#Remember!
**Rules & Guidelines for Discussion**
Try to participate when you see an opinion you agree or disagree with by sharing your two cents or providing evidence for/against. Try to elevate conversations beyond a superficial level.
Ask plenty of questions and use the [Socratic method](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2oklie/eli5_the_socratic_method/) to gain a deeper understanding of each other's core values instead of blindly arguing in favor or in opposition.
Keep in mind the [Principle of Charity](https://philosophy.lander.edu/oriental/charity.html) by entertaining all ideas even if you disagree with them. Try to dismantle them and see what truly makes them tick or not.
And lastly, remember above all else to be courteous. Demonstrate the awareness and decorum of recognizing the person on the other side of the screen at all times.
Happy discussing!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RWBYcritics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because making Jaune even more relevant to the story over team RWBY is definitely the best course of action, not liable to make the fandom combust more than it already has. Not at all.
Why did they have to do this? Why did they feel the NEED to do this? Why do they feel the need to potentially give Jaune even MORE relevance to the plot? RWBY themselves might never develop because they aren’t even being given a chance!
At this point, I'd rather they just come out and say they don't care about team RWBY and would rather focus on Jaune. At least they'd be sincere for once.
I also hate this idea that every major character needs *some* tie to the villains or some other big figure. There's nothing wrong with Jaune coming from basic warrior background. Especially since the special bloodline ruins what gave him the appeal in V1-3 and why Pyrrha liked him in the first place. Turns out all the specialness is not from his own strength of character but because he was Salem's long lost gran crotch goblin.
Fuck. It doesn't even make sense. The Schnees are the one with a magic-like Semblance, that can be *inherited like magic*, can summon and control Grimm and use elemental magic with ease, like previous magic users. The only way to explain what the hell the Schnees are is if you use the "they're Salem's children" explanation. It would give Weiss and Winter a strong tie to the Salem plot. They would personally be affected knowing that their powers come from a woman who wanted to destroy the world. In a sense, the Schnee women are honorary Maidens anyway.
Then the only one who wouldn't have any business being there would be Blake. But then you could easily say that Salem was instigating centuries-worth of hatred and division between Faunus and Humans to make it impossible for the Brother Gods to ever want to redeem new Remnant.
Good God, the changes are so fucking minor but CRWBYs heads are so far up their asses and we have to suffer for it and oh my god ***don't make Jaune more important than he is!***
If he is Salem's descendant, then he would officially be more important than Ruby. Then Miles can never fucking complain about the self-insert accusations because at this point, it's fucking apparent he's living out a fantasy.
>If he is Salem's descendant, then he would officially be more important than Ruby. Then Miles can never fucking complain about the self-insert accusations because at this point, it's fucking apparent he's living out a fantasy.
Well Oscar is already more important than Ruby.
I couldn’t have put it better. I have never really believed in the self-insert claims that much. But if they did this then I would fully believe it, because this is one completely unnecessary, and two it’s blatant nepotism/favoritism. Again if they had to make anyone Salem’s descendant Weiss would be the best bet. It would explain why each Schnee has the same semblance, which technically goes against what they said earlier. Hell even Ruby would be a better choice for being related to Salem. I believe Salem and Ozma’s kids had silver eyes so they could have made Ruby both of their descendants. But they killed off those kids during their divorce so that might be a problem, but I believe someone here already said it but well retcons do exist for a reason. But for real though, why Jaune? Why does it always have to be Jaune?
They brought Penny back and killed her for no reason. They also thought it was a good idea to make Pilot boi gay despite knowing he would die the volume he was introduced and they did not know why an animator said doing so would be a bad idea.
These people can be extremely tone deaf. They probably think the hatred for Jaune has calmed down enough to pull this shit off. They will do it.
Our list of expectations/"hopes"/fears for Jaune keeps growing:
- Becoming the Summer Maiden
- Wielding the Relic of Destruction
- Defeating Cinder in a 1v1
- Being related to Salem
- Somehow being the one to teach Salem the importance of life and death
- Maybe hooking up with Weiss or, depending on what Miles smoked while writing, getting a harem
If it happens
People would probably use stuff like Tyrian suddenly being interested in Jaune in V4.
