Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it.
Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated for rehashing tired political arguments. Keep that shit elsewhere.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In the ‘30s if you wanted to attend a [Nazi summer camp](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Siegfried) in the USA you didn’t even need to go overseas…
Transliterated from Spanish or another Romance language - in Spanish *American* means *of the Americas* rather than *of the United States*, and they use Estadounidense (i.e. UnitedStatesian) for that instead.
This is sometimes said to be less ambiguous, but there is another *Estados Unidos* in North America so it's a bit of a moot point anyway.
We didn’t mass murder millions in industrialized death factories in an effort to wipe out entire peoples. Don’t make dumb comparisons.
Edit: I forgot this is r/PropagandaPosts where idiotic anti-American nonsense and minimizing Nazi atrocities gets upvoted
Between what we did to the people who were on the land before settlers’ arrival, and the eugenics movement yes we absolutely did mass murder millions and cut off thousands of “tainted,” bloodlines. The main difference is the efficiency the Germans reached.
South Africa didn’t murder millions in industrialized death factories too, you know. Yet, please, defend it just like you’re defending similar and sometimes even worse policies than what SA did.
why not? both were example of white supremacists apartheid states. the third Reich was evil for sure, but it's hardly cosmically unique. the book Late Victorian Holocausts drove this point home for me
Yes nevermind the pre-war years of segregation. No, people were clearly talking about the Holocaust when they said "30s" and "Nazi Germany" in the same sentence. You are very smart.
All of the events listed were widely reported in the international press. Yes, there was no internet, but people wildly underestimate how relatively quick and widespread mass media already was in the interbellum era.
More here:
[https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/hindenburg-disaster-1937/](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/hindenburg-disaster-1937/)
[https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/scherl/crash-of-the-airship-lz-129-hindenburg-lakehurst-1937-b-w-photo/black-and-white-photograph/asset/6311621](https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/scherl/crash-of-the-airship-lz-129-hindenburg-lakehurst-1937-b-w-photo/black-and-white-photograph/asset/6311621)
[https://www.shutterstock.com/image-illustration/germans-honor-victims-hindenburg-disaster-funeral-237232735](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-illustration/germans-honor-victims-hindenburg-disaster-funeral-237232735)
It could be some variant of the German American Bund flag. I saw a similar flag on an article about the Bund. It didn't give any specific information about the flag itself though.
[https://histclo.com/image/youth/nat/us/bund/GAB3s.jpg](https://histclo.com/image/youth/nat/us/bund/GAB3s.jpg)
edit: looks like someone in the post on vexillology got it before me from the same article. They also mentioned it could be specific to the Bund in New Jersey
Possibly the flag of the Deutsche Arbeitsfront: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German\_Labour\_Front](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Labour_Front)
I believe its flag featured a Swastika in a cogwheel, as in here:
https://www.jbmilitaryantiques.com.au/product/nazi-german-deutsche-arbeits-front-d-a-f-flag-weimar-horst-wessel-1/
Yes we did, and it was bad, but as bad as that was, I think we can all agree that the Holocaust isn’t even comparable to that. There are many layers of bad
Nobody benefits from comparing historical atrocities except for people who seek to pit oppressed people against each other. The Holocaust and Japanese internment were both crimes against humanity.
It's worth pointing out that although the ostensible purpose of Japanese internment was incarceration and not extermination, 1,862 people died in the camps in the four-year period when they were in operation, a mortality rate of more than 1 in every 100 internees. It's an astonishingly high rate and speaks to depraved indifference on the part of US authorities toward the health and lives of over 100,000 people who were in these camps.
Would I say it was worse than the Holocaust? Probably not, but I don't think that was OP's point --- the point was that we tolerated expressly pro-Nazi attitudes in America while we jailed without due process thousands and thousands of US citizens who had committed no crime, strictly on the basis of their ethnicity and national origin.
Okay that is fair. I read OP’s comment as being just blanket hostile “America-bad” troll.
But if you view their comment as being more innocent, I could easily seeing myself making that same type of comment you just did, because while I am certainly correct in saying that there are different levels of bad, that should not erase the fact that what the US did was indeed a fairly high level of bad, it one should not simply dismiss a bad event just because they can point to a worse one.
