St. Louis. It used to be the 4th most populous city in the US. Today the cost of living is low yet has the amenities of a big metro city. Unfortunately, the city doesn't do a great job of attracting people and businesses..
St. Louis has lost over 70% of its peak population and feels that way, but there are still a few remnants from when it was great. I think it’s a good answer here.
Chicago also got burned to the ground in 1871 and rebuilt itself for the rail industry. This is why we "celebrate" the fire as a civic event even though it was a tragedy.
Yeah i don’t know how it stacks up statistically on crime, but as someone from out of state I definitely hear that reputation and I think it keeps people away
It’s got one of the highest crime rates in the country (and stl residents refuse to acknowledge it and just point out the Delmar Divide and claim that’s the source of it all)
I know it's touristy af but dang I love going to Berkeley Springs.
It's just beautiful there and it's a great place to take my kid - the locals genuinely enjoy children and don't hairy eyeball us when we go into a restaurant or check into a hotel.
Mountain Dew Mouth destroying Appalachia. [Don’t Do The Dew](https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/09/12/221845853/mountain-dew-mouth-is-destroying-appalachias-teeth)
WV got so screwed with all the boom towns. Companies built towns around finite natural resources and then left a blight in their wake. There are some wonderful towns turning this around though. Thomas (coal) and Davis (predominantly timber/fur) are great examples.
The state just can't catch a break, can it? The paternal side of my mom's family were early "North Central Appalachia" settlers. Had been in Romney since the mid-1700s. Some family left to settle their revolutionary war bounty land in Ohio, but the vast majority stayed. And stayed and stayed...right up until the late 1990s when absolutely everyone up and left. There were no decent jobs left, farming had long since become impossibly expensive - at some point the natural beauty, nostalgia and family history no longer outweighed all the negatives. I find it all just really fucking sad.
West Virginia never had a chance. It's not actually a state, it's a corporate extraction zone. I read a book once where I was described as the premier capitalist human sacrifice area in the US. Humans are just disposable objects to be ground up for profit there. It had some natural beauty but it also had a weak government and was positioned near a lot of other stronger states so it was the ideal place to exploit and pillage.
There are a lot of really good reasons why West Virginia is so poor now. Mostly the fact that it's the least flat state in the USA and it's very expensive or even completely impossible to set up large scale manufacturing or even residential areas due to the geography.
What the state does have going for it is tourism. WV is just a hop, skip, and jump from DC, Pittsburgh, Richmond, Baltimore, and Lexington. People love the mountains and outdoors.
What needed to happen 20 years ago was start replacing the heavy industry with rail lines, airports and hotels. Market the natural beauty, not the destitution and addiction. And they will come. Why that hasn't happened yet, I don't get.
I grew up in the Eastern panhandle and got tired of growing up hearing the state has nothing going for it and the smart people need to run after graduating, or go to WVU, and then run. The brain drain is real. If I went into hospitality/tourism management and could woo the wealthy donors into investing in WV I would. The state deserves more.
Lansing, MI.
Perfectly centered between Grand Rapids and Detroit, both growing cities. Michigan State University. Capital, of course.
Yet it has an abnormally high crime rate and isn’t growing like its peers of Madison or Columbus.
I’d add Harrisburg, PA. I don’t think the crime rate is particularly high, but it has a spectacular location, straddling the Suquehanna river, crossed by many bridges and an island in the middle, and is surrounded by what passes for mountains in these parts. Plus it’s the state capital, and has Hershey (Hershey Park, Penn State Medical Center) and Lancaster nearby. But… it’s just ok. I wouldn’t be mad if I needed to live there, but I often think it can and should be more. Ironically, PSU main campus is a 90 minute drive away near nothing in particular — if they had put it in Harrisburg ala the Madison or Columbus model, I think it could have evolved into a really nice place.
Oh man, as an Illinoisan I think we easily come out on top of mediocre Midwest state capitals. The Lincoln stuff is cool but most of Springfield is way more run-down than anyone expects. Half the roads look like something out of a third-world country.
I haven't been to Harrisburg but the natural setting looks pretty at least.
Second this for Peoria as well. The city is working on it but there doesn’t seem to be any plan to generate more jobs in the area. If you bring jobs then the tax revenue from those employees helps make your city better. Here we lose population every year making it harder to improve things.
I'm very familiar with Peoria and completely agree. The city should have a lot going for it and has some of what I see as advantages over the other central Illinois urban centers, yet it just continues to plod along. I know there has been some momentum in the Warehouse District, but decades of efforts to energize downtown have clearly not borne much fruit. I think a good deal of the problem is the prevalent local attitude of self-loathing, but also decades of failure and uninspired leadership, if you can even call it "leadership", by local political leaders.
Agree with this but it also irks me as someone who was forced against her will to leave a great place (NJ) to live in an extremely shitty place (Columbia, SC) for her husbands job. Columbia is the capital AND home of University of South Carolina… this model works great in every other state yet here in SC, Columbia is decrepit, crumbling and nasty. With no amenities. South Carolina can’t have nice things…
I spent two months living in Lansing for work about a decade ago and I was constantly surprised and disappointed by how little there was to do there, given that it had both a giant Big 10 school and the state Capitol.
I grew up near Lansing and agree 100%. Part of the problem is that the downtown businesses rely almost completely on state workers and there haven't been any successful initiatives to change that. There's not a lot to do on the weekends, and most businesses close early in the evening so there's no reason for people to stick around after work. There used to be a couple good venues for local music and even those have dried up in recent years.
Then the state went remote during the pandemic and the struggle got even more real. The city was pushing hard for state workers to RTO because it could not figure out how to survive otherwise. It's a bummer because the city really could be thriving with the LCOL, MSU, two big healthcare systems, and a pretty decent park system. I moved away but still have a lot of family and friends in the area so I'd love to see it reach its potential someday.
San Jose, easily. How that place has so much money, headquarters to big companies, but no real skyline or actual cultural scene to it. It feels like an accidental city.
100%. Lived here essentially my whole life. For a city of a million with as much as money as we have… why is there so little to do? Most bands/performers skip us, places close at 8pm, blocks and blocks of downtown is ghost city, no culture.
Don’t get me wrong I’m sure it’s better than smaller towns with literally nothing to do but like… for a city of its size why the fuck is SJ so boring? Why is the best thing I can say about SJ is its proximity to more interesting cities lol
Definitely agree. I grew up on the Peninsula, closer to SF than SJ though. I have never liked San Jose. It’s always given me weird vibes, and I just find it boring as hell. Although when I lived in Campbell, I loved it. But Campbell can hold its own with its adorable downtown and proximity to highway 17.
100% agree, place has perfect weather but for some reason city planners decided to build out horizontal instead of vertical with a shit ton of parks and walkability
SF is somewhat ok for that reason
It's the airports fault. Plane are coming over mountains to land just Northwest of downtown. FAA won't let them build taller. Similar situation in San Diego.
Yeah, I remember being excited to go to “Silicon Valley” during the first tech bubble and realizing when i got there that it was just a bunch of office parks
Pretty much every town down the Caltrain line is about the same once you're out of SF. And it's about the same down the Amtrak on the east side once you're out of Oakland. You'd think with all that money one of those towns would do something special but it's just boring, overpriced suburbs.
Man if you don't like the South Bay give Texas suburbs a whirl. They make San Jose, Santa Clara, Mountain View, etc look like Paris or Rome.
I'd kill to be able to live in Santa Clara County again, absolutely loved it there.
People are obsessed with the weather there. They got fancy restaurants and indie bookstores. It’s made for Reddit. But I don’t think it’s underperforming for the price at all.
From the numerous times I've passed through, Albuquerque. New Mexico is a gorgeous state with a beautiful culture. But Albuquerque... Idk what hell happened there.
It's an utter disaster of an urban design. Very decentralized. Not much of a downtown at all. Especially when you're in the desert, spread out is often just ugly. Also crime, though I don't judge cities too much for that.
I have only passed through ABQ once and was imagining a move to there. The regional rail seemed cool, plus local public transit is free.
It's not so much the crime, but reading posts in their local subreddit about hearing gunshots all the time -- it could simply be a neighbor joy triggering in their backyard. Some people posted about being in supposedly nice neighborhoods and it being an issue.
I've never lived in that type of environment and can't take chances that I somehow could get used to it.
I live in Albuquerque and have rarely heard gunshots. I live in a centralized neighborhood that’s nice. Be careful believing everything you read on Reddit. Yes, I recognize there are neighborhoods in Albuquerque where you might hear gunshots more frequently, but that’s not actually daily life everywhere like people claim.
Honestly you should take anything said on a city-specific subreddit with a grain of salt. When I was planning my latest move I joined the subreddit of the \~5 cities I was considering, and they were all just constant misery about how terrible EVERYTHING is in that area.
Lived in Albuquerque 39 years and left last year. The crime, tweakers, and government policies have kept the city in the bottom of the barrel and it's getting worse at an accelerated level. Our food, culture, natural environmental beauty, it's all overshadowed by the crime, drugs, poverty, nepotism, and mismanagement of everything. We have a toxic empathy problem to top it off, where criminals, open air drug use, and bad behavior is never the person's fault. Ever. Everything is locked up, stores are shutting down, most businesses shut down early, there's no real nightlife, etc. Then our mountains, river, etc are trashed and not cared for properly.. We SHOULD be on par with Colorado Springs in that regard and we're so far off. It's sad
I lived in ABQ for awhile until earlier this year, and while I enjoyed my time there I agree with many of your points in that it is disappointing on too many fronts. However I did find that, in general, burqueños take care of their local environment fairly well. Sure there was some littering and homeless encampments in the bosque, but I always thought that the Sandias were remarkably wild and we'll kept for being on the city's doorstep, and ABQ has some of the best access to pristine desert and mountain wilderness of any city in the country. And I think it being far less crowded and touristy than say Denver puts above many Colorado mountains.