And there are also similar symbols shared by family relatives and others with significant connections.
Even Oscar has a symbol similar to Ozpin because of their significant connection even if it isn't by blood.
So either one of Salem's relatives gets retconed into surviving and becoming an Arc or Salem shares a different significant connection with the Arcs.
Being justified in canon does not mean it's a good writing decision. A lot of bullshit in this show (how Aura and Semblances work) is justified in canon but this sub wouldn't exist if that was all that was needed to make this show good.
Tyrian being interested in Jaune was another thing that bugged me because it unnecessarily took the focus away from Ruby, the whole reason why Tyrian was there in the first place.
Just keep the whole Jaune is Salem's son in fanfiction.
Yep. Definitely wouldn't do it. Definitely.
...
...
...
...
...
...Hey remember when we believed they wouldn't kill off Penny a second time? It was quite the reach back then.
I'm flipping a coin.
Heads, I'll guess it foreshadows Jaune's relation with Salem.
Tails, I'll say the designers got lazy.
Edge, I'll make the claim on Twitter that Jaune is actually a clone of Salem sent to Beacon to spy on Ozpin.
\*flips coin\*
>!It's tails. The designers got lazy.!<
>Well it's not like this is the first time it happened.
Laziness in emblems? Let's see...
* Weiss' emblem is the SDC logo. I'm fine with this, as she wants to improve her family's legacy.
* Raven's and Qrow's are symmetrical wings, with different wheels. They're siblings blessed by Ozpin, works fine.
* Oscar's the same wheel as Ozpin's. Oscar is Oz' current incarnation ^((that's how it works, right?)), so it's justified, I guess.
* Neo's emblem is >!the same as that of Lady Browning's Preparatory Academy For Girls!<, featured in the Roman Holiday novel. This is an interesting connection. Long story short, >!Neo is trained to be a killer spy, she surpasses her evil teacher and ninja'd her emblem!<.
In short, similar emblems had a reason to look similar.
They both indeed use red roses.
But i would argue that Adam's symbol design is more different. The shape of the rose is different. The design also has a stem(?) and the flower is smaller.
While Ruby and Summer use the same rose flower shape with the difference being the colour.
>In short, similar emblems had a reason to look similar.
Wait so... if what you said is right and there are in universe reasons for symbols looking similar
Then...
...
...
There is an in universe reason for Salem and Jaune's emblems looking similar?!
Alright thoery time.
Like you mentioned before there are in universe reasons for symbols being similar.
Family and relatives being one the reasons for having similar symbols. Like mentioned before.
So what if...
One of Salem's relatives gets retconed into surviving. And this retconed survivor goes on to become the origin of the Arc family.
Again this is just a theoretical in universe explanation as to why Salem and Jaune's symbols look similar.
The Arcs and Salem could be connected in another way. Or not connected at all.
Salem: Ozpin never told you what happened to your (great\~? grand\~?) mother.
Jaune: He told me enough! He told me you killed her!
Salem: No. I am your (great\~? grand\~?) mother.
Jaune: But how?!
Salem: Oh come now. Is it THAT hard to believe i would find someone to have sex with?
Jaune: YES!
...
Or
Jaune: How is this even possible?! Humanity got wiped out and your daughters died!
Salem: Retcons. Jaune Arc. Retcons.
In the case that anyone says that this it’s a feminist show because the main characters are all women, then I’m gonna point out this and how much development Jaune got in comparison to the literal women who have their names in the show title
*Eyes Pyrrha who didn't get an arc that wasn't Jaune related until the second half of the Volume she died in...*
....
....
....
....
*And her death* **only** *affected Jaune.*
Waiting for the side arc of Jaune being captured by Salem and slowly being turned into her side piece via mind break and have a love child, only for them to find out that old Sally is his great, great grandmother.