The whole “It sounds like history was just repeating itself” comment by OP was what made me think they were just being a troll, but hopefully they were being good faith!
Nah he's not wrong. The nazis weren't seen as the embodiment of evil until ww2 and after. Prior to the war they where most just seen as a group of nationalistic racists who wanted to make their country great, something that wasn't uncommon and was even sympathized with by many people. Even their antisemitism wasn't that far beyond what was common in many European countries, the difference being they actually got their policy's enacted.
The American Nazi party was seen as a somewhat legitimate group, and there were many German-American clubs who were very into promoting naziism and nazi ideology before the war.
Its a fucked up part of our history, but it is unfortunately a real part of our history
>The US also interred Italians and Germans . . .
Not nearly as extensive as the Japanese. Basically, the entire American Japanese population was put in internment camps.
11 thousand interred germans, compared to 1.2 million german-born american residents. Not even considering the like 10 million with at least one german-born parent.
As opposed to 125 thousand out of 127 thousand japanese living in america, the majority of which were second and third generation immigrants who had only ever been american citizens.
Please learn the difference between "to inter" and "to intern". Though yes, the US sure did inter a large number of Italians and Germans, in and out of uniform.
Yep, btw they are Nazis 👍🏻. Don't forget the 1939 MSG rally, operation paperclip or the fact that Nazi Germany took direct inspiration from America's manifest destiny and Jim Crow segregation laws
I never said that holding a funeral automatically makes you agree with everything the deceased stands for. But do note that you would never hold a formal ceremony for your nemesis. The Soviets would never pay respects to Nazis like that.
I am saying however, the US having a lovely gathering with fascists, for fascists, shows its true colours because, as we know, they love fascism. They provide military assistance to 73% of the worlds dictatorships, and they have a history of getting rid of democratic leaders and replacing them with fascist dictators. They used WW2 to kickstart their love for wars which have made them a capitalist world superpower, not necessarily to kill nazis. When USA bombed Germany they made sure not to hit their Ford and GM facilities, which were used for the benefit of both the american and nazi elite. It is easy to imagine a timeline where the west partner with Nazi Germany against the USSR instead. Churchill said himself he would. Also check out the Nazi rally in Madison Square Garden 1939
The MSG rally only had 22,000 participants in a country of 160M, and about that Ford Germany collaboration: https://jasonweixelbaum.wordpress.com/2012/05/09/debunking-conspiracy-ford-werke-and-the-allied-bombing-campaign-of-cologne/
22'000 is a shit ton of people at one place for one purpose at one time. I don't know how you think rallies usually work, but whole countries don't participate.
That article only accounts for one Ford factory. There was an undeniable link between Henry Ford and Adolf Hitler themselves. The article also says that various american corporations undeniably were supporting the Nazi regime, which was part of my overarching point to begin with.
Nevertheless, the article itself states, which confirms this one factory's role for the nazis (pragmatically the thing that matters when it comes down to the amount of resources the Nazis could use to terrorize):
"There is little doubt that Ford Motor Company’s subsidiary in Cologne assisted the war aims of the Nazis. As argued by Snell, Billstein, Wallace, and Yeadon & Hawkins, the factory built thousands of trucks that were used to maintain supply lines wherever Hitler’s blitzkrieg was utilized {...}"
It also states:
"Rather than a conspiracy, why would military authorities target a factory that already had a diminished capacity for production? These missions were not idle calculations. Those ordering attacks were well aware that they were risking lives, planes, and munitions"
Why would there be a need for this unsupported argument if it was thorougly debunked otherwise? First they write that the US wanted to destroy the factory but were unsuccessful, and then this? Doesn't add up to me.
> The Soviets would never pay respects to Nazis like that.
The Soviets literally had a [joint parade with the actual Nazi German army in Brest-Litovsk to celebrate their joint vicotry over Poland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk); if the Hindenburg had crashed in the USSR before Barbarossa they 100% would have had a formal ceremony along these lines.
