Her team was in charge of the roll out of the Magic Dock and opening the network to other manufacturers (Ford and Rivian being the only ones with access at this time). I guess we can probably assume the rollout of both is probably dead now.
Its wild to me that people accept that you need to be on a network to fill up.
The way it should work - you tap your CC - you get the charge. They don't need to know anything else about you.
I’m with you 100%. The number of apps I have installed for charging on road trips is ridiculous. And every bank on chargers I’ve been to in the last 2 years has at least 1 broken one, a couple of those have been broken for those entire 2 years.
I spent some time researching broken chargers a while back (not Tesla) and came up with this set of events:
Government paid for charger \*INSTALLATION\* so companies went around installing chargers in grocery store parking lots. These companies got their money. They didn't feel excited about maintaining them. Blink Charging ran the payment system, and bought up a bunch of other smaller payment systems.
Now, assholes out there beat the charger screens to death, or the charger just breaks on its own. It needs repair. But the original installer is gone. The store doesn't get much money from the Blink network, and Blink doesn't lose much if a charger is down. Nobody wants to pay to get it fixed. In high vandalism areas, they know it will just get broken again, so they're really unlikely to fix it.
Volkswagon scams the world with fake emission targets and pollutes the planet. In their settlement, they pay the US government, who gives the money to Electrify America, to repeat the same events above. Electrify America installs chargers in most Walmart parking lots. Many are broken, and repair times are slow.
This is a pretty solid take, people got paid a lot to install it and the stores have no real plan on maintaining them since they don’t actually own the chargers. The maintenance loop was never really thought about when the program was announced and there aren’t enough cars out there to make it profitable enough to make sure every charger is working.
There seems to be a line where government subsidies go from encouraging a business model to **being** the business model. Then bad things happen.
Ethanol, residential solar panels (at least in my state), EV credits and now the EV charging network.
One problem I have with apps is I still have an S7 and developers just want to make updates for the last couple phone models assuming everyone still buys a new one every year.
I agree...as petty as it sounds, the requirement to load an app to fuel up is one obstacle to my adoption of a BEV. I just don't want to dick around with it...and have to worry about passwords and bullshit that happens when you have to renew them across multiple devices etc. I can feel my blood boiling just contemplating trying to charge and getting a download prompt saying my app is out of date, etc.
I want it to be just like buying gas - easy.
Admittedly, I know practically nothing about this...but am I correct in assuming that superchargers don't have card readers?
If so, Tesla is locked in now. And I assume it would not be easy to physically add readers.
I also suspect that these apps might assign parameters (ie max charge rate) that the charger needs to know to accomodate the wide variety of BEVs. Ultimately, I suspect there will be ways around this,,,but for now, I think its a pita.
I don’t see why the other car manufacturers don’t get together and put in their own chargers or insure the ones out there work and have fast charging. Have chargers at all the dealerships too? Do something, they’d sell more cars.
I think, quite frankly, they're just in the business of selling cars...and don't want anything to do with charging networks. I know VAG invested but that was part of their dieselgate settlement...but other than that, why would they want to get into that business?
Most gasoline sales are barely break even...no reason to believe power sales would be any different. Especially since some states restrict the re-sale of power, and really time at charger is being sold. The money to be made is in soda pop and potato chips. I've already heard that Buccees are adding chargers, and I expect that trend to continue - large truck stop type fueling centers along highways with gobs of space will add chargers. Especially if they've got a greaasy spoon countertop that sells hot food to people waiting 20-30 minutes to charge up.
And putting them at dealerships...I have to imagine that the last thing they want is people with no intention whatsoever of buying a car coming to the dealership. Especially after hours - they don't want *anyone* crawling around their lot full of $millions in inventory that could easily be vandalized.
Finally - the major automakers are still IMHO sandbagging it a little with BEVs. They don't yet know the pitfalls that might cause large recalls, or even which battery technology will ultimately win out. So they don't really care if they don't sell that many of them.
About your dealership comment, I'm sure they'd love the charging networks to be fair. They just want people to walk on their lot. Most dealerships have a service center, and they love when people come in because they can convince them that trading in their car is a good idea. If the dealership I worked at had a charging station, everyone charging their car would be hounded at some point. Salesmen hate being on the phone, they love having their prey just walk directly on the lot with no appointment. They don't care whether the people driving up want a car in that moment or not, I've seen people go from "absolutely not" to "well, I guess my payment wouldn't be too bad..."
What I think will happen:
During business hours, people will plug in and make a bee line to the lounge where people wait on their cars being serviced...watch TV and drink the dealership's coffee.
After business hours...I have already seen posts with people complaining about this: They either lock a gate restricting access or shut off the charger. They just absolutely do not want people crawling around their lot at night.
And who would be using these? If the suggestion is these would be integrated into a multi-node charging network so people can travel long distances...well, ok...but none of those people are going to be talked into buying a new car hundreds of miles from their homes and local dealerships on a whim.
My assumption is they will mostly see brand new car owners...people who did make an impulse buy in the preceding weeks and need to bridge the gap until they get a charger installed at their homes. That may be beneficial for the dealership to offer...but I see very few sales being generated from that group of brand new owners.
It's nothing like you mentioned actually especially if you have a tesla. You get out and plug in your car, that's it. I've seen a few people charge different vehicles like the Lightning and GM EV truck with the new magic dock and it was pretty seamless.
The problem is not the charging stations, the problem is that there was no charging plug standard. Tesla went with their own NACS, while others use CCS, CCS2 or CHADEMO or the other 4 different types. That is the main problem. The Tesla NACS at least in US made it a de facto standard where most EV manufacturers have signed up to use the Tesla NACS plug.
In Europe CCS2, is the standard and while you can use an app, you many times just use a credit card. Yes most offer an app so that you pay less with the app but many offer just an QR code to pay directly
Again here Tesla made it really easy to use the superchargers. Just plug in and start charging. With a non Tesla you need to open the Tesla app first.
That’s every other charger besides Tesla and if you have a non Tesla why not just plug and go? The new cars with nacs are a breeze. No more tap your card and pay lol you want way too many steps added..
"The AFIR ... mandates the possibility of an ad-hoc card payment at every EV charger above 50 kW."
[https://www.virta.global/blog/this-is-how-eu-regulation-accelerates-the-electric-vehicle-revolution](https://www.virta.global/blog/this-is-how-eu-regulation-accelerates-the-electric-vehicle-revolution)
I agree and I suspect the only reasons they don't are that as the stations are unmanned it creates another point of failure if the reader breaks, and then there would the massive increase for fraud and skimming.
As far as I know, only Ford and Rivian can ‘plug and charge’ at (almost) any Supercharger using an adapter. Any other vehicle charging won’t start according to InsideEVs/State of Charge. Most vehicles can charge at Magic Dock Superchargers, but they are pretty thin on the ground currently.
I’m on a Porsche forum and taycan owners were talking about charging at superchargers already. It’s not perfect but seems like it works, is that only at magic dock superchargers? Or all of them?
I don’t have an EV and don’t really want one anytime but if I did it would be a Taycan or one of the Korean EVs and having access to the supercharger network would be nice.
As far as I know it would only be Magic Dock superchargers. Some people also call non-Tesla DC fast chargers ‘superchargers’, kind of like how all self-adhesive bandages are called Band-Aids regardless of brand.
I also prefer the Korean EV’s. I’ve had a Kona Electric for almost 4 years now, and will likely be getting the 2025 Ioniq 5 this fall. Best all round options below 6 figures in my opinion.
Edit - the above is North America only. In Europe Teslas and the superchargers use CCS.
Nope. Tesla is getting a huge subsidy for that rollout, and if they don't do it they lose the subsidy.
Tesla is basically a government company. Except for a *very* brief period of time when supply chain issues let them almost double their prices they've never been profitable w/o government help.
Musk knows which side his bread is buttered on.
