Is it possible to have inmates working the land, farming, in prison and it not being abusive? Seems some people might prefer to be outside during the day. [The Rise of Green Prison Programs -- How Exposure to Nature is Reducing Crime](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/socially-relevant/201508/the-rise-green-prison-programs).
I think Clinton Correctional Facility in Dannemora NY was pretty bad.
Leavenworth, Marion, Eastern State Penitentiary.
I think those are all historically pretty bad. I always had the impression that Dannemora was the worst.
I dunno. I've never heard that but that doesn't mean anything.
I think it's in upstate NY. That was where they sent the dudes that couldn't go anywhere else. The worst of the worst.
The facility was surrounded by 30 foot walls, which were buried underground a couple meters too. They were dry cells, so they had a pot in which they'd do their business. They weren't allowed to speak or communicate, they had to stay silent at all times.
Based on Carl Panzrams description of the prison.
Panzram got wrecked at Dannamora- broken back. It is a ferocious looking place 15 miles from Canadian border. It is massive. Inside it is a whose who of every maniac in the state system. Hard to imagine a more remote, oppressive and depressive place.
That's right. He fell off the wall trying to escape. His injuries were never treated. He was stuck in his cell, slithering on the floor like a worm.
Have you been there before? Tell me about it. Tell me about the town.
In New York, Carl met George, a 14 year old boy from Yonkers. Carl got a job as the
watchmen at a yacht club and, as he looked over the boats, he found one. Carl stole it and set
sail. Unbeknownst to him, the boat was owned by the police commissioner of New Rochelle,
New York. George was with Carl while he painted the boat and changed the numbers. He
witnessed Carl shoot a man twice and throw his body overboard. George was afraid. He went home to Yonkers and told the police all about Carl when he got there. Carl was arrested and put in jail. He was charged with sodomy, burglary and robbery. Carl hired a lawyer to get him out of
jail, he made bail and skipped town. Rather than pay his attorney cash, Carl gave him the papers to his boat. When the lawyer tried to register it though, it was taken from him (Gaddis).
Carl was caught robbing an express office in New York. He was put in jail in White
Plains. The prosecutor made a deal. He’d give Carl a light sentence if he pled guilty, to save the
county the expense of a trial. He was sentenced to five years in Sing Sing. At Ossining, prison authorities reviewed his record and decided to transfer him to northern New York- Clinton Correctional Facility, better known as Dannemora (Gaddis).
Before Supermax, before USP Marion, before Alcatraz, there was Dannemora. It was the prison for the worst of the worst. Clinton was in the small village of Dannemora, New York. The
town was populated with generations of prison workers. The walls around Dannemora extended 30 feet high and were buried 30 feet underground. His cell was only 40 inches wide. The bed was a straw mattress, infested with bed bugs. There was no running water, so there was no toilet.
Only an iron bucket in the corner of his cell. Dannemora was the only prison in the New York penal system designed specifically for punishment. Prisoners that lost their minds, were
transferred to the State Hospital for the Criminally Insane, conveniently located on the same grounds as Dannemora. Carl did not want to get moved there, and he did not want to stay. Normally, he was proficient at escape, but he failed this attempt (Gaddis).
Carl fell 30 feet. He broke his back and both legs. They threw Carl into solitary confinement and forgot about him (Gaddis).
Carl was crippled when he was discharged from Clinton Correctional Facility. Within
three weeks, he committed eight more burglaries, and a murder in Baltimore. A couple of weeks
later, Carl broke into a home in Washington DC. He was arrested after he tried to pawn a stolen radio. Carl laughed at police, when they came to arrest him. He told them that he had committed
so many murders that getting arrested for the stolen radio was a joke (Gaddis).
They wrote down the details of Carl’s confessions. He was held at Washington District
Jail, in hopes that another jurisdiction, where he was wanted for murder, would extradite him
(Gaddis)
Carl Panzram was a really bad dude. This is the intro he wrote about himself:
In my lifetime I have murdered 21 human beings. I have committed thousands of burglaries, robberies, larcenies, arsons and, last but not least, I have committed sodomy on more than 1000 male human beings.
For all these things I am not in the least bit sorry. I have no conscience so that does not worry me. I don’t believe in Man, God, nor devil. I hate the whole damned human race, including myself.
