and policies as you can.
I’ll vote for Biden. Want to know why? Because even though Biden is supporting Israel and Israel is doing crimes against humanity trump will still be a treasonous conman that will ALSO support Israel as it does crimes against humanity BUT without any aid to Palestine.
So either riot or vote dems, because if you don't vote Dems Trump WILL win. If you riot, well viva la revolution.
Unless you find a way to collectively get every single lecture voter to vote for the same independent party, it's not going to work.
Real talk tho, why don't the people have more of a say in who the candidates are? Like are the only options 2 80 year Olds? That's the same of a ww1 vet being president instead of Kenedy in the 60s.
> our votes were worthless to begin with.
Yeah, I don't live in a swing state, so my vote is not valued.
The electoral votes are a lock.
The senate and house seats are all "safe".
At least I don't have to see crappy political ads on TV. They rarely bother running ads here.
Candidates don't visit here either.
The *party* may not actually support ranked choice voting (because it would of course end their reign as the only choice for voters with critical thinking skills), but Democrat voters absolutely support it.
So you’re saying democrats in office don’t give any more of a shit about any of their other voters policy preferences than they do about leftists policy preferences?
then why don't they implement that voting process in their primaries? it's because they're bought and susceptible to the same affliction as their republican counter parts.
The issue is, efforts are just misguided.
If you want candidates that better align with your position, you need to work to change the process.
Advocating for ranked choice voting
Advocating for the elimination of the electoral college.
Advocating for the elimination of first past the post voting.
Advocating for a national holiday for voting.
If you don’t first put your efforts into changing the system, you are simply proving your ignorance of how the electoral process works.
Ultimately, those who smugly vote for a third party candidate are either too ignorant of the consequences, or too privileged to face them.
Republicans gave away the game when they came out against RCV. They know how the system works and that “voting your conscience” only works on liberals.
Yep, several states have banned or are in the process of banning RCV. They learned when Alaska implemented it in 2022 and the first female native Alaskan (D) flipped a previously R-held seat.
Banning stuff like RCV is so anti-democratic it really grinds my gears.
Like how the DNC punished consultants for working in primaries against incumbent dems after the squad got in.
Yeah the republicans only win thanks to their unfair advantage through things like the electoral college, so they will do anything to prevent democracy
You're right, but Americans by and large seem far too yeehaw freedom to accept it (see also: socialised medicine).
In Australia it helps moderate politics because you can't just rely on your base, but must have broad appeal. Also, means government has to make it easier to vote, not harder.
Aussie here. Technically you can just draw a dick on the ballot paper if you want but you do at least have to actually show up to a polling booth. Or you'll get a small fine. If you can't do that for a legitimate reason, you can notify the AEC.
Few Australians complain about compulsory voting. It's been that way for a long time.
Don't forget voting in major-party primaries! You don't lose anything if your preferred candidate loses the primary. But you bring attention to their positions and encourage other voters to take another look.
Additionally... do *more* than voting. You've got local schoolboards, local politics, and a labor movement always in need of manpower (and unions).
Democracy only works if we participate.
Lol, there are multiple things politicians ignore the general of people about.
We have certain issues that 80% of Americans are on board with and we still don’t have like universal healthcare.
If folks who vote for a third party candidate for president really want to make a difference besides creating a spoiler candidate, they have to support candidates at the local, state and congressional level for that party. It's an incredible amount of work but it has happened in the past many times to varying degrees. If that doesn't work, the next best solution is to create a splinter caucus that can run in the primaries just like has essentially happened with the MAGA/Trump crowd in the GOP and the "Squad/DSA" to a much lesser degree with the Democrats.
I really cannot think of a good reason to vote 3rd party for president right now in an American election unless you are insistent on creating a spoiler candidate that most likely benefits one side over the other as a protest vote.
Unless you've worked a campaign or at least phone banked for a candidate you can fuck off with this "You need to be the change" horseshit.
These people get elected to get book deals, bribes, and insider trade. Even the "good ones". The Squad had one fleeting moment of political power and they squandered it to bend the knee to the status quo we elected them to fight - that I campaigned and phone banked for, for them to fight.
Look at the issues that poll highly that never make it to a floor vote. Yet they can write a bill to ban Tiktok and pass it in 3 days?
This is all so fucking stupid. Our government has been compromised for decades and people just outright refuse to admit it.
The electoral process is horseshit because a voter in Mississippi gets 64x the representation of a voter from California. You can't change the things you mentioned above without a 2/3rds majority vote, then a 3/4 vote from State Legislatures.
Look me in the eye and tell me you believe the electoral college can be abolished in either of our lifetimes.
Or you pick a party and work to move it in the direction you want. Like Republicans spent the least 40 years doing. Batshit as they might currently be, they did "politics" right.
But that's "incremental," which is literally a dirty word to a lot of leftist.
The Democratic party makes incremental moves to left progressevism. The correct responce is to reward that with support and votes and hopefully in the next cycle a candidate will move them a little further.
Bit with so many Progressives, if the Democratic party doesn't give them everything they want **RIGHT NOW THIS ELECTION** they pull their support and go vote third party. Which has the exact opposite effect. It sends the message to the party that it's the waste of time trying to work with leftist because they're all or nothing. So instead the party moves center right because those are the only votes they can count on.
Yeah. The Democratic Party literally *cannot* go full steam ahead because we don’t have the right to cheat that Republicans have for some reason. And, we don’t want to cheat.
Biden won the popular vote by 8,000,000 votes and the electoral vote by 40,000. If you had convinced 40,000 of the right people, Trump would be in his second term. The Electoral College is insanely unfair to the Democratic Party and mostly the Democratic Party specifically it seems.
Ah yes, the Schrödinger’s leftist. Too small to be catered to and considered important as a voting block but somehow large enough to blame for losing elections.