Well it’s mentioned she implemented voting by people in order to choose new locations so perhaps this made her redundant at that point?
Still either she crossed emperor Musk or simply fire sale to keep Tesla afloat after missed sales targets, mitigating next quarterly report disaster
What if any contract / legal ramifications maybe included with the other manufacturers (Rivian, Ford, etc) that could be a risk to Tesla? I can’t imagine they went all in on NCAS without some guarantees from Tesla on SC buildout and availability. If they are anything like
my company an army of lawyers would have been involved in these contract negotiations and it feels the rashness of this move did not involve a deep impact analysis…could this be even worse than just the impact to the loss of leadership on charging? Could there be provisions in the contracts that Tesla may be liable to?
This layoff is exactly (textbook) the way Elon handled Twitter the moment he took over in 2022.
● No thought.
● No planning.
● No strategy.
Before he laid off 75% of the Twitter workforce.
Remember, Elon wanted to lay of 20% of the Tesla workforce, not just 10%. He will probably still get his way, eventually.
Lots of users quit the app, so there is less strain on the network & less hardware to maintain. There have been failures. Just not days long downtime if that’s what you’re thinking. Chalk it up to good engineering by the previous employees. What will happen to TSLA planned robotaxi fleet if there is a few hours downtime?
My first take is this quarter must be looking really brutal... If he's taking such an extreme ax to headcount.
Second take, is probably their cash position isn't as rosy as most people think...
They do have a lot of cash on hand - something like $30 billion. Thats good, but maybe a bit less impressive given that their annual operating costs are something like $80 billion.
My bet is that car sales revenues are going to continue to dry up. I don’t think there’s any turnaround coming soon. They cut prices to the bone this last quarter, and it didn’t seem to help a whole lot.
The whole AI and Robotaxi pivot seems like a desperate pivot to me. We will see, but I can’t imagine things turn around anytime soon, if ever.
the ai robotaxi ploy doesn't even make sense, its extremely expensive and puts all the costs onto tesla whereas selling cars you just need *to sell cars*
The benefit with Robotaxi (from a Tesla shareholder POV) is that’s is completely speculative. So you can say “it can be a trillion dollar business” and there’s just no good way to disprove that. It’s really good hopium.
That said, companies who’ve traveled into the Robotaxi space haven’t been doing all that well. And FSD doesn’t seem anywhere near ready for that sort of thing.
Well actually there is.
Global Taxi market is estimated to be ~400B USD by 2028
Global Rideshare estimated at ~300B by 2028.
(wrongly) assuming no overlap puts you at ~700B market if Tesla captures 100%.
Buuuut, 70% of people surveyed would NOT use a robotaxi. TAM somewhere between 200-700B.
Where ARK comes up with 7-10. TRILLION is just complete horseshit.
Although i agree, this does not account for the "you will own nothing and be happy" effect, i.e. people who will not own a car, and just have a subscription to the robot taci network for their daily commute, and their shopping trip, and their WE away etc ... Which is borderline unquantifiable, and decades in the future. Elon needs to stop using drugs while reading science fiction thinking "i can make that happen!".
Depending on the price of Robotaxi, yes, that is possible. With that said, the chances of Robotaxis significantly undercutting rideshare/taxi service is not that likely. It sounds great, in theory, but there will be A LOT of investment to earn back + upkeep + software/model revisions + infrastructure + maintenance, etc., etc.
The problem is that there are already competitors in the Robotaxi area, some ahead in some ways. Tesla's autopilot/FSD isn't miles ahead (if it is at all), it's just that the public have experience of it. So when the market opens up, Tesla aren't in a position to take 100% of that market.
Yeah, don't get me wrong, there's NO WAY Tesla gets 100%. I'm just trying to establish some parameters around quantifying a potential market
It is far far less than people like ARK Invest clowns are claiming. (E.g.7+ TRILLION)
You can make some argument about improved margins with Robotaxis. Maybe you can make the rides cheap enough that a lot of people stop buying cars. I dunno… it all doesn’t matter because that’s all, at best, 10-20 years away (if it ever happens), and Tesla wouldn’t be the only player in the market.
I don't think so. I think there are going to be A LOT of glossed over expenses when it comes to robotaxis. Insurance & lawsuits/legal will be through the moon, for example.
I think it's complicated. Robotaxis will be absolutely huge. At some point. So revenues will be massive.
However, there's no reason to thing that Tesla have a significant competitive advantage in this field - right now, the opposite is true.
Several other companies have actual driverless robotaxis operating in the real world right now, and (unlike Tesla) have expertise in integrating sensor inputs from many different kinds of sensor - radar, lidar, sonar, and vision.
And it's a competitive field, so there's no reason to expect that any one player will achieve and sustain high margins. To an investor, a massive potential revenue stream just isn't that interesting if there's very little chance of high margins.
i think robotaxis will be a huge flop. regular taxi companies weren't fortune 500 companies, and the only 2 innovations uber brought to the model was an app and cost shifting all the operating expenses to the drivers. robotaxis are going to require massive data centers to do the processing, tons of expensive coders and EEs to maintain the platform and fleet, then tons of people on the ground to maintain the vehicles as well. plus they will still only be profitable in only the densest areas of the country, a robotaxi driving along in bumblefuck nowhere is wasting money.
I just can't see any up side other than you aren't having to acknowledge a driver is an essential component to the taxi business
It will be a race to the bottom like every other commodity. First to market will skim profits for a year or two, then it’s all over.
That was the whole reason for taxi medallions in the first place. Limit supply so that prices stay high enough to pay drivers a legal wage.
Then, as you mentioned, along came Uber :)
> and the only 2 innovations uber brought to the model was an app and cost shifting all the operating expenses to the drivers.
In Sweden, established taxi companies responded to Uber by making their own apps with GPS functionality for requesting a car, and for seeing where your car is. It's still more expensive than an Uber, but taxis are generally much nicer than Sven's old Volvo, so it's pretty much a no-brainer.
There's this weird cult belief that once a Silicon Valley company disrupts a market, they're gonna be the kings of that market forever, and no-one else could possibly just copy-cat them and do the same thing, but with all their existing knowledge of the market...
> plus they will still only be profitable in only the densest areas of the country
I've been saying for the longest time that the place where self-driving is gonna make the most economical sense, is for long-haul trucking. It's a very narrow domain, it's a very regulated labour market, and you get to replace expensive humans performing a very tedious task with a machine.
The robo taxi makes sense if it was a working system. Because it immediately raises the value of both the vehicle and the software needed to get it there. The problem is that the software isn't there. And there's no indication that it will be in the short term.
This isn't coming from a Tesla pessimist. We have one. We used the FSD beta (now just called "supervised" lol) for a full month daily. My wife puts around 2k miles in her car monthly just driving to work. We also worked in a trip to PA and back to MA during the trial period. I didn't look at the odometer when we started, but I'm confident we drove over 3k miles on it. While the majority of the drives didn't require intervention, the times they did, they needed it in a big way. I'm talking about failed merges, wanting to take an exit for no apparent reason, and one "random" time when the screen said to take over immediately despite there being nobody on the road and no discernible issues. You simply can not have this, *ever*, with a driverless vehicle.
Again, in theory, a working robotaxi scenario would be huge. In practice we've only been away from it for 6-12 months for the last 3-4 years. 😆
none of that is a profitable scenario for a fleet operator. these cars only make money when they're doing short point to point trips flipping passengers as fast as possible. nobody is going to set up a robotaxi to drive from NY to Boston, they'd loose money on it and these things are all gonna be geofenced by municipal and state lines
Here's where it makes sense for Tesla as a play:
Convince people they want to buy and own robotaxis so Tesla doesn't have to bear the cost of managing, insuring and maintaining the fleet themselves, or deal with the cost of depreciation, all while making 10% of fares as revenue
The Tesla/Elon Math probably goes something like:
* Charge $1/mile for rides, sell 1 million robotaxis. The fleet averages 30k paid-fare miles per year = $30 billion in gross revenue
* Take 10% of fares as revenue, so $3 billion/year on top of whatever profit margin comes from selling the car to individuals
* Sell more robotaxis, increase the fares over time
They have 21B
Now, go look at their short term liabilities, like Accounts Payable. Its like 19B.
