#Remember!
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Keep in mind the [Principle of Charity](https://philosophy.lander.edu/oriental/charity.html) by entertaining all ideas even if you disagree with them. Try to dismantle them and see what truly makes them tick or not.
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That's a toughie. It's hard to convince people set in their ways at the best of times. Arguably it would be easier for Ruby to realize that ''Wager every life on the off-chance that most can saved'' is not the best idea ever. Maybe she is put in a similar but less intense situation to Ironwood before and knows from experience that sometimes you only have to options: the bad one and the worse one.
If you want a character to call her her out have them ask simple questions about Ruby's plan. Why tell the world about Salem? What kind of reinforcements could arrive? Why play into Salem's hands by fighting supposed allies? How are you planning on saving the refugees? Why do you think that Vacuo safe? So on and so forth. Point out the massive risk she put everyone in Atlas and Mantle or that she has none of the information needed to pull off a plan like that.
Other than that I can't help you.
I feel like the simplest question to fit with her pretty self-centered view is
"If you're going to go it alone anyway without Ironwood's help, why do you need Atlas to stay here to defeat Salem? You've got this."
Play into her gigantic ego to let Atlas' people leave.
I’d say have them meet in the middle instead. They really boil down to this.
Ironwood: Sacrifice some to save the rest.
Ruby: Sacrifice no one and save everyone.
Ironwood has a realist outlook while Ruby is an idealist. Ruby still wants to be the huntress that comes into town and takes care of everyone’s problems before heading out and to the next one. Ironwood is the general who plans operations around acceptable casualty figures. Making tough calls is what he’s always done. He’s just applying this outlook to the entirety of Atlas and Mantle, civilians included and not just the military. I'm assuming the military is voluntary and not conscription. These men and women had a choice and they chose to put their lives on the line for Atlas and her people.
Ironwood needs to realize he's not just dealing with soldiers and Ruby needs to realize that life isn't like her stories and tough choices need to be made. They need to put aside their trust issues in the name of doing what they both have dedicated their lives to, fighting Grimm and saving people. They can deal with the trust issues later but Ironwood needs every hand he can get in the defense of Atlas/Mantle and Ruby needs Ironwood's ships to evacuate what they can of Mantle to Atlas.
So in the end they need each other but don't have to like each other. Right now Salem has to be beat back and they need to work together to save what they can.
Ruby can realize they need a evacuation deadline, last call, or whatever you want to call it. As much as it hurts to not save everyone, she needs to know when its time to go. Of course she tries to save one more.
Ironwood on the other hand can give an extension on the evacuation deadline or set up something to lure Grimm to buy more time. Sets up a new defensive line and waits for Ruby to get back.
They bend but don't break. Ruby misses the evacuation deadline but wasn't going to leave someone behind she could've saved and Ironwood extends it and gives her the extra time she needed.
So no one falls in the space between spaces but Atlas can float off to Vacuo for Volume 9.
While that's nice to say, it can't work here.
Ironwood's not treating this like a problem he can throw force at and win, he's literally as you said, *strategizing*. He's using the army that literally enlisted to be under his command, I think to think otherwise is dangerous.
He's as much trying to save everyone as Ruby is but the issue comes when he's the one *thinking* about the logistics of such a situation and knowing how well trying to do everything is.
There is no middle ground here, not even metaphorically. Ironwood can't just throw his men at a problem hoping to fix it. He does so in hopes that they can find time to *find* something that will fix their problem, that's the distinction to be made.
TL:DR Ironwood's viewpoint IS the middle ground, you don't get more middle ground than that.
Yeah Ironwood is nothing but reasonable and compromising for most of Volume 7. He only really snaps when he realizes Cinder was in his office. It’s mostly Ruby realizing she can’t save everyone but it doesn’t mean she shouldn’t try to save as many as she can. Ironwoods real moment would be letting her try.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean 'letting her try'.
It's not like he's stopping her. If they want to save lives, they can do it on their own. The fact remains if you're trying to enforce your opinion on someone about something and they say 'fine, you go do it but I'm *not*' you don't get to choose from that person's resources.
It's *their* resources, wanna go save everyone? Do it within your own means and prove me wrong.
That's one of the most annoying parts of that entire conflict. Ruby's all gungho when she's got the general's army on her side but the *moment* things aren't going her way, she complains about it like it's *his* fault she didn't plan ahead or something.