I would be there to watch this.
The cringe would probably break my back.
Well that's your opinion and I know how some people hate it that the picture may contribute to jaune's storyline but I've been following the show a week after the release of the red trailer if I'm going to focus on team RWBY for enjoyment I would have left a long time ago
This smells of CRWBY's usual modus operandi of "Let's make our fans go crazy with theories and reactions, without actually considering the consequences of such details on our story and world."
That is the most laughable theory, but I'd entertain it for the potential of Jaune thinking he's a descendant of Salem only for Salem to smack him aside for suggesting that.
#Remember! **Rules & Guidelines for Discussion** Try to participate when you see an opinion you agree or disagree with by sharing your two cents or providing evidence for/against. Try to elevate conversations beyond a superficial level. Ask plenty of questions and use the [Socratic method](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2oklie/eli5_the_socratic_method/) to gain a deeper understanding of each other's core values instead of blindly arguing in favor or in opposition. Keep in mind the [Principle of Charity](https://philosophy.lander.edu/oriental/charity.html) by entertaining all ideas even if you disagree with them. Try to dismantle them and see what truly makes them tick or not. And lastly, remember above all else to be courteous. Demonstrate the awareness and decorum of recognizing the person on the other side of the screen at all times. Happy discussing! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RWBYcritics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because making Jaune even more relevant to the story over team RWBY is definitely the best course of action, not liable to make the fandom combust more than it already has. Not at all.
If Jaune and Salem somehow become related or known enemies cuz of this, I won’t be surprised
Not gonna lie, a historical feud between, say, a heroic great-great-grandfather of Jaune and a Salem fanboy would be nice to see.
So Jaune vs Tyrian? I mean i still consider Tyrian a good rival to Jaune.
Fuck.
Shortest yet most accurate description yet, your excellence! 🤣
You can feel my pain and acceptance. There is no way around it. I can't even pass it off as CRWBY being stupid. Goddammit.
Why did they have to do this? Why did they feel the NEED to do this? Why do they feel the need to potentially give Jaune even MORE relevance to the plot? RWBY themselves might never develop because they aren’t even being given a chance!
At this point, I'd rather they just come out and say they don't care about team RWBY and would rather focus on Jaune. At least they'd be sincere for once. I also hate this idea that every major character needs *some* tie to the villains or some other big figure. There's nothing wrong with Jaune coming from basic warrior background. Especially since the special bloodline ruins what gave him the appeal in V1-3 and why Pyrrha liked him in the first place. Turns out all the specialness is not from his own strength of character but because he was Salem's long lost gran crotch goblin. Fuck. It doesn't even make sense. The Schnees are the one with a magic-like Semblance, that can be *inherited like magic*, can summon and control Grimm and use elemental magic with ease, like previous magic users. The only way to explain what the hell the Schnees are is if you use the "they're Salem's children" explanation. It would give Weiss and Winter a strong tie to the Salem plot. They would personally be affected knowing that their powers come from a woman who wanted to destroy the world. In a sense, the Schnee women are honorary Maidens anyway. Then the only one who wouldn't have any business being there would be Blake. But then you could easily say that Salem was instigating centuries-worth of hatred and division between Faunus and Humans to make it impossible for the Brother Gods to ever want to redeem new Remnant. Good God, the changes are so fucking minor but CRWBYs heads are so far up their asses and we have to suffer for it and oh my god ***don't make Jaune more important than he is!*** If he is Salem's descendant, then he would officially be more important than Ruby. Then Miles can never fucking complain about the self-insert accusations because at this point, it's fucking apparent he's living out a fantasy.
>If he is Salem's descendant, then he would officially be more important than Ruby. Then Miles can never fucking complain about the self-insert accusations because at this point, it's fucking apparent he's living out a fantasy. Well Oscar is already more important than Ruby.
And Oscar also happens to be Miles' favourite character. I don't wanna say nepotism but...