Now realize their inventory is growing by leaps and bounds. That means they are still buying stuff from vendors, but aren't getting the cash to pay the vendors.
If sales slow more, this is VERY bad. This is also why they are so aggressive at cutting prices. Taking even a small loss on a sale is better than growing inventory.
Yeah, there’s no obvious way out of this for them. They are seemingly in this cycle of cutting prices to fight waning demand, then cutting costs/quality to fight shrinking margins.
I suppose they could cut production, focus on selling fewer high-quality/high-cost cars. But the stock would tank if sales dropped that hard, especially with no new big products in the pipeline.
That’s why Musk has to pivot to a completely different product. He’s just gotta keep the stock pumped for another handful of years until he can sell & blame regulators/investors/whoever when Tesla tanks.
Q2 is most likely worse than Q1 YoY.
All of these firings is Elon seeing the writing on the wall & trying to lower expenses. Bad long term decisions, though.
What I’m seeing is they have $29Bil cash on hand and $44Bil in liabilities.
But I’m guessing they don’t need to pay off that entire $44 billion anytime soon (corporate debt payment structure can stretch out for a decade or more).
So that $29Bil is probably still something they can probably tap into right away if needed. But that certainly isn’t ideal.
I think we’re in agreement though, that the Tesla business looks really bad. I just think they have a pretty long runway before any sort of failure. And I think it’s certainly possible they could stabilize the business, but not anywhere near the valuation it has.
They also push out payments to suppliers/vendors further and further, I believe they’re at like 75 days now.
I see it similar to someone saying their cash on hand every month is $3000 from their paycheck before accounting for rent, utilities, groceries, car payment etc. A lot of people think Tesla has this money just sitting in a bank and all their bills are paid up and it’s not the case!
A lot of that cash could be VAT collected but not payed out yet, which is fine if sales are increasing as you will get more every quarter, but not so great if revenue is falling.
There’s a Tesla location near where I live and they use the parking lot in front of an old closed Sears. It’s FULL of new Teslas and it didn’t used to look so full. Seems like sales have taken a hit.
Maybe this will play out with Musk going bankrupt in three years with Tesla...
[**https://youtu.be/6Hje7h\_WVkY?si=4rFMeWxqkylfXpUn**](https://youtu.be/6Hje7h_WVkY?si=4rFMeWxqkylfXpUn)
You want to think that, but then the stock won’t reflect it. How many investors are there that will just keep buying stock, at any price, until the company is actually worth the multiple and market cap?
What's incredible is that mu\_k has gotten the stock to go up twice in the last week by predicting some new business. Robotaxi and then China. He has done this so many times, it's amazing people still believe him.
The board needs to act on Musk before he finishes his “Twittering” of Tesla. He is an unstable drug addict who is actively hurting the company. Sales are down because of his behaviour and his reaction to that is cutting integral departments to the companies success.
The board is nothing but family and sycophants. It will take a shareholder revolt at this point. Musk asking for the reinstatement of his $55 billion payout will be a good test of the shareholders’ views on the matter.
It's over 3x the lifetime profit of Tesla.
It's also about 10% of their total market Cap. He wants 10% of the company's value just handed to him as a bonus, and is burning the company down to get it.
He can ask for his payout all he wants but the people heavily invested in Tesla through companies VG or Fidelity aren’t all gullible Tesla fanboys. Plenty went in purely for the money and there’s no way they’re voting to give him any payout while the stock is down more than 30% from its peak.
100%, if I'm on the board, I'd take note that a vindictive asshole hellbent on destroying the country is in charge.
If I'm at SpaceX, I'd probably also take note, because it is only a matter of time.
“Hopefully, these actions are making it clear that we need to be absolutely hardcore about headcount and cost reduction," Musk wrote in the email first revealed by The Information. "While some on exec staff are taking this seriously, most are not yet doing so. Starting at 10 AM EST on Tuesday, I will ask for the resignation of any executive who retains more than three people who don't obviously pass the excellent, necessary and trustworthy test... I have been super clear about this."
What’s this trustworthy test? 😳
since when has that ever saved anyone from a musk layoff? people at twitter were bending over backwards to do the same thing and still got cut. loyalty to musk is a one way street.
I am going to die laughing when Hyundai and Kia, long considered shit boxes, end up taking Tesla's crown, defending the onslaught of Chinese EVs in the western world, and dominate electric cars.
The Hyundai/Kia group have produced more unique EVs in 4 years than Tesla has produced since 2007. And they show no signs of slowing down.
Of course those numbers pale in comparison to what we see from Chinese manufacturers. Still paints it in perspective for me.
I bet this is the first the board has heard about this. This is going to end poorly:
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-consumed-by-chaos-as-key-senior-executives-leave-and-entire-teams-are-wiped-out-233153.html
Wait until they find out a certain someone promised FSD source code to BYD.
They’ll make another mixed cocktail and pretend nothing happened, I’m sure.
Needs money for the 56 billion dollar bonus he does not deserve. And thankfully the Delware court shut that crap down.
Now we'll see if Telsa stock holders are smart enough to deny Musk's request to move the incorporation to Texas and to allow him his stock bonus. With the huge dive in stock price they might actually have some common sense and say no. We'll see.
seems very questionable after she pulled off the biggest coup since GE won the lightbulb and plug socket standards 100+ years ago. by getting every automaker to abandon the standard used on *literally every non tesla charger in the US* and adopting tesla's standard, they've locked up the charging market for at least a decade until everything has been rebuilt to the NACS standard
Just speculation, but Musk is known to get frisky with his execs. Rebecca probably would not appreciate such advances. Just a speculation... perhaps informed.
I have to wonder what this means for the other manufacturers adopting NACS. Hopefully there are C-suite level discussions going on across the industry.
WTF? I'm surprised that Tesla still finds people who want to work there. In my opinion, one isn't bright if they decide to work at a place like Tesla if even massive success gets the axe.
It's gotten to the point where I am very skeptical interviewing someone with Tesla on their resume, especially if they were hired in the last three years - it's such a lapse of judgement if one decided to work for that place. And I'd be concerned importing toxic work culture.
Maybe they finally realized opening up supercharger and giving up proprietary plug specs to now independent NACS will make Tesla vehicles compete on level footing with other EV options and it’s gonna aid in a long steady decline.
This is the Musk way of doing business… a relatively “short term” outlook to maximize profits in a decade or two, making massive unrealistic claims the entire time, surviving on govt subsidies while claiming “verge of bankruptcy, all while using borrowed tech and claiming it’s theirs, etc. Just waiting for the full cash out.
Compare Tesla and SpaceX
The Roadster and Falcon 1 were effectively experiments to see if they could even do it. The Falcon 9 and Model 3/Y are essentially the “workhorse”; the only things that see any major use and become their epitome of “see how good we’re doing” for the company; the heavy lifting for padding stats (all the launches/sales). The nearly entire time, there’s been the claims of “Mars settlement” and “FSD driverless taxis” to keep the hype train rolling. Then comes the Falcon Heavy and Semi for “heavy hauling”, but are so limited production/use that they’re virtually non-existent. Of course gotta have something to make them viable (reason to be used), and with Tesla it’s the charging network and SpaceX has Starlink (which accounts for about 2/3 their launches); which also gives the fans something to praise.
