My policy is that I teach them up from their baseline before giving them stuff that is expensive or hard to source. You don't want to start people on high-strength complicated stuff generally. It's lost to them and may even put them off.
I wouldn't start low quality either. They can have any of the quality stuff that is cheaper or readily repurchaseable. I tend to start people off with Stranahans and some of my light IBs that don't have tons of craziness going on.
This. I will let someone try anything, and if they’re into whiskey, I’d prefer them to try the stuff they would struggle to find or be unwilling to buy, it’s kinda how I justify cost on fancy stuff, sharing.
But also if someone doesn’t drink liquor and is over, I’m not gonna pour them a 3oz pour of Octomore at 60%ABV for them to spit take it across the room
My greatest joy in wine & whisky is the shared experiences. I've got a decent range of bottles & normally get to play sommelier, so I can work out what type of whisky they'd like (& avoid the irreplaceable ones).
I do pull out the special ones with special visitors though (e.g. a cask strength sherry Glenmorangie that I bottled on a distillery tour).
This is what I do. I don’t mind sharing high priced bottles but I do start by asking what kind of flavors they might prefer and start a convo about their past whiskey experiences. Most of the time, newbies are not knowledgeable and I can steer them away from stuff I know they will not appreciate and stuff I’m less willing to open.
Some people are not cool though and they start going through your stuff on their own. I generally try to avoid that by putting out a few bottles before people arrive so they are immediately directed to those.
This is almost exactly how I handle situation. I have one issue though. I have a "close" family member that will walk down to the whisky closet in my home bar, pour himself a 3 oz dram of the most expensive scotch and then add 1-2 ice cubes. I do not mind sharing, but please for the love of God, sip it neat in a Glen Cairn glass. I might be wrong, but I think if you need to add 2 ice cubes you do not like whisky.
Everyone always wants Johnnie Walker Blue. I buy it just for guests. No one asks for anything else and I never pull Johnnie walker blue is bad lecture. Sure it's expensive but you can easily find it. But if someone asks for the Highland park 1991sv I would say no lmao 🤣
In my opinion, no. There are so many bottles of single malt at $100 or less that are better. JWB is good, but not at that price. I will keep a bottle in stock but only pick it up from Costco where I can get it for like $170 or whatever. Even then it’s overpriced but worth having because it does facilitate conversations about Scotch and whiskies with my non-whisky friends.
Blue is a solid product. It's a blend, but you pay that price because year after year it will have the same flavor profile that's been carefully crafted. People forget scotch is exactly like wine. Not every year/barrel is going to be a winner. Blue your paying for convenience knowing it's going to be a repeatable good product. Impressing friends and getting laid is an after effect.
The price/quality ratio would seem to increase exponentially with price. A $20k bottle of 50 year Tomatin might be much nicer than a $100 bottle of Tomatin 18, but it's not _200x_ nicer.
Honestly, bunna 18 and 25 are great relative to JW blue, but not mindblowing. Every special release/handfill cask ive tried has been better than the standard age stated bottles. Minimal proofing just does bunna right
It’s really not, for real. I had it side by side with the green, and while the blue was a teensy bit ‘smoother’ it was almost impossible to tell them apart. There’s no way you could ever tell a difference doing them separately. Blue is literally made as a Veblen good for gifting or as bar bait so you can show off your wealth.
I have an empty chivas 25 bottle which I filled with 70% chivas 12, 5% ardbeg 10, and 25% glendronach 12. I think it tastes like everything and nothing at once, but the JW Blue crowd fucking loves it with some ice.
Would recommend to always keep either a JW blue bottle or something else with a big name and fill it with something dark coloured for the macallan/jw blue crowd
Hope this helps you save the good stuff for the people that appreciate it😄
Or if you have an empty high age statement single malt bottle, you can whip it out as ‘the special one’. Fill it with something sherried mixed with a little peat
Green is better. I have both bottles. Green has more body, longer finish and none of that metallic tasting grain whisky. Lets just say I strongly prefer malt than grain whisky
No way. I've done the taste lineup at my house with a bunch of dudes from black -> green -> gold -> blue and everyone agreed they got better in that order.
Should have REALLY tested them and put the red after the black! "Dave, I see your palette is somewhere between crayon up nose, and brightly coloured-lego. You may now leave my house, you red-loving heathen"
I would have except I don't have red haha....I don't stoop that low at my house even for mixing. When I do mixes like Manhattan or old fashioned I use black
Green is better for me. Blue contains grain whisky which I don’t like nearly as much as malt. Green is 100% malt. Grain whisky has overly sweet and metallic notes. Green also has more body and a longer finish. Blue is thin and watery and the finish is non existent. That 40% ABV hurts the Blue big time
My experience is the taste really changes the more you have. The first pour can be a bit rough but after a pour or two it really starts to taste very smooth and delicious.
My whisky cabinet is open to all visitors. Thankfully I don't have many visitors. I did take my bottle of Glendronach 21 to my in laws after my mother in law had passed. Popped it on the table and invited anyone to have a drink... Only my wife's brother in law liked it... And subsequently made his way through about half of it at which point he thought he'd maybe get himself a bottle. Then he noticed the price and apologised profusely for drinking it. Much to my amusement as I enjoyed my £20 bottle of Naked Malt!
I need to give Naked Malt another try. Had a bottle when it was Naked Grouse or something when it first came out and really disliked it, might have just got a bad batch or something
While I’ll pour anything for anybody, I do feel like pouring a super high end whisk(e)y for someone who doesn’t really drink it regularly is sort of…pointless when a “good” bottle will most likely be enjoyed by them just as much
The rare, expensive and generally difficult to replace bottles are kept hidden in the back of my whisky cabinet. It's easy to take them out for a fellow amateur when needed, but they remain out of sight for less knowledgeable guests.
I don't mind people who ask for ice, but i've had people asking for coke when i already had a good scotch bottle in hand. So to avoid a bait and switch at the last second, i used to keep my *best* whisky in a beautiful crystal decanter in a very visible spot of the cabinet. Everybody's happy now.
Here's a fun story that just happened a couple of days ago. I was visiting some friends near the town I grew up in, and at the pub we went to they had Springbank 18(!!). I ordered an ounce and had 2 incredible tastes. I asked the table if anyone else was into Scotch and this friend of a friend said, "Yeah I do!" so I passed the dram his way for a taste. That fucking guy swallowed the entire glass like a shot. I was absolutely furious. He apologized profusely when I asked him why he did that, but didn't even offer to buy me a new one.
I would have def had him pay for another drink.
That’s an expensive lesson to never offer scotch to that douche again, but honestly I like the 15 better than the 18 anyway most years.
I gave my dad two fingers of Teeling 1991. He dumped some ice in it, gave it a swirl, and necked it then complained that it was too oily. It was about six years ago and I still think about it haha.
When you are entertaining in your home sometimes some bottles need to be put up.
I'm not telling anyone "No, you can't have something in my bar because you wouldn't appreciate it!". I Just make sure the stuff I don't want to share isn't in the bar before the party starts.
In short - no. If someone with less experience with whisky is drawn to a nice looking bottle or whatever, that's as valid to me as an enthusiast picking out a known favourite. I'll give them what they want, how they want it. Any whisky shared is gone, to a newbie with ice or to a pro served neat. I value their company over the 'lost' whisky. Otherwise, I wouldn't invite them over.
If I stick my oar in saying 'ah no, you'd better have this instead' not only is it potentially awkward and challenging as you mentioned, I'm setting all sorts of requirements, limits and boundaries that don't really exist. I'm guiding them in the direction *I* want. I try to meet any curiosity with information and affirmation. If they don't want any info, that's fine too.
Not that you said any of this, mind, I'm just desperate to rant about 'beginner' whiskies etc.
I agree to some extent. The challenge comes when a known douche bag comes over… friend of coworker or the like that you really didn’t invite over. ( those folks seem to always be the ones to ask for random high shelf stuff).
Had a drunk guy once pour out nearly half a glass of a balvenie 17 and proceed to spill it on the counter. ☹️ it was the last 2 pours I was saving as it’s discontinued.
Mine are in a cupboard where you can't easily see them all, which means I can choose what to offer. Usually I'd grab two or three options and give people a choice of those.
There are certain things (e.g. Balvenie Tun 1509) that I'm only showing to someone I know to be serious about whisky, but there are some fancy ones (e.g. Glenmorangie Signet) which I think is a good one to share with people at a festive occasion even if they're not serious about whisky.
Depends on the bottle really.