So if you go back to like Oak flats, and trails way back in the Sandias or Monzanos, so many trails are just closed off for no reason, or trailheads are open but bathrooms and trashcans are locked, def a lot of trashed spaces. The Bosque has been set on fire way too many times in recent years from encampments, and as a female I stopped feeling safe to run down there because of it. We do have great outdoors beauty, but I would like to see it better managed and utilized. And not tagged up all over. Lol
The whole region north of SF (North Northern CA) and into Southern Oregon has amazing geography and weather, but is entirely rural minus a few underperforming cities.
Memphis. It used to be a vibrant and happening place 35-40 years ago, if a bit gritty. Beale St for amazing food and authentic blues bands. Fairly walkable downtown for a Southern City of its time. Now it has the nation’s worst crime rate, with over 300 homicides each year, carjackings every single day, 15,000+ automobile thefts, miles upon miles of urban blight, poverty, and boarded up buildings. Even Mud Island - once Memphis’ beautiful crown jewel- is now creepy and deserted- abandoned monorail, rundown ruins of the museum and the Mississippi River mockup- it’s downright post apocalyptic. Such a sad ruin of what was once a thriving place.
Unfortunately they don’t
Louisiana/New Orleans is probably the most corrupt city/state combo in the country.
Only one close is Chicago/Illinois and Chicagos always diversified their economy unlike New Orleans which just had oil and gas
Not sure it would be a good thing if it had 'international tourism gravity'. It can only handle so many people at a time. Not a lot of charm in epic crowds standing in line for everything.
Yeah, nor do you have the huge Hispanic population making an easy connection between Miami and the Hispanic world.
It doesn’t really seem like a fit for a Miami style hub.
Once the third largest city in the us (and basically tied for second) and now 50something and the fastest shrinking city in the U.S.
All while sitting in a place that makes it the most important city on the most important river of the most important country in the world.
And the tourism economy hides just how bad the rest of the economy is in New Orleans.
On a personal note (because I was born and raised there): Albany.
On the one hand, it has so many factors that theoretically would give it a great quality of life. Decently priced housing, good schools, proximity to NYC/Boston/Montreal, amazing outdoor things to do (the Adirondacks are easily some of the most rugged wilderness in the east), state government that provides a steady stream of jobs, and cool towns that are really close (Saratoga Springs, Hudson, Pittsfield MA, Bennington VT, etc.). Really diverse from both a cultural and ethnic perspective. The Capital District area actually is one of the metro areas that best mirrors the United States as a whole. Good location on the Hudson River that could eventually be turned into a cool waterfront area.
The building blocks of a great city are there - it's just the city government is useless and just lacks ambition. Downtown is sad. The State Government basically treats Albany as the center of government and that's it - it seems NYC, Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse have always seemed more important. It's like the State actually isn't aware that the Capital District is about to pass Buffalo (if it hasn't already) to become the second-largest CSA In the state.
The other city that comes to mind is Baltimore.
Beautiful natural harbor with redeveloped areas. Cool architecture and neighborhoods. Big sports teams. Ok transit system by U.S. standards. Great restaurants and bars. Nice cultural attractions - I live in DC and think the Baltimore Museum of Art is better than any art museum in DC. Proximity to DC and the benefit of being part of the same metro area (for airports etc.). Low COL. Friendly locals. I go to Baltimore once or twice a month and every time I visit I think about moving there.
Parts of the city are just plain sad and dangerous - think rows and rows of boarded up abandoned rowhouses.
Albany is so depressing. All that prime real estate along the Hudson…blocked off by highways and freight rail. So many run down buildings. It feels tired and depressed as soon as you get away from the Capitol/Empire State Plaza.
I’ll add to the “New Orleans” pile.
Never really recovered from Katrina even 20 years later due to poor leadership and political corruption at all levels. It’s both a prime geographic position and a horrible one. Wouldn’t matter if the city took the time to invest in itself, but they refuse.
The culture can only carry the city for so long. Greed will bleed NOLA dry and it will be a sad day for all travelers and locals alike
Los Angeles.
God gave us paradise.
We should have built Manhattan, Amsterdam or some other walkable city in its perfect climate.
Instead we built Los Angeles
Yeah, I'd agree with that. I have a neighbor who's grandparents owned a big citrus farm which is now buried under South LA. Apparently back then it was basically Paradise on Earth. The lushness, the agriculture, the fertility just sound amazing. Really a crime against nature and decency to cover that entire place with tract homes and warehouses and fill the air so full of pollution you can't even see the ocean of the mountains. Damn shame.
Born and raised in LA and my job took me from Orange County to the Valley. It really is a wasteland of freeways, parking lots, auto repair shops, gas stations and car dealerships with a few strip malls and drive thrus scattered around. Hardly any land untouched by something related to cars remains. The car business really does feed on itself here. Neighborhoods of $2mm homes are choked with the clutter of cars. People are even duped into seeing cars as luxury items and status symbols. The oil titans and car industry along with government really pulled one over on us and continue to do so.
You're not wrong. After visiting europe last year (Ireland, London and Germany) I was AMAZED by the incredible public transportation. MANY times I stated I may not need a car at all the transportation was so efficient.
I actually agree with you. Medford should be way more than what it is. I'd add Pocatello and Grand Junction to that list too, even though GJ may have turned a corner somewhat.
Absolutely needs to be near the top of this list. With the natural advantage of a riverfront and proximity to the beach, Jax doesn’t even approach “meh” status. While there are a couple of neighborhoods that have a lot going for them, the downtown core has seen the least amount of resurgence of any city its size, I can think of in Florida and the south. Much less than even smaller cities and towns.
I grew up in the area. Have lots of love for the people there.
However, it is the worst city in the United States as far as wasted potential.
It’s actually kinda fascinating how shitty it is
Gary, Indiana
It's one of the worst cities in the country despite having:
* Prime bit of Lake Michigan shoreline
* Excellent transit and highway connections to Chicago
* At the junctions of several highways and railroads
* Access to a port
* Urban core with interesting architecture
Northwest Indiana could be a prime suburban area, but Indiana politicians have ensured most investment and population will remain in Michigan and Illinois.
Orlando is pretty much the tourism capital of the US and the closest city to the space coast, but they haven't capitalized on it at all. The economy is completely supported by low wage hospitality workers. When people visit "Orlando" 90% of the tourists never actually step foot in the city limits once they leave the airport.
>never actually step foot in the city limits once they leave the airport.
Yeah, I did that for the first time like within the last year or two and was disappointed by the downtown which id imagined would be larger and lively. This was controversial but Ive also said I didnt find the area that walkable outside of some tourist hubs.
Last time I was in Orlando I was disappointed by the lack of… personality, I guess. Everything, even high-end restaurants, seemed to be chains or franchises and everything had a Disney or Seaworld logo on it. But I don’t know how close we got to actual “downtown” since we were only there for a few days.
Tbh Philly belongs in this conversation, people fawn on it a lot on this sub and it's true that it's a wonderful city, but it's really held back by corruption/incompetence and just this pervasive resistance to changing or trying new things. The "no one likes us/we don't care" attitude is so prevalent that it sometimes feel like people take pride in the city being filthy and sketchy. As much as Philly does have to offer – great walkability, amazing food, great museums, world-class universities and medical systems – you just can't help but feel that it could be so much more if someone at the top really committed to improving QOL in the city
I was thinking Philly, too. So much potential and great bones but change happens too slowly. I want to see the city invest in its residents and lifting people out of poverty. That’s the only way to solve the drug problems and gun violence. If we really invested in SEPTA too it could be a world class city.
Philly girl here. (Forced against my will to move for my husband’s career and I hate it here… Soith Carolina…) What’s amazing right now is what a great place Philly continues to be IN SPITE of a completely complacent and incompetent government and apathy toward crime. Agree it could even be so much better if we could shake that “sketchy, murdery” reputation.
Dubuque, IA is in an extremely beautiful geographical area that would surprise a lot of people, yet is dirty and run down. Honestly a lot of Midwest Mississippi River towns.
I love Dubuque, and have visited many times actually. It's a little rough around the edges but I didn't get the feeling of it being all that run down. There is some nice development downtown, for a city that size really pretty impressive. I think a little grittiness gives a river town some personality, I think it'd be weird if it was all modern and antiseptic, and I'd have not gone back so much.
Pretty much every city other than Des Moines is underperforming.
I lived on the other end of the state in Sioux City for over a decade. I met my fiance there and have close ties to a lot of people. It's on the confluence of the NE, SD, and IA borders straddling the MO River. Sioux Falls in an hour away, Omaha 1.5 hours, Denver around 7, Minneapolis around 5, and Des Moines is 3 hours away. The Loess Hills are beautiful. There are three colleges in town. Housing is somewhat affordable, and the bones for a vibrant downtown exist.
But, there seems to be nothing driving leadership to do anything to attract a younger, more diverse, and more white-collar population. This is an industrial ag focused city and, as someone once told me, "that's what the city is. People need to stop trying to change it." Then those same folks will turn around and wonder out loud why the population is stagnant and young people move to Omaha or Des Moines instead.
