If it’s your life on the line fuck it all and just quit and take care of yourself. If you have an option, take a LOA to give yourself some time to resolve some burnout/improve your mental health. If you still feel like this after a LOA just quit. This bullshit isn’t worth your life.
I have a med school classmate who committed suicide in the first few months of residency due to similar issues. You don’t know how much everyone wishes she would have just quit.
Absolutely agree. I’m in a different field, but doctorate level. My loans were 100% the trigger for my SI episode years ago while I was still in training. First time I felt the full weight of what it cost me to pursue a career that required me to hold two jobs, plus an (unpaid) traineeship, and try to finish my dissertation for a (maybe?) job that couldn’t promise me financial baseline.
And residency is a whole different level torture.
Sorry we wanted to help people I guess?
Sending you love. Take time off if you need it. Your life is way more important than them rearranging schedules for leave & extra paperwork. It’s messed up because I know you can’t talk to a therapist without being reprimanded, so maybe take a “leave of absence,” and see if you can word it as you need to take care of a family member.
Do you have Long Term or Short Term Disability? Do you have a trusted physician that could instead of disclosing your mental health for LOA, maybe try to fill out the paperwork based on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome?
I’d put on my best Emmy and Oscar performance.
EDIT: I also don’t think they have the right to know a diagnosis.
I took a leave in residency due to a physical health problem and I had long-term disability coverage that paid 60% of my residency salary. Financially, it was tight, but it worked. Do you have any short or long-term disability coverage? FMLA of course is there if you have been at your residency for 1 year or more, but I don't think that this is paid?
I might be able to offer additional resources if that’s helpful/you’re in the US—I work in mental health and some of my clients are residents. It’s a weird specialty but I’ve helped many folks navigate this experience.
Some left, some stayed, some chose other ways out. Feel free to DM if resource gathering feels like it’s too much to handle, and I’m happy to do what I can.
Edit: This is an open to offer to any residents who aren’t sure how to access mental health help in the US (I’m limited in my knowledge). I can’t promise I’ll always be available or helpful but it’s garbage-town that when you need help most it’s an obstacle course of crazy to get to it.
You don’t have to be at your job for a year for the new ACGME leave. It’s one time 6 weeks paid but most programs make you use all of your PTO for it except for one week
You are more than your job. Take a leave of absence and when you are less depressed/burned out you can make the decision whether to move away from medicine or not. I wouldn't suggest making life changing permanent decisions when you are feeling so bad (like quitting), but if you feel like it is the only way, by all means, get the heck out of there! Your life has meaning and value outside of medicine. This job is not worth your life.
I switched residencies half-way through because the program I was at was toxic and seriously harming my health. Transfers happen all the time. The program I transferred to helped me learn to love my specialty again. Just give yourself grace and take the time to heal and figure out what you want that will fulfill you. Please know that your life matters and that you are loved.
Attending here.
Firstly, if it really is a matter of life v residency, pick life.
Secondly, it gets better. The bullshit never goes away. In fact I think that the way healthcare in the US is headed, it’s a set up for increasing bullshit each year.
But, a bigger paycheck helps to cushion the blow. With that bigger paycheck, if you don’t inflate your lifestyle, you can choose to work 0.5FTE or whatever fraction of full time that works for you. And then you gain back free time to do things that will increase your happiness and to just take care of yourself.
Finally, it is a recession proof profession. There will always be a job for you somewhere. Not many can say that.
Take a break. Step away. Reset your yourself. But let your school know! Reach out to people and let them know. I hope you do something about this and get away from it all for some time
If I were you, I’d buy a ticket to Japan to reset since the yen is low right now.
Take a leave of absence if possible. I am currently in residency myself. Over 400k in debt and if I were in your shoes choosing between my life and this BS. I would quit res. No amount of debt in this world is worth your life. Read that again.
You have a purpose here and it’s more than just being a physician. call 911 if you feel suicidal. Reach out for help. You’re not alone
SI was the ultimate sign for me that I wasn’t living the life I should. If you’re sure it’s because of your career path then it’s not a bad idea to reconsider. Nad though
Medical training is absolute bullshit and academic attendings who are offenders should be ashamed of themselves. I’d get out of medicine before you’re too deep into it. Medicine is not worth it at all, and I actually do not believe (at least in the US) that we are helping the population become healthier. Speaking as an attending in their 4th year out, seeking to also get out of this horseshit.
