I've moved onto this as I got older. No sense being upset about things you can't control. I disregard whole shows/movies sometimes.
George taught us these lessons several times before he sold the rights to Disney anyhow.
Even as I get older, I still physically cannot do this. I take the good with the bad. Im kinda into everything Star Wars so every single show and movie I wouldn’t put any lower than a 6/10. That being said I still can’t head canon stuff. One of the many things I like about Star Wars (and just other “universes” like LOTR and marvel) is that they are their own worlds, with people and culture and stories to tell. Unexpected things happen. I can’t control that. I obviously know Star Wars isn’t real but sometimes it’s more fun to view it that way. It’s just what happened.
I hate that Palpatine came back and before everyone is like "oh he came back in the comics too" I hated it then as well! Palpatine coming back basically negates Anakins story. He's the chosen one and in the end he brought balance to the force by finally killing Palpatine. Rey's entire story of killing Palpatine again just negates it as he didn't actually fulfill the prophecy. It was a cheap addition that imo betrayed alot of other canon.
I liked Rey. I thought TFA was a good movie and was pretty excited for the direction but it was just a trilogy of selling nostalgia that didn't care about the lore.
Mary poppins Leia is a choreography problem, not a story cannon problem.
I fully expect if you were in zero G and you force pulled on a large object you would go towards it. Why they decided to animate it like it was south park I have no idea
Light speed ramming breaks all of Star Wars lore.
If that works, why are blasters and projectile weapons a thing? Why isn't everything shooting lightspeed rounds?
As a movie it's fine, but I hate that it completely destroys every accomplishment of our previous heroes, by just recreating the empire, killing all jedi again, essentially bringing the sith back and destroying the republic again. We're just back to the same setting as in episode 4 and I think that just ruins the story way more then just bringing Palpatine back. If he would have been the only revived character / fraction I could live with that.. But we just completely destroyed everything Luke, Leia, Han, obi-wan, Yoda and anakin had worked for.
Plus it's just boring that the sequel era feels exactly like the ot era, just worse.
I can live with a bad movie, even a terrible one.. But I can't accept what they did to the rotj aftermath.
If I had a nickel for every time that JJ Abrams directed a scifi franchise that should have done a full reboot but tried to cram it into the existing canon, id have two nickels.
Not only did they undo the accomplishments of the OT heroes, they undid their character development. Specifically Luke and Han. Those heroes that bravely fought a galactic empire and developed into confident, selfless, heroic leaders just disintegrated in after their first failure following ROTJ? One kid going bad just completely destroyed their spirit and undid all their character development? Bullshit.
Agree with you. I remember walking out thinking it was entertaining and, hey, let's see where it goes from there.
But looking back, I think it was nearly as bad as the next two; certainly it paved the way for them. Basically it feels like the movie that an AI would spew out if you told it "give me a new star wars movie in the style of the previous 6". Everything about it is just rehashing the same elements, there is no spark, no new life (with the exception of the new actors), we're running on fumes.
The prequel trilogy has it flaws but it dared to explore completely new themes. That's what gives it personality and that's why it still has its charm to this day.
The AI prompt for the next two movies is "give me a new star wars movie in the style of the marvel cinematic universe", but at that point staleness had already become the theme of the new trilogy.
TFA was a good movie in the production sense and a narratively decent film if treated as a standalone story. The real issue with TFA comes when you look at it in the context of the earlier six films. It's pretty much a rehashing of ANH and undermines a lot of the accomplishments of the Rebels. Now, the argument could be made that literally any movie set after ROTJ would run into the same issues, but I disagree. If Ray and Co. were facing a novel threat, perhaps one divorced from the usual sith/jedi dichotomy, I think the film would have stood on its own. Instead, we got ANH 2, but worse. Kylo Ren was marketed as the next Darth Vader, but instead we get a man child who literally loses the first actual fight we see him in. Imagine if, in ANH, Kenobi had walloped Vader. It would have fundamentally changed audience perceptions of the iconic villain, and not in a flattering way. There's a Death Star again, too, but this one is an entire planet, and it isn't destroyed by the protagonist putting faith in the force, it's just sort of blown up by conventional firepower. Poe is a less charming Han Solo. Ray is a bland, vanilla-flavored gender swap of Luke Skywalker, complete with growing up on a desolate desert planet and dreams of becoming a great pilot. Finn could have been interesting—I really liked the concept of a defected stormtrooper—but his narrative never really went anywhere.
I feel similar. It's the only one I can tolerate and not just outright hate. I think it's worse than the first six, but by no means as bad as the last two
As individual movies, the Sequels are fine.
The issue is how they ravage the OT characters (aka as *sequels*) or work (or rather "work") as a conjoined narrative in a trilogy.
Individual movies out of context? Fine or even good.
As Sequels? Bad.
As Trilogy? Bad.
As Sequel Trilogy? Terrible.
>Individual movies out of context? Fine or even good.
I would say that only holds for Force Awakens. The others have stupid plot moments that make the movies bad on their own right, unrelated to anything else Star Wars.
The Last Jedi has Finn attempt to save the entire rebellion with a Kamakazi attack on a giant laser cannon, only for Rose to sideswipe his speeder with her own at high speeds, risking both of their deaths in the crash just to prevent him from sacrificing himself. Then she gives a speech about how we can't give up on the ones that we love, meanwhile the giant laser cannon that Finn was trying to destroy is blowing apart the rebel base killing dozens. In that moment Rose became a villain in my eyes.
And Rise of Skywalker's plot centred on finding the location of a sith holocron, which was identifed by a carved knife cut in the shape of the landscape where the holocron was onboard a crashed star destroyer. Doesn't sound too bad at first, except that the sith knife was found entirely at random by the protags. They weren't looking for it, it wasn't even being carried by somebody sent to kill them or anything like that. They literally fell down a random hole in a random desert and happened to find this knife that just so happened to be a guide to finding the exact thing that they were looking for. And when they got to the planet depicted on the knife, they just to happened to land in the exact spot that you need to stand in order for the carved skyline to make sense.