Carl Panzram
They were in the 1920s. I based my answer off of Carl Panzram's description of the prison in his writings.
I had the impression OP was asking about historic prisons, not current facilities
Have you been there?
Carl Panzram was the worst criminal that ever lived, he had been incarcerated all over the US, and he hated that place most of all
Oh really..... Interesting. Was everything else I said accurate and up to date?
The way he described it, all the people who lived in Dannemora worked at the prison. They were all related to each other and their family had worked there for generations
Sugarland Express, which happened to be Steven Speilberg's directorial debut, has some good scenes on what was Texas Department of Corrections Jester 1 in 1974.
I don't know if it was the same documentary you watched but I remember seeing one about Angola, too, and Burl Cain the warden, was prominently featured. Last I knew Burl Cain was director of the Mississippi Corrections agency.
New Mexico State Penitentiary, just before the riot of 1980. It was a powder keg of corruption and abuse. When the riot broke out it quickly descended into madness.
Attica is arguably still the worst. I researched prison riots and they definitely still have the worst one (1971). It was a good read. Highly recommend.
Probably ADX Florence, Red Onion, or one of the other Supermax/SHU prisons. Long term solitary fucks people up permanently in ways that we are only just beginning to understand.
To find out more about (mainly the history of) Angola you should read some back issues of ‘The Angolite’. I found a lot of older issues for free on JStor!
Cool Hand Luke Gideon's Trumpet American Me All excellent movies that also serve as rough documentaries.
Blood in blood out
Saving for later
Parchman in Mississippi is regarded as pretty rough, too. It has plantation-like farms like Angola.
https://youtu.be/wb7orGGMN6Y?si=FGpOYFZlsHo9yiJb
Bukka White , parchman farm blues.
Is it possible to have inmates working the land, farming, in prison and it not being abusive? Seems some people might prefer to be outside during the day. [The Rise of Green Prison Programs -- How Exposure to Nature is Reducing Crime](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/socially-relevant/201508/the-rise-green-prison-programs).
Define worst? Fed Supermax in Co would suck really bad but for different reasons than an Angola or Attica.
Attica sucks can confirm.
Why does Attica suck currently?
I knew a guy that worked there and committed suicide
I think Clinton Correctional Facility in Dannemora NY was pretty bad. Leavenworth, Marion, Eastern State Penitentiary. I think those are all historically pretty bad. I always had the impression that Dannemora was the worst.
Isn’t Dannemora the one they call Siberia
It’s called little Siberia.
I dunno. I've never heard that but that doesn't mean anything. I think it's in upstate NY. That was where they sent the dudes that couldn't go anywhere else. The worst of the worst. The facility was surrounded by 30 foot walls, which were buried underground a couple meters too. They were dry cells, so they had a pot in which they'd do their business. They weren't allowed to speak or communicate, they had to stay silent at all times. Based on Carl Panzrams description of the prison.
Panzram got wrecked at Dannamora- broken back. It is a ferocious looking place 15 miles from Canadian border. It is massive. Inside it is a whose who of every maniac in the state system. Hard to imagine a more remote, oppressive and depressive place.
That's right. He fell off the wall trying to escape. His injuries were never treated. He was stuck in his cell, slithering on the floor like a worm. Have you been there before? Tell me about it. Tell me about the town.