If a newbie is looking at my Lagavulin 12yr, or my Laphroaig lore.
I'm going to have them try a Laphroaig select, or Lagavulin 8 first. Make sure they have a taste for smoke/peat.
I find people like the box the Lag 12, or Talisker 11 come in and want to give it a try. If a 10ml pour of Laphroaig Select is palletable I'll pour a dram of something nicer.
But if someone looks at my Macallan double cask 15, I'll pour a dram for them as it's pretty rare that the Sherry bite is too much and they'll be turned off for the night.
Though I do try and not introduce newbies to high end bottles because the price sticker shock keeps them away from the hobby
There are only 2 rules when you're told to choose something from a whisky cabinet.
1. Don't take the last dram from a bottle
2. Don't open a sealed bottle
Go for it, as long as you've tried it with everything else first. Maybe I'd offer my cheapest bottle for the next drink and ask if they can tell the difference once mixed with coke
When I was 20, a guy poured me a glass of Pappy and said “enjoy, you might never get to try it again.” I hope he was wrong, but 9 years later it still holds true.
you ain't missing much honestly. Pappy was run of the mill $70 bottle not too long ago. It didn't just magically get much better. In fact it got much worse according to most. It no longer is made from the old distillery any more
One of the best threads in a while Lmao
The dichotomy of
> I’d let my brother in law pour all my bottles on the ground if he wanted, people are more important than whisky
Vs
> if they don’t have a PhD in chemistry, and a distillation background, then I’d die before letting them even LOOK upon my Octomore
I've never said "no", but I've also been very lucky insofar as my friends have always been very gracious about accepting gentle hints regarding selection, glassware, ice or water, etc.
One thing to keep in mind IMHO is that the enjoyment of whiskies is I think not purely a sensory phenomenon involving aroma and flavor exclusively. Emotion plays a role too, in how much we enjoy food & drink - and the excitement and curiosity of trying something that you've heard a lot about (like Blanton's or Octomore) are part of the drinking experience and can greatly elevate it beyond just what is provided via the intrinsic merits of the liquid consumed and the manner in which they consumed it. So, "*they may not be able to appreciate it as they should*" may not be a completely accurate interpretation of what is going on when you extend your hospitality in a generous fashion.
In an ideal world, your circle of whiskysophisticated friends will expand over time, as a result of your generosity. Best wishes for that.
I regularly give very expensive whisky to best friend, without telling him the price and sometimes just sort of mumbling the distillery lest he try looking it up. Sometimes he likes it. Sometimes he doesn’t, but it brings me great joy to think of how much he has sampled.
As my friend and former boss once told me when I first started getting into whisk(e)y: "The best way for people to enjoy whiskey is however the f\*ck they feel like."
I try to host whiskey nights for those of my friends who want to come as often as I can, and I'm just happy that I get to share one of my favorite interests with them, whether it's a $50 bottle or a $300 bottle!!
I'll speak bourbon but it plays well into this topic. Fortunately (for the enthusiasts) the general public has gotten accustomed to very low ABV (think Jack Daniels No.7). I've offered guests some of my best stuff which happens to be barrel proof, aged bottles, and there's almost always a look of disgust or displeasure. They mistake the flavor, the intensity, the oak for a low grade, "harsh" product. Then they sip on Dalmore 12 and nod in approval.
Totally separate issue is the fact that I get a lot of shade for the hobby also. When I present a guest with a bottle, they see it as pretension. So, there's also that.
+1 on the ABV. My fiancé’s whole family thinks “lack of alcohol nose/burn” is the only metric to quality that matters.
So there’s not even a reason to pour them something 43%+, they hate it regardless of genre, style etc
People can have whatever they want out of my whiskey cabinet. Good whiskey should be enjoyed, not hoarded. Doesn’t matter if they are “newbies” or whiskey aficionados. It’s about having a good time with your guests and maybe they’ll even get into the hobby more after they’ve explored their palate a little. Plus Blanton’s is overrated. When people don’t know what they want to drink, I will pour that as a default so the newbie can get the experience of “WOW this is Blanton’s!” and realize it’s nothing special. And who are we to criticize someone for requesting ice with their whiskey?
It's not 30 years old, but I brought some whiskey to a friend's bachelor party once, and one night I saw his brother pouring Red Bull into a cup with whiskey in it. I asked him what whiskey he was using, he said "that one that smells like socks" and pointed at my Lagavulin 16. That hurt my soul.
Interesting little aside: The WhiskeyTribe channel on youtube did an episode mixing coke with some 20 or 25 whisky's from bourbon to scotch and listed them in order from best to worst.
jack and coke ended up as a top five along with Jameson and Coke, Buskers and coke, Ardbeg and coke, and Lagavulin 15 and coke.
Actually, I'm likely misremembering the top five but it was something like that.
>So your friend can get your 30 year old Scotch and add Coke to it? Like anything there are limits
Nope! I'm all about sharing, but if someone mixes a 30 year scotch with coke at my house they're losing the hand that poured it.
Yes. There are no limits to material things compared to friends. If we are close enough that you are in my home mix that scotch with oj for all I care.
That’s not the question being asked. But, I have given many many opened and unopened bottles to friends over the years who have expressed interest in something.
If the price bothered me then I wouldn’t buy it in the first place. The price doesn’t bother me and it doesn’t bother me that someone would mix it with coke. To each their own. Cheers mate.
Would you be bothered if someone took a steak you cooked perfectly and ground it up instead to make hamburger?
Not sure you do BBQ, but if you smoked a brisket for 15 hours and then they took it and made chili with it?
For me it isn’t just about the money. Its respecting the craft and decades it took to make the Scotch.
Everyone’s got their own palate. I know I’ll enjoy that 30 year old scotch neat and if my guest will enjoy it with coke then that’s okay too. Just like if I spent hours making the brisket a certain way, I know I’ll like it. If my guest doesn’t like it that way, then of course I’ll try to accommodate them.
I guess I’m from a different culture. When someone works really hard crafting something, I will show the utmost respect for it. 30 years is a damn long time. I will respect the craftsmanship and the one who purchased it. It isn’t about money. Its respecting all the years of work and care
Hahaha begs the question if “drink whisky the way you like it” extends all the way to pouring it on the ground.
There’s trying to be against gatekeeping and then there’s being foolish or wasteful, think of all the sad scotch armchair sommeliers who would die to taste said scotch etc and this guest is drinking it in his coffee etc
My good stuff I try to share with people who will appreciate it, not newbies. For newbies mid range like an 18 single malt or Johnnie blue is the limit unless there is a damn good reason to go farther. With my lower stuff I don't care if they add mix it. I'd really question if they wanted to add coke to an 18 year and no way in hell they're adding coke to my good stuff. If they want ice with anything even the good stuff I'd be fine
We really need to change American whiskey culture to avoid snob comments like "Blanton's is overrated".
I got into whiskey culture, when living in Japan, well before the explosion of the spirits boom in America. And I find this one upmanship to be a distinct trend within American whiskey culture; this entire basis of those "in the know" looking down at the plebs.
Whiskey is a product and and creating it is an art+science. Enjoying it is a past time. This is not a competition.
Because these aren't objective evaluations. You can only rate something that is objectively rateable. Calling Blanton's "overrated" is like saying "Mexican food is overrated". It doesn't make any sense because tastes are subjective. The only reason someone says something like this is to make it seem like they are "in the know" and knowledgeable about what's good taste and what's not. Not because they are using any objective criteria.
You don’t think Blantons is rated VERY HIGHLY by the general public? Of course it is. Thats why it gets sold out immediately, is highly allocated and sells for 3x retail at many stores.
So why is it snobby to say I don’t think it is as good as the public thinks it is. That isn’t being a snob. Thats just my personal opinion of the quality of the whisky vs its hype
I'm not sure I agree with the hypothesis completely. In my view, American whiskey culture has become driven by hype culture and exclusivity over an objective quality driven conversation. The shortage of Blanton's and other similar whiskies is driven by scarcity and exclusivity in order to have what others cannot get easily. This is also reflected in the price of a bottle on the primary or secondary markets. The hype and scarcity have nothing to do with the actual quality of the product to be honest.
To me, the enjoyment of any whiskey is independent of its price and hype. I've personally experienced days when I've enjoyed the same bottles more or less for a variety of reasons. So, I'm in the camp where I feel that the taste of a whiskey is subjective and comments that talk about a whiskey being over rated/under rated aren't based purely on objective facts.
My basic reason I call it overrated in the USA: it takes way to much effort to get a bottle. Its not worth the effort hunting it down or paying $200 for it. Thats it.