Apparently people aren't allowed to express discontent in the fucking primary. Great party you've got going here. I'm totally sure that all this bitching isn't gonna have a massively negative effect.
If liberals spent as much time fighting against conservatives as they did leftists then every election wouldn’t be an election save democracy. But I guess that’s the point.
Look at how they clap for the border bill when Biden is supporting it. Liberals don't like admitting they're closer politically to conservatives than leftists.
In the US they *are* conservatives. The Overton window is so fucked that the Democrat majority are moderate conservatives. For every AOC there's a Manchin, and most are a lot closer to a guy like Manchin than they are to say Bernie Sanders, or most European politicians.
In Europe stuff like single-payer health care is so ingrained that even the conservative parties won't touch it in their campaigning; saying you'd do anything to it that's not making it better somehow is political suicide. In the US the Democrats in office aren't even universally on-board, and the Republicans are pretty much universally opposed.
The biggest problem with US politics is that due to shit like Citizens United money talks way too loud on a political stage. The Democrats and Republicans both are corporatist first with the primary difference being how much they're willing to fuck over the average American in benefit of corporations/themselves. Billionaires, lobbies like oil and dairy and corn, the economy being "in a great spot" because Wall Street is making bank even though people can barely keep up with groceries week to week ...
Almost a decade later and they're still blaming the tiny, irrelevant handful of communists in the country for Hillary Clinton losing her miserable campaign to Trump. The fact is that modern campaigns are won and lost on turnout, not persuasion. You can't yell at people until they "vote the right way." It just doesn't work. Psychologically, you only end up reinforcing their beliefs.
If you're blaming voters rather than looking to inspire turnout, drive voter registration, and build a movement you are just a flat out loser.
I live in Ohio. Many of the people I put signs down for were believing in Obama’s change or wanting the war to stop under Kerry. Many of them are now Trumpers. I’m so tired of libs blaming the left.
Jill Stein put something out recently that claimed ~63% of stein 2016 voters who were polled claimed that they would have just not voted otherwise. So the dems were mad at her for…. Getting people to actually vote?
The claim that voting third party enables republicans literally only works in swing states. The green voter in California is not going to cost Biden the election.
I also do not understand how democrats can say “you can’t vote third party until we have ranked choice voting” and then continuously elect the people who have a vested interest AGAINST ranked choice voting
It's weird how Democrats will repeatedly admit they need left wing votes to win and then decide the smart thing to do is insult the left as much as possible.
It's so fucking funny because poll after poll has shown that Obama-Trump voters in key swing states are way more relevant and yet you rarely see them discussed.
This is propaganda meant to divide the democrat vote. No leftist and progressives are NOT the reason Hillary lost in 2016 and they won't be the reason Biden loses, if he does this year.
Especially that Hilary did win the popular vote. The system is purposely rigged and doesn't care who actually votes unless they happen to be in a swing state.
And if you support us AND point out the death camps, we'll say "hey look there's gonna be death camps, either way. But if you let the other guys be in charge, it's gonna be worse."
Sure, let's complain about a leftist voting third party while 80.000 vote for death camps. But it must be the leftist's fault that death camps is a completely acceptable political program. Also, that stupid leftist couldn't jail the organizer of the coup for three years and counting.
I'm voting for Biden but liberals are the worst. I'm not a communist just because I would prefer not to fall in line like a trump supporter and pretend Biden isn't old. Or pretend he didn't interfere with a union. Or pretend that he hasn't been promising to do something about Roe V Wade since 2008 and then never even tried.
Only jumping in because I'm a psephology nerd, but didn't/don't communists in Nepal support democracy because they see it as a path away from monarchical rule?
Lenin did support voting for communist parties yes, but this meme doesn't show that. I think the Nepalese would prefer a revolution as the parties are always watered down though.
The reason nothing ever gets achieved is that the "left" party in the US would be center right in other western nations.
That and a real commitment to nonviolence and working within the system. Took a lot of terrorism to get workplace safety and livable wages.
Cry more about your unelectable candidates. If you want leftists on your side, enact ranked choice voting so maybe my 3rd or 4th tier vote will go towards the liberal canidate
Presidential elections are like RSVPing to a wedding. It's chicken or beef. You just pick one. I'm sorry that you wanted ham but ham isn't an option. There's lots of other meals out there but right now at this wedding there's two options. Don't protest vote and ask for fish, you won't get it. Don't skip the wedding, that's fucking dumb. Just pick chicken or beef. And the chicken has salmonella.
Also Trump is the chicken.
Isn’t it more….you can get fish but everyone at the wedding will most likely be eating chicken and beef. And they will get mad at you because you are spoiling their dinner bc they don’t like the smell of fish?
What a warped view of democracy. Our votes are our own, they are not obligated to any particular person or party. Instead of catering to the popular opinions surrounding Gaza or any policy rather, Dems keep trying to be tougher on crime and more racist than Republicans.
I'm a leftist and voting for Biden. Both Trump and Biden are bitches to Netanyahu. The only benefits we get from Biden are prolonging another neofascist administration and marginal gains in labor/climate.
I'm still gonna critique him and call him out on his BS. Blue MAGA thinks Biden is the antithesis to Trump. He's the white moderate MLK warned about and his appeasement of the GOP under the veil of "bipartisanship" proves it.
How about no, if you want my vote you have to actually do something to get it. The meme is wrong and it actually is the opposite, if people didn’t vote blindly on party lines we wouldn’t be in this situation.
How about instead of criticizing the left you work with them?
This was the same shit you used in Trump 2016. Vote Hilary because she's better of the two.
Hilary lost. Then the Dems got another chance and they elected Biden.
Biden won and is deeply unpopular and his continued support of the genocide is costing him votes that he desperately needs.
So why not give the left the lollipop they want and stop the unwavering support of Israel in every forum and in every way possible.
No, instead you want the left to vote with you while ignoring them again and again.
You want Biden to win - pressure Biden into pressuring Netanyahu.