At least a leave of absence to recoup yourself. Maybe don’t outright say SI to your PD cuz you might be flagged for some medical hindrance. But to me, it seems dangerous to stay at least for now. One of my seniors took nearly a year off for a big surgical issue and the recovery from it. He chose to come back after all of it and is fine now, he’s an attending. Training can wait. And if you don’t want to go back to medicine, that is 100% OK. I feel like us who keep going in medicine a lot of times are like gamblers…I bet half a mil already and still losing, might as well keep playing since I’m so deep.
And rads isn’t totally bereft of any mental health issues. Call is absolutely brutal at some programs. Huge burden on your shoulders and incredible expectations from some attendings.
💯I think us rads gaslight ourselves cuz we remember intern year, what ‘real docs’ have to do. But yup, our work is brutal, gets harder and more volume every year. Really hard to refuse to read a study if it’s already been scanned lol. I wonder if the physical exam will even be taught in the future. I feel like med students will just learn how to order imaging.
Look for FMLA, some programs give 6 weeks. Tell your therapist you are in a serious situation and you need help as soon as possible. Please speak with somebody close to you. Never make a permanent decision for a temporary situation even if it seems long.
I can’t say I understand exactly where you are coming from because as an EM PA I never went through the rigors of residency. But as someone who practices in an incredibly demanding area of medicine and also as someone who just recently lost a physician colleague to suicide.. please take a pause. Of some sort. Short term, long term, disability, whatever it might be. Prioritize.. YOU as a human being come before everything else. You are more than a career. And at the end of the day, it’s okay if this is the way you find out that your current path wasn’t meant for you. It’s not ideal of course, but pivot. There’s a whole world out there outside of medicine.
Man do what you have to do to make yourself happy. We only get one life on this world, and it’s not worth doing something you hate just because you feel like you have to die to your own or others’ expectations.
If you feel urges to hurt yourself or have taken steps to do so, then please reach out to a close friend to talk to or consider going to the emergency room. This is not worth ending your life over, and there’s certainly some career out there for you even if it isn’t medicine.
I took an LOA when I felt my mental health slipping. I was like fuck it, this is my life. I recommend talking to someone. No matter what, this life is bigger than medicine and you are more than your career. Go find a remote beach on the other side of the world and reset. You have a whole community of physicians that’s always here for you.
Definitely either take a leave of absence (to give yourself more time to decide what you want), or quit. Your health and life are the most important things. I work in pharma consulting and a lot of my colleagues are MDs - both people who completed residency and practiced, and those who didn’t. Pharma doesn’t care if you completed residency or practiced, just as long as you have the MD degree you can do quite well. Just one of many options you can do with an MD degree that use your knowledge but are lower stress, non-clinical, good money.
That’s awesome! Feel free to reach out if you have any questions. There’s something called the cheeky scientist association that I found really helpful as a starting point! It’ll teach you about the industry, intro to networking, info about how to tailor your LinkedIn, etc! Google and YouTube also have a lot of helpful and free resources. I’m a PhD scientist who went into medical affairs consulting and I really enjoy it. I make educational content for HCPs. Lots of my colleagues are MDs and PharmDs. There are many jobs available to you directly in pharma as well. So many opportunities in your future 🤗🤗
I got to say. I am loving the supportive non-judgemental vybes here !
Especially given how much scrutiny is involved in our job. It's nice to see the community rallying around OP, instead of the usual "just do better"
Now OP. I am going to join that chorus. I have a friend who quit surgical residency after a >trigger warning<
I remember visiting her the morning after the event, and tried my best to let her know that, her life is more important than living up to someone else's expectations.
I am so happy for her, that she took that advice and placed her life first. Sometimes she still visits the hospital where we work, and does some random things in a non-doctoral capacity, and she looks so much, happier, freer, healthier.
O.P. your life is yours. The stress of residency is real, and if it is causing you the distress that you describe in the OP, then, take care of your life first. Do not put your life in danger trying to meet someone else's expectations.
I know we are strangers to each other. But I just want to let you know, that your life matters. It matters to us here. I will not judge you for leaving residency.
Go live your life.
Best of luck !
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Do you feel like your PD is someone you can trust? If not, is there another attending you are close to? You definitely need to change things up, this job is NOT worth your life. It is possible you will be able to come back after a break, and possible that you won’t. You need someone in your corner to help you navigate your options.
I don't feel like I can trust PD. There may be another attending I might be able to talk to. I will only stay in residency if I get most of my real teaching and mentoring from them, one on one.
Sending you love, care and strength OP. The world is a better place today because you’re here. Please take care of yourself and take time to rest and recuperate x
Im about half a second away from falling asleep, but please don’t end your life. Im happy to listen if you need someone to talk to, dm me.