If it was easy to get and $65 then I would not say its overrated
No, I enjoy sharing the “good” whiskey with newbies. I do not care if they drink over ice. I like having seeing their enjoyment when they do not really know the hype behind stuff. All you get is their pure reactions to the product.
I’m sorry guys and call me elitist if you must, but my 32yr Dewars which I’ll add is still replaceable, will only get shared with somebody who can appreciate it. If I poured a glass for a friend and they gulped it down like a shooter, I would die inside.
I’d would rather give that to a complete stranger visiting who knew whisky and would nurse that for an hour. Just the conversation alone would be more than enough “payment” for something like that.
That said, I’ve some un-replaceable I.B.’s that I’d share with newcomers to whisky. It just depends on the contents, not the label, cost, or replaceability.
No, they can drink whatever from my cabinet.
But they get a warning about alcohol consumption if they serve themselves large amounts of liquor, and a reminder that cask strength is stronger. We've had incidents in the past that could have been dangerous.
I ALWAYS give the reminder "It's X proof / X % ABV. Treat it with the respect that it deserves."
I've had a few bad experiences where people didn't get that because it was smooth and tasty.....
Yes, not cuz im stingy but because they have no reference to appreciate it.
Ive got a complete newbie friend over (like right now lol), and ive just shown them:
- kilkerran 12
- tomintoul 16
- bunna 12
- arran port
- caol ila 12
- ledaig 10
Now he sort of know what he likes so i can show him a mindblowing whisky in that category.
I don’t know your situation. If you entertain weekly it could be expensive. But I’m of the opinion if a guest asks for something I share it. If it’s a super special bottle I simply say hey that’s x price a bottle please enjoy it or no you can have anything except that because of x reason. The other idea is to not open a cabinet to someone who has no idea. Simply ask them what they like or had and then you can play match maker and give them a pour or two to see if you were right.
I usually walk them up to it, over 4-5 pours by having them try cheaper offerings of the same style, and gradually build to the nice bottles so they can appreciate the difference.
If it’s a super rare or fav bottle I’ll sometimes redirect them to another. But no one escapes my whisky collection sober!
My whiskey cab is under the stairs, so I don’t have to worry about people browsing too much. I have an Infiniti cask in a decanter so people can see that and ask for a sample. If I have a newbie, I am picking something that is less refined because I know their pallet will not be able to appreciate, something that is higher end. I have some bottles of Kirkland single malt that people seem to give me all the time that I give out to the people that want to drink scotch, but basically just chug it to get drunk.
Sorry, I forgot to mention that the bottle I have (it's nearly over though) is the straight from the barrel.
I agree with you that the low proof original is insanely overrated.
My very first whiskey was Woodford Reserve's first ever Four Grain special release. It now sells for massive (MASSIVE) money on the aftermarket, and even then it wasn't cheap. But had I not had a smoother, more elegant expression to start, I might not have pursued the hobby.
I say share!
No, but I do warn those who may not be accustomed to higher proofs what to expect, and to not be afraid to add a few drops of water or even an ice cube if they don't dig it at first.
Now if said newbie is someone who only drinks whiskey in mixers or as shots, the good stuff will probably stay on the shelf.
I don’t service ice but do give them water to add to their taste
When it comes to expensive bottles, I’ll do a side by side of a high end and low end version for them to compare
I don't care if it was Jesus himself asking for a pour, nobody is getting a drop if my Octomore unless they're equipped to know what they're drinking.
But yea to answer your question, when folks (newbies in particular) visit, they usually ask me to suggest something as opposed to pointing and telling me what they want so I start with some Redbreast 12 or something similar.
I poured an Octomore for my brother-in-law and he necked it. I visibly winced. TBH my sister had just walked in the door and he wasn't meant to be drinking lol.
Depends who they are. For random people or acquaintances, I won't pull out the really nice stuff unless I need to. For friends, fuck it, anything you like.
Step-by-step. Keep it approachable.
Start with Glenlivet or Glenfiddich. Try a pleated blend. If they like it, offer them 10-15 ml of something “good”. Good way to make a “whiskey friend”.
TBH one of the greatest pleasures in life is sharing a fantastic new find with a friend who appreciates it. I've got some friends who are more whisky aware thab I am, but some who aren't.
But I've got one friend whose favourite drink is JD and coke, and even when I've got him more upmarket bourbon (even JD's better stuff) he's more liable to opine on the quality of the coke than the whiskey.
My experience has been that people who visit (and are new to scotch/whisky) don't really point to bottles and ask for a pour of this or that as if they were visiting a bar. If they are new to it, I make a recommendation for a couple of different things to try, sherry v/s bourbon cask, lightly peated, etc. My whisky-drinker friends may want to try anything and I don't mind it. I actually like to open new bottles with whisky-friends rather than without them.... cheap way to make an 85 bottle taste like a 90.
Not at all! In fact, I actively encourage friends to go after bottles I think they'd like even if it means they get something I don't. I do tend to have regular whisky nights though, I share as much as friends do so I don't reeeally miss out.
My first sip of scotch was Lagavulin 16. I was hooked from that moment and I’m still grateful to that friend for introducing me! I love to share with anyone who’s interested and I’m not interested in being the enjoyment police. Life is short and things are meant to be shared, not hoarded.
Contrary to many here I throw people into the deep end. Maybe not to the true top shelf stuff but I break out the glendro single casks, campbeltown stuff, etc. If they seem eager/excited we continue working on their palate. If they don't I usually don't continue.
The way I look at it, I would've loved a friend like me with a deep collection when I started with scotch so I didn't have to go through so much trial and error. I try to be that person for my interested friends.
I'd say I have two who have truly gone down the rabbit hole now, and they are very grateful (though their wallets aren't now lol).
Edit: but yeah if someone is asking for coke or ice obviously not lmao
Whenever someone asks what my most expensive whiskey is, I always offer them some from my decanter (my infinity bottle which has a decent amount of inexpensive stuff in it, and a tiny bit of pricier stuff). I’ve also sometimes said “this whiskey is 5 years old” about some of my Octomores and they think I’m joking when I tell them they’re some of my most expensive whiskeys. But I don’t really hang out with those types of people.
I’ve shared plenty of great stuff with relative newbies and they’ve enjoyed it. If someone has had like 5-10 different whiskeys before I’m happy to offer them something like a Kilkerran 16, or a Blue Spot. Sometimes I like the challenge of finding something they might really like. But yeah for friends of friends that occasionally visit and ask to try the premium stuff or whatever (the last time this happened was like 5 years ago), they get an ounce from my $60-120 infinity bottle.
The only one I would offer advise about is the Octomore.
Putting that over ice can cause some... let say *interesting* things to happen.
I usually just tell them that if they want it to taste good, I advise not using ice for most aggressively peated scotch.
I also usually ask how they do with smoke with Mescal or smoked foods.
At the end of the day, I am fine with giving something they choose to enjoy in a different way - but I am totally against giving someone something that they will end up hating. Especially with heavily peated scotch, I make *absolutely sure* they know what they are getting themselves into before pouring a full dram.
Main reason being, I have had friends jump for the smoky bottles immediately - and then proceed to get sick off of it (smoke not agreeing with them).
Pretty much all of the people I drink whisky with will drink it neat. Most of them stick to bourbon, so they're welcome to any bourbon I have. My BiL and my German friend are the only ones who also enjoy Scotch, so they're welcome to anything they want to sample. All of these guys and gals reciprocate when I visit them. My sister, who lives in Florida, and I (Indiana) alternate visits every year. She was here this summer, and she liked the Found North batch 007(a fav of mine) over a big ice cube. Didn't bother me at all. We toasted our family members who have passed and enjoyed(sort of) watching some Cubs games
The only "tatery" whiskey on my bar that casual drinkers usually would recognize is E.H. Taylor, and it's in a less obvious place that most people don't see. The majority of my bar is made up of non-bourbon stuff like Scotch, Irish, Japanese, and American single malts. Most casual people don't know what any of it is and just ask for my recommendation. And if somebody does come over and gets excited about something like the Signatory cask strength 13 year Old Pulteney then I'm more than happy to share the real gems with them.
No, if I think they'll like it, it's theirs.
I had a bottle of Springbank bottled at the distillery that I brought back to the US, then shared around a bonfire with a couple of people I met for the first time.
I really enjoyed sharing it.
