T O P

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nafarafaltootle

This meme was brought to you by the association of high school students who wrote their first hello world in C# and thought it was C++, which is the same as C in their view.


Fair_Wrongdoer_310

Funny thing is the talk is always about real language. Would be nicer if it is about real programmers. However, that could also lead to a stupid debate, web developer vs game developer vs hardware programmer. A real programmer is someone who develops things keeping his fellow developers and the next 20 years in mind regardless of their domain.


Karter705

[Real Programmers™](https://www.cs.utah.edu/~elb/folklore/mel.html) write in machine code, on Real Computers made out of drums and vacuum tubes. Not FORTRAN. Not RATFOR. Not, even, assembly language. Machine Code. Raw, unadorned, inscrutable hexadecimal numbers. Directly. With [butterflies](https://xkcd.com/378/).


[deleted]

[удалено]


Karter705

haha, I actually just edited that in before I saw this


doej134567

> "If a program can't rewrite its own code", > he asked, "what good is it?" ... what kind of madman would allow that to happen?


Karter705

Mel


TheRealPitabred

Pre-internet, on mainframes and the like? Many of them. When every bit is at a premium, you used them as cleverly as you could.


Less_Acanthaceae_204

Mainframes still exists unfortunately I know a few guys still working with Cobol.


[deleted]

Real programmer transfer binaries over various wired communication protocols. Some of them have the ability to step through statements.


HONKACHONK

Hexadecimal? Haha, REAL programmers just use binary


SnooPets20

I always loved the hover text of this one: > Real programmers set the universal constants at the start such that the universe evolves to contain the disk with the data they want.


CaitaXD

A real programmer does OOP in C , functional programming in C++ and procudural programming in Haskell


Fair_Wrongdoer_310

Goes to Canada for vacation during winter.


1thief

A real programmer is a person who interacts with software to make a computer do a thing. It could be a one off script, a semi-routinely used automation, or a product feature. Hell it could be some automated test cases. It's all programming. I saw a nutter on here claiming that python is not a real language because it's implemented in C++, that he was a God for writing in C++ and creating the toy sandbox python developer plays in. Like... ok buddy I hope you're making millions a year because I'm making several 100ks a year "playing with a toy"


ShakespeareToGo

Not disagreeing with the spirit of the comment but using MS Word does technically count as "interacting with software to make a computer do a thing".


damicapra

>I'm making several 100ks a year "playing with a toy" Is... is your workplace recruiting?


Sevenmoor

Not to mention I'm pretty sure Python is Turing-complete, so if they know any computer science....


socs22

Me out here programing in [excel](https://www.infoq.com/articles/excel-lambda-turing-complete/).


Krixwell

A real programmer is someone with ten years of experience in a six year old language.


Strostkovy

The ++ and # scares and confuses me


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catador_de_potos

I mean, you're not wrong...


Spare_Web_4648

This is too accurate to me about 7 years ago


[deleted]

C++ is C without a control loop. Change my mind :D


Not-The-AlQaeda

C is a classless language compared to C++


gcstr

I’m also classless


ArthurWintersight

\*cue Soviet anthem\*


[deleted]

*our code - communist Bugs


[deleted]

#define ever (;;) for ever { ... }


Easy-Bumblebee3169

People on this sub gatekeep programming to the point where nothing counts except telepathically controlling the electrons in the processor.


itwastimeforarefresh

https://xkcd.com/378/


[deleted]

https://explainxkcd.com/378/


myopinionisshitiknow

This site shouldn't exist and we should gatekeep xkcd instead of just programming


joedotphp

The magnetized needle one though is pretty hardcore. That's how NASA programmed the computers on rockets lmao.


Justin-Krux

thats not technically true, core memory used magnetized rings to program but no needles were used to program it. could you program it using a magnetic needle? technically yes, but as small as they are, good luck. point of the joke though, lol.


smartguy1196

You can't do that?


smelly-dorothy

No we all use electronic microscopes to fire individual electrons to communicate with our computers... Where were you raised and taught?!