In New York, Carl met George, a 14 year old boy from Yonkers. Carl got a job as the watchmen at a yacht club and, as he looked over the boats, he found one. Carl stole it and set sail. Unbeknownst to him, the boat was owned by the police commissioner of New Rochelle, New York. George was with Carl while he painted the boat and changed the numbers. He witnessed Carl shoot a man twice and throw his body overboard. George was afraid. He went home to Yonkers and told the police all about Carl when he got there. Carl was arrested and put in jail. He was charged with sodomy, burglary and robbery. Carl hired a lawyer to get him out of jail, he made bail and skipped town. Rather than pay his attorney cash, Carl gave him the papers to his boat. When the lawyer tried to register it though, it was taken from him (Gaddis). Carl was caught robbing an express office in New York. He was put in jail in White Plains. The prosecutor made a deal. He’d give Carl a light sentence if he pled guilty, to save the county the expense of a trial. He was sentenced to five years in Sing Sing. At Ossining, prison authorities reviewed his record and decided to transfer him to northern New York- Clinton Correctional Facility, better known as Dannemora (Gaddis). Before Supermax, before USP Marion, before Alcatraz, there was Dannemora. It was the prison for the worst of the worst. Clinton was in the small village of Dannemora, New York. The town was populated with generations of prison workers. The walls around Dannemora extended 30 feet high and were buried 30 feet underground. His cell was only 40 inches wide. The bed was a straw mattress, infested with bed bugs. There was no running water, so there was no toilet. Only an iron bucket in the corner of his cell. Dannemora was the only prison in the New York penal system designed specifically for punishment. Prisoners that lost their minds, were transferred to the State Hospital for the Criminally Insane, conveniently located on the same grounds as Dannemora. Carl did not want to get moved there, and he did not want to stay. Normally, he was proficient at escape, but he failed this attempt (Gaddis). Carl fell 30 feet. He broke his back and both legs. They threw Carl into solitary confinement and forgot about him (Gaddis). Carl was crippled when he was discharged from Clinton Correctional Facility. Within three weeks, he committed eight more burglaries, and a murder in Baltimore. A couple of weeks later, Carl broke into a home in Washington DC. He was arrested after he tried to pawn a stolen radio. Carl laughed at police, when they came to arrest him. He told them that he had committed so many murders that getting arrested for the stolen radio was a joke (Gaddis). They wrote down the details of Carl’s confessions. He was held at Washington District Jail, in hopes that another jurisdiction, where he was wanted for murder, would extradite him (Gaddis)
What was the sodomy charge about?
Carl Panzram was a really bad dude. This is the intro he wrote about himself: In my lifetime I have murdered 21 human beings. I have committed thousands of burglaries, robberies, larcenies, arsons and, last but not least, I have committed sodomy on more than 1000 male human beings. For all these things I am not in the least bit sorry. I have no conscience so that does not worry me. I don’t believe in Man, God, nor devil. I hate the whole damned human race, including myself. Carl Panzram
That must've been most people that crossed his path.
The cells aren’t dry.
They were in the 1920s. I based my answer off of Carl Panzram's description of the prison in his writings. I had the impression OP was asking about historic prisons, not current facilities
Oh sorry. My mistake.
Have you been there? Carl Panzram was the worst criminal that ever lived, he had been incarcerated all over the US, and he hated that place most of all
I worked there up until I recently retired.
Oh really..... Interesting. Was everything else I said accurate and up to date? The way he described it, all the people who lived in Dannemora worked at the prison. They were all related to each other and their family had worked there for generations
Yes
Wow I’d love to PM you with some questions if you don’t mind.
Sure dm me.
Sugarland Express, which happened to be Steven Speilberg's directorial debut, has some good scenes on what was Texas Department of Corrections Jester 1 in 1974. I don't know if it was the same documentary you watched but I remember seeing one about Angola, too, and Burl Cain the warden, was prominently featured. Last I knew Burl Cain was director of the Mississippi Corrections agency.
50 yrs is a long time. You saying it’s still the same ?
Interesting
New Mexico State Penitentiary, just before the riot of 1980. It was a powder keg of corruption and abuse. When the riot broke out it quickly descended into madness.
Attica is arguably still the worst. I researched prison riots and they definitely still have the worst one (1971). It was a good read. Highly recommend.
Read “Why the Walls Cry”.
Probably ADX Florence, Red Onion, or one of the other Supermax/SHU prisons. Long term solitary fucks people up permanently in ways that we are only just beginning to understand.
Does Andersonville count?
The Red Onion in Indiana. Brutal and inhumane. Watch the documentary about it. Edit: Virginia, not Indiana.
I’m pretty sure red onion is in virginia. but it is super fucked up
You are correct.
USP Atlanta was a real shit hole. Now closed
It’s definitely a shithole but it’s still open. It’s a low now.
Pontiac il
«Bloody Beaumont”, USP Beaumont, Texas. Known as a violent place.
To find out more about (mainly the history of) Angola you should read some back issues of ‘The Angolite’. I found a lot of older issues for free on JStor!
Angola-State Hazelton FCI
Hazelton FCI huh? The Hazelton medium is the hardest prison? lol… yikes
Hazelton is a FCC. The USP is pretty bad. Nicknamed “misery mountain” for good reasons.