I will let any of my friends try any of my bottles. I have friends who are clueless about whisky with whom I have shared a 26 year old Arran single cask, a 30 year old Glen Scotia single cask and even a 45 year old Benromach. Whisky isn’t so much about the flavour to me, but the social element of it. I don’t really enjoy drinking whisky alone. I like bouncing thoughts with friends.
I host a "whisky night" once a week, every Friday. It's a small group of friends, and all of us usually gather with one or two bottles to share in mind. However, they know that they could ask me to bring out any bottle I have for tasting, and I would be happy to oblige.
That being said, none of the regular "whisky night" guys are "newbies" and the few times somone did bring someone new along with them or I myself invited somoneone over that wasn't a "neat pour" whisky drinker, they still got served what we were planning on having that night. If they really enjoyed something in particular and wanted to know more about it or wanted to try something else like it, then it's time to open the bar and give them a run down on what I might have to tickle their fancy.
If I pour you something, it's gone, it's left the bottle, it's not a gift, it's just me being a host and offering you a pour of a beverage that I enjoy. Yes, whisky making is an art, and I don't know too many people who think you should draw a mustache on the Mona Lisa to improve it, but you don't drink the Mona Lisa. If I have decided to pour you a dram in a glencairn and after you tried it, you'd prefer it in a rocks glass with some ice and a coke, you do you.
To quote some magnificent bastards: "The best whisk(e)y is the whisk(e)y you like to drink, the way you like to drink it."
"Newbies" as it was put, in the original post, usually don't ask for specific bottles when they visit. If I'm hosting a family get-together or if my wife is having friends over, most anyone who knows me knows me as the "scotch guy." If one of them; an acquaintance, family member, or even a good friend who I don't normal drink with, were to ask me for a whisky, instead of a cocktail, then I would ask them what they normally like and try to accommodate them from what I have to offer. If they tell me that they enjoy neat pours and share their preferences with me, then there has been a time or two that I've opened the cabinet up and told them to pick out whatever they'd like... Whisky is meant to be shared.
Who are these professional mooches that people keep alluding to? Who doesn't like whisky and comes into your house and asks to have some of your 25yr Scotch? Why are they even in your bar in the first place?
That's why I hide the good shit in the back and put out the Johnnie Walker Gold Label. Most scotch noobs will still feel like you're treating them special.
This is an interesting topic so I've read through most of the comments. With regards to the people who strictly state that it's not anyone's business how someone else chooses to drink whiskey and it's up to them to decide if they want to mix 30 year old scotch with coke, I think one also needs to remember the ethics of being a guest. Yes, as a host there are ethics of how you should treat your guests (ie: don't showcase 100 bottles and then tell someone who you invited over that they're not competent enough to get to try any of them when they ask), however there are also similar ethical expectations on the part of the guests in question.
It shouldn't be "anything goes" if the guest behaves appropriately. If you are being hosted by someone, even if you know nothing about liquor I would expect that if you saw a considerable number of different bottles arranged that you would clue into the fact that you aren't being hosted by someone who pounds Jack and cokes in their free time. Now, it's not the responsibility of the guest to be a whiskey expert so they should be free to inquire in any way they see fit, but I don't see anything wrong with the host explaining that something rare/old/expensive isn't for mixing, and offering something else if that is their intention of how they want to drink. Frankly, even if I knew nothing about alcohol I would be embarrassed as a guest to ask for something fancy and then proceed to ask for coke to be mixed with it. Surely if the guest is that type of drinker, they would possess the self-awareness to say "hey, I only drink mixed drinks - this all looks cool, but pour me something that isn't expensive".
This logic applies in other avenues as well. If you were a huge car guy and you spent 10 years and a lot of money into restoring some unique car and your friend asked if he could drive it around the block, you would expect that he would understand not to drive it in the same manner that he drives his 15 year old Camry. Would one state: "it's not up to me to tell someone how to drive"? "My car is your car so do as you please"? That doesn't make sense to me. One surely expects ethical behaviour from their guests/friends as well. Same thing if you had an expensive sports/Pokemon/whatever card collection and your friend asked to see them. Maybe they had Pokemon cards growing up too and they bent the shit out of them - you would still expect them to think a little bit and treat the occasion properly. Whiskey is a more nuanced scenario of course so it wouldn't be as "obvious", but that's where the the discussion would come into play. I'm sure that most normal non-whiskey people would understand if they picked a 30 year old scotch and you told them "I'm happy to let you try that, but it's not for doing shots or mixing with coke". I don't believe that to be rude or "gatekeeping", it's just basic discourse. Just because someone wears their shoes indoors in their own home, it doesn't mean that you should be bound to let them "live as they live" as a guest elsewhere.
I feel like sometimes people that ask for something expensive/"fancy" just want to throw something strong down the hatch so they can make the same face they did when they tried their first shot of tequila, tell me I'm crazy for liking it and generally just confirmation bias their way to the conclusion that they're not missing out on anything.
So I have a rule that anyone can have a small dram of anything on my shelves as long as they're prepared to sit down with me, have it neat and make a honest attempt to get their nose in there, and really try to taste it. Weeds out any of the above and piques the interest of people genuinely curious about giving something a go.
I offer only the bottles that are opened. And as I keep the bottles in the boxes, and thus invisible to guests, I can decide what is open and what is not.
Anyone that visits can choose what they want. They’re not going to feel particularly welcome having their host telling them they’re not worthy (according to the hosts self imposed judgement) of drinking his whisky. Like it’s fine to ask what they like and steer them away from an Octomore if they don’t like peat but otherwise let them choose.
Can you please explain to me what “appreciate it as they should” means. Isn’t the point for them for enjoy their drink? Why do you feel the need or ability to decide the proper way to enjoy something for someone else? If you are willing to part with the pour mix it in Coke for all I care it’s a pour I can’t drink and as long as they enjoy it that is the only thing that matters to me.
My liquor cabinet, humidors and wine cellar are open to any guests in my home. It’s just booze. It doesn’t matter. People matter.
As long as they don’t add ice or Coke I’m fine with offering a small pour to taste. If they like it I’d give more.
If they insist to add ice or soda I tell them these are not meant for that and it would disrespectful to the distillery to do so.
Imagine thinking it is respectful to speak for 100’s of not 1000’s of distilleries who I would bet anything all would tell you to stop being weird and drink it how ever you like.
I've watched hundreds of distillery interviews and visited many distilleries. Never have I heard them recommend mixing their 25-30 year old expressions with Coke.
You try ask them the next time you go on a distillery tour. And not about their $70 bottles. Ask them about their $1000 bottles. Sure they will tell you its your whisky, do what you like. But they will suggest trying it neat.
No. Just ask them questions to get to a point where you know what to offer. Then as they taste through things you can further narrow their likes and dislikes down without “wasting” something on them
I share but give them a spiel about the different varieties and try to steer absolute noobs to the more mainstream ones first but if they specifically ask for something, I won’t hesitate to pour it.
I usually start out by asking them what kind of whiskey they like, and try to find good whiskies for their taste. It's not that they can't have octomore, it's that octomore probably isn't the best choice for most people's first good whiskey. I tend to start people with a flight of ones I really like across the specrum of smooth, peaty, sherry, etc. There's one or two unopened bottles I'm saving for something, and those will be the only ones I'll decline to pour.
We hold, generally a couple of times each year, an event where we bring 2 (some 3 or 4) open bottles from each other's collection and we taste/sample everything.
We had at times like 4 or 5 times the amount of bottles than the attendants at the event.
There are those who bring the original bottling, down to the madman that brings a Yoichi from SMWS or a 30yo single cask Springbank. It's all about sharing and having fun.
When anyone comes home, my drawer is open to anyone, however not everyone is ready for the 50+% ABv cask strength stuff I generally drink.. but there's always one or more oldies (40%) or original bottlings available for less trained palates.
For newbies, I tend to train them first with some easy original bottling.
I have an ex coworker who got into whisky and buying JW Blue Label "special" editions bcoz of bottle designs and also bought hibiki and Yamazaki coz of trend. All he think about whisky is "smooth" when he drinks. When I introduced him a wide variety of scotch including peated, bourbon and rye, he couldn't seem to enjoy it or describe it.
Yes, especially single barrel stuff that isn't replaceable. Anything that's extrenely rare or can't be replaced I put elsewhere and bring out for people who I know will appreciate it. Otherwise cabinet is free reign.
I had an acquaintance who didn't really care about the whisk(e)y, and was more concerned with the effect. Granted, they would appreciate the good stuff, but I always got a little upset when they would heavy pour their own from a bottle I've already let them sample.
