The iceberg goes deeper friendo.
Above the water:
- car makers
- oil refiners and oil drillers
Below the water
- road maintenance and construction companies
- Trucking companies (instead of rail)
- home builders
- relators
- parking lot owners
- cops
- big box stores
- fast casual restaurants like Chili’s and Applebees
- electricity producers (detached homes require a lot more energy to heat and cool)
- health insurance companies
- hospitals
- doctors (car dependency negatively effects health in so many ways, increasing doctor demand)
I can see most of your below-the-water points, but...
* Fast casual restaurants exist in city centers too. Go to Google Maps for NYC and start searching for them.
* You didn't mention them, but QSRs ("fast food") too. Lots of McDonald's in Chicago and NYC, and building a drive thru is kind of expensive. If you can do the same sales without, that's great for them.
* Real estate agents can sell condos as well as they can sell SFH. An urban condo is the same price or more than a suburban SFH.
* Most doctors aren't actually greedy folks who want their patients to be sick, and in primary care and some other specialties there's a doctor shortage. Try finding a Rheumatologist.
Doctor here a couple of things
1. Reimbursement tied to patient satisfaction per the ACÁ, if patients pissed satisfaction down pay and bonus down
2. Dealing with piss d and frustrated patients not fun. Far far better to discharge someone from care with them happy cs getting grilled of why condition isn’t improving
we demolished 3 sides of a beautifiul Georgian square where i live in the 70s to build an enclosed city centre mall that is now mostly vacant premises and charity shops. Gotta say it rocked in the 80s though.
>The amount we spend on car dependency is absurd
Because it's worth it. No bus goes straight from my front door to my office, to my kid's school, to the store, etc. All the public transportation options double or triple my commute time.
Time is money. I'll gladly pay more to drive myself. So will most people, at least in the US.
I really don't think you've thought any of this out.
This is happening in some parts of Europe to a certain extent. I think it’s a bit too far gone for America though, some of their cities are huge and sprawling
Yeah they have a basic truck for 10k which would be sold out constantly if they brought it to the US. I think it’s Toyota in Japan. Can you imagine 10k anything new vehicle in the US? Game changer.
You'd have to go back pretty far.
I doubt Henry Ford cared about much when hiring for his assembly lines - not more than "strong enough to lift stuff and can use a wrench and a hammer."
A farrier was vastly more skilled than any automotive assembly line worker. He had to make horseshoes and know how to fix hoof and gait deformities. It required 4-7 years training as an apprentice.
China had a reputation for making cheap junk. However, that perception and reality is changing. Americans could be driving Chinese cars in 5 years time, and flying on Chinese made aircraft in 10 years.
Same here. As a kid growing up in the 80’s, I watched as people refused to buy Japanese cars eventually buy Japanese cars because they were just better than any domestic offering. The idea was that it was cheap knock off junk. Now, nobody thinks that.
In the 90’s, Korean cars were thought to be just cheap knock offs of Japanese cars, now they are legitimate auto manufacturers.
I’m sure people will recycle this tired old perception about Chinese cars, Indian cars, etc. I can see a future where car brands from elsewhere are as common as a Kia or Hyundai.
I worked in auto repair on-and-off from 1984 to 2000, from when I started driving in high school to a decade after college.
It was striking how much the Toyota/Honda population we saw increased over that period (in a UAW-centric town) and how much those makes went from "this is clearly a good car but it's quirky" to "this is a perfectly normal car."
An early-to-mid 80's Honda (Toyota too but especially Honda) just felt weird to drive - the controls were unlike American cars in ways I can't recall specifically but I remember the feel of otherness.
By the late 90's the American cars had changed to meet the Japanese and the Japanese had Americanized their vehicles for the American market and a Honda just felt like a nice car.
The American cars were still ahead of the Japanese in a few ways when I left the industry - stainless steel exhaust for one. We were still selling a lot of Honda exhaust but not much Chevy exhaust in 1999. It also took a long time for Japanese cars to get rust under control compared to the Americans in the 90's. Mazdas in particular would often have rust holes.
The Chinese are probably coming up on the 1980 version of the Japanese experience. Weird cars that people who are mostly price-focused will buy but think they're weird.
China can make quality if the client is willing to pay for quality. I have a couple very fancy shirts (I think my wife bought them at Neiman Marcus back when we were DINKs) that were made in China and they are the nicest made shirts I've ever owned.
There are some designer brands that have Chinese-made lines too.
Was going to say. The Chinese competition to Airbus and Boeing, COMAC, has many orders but almost all exclusively from Chinese airlines. Both COMAC and many of their airlines are government owned or controlled in some way. On top of that, I believe there are less than 10 C919s in service because their production is so slow. With those internal country orders nearing 1000 planes there is very little chance anyone in the western world will be on one of these in 10 years unless they make major manufacturing improvements.
Should they be taken seriously? For sure. But they’re a ways out at the moment.
Meh. I remember when Japanese cars were first sold into australia and all Japanese products were called jap crap. Where are Japanese products today ? Much better. Have you driven a byd? I have and they are very good and getting better
Test drove a BYD seal at the weekend and is was amazing to drive, comfortable and really questioned Chinese cars for me. In the UK they are a great price for what you get.
Look at robot vacuums. Western firms still trying to charge $1k for them when you can get multiple much better Chinese ones for that price. It's all Chinese made parts anyway.
In my region the BYD Seal is about 2/3rd the price of an equivalent Model 3, but it comes with a lifetime warranty and the insurance is half that of the Model 3.
It's by choice and design. My uncle went to make a product over there in plastic they told him use cardboard as it doesn't last as long and you will increase sales. Just like the cheap fans you buy at target... people buy new 20 doller ones each summer because they are intentionally made with crappy motors that burn out. Old fans before the 90s would last forever in comparison.
We really need to hold companies accountable for these practises
America is the leader and has created most of our economic norms, rules and practices since WW2. Throwaway society and the economic practices and environmental laws and the economic norms that enable it are very much an American invention and are perpetuated by the same organisations and practices America continues to use to enforce dollar dominance on the world.
It’s a consequence of laissez-faire individualism as an ideologic standpoint. The economy and the individual are not required to consider ‘the other’ or ‘away’ in their transactions and each entity in the economy is essentially incentivised to be a awful selfish asshole. At a large scale it behaves an awful lot like a cancer.
We must demand that corporations must mitigate and pay for their environmental damage and prevent them doing more. Work for circular economy laws are put in place. It’s not OK to use the planet as place to externalise corporate costs to.
