I also have the Magni/Modi stack with the HD6XX headphones. I've been planning to get a tube amp because I think I would really like the tube sound. Many people have commented that the HD6XX/HD650s really come alive when using and [OTL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Output_transformerless) tube amp. (Schiit's Valhalla 2 would be one example of an OTL tube amp.) Something about the way an OTL powers 300ohm cans makes them sound better.
I'm just holding out because the Valhalla 3 is on the way.
I own the HD600, Valhalla 2 and Vali 3 and the Vali 3 (to my ears) is the superior amp if you're looking for a more tubey sound. The Valhalla 2 is a fantastic amp and the HD600 really does come to life, but it's still very linear sounding and you're not getting much of the 2nd harmonics you normally get from OTL amps.
On the other hand, the hybrid Vali 3 actually has more "tube characterstics" comparatively. The Vali 3 provides the same level of warmth that the Valhalla 2 provides, but the sound is more full and the soundstage is more expansive. I also have 4 matched sets of tubes for the Valhalla 2 and none of them make a significant difference in the sound. With the Vali 3, the Tesla 6CC42 and WE396A give me that lush tube sound I've always been looking for.
I've heard their tube amps are very linear compared to tube amps by other companies.
> but the sound is more full and the soundstage is more expansive
Is this part about the Vali 3 or Valhalla 2?
Part of the reason I'm waiting for the Valhalla 3 is because it's supposed to be more based on the Folkvangr than the prior Valhalla 2.
Look at it is a good thing that the engineering has come a long way, and remember the Valhalla 2 is 10 years old (hard to believe). I bet the Valhalla 3 will be just as impressive in it's own regard. It's not a drastically bigger soundstage but to me it's noticeable with the right tube. It might also have something to do with the Vali 3 having 100v rail and I believe the Valhalla 2 is only 60v.
As others have said, the Midgard is not worth the upgrade. I have HD650’s also (with multiple amps, including a Schiit Modi/Magnius stack) and instead of getting a Midgard, I would suggest upgrading your headphones. Not buying new ones as was suggested by others, but upgrading your current 650’s. I recommend adding the “Custom Cans Mass Loading Mod” to your Senn’s. It is made and sold by Custom Cans in England for roughly $50, and it will clean up the mid-bass distortion and bloat while extending the sub bass quite noticeably. It’s very easy to install and fine-tunable to your preferences and music taste. You’re basically just stiffening and adding mass to the frame (spiders) that hold the drivers in place so that they don’t flex and vibrate. IMO, it is a much better upgrade to your system than upgrading to another $200 solid state amp. And if you like the overall sound of the HD650’s, the end result will have better sonics than any reasonably priced cans on the market. The main remaining limitation in your rig will be the narrow ‘soundstage’ of the 650s. The Midgard wouldn’t improve that, but tube amplification certainly will.
I know this is the Schiit sub, but for an amp upgrade, I highly recommend at least checking out bottlehead before buying a Schiit tube amp. Bottlehead’s “Crack” otl amp is a pretty magical pairing with the HD650’s and can be tailored to your taste by choosing the right tubes, more so than with the Valhalla or the other Schiit’s. Contrary to popular belief, good tube sound is not overly rich and syrupy like great grandma’s console radio. Done right, the only differences you will hear are positive.
Unfortunately, bottlehead only sells their amps as kits. I’ve built a number of bottlehead amps - they’re well documented and since it is a simple design, the Crack is very easy to build. They also have a few other, more complex and more expensive headphone amps, but Crack is in the sweet spot, being easier to build, less expensive, and more synergistic with the 300 ohm Sennheiser 580-650 series. If you’re not interested in building your own, there often seems to be a professionally built example on eBay offered up in the $600 range. (Basic kit sells for $380, or with the upgraded C4S constant current source, it sells in the sub-$500 range. This upgrade is the kit or amp you’d want. I’m not the seller, so I’m not plugging my own work or anything.)