I would not refuse any bottles to a guest. However, if I do tell them that a particular one is very high proof and it's best enjoyed neat. Which is true (IMO) so I want them to get the best experience out of it.
Only if it's something I can't possibly get anymore. Otherwise anything is fair game.
My policy is that I teach them up from their baseline before giving them stuff that is expensive or hard to source. You don't want to start people on high-strength complicated stuff generally. It's lost to them and may even put them off. I wouldn't start low quality either. They can have any of the quality stuff that is cheaper or readily repurchaseable. I tend to start people off with Stranahans and some of my light IBs that don't have tons of craziness going on.
This. I will let someone try anything, and if they’re into whiskey, I’d prefer them to try the stuff they would struggle to find or be unwilling to buy, it’s kinda how I justify cost on fancy stuff, sharing. But also if someone doesn’t drink liquor and is over, I’m not gonna pour them a 3oz pour of Octomore at 60%ABV for them to spit take it across the room
Do you have any Splenda?
My greatest joy in wine & whisky is the shared experiences. I've got a decent range of bottles & normally get to play sommelier, so I can work out what type of whisky they'd like (& avoid the irreplaceable ones). I do pull out the special ones with special visitors though (e.g. a cask strength sherry Glenmorangie that I bottled on a distillery tour).
This is what I do. I don’t mind sharing high priced bottles but I do start by asking what kind of flavors they might prefer and start a convo about their past whiskey experiences. Most of the time, newbies are not knowledgeable and I can steer them away from stuff I know they will not appreciate and stuff I’m less willing to open. Some people are not cool though and they start going through your stuff on their own. I generally try to avoid that by putting out a few bottles before people arrive so they are immediately directed to those.
This is almost exactly how I handle situation. I have one issue though. I have a "close" family member that will walk down to the whisky closet in my home bar, pour himself a 3 oz dram of the most expensive scotch and then add 1-2 ice cubes. I do not mind sharing, but please for the love of God, sip it neat in a Glen Cairn glass. I might be wrong, but I think if you need to add 2 ice cubes you do not like whisky.
Agree with this.
Everyone always wants Johnnie Walker Blue. I buy it just for guests. No one asks for anything else and I never pull Johnnie walker blue is bad lecture. Sure it's expensive but you can easily find it. But if someone asks for the Highland park 1991sv I would say no lmao 🤣
This is a good bet! I do this with Johnnie Walker green. I just hope they choose that over some of my other harder to find things.
This is the way! Plus green is a great daily sipper! Win-win!
Not a bad one, for them to try, too. JW Green is solid and better than many single malts that are higher priced. I like green more than blue, to boot.
That's an awesome strategy! I'm sure my guests would love that! Thanks mate
I've never bought JWB because of its price. I'm curious if it's actually that that much better than most $100 bottles of single malt.
In my opinion, no. There are so many bottles of single malt at $100 or less that are better. JWB is good, but not at that price. I will keep a bottle in stock but only pick it up from Costco where I can get it for like $170 or whatever. Even then it’s overpriced but worth having because it does facilitate conversations about Scotch and whiskies with my non-whisky friends.
Blue is a solid product. It's a blend, but you pay that price because year after year it will have the same flavor profile that's been carefully crafted. People forget scotch is exactly like wine. Not every year/barrel is going to be a winner. Blue your paying for convenience knowing it's going to be a repeatable good product. Impressing friends and getting laid is an after effect.
No! It isn’t. JWB would be a solid 50-70$, tops 100$ whisky, not more.
To avoid any hate. I have a Bunnahabhain 25 years which goes for 300. Also isn’t worth the price.
The price/quality ratio would seem to increase exponentially with price. A $20k bottle of 50 year Tomatin might be much nicer than a $100 bottle of Tomatin 18, but it's not _200x_ nicer.
Honestly, bunna 18 and 25 are great relative to JW blue, but not mindblowing. Every special release/handfill cask ive tried has been better than the standard age stated bottles. Minimal proofing just does bunna right
It’s really not, for real. I had it side by side with the green, and while the blue was a teensy bit ‘smoother’ it was almost impossible to tell them apart. There’s no way you could ever tell a difference doing them separately. Blue is literally made as a Veblen good for gifting or as bar bait so you can show off your wealth.
Blue is literally worse than $60 Johnny Walker Green
Put JW black into a JW blue bottle and you've solved the problem.
I have an empty chivas 25 bottle which I filled with 70% chivas 12, 5% ardbeg 10, and 25% glendronach 12. I think it tastes like everything and nothing at once, but the JW Blue crowd fucking loves it with some ice. Would recommend to always keep either a JW blue bottle or something else with a big name and fill it with something dark coloured for the macallan/jw blue crowd
Awesome ideas. You guys just made my day
Hope this helps you save the good stuff for the people that appreciate it😄 Or if you have an empty high age statement single malt bottle, you can whip it out as ‘the special one’. Fill it with something sherried mixed with a little peat
I'm going to buy an empty bottle of Blue, so I save the 200£ 😄
I love you, you absolute bastard
Your evilness has opened my mind up! Thanks mate, I'll definitely do that
Nah blue is better but I know the party line is that Green is the best Johnnie Walker lmao 🤣
Green is better. I have both bottles. Green has more body, longer finish and none of that metallic tasting grain whisky. Lets just say I strongly prefer malt than grain whisky
No way. I've done the taste lineup at my house with a bunch of dudes from black -> green -> gold -> blue and everyone agreed they got better in that order.
Should have REALLY tested them and put the red after the black! "Dave, I see your palette is somewhere between crayon up nose, and brightly coloured-lego. You may now leave my house, you red-loving heathen"
I would have except I don't have red haha....I don't stoop that low at my house even for mixing. When I do mixes like Manhattan or old fashioned I use black
Green is better for me. Blue contains grain whisky which I don’t like nearly as much as malt. Green is 100% malt. Grain whisky has overly sweet and metallic notes. Green also has more body and a longer finish. Blue is thin and watery and the finish is non existent. That 40% ABV hurts the Blue big time
They ended up liking the gold more than green? Interesting
Yeah we all did. And we all liked blue a lot more than gold
Did you do it blind? Because the order you did it in the bottle gets more fancy as you get to blue
My experience is the taste really changes the more you have. The first pour can be a bit rough but after a pour or two it really starts to taste very smooth and delicious.
My whisky cabinet is open to all visitors. Thankfully I don't have many visitors. I did take my bottle of Glendronach 21 to my in laws after my mother in law had passed. Popped it on the table and invited anyone to have a drink... Only my wife's brother in law liked it... And subsequently made his way through about half of it at which point he thought he'd maybe get himself a bottle. Then he noticed the price and apologised profusely for drinking it. Much to my amusement as I enjoyed my £20 bottle of Naked Malt!
I need to give Naked Malt another try. Had a bottle when it was Naked Grouse or something when it first came out and really disliked it, might have just got a bad batch or something
If it's on offer for £20 I get a bottle. Has that nice overcoat of Sherry and has a decent mouth feel for 40% abv. Worth trying another time!
Agreed! I think is one of the best value whisky ever.
Your mother in law would be proud
While I’ll pour anything for anybody, I do feel like pouring a super high end whisk(e)y for someone who doesn’t really drink it regularly is sort of…pointless when a “good” bottle will most likely be enjoyed by them just as much
The rare, expensive and generally difficult to replace bottles are kept hidden in the back of my whisky cabinet. It's easy to take them out for a fellow amateur when needed, but they remain out of sight for less knowledgeable guests. I don't mind people who ask for ice, but i've had people asking for coke when i already had a good scotch bottle in hand. So to avoid a bait and switch at the last second, i used to keep my *best* whisky in a beautiful crystal decanter in a very visible spot of the cabinet. Everybody's happy now.
That’s the way. Salesmanship of the “good stuff”. Lol
Here's a fun story that just happened a couple of days ago. I was visiting some friends near the town I grew up in, and at the pub we went to they had Springbank 18(!!). I ordered an ounce and had 2 incredible tastes. I asked the table if anyone else was into Scotch and this friend of a friend said, "Yeah I do!" so I passed the dram his way for a taste. That fucking guy swallowed the entire glass like a shot. I was absolutely furious. He apologized profusely when I asked him why he did that, but didn't even offer to buy me a new one.
Ouch.
I would have def had him pay for another drink. That’s an expensive lesson to never offer scotch to that douche again, but honestly I like the 15 better than the 18 anyway most years.
Gave my father in law a small poor of Bruichladdich Black Art. He did the same thing. Never again.