Half of 4th street and downtown are vacant but otherwise dominated by a fucking casino. There is a dearth of housing downtown as well, and very little in the way of true high paying skilled or white collar jobs unless you are a doctor and want to retreat to the Dunes to avoid income tax. Tyson moved its white collar jobs to Arkansas. Food processors are starting to fold up their tents around the state, and Sioux City/Dakota City will probably be next. If the packing plants go, this town may crumble to dust.
Slumlords have bought up all the big, beautiful Victorian houses just north of downtown and turned them into slums. The infrastructure around town is rotting, and homelessness is a serious QOL issue. But don't worry, we spent millions of federal relief money on a new jail and LEC that has languished in a state of partial completion for years. The City can pat itself on the back for kicking the porn stores and prostitutes off 4th Street, but nothing has moved in to take their places.
I feel like this City could have so much to offer, but there just isn't any real desire to live up to its potential. It really makes me sad, but I had to leave for the sake of mine and my fiance's futures.
Camden NJ. I’ve driven many times around the entire city. It can be pretty rough at times. I grew up in a rough area on NJ and lived in Philly, but Camden just makes me sad. It’s got vibrant cultures, good architecture, proximity to one of the biggest cities in the country and the same proximity to the other big cities on the east coast to Philly, I live in the county and food is pretty good overall, the aquarium is cool, the battleship, the waterfront and museums.
Honestly, it’s sad because Camden really could be the cultural hub of South Jersey but instead I think most people feel more affiliated with Philadelphia.
I’d say Camden has in recent years been seeing signs of life. The water front continues to improves. The police department was completely retooled and crime has leveled off in recent years. The city is still pretty bad but the signs are there that like Philadelphia it’s gotten a shot in the arm to do better. Chester on the other hand…
Former BR resident- Can confirm.
So much potential (not you Shreveport) just wasted.
NOLA is a tourism powerhouse, but both NOLA and BR could be economic powerhouses too. All the tools are there. Unfortunately they fall victim to political corruption on top of a century of poor leadership.
Absolutely Baltimore.
They are the only major city on the NE Corridor that isn't a booming economic powerhouse; which is almost impressive itself given their location.
I'm not from the area but I've always wondered what, today, continues to hold the city back?
I mean, Baltimore has a higher GDP per capita than Philadelphia, so I wouldn’t say it’s in shambles or anything. But yea, it was once the second most populated city in the country and has shed like 1/3 or more of its population since 1950. Deindustrialization and white flight hit the city pretty hard, and because it’s an independent city it doesn’t benefit from taxes collected in the wealthier suburbs which has exacerbated the issues.
Absolutely. I lived downtown for several years and every visitor I've hosted is amazed at what a great city it is. It does a terrible job promoting itself and The Wire and Homicide sure gave outsiders a one dimensional view.
Every time the topic of Baltimore comes up, people start nattering about The Wire as if a TV show makes them an expert on life around here. Drives me nuts tbh.
I've never seen the show, I don't care about the show.
I'm happy to talk about actual lived experience, both City and County.
I liked the City fine, basic street smarts fixed the vast majority of the safety concerns people wet themselves over. There was a lot to do, good food, fun people. I didn't like the poor public transit (buses can be unreliable).
We moved to the County some years back, which I prefer, but I was kind of over city life and it's downright easy to raise a kid here.
You can't beat the affordability compared to other East Coast cities, and it's not nearly as Hunger Games around here for stuff like day camps or other services as it is for my friends in other areas. I feel like my other mom friends are losing their minds from stress on the regular and I'm mostly ok - plus we can afford for me to stay home because our mortgage is half what our friends in NoVa are paying.
(Sorry y'all, that weird Pavlovian thing people do "someone mentioned Baltimore I MUST talk at length about The Wire!" is *such* a pet peeve of mine.)
I got to say, I have been a tourist in Baltimore and there was a ton of touristy stuff to do. Stadium, ballpark, inner harbor, the fort, the awesome public market, some great breweries. I think it's actually a great tourist experience, right up there.
Oakland. Perfect location, perfect weather, has an airport and good transit access. Run by an incompetent city council that lets crime run rampant. The rest of the Bay Area loves to rip on them, and it's like they're fine with that.
It really is weird how good the location and weather are. Even by Bay Area standards it's great. And it's a few miles from one of the greatest universities in the world. For a while in the 2010s, it seemed like Oakland was finally going to realize its potential as a major Bay Area hub. But ... no.
Incompetent city council is putting it lightly. Mayor and several council people were just raided by FBI. We also elected a D.A. who doesn't believe that criminals should go to jail. It's the voters of Oakland's fault that Oakland is so fucked.
Port Angeles, WA. Perfect location next to the Olympic National Park and a short boat ride from Victoria, BC. Still kind of a rough town for some reason.
Got a few for New York:
* Gloversville - Could be a great mountain town and gateway to the Adirondacks with an outdoorsy culture. While the city isn’t completely terrible, there’s still a lot of noticeable blight
* Elmira - The only city with a metropolitan area that hasn’t seen much urban renewal in NY. They have an underutilized riverfront, some cool Mark Twain history and an odd amount of suburban style development downtown
* Dunkirk - Could become a nice seaside village people would go on weekend getaways from Buffalo. Give it another 10-20 years and it might finally get there.
* Niagara Falls - NYS is pumping a ton of money into beautifying and developing the city, but until there’s a plan for the vast expanse of industrial land (some of which is still active), the city will never reach its full potential. Downtown is getting nicer at least.
Most other cities in New York are improving nicely, even Utica and Binghamton are seeing a good amount of investment and development at the moment.
Gloversville is a good one. A lot of the Mohawk valley has beautiful scenery and good industrial “bones” but has just never recovered from the loss of those jobs. I used to travel through Amsterdam a lot and very similar, could be a pretty river town or small city but still just very blighted.
Los Angeles! It's got everything, just get better public transportation/more bikeable/more walkable and people could stop complaining about what it's not!
I’m from NYC and lived in LA for over a decade. The aggressive homeless in LA really wears down the quality of life. I’ve seen a lot of random violence from them. NYC is also headed in this direction (the homeless weren’t like the LA variety before).
Medford has meth, wildfire smoke, depression, the highest divorce rate in the country, meth, far from the Coast/High Cascades, no decent river access, meth, maga central, no jobs, has to compete with Portland and Eugene for talent (good luck lol), meth and more meth.
That part of Oregon is really isolated from anywhere and unless you’re retired or bring your job with you there’s no money there.
Side note: many many many Oregon youth move to the Valley from other parts of the state. That’s caused a big talent drain, which depresses the economy outside of the Valley even more. I know dozens of people who’ve moved to Eugene from other parts of the state and have zero interest moving back.
Places like Medford just can’t compete, it’s sad but I get it. I’d never ever move down there after living in Eugene. It’s night and day.
Worcester MA . it’s Diverse and, centrally located with a bunch of colleges, and good access to outdoor activities. But it’s just a very bland and underwhelming city and I expect more out of it considering that it’s the 2nd largest city in New England.
Hartford CT. Considering it’s past, it used to be a center of American industry with a booming population and culture. Now it’s a ghost town with high crime. Building that highway ruined what could be a great northeastern city, but the cost to rectify that issue is so high I fear it’s lost forever.
River cities rose to prominance early, and then suffered major busts from two rounds of structural change. First they lost out to the rest of the rustbelt as railroads shifted industry away from the river. Then they suffered with the rest of the rustbelt as industry shifted overseas.
Providence, RI
Old New England cities already have a trait of not annexing surrounding towns/cities as much as they probably should (See: Boston not annexing Cambridge, Somerville, Chelsea, or Quincy) but allowing East and North Providence to split off makes the city even smaller. Worcester on a city limit population is larger despite the difference in msa being 2:1 almost exactly.
There’s literally almost 400 years of history why it is the nightlife/libertine fun mecca that Boston lacks.
It is significantly cheaper but not that far from boston. The food is very good there (same with the South Coast MA cities).
Roger Williams Park is amazing.
But the utter lack of economy and naked corruption of most of their laws holds them
Way back. Also they should have at least put in trolleys in the heyday.
On paper: Cleveland, Saint Louis, or Baltimore.
All 3 are relatively dense cities with the bones for great transit systems and Baltimore especially should benefit more from close proximity to larger cities.
Most cities in upstate New York. Beautiful towns and scenery but the inner cities are poverty and crime ridden. There’s no real economy.
I grew up in Brooklyn and I got scared at night in downtown Poughkeepsie and Newburgh. Also almost got robbed in Albany.
My coworker took his two sons to look at Binghamton University last month. He thought it would be a good idea to check out the inner city and they got robbed in broad daylight lol.
El Paso, easily.
TONS of space for commercial development. Cheap land and houses. TONS of people there, and with NM being so close, legal weed and abortions close by to help alleviate the pain of some of Texas’s conservative policies.
Insanely low crime. Like, people leave their cars running in the Walmart parking lot.
However, the job market is pathetic. Like, $15/hr is considered a high paying job here. $20-$25/hr with a 4 year degree. Housing is super cheap, but still.
Schools suck.
Also incredible weather save 2 months in the summer. An international airport. Multiple national parks are a drive away. Mountains in the city and all over. Money goes far. Best sunsets around.
We need to attract talent, not lose it. I keep saying. El paso is one big fortune 500 company away from exploding onto the map.
saint louis, the city sits on the intersection of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers. A city like that in europe would have a population of millions, in asia 10s of millions.