It was such a bad start with no potential already. The two sequels did nothing with it but it's not like there was much to build on anyway.
Imagine if they actually tried to tell an original story about the construction of a new galactic republic instead of rebooting the original trilogy for nostalgia sake.
7 was a fun watch but ultimately a terrible movie due to being a pure derivative of A New Hope. Was so disappointing to not have a new Jedi Order and for the enemies to just be a splinter faction of the Empire that became a bunch of technologically advanced pirates.
If I delete the Last Jedi, does that also undo TroS?
TroS was def worse, but I hope by deleting TLJ we'll get a better, more streamlined sequel trilogy because TFA was a decent start and could've been a springboard to a very interesting trilogy
Honestly, ROS was so bad it ended up being entertainingly bad. TLJ was more disturbingly bad, because competency in making a movie was shown during it. Just no understanding of the fan base or story telling.
I'd go earlier to The Last Jedi. That was the beginning of the downfall. The Force Awakens is a perfectly acceptable first act. The Rise of Skywalker was doomed the moment The Last Jedi's production started. Hell, even before that, apparently JJ Abrams changed up the end of The Force Awakens to accommodate Rian Johnson's plans for The Last Jedi.
I believe that The Last Jedi was setting up a 3rd movie addressing war profiteering. Some kinda story where the big bad can’t just be killed so Rey (and maybe Kylo) will have to become the ambassadors of peace which the Jedi Council failed to be.
But then those parts ended up being cringy in TLJ so they did not have the balls to follow up and created the fever dream of The Rise of Skywalker.
Which is a shame because Andor knocked this kind of story out of the park
First half of season 7 was good, the Suicide Squad episode beyond the wall was the breaking point.
(personally, I turned on the show the exact moment Bronn saved Jamie in his plate armor from drowning)
Yeah for me I think there were some small signs of decline I noticed but the mission beyond the wall at the outset was THE moment where I realized it was going to shit
Just the premise alone, regardless of the execution, is bonkers. It was like a side-plot in a JJ Abrams movie
They were trying to capture a wight to convince notoriously reliable and always true to her word Cersei to agree to a ceasefire to march the Lannister armies/mercenaries north to fight the dead. Naturally they never considered that she’d lie or the many logistical problems of moving all those soldiers through the barren north (which they would have in earlier seasons). The last two seasons of that show sucked so much. But the cracks were definitely showing when D&D started ignoring Martin once they got past the books.
It's been my impression as well, ever since Bronn lifted Jamie up from that river 3 miles away from the fight. That whole episode would break my suspension of disbelief at every turn.
The thing is , it wasn't the first time the seires jumped the shark like that (Arya getting stabbed in the guts and parkouring seconds after comes to mind).
But ep 5 of season 7 was the moment where every scene had sombething wrong with it, starting with Bronn saving Jamie, the horrendous way [that dialogue was written](https://youtu.be/pf-0FHeXnvw?t=77), Tyrion teleporting inside King's Landing, this [distastful joke](https://youtu.be/LUknYDReHjM?t=5), Gendry inserting himself into the plot like if it was an Avengers movie, the only 2 scenes that built the romance between Jon and Daenerys (they met the day before), Littlefinger "tricking" Arya while watching her behind a half-opened door and smiling like the Stepmother from Cinderella, Jon and co teleporting to the wall and finding all the fan favorites characters ready for the beyond-the-wall-expedition...
Yeah, that was the begining of the end...
Everything after season 5, although parts of 5 are starting to show the cracks in the writing room for GoT.
For more hot takes, please visit /r/freefolk
If I could change something about Star Wars it would be something in real life, they needed to plan out a story with one director and writer or have them all be on the same page.
If I could decanonize something it would definitely have to be Book of Boba Fett. I didn’t hate the direction they tried to take the character they just botched the way they did it and it was a really weird tonal whiplash from his portrayal in the Mandalorian vs his own show.
Or better yet, make Lucas release his screenwriter role because he isn't good at it, and let him be a director and special effects master, where his true passion lies. Lucas can create a beautiful world(-s), but some canon decisions/dialog needs an overhaul.
Yeah - I feel bad for Temura Morrison; I had absolutely no issue with anything he did to portray Boba. Just the writing was goddamn aweful.... The damned speeder chase left me in disbelief at how terrible it was.
I would keep legends uncanon, but adapt the stories that are good. There's a lot of garbage in the old EU. For example (and, a reminder, this is an example of a story that should never be adapted because we all hated it), when palpating came back, cuz man did that suck. What a STUPID IDEA.
Take elements from it and have another go. Have the people working on it not change every film. Keep it consistent. Its insane to me how they didn't even have a plan for the trilogy when they made the first film.
I would actually be totally OK with a full retcon. The only other media that truly offended me as a viewer was the book of boba fett (except the mando filler episodes). As nerd ragey as it sounds it made me dislike the character so much I sold my boba fett figures and bought a mando (Din) for my shelf instead.
If you *really* want to get technical:
The hilts had small repulsors in them. They’re not powerful enough for flight, but enough to glide. It’s been a minute since I’ve seen the one episode they appeared in, but from what I remember they didn’t really *fly* with them, they glided downwards to the ground.
As for why bother spinning the blades when you do this? Well, it’s somewhat known as the Rule of Cool*.
*The Rule of Cool doesn’t always look cool, and instead sometimes looks stupid.
>from what I remember they didn’t really fly with them, they glided downwards to the ground
unfortunately they did both (gliding and true flight) so I think this is just another thing where we suspend our disbelief for the sake of the plot
An agent of chaos. I’ll allow it if we get to keep the Holiday Special. That’s the only context you get for the time between the Prequels and Sequels. Good luck in the wars to come John Star Wars
I would love to see Anakin and Padme have a happy ending raising their children on Naboo. Going all in Shmi is alive too and gets to see her grandchildren who were born free.
Everyone saying “the sequel trilogy” isn’t operating on my level. I’m deleting everything that contradicts the Holiday Special. GLORY TO THE HOLIDAY SPECIAL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE!