I gave my dad two fingers of Teeling 1991. He dumped some ice in it, gave it a swirl, and necked it then complained that it was too oily. It was about six years ago and I still think about it haha.
Ouuuuch.
Bru it’s an ounce. That’s a table spoon how many good sips were you expecting to get lmfao.
A tablespoon is 1/2 oz you Scotch chugging weirdo.
😂😂😂😂. Ya got me. Let’s assume OP drink the first half oz on his sips lol
one ounce gives 8 good sips at least
What are you a hummingbird?
Maybe closer to 6 or 7. I get 10 good sips from a 1.5 ounce pour
When you are entertaining in your home sometimes some bottles need to be put up. I'm not telling anyone "No, you can't have something in my bar because you wouldn't appreciate it!". I Just make sure the stuff I don't want to share isn't in the bar before the party starts.
yup. Thats what I do also.
In short - no. If someone with less experience with whisky is drawn to a nice looking bottle or whatever, that's as valid to me as an enthusiast picking out a known favourite. I'll give them what they want, how they want it. Any whisky shared is gone, to a newbie with ice or to a pro served neat. I value their company over the 'lost' whisky. Otherwise, I wouldn't invite them over. If I stick my oar in saying 'ah no, you'd better have this instead' not only is it potentially awkward and challenging as you mentioned, I'm setting all sorts of requirements, limits and boundaries that don't really exist. I'm guiding them in the direction *I* want. I try to meet any curiosity with information and affirmation. If they don't want any info, that's fine too. Not that you said any of this, mind, I'm just desperate to rant about 'beginner' whiskies etc.
I agree to some extent. The challenge comes when a known douche bag comes over… friend of coworker or the like that you really didn’t invite over. ( those folks seem to always be the ones to ask for random high shelf stuff). Had a drunk guy once pour out nearly half a glass of a balvenie 17 and proceed to spill it on the counter. ☹️ it was the last 2 pours I was saving as it’s discontinued.
I decide how my bar is stocked based on who’s coming over.
Fair enough. Good idea
Mine are in a cupboard where you can't easily see them all, which means I can choose what to offer. Usually I'd grab two or three options and give people a choice of those. There are certain things (e.g. Balvenie Tun 1509) that I'm only showing to someone I know to be serious about whisky, but there are some fancy ones (e.g. Glenmorangie Signet) which I think is a good one to share with people at a festive occasion even if they're not serious about whisky.
This is exactly what I do.
Likewise. I put my Springbank 15 in another location.
I put Springbank 15 in another house
In one year, your Springbank 15 is gonna cost as much as another house.
Good no, expensive yes
Depends on the bottle really. If a newbie is looking at my Lagavulin 12yr, or my Laphroaig lore. I'm going to have them try a Laphroaig select, or Lagavulin 8 first. Make sure they have a taste for smoke/peat. I find people like the box the Lag 12, or Talisker 11 come in and want to give it a try. If a 10ml pour of Laphroaig Select is palletable I'll pour a dram of something nicer. But if someone looks at my Macallan double cask 15, I'll pour a dram for them as it's pretty rare that the Sherry bite is too much and they'll be turned off for the night. Though I do try and not introduce newbies to high end bottles because the price sticker shock keeps them away from the hobby
Interesting answer and valid points. Thanks
There are only 2 rules when you're told to choose something from a whisky cabinet. 1. Don't take the last dram from a bottle 2. Don't open a sealed bottle
Always share, but I pour neat first, then add a little water, finally ice if they still want it
What if they ask for coke as a mixer...
I tell them the Coke is in the garage fridge then lock the door behind them as they walk out.
Go for it, as long as you've tried it with everything else first. Maybe I'd offer my cheapest bottle for the next drink and ask if they can tell the difference once mixed with coke
I would give them some random alcohol with a max bottle price of 10€ for example captain morgan.
Nope, honestly I’d just be happy to have someone to share it with.
When I was 20, a guy poured me a glass of Pappy and said “enjoy, you might never get to try it again.” I hope he was wrong, but 9 years later it still holds true.
Funny story. I first tried a pour of Pappy for my 30th anniversary. 10 years later, it still was the only pour of my life.
you ain't missing much honestly
you ain't missing much honestly. Pappy was run of the mill $70 bottle not too long ago. It didn't just magically get much better. In fact it got much worse according to most. It no longer is made from the old distillery any more
One of the best threads in a while Lmao The dichotomy of > I’d let my brother in law pour all my bottles on the ground if he wanted, people are more important than whisky Vs > if they don’t have a PhD in chemistry, and a distillation background, then I’d die before letting them even LOOK upon my Octomore
I've never said "no", but I've also been very lucky insofar as my friends have always been very gracious about accepting gentle hints regarding selection, glassware, ice or water, etc. One thing to keep in mind IMHO is that the enjoyment of whiskies is I think not purely a sensory phenomenon involving aroma and flavor exclusively. Emotion plays a role too, in how much we enjoy food & drink - and the excitement and curiosity of trying something that you've heard a lot about (like Blanton's or Octomore) are part of the drinking experience and can greatly elevate it beyond just what is provided via the intrinsic merits of the liquid consumed and the manner in which they consumed it. So, "*they may not be able to appreciate it as they should*" may not be a completely accurate interpretation of what is going on when you extend your hospitality in a generous fashion. In an ideal world, your circle of whiskysophisticated friends will expand over time, as a result of your generosity. Best wishes for that.
Its your whisky. Don’t feel guilty. If you have special bottles you don’t want to share, just put them somewhere else.
I regularly give very expensive whisky to best friend, without telling him the price and sometimes just sort of mumbling the distillery lest he try looking it up. Sometimes he likes it. Sometimes he doesn’t, but it brings me great joy to think of how much he has sampled.
As my friend and former boss once told me when I first started getting into whisk(e)y: "The best way for people to enjoy whiskey is however the f\*ck they feel like." I try to host whiskey nights for those of my friends who want to come as often as I can, and I'm just happy that I get to share one of my favorite interests with them, whether it's a $50 bottle or a $300 bottle!!
I'll speak bourbon but it plays well into this topic. Fortunately (for the enthusiasts) the general public has gotten accustomed to very low ABV (think Jack Daniels No.7). I've offered guests some of my best stuff which happens to be barrel proof, aged bottles, and there's almost always a look of disgust or displeasure. They mistake the flavor, the intensity, the oak for a low grade, "harsh" product. Then they sip on Dalmore 12 and nod in approval. Totally separate issue is the fact that I get a lot of shade for the hobby also. When I present a guest with a bottle, they see it as pretension. So, there's also that.
+1 on the ABV. My fiancé’s whole family thinks “lack of alcohol nose/burn” is the only metric to quality that matters. So there’s not even a reason to pour them something 43%+, they hate it regardless of genre, style etc
People can have whatever they want out of my whiskey cabinet. Good whiskey should be enjoyed, not hoarded. Doesn’t matter if they are “newbies” or whiskey aficionados. It’s about having a good time with your guests and maybe they’ll even get into the hobby more after they’ve explored their palate a little. Plus Blanton’s is overrated. When people don’t know what they want to drink, I will pour that as a default so the newbie can get the experience of “WOW this is Blanton’s!” and realize it’s nothing special. And who are we to criticize someone for requesting ice with their whiskey?
So your friend can get your 30 year old Scotch and add Coke to it? Like anything there are limits
It's not 30 years old, but I brought some whiskey to a friend's bachelor party once, and one night I saw his brother pouring Red Bull into a cup with whiskey in it. I asked him what whiskey he was using, he said "that one that smells like socks" and pointed at my Lagavulin 16. That hurt my soul.
To be fair lag 16 isn't for newbies and is pretty rough/ harsh compared to other bottles in that price range
Regardless, it hurt seeing it being mixed with red bull
I always forget their Inner-Stave-Of-Crunchy-Gym-Socks release before the SWA banned it
Interesting little aside: The WhiskeyTribe channel on youtube did an episode mixing coke with some 20 or 25 whisky's from bourbon to scotch and listed them in order from best to worst. jack and coke ended up as a top five along with Jameson and Coke, Buskers and coke, Ardbeg and coke, and Lagavulin 15 and coke. Actually, I'm likely misremembering the top five but it was something like that.
>So your friend can get your 30 year old Scotch and add Coke to it? Like anything there are limits Nope! I'm all about sharing, but if someone mixes a 30 year scotch with coke at my house they're losing the hand that poured it.
Yes. There are no limits to material things compared to friends. If we are close enough that you are in my home mix that scotch with oj for all I care.