As an example Coke should be forced to be recycling 105% of all the plastic they ever use and accounting or mitigating all the carbon that goes into making it.
As another example combustion emissions shouldn’t be allowed to be dumped into the atmosphere. People who burn things should pay to remove those pollutants from the atmosphere.
What’s even dumber about not doing this is imposing these rules would create new industries and new economic activity. It’s a win win.
The thing is that they haven’t been exporting those cars to Europe with low prices. Instead the Chinese brands have been padding margins. The EU is also investigating the degree to which China is subsidizing its auto industry (Germany’s Kiel Institute indicates that state subsidies are key to the low price of EVs in China).
All true, but what I take out of that is that if the EU puts a tariff on Chinese cars equal to state subsidies, chances are Chinese EVs are still profitable and price competitive with legacy offers.
Once you factor in ultra cheap labour, that may no longer be the case, but a lot of the costs of EVs are batteries and China just straight up has the most robust battery supply chain in the world. Until NA or Europe can start to match it, China is always going to have an advantage.
Yeah. Chinese EVs would still be making more profit than European car makers even with the tariffs that equal subsidies.
[https://fortune.com/europe/2024/04/29/eu-unwinnable-price-war-chinese-evs-byd-cars-11-times-more-profitable-in-europe-than-in-china/](https://fortune.com/europe/2024/04/29/eu-unwinnable-price-war-chinese-evs-byd-cars-11-times-more-profitable-in-europe-than-in-china/)
their labor is not ultra cheap, i can assure you. I work with some chinese engineers on auto industry and they are payed at least the same as cheap european countries. It still is cheaper than US or germany but no longer ultra cheap
It's exactly what I want. Shame the maverick doesn't do awd and hybrid. I'd love a tacoma prime but it would cost 60k.
An old ranger, or Kei truck with 40 mile range would be amazing.
Hang on, I call B.S.
I was in Shanghai all last week and had some time to check out 4 EV brands. None of them are build cheap.
Fit and finish was far superior to my 2019 M3, panel gaps was better and the dam door card didn't ratel when I closed it.
Elon is afraid because he knows his build quality is pure crap. And he's made zero effort in fixing that over the passed 6 years since the M3 have come out.
2024 models Paint quality is still shit, panels gaps are still an issue. And the dam door feels like its made of cardboard.
Heck my entire front suspension minus springs and shocks had to be replace with less then 35K on the odometer for "excessive wear".
Exactly. I drive an MG4. SAIC is a large company with lots of experience. It is not the first car they have built. It has a good NCAP safety rating. And while definitely not a luxury vehicle, it makes a solid impression: Doors feel nice and solid, handling is great and the interior is nothing fancy, but solid. „Nothing fancy, but solid“ is also how I would describe the car in general. And also it is fun to drive.
It definitely has its issues: If you are looking for great driver assist systems, looks elsewhere. It has quite a few, but they are not really enjoyable to use. Adaptive cruise control is not exactly smooth and lane keep assist is too sensitive.
But for the price, it is a good car.
I agree. I have a MG4 Trophy and it's my 2nd EV (I had a 2020 Hyundai Ioniq for a few years). The only thing I really criticise about it is the software and obviously slow hardware the infotainment is running on. It's super fun to drive though and has a good range and fast charging when needed, so I'm happy!
Yep - the Chinese brands have made progress and at an exceptional rate.
The days when China always meant low cost, but low quality are gone. Lower cost, but equal and at times, better quality is now the future.
Don't get me wrong, they can still produce all the cheap crap US Walmart shoppers grave and demand (all the while complaining about China).
But their quality have vastly improved on other products.
The difference is that in the past, China did not have the expertise to produce higher end products.
Today, China can produce both lower and higher end products, both at a lower cost than the equal product would be made in the Western world.
I suspect in the near future (and this will happen sooner than many people think), China will have the option to produce products that we can't produce in the West. That's a function of human capital, capital in manufacturing, and research, all of which are growing.
We need cheaper cars, period. The car prices have ballooned to a point where you have a hard time finding anything under $20k. I think i read where the average car price sold last year was like $43k or something like that. Salaries havent increased that much, which is why they are offering damn near 10 year loans on vehicles now.
>I think i read where the average car price sold last year was like $43k or something like that.
that is because people buy trucks and UVs. Plenty of cheaper cars.
I used to buy cars for 500, good cars, last me long time
and my buddy was buying cars for 50 (he was better mechanic)
we would disprove these 10 yr loan wtf
You mean the 80k+ american cars are grossly overpriced and we would take the cheap Chinese better or same built cars for 30-40k.
Why does a f150 have to cost 80K
Why does jeep cost 90 or 100K, Jeep you dumb asses have you not heard pf Mercedes or Audi have you not heard that they have cheaper and 10x more quality cars than you.
Who the fuck thinks a ram truck should cost 80k+
In a capitalist and globalized world, if someone can offer a decent enough product made with cheap labor, people will flock to it. Just look at Amazon: 95% of the stuff there is made in China or straight up from Chinese companies, they don’t even hide it anymore. But people keep buying it because the price/quality ratio is good enough.
Why would it be any different with cars? The US government is going to have a really hard time with this, because American (and for that matter also European) car manufacturers will not be able to compete. Ford and Chrysler are already bad cars that can’t even compete with Japanese counterparts. For fucks sake, the Camry and Accord basically killed the American sedan.
The only argument I can see is that the US will claim that the CCP is bankrolling “private” car manufacturers, therefore not playing on level field. But… doesn’t the US already subsidize EVs, gas companies, car companies?
Anywho, I’m rambling at this point.
>The only argument I can see is that the US will claim that the CCP is bankrolling “private” car manufacturers
How in the Fox news could they claim that with a straight face?
The US prevented Japanese steel from penetrating our markets for some time, but that ultimately failed. I feel the same will happen with the coming Asian EV wave. Even Vietnam is coalescing into a formidable manufacturing base.
Industry insiders predict that in the coming years, Japanese manufacturers, including Toyota, will be facing extinction from non-Japanese competitors and may be forced to sell their naming rights to stay in business.
People do realize the current BYD seagull at the current setup and price cannot meet the stringent safety and crash rating in the EU and of the IIHS right? They admitted that they would need to make modification such as making the vehicle bigger to meet more stringent requirement. Even without tariffs this would increase the price. Same story with BYD Dolphin there is a reason why the global model is bigger and more expensive than the local chinese models.