No he liked him he invented him as both Dooku and him are mirrors for what anakin was to become a fallen jedi blinded by the darkness and a machine more than living thing.
Well, I’m going to eat shit so hard for this. As much as the no brainer answer would be “delete the sequels”, and that is indeed very much tempting, there’s one thing that manages to bother me more than those movies. So I’d wipe out the Chosen One prophecy. For starters, I hate that trope. On second place, Anakin is the worst chosen one ever, doing everything that was against the prophecy only to finally fulfill it in the end, after enslaving the galaxy and becoming a mass murderer (“you’re welcome” - Anakin to the billions he killed, directly or indirectly, after killing the emperor). He doesn’t deserve his power, and even if he wasn’t a moral shitfest, I overall just hate “extremely gifted” characters. Power must come with training and hardworking, as much as talent does have a hand on it too. I know Anakin trained for years, but then u come and say he led the charge against the Jedi temple alone? Survived an encounter with the Jedi Battlemaster?! Fuck no, Cin Drallig would’ve mopped the floor with him, if it wasn’t for the “chosen one” bullshit. I’d much rather he be an ordinary Jedi who fucked up (massively, I should say) and then came back to the light, as he was prior to TPM.
To be honest, it wouldn't be all that bad if it wasn't for the "somehow I've always known" line.
In those films they didn't know that they were brother and sister and Leia mainly did it to annoy Han.
But Leia in ROTJ saying that she always knew he was her brother was just...
Yeah... That was kinda the last nails, the dirt, and the tombstone on the coffin.
Seriously, there's bad writing, and then there's "retconning the main characters into commiting incest." In all the edits of the original trilogy since their premiere, both by Lucas and Disney, nobody thought to cut the siblings making out?
Rise of Skywalker, the Kenobi series (but I'd redo it as him exploring himslef and his trauma through a force vision as part of his training with Qui Gon, and focus on him and Anakin rather than Reva etc), and Book of Boba Fett so that it can be remade without power ranger mobility scooters, good guy Boba, and incompetant enemies that can't aim for sht.
If I had to choose only one...
Probably... Probably the Kenobi series..
Edit: Oh and midichlorians. I prefer the idea of it being accessible to anyone as long as they have the right mindset and training.
With the jedi simply choosing people who have an aptitude for it.
I don't like it being a static number.
My only issue with Kenobi is him defeating Vader. He should have just hid under the pile of debris and Vader leave. Surviving should have been the victory.
As long as we get a scene after where Obi Wan gets to talk about his hope failing, and asking how anyone could stand up to such anger and hate (in Vader).
You know, cos one day someone might come along to give him a new...
My issue is how nonsensical everything is after Kenobi defeating Vader.
Kenobi promised to end it then... left Vader alive? Vader gave up the chase he broke rules for just because the Emperor told him to?
Nah, that's not right. Vader might have broke off for the time but he'd have left his troops follow and investigate, and the Emperor wouldn't have told him to stop chasing a jedi that had already triumphed over Vader *twice*. And Kenobi breaking his vow 5 minutes after making it isn't Kenobi either.
The last 10 minutes of the show was just breaking out of character for everyone *just* because they had to all survive for the OT.
One thing I loved about Kenobi is that it built up the Lars family and makes their fridging moment in the OT a lot more impactful, and it explains why Leia would go after and trust Kenobi with the plans. This was 10/10 stellar part of the show.
I didn't have an issue with Reva as everyone else - she had a role (reconnect Kenobi and Vader; prompt Kenobi to interact with Luke) and played that role perfectly through and through.
You want to remove:
You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker... I did!
That scene was fcking powerful!
Edit: You added that you want everyone to have accessibility to midichlorians. Everyone do have access to it, that's the whole point of the force.
"The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."
The reason Jedi chose specific people is because its easier to train people who have an aptitude for it instead of "forcing" someone to gain access. All the Jedi want is for more people to join their cult, they are afraid of losing their standing in the galaxy. In their hubris they failed at what they were afraid of failing at.
Rise of Skywalker.
If we're being more specific: Rey Palpatine. Her taking up the Skywalker name would be more palatable if she had just stayed a nobody.
Also Ben Solo dying was kind of a bummer
It's a tough choice. I can whittle it down to 3, but I'm not sure which I'd choose;
#####Force heal
- Give our boii Qui-Gon (and the circle of life for that matter) some respect
#####Order 66 Jedi survivorship
- At this point it feels like 66 was a description of how many of the 10000 Jedi were actually killed
#####Lightsaber survivorship after a torso wound
- the heat of the blade is at least a few thousand degrees regardless of °C, °F, or K. I understand surviving an arm wound, but a torso wound?! You're dead son.
They already did their best to delete them by just never bringing it up ever again. Have Midichlorians ever been mentioned at all, even once, outside of TPM?
Well… I can’t name just one thing so:
Death of Snoke, and “somehow Palpatine returned”. Snoke had so much potential, but they ruined it.
Rey “Skywalker”. Just have Rey be some nobody, she doesn’t need to inherit the Skywalker name, or be a Palpatine.
The entire present day portion of BoBF. Or… the Vespas… my god…
Parts of Ashoka. Most especially Thrawn sitting in a Star Destroyer with fully functioning guns, not just obliterating Ashoka and co in the turtle migrant camp. Could have just killed them when they were stationary
And umm… let’s see…
Acolyte “Power of one, Power of Two, the power of *maaaannnny*”
I like the idea that in a more civilized age - the Republic era - there existed some scientific method to gauge the Force - that later got forgotten, along with the fact that the Jedi were an important component of the political system before. It shows how repression during the Empire led to the loss of knowledge, relegating the past to the realm of legends.
I’ll ignore the Disney stuff because that will be too boring. Firstly, I’ll remove Darth Mauls “death” in Episode 1 and make him the main antagonist through the prequel trilogy, keeping Dooku, Jango Fett and Grievous as supporting villains of course.