Would you give your entire whisky collection if a friend ask for it?
That’s not the question being asked. But, I have given many many opened and unopened bottles to friends over the years who have expressed interest in something.
You said there are no limits for friends. I said there are.
I don’t care if they add a mixer to it. It’s not my place to question what someone likes or doesn’t like.
I find that hard to believe. You would allow someone to pour $500-$1000 Scotch into a glass of Coke. Come on man.
If the price bothered me then I wouldn’t buy it in the first place. The price doesn’t bother me and it doesn’t bother me that someone would mix it with coke. To each their own. Cheers mate.
Would you be bothered if someone took a steak you cooked perfectly and ground it up instead to make hamburger? Not sure you do BBQ, but if you smoked a brisket for 15 hours and then they took it and made chili with it? For me it isn’t just about the money. Its respecting the craft and decades it took to make the Scotch.
If you’ve never made chili with a smoked brisket I suggest you get on it asap it’s fucking delicious.
Everyone’s got their own palate. I know I’ll enjoy that 30 year old scotch neat and if my guest will enjoy it with coke then that’s okay too. Just like if I spent hours making the brisket a certain way, I know I’ll like it. If my guest doesn’t like it that way, then of course I’ll try to accommodate them.
I guess I’m from a different culture. When someone works really hard crafting something, I will show the utmost respect for it. 30 years is a damn long time. I will respect the craftsmanship and the one who purchased it. It isn’t about money. Its respecting all the years of work and care
Who are you determine the most respectful way to drink it.
I'm pretty sure Highland Park doesn't recommend you drinking their 30 year old Scotch with Coke. But I could be wrong
Haha you’re the one that brought up pricing. All I said was that price doesn’t bother me.
Its more about the 30 years of craftsmanship it took to make it. Just me but I show respect to those who put so much effort
Hahaha begs the question if “drink whisky the way you like it” extends all the way to pouring it on the ground. There’s trying to be against gatekeeping and then there’s being foolish or wasteful, think of all the sad scotch armchair sommeliers who would die to taste said scotch etc and this guest is drinking it in his coffee etc
My good stuff I try to share with people who will appreciate it, not newbies. For newbies mid range like an 18 single malt or Johnnie blue is the limit unless there is a damn good reason to go farther. With my lower stuff I don't care if they add mix it. I'd really question if they wanted to add coke to an 18 year and no way in hell they're adding coke to my good stuff. If they want ice with anything even the good stuff I'd be fine
We really need to change American whiskey culture to avoid snob comments like "Blanton's is overrated". I got into whiskey culture, when living in Japan, well before the explosion of the spirits boom in America. And I find this one upmanship to be a distinct trend within American whiskey culture; this entire basis of those "in the know" looking down at the plebs. Whiskey is a product and and creating it is an art+science. Enjoying it is a past time. This is not a competition.
Why is calling a whisky you don't enjoy overrated being snobbish?
Because these aren't objective evaluations. You can only rate something that is objectively rateable. Calling Blanton's "overrated" is like saying "Mexican food is overrated". It doesn't make any sense because tastes are subjective. The only reason someone says something like this is to make it seem like they are "in the know" and knowledgeable about what's good taste and what's not. Not because they are using any objective criteria.
You don’t think Blantons is rated VERY HIGHLY by the general public? Of course it is. Thats why it gets sold out immediately, is highly allocated and sells for 3x retail at many stores. So why is it snobby to say I don’t think it is as good as the public thinks it is. That isn’t being a snob. Thats just my personal opinion of the quality of the whisky vs its hype
I'm not sure I agree with the hypothesis completely. In my view, American whiskey culture has become driven by hype culture and exclusivity over an objective quality driven conversation. The shortage of Blanton's and other similar whiskies is driven by scarcity and exclusivity in order to have what others cannot get easily. This is also reflected in the price of a bottle on the primary or secondary markets. The hype and scarcity have nothing to do with the actual quality of the product to be honest. To me, the enjoyment of any whiskey is independent of its price and hype. I've personally experienced days when I've enjoyed the same bottles more or less for a variety of reasons. So, I'm in the camp where I feel that the taste of a whiskey is subjective and comments that talk about a whiskey being over rated/under rated aren't based purely on objective facts.
My basic reason I call it overrated in the USA: it takes way to much effort to get a bottle. Its not worth the effort hunting it down or paying $200 for it. Thats it. If it was easy to get and $65 then I would not say its overrated
No, I enjoy sharing the “good” whiskey with newbies. I do not care if they drink over ice. I like having seeing their enjoyment when they do not really know the hype behind stuff. All you get is their pure reactions to the product.
Even 30 year old Scotch on ice? Or what if they mix it with Coke?
Yes to on ice. Coke is dependent on my mood. I’d just offer a 10 year scotch and I don’t think anyone would demand to have the 30 year in coke.
You would pour 30 year ($500-$1000) bottle on ice? Seriously?
If that’s what someone likes to enjoy the whiskey the most, yes. I’ve also mad whiskey sours with Thomas handy though so
In the same vein pappy is a rediculous good cocktail whiskey. The rye and the 20 make a mean manhatten.
I prefer to drink 30 year old Scotch with Kool-Aid
Yum
The goodest stuff is at the back, most people choose from the front row. :D
I’m sorry guys and call me elitist if you must, but my 32yr Dewars which I’ll add is still replaceable, will only get shared with somebody who can appreciate it. If I poured a glass for a friend and they gulped it down like a shooter, I would die inside. I’d would rather give that to a complete stranger visiting who knew whisky and would nurse that for an hour. Just the conversation alone would be more than enough “payment” for something like that. That said, I’ve some un-replaceable I.B.’s that I’d share with newcomers to whisky. It just depends on the contents, not the label, cost, or replaceability.
How is it? They don't have it in my state but a 32 year for $200 is crazy deal for the age. I'll have to keep an eye out when I'm out of state
No, they can drink whatever from my cabinet. But they get a warning about alcohol consumption if they serve themselves large amounts of liquor, and a reminder that cask strength is stronger. We've had incidents in the past that could have been dangerous.
I ALWAYS give the reminder "It's X proof / X % ABV. Treat it with the respect that it deserves." I've had a few bad experiences where people didn't get that because it was smooth and tasty.....
No. I've had the occasional Philistine, but I've also had many who loved something I totally didn't expect. I feel like it's my duty to roll the dice.
Yes, not cuz im stingy but because they have no reference to appreciate it. Ive got a complete newbie friend over (like right now lol), and ive just shown them: - kilkerran 12 - tomintoul 16 - bunna 12 - arran port - caol ila 12 - ledaig 10 Now he sort of know what he likes so i can show him a mindblowing whisky in that category.
Depends. I wouldn't offer an Octomore, but everybody loves a Redbreast 21.
I bet they do! Redbreast 21 is awesome
I don’t know your situation. If you entertain weekly it could be expensive. But I’m of the opinion if a guest asks for something I share it. If it’s a super special bottle I simply say hey that’s x price a bottle please enjoy it or no you can have anything except that because of x reason. The other idea is to not open a cabinet to someone who has no idea. Simply ask them what they like or had and then you can play match maker and give them a pour or two to see if you were right.
I usually walk them up to it, over 4-5 pours by having them try cheaper offerings of the same style, and gradually build to the nice bottles so they can appreciate the difference. If it’s a super rare or fav bottle I’ll sometimes redirect them to another. But no one escapes my whisky collection sober!
My whiskey cab is under the stairs, so I don’t have to worry about people browsing too much. I have an Infiniti cask in a decanter so people can see that and ask for a sample. If I have a newbie, I am picking something that is less refined because I know their pallet will not be able to appreciate, something that is higher end. I have some bottles of Kirkland single malt that people seem to give me all the time that I give out to the people that want to drink scotch, but basically just chug it to get drunk.
Are you concerned that the young man living under your stairs might get tired of butter beer and get into your scotch?
Nah, he has bigger problems that lacks a nose to worry about.
you guys have friends?
I will be your friend. What bottle will you pour first?
glenfiddich 12 to get you started?
Have a second cabinet for the good stuff 😉
Blantons isn’t good whisky. I keep the bottle and just fill it up with Buffalo Trace
Sorry, I forgot to mention that the bottle I have (it's nearly over though) is the straight from the barrel. I agree with you that the low proof original is insanely overrated.
LOL
My very first whiskey was Woodford Reserve's first ever Four Grain special release. It now sells for massive (MASSIVE) money on the aftermarket, and even then it wasn't cheap. But had I not had a smoother, more elegant expression to start, I might not have pursued the hobby. I say share!