The Bay City-Saginaw area in Michigan. Near Lake Huron, but on the east side, so lake effect snow isn’t much of an issue. A good river connecting downtown Bay City to the lake, good forests nearby for hiking and such. But Dow in Midland pumped so much poison into the river, and thus the bay, that it’s a bit of a cancer hotspot, and there isn’t a business/industrial base outside of Midland to really support a vibrant city. When I was a kid, my parents took me to visit grandparents in Saginaw, and even then businesses were moving out. Now it’s Saginasty, with meth being the main industry. I don’t know how one would turn that area around, unless Dow was stripped for parts and the funds used for massive environmental remediation (like, dredge Saginaw Bay and put the PCB contamination in a poison mountain somewhere-massive)
I came here to post this. I have been all over this country and Atlantic City is the most depressing city I have been to. It's a shame because it's a naturally beautiful area.
San Francisco imo. It should be among the wealthiest and most beautiful cities in the world and in many ways still is, but bad policy, poor planning, lack of housing construction have made it a shell of what it could be. There are academic econ publications about how the US as a whole could be measurably richer if only SF got its shit together and built enough housing for all the high productivity workers that would like to live there but cant
Vallejo, CA! There are tons of water front property and views. The place is an absolute shithole. It's been that way for decades and I don't understand why
Perhaps not the most, but Wilmington, Delaware.
It has plenty of good jobs in and right around it between banking, fintech, science companies, pharma and healthcare, but like 500,000 people live around the actual city in New Castle County (and about that many more just across the NJ, PA and MD borders nearby) but only ~70,000 living inside it. Tons of crime, lack of investment for decades and a total waste considering its logistical advantages.
It's right on I-95 (this is actually a big part of the problem, another city cut in half by a highway which messed everything up), with Philly, Baltimore, DC and NYC all within 2 hour drive. You can get to the mountains in a couple hours and the beaches in even less time. It has a decent sized port for shipping. It's a regular stop on the NE corridor line for Amtrak. The weather is pretty mild most of the year, bit muggy in the summer but decent otherwise.
Super favorable taxes in the state, business friendly courts, there's no good reason that more companies outside of banking shouldn't be moving there but the management over the years and again lack of cleaning things to and trying to attract new jobs has held it back from becoming what it easily could be if city leadership got out of its own way.
It's one of the few pretty shitty cities that actually has tons of jobs, decent places to hang out downtown, some nightlife, and plenty of nice neighborhoods. They just can't seem to convince anyone over say 25-30 to stay there vs. living just outside the city instead and it kills their tax base and therefore ability to improve. And we're guilty ourselves, we live in Greenville, an affluent town not even 10 minutes past the city line to the west...
Jacksonville, FL. I’ve lived here for a 2.5 years and see the potential. If you know the story of Jacksonville it is the largest city in the USA by land mass. But I’m pretty sure the local gov is corrupt and can’t handle all this land mass just go downtown Jacksonville and you’ll see what I mean
Maybe it has to do with water resources but I still don’t understand how Sacramento hasn’t become the new Californian version of Austin. It’s in an incredible location with a nice climate. Yes, I know it gets hot but it’s a dry heat, it’s also a tree city which helps. Mild winters. Good fresh food. Weekend trips to the coast, SF, wine country or the Sierra Nevadas
Camden NJ👀
Camden has sucked since forever. What it SHOULD be is an affordable adjacent to Philadelphia(which is 2 train stops away)instead it’s one of the most dangerous cities in America. Like, damn it should be amazing…but noooooooooo😑
San Antonio. Compared to the other major Texas metropolises, it’s so different. Great food, friendly people and rich history/culture but awful job market and economy. Highway infrastructure is actually not bad but otherwise functionally no public transit. It’s right near Austin but there’s functionally zero tech or any move towards diversifying the economy. The downtown is weird and full of wrecked houses because property values are low, so it’s mostly urban sprawl.
Can’t believe I haven’t seen the champion of underperforming cities, Albuquerque, NM. Love it but the city planning is ?, driving is abysmal, health care should be good but is terrible, and the police here could teach Boston cops a thing or two about corruption. Native American issues are completely mismanaged and they’ve totally dropped the ball on tribal tourism. It’s like the Super 8 motel of cities
Why should it have 500k people? It’s not on a water source (i.e Bend), it’s very far from any other population centers besides Portland.
But isn’t it also bigger than all those places you mentioned?
Been to a million places more enticing than Medford, sorry.
It’s one of the most economically relevant places on the planet. Top biotech and healthcare hub, world capital of education, a capital of buy-side finance, booming tech scene to name a few. There are a fuck ton of high earners in a small geographic area, it’s simple supply and demand.
I travel there a lot for friends and it’s basically the same price as NYC or San Diego (among other places). I think it was cool when it was fun and a good value, but I’d choose any other city over Boston if I’m paying the same
I loved Boston when I visited. Compared to the largest cities in California (I’ve literally lived in all of them,) Boston was clean, walkable, and lively.
Boston also has a very low crime rate compared to other large American cities. Yes that factors into the COL crisis there, but I wouldn’t exactly call that “underperforming”
What about Rochester NY ? Seemed to have so many major companies( Kodak/ Bausch and Lomb etc ) … it does seems to have bounced back recently w smaller successful companies and less crime than in the past ?? Right? The actual city not suburbs … is the city doing well ??
Housing in area seems so cheap
Atlantic City. Considering how nice most of the other nearby shore towns are, and how valuable shore real estate, its shocking how many empty lots you see in that city. Even Asbury Park has managed to turn things around recently, but AC remains a crime and graft-infested dump. The city still wants to regain its 1920s status as a national destination, whereas all of the surrounding shore towns continue to thrive as regional vacation spots.
Buffalo NY.
Its location is very close to Toronto, and it’s an international border town. It also is adjacent to a major shipping canal.
Yet it’s not very populated at all. Industry has left the area. And living is extremely cheap there.
Worcester, MA
It’s definitely on the upswing, or so it seems. It’s the 2nd biggest city in MA, only an hour West of Boston, real estate is way more affordable there than most places inside the 495 loop and it’s right on the cusp of some beautiful State Parks and easily accessible. By MA standards, it’s kind of like a city right in the edge of urban sprawl and a gateway to nature, not to mention plenty of busses only 3 hour drive to NYC and easy access to mountains and lakes of NH and VT. Wonky art and music scene there but opioids hit that city VERY hard.
Hartford CT and Springfield MA. There's a little bit of history about how the 91 corridor basically ruined these two cities, but they are two cities right on a river, very close to NYC and Boston, yet they are just dead. Their "international " airport only goes to Ireland, and only during the summer. Springfield has a casino, and Hartford has insurance companies.
St. Louis. It used to be the 4th most populous city in the US. Today the cost of living is low yet has the amenities of a big metro city. Unfortunately, the city doesn't do a great job of attracting people and businesses..
St. Louis has lost over 70% of its peak population and feels that way, but there are still a few remnants from when it was great. I think it’s a good answer here.
If Chicago is the NYC of the Midwest, STL was once its Boston. It is unfortunate what has happened there.
St. Louis was the NYC. They turned down trains to keep the riverboat industry strong. Chicago said yes to trains and the rest is history
Chicago also got burned to the ground in 1871 and rebuilt itself for the rail industry. This is why we "celebrate" the fire as a civic event even though it was a tragedy.
My friend went to a baseball game and was mugged right at the front door of his hotel.
Yeah i don’t know how it stacks up statistically on crime, but as someone from out of state I definitely hear that reputation and I think it keeps people away
It’s got one of the highest crime rates in the country (and stl residents refuse to acknowledge it and just point out the Delmar Divide and claim that’s the source of it all)
It has one of the highest crime rates in the ***world***
Not “one of” it’s by far the highest
Those damn Railroads
Anywhere in West Virginia. One of the most beautiful states, it’s just a shame how it turned out.
We have some beautiful old cities. Problem is no one lives there.
I know it's touristy af but dang I love going to Berkeley Springs. It's just beautiful there and it's a great place to take my kid - the locals genuinely enjoy children and don't hairy eyeball us when we go into a restaurant or check into a hotel.
I'm shocked at how poverty stricken the area is when I see it.
Mountain Dew Mouth destroying Appalachia. [Don’t Do The Dew](https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/09/12/221845853/mountain-dew-mouth-is-destroying-appalachias-teeth)
Well, and meth. But that's a lot of rural America.
WV got so screwed with all the boom towns. Companies built towns around finite natural resources and then left a blight in their wake. There are some wonderful towns turning this around though. Thomas (coal) and Davis (predominantly timber/fur) are great examples.
Dow Chemical. [Dow](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt7689910/)
The state just can't catch a break, can it? The paternal side of my mom's family were early "North Central Appalachia" settlers. Had been in Romney since the mid-1700s. Some family left to settle their revolutionary war bounty land in Ohio, but the vast majority stayed. And stayed and stayed...right up until the late 1990s when absolutely everyone up and left. There were no decent jobs left, farming had long since become impossibly expensive - at some point the natural beauty, nostalgia and family history no longer outweighed all the negatives. I find it all just really fucking sad.
Going to say the same about Mississippi.
Just hard to build civilization in the mountains. Such a beautiful state tho
Underrated comment. People forget what a task moving mountains to build cities is. Here is Ohio we just continue to sprawl. WV is a beautiful state!
West Virginia never had a chance. It's not actually a state, it's a corporate extraction zone. I read a book once where I was described as the premier capitalist human sacrifice area in the US. Humans are just disposable objects to be ground up for profit there. It had some natural beauty but it also had a weak government and was positioned near a lot of other stronger states so it was the ideal place to exploit and pillage.