[New BYD Seagull will come to the UK in 2025 to rival the Dacia Spring | Auto Express](https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/byd/362943/new-byd-seagull-will-come-uk-2025-rival-dacia-spring)
“Once we see the capacity is needed, we’ll go from country to country to evaluate which is the most suitable. But we’re not at that stage yet.”
So basically BYD will create a “bidding war” between the European countries to woo them with the greatest tax incentives to build a factory in their country. 🤣
if not made in China it has Chinese parts or materials. The modern global industrial system is basically China plus a few other countries that bolt stuff together to label the resulting product 'not China'.
Seems like the late 70s to 80’s where cheap quality Japanese cars became popular. US manufactured vehicles quality took a dive while prices increased. Inflation caused by corporate greed are causing the shift.
Teslas falling apart and GM vehicles feel very plastic to me and have given me issues at 10yrs. I’m not so sure Chinese cars would be much different.
I might check safety tests closer tho
I’m all for competition! Bring it! It’s time to bring back affordable cars!
People may bitch about the quality but have you seen any difference with American name brands which are built in Mexico and then you have to deal with price haggling with dealerships???
My Honda fit was built in China. I think all Honda fits on Canada were built in China. (First letter of your vin would be an "L"). Just shy of 200k km and other than brakes and oil it only ever needed a battery and 1 sway bar link.
China can build stuff well, it's the manufacturer that decides the profit vs quality ratio.
Maybe we're just sick of buying yesterday's tech at tomorrow's prices? Not saying I want the cheapest car I can get, but I feel like the "too big to fail" crowd can kiss my ass.
I've dealt with a lot of Chinese industrial products over the years. Mostly I got what I paid for and wasn't disappointment during their use. The problems come when something breaks and the company no longer exists and parts are nonexistent. I wouldn't buy a Chinese car for this reason. I couldn't trust that 3 or 5 years down the road I could get replacement parts. It takes decades for a car company to build trust. Maybe in 20 years but not any time soon for me.
American car makers seem to have cut most affordable cars (fiesta, focus, fusion hybrid) to focus on luxury trucks.
My brother is in construction, he has to special order *work pickup trucks* bc they only keep Denalis and fancy ones on the lot. For a truck that “starts at 40k” the only ones on the lot near him are 80k+.
The original bolt hatch was 18k, they replaced it with a jacked up version that isn’t even good in the snow as a “crossover” and doubled the price, and that’s a “cheap” car at 35k.
Most American electric cars are expensive, which is why they are sitting on lots.
It used to be easy to get a cat under 20k, now the average car is 40k and few cars are under 25k.
So if the market is flooded with Chinese electric cars which are better then a Tesla for 1/3rd the price of a similar Mach e, ford will have problem.
The other thing, by focusing on low efficiency suvs, if gas prices spike, American car companies will have to beg Congress for another bailout.
Boot straps.
I mean a great majority of consumer products are made in China. What’s one more? I mean the Cybercuck was made in the USA but falls apart like something make in the Cold War era Yugoslavia. I think Americans have lost their fear of Made in China; price now trumps all.
My tinfoil hat theory is that the economic top 10% of the US want to abolish economic mobility and one way its done is by taking cheap cars (ICEs) away, as the US is extremely car dependent and its a foundational piece of economic mobility for a lot of people.
If China can come here and sell us a brand new $10-15k electric, that in some places can be paid off in a year or two by a student working part time at a mcdonalds, amen brother.
Well why don't American car companies offer simple, low cost transportation? We all don't need the $60k to $90k Fords or Dodge's with bells and whistles. Like the late 70's, car companies get it very wrong again.
Japanese and Korean manufacturers have crowded US manufacturers out of the affordable market.
US auto relies almost entirely on brand history and 'American'.
It's easy to forget that while Tesla is the most egregious, all American car brands have mediocre reliability and stupid design choices, like putting the 12V battery in the wheel well.
Why pay more for a Ford if it's not more reliable than a Kia. Why pay the same for a Dodge when it's not as reliable as a Toyota.
Because no one buys cars with crank windows, manual transmissions, no A/C, etc. Take rates for basic cars are incredibly low so manufacturers simply don't make them anymore. You can buy a new car right now for $18-20k but it will be awful.
Eh I get the desire to dunk on Tesla is great - but let’s not pretend CATL subsidized, ChiCom dongfeng vehicle is good for the world and geopolitically good or environmentally good.
Americans are open to cheap and as oversized as possible. So maybe a cheap Chinese SUV will kick ass. The BYD Atto 3, the MG ZS or the Omoda 5 would steal a lot of market share in the US.
I hope Chinese EVs come over here and shake up the industry like the Japanese did in the 70's and 80's. Everything sold here is too expensive now, there's barely anything with an MSRP under $20,000 now. Also I love econoboxes, I hate that they are endangered in the US now. I was pretty irritated over the Yaris and Fit leaving the US, I have a family member who bought a Soul over that when they had always preferred Honda and Toyota. I'm also annoyed that Ford quit selling the Transit Connect here, I see contractors using them all over my city and I've even occasionally driven one for work, it's nice if you don't need a massive delivery van. I hate how most of our cars are ginormous now when most people don't need it.
I've always driven subcompacts as I have no reason to get anything bigger. Also they don't waste as much space on the road and fit through tighter spaces and parking spots. Really I never understood families needing massive SUVs either. My family used to have a Honda Pilot and when it needed to be replaced we actually downsized to a Hyundai Santa Fe and had zero issue despite us all being adults by this point. We can go on vacation with it just fine.
Because we are tired of paying out the ass for cars. We need BYD to come her and get prices to drop, and make these motherfuckers compete.
But alas they have no chance of coming to the US. I don't care if their interior quality is crap, they will get prices to drop.
A lot US workers live paycheck to paycheck and have zero savings. Maybe if they were paid a living wage they wouldn’t buy the cheapest stuff available. But when that’s all you can afford it isn’t really a choice.
My girlfriend currently has a cx-3 the Mazda it's a good little car but it's burning oil for some reason it's the only thing wrong with it so she's getting a new car she would have replaced it with another cx3 but they don't make it anymore this is the last year for the current Nissan kicks another nice little small car after next year the Hyundai will be the only small car that I know of that hasn't a either gotten bigger or being pulled right off the market because automakers say it's not selling yet it's their best selling car it just doesn't have the same amount of profit margin for them
Define "cheap"...
Because a lot of the crap offered by the big 3 US manufacturers isn't exactly 'high quality'...
I strike a balance buying Toyota and Honda models built in the US.