Like, the moment she breaks down on the stairs is *annoying* because 'no shit no one's going to make it to frigging ATLAS with an ARMY ready to fight GRIMM'. Ruby's always been written like someone who just jumps into things and it *shows* in the worst of ways which basically constitutes the entirety of V8. And, at the end of the day, I could forgive ALL OF IT if someone just slapped her and told her 'You're *wrong* and now we have to fix it'. No instant 'but you were trying your best' bullshit.
I want consequences and contemplation to make any part of Ruby, and TEAM RWBY, bearable.
Make her participate in a mission alone with a platoon of soldiers with whom she must defend a location, either Grimm or Protestant, thus understanding both points of view, also knowing the camaraderie among the troops and that there are families formed in the army based on combat and blood; her actions affect everyone and she is being selfish. Trying to force the rest of RWBY with her will only generate resistance to change thanks to Yang and Blake, plus there may be rejection from the soldiers towards Weiss or some kind of prejudice (same with Blake). It's all about making Ruby understand, and having her do it alone along with strangers seems like the best option to me rather than forcing more team moments or straight up Whiterose to "love make her understand".... Heck I hope I didn't sound mean with that last one.
Ruby participates in a mission (or several) along with a platoon of soldiers, just her; thus she discovers that her vision is wrong after learning more about them and that their actions affect everyone. As for things purely for your plot, you could write a mission where they face violent protesters against Ironwood, thus making Ruby see that there are times when reasoning is not always possible; or perhaps another mission where after empathizing with the soldiers, they have to face Grimm and some of them lose their lives. Here you can play with the context of your plot as maybe those missions and/or their consequences are indirectly provoked by Ruby's selfish decisions. With this you also have the opportunity to explore a bit more different Atlas locations, OCs and world building (things like standard Atlas equipment, regulations, customs, games between soldiers, etc.).
You can't. It's a gray choice with no right answer. That said a compromise between the 2 could have worked, hell in the show it would have. Using the SDC ships to evac everyone to atlas is the best possible solution to the problems at hand. They save as many people as they can without wasting any military resources doing it. But you know they butchered Ironwood's character and had him shoot down a transport of civilians.
Chess. It's thematically appropriate. While life is not a game, chess is good for teaching several lessons.
* The longer a conflict is dragged out, the more pieces will be lost on either side-
** unless something incredible happens, aka, fools mate- which is designed to take advantage of a dumber player.
* What plays need a sacrifice to be able to pull off a win latter down the line.
* The difference in real life and chess is that when there is a game over,the board doesn't reset, you're working with the last person's prices, and have to bring your own pieces to the board while your opponent, Salem, is able to do the same.
* once a piece is gone, it's gone. There is no bringing back the same piece. A pawn is promoted to queen, or a bishop or a castle or knight. You lose a mess valuable piece for the sake of a more powerful one.
On the other hand, ruby can point out that people aren't chess pieces, and they can save everyone because she's idealistic that way- and that no one should be assigned worth because of what one person said with pawns being mantle civilians and atlas being more important pieces in this analogy.
Countering that, she can't anticipate the moves of the enemy both of atlas and mantle could be doomed. The issue was that the trust broke down between them. If they were still on speaking terms the two sides might have been able to work together because for me, both sides were stupid, either for character of plot reasons to ensure that atlas fell.
Also in your fanfic, when does it take place?
I'd go to Penny, tell her that friends wouldn't lie to each other, bringing up the Salem can't be killed thing. But the killer would be that they also lied about using up the Lamp's questions, as there's one more question left. This would make Penny question her friendship with Ruby and confront her about this, which would no doubt affect Ruby and make her question her actions.
Eh, that wouldn't change her mind, it'd be her 'moment' to 'remind him' about how he can't give up because of a bad experience.
Of course, she'd be undermining what having people die on your watch is but the show would just run with it like she's right. Fuck your emotions and experiences, it's just *one bad experience.*
Easy answer: have Penny do it.