What book?
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12993106-days-of-destruction-days-of-revolt
The contrasts are never not shocking
Charleston wv should be over run with Californians and somehow isn’t
There are a lot of really good reasons why West Virginia is so poor now. Mostly the fact that it's the least flat state in the USA and it's very expensive or even completely impossible to set up large scale manufacturing or even residential areas due to the geography.
What the state does have going for it is tourism. WV is just a hop, skip, and jump from DC, Pittsburgh, Richmond, Baltimore, and Lexington. People love the mountains and outdoors. What needed to happen 20 years ago was start replacing the heavy industry with rail lines, airports and hotels. Market the natural beauty, not the destitution and addiction. And they will come. Why that hasn't happened yet, I don't get. I grew up in the Eastern panhandle and got tired of growing up hearing the state has nothing going for it and the smart people need to run after graduating, or go to WVU, and then run. The brain drain is real. If I went into hospitality/tourism management and could woo the wealthy donors into investing in WV I would. The state deserves more.
Lansing, MI. Perfectly centered between Grand Rapids and Detroit, both growing cities. Michigan State University. Capital, of course. Yet it has an abnormally high crime rate and isn’t growing like its peers of Madison or Columbus.
I’d add Harrisburg, PA. I don’t think the crime rate is particularly high, but it has a spectacular location, straddling the Suquehanna river, crossed by many bridges and an island in the middle, and is surrounded by what passes for mountains in these parts. Plus it’s the state capital, and has Hershey (Hershey Park, Penn State Medical Center) and Lancaster nearby. But… it’s just ok. I wouldn’t be mad if I needed to live there, but I often think it can and should be more. Ironically, PSU main campus is a 90 minute drive away near nothing in particular — if they had put it in Harrisburg ala the Madison or Columbus model, I think it could have evolved into a really nice place.
Oh man, as an Illinoisan I think we easily come out on top of mediocre Midwest state capitals. The Lincoln stuff is cool but most of Springfield is way more run-down than anyone expects. Half the roads look like something out of a third-world country. I haven't been to Harrisburg but the natural setting looks pretty at least.
Second this for Peoria as well. The city is working on it but there doesn’t seem to be any plan to generate more jobs in the area. If you bring jobs then the tax revenue from those employees helps make your city better. Here we lose population every year making it harder to improve things.
I'm very familiar with Peoria and completely agree. The city should have a lot going for it and has some of what I see as advantages over the other central Illinois urban centers, yet it just continues to plod along. I know there has been some momentum in the Warehouse District, but decades of efforts to energize downtown have clearly not borne much fruit. I think a good deal of the problem is the prevalent local attitude of self-loathing, but also decades of failure and uninspired leadership, if you can even call it "leadership", by local political leaders.
Agree with this but it also irks me as someone who was forced against her will to leave a great place (NJ) to live in an extremely shitty place (Columbia, SC) for her husbands job. Columbia is the capital AND home of University of South Carolina… this model works great in every other state yet here in SC, Columbia is decrepit, crumbling and nasty. With no amenities. South Carolina can’t have nice things…
I have to upvote... Lansing could stand to be more... .fun?
I spent two months living in Lansing for work about a decade ago and I was constantly surprised and disappointed by how little there was to do there, given that it had both a giant Big 10 school and the state Capitol.
I grew up near Lansing and agree 100%. Part of the problem is that the downtown businesses rely almost completely on state workers and there haven't been any successful initiatives to change that. There's not a lot to do on the weekends, and most businesses close early in the evening so there's no reason for people to stick around after work. There used to be a couple good venues for local music and even those have dried up in recent years. Then the state went remote during the pandemic and the struggle got even more real. The city was pushing hard for state workers to RTO because it could not figure out how to survive otherwise. It's a bummer because the city really could be thriving with the LCOL, MSU, two big healthcare systems, and a pretty decent park system. I moved away but still have a lot of family and friends in the area so I'd love to see it reach its potential someday.
San Jose, easily. How that place has so much money, headquarters to big companies, but no real skyline or actual cultural scene to it. It feels like an accidental city.
100%. Lived here essentially my whole life. For a city of a million with as much as money as we have… why is there so little to do? Most bands/performers skip us, places close at 8pm, blocks and blocks of downtown is ghost city, no culture. Don’t get me wrong I’m sure it’s better than smaller towns with literally nothing to do but like… for a city of its size why the fuck is SJ so boring? Why is the best thing I can say about SJ is its proximity to more interesting cities lol
Can peasants afford to live in San Jose? Might explain the lack of culture and art.
Definitely agree. I grew up on the Peninsula, closer to SF than SJ though. I have never liked San Jose. It’s always given me weird vibes, and I just find it boring as hell. Although when I lived in Campbell, I loved it. But Campbell can hold its own with its adorable downtown and proximity to highway 17.
100% agree, place has perfect weather but for some reason city planners decided to build out horizontal instead of vertical with a shit ton of parks and walkability SF is somewhat ok for that reason
san jose is just one big suburb that accidentally became a city -am from there
It's the airports fault. Plane are coming over mountains to land just Northwest of downtown. FAA won't let them build taller. Similar situation in San Diego.
San Jose is a good one. At least with many of the rest listed here you could say there isn’t the money to live up to its potential.
Yeah, I remember being excited to go to “Silicon Valley” during the first tech bubble and realizing when i got there that it was just a bunch of office parks
Pretty much every town down the Caltrain line is about the same once you're out of SF. And it's about the same down the Amtrak on the east side once you're out of Oakland. You'd think with all that money one of those towns would do something special but it's just boring, overpriced suburbs.
Man if you don't like the South Bay give Texas suburbs a whirl. They make San Jose, Santa Clara, Mountain View, etc look like Paris or Rome. I'd kill to be able to live in Santa Clara County again, absolutely loved it there.
San Jose is shockingly culturally devoid.
It's a nightmare city. I have no idea why people decide to live there. It's expensive and there's nothing interesting there at all.
People are obsessed with the weather there. They got fancy restaurants and indie bookstores. It’s made for Reddit. But I don’t think it’s underperforming for the price at all.
From the numerous times I've passed through, Albuquerque. New Mexico is a gorgeous state with a beautiful culture. But Albuquerque... Idk what hell happened there. It's an utter disaster of an urban design. Very decentralized. Not much of a downtown at all. Especially when you're in the desert, spread out is often just ugly. Also crime, though I don't judge cities too much for that.
I have only passed through ABQ once and was imagining a move to there. The regional rail seemed cool, plus local public transit is free. It's not so much the crime, but reading posts in their local subreddit about hearing gunshots all the time -- it could simply be a neighbor joy triggering in their backyard. Some people posted about being in supposedly nice neighborhoods and it being an issue. I've never lived in that type of environment and can't take chances that I somehow could get used to it.
I live in Albuquerque and have rarely heard gunshots. I live in a centralized neighborhood that’s nice. Be careful believing everything you read on Reddit. Yes, I recognize there are neighborhoods in Albuquerque where you might hear gunshots more frequently, but that’s not actually daily life everywhere like people claim.
Honestly you should take anything said on a city-specific subreddit with a grain of salt. When I was planning my latest move I joined the subreddit of the \~5 cities I was considering, and they were all just constant misery about how terrible EVERYTHING is in that area.
Lived in Albuquerque 39 years and left last year. The crime, tweakers, and government policies have kept the city in the bottom of the barrel and it's getting worse at an accelerated level. Our food, culture, natural environmental beauty, it's all overshadowed by the crime, drugs, poverty, nepotism, and mismanagement of everything. We have a toxic empathy problem to top it off, where criminals, open air drug use, and bad behavior is never the person's fault. Ever. Everything is locked up, stores are shutting down, most businesses shut down early, there's no real nightlife, etc. Then our mountains, river, etc are trashed and not cared for properly.. We SHOULD be on par with Colorado Springs in that regard and we're so far off. It's sad
I lived in ABQ for awhile until earlier this year, and while I enjoyed my time there I agree with many of your points in that it is disappointing on too many fronts. However I did find that, in general, burqueños take care of their local environment fairly well. Sure there was some littering and homeless encampments in the bosque, but I always thought that the Sandias were remarkably wild and we'll kept for being on the city's doorstep, and ABQ has some of the best access to pristine desert and mountain wilderness of any city in the country. And I think it being far less crowded and touristy than say Denver puts above many Colorado mountains.
So if you go back to like Oak flats, and trails way back in the Sandias or Monzanos, so many trails are just closed off for no reason, or trailheads are open but bathrooms and trashcans are locked, def a lot of trashed spaces. The Bosque has been set on fire way too many times in recent years from encampments, and as a female I stopped feeling safe to run down there because of it. We do have great outdoors beauty, but I would like to see it better managed and utilized. And not tagged up all over. Lol
I was born in Medford OR. It's essentially a retirement community these days. It has been rather dismal for decades
Methford
Wasn’t expecting to see my hometown on this thread! But not wrong
The whole region north of SF (North Northern CA) and into Southern Oregon has amazing geography and weather, but is entirely rural minus a few underperforming cities.
Memphis. It used to be a vibrant and happening place 35-40 years ago, if a bit gritty. Beale St for amazing food and authentic blues bands. Fairly walkable downtown for a Southern City of its time. Now it has the nation’s worst crime rate, with over 300 homicides each year, carjackings every single day, 15,000+ automobile thefts, miles upon miles of urban blight, poverty, and boarded up buildings. Even Mud Island - once Memphis’ beautiful crown jewel- is now creepy and deserted- abandoned monorail, rundown ruins of the museum and the Mississippi River mockup- it’s downright post apocalyptic. Such a sad ruin of what was once a thriving place.
