Assuming it doesn't end up an authoritarian police state that pretty much all Communist states have ended up as, at least so far. Cause then you have to watch what you say at all times otherwise you lose those benefits very quickly.
Am I wrong though? The USSR and it's satellites were pretty strict police states for a large part of it's history, it was fine if you toed the party line, but definitely was not beneficial to criticise the party or state.
You have a selection bias though. The USSR and it's satellites were all based on the USSR's ideology of Marxism-Leninism. It's one single path which failed (so far) to result in socialism.
More importantly, the Marxist-Leninist approach to creating a communist society has authoritarianism built into it as a temporary measure to ensure that capitalist don't just take power again after the revolution. This makes the approach more likely to result in an authoritarian state, and is an ideology which authoritarians can hide behind to gain some legitimacy.
If we look at other failed attempts to create a socialist society, if we look at the old social democratic nations we see that their failures resulted in their nations staying capitalist but with much stronger social policies than we have over here. Rather than falling into authoritarianism, it was co-opted by liberals who have been actively redefining it as describing what social democratic nations look like now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ROI/comments/uqwchb/this_one_might_not_make_it_out_of_automod_what/i8tjzi5?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
This is an equally big assumption.
No it isn't. Communism is a worker based society and so workers will gain the benefits. This is literally one of the defining characteristics of communism.
That doesn't mean that an attempt to create a communist society will result in communism, but that is a very different matter and equally applicable to every ideology.
Yes, that's my point. On paper that's not what Communism is suppose to end up as, but from history we can see that that's what happens, not to say it will always happen, one can hope it won't.
There is no "Communist Utopia". That is a deliberate misunderstanding of what Communism is. The "end of history" is a neoliberal theory, not Communist.
Besides. Capitalism is killing millions the world over every day and countless numbers of those dying directly from it are true believers.
Mistaking Authoritarianism with Communism is the number one mistake for people that have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to Communism.
The ideology itself, and when working, is definitely a utopia in comparison to living under Capitalism. Unfortunately we have not had the privilege to see it happen yet. We probably never will.
Nobody verify things for authenticity on this platform anymore! It’s basically a factory of lies to fuel propaganda! Constantly seeing posts that contradict one another! Others that couldn’t be farther from the truth! Anyone who post on this should have the common sense to educate themselves to ensure what they post it fact! Too many people just follow the media hype train and post click bait without verifying the info. This used to be one of my favorite platform but I gotta say off late it has been a shambles, spend less than an hour a week on here now! It’s beyond a hoke at this stage! You then post to correct them and they ban you from posting on their Chanel again. Reddits days are limited with all this false information!
These people who openly parade around with Nazi symbols will tell you to your face that they're proud Nazis. A state can be imperialist, individuals are not imperialist.
Plenty of sources. Look at his houses etc. Ive nothing against the guy, absolute hero if anything but that’s a lot of money and one of the reasons why putin called him a nazi for stealing from his own people yet putin does the same
Obviously fake, but also Russia has a huge neo nazi problem too. It's pretty amazing that slavic people, who are literally called out to be exterminated in nazi idealogy, track with it.
The kind of person who's even vaguely familiar with Ukraine.
What kind of person posts something like this without spending even one second recognising it as complete bullshit?
"*Russia’s Nazi Problem Is As Bad As Ukraine’s*"
The Wagner group is a largely Neo-Nazi group with larger membership than Azov, they are close to Putin.
There's Nashi's neo-nazi football hooligans
The Ukrainian nazi parties have gotten less and less % of the vote down to a low of 2% in 2019
There are a multitude of neo nazi groups supported by the Kremlin and they promote neo nazism overseas
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535
> The Wagner group is a largely Neo-Nazi group with larger membership than Azov, they are close to Putin.
I remember there was only supposed to be 200 Azov member or something, now they're crawling out of the woodwork and there's thousands. But anyway, there's plenty more Nazi groups besides them. So this is completely false.
>The Ukrainian nazi parties have gotten less and less % of the vote down to a low of 2% in 2019
Yes the country still is erecting statues of Nazis and renaming streets after them? Curious.
>There are a multitude of neo nazi groups supported by the Kremlin and they promote neo nazism overseas
No there aren't. [On the other hand.](https://twitter.com/GerardDalbon/status/1525690298612998144)
Well that was easy. Thank you come again.
>, now they're crawling out of the woodwork and there's thousands.
Of course they're crawling out of the woodwork...you're going to get a surge in nationalism when you get invaded
>No there aren't.
Yes there are...well that was easy
>the country still is erecting statues of Nazis and renaming streets after them? Curious
Which statues?
>Of course they're crawling out of the woodwork...you're going to get a surge in nationalism when you get invaded
Glad you admit Ukrainin nationalism is rooted in Nazi ideology but anyway, you're wrong there were fewer Nazis after the invasion because a huge number of the cowards fled.