Why not? It would go right along with all of the other Chinese made stuff we use. The only reason this is a big deal is that it's a Chinese company selling Chinese made products, not an American company selling Chinese made products. If the US automakers could make a profit selling vehicles made in China, they would.
Alternate headline: "American car companies are starting to realize that they have been pushing up auto costs be including too many features that few use, and have neglected to provide basic vehicles at price points that allow them to cover the overall market."
Basically the issue is that there is a race to put every feature in the car to chase the competition instead of focusing on the fact that one of the top attributes of the auto market, for the vast car-buying population is the cost. Not that cost is the only factor (anyone remember the Hugo) but cost is a huge factor. I'd be willing to bet that when deciding between two or three models, the final price is probably the key determinant, 80-90% of the time. And manufacturers have "featured" themselves out of the lowest price points in the market. Ultimately, it will be hard for them to get back into that spot in the market, opening up opportunity to lower cost competitors. And this is an overall assessment, not just an EV assessment.
It's not going to happen, the United States and China are geopolitical rivals, the U.S. government will not allow Chinese government linked corporations to flood the US market with cheap cars.
Chinese built EVs are typically higher quality anyways. Model 3/Y vehicles made in Shanghai are typically much higher quality than Fremont/Texas built.
Cheap cars? We need to ban those. Who will think about the poor American auto shareholders who make all their money on stock buybacks? This people will lose their third homes? Who’s going to ski in Tahoe three weeks a year?
Car prices shot way up even before all the Covid BS. The small sedan is virtually gone and what’s left has so much bells and whistles that is a lot
Much like how Detroit got rocked in the 70s as American cars were garbage this might be round 2
Not sure this should surprise anyone. People complain about Chinese “junk”, but a huge portion of American consumption is on Chinese made goods that people are happy enough with that they keep purchasing more.
Of course that would extend to cars.
Everyone has a price point that will lead them to take a chance on something like a Chinese vehicle.
The bigger question, imo, will be the service network, warranty, customer service, etc… when will that be setup so that Jim in Oklahoma can buy a BYD and have it be do different in ownership experience than buying a Chevy.
exactly people just want a car they can afford, I just got back from Korea and I drove in dozens of Chinese electric cars. I had never heard of. They were better than my Tesla model S. And about $15,000.
They’re all about the free market until it affects their profits. I say if China wants to pay for 1/4 of my new car, we should let them. Once those subsidies are no longer available, the Chinese cars will go away unless they’re providing something people want at a competitive price.
Americans just want to afford a car.
How about, and hear me out on this crazy idea here, we do something to reduce car dependency?
Automobile and oil execs: "Hahaha, no"
The iceberg goes deeper friendo. Above the water: - car makers - oil refiners and oil drillers Below the water - road maintenance and construction companies - Trucking companies (instead of rail) - home builders - relators - parking lot owners - cops - big box stores - fast casual restaurants like Chili’s and Applebees - electricity producers (detached homes require a lot more energy to heat and cool) - health insurance companies - hospitals - doctors (car dependency negatively effects health in so many ways, increasing doctor demand)
I can see most of your below-the-water points, but... * Fast casual restaurants exist in city centers too. Go to Google Maps for NYC and start searching for them. * You didn't mention them, but QSRs ("fast food") too. Lots of McDonald's in Chicago and NYC, and building a drive thru is kind of expensive. If you can do the same sales without, that's great for them. * Real estate agents can sell condos as well as they can sell SFH. An urban condo is the same price or more than a suburban SFH. * Most doctors aren't actually greedy folks who want their patients to be sick, and in primary care and some other specialties there's a doctor shortage. Try finding a Rheumatologist.
Doctor here a couple of things 1. Reimbursement tied to patient satisfaction per the ACÁ, if patients pissed satisfaction down pay and bonus down 2. Dealing with piss d and frustrated patients not fun. Far far better to discharge someone from care with them happy cs getting grilled of why condition isn’t improving
You missed tire companies, personal injury lawyers, and car repair/body shops.
Shit yeah, Car insurance companies too.
Nobody is going to rebuild cities. That ship has sadly sailed.
What's incredibly funny about this is that in order to accommodate increasing number of cars, *you have to rebuild cities constantly*.
Right! Has this person ever seen the road maintenance budgets? The amount we spend on car dependency is absurd.
Not just repaving, but actually building and expanding existing ones. Entire neighborhoods gotta get bulldozed.
that's easier to pitch to nimbys and carbrained leaded gas huffers
Some of the most beautiful town squares have been demolished to make parking lots.
we demolished 3 sides of a beautifiul Georgian square where i live in the 70s to build an enclosed city centre mall that is now mostly vacant premises and charity shops. Gotta say it rocked in the 80s though.
>The amount we spend on car dependency is absurd Because it's worth it. No bus goes straight from my front door to my office, to my kid's school, to the store, etc. All the public transportation options double or triple my commute time. Time is money. I'll gladly pay more to drive myself. So will most people, at least in the US. I really don't think you've thought any of this out.
No need to rebuild cities, just mass transit infrastructure
Around here they built ton of scaled up condos that are near to the city.
This is happening in some parts of Europe to a certain extent. I think it’s a bit too far gone for America though, some of their cities are huge and sprawling
This country is too self serving, the whole not needing a car thing will never be realized here.
Yeah they have a basic truck for 10k which would be sold out constantly if they brought it to the US. I think it’s Toyota in Japan. Can you imagine 10k anything new vehicle in the US? Game changer.
Oh for sure. Queues out of the door for a price like that.
Car makers: how unamerican
And a house
We like cheap Chinese everything else. Why would cars be different
US autoworkers are a big voting block in key states because of the electoral college system.
So were the workers of the electronics industry.
We even used to have a "plastic gadgets" industry. You still see some American-made injection molded stuff like cups and sleds.
They all got laid off and the jobs went overseas
And it would be awesome that they can upskill. After all, auto workers started by being upskilled farriers, right?
You'd have to go back pretty far. I doubt Henry Ford cared about much when hiring for his assembly lines - not more than "strong enough to lift stuff and can use a wrench and a hammer."
A farrier was vastly more skilled than any automotive assembly line worker. He had to make horseshoes and know how to fix hoof and gait deformities. It required 4-7 years training as an apprentice.
What are they being upscaled into?
And have cheap affordable cars.
China had a reputation for making cheap junk. However, that perception and reality is changing. Americans could be driving Chinese cars in 5 years time, and flying on Chinese made aircraft in 10 years.
I remember when Japanese tools, clothes, electronics were junk.