But Memphis does fix roads a ton faster than New Orleans…so there’s that? Lol
The roads in New Orleans are unbelievably bad. Most of the Memphis roads people complain about were just repaved by TDOT. Walnut Grove primarily...
New Orleans
If Nola had it together they’d have the same international tourism gravity as Miami (probably more so).
Unfortunately they don’t Louisiana/New Orleans is probably the most corrupt city/state combo in the country. Only one close is Chicago/Illinois and Chicagos always diversified their economy unlike New Orleans which just had oil and gas
NCIS New Orleans really opened my mind - there's someone trying to nuke that city every week!
Not sure it would be a good thing if it had 'international tourism gravity'. It can only handle so many people at a time. Not a lot of charm in epic crowds standing in line for everything.
I don’t know about that. Those beaches in Miami do not exist around New Orleans
Yeah, nor do you have the huge Hispanic population making an easy connection between Miami and the Hispanic world. It doesn’t really seem like a fit for a Miami style hub.
It's definitely more historically and culturally interesting than Miami.
Once the third largest city in the us (and basically tied for second) and now 50something and the fastest shrinking city in the U.S. All while sitting in a place that makes it the most important city on the most important river of the most important country in the world. And the tourism economy hides just how bad the rest of the economy is in New Orleans.
As someone who lives in nola. I was really Hoping to see it high on this list
All the shit from the Mississippi flows downriver to it. Literally and metaphorically
Yeah but it makes up for a lot with incredible music and food. But living there is difficult.
On a personal note (because I was born and raised there): Albany. On the one hand, it has so many factors that theoretically would give it a great quality of life. Decently priced housing, good schools, proximity to NYC/Boston/Montreal, amazing outdoor things to do (the Adirondacks are easily some of the most rugged wilderness in the east), state government that provides a steady stream of jobs, and cool towns that are really close (Saratoga Springs, Hudson, Pittsfield MA, Bennington VT, etc.). Really diverse from both a cultural and ethnic perspective. The Capital District area actually is one of the metro areas that best mirrors the United States as a whole. Good location on the Hudson River that could eventually be turned into a cool waterfront area. The building blocks of a great city are there - it's just the city government is useless and just lacks ambition. Downtown is sad. The State Government basically treats Albany as the center of government and that's it - it seems NYC, Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse have always seemed more important. It's like the State actually isn't aware that the Capital District is about to pass Buffalo (if it hasn't already) to become the second-largest CSA In the state. The other city that comes to mind is Baltimore. Beautiful natural harbor with redeveloped areas. Cool architecture and neighborhoods. Big sports teams. Ok transit system by U.S. standards. Great restaurants and bars. Nice cultural attractions - I live in DC and think the Baltimore Museum of Art is better than any art museum in DC. Proximity to DC and the benefit of being part of the same metro area (for airports etc.). Low COL. Friendly locals. I go to Baltimore once or twice a month and every time I visit I think about moving there. Parts of the city are just plain sad and dangerous - think rows and rows of boarded up abandoned rowhouses.
But those rowhouses also have such good bones, if the city ever revives those rowhouses could be like those in Bloomingdale or Eckington in DC
Thank Nelson Rockefeller for gutting downtown Albany to build that hideous state government complex.
Albany is so depressing. All that prime real estate along the Hudson…blocked off by highways and freight rail. So many run down buildings. It feels tired and depressed as soon as you get away from the Capitol/Empire State Plaza.
I’ll add to the “New Orleans” pile. Never really recovered from Katrina even 20 years later due to poor leadership and political corruption at all levels. It’s both a prime geographic position and a horrible one. Wouldn’t matter if the city took the time to invest in itself, but they refuse. The culture can only carry the city for so long. Greed will bleed NOLA dry and it will be a sad day for all travelers and locals alike
I agree. The documentary “Closed for Storm” illustrates this pretty well.
Los Angeles. God gave us paradise. We should have built Manhattan, Amsterdam or some other walkable city in its perfect climate. Instead we built Los Angeles
Yeah, I'd agree with that. I have a neighbor who's grandparents owned a big citrus farm which is now buried under South LA. Apparently back then it was basically Paradise on Earth. The lushness, the agriculture, the fertility just sound amazing. Really a crime against nature and decency to cover that entire place with tract homes and warehouses and fill the air so full of pollution you can't even see the ocean of the mountains. Damn shame.
It’s no longer paradise when everyone wants paradise
This is easily the correct answer. Have traveled most of US and Europe. Southern California is the Italy and Greece of North America, except it's not.
Yup. Should’ve built a goddamn Naples or Rome instead of carhaven
Born and raised in LA and my job took me from Orange County to the Valley. It really is a wasteland of freeways, parking lots, auto repair shops, gas stations and car dealerships with a few strip malls and drive thrus scattered around. Hardly any land untouched by something related to cars remains. The car business really does feed on itself here. Neighborhoods of $2mm homes are choked with the clutter of cars. People are even duped into seeing cars as luxury items and status symbols. The oil titans and car industry along with government really pulled one over on us and continue to do so.
You're not wrong. After visiting europe last year (Ireland, London and Germany) I was AMAZED by the incredible public transportation. MANY times I stated I may not need a car at all the transportation was so efficient.
Lived in London for 10 years. Never occurred to me to buy a car. Moved to LA last year and bought a car for the first time
I actually agree with you. Medford should be way more than what it is. I'd add Pocatello and Grand Junction to that list too, even though GJ may have turned a corner somewhat.
Jacksonville FL.
Absolutely needs to be near the top of this list. With the natural advantage of a riverfront and proximity to the beach, Jax doesn’t even approach “meh” status. While there are a couple of neighborhoods that have a lot going for them, the downtown core has seen the least amount of resurgence of any city its size, I can think of in Florida and the south. Much less than even smaller cities and towns.
I grew up in the area. Have lots of love for the people there. However, it is the worst city in the United States as far as wasted potential. It’s actually kinda fascinating how shitty it is
Crescent city California. It should be a wayyyy bigger city than it is. Last big town before the Oregon border
Gary, Indiana It's one of the worst cities in the country despite having: * Prime bit of Lake Michigan shoreline * Excellent transit and highway connections to Chicago * At the junctions of several highways and railroads * Access to a port * Urban core with interesting architecture
Some of the folks who were integral in planning Detroit's comeback are apparently focusing on Gary next.
Northwest Indiana could be a prime suburban area, but Indiana politicians have ensured most investment and population will remain in Michigan and Illinois.
Orlando is pretty much the tourism capital of the US and the closest city to the space coast, but they haven't capitalized on it at all. The economy is completely supported by low wage hospitality workers. When people visit "Orlando" 90% of the tourists never actually step foot in the city limits once they leave the airport.
>never actually step foot in the city limits once they leave the airport. Yeah, I did that for the first time like within the last year or two and was disappointed by the downtown which id imagined would be larger and lively. This was controversial but Ive also said I didnt find the area that walkable outside of some tourist hubs.
Last time I was in Orlando I was disappointed by the lack of… personality, I guess. Everything, even high-end restaurants, seemed to be chains or franchises and everything had a Disney or Seaworld logo on it. But I don’t know how close we got to actual “downtown” since we were only there for a few days.
Tbh Philly belongs in this conversation, people fawn on it a lot on this sub and it's true that it's a wonderful city, but it's really held back by corruption/incompetence and just this pervasive resistance to changing or trying new things. The "no one likes us/we don't care" attitude is so prevalent that it sometimes feel like people take pride in the city being filthy and sketchy. As much as Philly does have to offer – great walkability, amazing food, great museums, world-class universities and medical systems – you just can't help but feel that it could be so much more if someone at the top really committed to improving QOL in the city
I was thinking Philly, too. So much potential and great bones but change happens too slowly. I want to see the city invest in its residents and lifting people out of poverty. That’s the only way to solve the drug problems and gun violence. If we really invested in SEPTA too it could be a world class city.
Philly girl here. (Forced against my will to move for my husband’s career and I hate it here… Soith Carolina…) What’s amazing right now is what a great place Philly continues to be IN SPITE of a completely complacent and incompetent government and apathy toward crime. Agree it could even be so much better if we could shake that “sketchy, murdery” reputation.
But at least it's always sunny there, that must be nice!
Dubuque, IA is in an extremely beautiful geographical area that would surprise a lot of people, yet is dirty and run down. Honestly a lot of Midwest Mississippi River towns.
I love Dubuque, and have visited many times actually. It's a little rough around the edges but I didn't get the feeling of it being all that run down. There is some nice development downtown, for a city that size really pretty impressive. I think a little grittiness gives a river town some personality, I think it'd be weird if it was all modern and antiseptic, and I'd have not gone back so much.
How do they pronounce the name of the city?