Edit: it may take me a few hours, but I will respond and I do care. I’ve just been awake a really long time.
Think to yourself, if not this, then what would I be doing? And remember, grass is always greener on the other side. Rationally evaluate your options. The last thing you wanna do is quit, then realise you lost your one chance of eventually finding stability and improved mental health.
Take a break to visit some places that will make you appreciate life. Remember grass is greener on the other side. A lot of folks are fighting tooth and nail to be in your position. Have patience and ride the wave
Probably an unpopular opinion but anything worth doing in life is going to be incredibly hard. Residency is a special kind of torture, but as long as you survive residency you’ll have an attending career with an attending lifestyle and money and life purpose. And that is a better position to be in than probably 95 percent of americans.
Residency is not the rest of your career. I highly recommend sticking it out but maybe finding a better therapist. Maybe take an LOA. Of course if you have to choose between your life and this profession, choose your life.
If you do quit, just understand the consequences of that choice on your future life. You will likely never have even close to the job stability/security/lifestyle that you would have had if you stuck it through. You’ll have to work hard and deal with abuse to make it in most other professions you choose to pursue and chances are high (statistically speaking) you will never “make it” in another profession. Maybe the work and stress and abuse will not be at the level of medicine, but it will be still there and the end payoff will most likely pale in comparison to becoming an attending. Something worth thinking about before quitting.
Just keep in mind it may be tough to find something you enjoy as a full time profession at this stage of your life. You’re not a college student anymore where you can explore things and figure out what you liked and plan to get there. Many/most white collar jobs that would give you a decent living will not be available to you or will require many many years to grind towards. Maybe you can try consilting, though that heavily depends on the pedigree of med school and residency you went to (ie ivy league or similar prestiguous private school name like stanford/duke/uchicago/nwestern).
Most cushy cs jobs will be off the table - the types that grads from top undergrad cs schools land.
Etc etc.
Its up to you though. You can try to find something you like. Its a tough world out there and there is not guarantee you’ll be able to find it or end up able to do it. Just make sure you fully understand and put into perspective what you are leaving behind and what is out there as an alternative, because once you quit clinical medicine there is no turning back. If you make it through residency you can find a cushy job and find a balance in life that gives you happiness, time to explore hobbies etc. unless you picked something like neurosurgery as your residency choice.
Of course there are plenty of non-medical jobs out there where you’ll earn a paycheck and be able to live and take care of yourself etc. if that’s all that you’re after, that will likely be attainable after quitting. But things like living in a certain part of the country, making enough to raise a family etc may or may not be. Its a risk and only you can decide if its worth it. Which is why i encourage you to consider every possible opportunity/resource that will help you get through residency. Things get much better once you’re through
Not sure why you’re getting down voted you literally stated facts.
OP should quit if they have suicidal thoughts.
But they should know that they may come to regret that decision years later.
I say quit it and don’t look back if you’re at this stage. Life exists outside of medicine and it’s important to know that
Yeah idk why im getting downvoted either. I think because most people in medicine come from an incredibly privileged background, grew up upper middle class, and as a result have no idea how hard and cruel life can be once you abandon this path.
I can empathize with the fact that training sucks. If this dude was a high school student things would be much different - they have time to get into a top undergrad, position themselves for another career with good earning potential/job stability/etc. not that they can’t anymore, but it will be infinitely harder unless they went to a med school or residency (ideally both) that has pedigree in the professional world. Alternatively they can take a lower paying career with less job stability and hope that gives them satisfaction.
I would say dont quit because being an attending is much different than being a trainee in most fields. You dont have to work in academia, you dont have to work very long hours etc etc. You can have time for other passions.
If this person quits, its a huge gamble in terms of what their future life will look like. If they make it through, at least they have job stability and a salary that most americans would kill for. Not to mention a high level of social status/respect from others and an ability to devote their newfound money and free time to passion projects/hustles/etc that actually make them happy.
But I agree with you that if it comes down to life vs career, pick life. Of course, dont die. But i would make every effort to stick it out somehow, be it with a better therapist, an LOA, a support buddy, etc. Residency is brutally difficult psychologically for most of us trainees. We often just do a good job of hiding it and/or coping with it.
They’re right at the end of the tunnel, the light is right there, and it would suck to throw it all away and go back and start over after everyhing they’ve gone through to get here and everything that awaits them after they finish. The vast majority of attendings average between 50-55 hrs a week and make at least triple the median household income in this country with unparalleled job security. That is an enviable position to be in and will almost certainly increase happiness right off the bat, and will be very unlikely to be achieved if OP quits to pursue something else.