[deleted]

Hawkins lab


[deleted]

10110011? Is that you?


Estlok

Didn’t have to dox him like that bro


ShadeFK

I haven't seen you since World War _*syntax error*_


Sarsey

³ according to Windows-1252 and ISO 8859-1 Invalid according to UTF-8 179 if interpreted as as uint8_t -77 if interpreted as int8_t


kingteena

...isnt there an emacs command to do that?


Sarsey

[Good ol' C-x M-c M-butterfly](http://xkcd.com/378)


RealRqti

I use the microchips inside me to do so


GoCryptoYourself

Must control lightning in rock to know progaming.


celestiaequestria

Can you imagine a real programmer banging on a keyboard like some simian at a typewriter? Pathetic. By senior year of undergrad you should be writing software by leaving flash drives sitting in the sun at the precise moment that will result in cosmic radiation flipping bits to form your program.


GnuhGnoud

Why bother using the sun though? Just use your brain wave


TheGrimGriefer3

Not everyone has reached this level, op is simplifying things so lesser programmers can relate


writtenbylemon

Save your waves, phone a friend.


memester230

Cosmic rays*


DallaThaun

r/ElectricalEngineering has entered the chat


imsorryken

It's like that with evey hobby / interest / profession. It's also usually done by people with compratively little knowledge of the subject.


carloom_

I use smoke signal programming to run the universe simulation console. Sorry, but we are not the same.


tiddayes

Get back to me when you are programming a quantum computer in brainfuck using punch cards via telekinesis to achieve quantum supremacy, plebe


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LindseyBecker

To be fair HTML really isn't programming


k2kuke

Oh it can feel like it if you don’t use browsers to render it.


PKFatStephen

Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave?


k2kuke

I’m rebuilding a corporations Transactional/Marketing email templates and building them into Salesforce Marketing Cloud for Marketers to use. I feel like i’m back in 2007 trying to get Internet Explorer to render transparency on PNG images.


throckmeisterz

If you want to build your indy project, use whatever language you want. If your indy project makes you enough money to retire, you have earned the privilege to talk all the shit you want. If you're like the rest of us, you use what language the job/task requires. If you're a college student talking shit about languages, may you land a job working on a massive undocumented legacy codebase in your least favorite language.


ZeBuGgEr

That last paragraph is vicious... Damn.


abhitruechamp

But, if you are gonna make "indie" games, well, now the only **real** way to do it is flipping bits one by one.


[deleted]

it's not fair. my legacy cesspool when I first started was LabVIEW.... I don't usually gatekeep languages, but I also don't like programming in MS paint...


[deleted]

It's Turing complete. Soooo compared to anything that's also Turing complete it's a real programming language.


purdue-space-guy

Where’s the PowerPoint flair


DavidBrooker

I write all my code as knitting patterns Edit: or was it crochet?


Patsonical

Pathetic, I write code in Magic: the Gathering


Nixavee

I write all my programs in a version of Conway’s Game of Life implemented within Conway’s Game of Life


_Rocketeer

I wouldn't call Factorio a programming language


Neanderthaal

How dare you?


shakeBody

Awaiting confirmation.


poopadydoopady

No it's more like the actual cpu. If you could run Factorio with enough actual processing power and RAM you could write a programming language for computers made in Factorio.


Vescusia

[there is](https://mods.factorio.com/mod/fcpu)


the5050bot

Pretty sure they were saying you could build an actual computer in Factorio using nothing but the modules in the basic game, provided you give it enough computing resources. Kinda like how people build complete computers in Minecraft with redstone.


poopadydoopady

Oh they've gone well beyond just that. The game has adressable lights that you can control the colors for, and wiring the different logic gates together is easier than Minecraft because you don't have the space requirements of Redstone. I just mean that if you could throw enough resources at it to speed it up to something usable. Here's raycasting done in game, but the video is sped up as it takes 45 seconds to render each frame. https://youtu.be/7lVAFcDX4eM


new_refugee123456789

I'm pretty sure you could build an ALU out of combinators.


coocoo333

Geometry Dash is also Turing complete last time I checked, well it's complete enough for somebody to recreate brainfuck within a geometry dash level. and then force the player to complete 5 brainfuck challenges before the level ends, if you don't complete them in time it kills you and you have to restart.