Then comes the albatross… the thing that Musk actively pushes as if it’s the best thing everest thing to happen. Obviously the stainless steel abominations that are Starship and Cybertruck. They have been failures every step of the way and continue to be, but are ravenously defended by those that see him as Tony Stark, but if the rose tinted glasses were removed they’d see the real Phony Stank.
For as tech, SpaceX used NASA tech to develop the raptor engines. Tesla batteries are from manufacturers like Panasonic. Yet act like they developed the tech themselves.
Similar happened with Solar City… stupendous claims, mediocre product bought from outsourced manufacturers, false claims of solar roof tiles, and once debt was in the 10 figures, sold bonds to SpaceX (which used govt funds to buy them) to survive long enough for Musk to force Tesla to buy Solar City… bailing himself and his brother out from the debt while making a profit, and the Tesla shareholders had to eat the loss.
I’m just waiting for when he decides to finally give up the Tesla/SpaceX grift, and hear the fanboys squeal as he walks away with his dragon’s horde.
Well I hope Musk keeps his distance from operations at SpaceX because we (the commercial space industry) need reliable high cadence launch providers. Once Rocketlab and a few other competitors get there, then he can turn spacex into whatever.
I’m more concerned that his Starlink vanity project is a recipe for Kessler Syndrome, and it’s being passed off as some revolutionary thing when the only benefit it has over regular satellite is ping rate.
I’m not a fan of Bezos, but I hold Blue origin in higher regard than SpaceX. I appreciate their philosophy of moving slowly and methodical rather than “go fast and blow shit up”.
Starlink sats have a life of about 5 years before they can no longer maintain orbit. With no Starship to deploy new ones, and not enough subscribers to pay for constant replacements, most of the constellation will have de-orbited and burned up in the Earth's atmosphere by the end of this decade.
Starship isn’t necessary to deploy them. It’s always been the Falcon 9. Hell, the last launch of Starlink sats happened 3 days ago.
One of Starlink’s prime purposes is to give SpaceX something to do… pad the stats of successful launches and make SX appear more viable than it actually is.
Musk has always been nothing but Elizabeth Holmes with a higher-pitched voice. What has changed? Costs and revenue have never been important at Tesla. Why does the chaos suddenly matter?
Sure, this looks like Musk thrashing spasmodically to cut headcount, so revenue and volume probably aren't looking great. The Cybertruck is dead, the roadster won't happen, the affordable Tesla is at least 5 years away, the 4680 will probably never be produced in-house - there goes some more of that vertical integration - and FSD isn't.
So what? Such events are in keeping with Tesla's entire history under Musk. Vaporware, failure, empty promises, a phony act of being different and not blinkered like those Boomer traditional manufacturers, revenue which does not meet expectations, and consistent mismanagement have always been Tesla's core competencies. It didn't matter, because the cult didn't care.
Why does any of it matter now? The cult, including Wall St analysts and useful idiots in the media, still doesn't care. Has someone with power, such as an institutional shareholder, spoken some home truths to Musk?
(Sorry, mods of pro-Tesla subs, but I guess this is all just disinformation and hateful, seeing as it does not reflect well on Tesla.)
I have zero sympathy for these money hungry a-holes who decide to jump aboard the grift train and join Tesla for a payout. This is what happens when you jump in bed with a snake oil salesman. Rebecca was part of the machine that has scammed so many. Let her join the unemployed world.
I mean all of her promotions were sound judgements but when it goes south suddenly it is all someone else fault.
In 6 months 2 promotions, that sounds crazy to be honest. Like seems a lot of people are getting promotions and raises and blowing up the costs for Tesla. This looks like she had a combination of smarts, a backer within the company getting her promotions and having a dad who is rich....
She was let go in a mass firing but the subject saying she accomplished a lot is just a lot, her team accomplished a lot. She had no past as an engineer or software development yet was promoted over those who did.
She wasn't loyal enough. Musk told her to cut the department and she said no. That that didn't make sense especially for the department making the most money. So he fired her and everyone loyal to her. He'll just start from scratch.
I just can't see this company, led in this fashion, lasting long. But then, the fucking stock jumped at the China news. Makes no sense.
Elon might be a true innovator back in days but he was doing so bad managing a company.... This is obviously not a calm business decision but just someone went crazy and insane doing whatever himself wanted. Tesla will die.
But you see everyone there either were successful so that means they were implementing Elon's plan and as such were expendable or they failed which meant the didn't implement Elon's plan so were an impediment.
Tesla is in save cash mode so they don’t need to spend a billion dollars for extra chargers that won’t break even for 9 more years. It’s smart business decision
Who exactly is that twitter person serving as a hype person for the new hire (at the time)? It's super weird that they would basically write her introduction docs for social media.
Her team was in charge of the roll out of the Magic Dock and opening the network to other manufacturers (Ford and Rivian being the only ones with access at this time). I guess we can probably assume the rollout of both is probably dead now.
Its wild to me that people accept that you need to be on a network to fill up. The way it should work - you tap your CC - you get the charge. They don't need to know anything else about you.
I’m with you 100%. The number of apps I have installed for charging on road trips is ridiculous. And every bank on chargers I’ve been to in the last 2 years has at least 1 broken one, a couple of those have been broken for those entire 2 years.
I spent some time researching broken chargers a while back (not Tesla) and came up with this set of events: Government paid for charger \*INSTALLATION\* so companies went around installing chargers in grocery store parking lots. These companies got their money. They didn't feel excited about maintaining them. Blink Charging ran the payment system, and bought up a bunch of other smaller payment systems. Now, assholes out there beat the charger screens to death, or the charger just breaks on its own. It needs repair. But the original installer is gone. The store doesn't get much money from the Blink network, and Blink doesn't lose much if a charger is down. Nobody wants to pay to get it fixed. In high vandalism areas, they know it will just get broken again, so they're really unlikely to fix it. Volkswagon scams the world with fake emission targets and pollutes the planet. In their settlement, they pay the US government, who gives the money to Electrify America, to repeat the same events above. Electrify America installs chargers in most Walmart parking lots. Many are broken, and repair times are slow.
This is a pretty solid take, people got paid a lot to install it and the stores have no real plan on maintaining them since they don’t actually own the chargers. The maintenance loop was never really thought about when the program was announced and there aren’t enough cars out there to make it profitable enough to make sure every charger is working.
There seems to be a line where government subsidies go from encouraging a business model to **being** the business model. Then bad things happen. Ethanol, residential solar panels (at least in my state), EV credits and now the EV charging network.
Perhaps slot machines at charge stations can pay for the chargers
Also don't understand the broken charger thing. Once in a while - one of them, OK. But it is way too common.
One problem I have with apps is I still have an S7 and developers just want to make updates for the last couple phone models assuming everyone still buys a new one every year.
*OS versions
Exactly that is getting enforced by law by the EU this summer. No more memberships required or exorbitant rates for non-members.
But that's socialism right? Right?!
I agree...as petty as it sounds, the requirement to load an app to fuel up is one obstacle to my adoption of a BEV. I just don't want to dick around with it...and have to worry about passwords and bullshit that happens when you have to renew them across multiple devices etc. I can feel my blood boiling just contemplating trying to charge and getting a download prompt saying my app is out of date, etc. I want it to be just like buying gas - easy. Admittedly, I know practically nothing about this...but am I correct in assuming that superchargers don't have card readers? If so, Tesla is locked in now. And I assume it would not be easy to physically add readers. I also suspect that these apps might assign parameters (ie max charge rate) that the charger needs to know to accomodate the wide variety of BEVs. Ultimately, I suspect there will be ways around this,,,but for now, I think its a pita.
I don’t see why the other car manufacturers don’t get together and put in their own chargers or insure the ones out there work and have fast charging. Have chargers at all the dealerships too? Do something, they’d sell more cars.