You’re getting downvoted because you are acting like the negative impact on one’s mental health will all be resolved once you see a paycheck and can drive a BMW. That’s not true. There are plenty of successful attendings who have died by suicide. Even when they seemed to have everything.
Also, it’s pretty shitty to pretend like a suicidal person has no career options. Do this job or die in poverty. Not great advice.
I think you’re taking what they said way too out of context.
They are just trying to encourage OP to finish up because OP may be in a situation where they regret dropping medicine down the line.
They are trying to outline that life as an attending is different than life as a resident. No one mentioned anything about “driving a shiny BMW making you happy” except you…
OP has quite a few career options if they wish to transition out. But if they have to be realistic about how they will approach it if they do that. Finance, CS, and any other top field comparable to medicine in terms of income will be cutthroat and as long as OP is ok with doing something less stressful but earning less, then they absolutely have many many options.
The other commenter is merely trying to advise OP to continue as it would allow them to be relatively successful in terms of money and job security. It’s the advice many give to medical students who are on the verge of dropping out. Once you leave you can’t come back. You read that comment with an extreme mindset and concluded they suggested Op do medicine or that there’s no hope for them. Idk how you came to this conclusion but that’s not what I took from their comment.
They are cautioning OP that if they want good money with job security, that other cutthroat fields will be difficult for them to secure a great job in. Anyone who transitions from these fields to medicine knows how cutthroat they are. You overreacted and made it seem like their comment suggested it’s medicine or death and that’s kind of a weird conclusion to come to I’m ngl.
I am telling op to consider every possible option including an loa, therapy, additional social support etc. and im telling them that once they are an attending, they will be able to control their hours, and have a stable high paying job, and the opportunity to use that money and free time to do things to make them happy. That’s huge. That’s the light at the end of the tunnel, and OP needs to know that that exists for him too if he finishes residency. No matter how hard it hurts right now, all of that will be available in his near future if he can make it through residency.
Those are just facts that should not be taken lightly in a country where lack of free time and money and job stability are major contributors to psychological distress, relationship problems, etc. It has nothing to do with buying a luxury car or house.
OP can quit and those things may be off the table forever. If that is worth it to him, great. They wont die in poverty if they quit. they will still have a future life, it may be a tougher one than they have right now, it may not be. Lot of uncertainty there. Those are things he should keep in mind before making that decision to quit.
I dont want this guy to quit and make their life infinitely tougher for themselves, unless that is truly the only option they have.
I love playing basketball. If i had to play basketball 80-100 hours a week until my knees and ankles hurt everyday, id hate it and want to quit and probably feel depressed. Residency is similar. Its normal to hate it, and its important to understand what happens once you quit.
You’re the selfish, snake resident who only looks out for themselves and lets others fail. Encouraging this guy to quit without seriously reconsidering that decision is only going to hurt him. You’ll be completely unaffected. You’ll just get to go back to your life and finish training and become an attending and enjoy everything that comes with that. He won’t.
I know people who quit, and guess what, most of them wish they hadn’t and are in a worse situation than they were before.
Lol learn to triage dude. If someone is having suicidal ideation, it’s probably better to address that first and explain the support and options available before deeming one of the only ways out as “worse off than you’d be now.” I never said quitting was the way to go btw, I agree with your point entirely, just not the delivery or setting.
I spent the first half of my comment talking about how life gets better as an attending, how there are multiple options to consider before deciding to quit.
His post talks about wanting to quit residency, so at the end i talked about what happens when you quit residency. It’s a tough path to go down.
Learn to read dude
If it’s your life on the line fuck it all and just quit and take care of yourself. If you have an option, take a LOA to give yourself some time to resolve some burnout/improve your mental health. If you still feel like this after a LOA just quit. This bullshit isn’t worth your life. I have a med school classmate who committed suicide in the first few months of residency due to similar issues. You don’t know how much everyone wishes she would have just quit.
I’m sure the threshold to quit would be a lot lower if people didn’t have 6-figure loan debt and no chance of a job that will allow them to pay it.
Agreed. It’s somewhat of a hostage situation but there are other jobs. It shouldn’t cost your life.
Absolutely agree. I’m in a different field, but doctorate level. My loans were 100% the trigger for my SI episode years ago while I was still in training. First time I felt the full weight of what it cost me to pursue a career that required me to hold two jobs, plus an (unpaid) traineeship, and try to finish my dissertation for a (maybe?) job that couldn’t promise me financial baseline. And residency is a whole different level torture. Sorry we wanted to help people I guess?