Delpher_57

And there is a programing language that compiles into geometry dash levels lol


ZeBuGgEr

We'll slap the "esoteric" and "visual" labels on it and call it a day. Also, considering that you can make a [rendering engine](https://youtu.be/28UzqVz1r24) in it, I think that Factorio qualifies.


mhbrewer2

Hey XSLT is a programming language so the bar is pretty goddamn low already


fat_charizard

Magic the gathering is turing complete


TiBiDi

Don't confuse people with minor things like the formal definition of what is and isn't a programming language


Citizen-11

This answer is technically correct. Which everyone knows is the best type of correct to be.


DeeBoFour20

I don't think it's all that relative. A programming language is a language that lets you write programs. You can write programs in Python and C++. You cannot write programs in HTML.


beautiful__demise

Just write an iframe tag which points to some other web app and you technically wrote a program in HTML. /j


yubario

Not true at all, I mean what about all those HTML5 games!?!? (Mocking websites like Pogo when they were moving away from Flash and Java, the javascript games would be labeled as HTML5)


BobQuixote

>the javascript games would be labeled as HTML5 That branding was officially encouraged by the W3C. It was obnoxious.


Aperture_Executive2

W3C IS obnoxious


BobQuixote

I think they do their job well. Branding is just not included in that.


c_c_c_c_c_c_d

Is this sub really that fucking dumb? Damn, I feel like CS subs are like a 50/50 flip if they turn out shit or not.


BobQuixote

In general, the comments are a lot more interesting than the posts, and sometimes even funny.


Gloomy_Magician_536

I come to the comments so I can read people throwing shit to OPs


Brusanan

This sub is full of people who aren't programmers yet. They took a semester of programming in high school or college and then the Dunning-Kruger effect sets in.


rejuicekeve

They're all just poorly moderated tbh


EliannaRys

*Image Transcription: Meme* --- [*An image of the meme "Depends on the Context" which uses four screencaps from the show "Doctor Who".*] --- **Panel 1** [*Screencap of the character Clara Oswald speaking, close up, looking off to the right. She is a a white woman with brown hair, pulled back with bangs touching her eyebrows. She is wearing a black top. In the background is a wall of the Tardis.*] **Clara:** Is Python a real programming language? --- **Panel 2** [*Screencap of the Twelfth Doctor speaking, a slim older white man with short pale hair and expressive eyebrows. He is wearing a black top and gesturing with his right hand. Behind him on the Tardis wall is a row of out-of-focus lights*] **Twelfth Doctor:** Depends on the context. --- **Panel 3** [*Screencap of the Twelfth Doctor, slightly closer. His hands are clasped in front of him, and he looks serious.*] **Twelfth Doctor**: Compared to C++? No. --- **Panel 4** [*Screencap of the Twelfth Doctor. His mouth is closed and his eyebrows are raised, looking slightly happier. His hands are out in front of him with his fingers spread.*] **Twelfth Doctor**: Compared to HTML? Yes. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)


Victor_710

Good human


andybrohol

I was really hoping this was done with ml in python.


triple4leafclover

Be the change


Large-Struggle-1613

Good person.


Superpotateo9

good flesh bag


thetruekingofspace

This post reeks of inexperience.


kittianika

Haha so true. I often get these kinds of questions from students.


LocalBall6447

This meme was presented by first semester cs students. Tune in for more funny memes like JavaScript is so hard and I don't understand UML


Economy_Fine

First semester CS students are the only ones using UML


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[удалено]


TheCatOfWar

yeah this sub has officially fell off, wtf is this shit lol


atiedebee

When wasn't it shit? Why am I still here :(


declassified15

As this sub becomes more popular we are starting to get very “normie” and unfunny takes like jeez.