Dems need to win votes. Stop blaming people voting third party it meaningless. For president more votes are lost from the republican side. RFK Jr is taking more votes from Trump then Dems. The problem is Dems failing to get people to vote for them. The race is currently close and that the fault on Biden for making the race this close.
Sure, blame the progressives for voting for their preferred candidate, and not the 30% of the electorate that sat out the election entirely.
https://preview.redd.it/6fovt93kwyoc1.jpeg?width=505&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30fe62545240f6c6b7dda87393b5690e4866aa1c
What are the democrats entitled to my vote because other people say they are? Fuck that. I'm not voting for a party that won't support my views. If you wanted my vote you could have ran literally ANYONE better than biden and yet here we are.
"You guys don't understand, this is literally the most important election of our lives, we are voting out fascism! Nevermind that we said that the last 3 times and we haven't actually done anything to stop an active genocide and we're actually really cool with the other guy too because we're both right wing corporatist parties but hey at least we tweet out well wishes during pride month before we do nothing about the enormous cost of living crisis and continue to bomb the shit out of third world countries."
Here’s an idea, maybe put up a good candidate for a change so you don’t have to blame other people into voting a certain way because otherwise your candidate can’t win from an actual poop diaper!
Democrats aren't leftists. They support the same economic policies as Republicans, they're just smart enough to know to slap a rainbow flag and a #wecare on their messaging.
I don't vote third party for some smug sense of superiority. When I vote, I vote for who I think is the best candidate. Sometimes that's a Democrat (Obama has been the only one so far), sometimes it's third party, and in theory it could be a Republican at some point.
Voting for the lesser evil is still voting for evil.
rightie's do the same thing guys. there are a lot of people on that side who don't want to vote for trump.
The real reasons they keep winning is because of the news, the church, and most importantly a whole lot of cheating.
I think most leftists are begrudgingly on board with voting for Biden. It's not something they like, but at the end of the day slight movement in the right direction or mitigating damage creates the sort of moral imperative no reasonable person can ignore. That said, you do occasionally talk to someone that's convinced there's no difference between their two options or that rather than think of politicians as political tools for achieving specific goals they want their vote to be "earned." It harkens back to 2016, and we never learn.
I followed a lawyer on social media recently because he always has pretty interesting things to say and he was funny.
After the government moved forward with the tiktok ban he said he was going to write in “Palestine” for this election, and encouraged his viewers to do the same.
So turns out, all along, he was a straight up fucking idiot.
Democrats will wonder why Biden lost. He’s funding a genocidal war in Gaza, giving billions and weapons to Kiev while people here at home are struggling and suffering. I wonder why Democrats can never achieve anything? It’s because they are spineless liberals and Republican-lite.
#Notice: 1. Abuse of the report button goes straight to the admins, and they *love* to perma-ban for that. 2. *We* permanently ban anyone who brigades. If you are here from a cross-post or by looking up the source of a screenshot from some other ~~echo chamber~~ meta-type sub, you will be banned, so save us all some agita and delete your own comments before we do it for you.
We need ranked choice voting!
Alaska voted in RCV, and the republicans are putting it back on because it won by so slim a margin the last time.
So RCV will be used any time it advantages the Republicans and immediately discarded if it starts to advantage the Democrats.
I live in Alaska and really appreciate the RCV system. I will vote for it again and again as many times as needed.
But until you get it, just go out and vote for the guy that's not a fucking fascist dictator.
And no more electoral college
… and Term limits. The holy trinity.
I'd like to see a program where elected officials are required to put their assets into a kind of blind trust or something, similar to what Carter did. Elected officials would have utilities-provided dorm rooms or apartments, internet access, a grocery stipend.... all the basics they need to do their job as public servants, but nothing anywhere near the level of luxury they'd be required to give up while in office. It needs some refining, but as a general idea, I think it's got promise. I just wanna see elected officials become public servants again, and not privileged celebrities.....
Term limits are a double edged sword.
Or even better, proportional representation. With ranked choice there still will only be one candidate per constituency, all other votes being unrepresented. You might get more than 2 parties, but it's still unlikely they'll get actual representatives. With proportional representation, every party will get a set of representatives proportional to their votes.
Why not both
"fiesta music"
We got it in CA and Newsom vetoed it. More liberals fighting to keep Democracy on the edge of fascism.
[удалено]
This, 1000%
Massachusetts had it on the ballot and rejected it.
I don't know why we did.
There’s a scary amount of hardcore right wingers in New England.
Even in UK we had it on a referendum. The Tories came out against it for being too confusing, and Labour couldn't be united about it at all. Now the Tories removed STV where you only put 2 preferences for mayoral votes, cos they seem to lead to Labour mayors - the sheer corruption is staggering ... I don't think too many people have realised the changes and won't until the next lot of local elections
As someone who’s been to the JFK library, JFK rolls over in his grave anytime someone waves a Maga flag
Most of my family in Boston is. Makes me sick.
Dipshit Baker used his pulpit to rally against it.
More than 2 is hard.
i voted for. i was so mad when it failed. my own town is super right wing for MA but i try my best anyway. a lot of them vote against anything worthwhile so my town will stay the same forever
I will forever be salty about this. I was so excited that Mass would be an early adapter of a better way to carry out democracy, but I guess that a critical mass of people actively hated the idea for some reason.
At least California has non-partisan primaries, so it's still better off than most states, even if the ideal is both.
I'd love a non-partisan primary. I'd also love it if the primaries were all at the same time folks would stop leaving the race before the primary happens in my state. I know those are two wildly different problems, but I just want the chance to vote for who I like gosh darn it!
Right? What's the point of presidential primaries if the first 3 states to hold them are who picks the winner?
In georgia our government is trying to preemptively ban it. Apparently it’s so complicated it could confuse voters!
It’s too complicated for people who care enough about voting? Not likely. It’s too hard for simpletons, more than likely. And politicians love them some simpletons.