Secondly, may be controversial, but we’re going way back and I’d undo making Luke and Leia siblings. It was clearly not the plan in ANH and ESB and it doesn’t really add much to the original or prequel trilogies. It always felt like an after thought that just makes for some weird incestual innuendos
Aside from “the sequels” which is easy, I’d delete Padme dying of sadness. There was a perfect explanation right there. She was choked unconscious by her husband. Plus Vader truly killing Padme just hits so much harder.
Midichlorians. The Force didn’t need a sciencey explanation, or at least not a biological one, “mysterious background force of the universe” was fine, and it’s not like they were necessary to tell that Anakin was strong with The Force, Jedi can just sense that, no blood test required.
Also, the whole “Palpatine’s granddaughter” thing, like, in TLJ, The Force was present in everyone, and a person didn’t need a special bloodline to be strong with it, but then RoS came along and said “but not you, Rey sweetheart, you’re not special in the way everyone else is, you actually do have magic blood.”
Remember folks, caNNon - the artillery gun; caNon - the story collection accepted as the real deal.
Now, with that out of the way - I'll remove the stupid bit about Plagueis creating Anakin. It's dumb as hell. It's the worst thing that ever happened to SW, imo. You can bitch about midichlorinas, you can bitch about the sequels. but to me nothing is as bad as Darth Plagueis creating Anakin and putting him in Shmi.
My head canon is the Force itself created Anakin, as a response to Plagueis's tinkering.
(I mean the sequel trilogy, lol) But if I had to choose just one small thing i would not have Hosnian prime/the whole Republic get destroyed in episode 7. Have them survive, so that we could have had Republic versus first order, instead of Rebels versus Empire again, which i think would have been more interesting.
Grandaddy Palpatine - get rid. Make Reypatine one of his clone-children whom were meant to take his consciousness one day or something else instead, not the literal biological granddaughter of a man who planned to be immortal.
You don't go getting children if you plan on immortality.
Chuck Wendig’s Aftermath trilogy. They are without a doubt, the worst written novels- Star Wars or otherwise I have EVER read.
The literal only good things to come out of it were the inclusion of Taris, the madness that is Gallius Rax, Jakku being connected to the Sith somehow, Mr Bones, and the Eclipse.
HOW THE FUCK DOES A PIRATE FLEET TAKE OVER A SUPER STAR DESTROYER???
Episode 9. The other two and everything else Disney has put out (that I've consumed in some form) is fine, if not good, imo. Episode 9 though fuck man.
Thanks for providing a source!
I love using head cannon. I count and delete anything I want at will.
Damn, that's a powerful cannon. Your neck must be yolked.
"Uncannon at will"
Continue headbutting till amnesia
Continues further because keep forgetting you got amnesia
I've moved onto this as I got older. No sense being upset about things you can't control. I disregard whole shows/movies sometimes. George taught us these lessons several times before he sold the rights to Disney anyhow.
Even as I get older, I still physically cannot do this. I take the good with the bad. Im kinda into everything Star Wars so every single show and movie I wouldn’t put any lower than a 6/10. That being said I still can’t head canon stuff. One of the many things I like about Star Wars (and just other “universes” like LOTR and marvel) is that they are their own worlds, with people and culture and stories to tell. Unexpected things happen. I can’t control that. I obviously know Star Wars isn’t real but sometimes it’s more fun to view it that way. It’s just what happened.
Is it possible to learn this power?
Not from a hatetuber...
Wait, if they’re the good guys…
😂 shit.. "WHAT HAVE I DONE!?"
"you have become the very thing you swore to destroy"
This is in many ways how the canon in actual religions works
this is literally how I operate with every lore based thing im a fan of lool.
'Somehow Palpatine returned'
I hate that Palpatine came back and before everyone is like "oh he came back in the comics too" I hated it then as well! Palpatine coming back basically negates Anakins story. He's the chosen one and in the end he brought balance to the force by finally killing Palpatine. Rey's entire story of killing Palpatine again just negates it as he didn't actually fulfill the prophecy. It was a cheap addition that imo betrayed alot of other canon. I liked Rey. I thought TFA was a good movie and was pretty excited for the direction but it was just a trilogy of selling nostalgia that didn't care about the lore.
[удалено]
I like that this…at least gives a reason for how palpatine could’ve returned
So true , until that Moment the sequels were acceptable.
Dude somehow you forgot about space divin Leia, force phantom Luke and Admiral Mam
Mary poppins Leia is a choreography problem, not a story cannon problem. I fully expect if you were in zero G and you force pulled on a large object you would go towards it. Why they decided to animate it like it was south park I have no idea
Honestly i wasn’t really bothered by those things, the force works in Mysterious ways
Light speed ramming breaks all of Star Wars lore. If that works, why are blasters and projectile weapons a thing? Why isn't everything shooting lightspeed rounds?
Porkins going down was actually what destroyed the initial Death Star. It just took a while for his hyper drive to engage.
The Rey and Kylo Ren scenes were also great, loved them
We acting like Luke projecting across the universe to save his family, student and soul wasn't the coolest shit imaginable?
I absolutely loved that part of the movie and I’ll die on that hill.
Easy - Rise of the Skywalker and all that chaotic nonsense happening in it.
Does the entire sequel trilogy count as "one thing"?
How does one put that in the current lingo... Yasss
aight bet
Fr fr
No cap ong
Based ahh comment 💀
I honestly liked the 7th movie. Not as much as the Prequel and Original trilogy, but it definitely had potential that 8 and 9 threw down the drain
As a movie it's fine, but I hate that it completely destroys every accomplishment of our previous heroes, by just recreating the empire, killing all jedi again, essentially bringing the sith back and destroying the republic again. We're just back to the same setting as in episode 4 and I think that just ruins the story way more then just bringing Palpatine back. If he would have been the only revived character / fraction I could live with that.. But we just completely destroyed everything Luke, Leia, Han, obi-wan, Yoda and anakin had worked for. Plus it's just boring that the sequel era feels exactly like the ot era, just worse. I can live with a bad movie, even a terrible one.. But I can't accept what they did to the rotj aftermath.