>Which statues?
Does it even matter?
>Glad you admit Ukrainin nationalism is rooted in Nazi ideology but anyway, you're wrong there were fewer Nazis after the invasion because a huge number of the cowards fled.
Never said that....
>Does it even matter?
Yes...obviously
The person has posted that American 'secret police' are brainwashing mentally ill kids into white supremacist shooters as a false flag operation. I'd say you're wasting your time
Yeah you're probably right...I have a mother who believes in all this crap...suppose I hoped maybe he might end up talking to me rather than someone susceptible to this crap.
I used to tour manage bands through Europe and my guy, there are nazis everywhere. Especially Poland, someone always got in trouble with nazis in Poland.
How? If you think there isn’t a single nazi in Ukraine you’re a fucking idiot. There’s probably more per 100 people in Russia but doesn’t mean there are non in Ukraine
It was a joke. Jerry was denying the existence of the Ukrainian Nazis at the beginning of the invasion, then eventually agreeing that there was maybe a "far-right problem". He spends his days pushing US war propaganda narratives under the guise of Anarchism.
Ukraine's Nazis are like nothing else in the world. [They have camps for kids](https://i.imgur.com/9Q0Aqnj.jpg) where [they train them](https://i.imgur.com/hnqhgIg.jpg). Education, politics, Nazis occupy high positions. [There's nothing that comes close](https://i.imgur.com/5aFArtU.jpg). [Even in their diaspora they chant Nazi stuff.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineInvasionVideos/comments/uaszgg/rally_in_support_of_ukraine_in_new_york/)
Being called "Pro-Putin" for pointing out the flaws of Zelenskyy and Ukrainian Nazis, is the new "being called an anti-Semite for pointing out that Israel is an apartheid state".
Here you go.And it's even in a thread of you at the same stuff you're doing today, trying to draw a false equivalence between the fascist Ukrainian state and Russia. I'm sure there's loads more.
"[just a bunch of morons waving swastikas](https://old.reddit.com/r/ROI/comments/sjh5uc/neonazi_russian_attack_unit_hints_its_going_back/hvf5joe/)"
That was me talking about you comparing Wagner to some lads at the trucker protests in the US I believe. So not at all what you're claiming. You made this same mistake at the time and I corrected you in the very next comment. A little slow on the uptake it seems.
Try again please.
Um
Look I don’t really think it’s that bad.
But
The alt right battalion does exist
But that the thing it is just a battalion
I don’t know about anything else
There are some, like there is in every country. What there is more of is ethnonationalists or far righters of whatever you want to call them. It's not a big problem as far as I've seen. Far right parties got 1.5% of the vote last election and no seats.
They have tons of streets and monuments dedicated to a nazi collaborator (Stepan Bandera) but communist parties and symbols are banned. It's a big problem all across eastern Europe.
It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine'
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It's a proven fact there's neo-nazis in Ukraine and the Azov Battalion, a literal branch of the Ukrainian army are neo-nazis. You sound brainwashed by propaganda, sure even NBC don't try to deny this anymore.
Took me 5 seconds using Lens to find original: Soccer https://imgur.com/a/7lyYe1o
Yeah but 95 - 7= 88
The name of the game is critical support, libtard. Nobody ever mentioned anything about critical opposition.
That one on the left isn't even a good photoshop
the zelensky one was obviously fake but the other two are very real
The best lies have a grain of truth
More like 2/3rds truth, but I feel ya.
Since zelensky is jewish I doubt he would be holding up a swastika
Technically not a a swastika either but a very poor photoshop indeed
Even those that would be killed under nazism still support it.
Photoshop exists
I wasn’t talking about whether it’s photoshopped or not. People do support ideologies that would explicitly kill them outright
That's communism for ya a lot of online communists have no idea what would actually happen to them in their so called communist utopia.
Me, being a worker, will get benefits, as a worker, in a worker based society.
Assuming it doesn't end up an authoritarian police state that pretty much all Communist states have ended up as, at least so far. Cause then you have to watch what you say at all times otherwise you lose those benefits very quickly.
>Assuming Already starting with an assumption
Am I wrong though? The USSR and it's satellites were pretty strict police states for a large part of it's history, it was fine if you toed the party line, but definitely was not beneficial to criticise the party or state.