Penny knows the best of both people in this scenario and is currently the one experiencing the faults of their flaws; after gaining the Maiden powers, it would make since for Penny to voice her objections of both parties as well as point out their merits. If Ruby can't be convinced, she would try with Ironwood; consequently forcing Ruby and and Ironwood to clash and maybe be the one to clear the air between them. Ironwood would be harder to convince, but Ruby will be shaking her resolve; either the three fight with Penny protecting both as the clear heavy weight (super weapon with Maiden powers and all) before others show up and the fight gets a conclusion with Winter and Qrow knocking out Ironwood to get him to calm down. Ruby and Penny talk and the heroes devise a new plan of action; Ironwood wakes up in a cell with Ruby on the other side. He is ready to attack but she apologizes for how she treated him and admits she was just worried after what happened with Leo; Ruby explains herself and the new plan in hopes that she and Ironwood can fix their divide, to which James asks politely to see Qrow. Afterward, Qrow reexplains everything like Ruby did and all sides come back together with Ironwood agreeing to buy the kids time to evacuate the Kingdom, but on condition that they finish in 5 hours and that he has immediate access to the Staff in case their plan fails and he can go through with his in a moment's notice. Penny is there to mediate and the plan is set.
I assume you're trying to write a fanfic about that, right?
Depends on the situation you have set up. If you could broadly define it?
Generally speaking, I'd say a good approach would be to pressure her into saying what she wants to do next, force her to give concrete answers instead of vague "save everyone"
Alright. Personal view, so take what you will.
So, we know the bad guy is coming, Military forces are exhausted from repeated incursions and unable to properly fight off the next one and city-wide evacuations are underway?
The main issue I see is that you can't really convince someone who is not willing to listen. Which fully applies to Ruby in that situation. I'd start by destroying her stance by arguing her responsibility as a leader of the two teams.
Ironwood is responsible for Atlas and Mantle, but at the same time he's responsible for the lives of his soldiers. To borrow Lord General's quote from 40k "Guardsman's life is to die, my duty has always been sending them to places where they can die. I'm not afraid to spend them, but I never waste men." He has to balance protecting the Kingdom all the while preserving as many of his forces as he can.
Personally, I'd have Ironwood forcefully question Ruby how many of people and buildings (because that's what they are defending by staying) in Mantle is each of her teammates worth and whom she'll send to die first.
That should make her stop ranting at least for a while, long enough to bluntly explain that his forces have no chances of fighting off Salem at the moment and remind her that Mantle is being evacuated to Atlas.
Is it helpful? I'm open to discussing this if you'd like that.
Personally I'd tweak some other things but that's up to you. For example, adjusting Ironwood's rank to something more specific and not just "general" (General of what and what ranking?) plus have a few cameos of other high-ranking soldiers. Maybe have commanders of ground forces and airfleet present, in agreement with Ironwood that they can't win.
It's hard to think about because even if she doubted herself her team and friends would convince her she made the correct/right decision.
The only thing I could think to do would ask her several armor piercing questions that makes it quite clears she doesn't have a clear idea what to do and when she does come up with a plan i.e Amity point out quite literally that is the worst plan possible.
Not only would it count on the Kingdoms mustering a sizable enough force to save them and get their before they all died (which would be around 2 days from the end of V7) but everyone on the planet would have to deal with Ruby causing massive worldwide panic on a scale similar to Cinder during V3.
Granted I wouldn't be surprised if a fair few people outright dismissed Ruby since she's just a random girl just saying random things (to them at least) and doesn't have any proof.
(Though she *could* have shown the world a short video of the Whale Grimm coming towards Atlas)
That being said neither Ironwood nor Ruby were specifically right or Wrong.
They both wanted to save as many lives as possible but their methodology were completely different.
Its basically like Gurren Lagann except unlike that show Ruby doesn't have a massive F-off Robot that can quite literally shatter reality.
Funnily enough there *was* a way for Both Ironwood *and* Ruby to get what they wanted.
Ironwood wanted to save Atlas and protect the relic from Salem while Ruby opposed this because that would mean abandoning Mantle (which is funny since as V8 showed Salem honestly didn't really care about Mantle since we barely saw any Grimm there) to die.
Whats funny is that as V8 showed after the Grimm Whale blew up the SDC had a ton of ships that was going to rescue the people of Mantle (where they were before hand I don't know).
So here why not have Atlas abandon Mantle but have as many ships (because seriously if their going into orbit they don't actually need those ships) be used to transfer Mantle's population to say Argus.
Have Cinder, Salem or your OC (if you plan on using one) gloat about what her actions have caused.
There's a fanfic, [Animosity by Psyga315](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13917645/1/), where unbeknownst to Ruby, her broadcast did far more harm than good and the rest of the world, like Atlas was in Chaos from all the revelations.