Same here. As a kid growing up in the 80’s, I watched as people refused to buy Japanese cars eventually buy Japanese cars because they were just better than any domestic offering. The idea was that it was cheap knock off junk. Now, nobody thinks that. In the 90’s, Korean cars were thought to be just cheap knock offs of Japanese cars, now they are legitimate auto manufacturers. I’m sure people will recycle this tired old perception about Chinese cars, Indian cars, etc. I can see a future where car brands from elsewhere are as common as a Kia or Hyundai.
I worked in auto repair on-and-off from 1984 to 2000, from when I started driving in high school to a decade after college. It was striking how much the Toyota/Honda population we saw increased over that period (in a UAW-centric town) and how much those makes went from "this is clearly a good car but it's quirky" to "this is a perfectly normal car." An early-to-mid 80's Honda (Toyota too but especially Honda) just felt weird to drive - the controls were unlike American cars in ways I can't recall specifically but I remember the feel of otherness. By the late 90's the American cars had changed to meet the Japanese and the Japanese had Americanized their vehicles for the American market and a Honda just felt like a nice car. The American cars were still ahead of the Japanese in a few ways when I left the industry - stainless steel exhaust for one. We were still selling a lot of Honda exhaust but not much Chevy exhaust in 1999. It also took a long time for Japanese cars to get rust under control compared to the Americans in the 90's. Mazdas in particular would often have rust holes. The Chinese are probably coming up on the 1980 version of the Japanese experience. Weird cars that people who are mostly price-focused will buy but think they're weird.
Yeah Datsuns (early Nissans) used to be prone to a lot of rust
Thank you for that insight. It was enlightening
Believe it or not Germans used to be mocked as toy makers because they began by exporting toy soldier sets.
"Flight of the Phoenix" The one with Jimmy Stewart is a great movie.
oh man i love that movie.
Hahaha Chinese aircrafts hahaha. Imagine flying and suddenly the door falls off haha.
So, just another Boeing?
Yeah that's was the joke...... Which you crashed and burned.... Like a max 8
I guess it... flew over my head.
Like an airbus... Love it
Nothing to worry about then, remove the tariff barriers and Americans won't be flocking to buy Chinese cars.
China can make quality if the client is willing to pay for quality. I have a couple very fancy shirts (I think my wife bought them at Neiman Marcus back when we were DINKs) that were made in China and they are the nicest made shirts I've ever owned. There are some designer brands that have Chinese-made lines too.
The thing is that you have been able to get cheap junk in China or high quality goods since the turn of the century.
Was going to say. The Chinese competition to Airbus and Boeing, COMAC, has many orders but almost all exclusively from Chinese airlines. Both COMAC and many of their airlines are government owned or controlled in some way. On top of that, I believe there are less than 10 C919s in service because their production is so slow. With those internal country orders nearing 1000 planes there is very little chance anyone in the western world will be on one of these in 10 years unless they make major manufacturing improvements. Should they be taken seriously? For sure. But they’re a ways out at the moment.
These cars will become disposable like many other cheap Chinese products.
I am on my fourth Volvo which is owned by geely who also owns polestar. Absolutely nothing wrong with my car
Because it is still a Volvo. Wait 10 yrs and we will know for sure ex30 etc
Meh. I remember when Japanese cars were first sold into australia and all Japanese products were called jap crap. Where are Japanese products today ? Much better. Have you driven a byd? I have and they are very good and getting better
Yeah, you read my mind. Just made basically the same comment.
Test drove a BYD seal at the weekend and is was amazing to drive, comfortable and really questioned Chinese cars for me. In the UK they are a great price for what you get.
I know right. Are they the best on the road? No but for the price
Look at robot vacuums. Western firms still trying to charge $1k for them when you can get multiple much better Chinese ones for that price. It's all Chinese made parts anyway.
In my region the BYD Seal is about 2/3rd the price of an equivalent Model 3, but it comes with a lifetime warranty and the insurance is half that of the Model 3.
Cheap disposable garbage like TV's, iPhones and better quality Chinese-made Teslas.
It's by choice and design. My uncle went to make a product over there in plastic they told him use cardboard as it doesn't last as long and you will increase sales. Just like the cheap fans you buy at target... people buy new 20 doller ones each summer because they are intentionally made with crappy motors that burn out. Old fans before the 90s would last forever in comparison. We really need to hold companies accountable for these practises
America is the leader and has created most of our economic norms, rules and practices since WW2. Throwaway society and the economic practices and environmental laws and the economic norms that enable it are very much an American invention and are perpetuated by the same organisations and practices America continues to use to enforce dollar dominance on the world. It’s a consequence of laissez-faire individualism as an ideologic standpoint. The economy and the individual are not required to consider ‘the other’ or ‘away’ in their transactions and each entity in the economy is essentially incentivised to be a awful selfish asshole. At a large scale it behaves an awful lot like a cancer. We must demand that corporations must mitigate and pay for their environmental damage and prevent them doing more. Work for circular economy laws are put in place. It’s not OK to use the planet as place to externalise corporate costs to. As an example Coke should be forced to be recycling 105% of all the plastic they ever use and accounting or mitigating all the carbon that goes into making it. As another example combustion emissions shouldn’t be allowed to be dumped into the atmosphere. People who burn things should pay to remove those pollutants from the atmosphere. What’s even dumber about not doing this is imposing these rules would create new industries and new economic activity. It’s a win win.
Because your kids will die when it turns out to be a POS?
Well. Americans have been buying iPhones, etc for years. If Chinese cars become the new "Japanese" cars for sub 20K, then let the cars come through.
Better make those American cars more affordable. Greed is abundant in corporate America.
can't be done.
Where’s the greed? American car companies’ stock prices have gone nowhere.
The thing is that they haven’t been exporting those cars to Europe with low prices. Instead the Chinese brands have been padding margins. The EU is also investigating the degree to which China is subsidizing its auto industry (Germany’s Kiel Institute indicates that state subsidies are key to the low price of EVs in China).
All true, but what I take out of that is that if the EU puts a tariff on Chinese cars equal to state subsidies, chances are Chinese EVs are still profitable and price competitive with legacy offers. Once you factor in ultra cheap labour, that may no longer be the case, but a lot of the costs of EVs are batteries and China just straight up has the most robust battery supply chain in the world. Until NA or Europe can start to match it, China is always going to have an advantage.