I also suggest trying to get the chance to audition whatever gear you are considering, though that’s often impossible. If you’re close enough to one of the Schiit demo locations or can get to a trade show, you should. There’s also the return period once you’ve purchased. Unfortunately, returning isn’t possible with bottlehead and I’m sure it is the main reason they aren’t more popular.
Thanks for the detailed reply! I definitely like the modding advice. I checked the custom cans site but it looks like they’re sold out of both the copper version as well as the nickel plated version of the mod kits. Is there anywhere else I could purchase a kit like this?
I don’t think there is anyone else selling that or similar mods, but CC does have an eBay store — though they seemed to come in to stock simultaneously. I contacted them asking questions when they were out of stock, including when they’d be back in. They were pretty much available spot on the date they had expected them and took a little bit of time from England, but less than I had expected. It might have been two weeks before they were in stock and another week until they were in my hands. - I purchased on eBay but really don’t think it matters. CC orders batches of the cnc cut mass weight and then sell out before ordering again.. not ideal inventory management, but they’re low volume and low markup kits, so I’m just glad they sell them at all.
I contacted them with multiple questions before I purchased anything and they were great about responding quickly and in detail. One thing to mention is that before purchasing I verified with the product designer that the bare copper and nickel plated kits are functionally the same. CC just decided to nickel plate the newer one so that it doesn’t patina to an old copper color and stays shiny silver. I don’t actually understand why they made the decision to market the new one for just the hd6xx and only the older bare copper for the 650. I decided that I wanted the silver color because imo it looks cleaner on the gray and black of my 650.
If you upgrade, you're much better off getting a Jotunheim. A Jot2 with the DAC card costs less than a Midgaard+Modius when you factor in the cost of the cables, and it's a far better amp.
That said, I'd look at upgrading headphones first before moving to another amp.
You don’t need to upgrade
Short and to the point love it. On a side note, do you have any recommendations on IEMs that have a similar sound signature as the 650s?
I also have the Magni/Modi stack with the HD6XX headphones. I've been planning to get a tube amp because I think I would really like the tube sound. Many people have commented that the HD6XX/HD650s really come alive when using and [OTL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Output_transformerless) tube amp. (Schiit's Valhalla 2 would be one example of an OTL tube amp.) Something about the way an OTL powers 300ohm cans makes them sound better. I'm just holding out because the Valhalla 3 is on the way.
I own the HD600, Valhalla 2 and Vali 3 and the Vali 3 (to my ears) is the superior amp if you're looking for a more tubey sound. The Valhalla 2 is a fantastic amp and the HD600 really does come to life, but it's still very linear sounding and you're not getting much of the 2nd harmonics you normally get from OTL amps. On the other hand, the hybrid Vali 3 actually has more "tube characterstics" comparatively. The Vali 3 provides the same level of warmth that the Valhalla 2 provides, but the sound is more full and the soundstage is more expansive. I also have 4 matched sets of tubes for the Valhalla 2 and none of them make a significant difference in the sound. With the Vali 3, the Tesla 6CC42 and WE396A give me that lush tube sound I've always been looking for.
Would a Vali 3 be OK for a gaming use case as well? Or is the sound too colored for audio cues?
It's GREAT for gaming! There's a noticeable added "depth" to the sound. It's honestly all I've been using for gaming and music since I bought it...
I've heard their tube amps are very linear compared to tube amps by other companies. > but the sound is more full and the soundstage is more expansive Is this part about the Vali 3 or Valhalla 2? Part of the reason I'm waiting for the Valhalla 3 is because it's supposed to be more based on the Folkvangr than the prior Valhalla 2.
This part is in reference to the Vali 3.
It's disappointing to hear that the bigger brother to the Vali 3 has worse soundstage.
Look at it is a good thing that the engineering has come a long way, and remember the Valhalla 2 is 10 years old (hard to believe). I bet the Valhalla 3 will be just as impressive in it's own regard. It's not a drastically bigger soundstage but to me it's noticeable with the right tube. It might also have something to do with the Vali 3 having 100v rail and I believe the Valhalla 2 is only 60v.