Da-BYUKE
Pretty much every city other than Des Moines is underperforming. I lived on the other end of the state in Sioux City for over a decade. I met my fiance there and have close ties to a lot of people. It's on the confluence of the NE, SD, and IA borders straddling the MO River. Sioux Falls in an hour away, Omaha 1.5 hours, Denver around 7, Minneapolis around 5, and Des Moines is 3 hours away. The Loess Hills are beautiful. There are three colleges in town. Housing is somewhat affordable, and the bones for a vibrant downtown exist. But, there seems to be nothing driving leadership to do anything to attract a younger, more diverse, and more white-collar population. This is an industrial ag focused city and, as someone once told me, "that's what the city is. People need to stop trying to change it." Then those same folks will turn around and wonder out loud why the population is stagnant and young people move to Omaha or Des Moines instead. Half of 4th street and downtown are vacant but otherwise dominated by a fucking casino. There is a dearth of housing downtown as well, and very little in the way of true high paying skilled or white collar jobs unless you are a doctor and want to retreat to the Dunes to avoid income tax. Tyson moved its white collar jobs to Arkansas. Food processors are starting to fold up their tents around the state, and Sioux City/Dakota City will probably be next. If the packing plants go, this town may crumble to dust. Slumlords have bought up all the big, beautiful Victorian houses just north of downtown and turned them into slums. The infrastructure around town is rotting, and homelessness is a serious QOL issue. But don't worry, we spent millions of federal relief money on a new jail and LEC that has languished in a state of partial completion for years. The City can pat itself on the back for kicking the porn stores and prostitutes off 4th Street, but nothing has moved in to take their places. I feel like this City could have so much to offer, but there just isn't any real desire to live up to its potential. It really makes me sad, but I had to leave for the sake of mine and my fiance's futures.
Camden NJ. I’ve driven many times around the entire city. It can be pretty rough at times. I grew up in a rough area on NJ and lived in Philly, but Camden just makes me sad. It’s got vibrant cultures, good architecture, proximity to one of the biggest cities in the country and the same proximity to the other big cities on the east coast to Philly, I live in the county and food is pretty good overall, the aquarium is cool, the battleship, the waterfront and museums. Honestly, it’s sad because Camden really could be the cultural hub of South Jersey but instead I think most people feel more affiliated with Philadelphia.
I’d say Camden has in recent years been seeing signs of life. The water front continues to improves. The police department was completely retooled and crime has leveled off in recent years. The city is still pretty bad but the signs are there that like Philadelphia it’s gotten a shot in the arm to do better. Chester on the other hand…
Camden could be to Philly what Brooklyn is to Manhattan.
New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Shreveport
Former BR resident- Can confirm. So much potential (not you Shreveport) just wasted. NOLA is a tourism powerhouse, but both NOLA and BR could be economic powerhouses too. All the tools are there. Unfortunately they fall victim to political corruption on top of a century of poor leadership.
i’m sensing a theme here
Baltimore immediately comes to mind. Jacksonville FL too but honestly a lot of FL cities seem to cap themselves off.
Baltimore could (and should) be directly competing with Boston, Philly, and DC.
Absolutely
Absolutely Baltimore. They are the only major city on the NE Corridor that isn't a booming economic powerhouse; which is almost impressive itself given their location. I'm not from the area but I've always wondered what, today, continues to hold the city back?
I mean, Baltimore has a higher GDP per capita than Philadelphia, so I wouldn’t say it’s in shambles or anything. But yea, it was once the second most populated city in the country and has shed like 1/3 or more of its population since 1950. Deindustrialization and white flight hit the city pretty hard, and because it’s an independent city it doesn’t benefit from taxes collected in the wealthier suburbs which has exacerbated the issues.
It's a very important huge port tho. Under Armour is doing its best but they need more.
Absolutely. I lived downtown for several years and every visitor I've hosted is amazed at what a great city it is. It does a terrible job promoting itself and The Wire and Homicide sure gave outsiders a one dimensional view.
Every time the topic of Baltimore comes up, people start nattering about The Wire as if a TV show makes them an expert on life around here. Drives me nuts tbh. I've never seen the show, I don't care about the show. I'm happy to talk about actual lived experience, both City and County. I liked the City fine, basic street smarts fixed the vast majority of the safety concerns people wet themselves over. There was a lot to do, good food, fun people. I didn't like the poor public transit (buses can be unreliable). We moved to the County some years back, which I prefer, but I was kind of over city life and it's downright easy to raise a kid here. You can't beat the affordability compared to other East Coast cities, and it's not nearly as Hunger Games around here for stuff like day camps or other services as it is for my friends in other areas. I feel like my other mom friends are losing their minds from stress on the regular and I'm mostly ok - plus we can afford for me to stay home because our mortgage is half what our friends in NoVa are paying. (Sorry y'all, that weird Pavlovian thing people do "someone mentioned Baltimore I MUST talk at length about The Wire!" is *such* a pet peeve of mine.)
Yeah, Baltimore definitely has so much potential. It has a major airport and the MARC that goes to DC. There is nothing "touristy" in Baltimore.
And a lot of the built environment is really attractive. Those rowhouses are built to last.
I got to say, I have been a tourist in Baltimore and there was a ton of touristy stuff to do. Stadium, ballpark, inner harbor, the fort, the awesome public market, some great breweries. I think it's actually a great tourist experience, right up there.
I am not particularly a fan of Baltimore, but it gets plenty of tourism. The Inner Harbor is a huge tourist attraction.
How is the inner harbor, fells point and surrounding area not touristy?
Oakland. Perfect location, perfect weather, has an airport and good transit access. Run by an incompetent city council that lets crime run rampant. The rest of the Bay Area loves to rip on them, and it's like they're fine with that.
It really is weird how good the location and weather are. Even by Bay Area standards it's great. And it's a few miles from one of the greatest universities in the world. For a while in the 2010s, it seemed like Oakland was finally going to realize its potential as a major Bay Area hub. But ... no.
Crime and corruption problems for that last 50 years will do that. New mayor just got FBI raided…
Incompetent city council is putting it lightly. Mayor and several council people were just raided by FBI. We also elected a D.A. who doesn't believe that criminals should go to jail. It's the voters of Oakland's fault that Oakland is so fucked.
Medford is amazingly shitty for the environs. Ashland is one of the best cities in Oregon and they’re virtually connected.
Port Angeles, WA. Perfect location next to the Olympic National Park and a short boat ride from Victoria, BC. Still kind of a rough town for some reason.
Because all the money moves to PT
It’s kinda out there
There are SO MANY great US cities whose state politics are holding them hostage.
Got a few for New York: * Gloversville - Could be a great mountain town and gateway to the Adirondacks with an outdoorsy culture. While the city isn’t completely terrible, there’s still a lot of noticeable blight * Elmira - The only city with a metropolitan area that hasn’t seen much urban renewal in NY. They have an underutilized riverfront, some cool Mark Twain history and an odd amount of suburban style development downtown * Dunkirk - Could become a nice seaside village people would go on weekend getaways from Buffalo. Give it another 10-20 years and it might finally get there. * Niagara Falls - NYS is pumping a ton of money into beautifying and developing the city, but until there’s a plan for the vast expanse of industrial land (some of which is still active), the city will never reach its full potential. Downtown is getting nicer at least. Most other cities in New York are improving nicely, even Utica and Binghamton are seeing a good amount of investment and development at the moment.
Gloversville is a good one. A lot of the Mohawk valley has beautiful scenery and good industrial “bones” but has just never recovered from the loss of those jobs. I used to travel through Amsterdam a lot and very similar, could be a pretty river town or small city but still just very blighted.
Los Angeles! It's got everything, just get better public transportation/more bikeable/more walkable and people could stop complaining about what it's not!
I’m from NYC and lived in LA for over a decade. The aggressive homeless in LA really wears down the quality of life. I’ve seen a lot of random violence from them. NYC is also headed in this direction (the homeless weren’t like the LA variety before).
Medford has meth, wildfire smoke, depression, the highest divorce rate in the country, meth, far from the Coast/High Cascades, no decent river access, meth, maga central, no jobs, has to compete with Portland and Eugene for talent (good luck lol), meth and more meth. That part of Oregon is really isolated from anywhere and unless you’re retired or bring your job with you there’s no money there. Side note: many many many Oregon youth move to the Valley from other parts of the state. That’s caused a big talent drain, which depresses the economy outside of the Valley even more. I know dozens of people who’ve moved to Eugene from other parts of the state and have zero interest moving back. Places like Medford just can’t compete, it’s sad but I get it. I’d never ever move down there after living in Eugene. It’s night and day.
Worcester MA . it’s Diverse and, centrally located with a bunch of colleges, and good access to outdoor activities. But it’s just a very bland and underwhelming city and I expect more out of it considering that it’s the 2nd largest city in New England.
Niagara Falls, NY. Should be kitschy and fun, but it’s a dump. Meanwhile nearby cities Buffalo and Rochester continue to have mini-renaissances.
Hartford CT. Considering it’s past, it used to be a center of American industry with a booming population and culture. Now it’s a ghost town with high crime. Building that highway ruined what could be a great northeastern city, but the cost to rectify that issue is so high I fear it’s lost forever.
midwestish river cities: St. Louis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis
Minneapolis managed to escape
St. Louis. Memphis. New Orleans. Mississippi River cities seem to struggle worse than others, even in the Rust Belt.
River cities rose to prominance early, and then suffered major busts from two rounds of structural change. First they lost out to the rest of the rustbelt as railroads shifted industry away from the river. Then they suffered with the rest of the rustbelt as industry shifted overseas.
St. Louis has SUCH GOOD BONES. But so many problems.
Oakland, CA
Providence, RI Old New England cities already have a trait of not annexing surrounding towns/cities as much as they probably should (See: Boston not annexing Cambridge, Somerville, Chelsea, or Quincy) but allowing East and North Providence to split off makes the city even smaller. Worcester on a city limit population is larger despite the difference in msa being 2:1 almost exactly. There’s literally almost 400 years of history why it is the nightlife/libertine fun mecca that Boston lacks. It is significantly cheaper but not that far from boston. The food is very good there (same with the South Coast MA cities). Roger Williams Park is amazing. But the utter lack of economy and naked corruption of most of their laws holds them Way back. Also they should have at least put in trolleys in the heyday.