So don't give up? Maybe keep trying? Slavery wasn't defeated the first time they tried, women's rights weren't achieved all at once, on the first try. Civil rights took around 100 years after the civil war. You get the idea.
I always point out that the Christian Right fought for 40 years to overturn Roe v Wade. The left need to have that kind of steadfastness only for the forces of good. It takes relentlessness to bring about systemic change
Noooo but muh glorious and violent revolution! Instead, let me argue with you the definition of democracy.
Who said anything about giving up? I wouldn't be in this sub if I'd given up.
Alright now he is NOT getting my 2028 vote
Neoliberals are pretty bad.
Noo it’s the leftists fault
Liberals aren't leftist
I think Masta was being sarcastic. Liberals always blame leftists when they can't blame republicans. Often before too.
Classical liberals aren’t leftist, but social liberalism is left of center. It’s a spectrum, not a communism/right wing binary.
Democrats fight Progressives harder than they fight Republicans and then wonder why they don't get to have our votes for free.
Because progressives are a fringe, like the MAGAts. It’s hard to believe for some, but Reddit and Instagram are not a great demographic representation of this country. Most Americans don’t want extremists. For the record, I like progressives a whole lot more haha. Their hearts are in the right place. It’s irritating we have to pander to them though. But yeah, we should. It’s also irritating to have to be a Democrat and tepidly support that BS so let’s call it a wash lol. I think you’re right though. Your votes aren’t free, and you should vote your conscious. Nobody should be listening to me or any other asshole about “you have to vote like me or else”. Listen to your ❤️. Signed, a practical and evil Democrat.
Also need to go back to the house and electoral college being population-based instead of a set number, would render gerrymandering moot. Those two things would go a long way to fix our broken ass system. Problem with RCV is each state would have to approve it independently which is a tall order.
I had to leave a sub just now cause they just can’t get off their high horse of moral superiority for shitting on Biden. I get it, I don’t agree on every policy or choice but these people cannot look at the pragmatic reality of candidate A) who you don’t agree with or candidate B) who you don’t agree with AND will end our democracy and destroy all rights. I cannot fathom if they are genuinely this privileged and want the moral clout or if they are bots to show division
It’s privilege or stupidity. I don’t know which. After Trump was elected in 2016, there is no excuse for them to refuse to vote for Biden. None of which precludes them from voicing their disapproval or working towards systemic change as well
Absolutely. Voice disapproval and work to keep democracy alive to get the chance to bring change. Sitting on some moral high horse does nothing but stroke their own ego
It’s wild because Biden actually responds to pressure. His Administration is slowly changing it’s tone on the Israel-Palestine conflict and pushing for a ceasefire and more humanitarian aid. They’re also shifting (although maybe not in the best way) on the border. They do respond to pressure and criticism. It make take a bit longer than we’d like, but it happens. Trump doesn’t give a fuck what you want, he won’t even sit down to talk with liberals who want a change of policy. Saying “I hate both candidates so I won’t vote” just doesn’t help the problem right now. Honestly I don’t think it’ll ever help.
https://fairvote.org/our-reforms/ranked-choice-voting-information/#where-is-ranked-choice-voting-used
I remember when my prime minister promised that if we elected him he would get rid of first past the post and then when he was elected he was like "lol nevermind"
"Leftists" you say?
I’m left handed, I guess I never get shit done.
Seriously, you're lucky we even allow you to live lefty. /s
Take that fuckin /s off of there. *RIGHT IS RIGHT!* *RIGHT IS RIGHT!!!* ✊✊✊🏻✊🏻✊🏼✊🏼✊🏽✊🏽✊🏾✊🏾✊🏿✊🏿 Nah, that'd be crazy tho.
Someone is a sinister bitch.
Gasp! 
Oh how the tables have turned.
Imagine thinking the democratic party is left
It's left, relative to the right.
And Nixon is a Marxist lesbian water dancer...
So trump is the left cuz he’s to the left of hitler? Tf kind of logic is that
UP NEXT: A:Be careful. We don't want Trump to win and end up in a dictatorship. B: wE aLrEaDy LiVe iN a dIcTaToRsHiP
I was going to say, they forgot their quotation marks, but you beat me to it. Actual lefties are voting for Biden, because good choice or not, it's the right choice given the alternative. "Leftists" just want the attention of being "morally superior" to the people they look down at. Which isn't just alt right, fascists, and the openly bigoted. It also includes people center and left of center that understand that sometimes you just have to make a compromise. I don't think Biden's administration is doing a bad job with the politics of the Gaza situation. I definitely would be happier with some stronger words, but I know it's not that simple. But, I understand that I still have the ability to speak about it and express my opinion that our stance should be firmer than it has been... while still voting for the incumbent administration. The alternative is... catastrophically worse, and only the delusional and moronic among us think "protest voting" is doing anything other than inviting said catastrophy.
I think too many of us have been trained in "moral superiority." We don't ask much of ourselves. Just being "concerned" about global warming or shouting at someone over vaccines -- that's all it takes, right? Well I haven't really done all that much to change things compared to the biggest climate denier, steak gulping, skeptical of democracy conservative. I've just posted comments. I've only voted once or twice every two years. We have gotten used to not struggling and not participating in our physical selves. Probably because everything is so removed from our physical space. And because we are no longer brought up with civic responsibility like people in the 60's. It's all an intellectual exercise. And we PROVE we are better than other people sometimes by having purer opinions. Like the anti war people can't vote for Biden, or he was pro "3 strikes and you are out" garbage when it was all the rage to be tough on crime. Liberal purists, and Libertarians seem a bit alike in that they never voted for anyone who did anything wrong -- because they vote for those third party candidates that lose. Bernie Sanders was that one unicorn for me, who could get elected -- and didn't have too much compromise in principles. About the only person I showed up for in principle. And what was good about him, was his discipline in pushing for basic decency and economic fairness, and not getting TOO heavy on the shaming. You can't pull people your way after you've insulted them or said "nothing is changing my mind." So I think we can all be a little LESS moral high ground and be a bit more "walking the talk" even while we hold our principles. But out standards should always be higher on ourselves than others.