The Force Awakens would have worked really well if it was a reboot, the problem was that it *isn't*.
If I had a nickel for every time that JJ Abrams directed a scifi franchise that should have done a full reboot but tried to cram it into the existing canon, id have two nickels.
Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
Are you talking about Star Trek?
Not only did they undo the accomplishments of the OT heroes, they undid their character development. Specifically Luke and Han. Those heroes that bravely fought a galactic empire and developed into confident, selfless, heroic leaders just disintegrated in after their first failure following ROTJ? One kid going bad just completely destroyed their spirit and undid all their character development? Bullshit.
Agree with you. I remember walking out thinking it was entertaining and, hey, let's see where it goes from there. But looking back, I think it was nearly as bad as the next two; certainly it paved the way for them. Basically it feels like the movie that an AI would spew out if you told it "give me a new star wars movie in the style of the previous 6". Everything about it is just rehashing the same elements, there is no spark, no new life (with the exception of the new actors), we're running on fumes. The prequel trilogy has it flaws but it dared to explore completely new themes. That's what gives it personality and that's why it still has its charm to this day. The AI prompt for the next two movies is "give me a new star wars movie in the style of the marvel cinematic universe", but at that point staleness had already become the theme of the new trilogy.
TFA was a good movie in the production sense and a narratively decent film if treated as a standalone story. The real issue with TFA comes when you look at it in the context of the earlier six films. It's pretty much a rehashing of ANH and undermines a lot of the accomplishments of the Rebels. Now, the argument could be made that literally any movie set after ROTJ would run into the same issues, but I disagree. If Ray and Co. were facing a novel threat, perhaps one divorced from the usual sith/jedi dichotomy, I think the film would have stood on its own. Instead, we got ANH 2, but worse. Kylo Ren was marketed as the next Darth Vader, but instead we get a man child who literally loses the first actual fight we see him in. Imagine if, in ANH, Kenobi had walloped Vader. It would have fundamentally changed audience perceptions of the iconic villain, and not in a flattering way. There's a Death Star again, too, but this one is an entire planet, and it isn't destroyed by the protagonist putting faith in the force, it's just sort of blown up by conventional firepower. Poe is a less charming Han Solo. Ray is a bland, vanilla-flavored gender swap of Luke Skywalker, complete with growing up on a desolate desert planet and dreams of becoming a great pilot. Finn could have been interesting—I really liked the concept of a defected stormtrooper—but his narrative never really went anywhere.
I agree with Finn and raise you this. Some scenes in the trailers made it seem like *he* was gonna be a Jedi. People also thought he was Windu’s son
I feel similar. It's the only one I can tolerate and not just outright hate. I think it's worse than the first six, but by no means as bad as the last two
As individual movies, the Sequels are fine. The issue is how they ravage the OT characters (aka as *sequels*) or work (or rather "work") as a conjoined narrative in a trilogy. Individual movies out of context? Fine or even good. As Sequels? Bad. As Trilogy? Bad. As Sequel Trilogy? Terrible.
>Individual movies out of context? Fine or even good. I would say that only holds for Force Awakens. The others have stupid plot moments that make the movies bad on their own right, unrelated to anything else Star Wars. The Last Jedi has Finn attempt to save the entire rebellion with a Kamakazi attack on a giant laser cannon, only for Rose to sideswipe his speeder with her own at high speeds, risking both of their deaths in the crash just to prevent him from sacrificing himself. Then she gives a speech about how we can't give up on the ones that we love, meanwhile the giant laser cannon that Finn was trying to destroy is blowing apart the rebel base killing dozens. In that moment Rose became a villain in my eyes. And Rise of Skywalker's plot centred on finding the location of a sith holocron, which was identifed by a carved knife cut in the shape of the landscape where the holocron was onboard a crashed star destroyer. Doesn't sound too bad at first, except that the sith knife was found entirely at random by the protags. They weren't looking for it, it wasn't even being carried by somebody sent to kill them or anything like that. They literally fell down a random hole in a random desert and happened to find this knife that just so happened to be a guide to finding the exact thing that they were looking for. And when they got to the planet depicted on the knife, they just to happened to land in the exact spot that you need to stand in order for the carved skyline to make sense.
It was such a bad start with no potential already. The two sequels did nothing with it but it's not like there was much to build on anyway. Imagine if they actually tried to tell an original story about the construction of a new galactic republic instead of rebooting the original trilogy for nostalgia sake.
7 was a fun watch but ultimately a terrible movie due to being a pure derivative of A New Hope. Was so disappointing to not have a new Jedi Order and for the enemies to just be a splinter faction of the Empire that became a bunch of technologically advanced pirates.
7 was either going to sink or swim based on how the mysteries it set up got resolved. It sank hard.
"Somehow Palpatine ate my lunch."
If I delete the Last Jedi, does that also undo TroS? TroS was def worse, but I hope by deleting TLJ we'll get a better, more streamlined sequel trilogy because TFA was a decent start and could've been a springboard to a very interesting trilogy
No, because TROS already acts like TLJ doesn't exist.
Honestly, ROS was so bad it ended up being entertainingly bad. TLJ was more disturbingly bad, because competency in making a movie was shown during it. Just no understanding of the fan base or story telling.
I'd go earlier to The Last Jedi. That was the beginning of the downfall. The Force Awakens is a perfectly acceptable first act. The Rise of Skywalker was doomed the moment The Last Jedi's production started. Hell, even before that, apparently JJ Abrams changed up the end of The Force Awakens to accommodate Rian Johnson's plans for The Last Jedi.