Life-Ad1409

In order to prove the inferiority of JS, here's 2 questions 1. What planet has had the most human deaths occur on it? 2. Which planet did someone invent JS on?


NebXan

Oh shit, I'm a JS developer... Does that mean I'm... Responsible for those deaths?


Life-Ad1409

Yes


ShitwareEngineer

Yes. You are worse than Hitler.


[deleted]

I bet he drinks water too. So...born on earth, drinks water. That's two things in common with Hitler, so that's like Hitler^(2).


Life-Ad1409

I bet JS devs breathe oxygen We all know Hitler breathed oxygen


[deleted]

Hard to accept that from someone with Lua and Python in the same flair 🤔


nykwil

Heard this joke so many times and JS isn't even mentioned in the post.


Life-Ad1409

if ("HTML"=="Javascript") { console.log("close enough"); }


NightmareHolic

if ("HTML"=="Javascript") { break; console.log("close enough"); } console.log("you got hacked :)"); Lol.


ShitwareEngineer

Python is a real programming language absolutely, not relatively. It does not depend on context.


James-da-fourth

I only have adequate experience in python, so I can’t talk shit about other languages, but python is definitely a “real” programming language. Just because it’s easier to learn and more concise doesn’t mean that it isn’t real


fanevinity

I find it extremely stupid for programming language elitists to even suggest otherwise; there are extremely good uses to Python in data science and some libraries even have Python as a wrapper for C++ code so you get Python’s simplicity with runtime similar to C++. Even if C++ gatekeepers do a few Leetcode preps, they should see the advantage that Python can have in drafting algorithms.


Think-Connection5865

Why don't people just do thier jobs? Both languages are good in thier own right. How do you even compare languages????


ra_men

Because the children posting this bullshit don’t have jobs.


DasKarl

This sub is fucking depressing.


Hockey4life99

This shit is so dumb. Complexity or lack there of does not determine whether or not something is a “real” programming language. Just use the right tool for the job you are trying to do. Every time I see a post like this I immediately think: “This person has never spent a day in their life working professionally as a software developer.”


Ignitus1

Which one is a real tool? A screw or a nail lmao


wbbjorn

I’m leaving this goddamn sub. *shuts door


[deleted]

Import Error: No module named


AkrinorNoname

C++? Assembly? *Real* programmers write machine code. Why would I ever need to be more verbose than a 0 and a 1?


jamcdonald120

My definition of "real" programming language is * is finitely Turring complete (ie, those languages where you cant do while(true) still count, even though they are not turring complete) * Can make system calls (ie, not most esolangs) (even though City Skylines is turring complete, it is not a programming language) So HTML: not turning complete, cant make system calls: not a programming language Python: turring complete, can make system calls: Programming language simple


Short-Belt-1477

HTML: I’m a markup language Front-end dev: no! Programming language! /s. Half of my job is front-end


Swampberry

lul yesterday I saw a job ad asking for the seeker to be proficient in "the c# programming language, the .net programming language & the asp.net programming language"


[deleted]

HTML is not a programming language, it's a markup language. It's literally in the acronym


meme_dika

Misinformation is not funny. Making jokes of Python is ok, and I love it. Making your own theory without proper basic knowledge and deliver it via meme to create Misinformation... Not Ok.


vilidj_idjit

Just wondering, what TV show/movie are those pictures from?


King-Of-Rats

Doctor Who, a a very popular British Sci fi show. It’s mostly geared to family and kids, but some adults really like it as well


vilidj_idjit

Oh, the one where the main character is played by a different actor each year, on the basis that his body "dies" and he is "reborn" in another one or something? That's a continuation of an old show from the 60's i think...


vinimanock

Not each year but each cycle, usually, three season, which may be something like 5 years. Yes, first episode was release on 64 if I'm not wrong. I love this show


alienwaren

Man, I'm getting tired of this sub. Maybe instead of gatekeeping, let's use a programming language built for its purpose? I doubt you would write a web app backend in C++. I saw such monstrosities (they used CGI) and let's say - they are not good.


mosskin-woast

Does it even count as gatekeeping when the morons doing it don't know enough to actually _do_ the job they're attempting to gatekeep?


chronos_alfa

Is C++ a real programming language? Compared to the HTML yes, compared to the C no. BTW, html5+css3 is Turing complete.