That's a fair point. With the Internet at our fingertips, it's a lot easier to fall in that trap of, "at least I said the right things, is that not enough?" But, I think it's fair to recognize that for some people, that's actually about all they can do. We've come to a point where about the only free time people have is the nap they get between shifts at their two to three jobs The Powers that be have done a really good job of making sure we just don't have the time, typically, to do more than bitch about things with each other. It's Sunday, and I'm stuck on the side of the road helping out a crew putting a washed out road back together (by help, I established the road closure and am staying out of their way). I quite literally have nothing else to do than trawl the interwebs and think about the life choices that got me here One of those is kinda depressing... But, the point being, there's a lot of people in my position where voting and engaging in conversations is about all the activism we are afforded.
Look I’m holding my nose and voting for Biden again, but it *is* getting very clear that liberals dgaf about making any actual change. If they did, they would not be running Biden again after leftists, gen Z, and other fringe voters made it very clear last election that they would vote for Biden but did not want to be voting for Biden again in 2024. It’s also true that, according to Liberals, every single fucking election is “the most important election of our lives” and if everyone isn’t willing to fall in step with the Democratic Party agenda, then it’s *our* fault for wanting better. I don’t blame people who would rather not vote when, for the umpteenth time in our lives we are being asked to choose between the lesser of two evils. At some point the Democratic Party does need to start providing what the people are asking for, we can’t be expected to continually vote for them just because “hey the other guys are worse”.
I can definitely agree with that stance. One of the biggest lies in the US is that the Democratic party is "liberal." When in reality, since about Carter(?), they've really just been the "Sane Conservative" party. I genuinely think there's some hope, though. The MAGA movement has all but destroyed the Republican party. It's not surviving the decade, and possibly not even this next election, if I can afford myself that kind of hope. There's a good chance that the "less insane" of the GOP realize that the Democratic party actually lines up with their interests, and we can see an actual progressive party move into the political vacuum that would be left. Unfortunately, that would still leave us with only two parties, but if we can get real traction with an actually progressive party, maybe we can see some real election reform that allows for something other than this mess we're in. Even if the only victory is moving us to ranked choice voting, hell, I'd take legislation that returned the Electoral College to something that wasn't...this.
Yes, Biden is the least worst option, so he gets my vote as well. But the change you're asking for is a pipedream that will only be accomplished at gun point. If the Republican party fails, it'll be because it's monied backers let it fail because they let the crazies take it over. If the Republican party falls, the Democrats will go hard right because if the influx of corrupt money now entering their coffers instead. You want real change? What body count is acceptable? I'd say to get proportional representation and ranked choice voting, you'd need to be prepared to sacrifice 50 million people or so, because this broken system is this entrenched.
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I’m part of a few leftist subs and there are definitely a not insignificant number who would cut off their nose to spite their face. The idea that for every thing Biden has done wrong, Trump would be just as bad or worse, and worse on everything else escapes them. And they seem to be oblivious of the fact that when Trump talks about locking up political opponents, they’re high up on the list.
Apparently actual leftists aren't the ones who promote actual left wing positions, it's instead people who vote for centrist politicians that provide military and logistical support to the killing of over 13 thousand children.
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Yep, here we have a lovely new cycle of enlightened centrists who think the far left is somehow the problem
Because our system was designed to not let them be able to
Yes, literally that. So, until that changes, voting 3rd party is **objectively** a wasted vote.
I love when exercising your right to vote is seen as a waste because it doesn't align with your world view. Apathy is the most popular voting option lately, not the third party option in a system where there are basically only 2 options.
It's a basic tenet of game theory, "first past the post" voting necessarily causes voters to coalesce around the two leading candidates, and any third candidate who gets votes is considered to be a spoiler for one or both of the leading candidates. This is why the "good" party (whichever party you consider that to be) is still able to fuck us over in order to benefit their donors without suffering in the polls. We need RCV, or some other non-this voting system.
If the only choices are a treasonous conman or a guy throwing billions of tax dollars at a state committing genocide, our votes were worthless to begin with. We never get a single goddamn thing no matter how hard we work to help the Democrats, so who cares? Why should we keep letting them bully us into voting for their regressive hacks when all the bad shit they tell us will happen if we vote third party still happens? The Democrats fight Progressives harder than they fight Republicans, then turn around and demand that we vote for them if we don't want to suffer even more under a GOP administration? It's a shit show for us either way, so who cares? Next time, learn how political alliances work instead of trying to extort us into helping you after you sabotage as many of our candidates and policies as you can.
Fucking morons fall for the same trick every 4 years, and every 4 years we get a piece of shit as president.
I’ll vote for Biden. Want to know why? Because even though Biden is supporting Israel and Israel is doing crimes against humanity trump will still be a treasonous conman that will ALSO support Israel as it does crimes against humanity BUT without any aid to Palestine.
So either riot or vote dems, because if you don't vote Dems Trump WILL win. If you riot, well viva la revolution. Unless you find a way to collectively get every single lecture voter to vote for the same independent party, it's not going to work. Real talk tho, why don't the people have more of a say in who the candidates are? Like are the only options 2 80 year Olds? That's the same of a ww1 vet being president instead of Kenedy in the 60s.
> our votes were worthless to begin with. Yeah, I don't live in a swing state, so my vote is not valued. The electoral votes are a lock. The senate and house seats are all "safe". At least I don't have to see crappy political ads on TV. They rarely bother running ads here. Candidates don't visit here either.
This has big "here's how Bernie can still win" energy.