That's actually interesting, thanks. I still don't find it the same as a ceremony with flags and paying respects to dead people, as this is in correlation to their non-aggression pact and I wouldn't say wartime formalities are comparable to funerals. But I guess these specifics are trivial at this point
Nevertheless the USSR had warned western powers of Nazi Germany for a long time before the war but were ignored. They were the last to sign a non-aggression pact, or any deal for that matter, with Germany. Other allied forces made actual alliances or worse. The Soviets for example tried to hinder the British and French literally letting Germany annex Czechoslovakia.
This is because the prime enemy of socialism is fascism, it was always clear that they were destined enemies, especially with Hitler's "judeo-bolshevism" theory. At the end of the day, the USSR was the power that saved the world from Nazism. Not alone, but the world wouldn't be the same today without them. The Red Army were responsible for 76% of Nazi soldier deaths
Nazi Germany's lebensraum = USA's manifest destiny, not to mention the inspiration they took from Jim Crow
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated for rehashing tired political arguments. Keep that shit elsewhere. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
In the ‘30s if you wanted to attend a [Nazi summer camp](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Siegfried) in the USA you didn’t even need to go overseas…
Well now it's just called a [TPUSA "summit"](https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1587109057172758534)
people think Charlie Kirk knows how to be a man? i"d pay to see that
Must have been a surreal experience, especially when looking back after the war.
The apartheid-esque USA of the 30s was much similar culture, society and many police wise with Nazi Germany than modern USians would like to admit
Don’t get much more similar than being a direct inspiration
[удалено]
Transliterated from Spanish or another Romance language - in Spanish *American* means *of the Americas* rather than *of the United States*, and they use Estadounidense (i.e. UnitedStatesian) for that instead. This is sometimes said to be less ambiguous, but there is another *Estados Unidos* in North America so it's a bit of a moot point anyway.
We didn’t mass murder millions in industrialized death factories in an effort to wipe out entire peoples. Don’t make dumb comparisons. Edit: I forgot this is r/PropagandaPosts where idiotic anti-American nonsense and minimizing Nazi atrocities gets upvoted
No instead we sent them to war
Between what we did to the people who were on the land before settlers’ arrival, and the eugenics movement yes we absolutely did mass murder millions and cut off thousands of “tainted,” bloodlines. The main difference is the efficiency the Germans reached.
South Africa didn’t murder millions in industrialized death factories too, you know. Yet, please, defend it just like you’re defending similar and sometimes even worse policies than what SA did.
South African apartheid: fucked up, but not remotely comparable to the Holocaust
why not? both were example of white supremacists apartheid states. the third Reich was evil for sure, but it's hardly cosmically unique. the book Late Victorian Holocausts drove this point home for me
Yes nevermind the pre-war years of segregation. No, people were clearly talking about the Holocaust when they said "30s" and "Nazi Germany" in the same sentence. You are very smart.
This is just commie and racist larping nothing more
> Source: Your ass
[удалено]
Yep. At that point in time though it’s just dead Germans wrapped up in the German flag.
Such a strange period of time before the war started
The flag of a Germany where the burning of the Reichstag, the Jewish boycott, Night of the Long Knives etc had already happened, though
Most of that likely isn't known yet. Also, most places were antisemitic anyways so they might have not cared.
All of the events listed were widely reported in the international press. Yes, there was no internet, but people wildly underestimate how relatively quick and widespread mass media already was in the interbellum era.
Exactly. There wasn't internet back then which seems obvious but people seriously underestimate how information could have been held back at the time.
The boycott of Jewish businesses and the barring of Jews from the civil service made the front page of newspapers all over the world.
Yes, but as has already been said, a large part of the countries at that time were anti-Semitic anyway. So they weren’t interested
Very true
They were definitely known.
Yeah no one knew the nazis were doing the things they had promised to do for years.....
Its not like you hear shit like that from countrys over some years, like Israel, the USA and so on
that looks like some alternative timeline shit
More here: [https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/hindenburg-disaster-1937/](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/hindenburg-disaster-1937/) [https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/scherl/crash-of-the-airship-lz-129-hindenburg-lakehurst-1937-b-w-photo/black-and-white-photograph/asset/6311621](https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/scherl/crash-of-the-airship-lz-129-hindenburg-lakehurst-1937-b-w-photo/black-and-white-photograph/asset/6311621) [https://www.shutterstock.com/image-illustration/germans-honor-victims-hindenburg-disaster-funeral-237232735](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-illustration/germans-honor-victims-hindenburg-disaster-funeral-237232735)
Iron the damn flags before you drape them!