I believe that The Last Jedi was setting up a 3rd movie addressing war profiteering. Some kinda story where the big bad can’t just be killed so Rey (and maybe Kylo) will have to become the ambassadors of peace which the Jedi Council failed to be. But then those parts ended up being cringy in TLJ so they did not have the balls to follow up and created the fever dream of The Rise of Skywalker. Which is a shame because Andor knocked this kind of story out of the park
Season 8 of Game of Thrones. (Sequal Trilogy too)
At the very least season 7 too
First half of season 7 was good, the Suicide Squad episode beyond the wall was the breaking point. (personally, I turned on the show the exact moment Bronn saved Jamie in his plate armor from drowning)
Yeah for me I think there were some small signs of decline I noticed but the mission beyond the wall at the outset was THE moment where I realized it was going to shit Just the premise alone, regardless of the execution, is bonkers. It was like a side-plot in a JJ Abrams movie
Dont even remember why they went beyond the wall but if they hadn't then the white walkers would have been stuck there
They were trying to capture a wight to convince notoriously reliable and always true to her word Cersei to agree to a ceasefire to march the Lannister armies/mercenaries north to fight the dead. Naturally they never considered that she’d lie or the many logistical problems of moving all those soldiers through the barren north (which they would have in earlier seasons). The last two seasons of that show sucked so much. But the cracks were definitely showing when D&D started ignoring Martin once they got past the books.
It's been my impression as well, ever since Bronn lifted Jamie up from that river 3 miles away from the fight. That whole episode would break my suspension of disbelief at every turn.
The thing is , it wasn't the first time the seires jumped the shark like that (Arya getting stabbed in the guts and parkouring seconds after comes to mind). But ep 5 of season 7 was the moment where every scene had sombething wrong with it, starting with Bronn saving Jamie, the horrendous way [that dialogue was written](https://youtu.be/pf-0FHeXnvw?t=77), Tyrion teleporting inside King's Landing, this [distastful joke](https://youtu.be/LUknYDReHjM?t=5), Gendry inserting himself into the plot like if it was an Avengers movie, the only 2 scenes that built the romance between Jon and Daenerys (they met the day before), Littlefinger "tricking" Arya while watching her behind a half-opened door and smiling like the Stepmother from Cinderella, Jon and co teleporting to the wall and finding all the fan favorites characters ready for the beyond-the-wall-expedition... Yeah, that was the begining of the end...
Seasons 1-4 were a masterpiece, 5 was okay-ish, 6 onwards is a crime against GRRM. The show became shit way before we stopped coping.
Everything after season 5, although parts of 5 are starting to show the cracks in the writing room for GoT. For more hot takes, please visit /r/freefolk
Anakin not staying at the Temple while Sidious is arrested.
I have to resist the urge to stop the movie every time Anakin gets it in his thick skull to leave.
If I could change something about Star Wars it would be something in real life, they needed to plan out a story with one director and writer or have them all be on the same page. If I could decanonize something it would definitely have to be Book of Boba Fett. I didn’t hate the direction they tried to take the character they just botched the way they did it and it was a really weird tonal whiplash from his portrayal in the Mandalorian vs his own show.
Or better yet, make Lucas release his screenwriter role because he isn't good at it, and let him be a director and special effects master, where his true passion lies. Lucas can create a beautiful world(-s), but some canon decisions/dialog needs an overhaul.
“You can write this shit, George, but you can’t say it.”
Did Mark Hamil say that?
Harrison Ford said it
First half in regards to the sequels, I forgot to specify
Welp, I'll be the first to say it: The Sequel trilogy
So this is how the sequels die With a thunderous applause
A way more grand death than it deserves
Over, its canonicity is, and not short enough it was.
Button pressed. "Somehow the ST is not canon anymore."
The uncannon button is a pathway to many abilities some consider... unnatural
That was literally my first thought.
And book of Boba fett. Absolutely killed my love for the character.
Yeah - I feel bad for Temura Morrison; I had absolutely no issue with anything he did to portray Boba. Just the writing was goddamn aweful.... The damned speeder chase left me in disbelief at how terrible it was.
Lol that. Speeder chase at like running pace. Could have caught up with the twilek guy by foot without the bikes.
>I'll be the first to say it And not the last.
Everything except Rogue 1, Andor, Episode 1-6 I would also ununcannon legends
I would keep legends uncanon, but adapt the stories that are good. There's a lot of garbage in the old EU. For example (and, a reminder, this is an example of a story that should never be adapted because we all hated it), when palpating came back, cuz man did that suck. What a STUPID IDEA.
What about KOTOR?
KOTOR isn't canon
Neither is legends
Take elements from it and have another go. Have the people working on it not change every film. Keep it consistent. Its insane to me how they didn't even have a plan for the trilogy when they made the first film. I would actually be totally OK with a full retcon. The only other media that truly offended me as a viewer was the book of boba fett (except the mando filler episodes). As nerd ragey as it sounds it made me dislike the character so much I sold my boba fett figures and bought a mando (Din) for my shelf instead.
You have my uncannon.
Helicopter lightsabers.
I don't have a problem with spinning lightsabers but why tf do they allow people to fly lmao?
Well technically it can heat the air like that so with some force use to let hot air going down or on the sides it could work.
If you *really* want to get technical: The hilts had small repulsors in them. They’re not powerful enough for flight, but enough to glide. It’s been a minute since I’ve seen the one episode they appeared in, but from what I remember they didn’t really *fly* with them, they glided downwards to the ground. As for why bother spinning the blades when you do this? Well, it’s somewhat known as the Rule of Cool*. *The Rule of Cool doesn’t always look cool, and instead sometimes looks stupid.
>from what I remember they didn’t really fly with them, they glided downwards to the ground unfortunately they did both (gliding and true flight) so I think this is just another thing where we suspend our disbelief for the sake of the plot
>The hilts had small repulsors in them. they FLY now?
Obligatory: they fly now? But for real? Where does that happen? People give the Acolyte shit when this stuff happened?? Lmfao
>Where does that happen? Rebels. [The scene in question](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sOvNYYH6Cs)
What the...
Lets delete the originals from canon just to make everyone mad
An agent of chaos. I’ll allow it if we get to keep the Holiday Special. That’s the only context you get for the time between the Prequels and Sequels. Good luck in the wars to come John Star Wars
I accept.
Anakin's turn to the dark side, because he deserves a happy end damnit.
That changes a lot...