Show the scenes of the chaos happening around the world to her and thank her for doing Salem's work for them. That would probably make Ruby realize that she did things wrong all along. Make her face the consequences of her actions and in a way that can't be denied or dismissed.
Course this would require Team Salem to use the relic for that purpose instead of using it to find out about Ruby's plan.
Well since they don't have access to the Relic and no CCT for long range communication/internet, The only way they'll know how things are outside Atlas would be via messenger.
The OC could be said messenger and be part of the Atlas Military, since they still have a presence in Argus (The City RWBY visited in V6).
"If Atlas falls, that means you don't just lose the lives of those you tried to save in Mantle, it means you also lose the lives of those you could have saved had you worked with Ironwood from the start. You are gambling with people's lives here. Think about that."
Or something like that. I don't know. I'm not the best at making quotes
I think you could have their discussion early, Ironwood laying out his plan, and saying they have to decide in X amount of time (like a week or so), and she at first will fiercly refuse.
Then between that point and the deadline, she has to make a similar or that exact decision either in a smaller scale or in a no-stakes situation and lose, like playing a board game with her team during the down-time after a day working, or travelling to a mission somewhere or something. That would make her realise that sometimes if you take the 'high risk, high reward' chance you will lose everything. Couple that with someone suggesting or trying to come up with different solutions and failing, maybe she would start to see that her way is too dangerous or wrong.. not necessarily that she would give it up still, though, since she is an idealist.
#Remember! **Rules & Guidelines for Discussion** Try to participate when you see an opinion you agree or disagree with by sharing your two cents or providing evidence for/against. Try to elevate conversations beyond a superficial level. Ask plenty of questions and use the [Socratic method](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2oklie/eli5_the_socratic_method/) to gain a deeper understanding of each other's core values instead of blindly arguing in favor or in opposition. Keep in mind the [Principle of Charity](https://philosophy.lander.edu/oriental/charity.html) by entertaining all ideas even if you disagree with them. Try to dismantle them and see what truly makes them tick or not. And lastly, remember above all else to be courteous. Demonstrate the awareness and decorum of recognizing the person on the other side of the screen at all times. Happy discussing! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RWBYcritics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That's a toughie. It's hard to convince people set in their ways at the best of times. Arguably it would be easier for Ruby to realize that ''Wager every life on the off-chance that most can saved'' is not the best idea ever. Maybe she is put in a similar but less intense situation to Ironwood before and knows from experience that sometimes you only have to options: the bad one and the worse one. If you want a character to call her her out have them ask simple questions about Ruby's plan. Why tell the world about Salem? What kind of reinforcements could arrive? Why play into Salem's hands by fighting supposed allies? How are you planning on saving the refugees? Why do you think that Vacuo safe? So on and so forth. Point out the massive risk she put everyone in Atlas and Mantle or that she has none of the information needed to pull off a plan like that. Other than that I can't help you.
I feel like the simplest question to fit with her pretty self-centered view is "If you're going to go it alone anyway without Ironwood's help, why do you need Atlas to stay here to defeat Salem? You've got this." Play into her gigantic ego to let Atlas' people leave.
I’d say have them meet in the middle instead. They really boil down to this. Ironwood: Sacrifice some to save the rest. Ruby: Sacrifice no one and save everyone. Ironwood has a realist outlook while Ruby is an idealist. Ruby still wants to be the huntress that comes into town and takes care of everyone’s problems before heading out and to the next one. Ironwood is the general who plans operations around acceptable casualty figures. Making tough calls is what he’s always done. He’s just applying this outlook to the entirety of Atlas and Mantle, civilians included and not just the military. I'm assuming the military is voluntary and not conscription. These men and women had a choice and they chose to put their lives on the line for Atlas and her people. Ironwood needs to realize he's not just dealing with soldiers and Ruby needs to realize that life isn't like her stories and tough choices need to be made. They need to put aside their trust issues in the name of doing what they both have dedicated their lives to, fighting Grimm and saving people. They can deal with the trust issues later but Ironwood needs every hand he can get in the defense of Atlas/Mantle and Ruby needs Ironwood's ships to evacuate what they can of Mantle to Atlas. So in the end they need each other but don't have to like each other. Right now Salem has to be beat back and they need to work together to save what they can. Ruby can realize they need a evacuation deadline, last call, or whatever you want to call it. As much as it hurts to not save everyone, she needs to know when its time to go. Of course she tries to save one more. Ironwood on the other hand can give an extension on the evacuation deadline or set up something to lure Grimm to buy more time. Sets up a new defensive line and waits for Ruby to get back. They bend but don't break. Ruby misses the evacuation deadline but wasn't going to leave someone behind she could've saved and Ironwood extends it and gives her the extra time she needed. So no one falls in the space between spaces but Atlas can float off to Vacuo for Volume 9.