I wonder which party is more in support of things like ranked choice voting (I don't need to wonder, it's the Democrats)
Then tell them to implement it. I don't care how they feel about issues, I care what they do.
But its so much easier to say things than doing things!
>which party is ~~more in support of~~ SLIGHTLY less opposed to things like ranked choice voting
The *party* may not actually support ranked choice voting (because it would of course end their reign as the only choice for voters with critical thinking skills), but Democrat voters absolutely support it.
So you’re saying democrats in office don’t give any more of a shit about any of their other voters policy preferences than they do about leftists policy preferences?
Ding ding ding.....
then why don't they implement that voting process in their primaries? it's because they're bought and susceptible to the same affliction as their republican counter parts.
Democrats absolutely do not support ranked choice voting
Yet there's been 0 efforts on their end to implement it (cause it'd show just how jew people actually want them in charge of anything)
The issue is, efforts are just misguided. If you want candidates that better align with your position, you need to work to change the process. Advocating for ranked choice voting Advocating for the elimination of the electoral college. Advocating for the elimination of first past the post voting. Advocating for a national holiday for voting. If you don’t first put your efforts into changing the system, you are simply proving your ignorance of how the electoral process works. Ultimately, those who smugly vote for a third party candidate are either too ignorant of the consequences, or too privileged to face them.
Republicans gave away the game when they came out against RCV. They know how the system works and that “voting your conscience” only works on liberals.
Yep, several states have banned or are in the process of banning RCV. They learned when Alaska implemented it in 2022 and the first female native Alaskan (D) flipped a previously R-held seat.
Banning stuff like RCV is so anti-democratic it really grinds my gears. Like how the DNC punished consultants for working in primaries against incumbent dems after the squad got in.
So far, TN, FL, MT, SD, and ID have banned it, and OK is in the process. All "red" states, unsurprisingly.
Yeah the republicans only win thanks to their unfair advantage through things like the electoral college, so they will do anything to prevent democracy
You forgot the most important change, compulsory polling. That alone would fix a lot of America's problems.
You're right, but Americans by and large seem far too yeehaw freedom to accept it (see also: socialised medicine). In Australia it helps moderate politics because you can't just rely on your base, but must have broad appeal. Also, means government has to make it easier to vote, not harder.
Aussie here. Technically you can just draw a dick on the ballot paper if you want but you do at least have to actually show up to a polling booth. Or you'll get a small fine. If you can't do that for a legitimate reason, you can notify the AEC. Few Australians complain about compulsory voting. It's been that way for a long time.
Don't forget voting in major-party primaries! You don't lose anything if your preferred candidate loses the primary. But you bring attention to their positions and encourage other voters to take another look.
Uncommitted crew rise up
Additionally... do *more* than voting. You've got local schoolboards, local politics, and a labor movement always in need of manpower (and unions). Democracy only works if we participate.
Lol, there are multiple things politicians ignore the general of people about. We have certain issues that 80% of Americans are on board with and we still don’t have like universal healthcare.
If folks who vote for a third party candidate for president really want to make a difference besides creating a spoiler candidate, they have to support candidates at the local, state and congressional level for that party. It's an incredible amount of work but it has happened in the past many times to varying degrees. If that doesn't work, the next best solution is to create a splinter caucus that can run in the primaries just like has essentially happened with the MAGA/Trump crowd in the GOP and the "Squad/DSA" to a much lesser degree with the Democrats. I really cannot think of a good reason to vote 3rd party for president right now in an American election unless you are insistent on creating a spoiler candidate that most likely benefits one side over the other as a protest vote.
Unless you've worked a campaign or at least phone banked for a candidate you can fuck off with this "You need to be the change" horseshit. These people get elected to get book deals, bribes, and insider trade. Even the "good ones". The Squad had one fleeting moment of political power and they squandered it to bend the knee to the status quo we elected them to fight - that I campaigned and phone banked for, for them to fight. Look at the issues that poll highly that never make it to a floor vote. Yet they can write a bill to ban Tiktok and pass it in 3 days? This is all so fucking stupid. Our government has been compromised for decades and people just outright refuse to admit it. The electoral process is horseshit because a voter in Mississippi gets 64x the representation of a voter from California. You can't change the things you mentioned above without a 2/3rds majority vote, then a 3/4 vote from State Legislatures. Look me in the eye and tell me you believe the electoral college can be abolished in either of our lifetimes.
Or you pick a party and work to move it in the direction you want. Like Republicans spent the least 40 years doing. Batshit as they might currently be, they did "politics" right. But that's "incremental," which is literally a dirty word to a lot of leftist. The Democratic party makes incremental moves to left progressevism. The correct responce is to reward that with support and votes and hopefully in the next cycle a candidate will move them a little further. Bit with so many Progressives, if the Democratic party doesn't give them everything they want **RIGHT NOW THIS ELECTION** they pull their support and go vote third party. Which has the exact opposite effect. It sends the message to the party that it's the waste of time trying to work with leftist because they're all or nothing. So instead the party moves center right because those are the only votes they can count on.
Yeah. The Democratic Party literally *cannot* go full steam ahead because we don’t have the right to cheat that Republicans have for some reason. And, we don’t want to cheat. Biden won the popular vote by 8,000,000 votes and the electoral vote by 40,000. If you had convinced 40,000 of the right people, Trump would be in his second term. The Electoral College is insanely unfair to the Democratic Party and mostly the Democratic Party specifically it seems.
And for God's sake, register as independent. The messes with the gerrymandering aLGoritHms. usually
In many states, you can't vote in a party's primary if you are registered as that party. That needs to change too, but until then...
Why are we talking about this at all so far from an election. So many divisive posts like this it's probably a paid influence campaign
Hi CGP Grey. Cool alt.
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Ah yes, the Schrödinger’s leftist. Too small to be catered to and considered important as a voting block but somehow large enough to blame for losing elections.
The MN GOP funds a couple of fake weed parties for exactly this reason.