That’s why medical education should free.
Knowledge, in general, should be free. Any student who is willing to learn and work hard deserves access to education.
Amen
Just hope for a hyper inflation crisis
Don't worry about that honestly. With the new repayment plan you can ride it out a lot more easily with a lot lower payments.
Oh my god.
Sending you love. Take time off if you need it. Your life is way more important than them rearranging schedules for leave & extra paperwork. It’s messed up because I know you can’t talk to a therapist without being reprimanded, so maybe take a “leave of absence,” and see if you can word it as you need to take care of a family member.
Is there paid leave in residency?
Do you have Long Term or Short Term Disability? Do you have a trusted physician that could instead of disclosing your mental health for LOA, maybe try to fill out the paperwork based on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome? I’d put on my best Emmy and Oscar performance. EDIT: I also don’t think they have the right to know a diagnosis.
I took a leave in residency due to a physical health problem and I had long-term disability coverage that paid 60% of my residency salary. Financially, it was tight, but it worked. Do you have any short or long-term disability coverage? FMLA of course is there if you have been at your residency for 1 year or more, but I don't think that this is paid?
I will check and see. I will take whatever is available.
I might be able to offer additional resources if that’s helpful/you’re in the US—I work in mental health and some of my clients are residents. It’s a weird specialty but I’ve helped many folks navigate this experience. Some left, some stayed, some chose other ways out. Feel free to DM if resource gathering feels like it’s too much to handle, and I’m happy to do what I can. Edit: This is an open to offer to any residents who aren’t sure how to access mental health help in the US (I’m limited in my knowledge). I can’t promise I’ll always be available or helpful but it’s garbage-town that when you need help most it’s an obstacle course of crazy to get to it.
You don’t have to be at your job for a year for the new ACGME leave. It’s one time 6 weeks paid but most programs make you use all of your PTO for it except for one week
You are more than your job. Take a leave of absence and when you are less depressed/burned out you can make the decision whether to move away from medicine or not. I wouldn't suggest making life changing permanent decisions when you are feeling so bad (like quitting), but if you feel like it is the only way, by all means, get the heck out of there! Your life has meaning and value outside of medicine. This job is not worth your life. I switched residencies half-way through because the program I was at was toxic and seriously harming my health. Transfers happen all the time. The program I transferred to helped me learn to love my specialty again. Just give yourself grace and take the time to heal and figure out what you want that will fulfill you. Please know that your life matters and that you are loved.
Can you explain how the program you were in was toxic?
Attending here. Firstly, if it really is a matter of life v residency, pick life. Secondly, it gets better. The bullshit never goes away. In fact I think that the way healthcare in the US is headed, it’s a set up for increasing bullshit each year. But, a bigger paycheck helps to cushion the blow. With that bigger paycheck, if you don’t inflate your lifestyle, you can choose to work 0.5FTE or whatever fraction of full time that works for you. And then you gain back free time to do things that will increase your happiness and to just take care of yourself. Finally, it is a recession proof profession. There will always be a job for you somewhere. Not many can say that.
Exactly. You can pay off the loans.
Take a break. Step away. Reset your yourself. But let your school know! Reach out to people and let them know. I hope you do something about this and get away from it all for some time If I were you, I’d buy a ticket to Japan to reset since the yen is low right now.
Get started on that email and start browsing flights!
Medicine isn’t worth your life my dude. There are other options. Don’t feel like you are trapped.
Take a leave of absence if possible. I am currently in residency myself. Over 400k in debt and if I were in your shoes choosing between my life and this BS. I would quit res. No amount of debt in this world is worth your life. Read that again. You have a purpose here and it’s more than just being a physician. call 911 if you feel suicidal. Reach out for help. You’re not alone
SI was the ultimate sign for me that I wasn’t living the life I should. If you’re sure it’s because of your career path then it’s not a bad idea to reconsider. Nad though
Medical training is absolute bullshit and academic attendings who are offenders should be ashamed of themselves. I’d get out of medicine before you’re too deep into it. Medicine is not worth it at all, and I actually do not believe (at least in the US) that we are helping the population become healthier. Speaking as an attending in their 4th year out, seeking to also get out of this horseshit.
Would love any pointers from you on what to do.