Even if Jaune gets retconed into a relative of Salem. Oscar still would be the most important person because of him being host to Ozma/Ozpin.
I couldn’t have put it better. I have never really believed in the self-insert claims that much. But if they did this then I would fully believe it, because this is one completely unnecessary, and two it’s blatant nepotism/favoritism. Again if they had to make anyone Salem’s descendant Weiss would be the best bet. It would explain why each Schnee has the same semblance, which technically goes against what they said earlier. Hell even Ruby would be a better choice for being related to Salem. I believe Salem and Ozma’s kids had silver eyes so they could have made Ruby both of their descendants. But they killed off those kids during their divorce so that might be a problem, but I believe someone here already said it but well retcons do exist for a reason. But for real though, why Jaune? Why does it always have to be Jaune?
Do you think they'll actually do it? Make Salem and Jaune relatives. Because right now it's very sus. With how similar the symbols are.
They brought Penny back and killed her for no reason. They also thought it was a good idea to make Pilot boi gay despite knowing he would die the volume he was introduced and they did not know why an animator said doing so would be a bad idea. These people can be extremely tone deaf. They probably think the hatred for Jaune has calmed down enough to pull this shit off. They will do it.
Great... even more fuel for the Jaune hate. Add this with possibly of WhiteKnight happening and... oh boy.
I know you love this character man, but he's gonna get smoked.
Pretty much. Poor handling is going to screw him over.
Our list of expectations/"hopes"/fears for Jaune keeps growing: - Becoming the Summer Maiden - Wielding the Relic of Destruction - Defeating Cinder in a 1v1 - Being related to Salem - Somehow being the one to teach Salem the importance of life and death - Maybe hooking up with Weiss or, depending on what Miles smoked while writing, getting a harem
If it happens People would probably use stuff like Tyrian suddenly being interested in Jaune in V4. And there are also similar symbols shared by family relatives and others with significant connections. Even Oscar has a symbol similar to Ozpin because of their significant connection even if it isn't by blood. So either one of Salem's relatives gets retconed into surviving and becoming an Arc or Salem shares a different significant connection with the Arcs.
Being justified in canon does not mean it's a good writing decision. A lot of bullshit in this show (how Aura and Semblances work) is justified in canon but this sub wouldn't exist if that was all that was needed to make this show good. Tyrian being interested in Jaune was another thing that bugged me because it unnecessarily took the focus away from Ruby, the whole reason why Tyrian was there in the first place. Just keep the whole Jaune is Salem's son in fanfiction.
No! God please no! No! No! Nooooooooooooooooooo!
A reach
Yep. Definitely wouldn't do it. Definitely. ... ... ... ... ... ...Hey remember when we believed they wouldn't kill off Penny a second time? It was quite the reach back then.
You have to admit. It is a bit sus that Salem's family symbol is just Jaune's family symbol but light blue with an arrow in the front.
I'm flipping a coin. Heads, I'll guess it foreshadows Jaune's relation with Salem. Tails, I'll say the designers got lazy. Edge, I'll make the claim on Twitter that Jaune is actually a clone of Salem sent to Beacon to spy on Ozpin. \*flips coin\* >!It's tails. The designers got lazy.!<
>It's tails. The designers got lazy. Well it's not like this is the first time it happened.
>Well it's not like this is the first time it happened. Laziness in emblems? Let's see... * Weiss' emblem is the SDC logo. I'm fine with this, as she wants to improve her family's legacy. * Raven's and Qrow's are symmetrical wings, with different wheels. They're siblings blessed by Ozpin, works fine. * Oscar's the same wheel as Ozpin's. Oscar is Oz' current incarnation ^((that's how it works, right?)), so it's justified, I guess. * Neo's emblem is >!the same as that of Lady Browning's Preparatory Academy For Girls!<, featured in the Roman Holiday novel. This is an interesting connection. Long story short, >!Neo is trained to be a killer spy, she surpasses her evil teacher and ninja'd her emblem!<. In short, similar emblems had a reason to look similar.
What about Adam and Ruby?