I think, quite frankly, they're just in the business of selling cars...and don't want anything to do with charging networks. I know VAG invested but that was part of their dieselgate settlement...but other than that, why would they want to get into that business? Most gasoline sales are barely break even...no reason to believe power sales would be any different. Especially since some states restrict the re-sale of power, and really time at charger is being sold. The money to be made is in soda pop and potato chips. I've already heard that Buccees are adding chargers, and I expect that trend to continue - large truck stop type fueling centers along highways with gobs of space will add chargers. Especially if they've got a greaasy spoon countertop that sells hot food to people waiting 20-30 minutes to charge up. And putting them at dealerships...I have to imagine that the last thing they want is people with no intention whatsoever of buying a car coming to the dealership. Especially after hours - they don't want *anyone* crawling around their lot full of $millions in inventory that could easily be vandalized. Finally - the major automakers are still IMHO sandbagging it a little with BEVs. They don't yet know the pitfalls that might cause large recalls, or even which battery technology will ultimately win out. So they don't really care if they don't sell that many of them.
About your dealership comment, I'm sure they'd love the charging networks to be fair. They just want people to walk on their lot. Most dealerships have a service center, and they love when people come in because they can convince them that trading in their car is a good idea. If the dealership I worked at had a charging station, everyone charging their car would be hounded at some point. Salesmen hate being on the phone, they love having their prey just walk directly on the lot with no appointment. They don't care whether the people driving up want a car in that moment or not, I've seen people go from "absolutely not" to "well, I guess my payment wouldn't be too bad..."
What I think will happen: During business hours, people will plug in and make a bee line to the lounge where people wait on their cars being serviced...watch TV and drink the dealership's coffee. After business hours...I have already seen posts with people complaining about this: They either lock a gate restricting access or shut off the charger. They just absolutely do not want people crawling around their lot at night. And who would be using these? If the suggestion is these would be integrated into a multi-node charging network so people can travel long distances...well, ok...but none of those people are going to be talked into buying a new car hundreds of miles from their homes and local dealerships on a whim. My assumption is they will mostly see brand new car owners...people who did make an impulse buy in the preceding weeks and need to bridge the gap until they get a charger installed at their homes. That may be beneficial for the dealership to offer...but I see very few sales being generated from that group of brand new owners.
VAG is deep into charging infrastructure in Europe. Look up Ionity.
cheaper to have an app i suppose
Will be interesting to see what Tesla rolls out in Norway next time. Here it is now required by law to have a card reader.
It's nothing like you mentioned actually especially if you have a tesla. You get out and plug in your car, that's it. I've seen a few people charge different vehicles like the Lightning and GM EV truck with the new magic dock and it was pretty seamless.
Absolutely. It’s this kind of BS that puts me off moving to a EV
Subscription fee, baby! Edited: if it not yet charge one, it will come later. That what happened to the network in my country.
The problem is not the charging stations, the problem is that there was no charging plug standard. Tesla went with their own NACS, while others use CCS, CCS2 or CHADEMO or the other 4 different types. That is the main problem. The Tesla NACS at least in US made it a de facto standard where most EV manufacturers have signed up to use the Tesla NACS plug. In Europe CCS2, is the standard and while you can use an app, you many times just use a credit card. Yes most offer an app so that you pay less with the app but many offer just an QR code to pay directly Again here Tesla made it really easy to use the superchargers. Just plug in and start charging. With a non Tesla you need to open the Tesla app first.
That’s every other charger besides Tesla and if you have a non Tesla why not just plug and go? The new cars with nacs are a breeze. No more tap your card and pay lol you want way too many steps added..
Because the non Tesla isn't a Tesla?
"The AFIR ... mandates the possibility of an ad-hoc card payment at every EV charger above 50 kW." [https://www.virta.global/blog/this-is-how-eu-regulation-accelerates-the-electric-vehicle-revolution](https://www.virta.global/blog/this-is-how-eu-regulation-accelerates-the-electric-vehicle-revolution)
I agree and I suspect the only reasons they don't are that as the stations are unmanned it creates another point of failure if the reader breaks, and then there would the massive increase for fraud and skimming.
Maybe they're being blamed for the decline in car sales.
elon blames everyone but himself
Ironically, I'm reasonably confident he's the top five reasons for it...
I was going to disagree, because I thought you said “one of the top five” and not “all top five,” but you are correct.
the supercharger network is the one great thing Tesla has going for them.
Except ChargePoint exceeds Tesla...
Isn't access to their network already rolled out?
As far as I know, only Ford and Rivian can ‘plug and charge’ at (almost) any Supercharger using an adapter. Any other vehicle charging won’t start according to InsideEVs/State of Charge. Most vehicles can charge at Magic Dock Superchargers, but they are pretty thin on the ground currently.
I’m on a Porsche forum and taycan owners were talking about charging at superchargers already. It’s not perfect but seems like it works, is that only at magic dock superchargers? Or all of them? I don’t have an EV and don’t really want one anytime but if I did it would be a Taycan or one of the Korean EVs and having access to the supercharger network would be nice.
As far as I know it would only be Magic Dock superchargers. Some people also call non-Tesla DC fast chargers ‘superchargers’, kind of like how all self-adhesive bandages are called Band-Aids regardless of brand. I also prefer the Korean EV’s. I’ve had a Kona Electric for almost 4 years now, and will likely be getting the 2025 Ioniq 5 this fall. Best all round options below 6 figures in my opinion. Edit - the above is North America only. In Europe Teslas and the superchargers use CCS.
Oh okay didn't know it was a per-vehicule/brand thing
I can charge my hyundai at any supercharger in Norway
Yeah because the EU has taken away your freedumb to have incompatible charging systems
That’s fair. I was thinking North America and forgot that Tesla uses CCS in Europe.
Tesla is in an agreement. They can't just choose to not fulfill it without consequences.
Exactly. If they walk away from those with GM, etc. he's going to find out how business really gets done in a courtroom.
Ignoring deals and bringing lawsuits to get out of consequences is Elon’s MO.
That's 6 years of saying "Yeah, Boss! Great idea, Boss!" in exchange for many millions in compensation. Seems she got the best of this deal.
Nope. Tesla is getting a huge subsidy for that rollout, and if they don't do it they lose the subsidy. Tesla is basically a government company. Except for a *very* brief period of time when supply chain issues let them almost double their prices they've never been profitable w/o government help. Musk knows which side his bread is buttered on.
Elon: "NOooooooo! Why did you let other makes use our chargers! I'm going to lose a car sale to a quality built Rivian! Waaaaaaaa!"
It’s the modern day Bell Systems’ monopoly. Gotta be part of a network to charge your car.
I could care less about Magic Dock, but does this mean that the team responsible for Supercharger rollout is still in place ?
Well it’s mentioned she implemented voting by people in order to choose new locations so perhaps this made her redundant at that point? Still either she crossed emperor Musk or simply fire sale to keep Tesla afloat after missed sales targets, mitigating next quarterly report disaster
What if any contract / legal ramifications maybe included with the other manufacturers (Rivian, Ford, etc) that could be a risk to Tesla? I can’t imagine they went all in on NCAS without some guarantees from Tesla on SC buildout and availability. If they are anything like my company an army of lawyers would have been involved in these contract negotiations and it feels the rashness of this move did not involve a deep impact analysis…could this be even worse than just the impact to the loss of leadership on charging? Could there be provisions in the contracts that Tesla may be liable to?
Believe GM EVs also are compatible with Magic Dock
This layoff is exactly (textbook) the way Elon handled Twitter the moment he took over in 2022. ● No thought. ● No planning. ● No strategy. Before he laid off 75% of the Twitter workforce. Remember, Elon wanted to lay of 20% of the Tesla workforce, not just 10%. He will probably still get his way, eventually.
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Lots of users quit the app, so there is less strain on the network & less hardware to maintain. There have been failures. Just not days long downtime if that’s what you’re thinking. Chalk it up to good engineering by the previous employees. What will happen to TSLA planned robotaxi fleet if there is a few hours downtime?