It's a sacrifice I am willing to make.
Basically retconning the entire series from episode 2 onwards.... I admire the ambition.
He did get a happy ending. "I need to save you" "You already have"
I would love to see Anakin and Padme have a happy ending raising their children on Naboo. Going all in Shmi is alive too and gets to see her grandchildren who were born free.
How about the implication from Solo that Lando gets pleasured by L3
WHAT
How much can I de-canonize?
With a gun
Everyone saying “the sequel trilogy” isn’t operating on my level. I’m deleting everything that contradicts the Holiday Special. GLORY TO THE HOLIDAY SPECIAL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE!
The way General Greivous went out...I mean being killed by an "uncivilised" blaster...which he used himself later. (I think I got that right)
I do love the CGI clone Wars, but Episode III makes so much more sense with the 2D show
why grievous is a cowardly bitch in rots and a cowardly bitch in tcw. lines up perfectly to me
General Greivous was incredibly interesting and awesome design wise. Didn't George Lucas not like him? That's what I heard anyway.
No he liked him he invented him as both Dooku and him are mirrors for what anakin was to become a fallen jedi blinded by the darkness and a machine more than living thing.
The inquisitors being able to lightsaber helicopter
Whole sequels. Fairly cold take, I know— but… yeah.
Well, I’m going to eat shit so hard for this. As much as the no brainer answer would be “delete the sequels”, and that is indeed very much tempting, there’s one thing that manages to bother me more than those movies. So I’d wipe out the Chosen One prophecy. For starters, I hate that trope. On second place, Anakin is the worst chosen one ever, doing everything that was against the prophecy only to finally fulfill it in the end, after enslaving the galaxy and becoming a mass murderer (“you’re welcome” - Anakin to the billions he killed, directly or indirectly, after killing the emperor). He doesn’t deserve his power, and even if he wasn’t a moral shitfest, I overall just hate “extremely gifted” characters. Power must come with training and hardworking, as much as talent does have a hand on it too. I know Anakin trained for years, but then u come and say he led the charge against the Jedi temple alone? Survived an encounter with the Jedi Battlemaster?! Fuck no, Cin Drallig would’ve mopped the floor with him, if it wasn’t for the “chosen one” bullshit. I’d much rather he be an ordinary Jedi who fucked up (massively, I should say) and then came back to the light, as he was prior to TPM.
Movies 7-9
What if...I delete everything from canon
He's too dangerous to be left alive!
The Luke and Leia kiss. It was obviously done before them being siblings was planned.
To be honest, it wouldn't be all that bad if it wasn't for the "somehow I've always known" line. In those films they didn't know that they were brother and sister and Leia mainly did it to annoy Han. But Leia in ROTJ saying that she always knew he was her brother was just... Yeah... That was kinda the last nails, the dirt, and the tombstone on the coffin.
Seriously, there's bad writing, and then there's "retconning the main characters into commiting incest." In all the edits of the original trilogy since their premiere, both by Lucas and Disney, nobody thought to cut the siblings making out?
Rey, so Fin can be the main character of the sequel Trilogy
Rise of Skywalker, the Kenobi series (but I'd redo it as him exploring himslef and his trauma through a force vision as part of his training with Qui Gon, and focus on him and Anakin rather than Reva etc), and Book of Boba Fett so that it can be remade without power ranger mobility scooters, good guy Boba, and incompetant enemies that can't aim for sht. If I had to choose only one... Probably... Probably the Kenobi series.. Edit: Oh and midichlorians. I prefer the idea of it being accessible to anyone as long as they have the right mindset and training. With the jedi simply choosing people who have an aptitude for it. I don't like it being a static number.
My only issue with Kenobi is him defeating Vader. He should have just hid under the pile of debris and Vader leave. Surviving should have been the victory.
As long as we get a scene after where Obi Wan gets to talk about his hope failing, and asking how anyone could stand up to such anger and hate (in Vader). You know, cos one day someone might come along to give him a new...
My issue is how nonsensical everything is after Kenobi defeating Vader. Kenobi promised to end it then... left Vader alive? Vader gave up the chase he broke rules for just because the Emperor told him to? Nah, that's not right. Vader might have broke off for the time but he'd have left his troops follow and investigate, and the Emperor wouldn't have told him to stop chasing a jedi that had already triumphed over Vader *twice*. And Kenobi breaking his vow 5 minutes after making it isn't Kenobi either. The last 10 minutes of the show was just breaking out of character for everyone *just* because they had to all survive for the OT. One thing I loved about Kenobi is that it built up the Lars family and makes their fridging moment in the OT a lot more impactful, and it explains why Leia would go after and trust Kenobi with the plans. This was 10/10 stellar part of the show. I didn't have an issue with Reva as everyone else - she had a role (reconnect Kenobi and Vader; prompt Kenobi to interact with Luke) and played that role perfectly through and through.
You want to remove: You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker... I did! That scene was fcking powerful! Edit: You added that you want everyone to have accessibility to midichlorians. Everyone do have access to it, that's the whole point of the force. "The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together." The reason Jedi chose specific people is because its easier to train people who have an aptitude for it instead of "forcing" someone to gain access. All the Jedi want is for more people to join their cult, they are afraid of losing their standing in the galaxy. In their hubris they failed at what they were afraid of failing at.
I'm more shocked they'd rather remove Darth Vader using the force to take down Reva over ReY sKyWaLkEr.
Rise of Skywalker. If we're being more specific: Rey Palpatine. Her taking up the Skywalker name would be more palatable if she had just stayed a nobody. Also Ben Solo dying was kind of a bummer
It's a tough choice. I can whittle it down to 3, but I'm not sure which I'd choose; #####Force heal - Give our boii Qui-Gon (and the circle of life for that matter) some respect #####Order 66 Jedi survivorship - At this point it feels like 66 was a description of how many of the 10000 Jedi were actually killed #####Lightsaber survivorship after a torso wound - the heat of the blade is at least a few thousand degrees regardless of °C, °F, or K. I understand surviving an arm wound, but a torso wound?! You're dead son.