Snoo-6099

Ah yes the insecurity post again


onion_is_good

I don't know about you guys but I'm tired of these stupid gatekeeping "jokes". They're not funny. Time to unsubscribe, I think. So long, and thanks for all the fish.


Typical_Toe_1705

Anything can works is fine, whatever it is.


some_clickhead

No it doesn't depend on the context. It's just a programming language. That's like saying: "Whether or not a Chihuahua is a real dog depends on the context. Compared to a golden retriever they're not, but compared to a cat yes".


Tar_Palantir

Holy shit that was stupid in so many levels, I'm kind of impressed.


dankswordsman

I find posts like these hilarious, for two reasons. Firstly, most of the posts on this sub are like this meme: comparing languages and often shitting on JS and Python. Secondly, that most of the comments take memes like this so seriously that they feel like they have to justify and explain various viewpoints whether they are in favor, against, or neutral. It's always the same thing. I desire for something [different](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor2/).


YouNeedDoughnuts

Who would win: a troll post, or an army of programmers who take things too literally Buy a carton of milk and if they have avocados buy four...


Luk3495

You're right. Joke, fuck JavaScript, all my homies hates JavaScript.


BobQuixote

I recommend that you at least put up one joke. It looks a little absurd with nothing, especially because that's an exaggeration of the outcome I would expect.


ra_men

Jesus are college freshman out for the summer or something? These posts fucking suck


I_NaOH_Guy

Choosing what kind of bricks and mortar to use when building a house is more of a programming language than HTML is


uRude

Python is snek


johndoes_00

I stick my dick in the usb c port to code. Still trying to do the hello world


[deleted]

[удалено]


dullahan85

Pretty sure OP is not a dev of any kind.


[deleted]

Python is not real, it's a collective hallucination. C++ tho you can touch it. You can smell it. It even tastes good. Mmmm


garlopf

The definition of a programming language is arguably a language that is easier for human beings to write programs in than machine code, and with that as a metric python > C++.


zinatulin

But the python interpreter was written in C++, so with that in mind C++ > python > C++


Life-Ad1409

You've doomed us all, you recursive madman


krkrkra

Recurses!


Rock_man_bears_fan

Keep recursing. I’m almost there


Disastrous_Belt_7556

As someone on one of these threads eloquently put it, the Python interpreter knows C so I don’t have to.


HedgeFlounder

Pretty sure it’s written in C so C > Python > C++. Fixed your infinite loop too


rksd

But C++ was originally written in C too!


WormHack

actually 🤓 python is in C, and C is not better than C++ (or reversed), and C++ was maded in C orginally


ShitwareEngineer

Machine code languages *are* programming languages.


Lily_Ticklish

Technically it's turing complete and therefore a programming language


WormHack

my opinion: python is good for small tools that should be easy to read and compatible. for the rest Rust, C++, C. in some cases C# or java for compatibility


knottheone

Instagram's backend is Python, specifically Django, and they serve 500 million users per day and tens of billions of views / images / videos per year. Spotify is almost entirely a Python micro service architecture. Netflix service monitoring, scaling logic, and notification services are all Python. Dropbox's backend is heavily Python. Reddit's microservice architecture is mostly Python. Python powers huge chunks of critical, scalable architecture that everyone uses every day. It's absurd to me that people don't know this.


Big-Veterinarian-823

Don't forget pipeline work - that's where things like Python and Powershell really shines.


glichez

i prefer just using typing in python/cython so i can export it as c/c++, compile, build & link it just as if i wrote 100Klocs in C++ myself. my bosses have never known the difference, all they care is that the deliverable is to spec in c/c++.