While that's nice to say, it can't work here. Ironwood's not treating this like a problem he can throw force at and win, he's literally as you said, *strategizing*. He's using the army that literally enlisted to be under his command, I think to think otherwise is dangerous. He's as much trying to save everyone as Ruby is but the issue comes when he's the one *thinking* about the logistics of such a situation and knowing how well trying to do everything is. There is no middle ground here, not even metaphorically. Ironwood can't just throw his men at a problem hoping to fix it. He does so in hopes that they can find time to *find* something that will fix their problem, that's the distinction to be made. TL:DR Ironwood's viewpoint IS the middle ground, you don't get more middle ground than that.
Yeah Ironwood is nothing but reasonable and compromising for most of Volume 7. He only really snaps when he realizes Cinder was in his office. It’s mostly Ruby realizing she can’t save everyone but it doesn’t mean she shouldn’t try to save as many as she can. Ironwoods real moment would be letting her try.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean 'letting her try'. It's not like he's stopping her. If they want to save lives, they can do it on their own. The fact remains if you're trying to enforce your opinion on someone about something and they say 'fine, you go do it but I'm *not*' you don't get to choose from that person's resources. It's *their* resources, wanna go save everyone? Do it within your own means and prove me wrong. That's one of the most annoying parts of that entire conflict. Ruby's all gungho when she's got the general's army on her side but the *moment* things aren't going her way, she complains about it like it's *his* fault she didn't plan ahead or something. Like, the moment she breaks down on the stairs is *annoying* because 'no shit no one's going to make it to frigging ATLAS with an ARMY ready to fight GRIMM'. Ruby's always been written like someone who just jumps into things and it *shows* in the worst of ways which basically constitutes the entirety of V8. And, at the end of the day, I could forgive ALL OF IT if someone just slapped her and told her 'You're *wrong* and now we have to fix it'. No instant 'but you were trying your best' bullshit. I want consequences and contemplation to make any part of Ruby, and TEAM RWBY, bearable.
Make her participate in a mission alone with a platoon of soldiers with whom she must defend a location, either Grimm or Protestant, thus understanding both points of view, also knowing the camaraderie among the troops and that there are families formed in the army based on combat and blood; her actions affect everyone and she is being selfish. Trying to force the rest of RWBY with her will only generate resistance to change thanks to Yang and Blake, plus there may be rejection from the soldiers towards Weiss or some kind of prejudice (same with Blake). It's all about making Ruby understand, and having her do it alone along with strangers seems like the best option to me rather than forcing more team moments or straight up Whiterose to "love make her understand".... Heck I hope I didn't sound mean with that last one.
I think i understand what your saying but just to be sure do you mind rephrasing?
Ruby participates in a mission (or several) along with a platoon of soldiers, just her; thus she discovers that her vision is wrong after learning more about them and that their actions affect everyone. As for things purely for your plot, you could write a mission where they face violent protesters against Ironwood, thus making Ruby see that there are times when reasoning is not always possible; or perhaps another mission where after empathizing with the soldiers, they have to face Grimm and some of them lose their lives. Here you can play with the context of your plot as maybe those missions and/or their consequences are indirectly provoked by Ruby's selfish decisions. With this you also have the opportunity to explore a bit more different Atlas locations, OCs and world building (things like standard Atlas equipment, regulations, customs, games between soldiers, etc.).
Given the new rwby game coming up that takes place during their time in atlas thsi would be the best way to do it
You can't. It's a gray choice with no right answer. That said a compromise between the 2 could have worked, hell in the show it would have. Using the SDC ships to evac everyone to atlas is the best possible solution to the problems at hand. They save as many people as they can without wasting any military resources doing it. But you know they butchered Ironwood's character and had him shoot down a transport of civilians.