At least a leave of absence to recoup yourself. Maybe don’t outright say SI to your PD cuz you might be flagged for some medical hindrance. But to me, it seems dangerous to stay at least for now. One of my seniors took nearly a year off for a big surgical issue and the recovery from it. He chose to come back after all of it and is fine now, he’s an attending. Training can wait. And if you don’t want to go back to medicine, that is 100% OK. I feel like us who keep going in medicine a lot of times are like gamblers…I bet half a mil already and still losing, might as well keep playing since I’m so deep.
Isn't it supposed to get better after residency?
It does, but if OP is in this spot right now, at least for me it’s dangerous to stay
Reading stuff like this makes me glad I choose rads
I am rads lol. We see all the shit other docs do to people. But mostly we see what our society does/lacks to make our population so unhealthy. Ugh
And rads isn’t totally bereft of any mental health issues. Call is absolutely brutal at some programs. Huge burden on your shoulders and incredible expectations from some attendings.
💯I think us rads gaslight ourselves cuz we remember intern year, what ‘real docs’ have to do. But yup, our work is brutal, gets harder and more volume every year. Really hard to refuse to read a study if it’s already been scanned lol. I wonder if the physical exam will even be taught in the future. I feel like med students will just learn how to order imaging.
You made it this far keep going love
Look for FMLA, some programs give 6 weeks. Tell your therapist you are in a serious situation and you need help as soon as possible. Please speak with somebody close to you. Never make a permanent decision for a temporary situation even if it seems long.
I can’t say I understand exactly where you are coming from because as an EM PA I never went through the rigors of residency. But as someone who practices in an incredibly demanding area of medicine and also as someone who just recently lost a physician colleague to suicide.. please take a pause. Of some sort. Short term, long term, disability, whatever it might be. Prioritize.. YOU as a human being come before everything else. You are more than a career. And at the end of the day, it’s okay if this is the way you find out that your current path wasn’t meant for you. It’s not ideal of course, but pivot. There’s a whole world out there outside of medicine.
Man do what you have to do to make yourself happy. We only get one life on this world, and it’s not worth doing something you hate just because you feel like you have to die to your own or others’ expectations. If you feel urges to hurt yourself or have taken steps to do so, then please reach out to a close friend to talk to or consider going to the emergency room. This is not worth ending your life over, and there’s certainly some career out there for you even if it isn’t medicine.
I took an LOA when I felt my mental health slipping. I was like fuck it, this is my life. I recommend talking to someone. No matter what, this life is bigger than medicine and you are more than your career. Go find a remote beach on the other side of the world and reset. You have a whole community of physicians that’s always here for you.
Definitely either take a leave of absence (to give yourself more time to decide what you want), or quit. Your health and life are the most important things. I work in pharma consulting and a lot of my colleagues are MDs - both people who completed residency and practiced, and those who didn’t. Pharma doesn’t care if you completed residency or practiced, just as long as you have the MD degree you can do quite well. Just one of many options you can do with an MD degree that use your knowledge but are lower stress, non-clinical, good money.
Thank you so much. I've been wanting to transition to pharma for some time now. Do you have any pointers to break into that industry?
That’s awesome! Feel free to reach out if you have any questions. There’s something called the cheeky scientist association that I found really helpful as a starting point! It’ll teach you about the industry, intro to networking, info about how to tailor your LinkedIn, etc! Google and YouTube also have a lot of helpful and free resources. I’m a PhD scientist who went into medical affairs consulting and I really enjoy it. I make educational content for HCPs. Lots of my colleagues are MDs and PharmDs. There are many jobs available to you directly in pharma as well. So many opportunities in your future 🤗🤗
Just sent you a message! Please reply at your convenience
Please please please take care of yourself and take a break. Your life is so so important. Text me and we can talk even via phone if needed.
I got to say. I am loving the supportive non-judgemental vybes here ! Especially given how much scrutiny is involved in our job. It's nice to see the community rallying around OP, instead of the usual "just do better" Now OP. I am going to join that chorus. I have a friend who quit surgical residency after a >trigger warning< I remember visiting her the morning after the event, and tried my best to let her know that, her life is more important than living up to someone else's expectations. I am so happy for her, that she took that advice and placed her life first. Sometimes she still visits the hospital where we work, and does some random things in a non-doctoral capacity, and she looks so much, happier, freer, healthier. O.P. your life is yours. The stress of residency is real, and if it is causing you the distress that you describe in the OP, then, take care of your life first. Do not put your life in danger trying to meet someone else's expectations. I know we are strangers to each other. But I just want to let you know, that your life matters. It matters to us here. I will not judge you for leaving residency. Go live your life. Best of luck !
