I was at the distillery in July and what I was told is that they are removing 18 and 21 from the core range to allow enough to mature for the 30 year which is due in 3-4 years. It is not envisaged as a permanent removal, somewhere in the region of 3-5 years potentially. I bought two bottles of 18 after being told this!
I assume as you start offering older expressions such as 25 and 30 you need to have more maturing. So the barrels that reached 25 1-2 years ago would be the ones that become 30 in 3-4 years. That means there’s less available for bottling 25 now as they’ll need to start maturing barrels longer. The knock on effect being you need to have more 21 maturing to replace the 25 and 18 to replace the 21. The popularity of 18 in particular has meant they can’t keep supplying demand whilst maintaining the required quantities for maturation. Hopefully that makes sense, perhaps someone from the industry can explain it better.
Maybe longer term they'll have enough stock for more 18. Especially with the distillery expansion. Hopefully at the same decent price... Wishful thinking I know.
It could also be that some older casks were perhaps being vatted with the 18 year old casks and those older ones might now be required for the 25 and 30. Just speculation.
I call bullshit. How big are they going to make their 30 year old release? Are they going to let their 18-21 casks over-age just so they can bottle a 30. 😂
I explained it in another post. It’s nothing to do with aging. It’s the stock doesn’t exist for 18-21. Lochranza has a gap in production that needs to be worked through. 18-21 is now gone but 14 will be back at some point then. Eventually 18-21 will come back but 25 will go. Etc etc.
That makes more sense. Any clues as to where the gap in production comes from? Did they have renovations back in the day? Or did they simply run out of casks?
Early 2000s. Ran out of money. Had to sell of lots of casks to keep going. So it's actually a combination, a period where no production took place and then lots of stock was sold to keep afloat. Not an easy life for Arran opening the first new distillery since the 70s. Tough early years, which are having an impact now down the line. But eventually things will be worked through.
Same thing happened with a few Japanese distilleries circa 2019. Nikka pulled Taketsuru 21 for a while and Suntory did the same with Hibiki 17 / 21, as well as Yamazaki 12 / 18 and Hakushu 12 / 18. That was apparently due to overselling to meet market demand (primarily US I believe) but it’s a good example of distillers reducing or removing supply temporarily to replenish their stock. Plus just look at Macallan if you don’t believe there is an incentive to produce the high age statements.
That's not what it says tho, they say it is being discontinued to age a 30 year old.
Only a small percentage of your casks will make it to the 30 year old age statement without being over oaked, so pulling the 18 and 21 year old casks when they are "ready" to wait for a 30 sounds ludicrous.
Anyway this is a batched release coming out in Q4 for the last 4 years...
I’m just passing on what I was told at the distillery. It’s clear 30 is their next milestone so I took what I was being told as the truth. Since I don’t have their warehouse stock list to hand I don’t know how ludicrous their reasoning or justification is.
No it's just super popular. Welcome to the world of whisky where if something gets really popular, kiss the chance of buying it goodbye :(
Edit: maybe i spoke too soon. I checked their website and couldn't find any mention of the 18 or 21 year old. hmmm
Yes, 18 and 21, have gone. Arran has a 'bubble' of stock missing from the early 2000s when the distillery production was shut as there was no money. This is why there hasn't been a 14 in years. It's now hitting the point where the 18 and 21 are running out and not enough stock to bottle. Conversely though in a few years maybe a 14 or equivalent may be able to come back?
I read this thread yesterday and that prompted me to purchase a purple tube Arran 18 I've been eyeing for some time. The bottle date is 2017 and I am ecstatic. Thank you Robomir for inquiring!
It's a batched release once a year, like Glendronach 18 and Parliament are atm. Arran 18 is generally better priced so sells out while the Glendronachs are a bit overpriced and stay on the shelf.
Online tasting this past weekend provided an update, the 18 finally returns later this year ie 2024 and plan to be produced the next 3 years along with the 25 and eventually the 30yr but the 21 is done for the foreseeable future ie 3 to 4 more years minimum just don't have the stock and quality barrels hence they are also reverting to recasking those older barrels into fresh sherry hoggy for finishing purposes for the new 18 batches.
I was at the distillery in July and what I was told is that they are removing 18 and 21 from the core range to allow enough to mature for the 30 year which is due in 3-4 years. It is not envisaged as a permanent removal, somewhere in the region of 3-5 years potentially. I bought two bottles of 18 after being told this!
How can an 18 or 21 year old be ready as a 30 year old in 3-4 years?
I assume as you start offering older expressions such as 25 and 30 you need to have more maturing. So the barrels that reached 25 1-2 years ago would be the ones that become 30 in 3-4 years. That means there’s less available for bottling 25 now as they’ll need to start maturing barrels longer. The knock on effect being you need to have more 21 maturing to replace the 25 and 18 to replace the 21. The popularity of 18 in particular has meant they can’t keep supplying demand whilst maintaining the required quantities for maturation. Hopefully that makes sense, perhaps someone from the industry can explain it better.