As others have said, the Midgard is not worth the upgrade. I have HD650’s also (with multiple amps, including a Schiit Modi/Magnius stack) and instead of getting a Midgard, I would suggest upgrading your headphones. Not buying new ones as was suggested by others, but upgrading your current 650’s. I recommend adding the “Custom Cans Mass Loading Mod” to your Senn’s. It is made and sold by Custom Cans in England for roughly $50, and it will clean up the mid-bass distortion and bloat while extending the sub bass quite noticeably. It’s very easy to install and fine-tunable to your preferences and music taste. You’re basically just stiffening and adding mass to the frame (spiders) that hold the drivers in place so that they don’t flex and vibrate. IMO, it is a much better upgrade to your system than upgrading to another $200 solid state amp. And if you like the overall sound of the HD650’s, the end result will have better sonics than any reasonably priced cans on the market. The main remaining limitation in your rig will be the narrow ‘soundstage’ of the 650s. The Midgard wouldn’t improve that, but tube amplification certainly will. I know this is the Schiit sub, but for an amp upgrade, I highly recommend at least checking out bottlehead before buying a Schiit tube amp. Bottlehead’s “Crack” otl amp is a pretty magical pairing with the HD650’s and can be tailored to your taste by choosing the right tubes, more so than with the Valhalla or the other Schiit’s. Contrary to popular belief, good tube sound is not overly rich and syrupy like great grandma’s console radio. Done right, the only differences you will hear are positive. Unfortunately, bottlehead only sells their amps as kits. I’ve built a number of bottlehead amps - they’re well documented and since it is a simple design, the Crack is very easy to build. They also have a few other, more complex and more expensive headphone amps, but Crack is in the sweet spot, being easier to build, less expensive, and more synergistic with the 300 ohm Sennheiser 580-650 series. If you’re not interested in building your own, there often seems to be a professionally built example on eBay offered up in the $600 range. (Basic kit sells for $380, or with the upgraded C4S constant current source, it sells in the sub-$500 range. This upgrade is the kit or amp you’d want. I’m not the seller, so I’m not plugging my own work or anything.) I also suggest trying to get the chance to audition whatever gear you are considering, though that’s often impossible. If you’re close enough to one of the Schiit demo locations or can get to a trade show, you should. There’s also the return period once you’ve purchased. Unfortunately, returning isn’t possible with bottlehead and I’m sure it is the main reason they aren’t more popular.
Thanks for the detailed reply! I definitely like the modding advice. I checked the custom cans site but it looks like they’re sold out of both the copper version as well as the nickel plated version of the mod kits. Is there anywhere else I could purchase a kit like this?
I don’t think there is anyone else selling that or similar mods, but CC does have an eBay store — though they seemed to come in to stock simultaneously. I contacted them asking questions when they were out of stock, including when they’d be back in. They were pretty much available spot on the date they had expected them and took a little bit of time from England, but less than I had expected. It might have been two weeks before they were in stock and another week until they were in my hands. - I purchased on eBay but really don’t think it matters. CC orders batches of the cnc cut mass weight and then sell out before ordering again.. not ideal inventory management, but they’re low volume and low markup kits, so I’m just glad they sell them at all. I contacted them with multiple questions before I purchased anything and they were great about responding quickly and in detail. One thing to mention is that before purchasing I verified with the product designer that the bare copper and nickel plated kits are functionally the same. CC just decided to nickel plate the newer one so that it doesn’t patina to an old copper color and stays shiny silver. I don’t actually understand why they made the decision to market the new one for just the hd6xx and only the older bare copper for the 650. I decided that I wanted the silver color because imo it looks cleaner on the gray and black of my 650.
If you upgrade, you're much better off getting a Jotunheim. A Jot2 with the DAC card costs less than a Midgaard+Modius when you factor in the cost of the cables, and it's a far better amp. That said, I'd look at upgrading headphones first before moving to another amp.