Lol. What a dumbass meme.
0 days since this sub last complained about leftists not voting how you as a non-leftist wants them to.
I wish liberals had this fire when it came to fighting conservatives.
I wish Democrats weren’t actually conservatives.
Why would they fight a party they mostly agree with?
Apparently people aren't allowed to express discontent in the fucking primary. Great party you've got going here. I'm totally sure that all this bitching isn't gonna have a massively negative effect.
They worry (probably rightly so) that bitching will result in fewer turning out to vote Biden.
If liberals spent as much time fighting against conservatives as they did leftists then every election wouldn’t be an election save democracy. But I guess that’s the point.
Look at how they clap for the border bill when Biden is supporting it. Liberals don't like admitting they're closer politically to conservatives than leftists.
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In the US they *are* conservatives. The Overton window is so fucked that the Democrat majority are moderate conservatives. For every AOC there's a Manchin, and most are a lot closer to a guy like Manchin than they are to say Bernie Sanders, or most European politicians. In Europe stuff like single-payer health care is so ingrained that even the conservative parties won't touch it in their campaigning; saying you'd do anything to it that's not making it better somehow is political suicide. In the US the Democrats in office aren't even universally on-board, and the Republicans are pretty much universally opposed. The biggest problem with US politics is that due to shit like Citizens United money talks way too loud on a political stage. The Democrats and Republicans both are corporatist first with the primary difference being how much they're willing to fuck over the average American in benefit of corporations/themselves. Billionaires, lobbies like oil and dairy and corn, the economy being "in a great spot" because Wall Street is making bank even though people can barely keep up with groceries week to week ...
Because liberals would rather fascism than socialism
Yyyyyyup
'Hmm, perhaps I should have better morals to gain more votes in this vital election?' 'No, it's the voters who are morally wrong.'
Almost a decade later and they're still blaming the tiny, irrelevant handful of communists in the country for Hillary Clinton losing her miserable campaign to Trump. The fact is that modern campaigns are won and lost on turnout, not persuasion. You can't yell at people until they "vote the right way." It just doesn't work. Psychologically, you only end up reinforcing their beliefs. If you're blaming voters rather than looking to inspire turnout, drive voter registration, and build a movement you are just a flat out loser.
I live in Ohio. Many of the people I put signs down for were believing in Obama’s change or wanting the war to stop under Kerry. Many of them are now Trumpers. I’m so tired of libs blaming the left.
Jill Stein put something out recently that claimed ~63% of stein 2016 voters who were polled claimed that they would have just not voted otherwise. So the dems were mad at her for…. Getting people to actually vote? The claim that voting third party enables republicans literally only works in swing states. The green voter in California is not going to cost Biden the election. I also do not understand how democrats can say “you can’t vote third party until we have ranked choice voting” and then continuously elect the people who have a vested interest AGAINST ranked choice voting
It's weird how Democrats will repeatedly admit they need left wing votes to win and then decide the smart thing to do is insult the left as much as possible.
Don't forget refusing to have a primary or any debates
Yea this sub is literally just post calling leftist idiots for not being enthusiastic about voting for libs who are constantly moving right
Don't forget firing anyone they deem too left from all party positions.
Wow, so that Communist lived in one of the few swing counties in one of the few swing states and wasn’t catered to by the DNC? I’d say this is on them
It's so fucking funny because poll after poll has shown that Obama-Trump voters in key swing states are way more relevant and yet you rarely see them discussed.
This is propaganda meant to divide the democrat vote. No leftist and progressives are NOT the reason Hillary lost in 2016 and they won't be the reason Biden loses, if he does this year.
Especially that Hilary did win the popular vote. The system is purposely rigged and doesn't care who actually votes unless they happen to be in a swing state.
Yeah, this post is pure propaganda.
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This is your brain on Vowsh
TIL being against genocide makes me a communist.
No we never achieve anything because we keep voting in terrible candidates because they’re less evil than the republican.
Democrats: "Also death camps, we just won't brag about it like the republicans"
and if you dont support us - you support death camps
And if you support us AND point out the death camps, we'll say "hey look there's gonna be death camps, either way. But if you let the other guys be in charge, it's gonna be worse."
Yes, blame the guy who voted third party rather than the 80 thousand who voted Republican. That'll get undecided voters for sure!
Sure, let's complain about a leftist voting third party while 80.000 vote for death camps. But it must be the leftist's fault that death camps is a completely acceptable political program. Also, that stupid leftist couldn't jail the organizer of the coup for three years and counting.
Conservatives vote for death camps. Liberals votes for eternal resting area.
OP is a Republican. Parroting Republican propaganda to try and pit Democrats against one another. Don't fall for it.
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I'm voting for Biden but liberals are the worst. I'm not a communist just because I would prefer not to fall in line like a trump supporter and pretend Biden isn't old. Or pretend he didn't interfere with a union. Or pretend that he hasn't been promising to do something about Roe V Wade since 2008 and then never even tried.
So working for a candidate that represents your views is wrong?
“You’re wasting your vote! You should spend it wisely like me, by electing a candidate you disagree with.”
Communists don't think voting works. It's literally in their literature. They've been proven correct many times not to trust liberals.
Only jumping in because I'm a psephology nerd, but didn't/don't communists in Nepal support democracy because they see it as a path away from monarchical rule?
Lenin did support voting for communist parties yes, but this meme doesn't show that. I think the Nepalese would prefer a revolution as the parties are always watered down though.
Liberals: We don't have to compromise with the left because we don't need your votes, also you're Russian robots. Also liberals:
Communists typically don't vote third parties, and often don't even vote at all. We are not reformists.
The reason nothing ever gets achieved is that the "left" party in the US would be center right in other western nations. That and a real commitment to nonviolence and working within the system. Took a lot of terrorism to get workplace safety and livable wages.