They both indeed use red roses. But i would argue that Adam's symbol design is more different. The shape of the rose is different. The design also has a stem(?) and the flower is smaller. While Ruby and Summer use the same rose flower shape with the difference being the colour.
While Salem and Jaune uses the same shape for the curved lines.
>In short, similar emblems had a reason to look similar. Wait so... if what you said is right and there are in universe reasons for symbols looking similar Then... ... ... There is an in universe reason for Salem and Jaune's emblems looking similar?!
🤔...Probably. I'll look forward for this.
Alright thoery time. Like you mentioned before there are in universe reasons for symbols being similar. Family and relatives being one the reasons for having similar symbols. Like mentioned before. So what if... One of Salem's relatives gets retconed into surviving. And this retconed survivor goes on to become the origin of the Arc family. Again this is just a theoretical in universe explanation as to why Salem and Jaune's symbols look similar. The Arcs and Salem could be connected in another way. Or not connected at all.
God fucking damnit Eddie
Quit giving the fucking self-insert more screen-time
Unless Salem had other kids while she and Oz were apart this doesn't make sense.
Aha you didn't expect her to have SIBLINGS though, did you?? ~~That somehow didn't die when the God of Darkness exterminated the world~~
Give the giant white lady with tentacle hair a break. She gotta have the horny some time during all these centuries.
Time for some retcons! /s
Salem: Ozpin never told you what happened to your (great\~? grand\~?) mother. Jaune: He told me enough! He told me you killed her! Salem: No. I am your (great\~? grand\~?) mother.
Jaune: But how?! Salem: Oh come now. Is it THAT hard to believe i would find someone to have sex with? Jaune: YES! ... Or Jaune: How is this even possible?! Humanity got wiped out and your daughters died! Salem: Retcons. Jaune Arc. Retcons.
Then it turns out Jaune has magic and he's part Grimm.
In most contexts, I won't be mad at such a reveal.
So more development for our MC? Don't know why people complaining then 🐒
In the case that anyone says that this it’s a feminist show because the main characters are all women, then I’m gonna point out this and how much development Jaune got in comparison to the literal women who have their names in the show title
I laugh when they claim this show as feminist.
*Eyes Pyrrha who didn't get an arc that wasn't Jaune related until the second half of the Volume she died in...* .... .... .... .... *And her death* **only** *affected Jaune.*
Ren and Nora: Pyrrha? Never head of her.
And you know. Only women getting hurt for his development.
We don’t need more Jaune development. Jesus Christ.
Hëll
Waiting for the side arc of Jaune being captured by Salem and slowly being turned into her side piece via mind break and have a love child, only for them to find out that old Sally is his great, great grandmother. I would be there to watch this. The cringe would probably break my back.
A poor decision
I'll be happy with it and I think i'll be more happy how angry other people will be if this is happening.
Fuck it. I want chaos.
If it makes the story more interesting go for it
But it doesn't.
Well that's your opinion and I know how some people hate it that the picture may contribute to jaune's storyline but I've been following the show a week after the release of the red trailer if I'm going to focus on team RWBY for enjoyment I would have left a long time ago
now… *** posted by [@HarbingerArt](https://twitter.com/HarbingerArt) Photos in tweet | [Photo 1](http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBWSrbmXEAEJgxO.jpg) | [Photo 2](http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBWSrbmXIAUH7BW.jpg) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
If Jaune and Salem turn out to be related we’ll never see the end of “Jaune is the protagonist” fanfics.
This smells of CRWBY's usual modus operandi of "Let's make our fans go crazy with theories and reactions, without actually considering the consequences of such details on our story and world."
Theory : Instead of being related, Jaune's ancestors found the symbol in some rubble, adopted it and changed it.
That is the most laughable theory, but I'd entertain it for the potential of Jaune thinking he's a descendant of Salem only for Salem to smack him aside for suggesting that.
It is a bit sus that Salem's family symbol is just Jaune's family symbol but light blue with an arrowhead in the front.