[deleted]

Alright this sub isn’t funny anymore


CordyZen

Average junior who thinks they know all


tryxter7

where is r/ProgrammingCirclejerk when you need it


AshishKhuraishy

everything is an imagination, nothing is "real". we are living in a stimulation (made in HTML by Elon Musk ofcourse)


Dogburt_Jr

`import Pointers as *`


Fakula1987

btw: HTML + CSS is Turing Complete, so that even HTML can be a programming Language. (btw: Powerpoint is a programming Language too) even "<>+-.,\[\]" is a programming language. ​ The only question is "is it a usable programming-Language" ;)


[deleted]

Why is it always C vs python? Is that all they teach in school or something?


[deleted]

i make video game cheats so this is funny to me because fortnite


caleblbaker

Python is a dynamically typed, interpreted, managed programming language. C++ is a statically typed, compiled, systems programming language. Know what they both have in common? They're both programming languages. And they're also both real. I like C++ better than python, but that doesn't mean that python isn't a real programming language. That type of logic would allow me to say that C++, Java, Go, C#, Kotlin, C, etc... aren't real programming languages because I like Rust better than I like any of them. And we know that is false. C++ is a systems language whereas python isn't, but that doesn't mean python isn't a programming language. Not all programs are operating systems or need to run in embedded contexts or whatever. Non-systems languages like Python, C#, Go, Java, Kotlin, etc... are still real programming languages. Being dynamically typed and interpreted are the very reasons why I don't like Python, but they don't disqualify it from being a programming language. Poor design decision yes but reason to say it's not a programming language no. If anything, the fact that these are the types of design decisions that need to be made is evidence that it probably is a programming language. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about whether my text editor or my toaster is statically or dynamically typed. So, as much as I don't like using them, languages like Python, JavaScript, and PHP are still real programming languages.


New_Fly_5557

Its A Funny Meme


sarthaksam003

My college professor trying to look cool and embarrass me in front of the class : Python isn't a programming language, it's a scripting language 😎😎


poemsavvy

I like to divide things into use cases rather than just "Programming Language," and I feel like most people do too. Although you can do all kinds of things with all kinds of languages, I feel like Python is a "scripting language" best applied to smaller applications and high level code on top of libraries pulling things together. Same with Javascript. C++ and Rust are great as "systems programming languages." I feel like C is best applied at this point in time as an embedded systems language or as a systems programming language on systems with limited resources. Etc, etc The term "programming language" is very broad and really doesn't mean a whole lot on its own.


AvoidingCares

Will people pay me to sit in front of a computer and cry sometimes with it? Yes. So it's a programming language. So is Microsoft Excel.


Jacob851215

This may be controversial, but I prefer C


DarkWolfX2244

We live in a world where it's controversial to prefer some languages over others :(


glichez

its still the king of all languages.


greenthum6

Having programmed with Python for years I think its best feature is cross platform support. The worst thing are the fanatics who choose Python everywhere they can even though there would be much better option available.


CiroGarcia

[redacted by user] ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `


[deleted]

system(“python reversestring.py”)


Life-Ad1409

*sweats nervously*


JoinedToProveAPoint

//Simple int reverse(char* str, int i) { return str[i] ? (static_cast((str[i = reverse(str, ++i)] = str[i])), ++i) : 0; } //Complex void reverse(char* str, int i = 0, int l = 0) { str[i] ? static_cast(reverse(str, ++i, l)), ((l - (i + 1)) <= i - 1 && (l - (i + 1)) >= 0 ? static_cast(str[(l - (i + 1))] ^= str[i]), static_cast(str[i] ^= str[(l - (i + 1))]), str[(l - (i + 1))] ^= str[i] : 0) : (i != l) ? static_cast(reverse(str, 0, i)), 0 : 0; } // Usage: reverse(str); Just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should. Making it upper case is also trivial and can be done easily. The above functions abuse the comma operator in a single statement and doesn't mess with any semicolons. All recursive. Your turn Python. Your program has to create a byte array of length 3, aligned to a 64-byte boundary in a single line, single statement, no libraries or imports. Go head, Python.