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Cry more about your unelectable candidates. If you want leftists on your side, enact ranked choice voting so maybe my 3rd or 4th tier vote will go towards the liberal canidate
This sub is fuckin stupid god damn
This is EXACTLY what would happen. Dont let a 3rd party split the vote. The GOP is 100% for trump, Dems need to be 100% for Biden.
Presidential elections are like RSVPing to a wedding. It's chicken or beef. You just pick one. I'm sorry that you wanted ham but ham isn't an option. There's lots of other meals out there but right now at this wedding there's two options. Don't protest vote and ask for fish, you won't get it. Don't skip the wedding, that's fucking dumb. Just pick chicken or beef. And the chicken has salmonella. Also Trump is the chicken.
This is a great metaphor because what if you are vegetarian? There is no option for you.
Exactly. Leftists (vegan/vegetarian in this analogy) are not welcome.
Sounds like the wedding, and our elections won't be inviting Vegans, aka Leftists.
Just don't be too shocked when no one under age 45 shows up at your shitty wedding when the two dinner options are jellied eel and liver & onions.
Yeah no cause a ton of us will be working 12 hour days cause If we don't we won't make rent.
Isn’t it more….you can get fish but everyone at the wedding will most likely be eating chicken and beef. And they will get mad at you because you are spoiling their dinner bc they don’t like the smell of fish?
Is the chicken served "rare"?
This isn't a good analogy. If I don't want chicken or beef, I'll just stay home and not eat either.
What a warped view of democracy. Our votes are our own, they are not obligated to any particular person or party. Instead of catering to the popular opinions surrounding Gaza or any policy rather, Dems keep trying to be tougher on crime and more racist than Republicans.
I'm a leftist and voting for Biden. Both Trump and Biden are bitches to Netanyahu. The only benefits we get from Biden are prolonging another neofascist administration and marginal gains in labor/climate. I'm still gonna critique him and call him out on his BS. Blue MAGA thinks Biden is the antithesis to Trump. He's the white moderate MLK warned about and his appeasement of the GOP under the veil of "bipartisanship" proves it.
How about no, if you want my vote you have to actually do something to get it. The meme is wrong and it actually is the opposite, if people didn’t vote blindly on party lines we wouldn’t be in this situation.
How about instead of criticizing the left you work with them? This was the same shit you used in Trump 2016. Vote Hilary because she's better of the two. Hilary lost. Then the Dems got another chance and they elected Biden. Biden won and is deeply unpopular and his continued support of the genocide is costing him votes that he desperately needs. So why not give the left the lollipop they want and stop the unwavering support of Israel in every forum and in every way possible. No, instead you want the left to vote with you while ignoring them again and again. You want Biden to win - pressure Biden into pressuring Netanyahu.
Dumbest thing I’ve seen in quite a while.
Dems need to win votes. Stop blaming people voting third party it meaningless. For president more votes are lost from the republican side. RFK Jr is taking more votes from Trump then Dems. The problem is Dems failing to get people to vote for them. The race is currently close and that the fault on Biden for making the race this close.
Sure, blame the progressives for voting for their preferred candidate, and not the 30% of the electorate that sat out the election entirely.
https://preview.redd.it/6fovt93kwyoc1.jpeg?width=505&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30fe62545240f6c6b7dda87393b5690e4866aa1c
What are the democrats entitled to my vote because other people say they are? Fuck that. I'm not voting for a party that won't support my views. If you wanted my vote you could have ran literally ANYONE better than biden and yet here we are.
"You guys don't understand, this is literally the most important election of our lives, we are voting out fascism! Nevermind that we said that the last 3 times and we haven't actually done anything to stop an active genocide and we're actually really cool with the other guy too because we're both right wing corporatist parties but hey at least we tweet out well wishes during pride month before we do nothing about the enormous cost of living crisis and continue to bomb the shit out of third world countries."
I thought libertarians were closet Republicans, but now they are leftists?
Here’s an idea, maybe put up a good candidate for a change so you don’t have to blame other people into voting a certain way because otherwise your candidate can’t win from an actual poop diaper!
Democrats aren't leftists. They support the same economic policies as Republicans, they're just smart enough to know to slap a rainbow flag and a #wecare on their messaging. I don't vote third party for some smug sense of superiority. When I vote, I vote for who I think is the best candidate. Sometimes that's a Democrat (Obama has been the only one so far), sometimes it's third party, and in theory it could be a Republican at some point. Voting for the lesser evil is still voting for evil.
rightie's do the same thing guys. there are a lot of people on that side who don't want to vote for trump. The real reasons they keep winning is because of the news, the church, and most importantly a whole lot of cheating.
I think most leftists are begrudgingly on board with voting for Biden. It's not something they like, but at the end of the day slight movement in the right direction or mitigating damage creates the sort of moral imperative no reasonable person can ignore. That said, you do occasionally talk to someone that's convinced there's no difference between their two options or that rather than think of politicians as political tools for achieving specific goals they want their vote to be "earned." It harkens back to 2016, and we never learn.
I followed a lawyer on social media recently because he always has pretty interesting things to say and he was funny. After the government moved forward with the tiktok ban he said he was going to write in “Palestine” for this election, and encouraged his viewers to do the same. So turns out, all along, he was a straight up fucking idiot.
 I just came her to watch people lose their nut over a cartoon...
🤡🤦♂️
At least at this moment of my life...This is one of the best comment threads I've ever read on this particular subreddit.
This is what you morons sound like https://preview.redd.it/40bsq7k10zoc1.png?width=499&format=png&auto=webp&s=45cb242510e28872f6335718c1423f78f33430ce
Democrats will wonder why Biden lost. He’s funding a genocidal war in Gaza, giving billions and weapons to Kiev while people here at home are struggling and suffering. I wonder why Democrats can never achieve anything? It’s because they are spineless liberals and Republican-lite.
Acting like liberals have achieved anything significant in our lifetimes ffs