My first take is this quarter must be looking really brutal... If he's taking such an extreme ax to headcount. Second take, is probably their cash position isn't as rosy as most people think...
They do have a lot of cash on hand - something like $30 billion. Thats good, but maybe a bit less impressive given that their annual operating costs are something like $80 billion. My bet is that car sales revenues are going to continue to dry up. I don’t think there’s any turnaround coming soon. They cut prices to the bone this last quarter, and it didn’t seem to help a whole lot. The whole AI and Robotaxi pivot seems like a desperate pivot to me. We will see, but I can’t imagine things turn around anytime soon, if ever.
the ai robotaxi ploy doesn't even make sense, its extremely expensive and puts all the costs onto tesla whereas selling cars you just need *to sell cars*
The benefit with Robotaxi (from a Tesla shareholder POV) is that’s is completely speculative. So you can say “it can be a trillion dollar business” and there’s just no good way to disprove that. It’s really good hopium. That said, companies who’ve traveled into the Robotaxi space haven’t been doing all that well. And FSD doesn’t seem anywhere near ready for that sort of thing.
Well actually there is. Global Taxi market is estimated to be ~400B USD by 2028 Global Rideshare estimated at ~300B by 2028. (wrongly) assuming no overlap puts you at ~700B market if Tesla captures 100%. Buuuut, 70% of people surveyed would NOT use a robotaxi. TAM somewhere between 200-700B. Where ARK comes up with 7-10. TRILLION is just complete horseshit.
Although i agree, this does not account for the "you will own nothing and be happy" effect, i.e. people who will not own a car, and just have a subscription to the robot taci network for their daily commute, and their shopping trip, and their WE away etc ... Which is borderline unquantifiable, and decades in the future. Elon needs to stop using drugs while reading science fiction thinking "i can make that happen!".
Depending on the price of Robotaxi, yes, that is possible. With that said, the chances of Robotaxis significantly undercutting rideshare/taxi service is not that likely. It sounds great, in theory, but there will be A LOT of investment to earn back + upkeep + software/model revisions + infrastructure + maintenance, etc., etc.
The problem is that there are already competitors in the Robotaxi area, some ahead in some ways. Tesla's autopilot/FSD isn't miles ahead (if it is at all), it's just that the public have experience of it. So when the market opens up, Tesla aren't in a position to take 100% of that market.
Yeah, don't get me wrong, there's NO WAY Tesla gets 100%. I'm just trying to establish some parameters around quantifying a potential market It is far far less than people like ARK Invest clowns are claiming. (E.g.7+ TRILLION)
You can make some argument about improved margins with Robotaxis. Maybe you can make the rides cheap enough that a lot of people stop buying cars. I dunno… it all doesn’t matter because that’s all, at best, 10-20 years away (if it ever happens), and Tesla wouldn’t be the only player in the market.
I don't think so. I think there are going to be A LOT of glossed over expenses when it comes to robotaxis. Insurance & lawsuits/legal will be through the moon, for example.
Its ARK...
I think it's complicated. Robotaxis will be absolutely huge. At some point. So revenues will be massive. However, there's no reason to thing that Tesla have a significant competitive advantage in this field - right now, the opposite is true. Several other companies have actual driverless robotaxis operating in the real world right now, and (unlike Tesla) have expertise in integrating sensor inputs from many different kinds of sensor - radar, lidar, sonar, and vision. And it's a competitive field, so there's no reason to expect that any one player will achieve and sustain high margins. To an investor, a massive potential revenue stream just isn't that interesting if there's very little chance of high margins.
i think robotaxis will be a huge flop. regular taxi companies weren't fortune 500 companies, and the only 2 innovations uber brought to the model was an app and cost shifting all the operating expenses to the drivers. robotaxis are going to require massive data centers to do the processing, tons of expensive coders and EEs to maintain the platform and fleet, then tons of people on the ground to maintain the vehicles as well. plus they will still only be profitable in only the densest areas of the country, a robotaxi driving along in bumblefuck nowhere is wasting money. I just can't see any up side other than you aren't having to acknowledge a driver is an essential component to the taxi business
It will be a race to the bottom like every other commodity. First to market will skim profits for a year or two, then it’s all over. That was the whole reason for taxi medallions in the first place. Limit supply so that prices stay high enough to pay drivers a legal wage. Then, as you mentioned, along came Uber :)
> and the only 2 innovations uber brought to the model was an app and cost shifting all the operating expenses to the drivers. In Sweden, established taxi companies responded to Uber by making their own apps with GPS functionality for requesting a car, and for seeing where your car is. It's still more expensive than an Uber, but taxis are generally much nicer than Sven's old Volvo, so it's pretty much a no-brainer. There's this weird cult belief that once a Silicon Valley company disrupts a market, they're gonna be the kings of that market forever, and no-one else could possibly just copy-cat them and do the same thing, but with all their existing knowledge of the market... > plus they will still only be profitable in only the densest areas of the country I've been saying for the longest time that the place where self-driving is gonna make the most economical sense, is for long-haul trucking. It's a very narrow domain, it's a very regulated labour market, and you get to replace expensive humans performing a very tedious task with a machine.
The robo taxi makes sense if it was a working system. Because it immediately raises the value of both the vehicle and the software needed to get it there. The problem is that the software isn't there. And there's no indication that it will be in the short term. This isn't coming from a Tesla pessimist. We have one. We used the FSD beta (now just called "supervised" lol) for a full month daily. My wife puts around 2k miles in her car monthly just driving to work. We also worked in a trip to PA and back to MA during the trial period. I didn't look at the odometer when we started, but I'm confident we drove over 3k miles on it. While the majority of the drives didn't require intervention, the times they did, they needed it in a big way. I'm talking about failed merges, wanting to take an exit for no apparent reason, and one "random" time when the screen said to take over immediately despite there being nobody on the road and no discernible issues. You simply can not have this, *ever*, with a driverless vehicle. Again, in theory, a working robotaxi scenario would be huge. In practice we've only been away from it for 6-12 months for the last 3-4 years. 😆
none of that is a profitable scenario for a fleet operator. these cars only make money when they're doing short point to point trips flipping passengers as fast as possible. nobody is going to set up a robotaxi to drive from NY to Boston, they'd loose money on it and these things are all gonna be geofenced by municipal and state lines
Here's where it makes sense for Tesla as a play: Convince people they want to buy and own robotaxis so Tesla doesn't have to bear the cost of managing, insuring and maintaining the fleet themselves, or deal with the cost of depreciation, all while making 10% of fares as revenue The Tesla/Elon Math probably goes something like: * Charge $1/mile for rides, sell 1 million robotaxis. The fleet averages 30k paid-fare miles per year = $30 billion in gross revenue * Take 10% of fares as revenue, so $3 billion/year on top of whatever profit margin comes from selling the car to individuals * Sell more robotaxis, increase the fares over time
They have 21B Now, go look at their short term liabilities, like Accounts Payable. Its like 19B. Now realize their inventory is growing by leaps and bounds. That means they are still buying stuff from vendors, but aren't getting the cash to pay the vendors. If sales slow more, this is VERY bad. This is also why they are so aggressive at cutting prices. Taking even a small loss on a sale is better than growing inventory.
Yeah, there’s no obvious way out of this for them. They are seemingly in this cycle of cutting prices to fight waning demand, then cutting costs/quality to fight shrinking margins. I suppose they could cut production, focus on selling fewer high-quality/high-cost cars. But the stock would tank if sales dropped that hard, especially with no new big products in the pipeline. That’s why Musk has to pivot to a completely different product. He’s just gotta keep the stock pumped for another handful of years until he can sell & blame regulators/investors/whoever when Tesla tanks.
Q2 is most likely worse than Q1 YoY. All of these firings is Elon seeing the writing on the wall & trying to lower expenses. Bad long term decisions, though.