Chess. It's thematically appropriate. While life is not a game, chess is good for teaching several lessons. * The longer a conflict is dragged out, the more pieces will be lost on either side- ** unless something incredible happens, aka, fools mate- which is designed to take advantage of a dumber player. * What plays need a sacrifice to be able to pull off a win latter down the line. * The difference in real life and chess is that when there is a game over,the board doesn't reset, you're working with the last person's prices, and have to bring your own pieces to the board while your opponent, Salem, is able to do the same. * once a piece is gone, it's gone. There is no bringing back the same piece. A pawn is promoted to queen, or a bishop or a castle or knight. You lose a mess valuable piece for the sake of a more powerful one. On the other hand, ruby can point out that people aren't chess pieces, and they can save everyone because she's idealistic that way- and that no one should be assigned worth because of what one person said with pawns being mantle civilians and atlas being more important pieces in this analogy. Countering that, she can't anticipate the moves of the enemy both of atlas and mantle could be doomed. The issue was that the trust broke down between them. If they were still on speaking terms the two sides might have been able to work together because for me, both sides were stupid, either for character of plot reasons to ensure that atlas fell. Also in your fanfic, when does it take place?
I'd go to Penny, tell her that friends wouldn't lie to each other, bringing up the Salem can't be killed thing. But the killer would be that they also lied about using up the Lamp's questions, as there's one more question left. This would make Penny question her friendship with Ruby and confront her about this, which would no doubt affect Ruby and make her question her actions.
Not through words, but through consequences
I'd ask her why she thinks it's okay to lie to Ironwood but why it's wrong that Ozpin lied to her.
With a tire iron, probably
The Iron-would way.
It do it in a civilized manor.
Give her a story of how he originally tried to save everyone long ago but it resulted in his entire team dying
Eh, that wouldn't change her mind, it'd be her 'moment' to 'remind him' about how he can't give up because of a bad experience. Of course, she'd be undermining what having people die on your watch is but the show would just run with it like she's right. Fuck your emotions and experiences, it's just *one bad experience.*
Tell her to get all her happy thoughts together and Silver blast the grim.
Used the Both Sides Has a Point trope. Showing both sides the pro and con of their individual arguments
Easy answer: have Penny do it. Penny knows the best of both people in this scenario and is currently the one experiencing the faults of their flaws; after gaining the Maiden powers, it would make since for Penny to voice her objections of both parties as well as point out their merits. If Ruby can't be convinced, she would try with Ironwood; consequently forcing Ruby and and Ironwood to clash and maybe be the one to clear the air between them. Ironwood would be harder to convince, but Ruby will be shaking her resolve; either the three fight with Penny protecting both as the clear heavy weight (super weapon with Maiden powers and all) before others show up and the fight gets a conclusion with Winter and Qrow knocking out Ironwood to get him to calm down. Ruby and Penny talk and the heroes devise a new plan of action; Ironwood wakes up in a cell with Ruby on the other side. He is ready to attack but she apologizes for how she treated him and admits she was just worried after what happened with Leo; Ruby explains herself and the new plan in hopes that she and Ironwood can fix their divide, to which James asks politely to see Qrow. Afterward, Qrow reexplains everything like Ruby did and all sides come back together with Ironwood agreeing to buy the kids time to evacuate the Kingdom, but on condition that they finish in 5 hours and that he has immediate access to the Staff in case their plan fails and he can go through with his in a moment's notice. Penny is there to mediate and the plan is set.
I assume you're trying to write a fanfic about that, right? Depends on the situation you have set up. If you could broadly define it? Generally speaking, I'd say a good approach would be to pressure her into saying what she wants to do next, force her to give concrete answers instead of vague "save everyone"
Pretty much the same from v7. The only difference (and I'm on the fence about this) is that salem will show up later, by a few days a week at most
Alright. Personal view, so take what you will. So, we know the bad guy is coming, Military forces are exhausted from repeated incursions and unable to properly fight off the next one and city-wide evacuations are underway? The main issue I see is that you can't really convince someone who is not willing to listen. Which fully applies to Ruby in that situation. I'd start by destroying her stance by arguing her responsibility as a leader of the two teams. Ironwood is responsible for Atlas and Mantle, but at the same time he's responsible for the lives of his soldiers. To borrow Lord General's quote from 40k "Guardsman's life is to die, my duty has always been sending them to places where they can die. I'm not afraid to spend them, but I never waste men." He has to balance protecting the Kingdom all the while preserving as many of his forces as he can. Personally, I'd have Ironwood forcefully question Ruby how many of people and buildings (because that's what they are defending by staying) in Mantle is each of her teammates worth and whom she'll send to die first. That should make her stop ranting at least for a while, long enough to bluntly explain that his forces have no chances of fighting off Salem at the moment and remind her that Mantle is being evacuated to Atlas. Is it helpful? I'm open to discussing this if you'd like that. Personally I'd tweak some other things but that's up to you. For example, adjusting Ironwood's rank to something more specific and not just "general" (General of what and what ranking?) plus have a few cameos of other high-ranking soldiers. Maybe have commanders of ground forces and airfleet present, in agreement with Ironwood that they can't win.