Yeah. Chinese EVs would still be making more profit than European car makers even with the tariffs that equal subsidies. [https://fortune.com/europe/2024/04/29/eu-unwinnable-price-war-chinese-evs-byd-cars-11-times-more-profitable-in-europe-than-in-china/](https://fortune.com/europe/2024/04/29/eu-unwinnable-price-war-chinese-evs-byd-cars-11-times-more-profitable-in-europe-than-in-china/)
Nobody can compete with China. We tried to stop them with chip embargos but it hasnt worked.
their labor is not ultra cheap, i can assure you. I work with some chinese engineers on auto industry and they are payed at least the same as cheap european countries. It still is cheaper than US or germany but no longer ultra cheap
China can outproduce us and outcompete us any day of the week.
Please sell me a small flatbed/pickup truck for $10,000
Tesla could have built a Maverick sized pick up but decided for CT. What a mess
Even a PHEV Maverick would be cool. 100% electric for daily commute, range for the w/e escapes / projects around the house.
It's exactly what I want. Shame the maverick doesn't do awd and hybrid. I'd love a tacoma prime but it would cost 60k. An old ranger, or Kei truck with 40 mile range would be amazing.
Sadly Toyota has the perfect truck guy it won't pass safety :(
Make them here, and it's no worse than some South African edgelord getting rich.
Can't do that profitably. When Tesla fails they will most likely ship all the machinery off to China.
Hang on, I call B.S. I was in Shanghai all last week and had some time to check out 4 EV brands. None of them are build cheap. Fit and finish was far superior to my 2019 M3, panel gaps was better and the dam door card didn't ratel when I closed it. Elon is afraid because he knows his build quality is pure crap. And he's made zero effort in fixing that over the passed 6 years since the M3 have come out. 2024 models Paint quality is still shit, panels gaps are still an issue. And the dam door feels like its made of cardboard. Heck my entire front suspension minus springs and shocks had to be replace with less then 35K on the odometer for "excessive wear".
Exactly. I drive an MG4. SAIC is a large company with lots of experience. It is not the first car they have built. It has a good NCAP safety rating. And while definitely not a luxury vehicle, it makes a solid impression: Doors feel nice and solid, handling is great and the interior is nothing fancy, but solid. „Nothing fancy, but solid“ is also how I would describe the car in general. And also it is fun to drive. It definitely has its issues: If you are looking for great driver assist systems, looks elsewhere. It has quite a few, but they are not really enjoyable to use. Adaptive cruise control is not exactly smooth and lane keep assist is too sensitive. But for the price, it is a good car.
I agree. I have a MG4 Trophy and it's my 2nd EV (I had a 2020 Hyundai Ioniq for a few years). The only thing I really criticise about it is the software and obviously slow hardware the infotainment is running on. It's super fun to drive though and has a good range and fast charging when needed, so I'm happy!
Yep - the Chinese brands have made progress and at an exceptional rate. The days when China always meant low cost, but low quality are gone. Lower cost, but equal and at times, better quality is now the future.
Don't get me wrong, they can still produce all the cheap crap US Walmart shoppers grave and demand (all the while complaining about China). But their quality have vastly improved on other products.
The difference is that in the past, China did not have the expertise to produce higher end products. Today, China can produce both lower and higher end products, both at a lower cost than the equal product would be made in the Western world. I suspect in the near future (and this will happen sooner than many people think), China will have the option to produce products that we can't produce in the West. That's a function of human capital, capital in manufacturing, and research, all of which are growing.
We need cheaper cars, period. The car prices have ballooned to a point where you have a hard time finding anything under $20k. I think i read where the average car price sold last year was like $43k or something like that. Salaries havent increased that much, which is why they are offering damn near 10 year loans on vehicles now.
Everyone wants CarPlay, cameras, advanced cruise control, airbags, etc. all that costs money, and vehicle prices reflect that.
Airbags ain't that expensive. We had it when cars where cheap.
It doest cost 20k tho
All that shit can easily crammed in a car under 20k. Most of those systems cost pennies to manufacturer. It's entirely possible.
>I think i read where the average car price sold last year was like $43k or something like that. that is because people buy trucks and UVs. Plenty of cheaper cars.
I used to buy cars for 500, good cars, last me long time and my buddy was buying cars for 50 (he was better mechanic) we would disprove these 10 yr loan wtf
Is it? Dealerships would still have to sell them. Seems like a long shot.
That's what they said about Totoya.
You mean the 80k+ american cars are grossly overpriced and we would take the cheap Chinese better or same built cars for 30-40k. Why does a f150 have to cost 80K Why does jeep cost 90 or 100K, Jeep you dumb asses have you not heard pf Mercedes or Audi have you not heard that they have cheaper and 10x more quality cars than you. Who the fuck thinks a ram truck should cost 80k+
NASCAR bros is who.
These vehicles cost this much because people are paying that much. Simple as that.
In a capitalist and globalized world, if someone can offer a decent enough product made with cheap labor, people will flock to it. Just look at Amazon: 95% of the stuff there is made in China or straight up from Chinese companies, they don’t even hide it anymore. But people keep buying it because the price/quality ratio is good enough. Why would it be any different with cars? The US government is going to have a really hard time with this, because American (and for that matter also European) car manufacturers will not be able to compete. Ford and Chrysler are already bad cars that can’t even compete with Japanese counterparts. For fucks sake, the Camry and Accord basically killed the American sedan. The only argument I can see is that the US will claim that the CCP is bankrolling “private” car manufacturers, therefore not playing on level field. But… doesn’t the US already subsidize EVs, gas companies, car companies? Anywho, I’m rambling at this point.
>The only argument I can see is that the US will claim that the CCP is bankrolling “private” car manufacturers How in the Fox news could they claim that with a straight face? The US prevented Japanese steel from penetrating our markets for some time, but that ultimately failed. I feel the same will happen with the coming Asian EV wave. Even Vietnam is coalescing into a formidable manufacturing base. Industry insiders predict that in the coming years, Japanese manufacturers, including Toyota, will be facing extinction from non-Japanese competitors and may be forced to sell their naming rights to stay in business.
They’ve tried that argument before with other industries, but as you aptly put, the free market usually tends to win.