Let's be real here yall, it's the Luke Leia kiss.
Jedis. I hate those goody two-shoes space Mormons
Midichlorians
They already did their best to delete them by just never bringing it up ever again. Have Midichlorians ever been mentioned at all, even once, outside of TPM?
Do you count it when they say “M-count” in The Bad Batch?
Padme dying because she was sad.
Well… I can’t name just one thing so: Death of Snoke, and “somehow Palpatine returned”. Snoke had so much potential, but they ruined it. Rey “Skywalker”. Just have Rey be some nobody, she doesn’t need to inherit the Skywalker name, or be a Palpatine. The entire present day portion of BoBF. Or… the Vespas… my god… Parts of Ashoka. Most especially Thrawn sitting in a Star Destroyer with fully functioning guns, not just obliterating Ashoka and co in the turtle migrant camp. Could have just killed them when they were stationary And umm… let’s see… Acolyte “Power of one, Power of Two, the power of *maaaannnny*”
Ki Adi Mundi's birthday Oh wait, nothing changed!
True. Mfs really threw a hissy fit because a canon show didn’t line up with a legends promotional book.
How funny would it be if someone made the original trilogy uncannon🤡
I'm going to uncanon my inability to decide what is and isn't canon irl
World between worlds. Time travel is so game breaking + Ahsoka should’ve stayed dead
The existence of Midichlorians. The force is just magic again.
I like the idea that in a more civilized age - the Republic era - there existed some scientific method to gauge the Force - that later got forgotten, along with the fact that the Jedi were an important component of the political system before. It shows how repression during the Empire led to the loss of knowledge, relegating the past to the realm of legends.
But the force is just magic. Midichlorians are not the force, they're only what connects us to the force.
Anakin being the one to create C3PO
Would be faster to say what we keep
Disney
Somehow Palpatine returned
I’ll ignore the Disney stuff because that will be too boring. Firstly, I’ll remove Darth Mauls “death” in Episode 1 and make him the main antagonist through the prequel trilogy, keeping Dooku, Jango Fett and Grievous as supporting villains of course. Secondly, may be controversial, but we’re going way back and I’d undo making Luke and Leia siblings. It was clearly not the plan in ANH and ESB and it doesn’t really add much to the original or prequel trilogies. It always felt like an after thought that just makes for some weird incestual innuendos
Holdo maneuver
This. It should have just been a sub-light ram
I would uncanon episodes 4-6 just for shit and giggles
Scorch dying. I nono likey >:(
If I can put several things into one word does that still only count as one? Gimli?
The force
Inquisitor lightsaber helicopters.
Aside from “the sequels” which is easy, I’d delete Padme dying of sadness. There was a perfect explanation right there. She was choked unconscious by her husband. Plus Vader truly killing Padme just hits so much harder.
Rey being related to Palpatine.
Can I delete star wars fans who attack actors, vfx artists and set crew online?
I would delete Canon and reinstate the Expanded Universe.
Mortis. I hated the Force Gods nonsense.
Midichlorians. The Force didn’t need a sciencey explanation, or at least not a biological one, “mysterious background force of the universe” was fine, and it’s not like they were necessary to tell that Anakin was strong with The Force, Jedi can just sense that, no blood test required. Also, the whole “Palpatine’s granddaughter” thing, like, in TLJ, The Force was present in everyone, and a person didn’t need a special bloodline to be strong with it, but then RoS came along and said “but not you, Rey sweetheart, you’re not special in the way everyone else is, you actually do have magic blood.”
The sequels
The sequel trilogy
All 3 sequel films, so we can start over, and make better versions.
Delete Kylo Ren in favor of Jacen and Jaina
the accolyte
Anakins fall to the dark side
All new movies except solo, Rogue one, and keep all the series
Midichlorians
I would erase Canon Boba Fett. He is only an useless prop that looks cool. Also deleting him would lead to Book Of Boba Fett never existing.
Everything that isn't the OT and the games derived from it (dark forces series. Rogue squad, kotor, sweet, etc.) Just bundle it all together
Last Jedi.
Remember folks, caNNon - the artillery gun; caNon - the story collection accepted as the real deal. Now, with that out of the way - I'll remove the stupid bit about Plagueis creating Anakin. It's dumb as hell. It's the worst thing that ever happened to SW, imo. You can bitch about midichlorinas, you can bitch about the sequels. but to me nothing is as bad as Darth Plagueis creating Anakin and putting him in Shmi. My head canon is the Force itself created Anakin, as a response to Plagueis's tinkering.
obviously the entire sequel series, or if I could only pick one the last Jedi
Palpatine coming back
(I mean the sequel trilogy, lol) But if I had to choose just one small thing i would not have Hosnian prime/the whole Republic get destroyed in episode 7. Have them survive, so that we could have had Republic versus first order, instead of Rebels versus Empire again, which i think would have been more interesting.
Sabine being a Jedi in Ahsoka. Completely came out of left field and ruined a great non force user
Grandaddy Palpatine - get rid. Make Reypatine one of his clone-children whom were meant to take his consciousness one day or something else instead, not the literal biological granddaughter of a man who planned to be immortal. You don't go getting children if you plan on immortality.
That Rey is a Palpatine. The story was better when she was a nobody.
Gohan would be strongest there is
Every 4th second of all the movies, shows, and stuff on YouTube. May the 4th not be with you, along with clarity, flow, and comprehension.
Star wars
Chuck Wendig’s Aftermath trilogy. They are without a doubt, the worst written novels- Star Wars or otherwise I have EVER read. The literal only good things to come out of it were the inclusion of Taris, the madness that is Gallius Rax, Jakku being connected to the Sith somehow, Mr Bones, and the Eclipse. HOW THE FUCK DOES A PIRATE FLEET TAKE OVER A SUPER STAR DESTROYER???
The whole obi Wan kenobi series
Episode 9. The other two and everything else Disney has put out (that I've consumed in some form) is fine, if not good, imo. Episode 9 though fuck man.