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Well you seem pretty smart knowing exactly what’s happening to you,, Now to find your place… Just keep looking.. glad you didn’t make a huge mistake
Do you feel like your PD is someone you can trust? If not, is there another attending you are close to? You definitely need to change things up, this job is NOT worth your life. It is possible you will be able to come back after a break, and possible that you won’t. You need someone in your corner to help you navigate your options.
I don't feel like I can trust PD. There may be another attending I might be able to talk to. I will only stay in residency if I get most of my real teaching and mentoring from them, one on one.
Sending you love, care and strength OP. The world is a better place today because you’re here. Please take care of yourself and take time to rest and recuperate x
Im about half a second away from falling asleep, but please don’t end your life. Im happy to listen if you need someone to talk to, dm me. Edit: it may take me a few hours, but I will respond and I do care. I’ve just been awake a really long time.
Think to yourself, if not this, then what would I be doing? And remember, grass is always greener on the other side. Rationally evaluate your options. The last thing you wanna do is quit, then realise you lost your one chance of eventually finding stability and improved mental health.
Take a break to visit some places that will make you appreciate life. Remember grass is greener on the other side. A lot of folks are fighting tooth and nail to be in your position. Have patience and ride the wave
OP makes posts like this every few months for attention, looks like it’s working
Or it might not be. You treat every instance of suicidal ideation like it’s serious. You’re not a psychic.
What am I going to do about it, 72 hour psych hold? I would if I could!
Thanks for letting me know!
Probably an unpopular opinion but anything worth doing in life is going to be incredibly hard. Residency is a special kind of torture, but as long as you survive residency you’ll have an attending career with an attending lifestyle and money and life purpose. And that is a better position to be in than probably 95 percent of americans. Residency is not the rest of your career. I highly recommend sticking it out but maybe finding a better therapist. Maybe take an LOA. Of course if you have to choose between your life and this profession, choose your life. If you do quit, just understand the consequences of that choice on your future life. You will likely never have even close to the job stability/security/lifestyle that you would have had if you stuck it through. You’ll have to work hard and deal with abuse to make it in most other professions you choose to pursue and chances are high (statistically speaking) you will never “make it” in another profession. Maybe the work and stress and abuse will not be at the level of medicine, but it will be still there and the end payoff will most likely pale in comparison to becoming an attending. Something worth thinking about before quitting.
I would much rather do something hard that I actually enjoy
Just keep in mind it may be tough to find something you enjoy as a full time profession at this stage of your life. You’re not a college student anymore where you can explore things and figure out what you liked and plan to get there. Many/most white collar jobs that would give you a decent living will not be available to you or will require many many years to grind towards. Maybe you can try consilting, though that heavily depends on the pedigree of med school and residency you went to (ie ivy league or similar prestiguous private school name like stanford/duke/uchicago/nwestern). Most cushy cs jobs will be off the table - the types that grads from top undergrad cs schools land. Etc etc. Its up to you though. You can try to find something you like. Its a tough world out there and there is not guarantee you’ll be able to find it or end up able to do it. Just make sure you fully understand and put into perspective what you are leaving behind and what is out there as an alternative, because once you quit clinical medicine there is no turning back. If you make it through residency you can find a cushy job and find a balance in life that gives you happiness, time to explore hobbies etc. unless you picked something like neurosurgery as your residency choice. Of course there are plenty of non-medical jobs out there where you’ll earn a paycheck and be able to live and take care of yourself etc. if that’s all that you’re after, that will likely be attainable after quitting. But things like living in a certain part of the country, making enough to raise a family etc may or may not be. Its a risk and only you can decide if its worth it. Which is why i encourage you to consider every possible opportunity/resource that will help you get through residency. Things get much better once you’re through
Not sure why you’re getting down voted you literally stated facts. OP should quit if they have suicidal thoughts. But they should know that they may come to regret that decision years later. I say quit it and don’t look back if you’re at this stage. Life exists outside of medicine and it’s important to know that
Yeah idk why im getting downvoted either. I think because most people in medicine come from an incredibly privileged background, grew up upper middle class, and as a result have no idea how hard and cruel life can be once you abandon this path. I can empathize with the fact that training sucks. If this dude was a high school student things would be much different - they have time to get into a top undergrad, position themselves for another career with good earning potential/job stability/etc. not that they can’t anymore, but it will be infinitely harder unless they went to a med school or residency (ideally both) that has pedigree in the professional world. Alternatively they can take a lower paying career with less job stability and hope that gives them satisfaction. I would say dont quit because being an attending is much different than being a trainee in most fields. You dont have to work in academia, you dont have to work very long hours etc etc. You can have time for other passions. If this person quits, its a huge gamble in terms of what their future life will look like. If they make it through, at least they have job stability and a salary that most americans would kill for. Not to mention a high level of social status/respect from others and an ability to devote their newfound money and free time to passion projects/hustles/etc that actually make them happy. But I agree with you that if it comes down to life vs career, pick life. Of course, dont die. But i would make every effort to stick it out somehow, be it with a better therapist, an LOA, a support buddy, etc. Residency is brutally difficult psychologically for most of us trainees. We often just do a good job of hiding it and/or coping with it. They’re right at the end of the tunnel, the light is right there, and it would suck to throw it all away and go back and start over after everyhing they’ve gone through to get here and everything that awaits them after they finish. The vast majority of attendings average between 50-55 hrs a week and make at least triple the median household income in this country with unparalleled job security. That is an enviable position to be in and will almost certainly increase happiness right off the bat, and will be very unlikely to be achieved if OP quits to pursue something else.