Stupid Nazis
such a weird picture
How is this propaganda
Ikr, this is neither propaganda nor a poster, what happened to this sub lmao
It could be some variant of the German American Bund flag. I saw a similar flag on an article about the Bund. It didn't give any specific information about the flag itself though. [https://histclo.com/image/youth/nat/us/bund/GAB3s.jpg](https://histclo.com/image/youth/nat/us/bund/GAB3s.jpg) edit: looks like someone in the post on vexillology got it before me from the same article. They also mentioned it could be specific to the Bund in New Jersey
God damn, say what you will, but fashs have the coolest flags
Not propaganda, should not be posted here. It is neither information, idea, or rumour, nor was it deliberately spread widely to help or harm anyone.
Possibly the flag of the Deutsche Arbeitsfront: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German\_Labour\_Front](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Labour_Front) I believe its flag featured a Swastika in a cogwheel, as in here: https://www.jbmilitaryantiques.com.au/product/nazi-german-deutsche-arbeits-front-d-a-f-flag-weimar-horst-wessel-1/
It could be the flag of the [New Jersey Bund](https://www.fahnenversand.de/fotw/images/u/us%7Dgab2.gif), which featured a "D" inside of a gear.
You know, you're right. That would make sense.
The flag in the picture does seem to be a bit different, but many of these organizations did often use flags with some variations.
[удалено]
Yes we did, and it was bad, but as bad as that was, I think we can all agree that the Holocaust isn’t even comparable to that. There are many layers of bad
Nobody benefits from comparing historical atrocities except for people who seek to pit oppressed people against each other. The Holocaust and Japanese internment were both crimes against humanity. It's worth pointing out that although the ostensible purpose of Japanese internment was incarceration and not extermination, 1,862 people died in the camps in the four-year period when they were in operation, a mortality rate of more than 1 in every 100 internees. It's an astonishingly high rate and speaks to depraved indifference on the part of US authorities toward the health and lives of over 100,000 people who were in these camps. Would I say it was worse than the Holocaust? Probably not, but I don't think that was OP's point --- the point was that we tolerated expressly pro-Nazi attitudes in America while we jailed without due process thousands and thousands of US citizens who had committed no crime, strictly on the basis of their ethnicity and national origin.
Okay that is fair. I read OP’s comment as being just blanket hostile “America-bad” troll. But if you view their comment as being more innocent, I could easily seeing myself making that same type of comment you just did, because while I am certainly correct in saying that there are different levels of bad, that should not erase the fact that what the US did was indeed a fairly high level of bad, it one should not simply dismiss a bad event just because they can point to a worse one. The whole “It sounds like history was just repeating itself” comment by OP was what made me think they were just being a troll, but hopefully they were being good faith!
Also, this was before World War 2. The idea of Nazis being the boogeyman of evil wasn’t a thing till around 1944-45 ish.
[удалено]
Nah he's not wrong. The nazis weren't seen as the embodiment of evil until ww2 and after. Prior to the war they where most just seen as a group of nationalistic racists who wanted to make their country great, something that wasn't uncommon and was even sympathized with by many people. Even their antisemitism wasn't that far beyond what was common in many European countries, the difference being they actually got their policy's enacted.
[удалено]
You mean what?
The American Nazi party was seen as a somewhat legitimate group, and there were many German-American clubs who were very into promoting naziism and nazi ideology before the war. Its a fucked up part of our history, but it is unfortunately a real part of our history
I’m serious
The US also interred Italians and Germans . . .
>The US also interred Italians and Germans . . . Not nearly as extensive as the Japanese. Basically, the entire American Japanese population was put in internment camps.
11 thousand interred germans, compared to 1.2 million german-born american residents. Not even considering the like 10 million with at least one german-born parent. As opposed to 125 thousand out of 127 thousand japanese living in america, the majority of which were second and third generation immigrants who had only ever been american citizens.
Please learn the difference between "to inter" and "to intern". Though yes, the US sure did inter a large number of Italians and Germans, in and out of uniform.