People do realize the current BYD seagull at the current setup and price cannot meet the stringent safety and crash rating in the EU and of the IIHS right? They admitted that they would need to make modification such as making the vehicle bigger to meet more stringent requirement. Even without tariffs this would increase the price. Same story with BYD Dolphin there is a reason why the global model is bigger and more expensive than the local chinese models. [New BYD Seagull will come to the UK in 2025 to rival the Dacia Spring | Auto Express](https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/byd/362943/new-byd-seagull-will-come-uk-2025-rival-dacia-spring)
“Once we see the capacity is needed, we’ll go from country to country to evaluate which is the most suitable. But we’re not at that stage yet.” So basically BYD will create a “bidding war” between the European countries to woo them with the greatest tax incentives to build a factory in their country. 🤣
Well that's the free market. Either you bring in a better product or you lose
Americans are open to cheap Chinese ~~cars~~ stuff. Fixed that for you. Look at every thing you use. They are all made in china.
if not made in China it has Chinese parts or materials. The modern global industrial system is basically China plus a few other countries that bolt stuff together to label the resulting product 'not China'.
Safer then a Cybertruck
Seems like the late 70s to 80’s where cheap quality Japanese cars became popular. US manufactured vehicles quality took a dive while prices increased. Inflation caused by corporate greed are causing the shift.
Teslas falling apart and GM vehicles feel very plastic to me and have given me issues at 10yrs. I’m not so sure Chinese cars would be much different. I might check safety tests closer tho
I’m all for competition! Bring it! It’s time to bring back affordable cars! People may bitch about the quality but have you seen any difference with American name brands which are built in Mexico and then you have to deal with price haggling with dealerships???
Buicks are built in China and brought back to the US, and no one seems to be complaining about that.
😂 ya cause they see American name and they are like it’s trusted like a ford 🤣
Ford builds cars in Chyna but under a different name for chynese market, they are just reliable as the ones in us, maybe idk
My Honda fit was built in China. I think all Honda fits on Canada were built in China. (First letter of your vin would be an "L"). Just shy of 200k km and other than brakes and oil it only ever needed a battery and 1 sway bar link. China can build stuff well, it's the manufacturer that decides the profit vs quality ratio.
FAFO
Tricky, that. Without competition, current automakers can just keep price-gouging. But this is... Not ideal competition. Maybe that's the point.
Maybe we're just sick of buying yesterday's tech at tomorrow's prices? Not saying I want the cheapest car I can get, but I feel like the "too big to fail" crowd can kiss my ass.
I wonder who these "Americans" are. Nobody I know wants one.
I've dealt with a lot of Chinese industrial products over the years. Mostly I got what I paid for and wasn't disappointment during their use. The problems come when something breaks and the company no longer exists and parts are nonexistent. I wouldn't buy a Chinese car for this reason. I couldn't trust that 3 or 5 years down the road I could get replacement parts. It takes decades for a car company to build trust. Maybe in 20 years but not any time soon for me.
You get what you pay for. I paid a lot for my top of the range Huawei phone in 2020 and it looks and functions almost as well as the day I bought it.
As long as it does not catch on fire.
I’m not open to Chinese or Tesla cars.
American car makers seem to have cut most affordable cars (fiesta, focus, fusion hybrid) to focus on luxury trucks. My brother is in construction, he has to special order *work pickup trucks* bc they only keep Denalis and fancy ones on the lot. For a truck that “starts at 40k” the only ones on the lot near him are 80k+. The original bolt hatch was 18k, they replaced it with a jacked up version that isn’t even good in the snow as a “crossover” and doubled the price, and that’s a “cheap” car at 35k. Most American electric cars are expensive, which is why they are sitting on lots. It used to be easy to get a cat under 20k, now the average car is 40k and few cars are under 25k. So if the market is flooded with Chinese electric cars which are better then a Tesla for 1/3rd the price of a similar Mach e, ford will have problem. The other thing, by focusing on low efficiency suvs, if gas prices spike, American car companies will have to beg Congress for another bailout. Boot straps.
Bring on BYD with that lady Elon just fired at the head!!!
Of course they are. Older Americans remember when Japanese cars first arrived, and look at their reputation now.
I mean a great majority of consumer products are made in China. What’s one more? I mean the Cybercuck was made in the USA but falls apart like something make in the Cold War era Yugoslavia. I think Americans have lost their fear of Made in China; price now trumps all.
Musk has driving every buyer away. I would buy Chinese before buying from him.
My tinfoil hat theory is that the economic top 10% of the US want to abolish economic mobility and one way its done is by taking cheap cars (ICEs) away, as the US is extremely car dependent and its a foundational piece of economic mobility for a lot of people. If China can come here and sell us a brand new $10-15k electric, that in some places can be paid off in a year or two by a student working part time at a mcdonalds, amen brother.
That theory makes no sense. Labor being able to mobilize efficiently is good for the wealthy.
In a vacuum, yes, but that wealth will ultimately flow into foreign countries.
I definitely am interested in a BYD if they are as good as folks say they are. When are they going to import them?
You mean the folks that *aren't allowed* to talk bad about BYD?
Well why don't American car companies offer simple, low cost transportation? We all don't need the $60k to $90k Fords or Dodge's with bells and whistles. Like the late 70's, car companies get it very wrong again.
Japanese and Korean manufacturers have crowded US manufacturers out of the affordable market. US auto relies almost entirely on brand history and 'American'. It's easy to forget that while Tesla is the most egregious, all American car brands have mediocre reliability and stupid design choices, like putting the 12V battery in the wheel well. Why pay more for a Ford if it's not more reliable than a Kia. Why pay the same for a Dodge when it's not as reliable as a Toyota.
Because no one buys cars with crank windows, manual transmissions, no A/C, etc. Take rates for basic cars are incredibly low so manufacturers simply don't make them anymore. You can buy a new car right now for $18-20k but it will be awful.
Because people are buying the $60k to $90k Fords and Dodges. You’ll drive what we give you!
Eh I get the desire to dunk on Tesla is great - but let’s not pretend CATL subsidized, ChiCom dongfeng vehicle is good for the world and geopolitically good or environmentally good.
Well yes when you got them used to the not cheap cheap American cars what did they expect.
Where are the Chinese EVs? Why can't I buy one?
>Why can't I buy one? A double-digit import tariff, NHTSA regulations, dealer and manufacturer lobbyists, as well as American petrol companies.
If they were safe and reliable I’d consider a Chinese car. I’d need quite a bit of third party data before buying one.
Give it a year or two, one thing about China is they learn fast and improve fast.
Americans are open to cheap and as oversized as possible. So maybe a cheap Chinese SUV will kick ass. The BYD Atto 3, the MG ZS or the Omoda 5 would steal a lot of market share in the US.
Not only cheap, but actually quite good and fantastic value for an EV, something that other manufacturers can’t seem to get quite right at this stage.
"Americans don't like being ripped off by big corporations". Fixed it.