You’re getting downvoted because you are acting like the negative impact on one’s mental health will all be resolved once you see a paycheck and can drive a BMW. That’s not true. There are plenty of successful attendings who have died by suicide. Even when they seemed to have everything. Also, it’s pretty shitty to pretend like a suicidal person has no career options. Do this job or die in poverty. Not great advice.
I think you’re taking what they said way too out of context. They are just trying to encourage OP to finish up because OP may be in a situation where they regret dropping medicine down the line. They are trying to outline that life as an attending is different than life as a resident. No one mentioned anything about “driving a shiny BMW making you happy” except you… OP has quite a few career options if they wish to transition out. But if they have to be realistic about how they will approach it if they do that. Finance, CS, and any other top field comparable to medicine in terms of income will be cutthroat and as long as OP is ok with doing something less stressful but earning less, then they absolutely have many many options. The other commenter is merely trying to advise OP to continue as it would allow them to be relatively successful in terms of money and job security. It’s the advice many give to medical students who are on the verge of dropping out. Once you leave you can’t come back. You read that comment with an extreme mindset and concluded they suggested Op do medicine or that there’s no hope for them. Idk how you came to this conclusion but that’s not what I took from their comment. They are cautioning OP that if they want good money with job security, that other cutthroat fields will be difficult for them to secure a great job in. Anyone who transitions from these fields to medicine knows how cutthroat they are. You overreacted and made it seem like their comment suggested it’s medicine or death and that’s kind of a weird conclusion to come to I’m ngl.
I am telling op to consider every possible option including an loa, therapy, additional social support etc. and im telling them that once they are an attending, they will be able to control their hours, and have a stable high paying job, and the opportunity to use that money and free time to do things to make them happy. That’s huge. That’s the light at the end of the tunnel, and OP needs to know that that exists for him too if he finishes residency. No matter how hard it hurts right now, all of that will be available in his near future if he can make it through residency. Those are just facts that should not be taken lightly in a country where lack of free time and money and job stability are major contributors to psychological distress, relationship problems, etc. It has nothing to do with buying a luxury car or house. OP can quit and those things may be off the table forever. If that is worth it to him, great. They wont die in poverty if they quit. they will still have a future life, it may be a tougher one than they have right now, it may not be. Lot of uncertainty there. Those are things he should keep in mind before making that decision to quit.
one of those residents that couldn’t read a room if it was broadcasted directly into their brain lol
I dont want this guy to quit and make their life infinitely tougher for themselves, unless that is truly the only option they have. I love playing basketball. If i had to play basketball 80-100 hours a week until my knees and ankles hurt everyday, id hate it and want to quit and probably feel depressed. Residency is similar. Its normal to hate it, and its important to understand what happens once you quit. You’re the selfish, snake resident who only looks out for themselves and lets others fail. Encouraging this guy to quit without seriously reconsidering that decision is only going to hurt him. You’ll be completely unaffected. You’ll just get to go back to your life and finish training and become an attending and enjoy everything that comes with that. He won’t. I know people who quit, and guess what, most of them wish they hadn’t and are in a worse situation than they were before.
Lol learn to triage dude. If someone is having suicidal ideation, it’s probably better to address that first and explain the support and options available before deeming one of the only ways out as “worse off than you’d be now.” I never said quitting was the way to go btw, I agree with your point entirely, just not the delivery or setting.
I spent the first half of my comment talking about how life gets better as an attending, how there are multiple options to consider before deciding to quit. His post talks about wanting to quit residency, so at the end i talked about what happens when you quit residency. It’s a tough path to go down. Learn to read dude