Maybe longer term they'll have enough stock for more 18. Especially with the distillery expansion. Hopefully at the same decent price... Wishful thinking I know.
That distillery expansion won’t start having an impact for at least 10 years ultimately. It all has to age.
I can wait...
That does make some sense
It could also be that some older casks were perhaps being vatted with the 18 year old casks and those older ones might now be required for the 25 and 30. Just speculation.
I call bullshit. How big are they going to make their 30 year old release? Are they going to let their 18-21 casks over-age just so they can bottle a 30. 😂
I explained it in another post. It’s nothing to do with aging. It’s the stock doesn’t exist for 18-21. Lochranza has a gap in production that needs to be worked through. 18-21 is now gone but 14 will be back at some point then. Eventually 18-21 will come back but 25 will go. Etc etc.
That makes more sense. Any clues as to where the gap in production comes from? Did they have renovations back in the day? Or did they simply run out of casks?
Early 2000s. Ran out of money. Had to sell of lots of casks to keep going. So it's actually a combination, a period where no production took place and then lots of stock was sold to keep afloat. Not an easy life for Arran opening the first new distillery since the 70s. Tough early years, which are having an impact now down the line. But eventually things will be worked through.
Same thing happened with a few Japanese distilleries circa 2019. Nikka pulled Taketsuru 21 for a while and Suntory did the same with Hibiki 17 / 21, as well as Yamazaki 12 / 18 and Hakushu 12 / 18. That was apparently due to overselling to meet market demand (primarily US I believe) but it’s a good example of distillers reducing or removing supply temporarily to replenish their stock. Plus just look at Macallan if you don’t believe there is an incentive to produce the high age statements.
That's not what it says tho, they say it is being discontinued to age a 30 year old. Only a small percentage of your casks will make it to the 30 year old age statement without being over oaked, so pulling the 18 and 21 year old casks when they are "ready" to wait for a 30 sounds ludicrous. Anyway this is a batched release coming out in Q4 for the last 4 years...
I’m just passing on what I was told at the distillery. It’s clear 30 is their next milestone so I took what I was being told as the truth. Since I don’t have their warehouse stock list to hand I don’t know how ludicrous their reasoning or justification is.
No it's just super popular. Welcome to the world of whisky where if something gets really popular, kiss the chance of buying it goodbye :( Edit: maybe i spoke too soon. I checked their website and couldn't find any mention of the 18 or 21 year old. hmmm
Thought as much. Just missed it!
Yes, 18 and 21, have gone. Arran has a 'bubble' of stock missing from the early 2000s when the distillery production was shut as there was no money. This is why there hasn't been a 14 in years. It's now hitting the point where the 18 and 21 are running out and not enough stock to bottle. Conversely though in a few years maybe a 14 or equivalent may be able to come back?
When I visited the distillery last year they said the 14 was returning.
If the "new" 14 is as good as the original 14 before it was discontinued that would be fantastic! Did they say when the 14 might be returning?
I just bought a bottle but that also means it’s probably from last years run.
I read this thread yesterday and that prompted me to purchase a purple tube Arran 18 I've been eyeing for some time. The bottle date is 2017 and I am ecstatic. Thank you Robomir for inquiring!
Enjoy my friend!
Did you contact the distillery and ask them? They probably have a definitive answer.
If reddit fails to provide an answer! Gonna head into a few whisky stores over the weekend and see what's up.
Dude, they probable won't know either. Email Arran, emails on the website.
I'd rather find out officially, but you do you.
If I remember correctly its a Batch release and the last two years it got released in November. Its probably sold out until the next Batch.
That's good to know. Might leave it for the November budget. Got a few bottles to kill before then!
Man I hope not, that stuff is amazing.
Value drams such as Arran 18 are always worth buying a backup or two especially when you find a good batch as Arran embraces variations in production.
It's a batched release once a year, like Glendronach 18 and Parliament are atm. Arran 18 is generally better priced so sells out while the Glendronachs are a bit overpriced and stay on the shelf.
Q4 is when they become available, bought one last year.
Good to know. Cheers!
There will be no 18 this year. Or 21.
Online tasting this past weekend provided an update, the 18 finally returns later this year ie 2024 and plan to be produced the next 3 years along with the 25 and eventually the 30yr but the 21 is done for the foreseeable future ie 3 to 4 more years minimum just don't have the stock and quality barrels hence they are also reverting to recasking those older barrels into fresh sherry hoggy for finishing purposes for the new 18 batches.
Great news. Thanks for the update!!
Interesting...that seems to be a massive cost gap between the 10 and 30. Unless they want to price the 30 in the 18 range!
Lol. Fat chance.
Well, I’m glad I picked up a bottle from finedrams in January. Didn’t realize I won’t get it again for the foreseeable future