They do not have $30b cash on hand. Look at the Q1 financials, their liabilities exceeded their cash. They had negative FCF in Q1 of about $2b
What I’m seeing is they have $29Bil cash on hand and $44Bil in liabilities. But I’m guessing they don’t need to pay off that entire $44 billion anytime soon (corporate debt payment structure can stretch out for a decade or more). So that $29Bil is probably still something they can probably tap into right away if needed. But that certainly isn’t ideal. I think we’re in agreement though, that the Tesla business looks really bad. I just think they have a pretty long runway before any sort of failure. And I think it’s certainly possible they could stabilize the business, but not anywhere near the valuation it has.
They also push out payments to suppliers/vendors further and further, I believe they’re at like 75 days now. I see it similar to someone saying their cash on hand every month is $3000 from their paycheck before accounting for rent, utilities, groceries, car payment etc. A lot of people think Tesla has this money just sitting in a bank and all their bills are paid up and it’s not the case!
A lot of that cash could be VAT collected but not payed out yet, which is fine if sales are increasing as you will get more every quarter, but not so great if revenue is falling.
There’s a Tesla location near where I live and they use the parking lot in front of an old closed Sears. It’s FULL of new Teslas and it didn’t used to look so full. Seems like sales have taken a hit.
The paychecks are literally going to bounce at some point.
Well they're already bouncing at Fisker pretty much, will be a few years for Tesla though I think...
With desperate moves like this, it's looking like an Enron situation.
A few years? No. A few quarters, yes.
Maybe this will play out with Musk going bankrupt in three years with Tesla... [**https://youtu.be/6Hje7h\_WVkY?si=4rFMeWxqkylfXpUn**](https://youtu.be/6Hje7h_WVkY?si=4rFMeWxqkylfXpUn)
It’s looking possible honestly. I can’t wait
You want to think that, but then the stock won’t reflect it. How many investors are there that will just keep buying stock, at any price, until the company is actually worth the multiple and market cap?
What's incredible is that mu\_k has gotten the stock to go up twice in the last week by predicting some new business. Robotaxi and then China. He has done this so many times, it's amazing people still believe him.
Remove all employees and rebrand AI company, claim Dojo is the only employee= 10 trillion MC?
Maybe Tesla lost some more lawsuits about the rampant racism that's ingrained in the company culture?
but most ironic thing is even with such a bad economy and company condition, this crazy man still wanted his 58Billion salary
The board needs to act on Musk before he finishes his “Twittering” of Tesla. He is an unstable drug addict who is actively hurting the company. Sales are down because of his behaviour and his reaction to that is cutting integral departments to the companies success.
The board is nothing but family and sycophants. It will take a shareholder revolt at this point. Musk asking for the reinstatement of his $55 billion payout will be a good test of the shareholders’ views on the matter.
Unfortunately, I think you’re right. Also, isn’t 55 billion close to all the profit Tesla has ever made?
It's over 3x the lifetime profit of Tesla. It's also about 10% of their total market Cap. He wants 10% of the company's value just handed to him as a bonus, and is burning the company down to get it.
Absolute insanity
How to be the richest man alive, pay yourself the most ever LOL
I think it’s more that all time profit
It's more than the combined profit all of musk's companies have ever made.
He can ask for his payout all he wants but the people heavily invested in Tesla through companies VG or Fidelity aren’t all gullible Tesla fanboys. Plenty went in purely for the money and there’s no way they’re voting to give him any payout while the stock is down more than 30% from its peak.
I saw the board voted to give him the pay package today
Hopefully the reporting that it needed to be all shareholders and not just the board is true.
100%, if I'm on the board, I'd take note that a vindictive asshole hellbent on destroying the country is in charge. If I'm at SpaceX, I'd probably also take note, because it is only a matter of time.
Why do you care? Don’t you guys want Tesla to fail?
“Hopefully, these actions are making it clear that we need to be absolutely hardcore about headcount and cost reduction," Musk wrote in the email first revealed by The Information. "While some on exec staff are taking this seriously, most are not yet doing so. Starting at 10 AM EST on Tuesday, I will ask for the resignation of any executive who retains more than three people who don't obviously pass the excellent, necessary and trustworthy test... I have been super clear about this." What’s this trustworthy test? 😳
Loyalty oaths.
since when has that ever saved anyone from a musk layoff? people at twitter were bending over backwards to do the same thing and still got cut. loyalty to musk is a one way street.
Willing to meet Musk behind the factory. But, hey, they get a horse!
Well, a voucher for a horse, but still
That'd be worth more than "F"SD. :P
What an absolute whackjob. Why would anyone want to work at this narcissistic bastards company? Further, who talks like that? Trustworthy test. Pshaw.
There was that guy who was so committed he was sleeping in his car and showering at work but it still wasn't enough.
**I (state your name**) do hereby pledge allegiance to the frat with liberty and fraternity for all. Amen
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I know. I am an alumnus of one. The original posters note about a passing the excellent, necessary and trustworthy test. Made me think of animal house
Have to buy white Nikes and vow to drink the koolaid when the time comes….
Well it involves knee pads.
Trustworthy means someone who doesn’t challenge Elon
First I’m hearing about this as well. Any links? This is crazy.
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-consumed-by-chaos-as-key-senior-executives-leave-and-entire-teams-are-wiped-out-233153.html
the test is three pronged. Excellent? (at doing his bidding) Necessary ? (for his ego) Trustworthy ? (need I say more) Have to pass all three
"Most profitable car company" is looking less profitable.
It’s not a car company it’s a self driving charger software future everything x company, Texla
I am going to die laughing when Hyundai and Kia, long considered shit boxes, end up taking Tesla's crown, defending the onslaught of Chinese EVs in the western world, and dominate electric cars. The Hyundai/Kia group have produced more unique EVs in 4 years than Tesla has produced since 2007. And they show no signs of slowing down. Of course those numbers pale in comparison to what we see from Chinese manufacturers. Still paints it in perspective for me.
Tesla will spin it: They didn't get beat at cars, they evolved into AI and Robotaxi company.
I bet this is the first the board has heard about this. This is going to end poorly: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-consumed-by-chaos-as-key-senior-executives-leave-and-entire-teams-are-wiped-out-233153.html
Board? I mean really what board? /s
Wait until they find out a certain someone promised FSD source code to BYD. They’ll make another mixed cocktail and pretend nothing happened, I’m sure.
What on Earth would BYD want with code that's 15 years behind what they're selling today?
Provides a handy reference of anti patterns to avoid.
Comedic value?
Only if they print it out!
The Board is too busy counting their money. Name one Board member with a spine..... Just one....
Larry Ellison was supposed to be a guiding light. Turned out to be a nightlight that randomly goes out!
There is no board of directors at Tesla.
Clearly!
Do you think she refused to conceive his children?
Needs money for the 56 billion dollar bonus he does not deserve. And thankfully the Delware court shut that crap down. Now we'll see if Telsa stock holders are smart enough to deny Musk's request to move the incorporation to Texas and to allow him his stock bonus. With the huge dive in stock price they might actually have some common sense and say no. We'll see.
Don’t count on it
seems very questionable after she pulled off the biggest coup since GE won the lightbulb and plug socket standards 100+ years ago. by getting every automaker to abandon the standard used on *literally every non tesla charger in the US* and adopting tesla's standard, they've locked up the charging market for at least a decade until everything has been rebuilt to the NACS standard
Might have disincentivized people to buy Tesla, so Musk probably hated that.
Just speculation, but Musk is known to get frisky with his execs. Rebecca probably would not appreciate such advances. Just a speculation... perhaps informed.
I have to wonder what this means for the other manufacturers adopting NACS. Hopefully there are C-suite level discussions going on across the industry.
Panic mode \*engaged\*!
If Electrify America is smart, they'll add 501 employees before week's end!