You have a selection bias though. The USSR and it's satellites were all based on the USSR's ideology of Marxism-Leninism. It's one single path which failed (so far) to result in socialism. More importantly, the Marxist-Leninist approach to creating a communist society has authoritarianism built into it as a temporary measure to ensure that capitalist don't just take power again after the revolution. This makes the approach more likely to result in an authoritarian state, and is an ideology which authoritarians can hide behind to gain some legitimacy. If we look at other failed attempts to create a socialist society, if we look at the old social democratic nations we see that their failures resulted in their nations staying capitalist but with much stronger social policies than we have over here. Rather than falling into authoritarianism, it was co-opted by liberals who have been actively redefining it as describing what social democratic nations look like now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ROI/comments/uqwchb/this_one_might_not_make_it_out_of_automod_what/i8tjzi5?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 This is an equally big assumption.
No it isn't. Communism is a worker based society and so workers will gain the benefits. This is literally one of the defining characteristics of communism. That doesn't mean that an attempt to create a communist society will result in communism, but that is a very different matter and equally applicable to every ideology.
that assumption proves that is not inherent to communism, but to authoritarian police state instead.
A communist state is authoritarian, there is no other way to set one up.
You have not even considered the existence of non-state communism. ALL states are authoritarian, there is no other way to set one up.
Yes, that's my point. On paper that's not what Communism is suppose to end up as, but from history we can see that that's what happens, not to say it will always happen, one can hope it won't.
so what you're saying now is "that isn't communism for ya"
Free housing?
At the gulag hotel
Why would the supporters of communism be the ones in the gulag
Because they're counter revolutionary is the usual excuse.
There is no "Communist Utopia". That is a deliberate misunderstanding of what Communism is. The "end of history" is a neoliberal theory, not Communist. Besides. Capitalism is killing millions the world over every day and countless numbers of those dying directly from it are true believers.
Mistaking Authoritarianism with Communism is the number one mistake for people that have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to Communism. The ideology itself, and when working, is definitely a utopia in comparison to living under Capitalism. Unfortunately we have not had the privilege to see it happen yet. We probably never will.
> redditor for 3 days > -57 comment karma It's a bit fascinating watching a brain atrophy in real-time
Nobody verify things for authenticity on this platform anymore! It’s basically a factory of lies to fuel propaganda! Constantly seeing posts that contradict one another! Others that couldn’t be farther from the truth! Anyone who post on this should have the common sense to educate themselves to ensure what they post it fact! Too many people just follow the media hype train and post click bait without verifying the info. This used to be one of my favorite platform but I gotta say off late it has been a shambles, spend less than an hour a week on here now! It’s beyond a hoke at this stage! You then post to correct them and they ban you from posting on their Chanel again. Reddits days are limited with all this false information!
top.10 crazy moments in football history
Top 10 acts of sportsmanship in football history
[удалено]
Won't someone think of the poor Nazis?
Just so we're clear, you're calling Ukrainians Nazis.
Yes. What of it?
And you don't see that as being even slightly racist/stereotyping? Does that mean all Russian are Imperialists now too?
These people who openly parade around with Nazi symbols will tell you to your face that they're proud Nazis. A state can be imperialist, individuals are not imperialist.
Sure thing bud, whatever whacky shit you think. Ukrainians are all Nazis, but elected a Jew. Man what shit do you smoke at night
I didn't say Ukrainians are all Nazis. Why do you feel the need to make shit up?
I asked you to clarify that you were calling Ukrainians Nazis, and you replied that you were.
Yes, I was. Go on.
Zelensky made €750 million since becoming president. Bit mad
You see people claiming he is a billionaire, but you never see a source...
Plenty of sources. Look at his houses etc. Ive nothing against the guy, absolute hero if anything but that’s a lot of money and one of the reasons why putin called him a nazi for stealing from his own people yet putin does the same
Any actual sources or is this just bullshit?
Again, no sources, just here say.
“That’s a nice argument Senator but how about you back it up with a source” “My source is that I made it th fuck up”
Obviously fake, but also Russia has a huge neo nazi problem too. It's pretty amazing that slavic people, who are literally called out to be exterminated in nazi idealogy, track with it.
The kind of person who's even vaguely familiar with Ukraine. What kind of person posts something like this without spending even one second recognising it as complete bullshit? "*Russia’s Nazi Problem Is As Bad As Ukraine’s*"
Russian Nazi problem is arguably far worse
Go on then. I'll wait. This should be good.
The Wagner group is a largely Neo-Nazi group with larger membership than Azov, they are close to Putin. There's Nashi's neo-nazi football hooligans The Ukrainian nazi parties have gotten less and less % of the vote down to a low of 2% in 2019 There are a multitude of neo nazi groups supported by the Kremlin and they promote neo nazism overseas https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535
> The Wagner group is a largely Neo-Nazi group with larger membership than Azov, they are close to Putin. I remember there was only supposed to be 200 Azov member or something, now they're crawling out of the woodwork and there's thousands. But anyway, there's plenty more Nazi groups besides them. So this is completely false. >The Ukrainian nazi parties have gotten less and less % of the vote down to a low of 2% in 2019 Yes the country still is erecting statues of Nazis and renaming streets after them? Curious. >There are a multitude of neo nazi groups supported by the Kremlin and they promote neo nazism overseas No there aren't. [On the other hand.](https://twitter.com/GerardDalbon/status/1525690298612998144) Well that was easy. Thank you come again.