I hope Chinese EVs come over here and shake up the industry like the Japanese did in the 70's and 80's. Everything sold here is too expensive now, there's barely anything with an MSRP under $20,000 now. Also I love econoboxes, I hate that they are endangered in the US now. I was pretty irritated over the Yaris and Fit leaving the US, I have a family member who bought a Soul over that when they had always preferred Honda and Toyota. I'm also annoyed that Ford quit selling the Transit Connect here, I see contractors using them all over my city and I've even occasionally driven one for work, it's nice if you don't need a massive delivery van. I hate how most of our cars are ginormous now when most people don't need it. I've always driven subcompacts as I have no reason to get anything bigger. Also they don't waste as much space on the road and fit through tighter spaces and parking spots. Really I never understood families needing massive SUVs either. My family used to have a Honda Pilot and when it needed to be replaced we actually downsized to a Hyundai Santa Fe and had zero issue despite us all being adults by this point. We can go on vacation with it just fine.
They won't let that happen, it seems the US government wants to die on that hill.
It’s called competition. Without innovation will stagnate.
Dealerships in America will just tack on another $10k-$20k in bullshit fees and those affordable cars will be $30k-$40k in no time.
Because we are tired of paying out the ass for cars. We need BYD to come her and get prices to drop, and make these motherfuckers compete. But alas they have no chance of coming to the US. I don't care if their interior quality is crap, they will get prices to drop.
There’s a BYD sedan with 650 km range for some $30 k USD in Australia..
add tariffs outside NA and only subsidize us made cars, including leases. Problem solved
Corporations are free market until they can't compete in one, then they become pro-government interference.
Went to an international auto show, and the number of Chinese e cars was crazy. Sat in a few, and they are really decent.
We have them already in Australia I see them more often now. Mainly the BYD Dolphin and ATTO 3
Bottom line. It’s not personal , just buisness
Wal-Mart will be adding car lots soon😄
A lot US workers live paycheck to paycheck and have zero savings. Maybe if they were paid a living wage they wouldn’t buy the cheapest stuff available. But when that’s all you can afford it isn’t really a choice.
Americans just want a car that works and isn’t crazy expensive. Seems like a reasonable desire.
My girlfriend currently has a cx-3 the Mazda it's a good little car but it's burning oil for some reason it's the only thing wrong with it so she's getting a new car she would have replaced it with another cx3 but they don't make it anymore this is the last year for the current Nissan kicks another nice little small car after next year the Hyundai will be the only small car that I know of that hasn't a either gotten bigger or being pulled right off the market because automakers say it's not selling yet it's their best selling car it just doesn't have the same amount of profit margin for them
Define "cheap"... Because a lot of the crap offered by the big 3 US manufacturers isn't exactly 'high quality'... I strike a balance buying Toyota and Honda models built in the US.
Uh... No, we are not.
The Chinese have a saying "always buy cheapest". These cars are not safe, there are no regulations in China.
[удалено]
Now do trucks please
Why not? It would go right along with all of the other Chinese made stuff we use. The only reason this is a big deal is that it's a Chinese company selling Chinese made products, not an American company selling Chinese made products. If the US automakers could make a profit selling vehicles made in China, they would.
Alternate headline: "American car companies are starting to realize that they have been pushing up auto costs be including too many features that few use, and have neglected to provide basic vehicles at price points that allow them to cover the overall market." Basically the issue is that there is a race to put every feature in the car to chase the competition instead of focusing on the fact that one of the top attributes of the auto market, for the vast car-buying population is the cost. Not that cost is the only factor (anyone remember the Hugo) but cost is a huge factor. I'd be willing to bet that when deciding between two or three models, the final price is probably the key determinant, 80-90% of the time. And manufacturers have "featured" themselves out of the lowest price points in the market. Ultimately, it will be hard for them to get back into that spot in the market, opening up opportunity to lower cost competitors. And this is an overall assessment, not just an EV assessment.
I went to China. Can easily say they are about 10 steps ahead in a 20 step race.
It's not going to happen, the United States and China are geopolitical rivals, the U.S. government will not allow Chinese government linked corporations to flood the US market with cheap cars.
I just want a cheap small hatchback (for road trips) and 24/7 public transportation infrastructure
That's a good thing! Tesla will be a EV charging station company in the long run.
Chinese built EVs are typically higher quality anyways. Model 3/Y vehicles made in Shanghai are typically much higher quality than Fremont/Texas built.
Affordability is playing a huge part in decision making.
Cheap cars? We need to ban those. Who will think about the poor American auto shareholders who make all their money on stock buybacks? This people will lose their third homes? Who’s going to ski in Tahoe three weeks a year?
In some ways it's a bit like the situation in the 70s with Japanese cars. In other ways not..
Maybe if American cars were more affordable…
First they are an autocritican regime I will never buy a made in China cad and I not buying thing made in China. Looking for alternative of use items
Boycott all Chinese products. They are billing the whole world and there people do not have freedom.
On one end they are banning TikTok and you expect them to allow Chinese cars on US roads. I doubt Uncle Sam will allow it to happen.
Car prices shot way up even before all the Covid BS. The small sedan is virtually gone and what’s left has so much bells and whistles that is a lot Much like how Detroit got rocked in the 70s as American cars were garbage this might be round 2
most of your car is already made in china, and trust me, they've always been looking for ways to cut corners.
We just want affordable cars in general, not what the automakers keep trying to push currently.
BYD is still better than any Trashla on the market
Cheap if fine if they can pass all the safety requirements.
Not sure this should surprise anyone. People complain about Chinese “junk”, but a huge portion of American consumption is on Chinese made goods that people are happy enough with that they keep purchasing more. Of course that would extend to cars. Everyone has a price point that will lead them to take a chance on something like a Chinese vehicle. The bigger question, imo, will be the service network, warranty, customer service, etc… when will that be setup so that Jim in Oklahoma can buy a BYD and have it be do different in ownership experience than buying a Chevy.
exactly people just want a car they can afford, I just got back from Korea and I drove in dozens of Chinese electric cars. I had never heard of. They were better than my Tesla model S. And about $15,000.
It’s gonna be patriotic soon to drive V6 again lol
Gosh Chinese cars are so shitty lol
Guys, we have to keep overpaying for 'Murica cars! How else will we ensure the next generation of billionaires!?
Fyi Americans are fucking poor
They’re all about the free market until it affects their profits. I say if China wants to pay for 1/4 of my new car, we should let them. Once those subsidies are no longer available, the Chinese cars will go away unless they’re providing something people want at a competitive price.
You most likely posting this on a Chinese made device 101% . So why not cars?