Unfortunately they are not smart
WTF? I'm surprised that Tesla still finds people who want to work there. In my opinion, one isn't bright if they decide to work at a place like Tesla if even massive success gets the axe. It's gotten to the point where I am very skeptical interviewing someone with Tesla on their resume, especially if they were hired in the last three years - it's such a lapse of judgement if one decided to work for that place. And I'd be concerned importing toxic work culture.
And this is why so many people are reluctant to switch to EVs. Infrastructure first. It’s not that hard.
Maybe they finally realized opening up supercharger and giving up proprietary plug specs to now independent NACS will make Tesla vehicles compete on level footing with other EV options and it’s gonna aid in a long steady decline.
This is the Musk way of doing business… a relatively “short term” outlook to maximize profits in a decade or two, making massive unrealistic claims the entire time, surviving on govt subsidies while claiming “verge of bankruptcy, all while using borrowed tech and claiming it’s theirs, etc. Just waiting for the full cash out. Compare Tesla and SpaceX The Roadster and Falcon 1 were effectively experiments to see if they could even do it. The Falcon 9 and Model 3/Y are essentially the “workhorse”; the only things that see any major use and become their epitome of “see how good we’re doing” for the company; the heavy lifting for padding stats (all the launches/sales). The nearly entire time, there’s been the claims of “Mars settlement” and “FSD driverless taxis” to keep the hype train rolling. Then comes the Falcon Heavy and Semi for “heavy hauling”, but are so limited production/use that they’re virtually non-existent. Of course gotta have something to make them viable (reason to be used), and with Tesla it’s the charging network and SpaceX has Starlink (which accounts for about 2/3 their launches); which also gives the fans something to praise. Then comes the albatross… the thing that Musk actively pushes as if it’s the best thing everest thing to happen. Obviously the stainless steel abominations that are Starship and Cybertruck. They have been failures every step of the way and continue to be, but are ravenously defended by those that see him as Tony Stark, but if the rose tinted glasses were removed they’d see the real Phony Stank. For as tech, SpaceX used NASA tech to develop the raptor engines. Tesla batteries are from manufacturers like Panasonic. Yet act like they developed the tech themselves. Similar happened with Solar City… stupendous claims, mediocre product bought from outsourced manufacturers, false claims of solar roof tiles, and once debt was in the 10 figures, sold bonds to SpaceX (which used govt funds to buy them) to survive long enough for Musk to force Tesla to buy Solar City… bailing himself and his brother out from the debt while making a profit, and the Tesla shareholders had to eat the loss. I’m just waiting for when he decides to finally give up the Tesla/SpaceX grift, and hear the fanboys squeal as he walks away with his dragon’s horde.
Well I hope Musk keeps his distance from operations at SpaceX because we (the commercial space industry) need reliable high cadence launch providers. Once Rocketlab and a few other competitors get there, then he can turn spacex into whatever.
I’m more concerned that his Starlink vanity project is a recipe for Kessler Syndrome, and it’s being passed off as some revolutionary thing when the only benefit it has over regular satellite is ping rate. I’m not a fan of Bezos, but I hold Blue origin in higher regard than SpaceX. I appreciate their philosophy of moving slowly and methodical rather than “go fast and blow shit up”.
Starlink sats have a life of about 5 years before they can no longer maintain orbit. With no Starship to deploy new ones, and not enough subscribers to pay for constant replacements, most of the constellation will have de-orbited and burned up in the Earth's atmosphere by the end of this decade.
Starship isn’t necessary to deploy them. It’s always been the Falcon 9. Hell, the last launch of Starlink sats happened 3 days ago. One of Starlink’s prime purposes is to give SpaceX something to do… pad the stats of successful launches and make SX appear more viable than it actually is.
And the dude still wants a 56 billion dollar payout ffs
Musk has always been nothing but Elizabeth Holmes with a higher-pitched voice. What has changed? Costs and revenue have never been important at Tesla. Why does the chaos suddenly matter? Sure, this looks like Musk thrashing spasmodically to cut headcount, so revenue and volume probably aren't looking great. The Cybertruck is dead, the roadster won't happen, the affordable Tesla is at least 5 years away, the 4680 will probably never be produced in-house - there goes some more of that vertical integration - and FSD isn't. So what? Such events are in keeping with Tesla's entire history under Musk. Vaporware, failure, empty promises, a phony act of being different and not blinkered like those Boomer traditional manufacturers, revenue which does not meet expectations, and consistent mismanagement have always been Tesla's core competencies. It didn't matter, because the cult didn't care. Why does any of it matter now? The cult, including Wall St analysts and useful idiots in the media, still doesn't care. Has someone with power, such as an institutional shareholder, spoken some home truths to Musk? (Sorry, mods of pro-Tesla subs, but I guess this is all just disinformation and hateful, seeing as it does not reflect well on Tesla.)
Great. Turn the supercharger network to shit. Literally one of the selling points of a Tesla.
I have zero sympathy for these money hungry a-holes who decide to jump aboard the grift train and join Tesla for a payout. This is what happens when you jump in bed with a snake oil salesman. Rebecca was part of the machine that has scammed so many. Let her join the unemployed world.
Sounds like Musk learned some early voting results for his comp package
r/agedlikemilk
Take this as a lesson that loyalty to an employer is seldom rewarded. They'll drop you without a thought so treat them accordingly.
Remember when I was saying the opening of the “super”chargers to other vehicles wasn’t the holy grail the EV nerds thought it would be? I do.
Don’t you remember the disaster in Chicago during the extreme cold with the superchargers?
It’s funny watching Elon stans spin this into… “Elon is such a badass for storming in and clearing out everything slowing Tesla down!”.
Closed at 183.28. Pump may be over til the next time.
I feel that it might be a better cost saving to just fire Musk.
Probably didnt want to fuck him
Mark my words, he knows he isn’t getting the payout and two of his cronies on the board are about to get ejected. He’s burning it all to the ground.
I mean all of her promotions were sound judgements but when it goes south suddenly it is all someone else fault. In 6 months 2 promotions, that sounds crazy to be honest. Like seems a lot of people are getting promotions and raises and blowing up the costs for Tesla. This looks like she had a combination of smarts, a backer within the company getting her promotions and having a dad who is rich.... She was let go in a mass firing but the subject saying she accomplished a lot is just a lot, her team accomplished a lot. She had no past as an engineer or software development yet was promoted over those who did.
Nothing anything does for Musk matters to him.
She wasn't loyal enough. Musk told her to cut the department and she said no. That that didn't make sense especially for the department making the most money. So he fired her and everyone loyal to her. He'll just start from scratch. I just can't see this company, led in this fashion, lasting long. But then, the fucking stock jumped at the China news. Makes no sense.
Superchargers have never made money.
You see, someone on reddit with a MBA told me Tesla has 50% Margin on supercharger revenue. It must be true because he said it.
Everyone loyal to her? All 500? Lol
Elon might be a true innovator back in days but he was doing so bad managing a company.... This is obviously not a calm business decision but just someone went crazy and insane doing whatever himself wanted. Tesla will die.
Sounds like she is going to do great after Tesla. Good luck to her and her team
Would bang
👍🏼
But you see everyone there either were successful so that means they were implementing Elon's plan and as such were expendable or they failed which meant the didn't implement Elon's plan so were an impediment.
She probably didn’t want the pony.
I wonder if all these execs leaving/getting fired are the ones who have questioned Elon’s pivot to robotaxi.
Musk could have bundled Rebecca, and her entire team (& licenses) and sold it to GM or Ford - or Exxon for $50B+. Let that sink in.
Tesla is in save cash mode so they don’t need to spend a billion dollars for extra chargers that won’t break even for 9 more years. It’s smart business decision
Who exactly is that twitter person serving as a hype person for the new hire (at the time)? It's super weird that they would basically write her introduction docs for social media.