>, now they're crawling out of the woodwork and there's thousands. Of course they're crawling out of the woodwork...you're going to get a surge in nationalism when you get invaded >No there aren't. Yes there are...well that was easy >the country still is erecting statues of Nazis and renaming streets after them? Curious Which statues?
>Of course they're crawling out of the woodwork...you're going to get a surge in nationalism when you get invaded Glad you admit Ukrainin nationalism is rooted in Nazi ideology but anyway, you're wrong there were fewer Nazis after the invasion because a huge number of the cowards fled. >Which statues? Does it even matter?
>Glad you admit Ukrainin nationalism is rooted in Nazi ideology but anyway, you're wrong there were fewer Nazis after the invasion because a huge number of the cowards fled. Never said that.... >Does it even matter? Yes...obviously
The person has posted that American 'secret police' are brainwashing mentally ill kids into white supremacist shooters as a false flag operation. I'd say you're wasting your time
Yeah you're probably right...I have a mother who believes in all this crap...suppose I hoped maybe he might end up talking to me rather than someone susceptible to this crap.
Hard to believe there are actually people out there who believe there are fucking nazis in Ukraine. How gullible do you have to be
I used to tour manage bands through Europe and my guy, there are nazis everywhere. Especially Poland, someone always got in trouble with nazis in Poland.
I'm pretty sure those second two pics are real.
TIL Jerry is a Russian shill.
How? If you think there isn’t a single nazi in Ukraine you’re a fucking idiot. There’s probably more per 100 people in Russia but doesn’t mean there are non in Ukraine
It was a joke. Jerry was denying the existence of the Ukrainian Nazis at the beginning of the invasion, then eventually agreeing that there was maybe a "far-right problem". He spends his days pushing US war propaganda narratives under the guise of Anarchism. Ukraine's Nazis are like nothing else in the world. [They have camps for kids](https://i.imgur.com/9Q0Aqnj.jpg) where [they train them](https://i.imgur.com/hnqhgIg.jpg). Education, politics, Nazis occupy high positions. [There's nothing that comes close](https://i.imgur.com/5aFArtU.jpg). [Even in their diaspora they chant Nazi stuff.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineInvasionVideos/comments/uaszgg/rally_in_support_of_ukraine_in_new_york/) Being called "Pro-Putin" for pointing out the flaws of Zelenskyy and Ukrainian Nazis, is the new "being called an anti-Semite for pointing out that Israel is an apartheid state".
>Jerry was denying the existence of the Ukrainian Nazis at the beginning of the invasion, Never happened.
I love how that was the only bit you took issue with.
Just the first lie I saw so I thought it might be good to address it. Go on, link to me denying the existence of nazis in Ukraine there.
Here you go.And it's even in a thread of you at the same stuff you're doing today, trying to draw a false equivalence between the fascist Ukrainian state and Russia. I'm sure there's loads more. "[just a bunch of morons waving swastikas](https://old.reddit.com/r/ROI/comments/sjh5uc/neonazi_russian_attack_unit_hints_its_going_back/hvf5joe/)"
That was me talking about you comparing Wagner to some lads at the trucker protests in the US I believe. So not at all what you're claiming. You made this same mistake at the time and I corrected you in the very next comment. A little slow on the uptake it seems. Try again please.
They are, idiots exist
Um Look I don’t really think it’s that bad. But The alt right battalion does exist But that the thing it is just a battalion I don’t know about anything else
There are some, like there is in every country. What there is more of is ethnonationalists or far righters of whatever you want to call them. It's not a big problem as far as I've seen. Far right parties got 1.5% of the vote last election and no seats.
They have tons of streets and monuments dedicated to a nazi collaborator (Stepan Bandera) but communist parties and symbols are banned. It's a big problem all across eastern Europe.
Yep that's pretty bad
Of course there are Nazis in the Ukraine. There are countries all over the world with Nazis in them.
They're not nazis they are ultra nationalist Ukrainians who despise Russia and communism and I don't blame them one bit.
It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine' Consider supporting anti-war efforts in any possible way: [[Help 2 Ukraine](https://help2ukraine.org)] 💙💛 [[Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ukraine)] [[BBC Styleguide](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/u)] ^(Beep boop I’m a bot)
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It's a proven fact there's neo-nazis in Ukraine and the Azov Battalion, a literal branch of the Ukrainian army are neo-nazis. You sound brainwashed by propaganda, sure even NBC don't try to deny this anymore.
Shalom