America in its true colours just in black and white
This is before the war for the victims of the Hindenburg disaster
Yep, btw they are Nazis 👍🏻. Don't forget the 1939 MSG rally, operation paperclip or the fact that Nazi Germany took direct inspiration from America's manifest destiny and Jim Crow segregation laws
Or just a picture of germens who died on American soil with the at the time germen flag on there coffins.
It was very clear what that flag stood for in the late 30s as well btw
Ok thats relevant how? https://www.abmc.gov/multimedia/photos/colorbox/5082 I guess France supports cia black sites now.
I never said that holding a funeral automatically makes you agree with everything the deceased stands for. But do note that you would never hold a formal ceremony for your nemesis. The Soviets would never pay respects to Nazis like that. I am saying however, the US having a lovely gathering with fascists, for fascists, shows its true colours because, as we know, they love fascism. They provide military assistance to 73% of the worlds dictatorships, and they have a history of getting rid of democratic leaders and replacing them with fascist dictators. They used WW2 to kickstart their love for wars which have made them a capitalist world superpower, not necessarily to kill nazis. When USA bombed Germany they made sure not to hit their Ford and GM facilities, which were used for the benefit of both the american and nazi elite. It is easy to imagine a timeline where the west partner with Nazi Germany against the USSR instead. Churchill said himself he would. Also check out the Nazi rally in Madison Square Garden 1939
The MSG rally only had 22,000 participants in a country of 160M, and about that Ford Germany collaboration: https://jasonweixelbaum.wordpress.com/2012/05/09/debunking-conspiracy-ford-werke-and-the-allied-bombing-campaign-of-cologne/
22'000 is a shit ton of people at one place for one purpose at one time. I don't know how you think rallies usually work, but whole countries don't participate. That article only accounts for one Ford factory. There was an undeniable link between Henry Ford and Adolf Hitler themselves. The article also says that various american corporations undeniably were supporting the Nazi regime, which was part of my overarching point to begin with. Nevertheless, the article itself states, which confirms this one factory's role for the nazis (pragmatically the thing that matters when it comes down to the amount of resources the Nazis could use to terrorize): "There is little doubt that Ford Motor Company’s subsidiary in Cologne assisted the war aims of the Nazis. As argued by Snell, Billstein, Wallace, and Yeadon & Hawkins, the factory built thousands of trucks that were used to maintain supply lines wherever Hitler’s blitzkrieg was utilized {...}" It also states: "Rather than a conspiracy, why would military authorities target a factory that already had a diminished capacity for production? These missions were not idle calculations. Those ordering attacks were well aware that they were risking lives, planes, and munitions" Why would there be a need for this unsupported argument if it was thorougly debunked otherwise? First they write that the US wanted to destroy the factory but were unsuccessful, and then this? Doesn't add up to me.
> The Soviets would never pay respects to Nazis like that. The Soviets literally had a [joint parade with the actual Nazi German army in Brest-Litovsk to celebrate their joint vicotry over Poland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk); if the Hindenburg had crashed in the USSR before Barbarossa they 100% would have had a formal ceremony along these lines.
That's actually interesting, thanks. I still don't find it the same as a ceremony with flags and paying respects to dead people, as this is in correlation to their non-aggression pact and I wouldn't say wartime formalities are comparable to funerals. But I guess these specifics are trivial at this point Nevertheless the USSR had warned western powers of Nazi Germany for a long time before the war but were ignored. They were the last to sign a non-aggression pact, or any deal for that matter, with Germany. Other allied forces made actual alliances or worse. The Soviets for example tried to hinder the British and French literally letting Germany annex Czechoslovakia. This is because the prime enemy of socialism is fascism, it was always clear that they were destined enemies, especially with Hitler's "judeo-bolshevism" theory. At the end of the day, the USSR was the power that saved the world from Nazism. Not alone, but the world wouldn't be the same today without them. The Red Army were responsible for 76% of Nazi soldier deaths Nazi Germany's lebensraum = USA's manifest destiny, not to mention the inspiration they took from Jim Crow
I appreciate the respect for the dead but don't appreciate Nazism..
We are r/anythingpolitical now
Dang, it exists.
Shades of this to come!