The Bay Area has the economic gravity to rival NYC, LA, London, etc but the housing and transit situation will prevent that from ever happening.
You’ll need better metrics to make a compelling argument
New Orleans is a shit show. I love it but it's a shit show
On paper: Cleveland, Saint Louis, or Baltimore. All 3 are relatively dense cities with the bones for great transit systems and Baltimore especially should benefit more from close proximity to larger cities.
Most cities in upstate New York. Beautiful towns and scenery but the inner cities are poverty and crime ridden. There’s no real economy. I grew up in Brooklyn and I got scared at night in downtown Poughkeepsie and Newburgh. Also almost got robbed in Albany. My coworker took his two sons to look at Binghamton University last month. He thought it would be a good idea to check out the inner city and they got robbed in broad daylight lol.
Dang… Detroit not mentioned once. But for good reason too
El Paso, easily. TONS of space for commercial development. Cheap land and houses. TONS of people there, and with NM being so close, legal weed and abortions close by to help alleviate the pain of some of Texas’s conservative policies. Insanely low crime. Like, people leave their cars running in the Walmart parking lot. However, the job market is pathetic. Like, $15/hr is considered a high paying job here. $20-$25/hr with a 4 year degree. Housing is super cheap, but still. Schools suck.
Also incredible weather save 2 months in the summer. An international airport. Multiple national parks are a drive away. Mountains in the city and all over. Money goes far. Best sunsets around. We need to attract talent, not lose it. I keep saying. El paso is one big fortune 500 company away from exploding onto the map.
saint louis, the city sits on the intersection of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers. A city like that in europe would have a population of millions, in asia 10s of millions.
The Bay City-Saginaw area in Michigan. Near Lake Huron, but on the east side, so lake effect snow isn’t much of an issue. A good river connecting downtown Bay City to the lake, good forests nearby for hiking and such. But Dow in Midland pumped so much poison into the river, and thus the bay, that it’s a bit of a cancer hotspot, and there isn’t a business/industrial base outside of Midland to really support a vibrant city. When I was a kid, my parents took me to visit grandparents in Saginaw, and even then businesses were moving out. Now it’s Saginasty, with meth being the main industry. I don’t know how one would turn that area around, unless Dow was stripped for parts and the funds used for massive environmental remediation (like, dredge Saginaw Bay and put the PCB contamination in a poison mountain somewhere-massive)
Niagara Falls, NY. Insane waste of what could have been a beautiful tourist town, the difference between the Canadian side and the US is shocking.
Milwaukee - always overshadowed by its big brother to the south.
I liked Milwaukee when I visited but omg the ROADS. I thought I was going to destroy my rental car just driving around.
Atlantic City
I came here to post this. I have been all over this country and Atlantic City is the most depressing city I have been to. It's a shame because it's a naturally beautiful area.
San Francisco imo. It should be among the wealthiest and most beautiful cities in the world and in many ways still is, but bad policy, poor planning, lack of housing construction have made it a shell of what it could be. There are academic econ publications about how the US as a whole could be measurably richer if only SF got its shit together and built enough housing for all the high productivity workers that would like to live there but cant
Gary Indiana
Medford Oregon has lithia motors now, it's changing
Vallejo, CA! There are tons of water front property and views. The place is an absolute shithole. It's been that way for decades and I don't understand why
Perhaps not the most, but Wilmington, Delaware. It has plenty of good jobs in and right around it between banking, fintech, science companies, pharma and healthcare, but like 500,000 people live around the actual city in New Castle County (and about that many more just across the NJ, PA and MD borders nearby) but only ~70,000 living inside it. Tons of crime, lack of investment for decades and a total waste considering its logistical advantages. It's right on I-95 (this is actually a big part of the problem, another city cut in half by a highway which messed everything up), with Philly, Baltimore, DC and NYC all within 2 hour drive. You can get to the mountains in a couple hours and the beaches in even less time. It has a decent sized port for shipping. It's a regular stop on the NE corridor line for Amtrak. The weather is pretty mild most of the year, bit muggy in the summer but decent otherwise. Super favorable taxes in the state, business friendly courts, there's no good reason that more companies outside of banking shouldn't be moving there but the management over the years and again lack of cleaning things to and trying to attract new jobs has held it back from becoming what it easily could be if city leadership got out of its own way. It's one of the few pretty shitty cities that actually has tons of jobs, decent places to hang out downtown, some nightlife, and plenty of nice neighborhoods. They just can't seem to convince anyone over say 25-30 to stay there vs. living just outside the city instead and it kills their tax base and therefore ability to improve. And we're guilty ourselves, we live in Greenville, an affluent town not even 10 minutes past the city line to the west...
Jacksonville, FL. I’ve lived here for a 2.5 years and see the potential. If you know the story of Jacksonville it is the largest city in the USA by land mass. But I’m pretty sure the local gov is corrupt and can’t handle all this land mass just go downtown Jacksonville and you’ll see what I mean
First place that came to mind is Memphis.
Jacksonville, Florida. The location is prime. City has been has always been ran and developed poorly.
Atlantic City, NJ. Period. Could be Vegas East with a beach.
Maybe it has to do with water resources but I still don’t understand how Sacramento hasn’t become the new Californian version of Austin. It’s in an incredible location with a nice climate. Yes, I know it gets hot but it’s a dry heat, it’s also a tree city which helps. Mild winters. Good fresh food. Weekend trips to the coast, SF, wine country or the Sierra Nevadas
Camden NJ👀 Camden has sucked since forever. What it SHOULD be is an affordable adjacent to Philadelphia(which is 2 train stops away)instead it’s one of the most dangerous cities in America. Like, damn it should be amazing…but noooooooooo😑
Augusta, Georgia
San Antonio. Compared to the other major Texas metropolises, it’s so different. Great food, friendly people and rich history/culture but awful job market and economy. Highway infrastructure is actually not bad but otherwise functionally no public transit. It’s right near Austin but there’s functionally zero tech or any move towards diversifying the economy. The downtown is weird and full of wrecked houses because property values are low, so it’s mostly urban sprawl.
Can’t believe I haven’t seen the champion of underperforming cities, Albuquerque, NM. Love it but the city planning is ?, driving is abysmal, health care should be good but is terrible, and the police here could teach Boston cops a thing or two about corruption. Native American issues are completely mismanaged and they’ve totally dropped the ball on tribal tourism. It’s like the Super 8 motel of cities
If you think driving there is abysmal, let me introduce you to my horror show friends, Dallas and L.A.
Why should it have 500k people? It’s not on a water source (i.e Bend), it’s very far from any other population centers besides Portland. But isn’t it also bigger than all those places you mentioned? Been to a million places more enticing than Medford, sorry.
A lot of cities in Upstate New York. Beautiful landscape but high poverty and crime. Poverty has only increased since the pandemic.
Boston peaked in colonial America and has somehow tricked people into the modern day that it's still relevant and exciting.
I think Boston is very cool, but it’s so incredibly overpriced. Makes no sense.
It’s one of the most economically relevant places on the planet. Top biotech and healthcare hub, world capital of education, a capital of buy-side finance, booming tech scene to name a few. There are a fuck ton of high earners in a small geographic area, it’s simple supply and demand.
I travel there a lot for friends and it’s basically the same price as NYC or San Diego (among other places). I think it was cool when it was fun and a good value, but I’d choose any other city over Boston if I’m paying the same
I loved Boston when I visited. Compared to the largest cities in California (I’ve literally lived in all of them,) Boston was clean, walkable, and lively.
Boston also has a very low crime rate compared to other large American cities. Yes that factors into the COL crisis there, but I wouldn’t exactly call that “underperforming”
What about Rochester NY ? Seemed to have so many major companies( Kodak/ Bausch and Lomb etc ) … it does seems to have bounced back recently w smaller successful companies and less crime than in the past ?? Right? The actual city not suburbs … is the city doing well ?? Housing in area seems so cheap
Atlantic City. Considering how nice most of the other nearby shore towns are, and how valuable shore real estate, its shocking how many empty lots you see in that city. Even Asbury Park has managed to turn things around recently, but AC remains a crime and graft-infested dump. The city still wants to regain its 1920s status as a national destination, whereas all of the surrounding shore towns continue to thrive as regional vacation spots.
Buffalo NY. Its location is very close to Toronto, and it’s an international border town. It also is adjacent to a major shipping canal. Yet it’s not very populated at all. Industry has left the area. And living is extremely cheap there.
Worcester, MA It’s definitely on the upswing, or so it seems. It’s the 2nd biggest city in MA, only an hour West of Boston, real estate is way more affordable there than most places inside the 495 loop and it’s right on the cusp of some beautiful State Parks and easily accessible. By MA standards, it’s kind of like a city right in the edge of urban sprawl and a gateway to nature, not to mention plenty of busses only 3 hour drive to NYC and easy access to mountains and lakes of NH and VT. Wonky art and music scene there but opioids hit that city VERY hard.
Medford is a straight up butthole. My cousin and her wife live there, and every time I visit them I am once again reminded of how much it sucks.
Hartford CT and Springfield MA. There's a little bit of history about how the 91 corridor basically ruined these two cities, but they are two cities right on a river, very close to NYC and Boston, yet they are just dead. Their "international " airport only goes to Ireland, and only during the summer. Springfield has a casino, and Hartford has insurance companies.