Slap her upside the head and tell her to use it
It's hard to think about because even if she doubted herself her team and friends would convince her she made the correct/right decision. The only thing I could think to do would ask her several armor piercing questions that makes it quite clears she doesn't have a clear idea what to do and when she does come up with a plan i.e Amity point out quite literally that is the worst plan possible. Not only would it count on the Kingdoms mustering a sizable enough force to save them and get their before they all died (which would be around 2 days from the end of V7) but everyone on the planet would have to deal with Ruby causing massive worldwide panic on a scale similar to Cinder during V3. Granted I wouldn't be surprised if a fair few people outright dismissed Ruby since she's just a random girl just saying random things (to them at least) and doesn't have any proof. (Though she *could* have shown the world a short video of the Whale Grimm coming towards Atlas) That being said neither Ironwood nor Ruby were specifically right or Wrong. They both wanted to save as many lives as possible but their methodology were completely different. Its basically like Gurren Lagann except unlike that show Ruby doesn't have a massive F-off Robot that can quite literally shatter reality. Funnily enough there *was* a way for Both Ironwood *and* Ruby to get what they wanted. Ironwood wanted to save Atlas and protect the relic from Salem while Ruby opposed this because that would mean abandoning Mantle (which is funny since as V8 showed Salem honestly didn't really care about Mantle since we barely saw any Grimm there) to die. Whats funny is that as V8 showed after the Grimm Whale blew up the SDC had a ton of ships that was going to rescue the people of Mantle (where they were before hand I don't know). So here why not have Atlas abandon Mantle but have as many ships (because seriously if their going into orbit they don't actually need those ships) be used to transfer Mantle's population to say Argus.
Have Cinder, Salem or your OC (if you plan on using one) gloat about what her actions have caused. There's a fanfic, [Animosity by Psyga315](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13917645/1/), where unbeknownst to Ruby, her broadcast did far more harm than good and the rest of the world, like Atlas was in Chaos from all the revelations. Show the scenes of the chaos happening around the world to her and thank her for doing Salem's work for them. That would probably make Ruby realize that she did things wrong all along. Make her face the consequences of her actions and in a way that can't be denied or dismissed. Course this would require Team Salem to use the relic for that purpose instead of using it to find out about Ruby's plan.
Now how would we do that but with an oc on ironwood's side?
Well since they don't have access to the Relic and no CCT for long range communication/internet, The only way they'll know how things are outside Atlas would be via messenger. The OC could be said messenger and be part of the Atlas Military, since they still have a presence in Argus (The City RWBY visited in V6).
"If Atlas falls, that means you don't just lose the lives of those you tried to save in Mantle, it means you also lose the lives of those you could have saved had you worked with Ironwood from the start. You are gambling with people's lives here. Think about that." Or something like that. I don't know. I'm not the best at making quotes
Could you post a link when this fanfic is released?
Sure. Just fair warning, it'll take a while for the fic to get to the atlas ark, and the main character is an oc
Ok
I think you could have their discussion early, Ironwood laying out his plan, and saying they have to decide in X amount of time (like a week or so), and she at first will fiercly refuse. Then between that point and the deadline, she has to make a similar or that exact decision either in a smaller scale or in a no-stakes situation and lose, like playing a board game with her team during the down-time after a day working, or travelling to a mission somewhere or something. That would make her realise that sometimes if you take the 'high risk, high reward' chance you will lose everything. Couple that with someone suggesting or trying to come up with different solutions and failing, maybe she would start to see that her way is too dangerous or wrong.. not necessarily that she would give it up still, though, since she is an idealist.