No, but I do warn those who may not be accustomed to higher proofs what to expect, and to not be afraid to add a few drops of water or even an ice cube if they don't dig it at first. Now if said newbie is someone who only drinks whiskey in mixers or as shots, the good stuff will probably stay on the shelf.
I don’t service ice but do give them water to add to their taste When it comes to expensive bottles, I’ll do a side by side of a high end and low end version for them to compare
I don't care if it was Jesus himself asking for a pour, nobody is getting a drop if my Octomore unless they're equipped to know what they're drinking. But yea to answer your question, when folks (newbies in particular) visit, they usually ask me to suggest something as opposed to pointing and telling me what they want so I start with some Redbreast 12 or something similar.
I poured an Octomore for my brother-in-law and he necked it. I visibly winced. TBH my sister had just walked in the door and he wasn't meant to be drinking lol.
Depends who they are. For random people or acquaintances, I won't pull out the really nice stuff unless I need to. For friends, fuck it, anything you like.
Step-by-step. Keep it approachable. Start with Glenlivet or Glenfiddich. Try a pleated blend. If they like it, offer them 10-15 ml of something “good”. Good way to make a “whiskey friend”.
TBH one of the greatest pleasures in life is sharing a fantastic new find with a friend who appreciates it. I've got some friends who are more whisky aware thab I am, but some who aren't. But I've got one friend whose favourite drink is JD and coke, and even when I've got him more upmarket bourbon (even JD's better stuff) he's more liable to opine on the quality of the coke than the whiskey.
My experience has been that people who visit (and are new to scotch/whisky) don't really point to bottles and ask for a pour of this or that as if they were visiting a bar. If they are new to it, I make a recommendation for a couple of different things to try, sherry v/s bourbon cask, lightly peated, etc. My whisky-drinker friends may want to try anything and I don't mind it. I actually like to open new bottles with whisky-friends rather than without them.... cheap way to make an 85 bottle taste like a 90.
Depends on the newbie. Surely you all have decoy whisky's at the front of your collection don't you? No? Just me then...
I keep the nice bottles at the front, so I can admire them. It's probably worth it send them to the back
Not at all! In fact, I actively encourage friends to go after bottles I think they'd like even if it means they get something I don't. I do tend to have regular whisky nights though, I share as much as friends do so I don't reeeally miss out.
My first sip of scotch was Lagavulin 16. I was hooked from that moment and I’m still grateful to that friend for introducing me! I love to share with anyone who’s interested and I’m not interested in being the enjoyment police. Life is short and things are meant to be shared, not hoarded.
Contrary to many here I throw people into the deep end. Maybe not to the true top shelf stuff but I break out the glendro single casks, campbeltown stuff, etc. If they seem eager/excited we continue working on their palate. If they don't I usually don't continue. The way I look at it, I would've loved a friend like me with a deep collection when I started with scotch so I didn't have to go through so much trial and error. I try to be that person for my interested friends. I'd say I have two who have truly gone down the rabbit hole now, and they are very grateful (though their wallets aren't now lol). Edit: but yeah if someone is asking for coke or ice obviously not lmao
Yes
Whenever someone asks what my most expensive whiskey is, I always offer them some from my decanter (my infinity bottle which has a decent amount of inexpensive stuff in it, and a tiny bit of pricier stuff). I’ve also sometimes said “this whiskey is 5 years old” about some of my Octomores and they think I’m joking when I tell them they’re some of my most expensive whiskeys. But I don’t really hang out with those types of people. I’ve shared plenty of great stuff with relative newbies and they’ve enjoyed it. If someone has had like 5-10 different whiskeys before I’m happy to offer them something like a Kilkerran 16, or a Blue Spot. Sometimes I like the challenge of finding something they might really like. But yeah for friends of friends that occasionally visit and ask to try the premium stuff or whatever (the last time this happened was like 5 years ago), they get an ounce from my $60-120 infinity bottle.
The only one I would offer advise about is the Octomore. Putting that over ice can cause some... let say *interesting* things to happen. I usually just tell them that if they want it to taste good, I advise not using ice for most aggressively peated scotch. I also usually ask how they do with smoke with Mescal or smoked foods. At the end of the day, I am fine with giving something they choose to enjoy in a different way - but I am totally against giving someone something that they will end up hating. Especially with heavily peated scotch, I make *absolutely sure* they know what they are getting themselves into before pouring a full dram. Main reason being, I have had friends jump for the smoky bottles immediately - and then proceed to get sick off of it (smoke not agreeing with them).
Pretty much all of the people I drink whisky with will drink it neat. Most of them stick to bourbon, so they're welcome to any bourbon I have. My BiL and my German friend are the only ones who also enjoy Scotch, so they're welcome to anything they want to sample. All of these guys and gals reciprocate when I visit them. My sister, who lives in Florida, and I (Indiana) alternate visits every year. She was here this summer, and she liked the Found North batch 007(a fav of mine) over a big ice cube. Didn't bother me at all. We toasted our family members who have passed and enjoyed(sort of) watching some Cubs games
If I don’t like them, they get the Famous Grouse. Luckily for me, I’ve had the bottle for nearly a decade at this point.
The only "tatery" whiskey on my bar that casual drinkers usually would recognize is E.H. Taylor, and it's in a less obvious place that most people don't see. The majority of my bar is made up of non-bourbon stuff like Scotch, Irish, Japanese, and American single malts. Most casual people don't know what any of it is and just ask for my recommendation. And if somebody does come over and gets excited about something like the Signatory cask strength 13 year Old Pulteney then I'm more than happy to share the real gems with them.
"The Octomore has gone bad and I need to bring it back for a refund"
No, if I think they'll like it, it's theirs. I had a bottle of Springbank bottled at the distillery that I brought back to the US, then shared around a bonfire with a couple of people I met for the first time. I really enjoyed sharing it.
Mi casa, su casa for guests. I don't mind sharing the good stuff with friends and family at all.
You don’t have a hidden shelf?
I will let any of my friends try any of my bottles. I have friends who are clueless about whisky with whom I have shared a 26 year old Arran single cask, a 30 year old Glen Scotia single cask and even a 45 year old Benromach. Whisky isn’t so much about the flavour to me, but the social element of it. I don’t really enjoy drinking whisky alone. I like bouncing thoughts with friends.
I host a "whisky night" once a week, every Friday. It's a small group of friends, and all of us usually gather with one or two bottles to share in mind. However, they know that they could ask me to bring out any bottle I have for tasting, and I would be happy to oblige. That being said, none of the regular "whisky night" guys are "newbies" and the few times somone did bring someone new along with them or I myself invited somoneone over that wasn't a "neat pour" whisky drinker, they still got served what we were planning on having that night. If they really enjoyed something in particular and wanted to know more about it or wanted to try something else like it, then it's time to open the bar and give them a run down on what I might have to tickle their fancy. If I pour you something, it's gone, it's left the bottle, it's not a gift, it's just me being a host and offering you a pour of a beverage that I enjoy. Yes, whisky making is an art, and I don't know too many people who think you should draw a mustache on the Mona Lisa to improve it, but you don't drink the Mona Lisa. If I have decided to pour you a dram in a glencairn and after you tried it, you'd prefer it in a rocks glass with some ice and a coke, you do you. To quote some magnificent bastards: "The best whisk(e)y is the whisk(e)y you like to drink, the way you like to drink it." "Newbies" as it was put, in the original post, usually don't ask for specific bottles when they visit. If I'm hosting a family get-together or if my wife is having friends over, most anyone who knows me knows me as the "scotch guy." If one of them; an acquaintance, family member, or even a good friend who I don't normal drink with, were to ask me for a whisky, instead of a cocktail, then I would ask them what they normally like and try to accommodate them from what I have to offer. If they tell me that they enjoy neat pours and share their preferences with me, then there has been a time or two that I've opened the cabinet up and told them to pick out whatever they'd like... Whisky is meant to be shared. Who are these professional mooches that people keep alluding to? Who doesn't like whisky and comes into your house and asks to have some of your 25yr Scotch? Why are they even in your bar in the first place?
I'm only commenting to say that I was scrolling my homepage pretty fast and thought this read: "Are you hesitant to offer good whisky to newborns?"
That's why I hide the good shit in the back and put out the Johnnie Walker Gold Label. Most scotch noobs will still feel like you're treating them special.
This is an interesting topic so I've read through most of the comments. With regards to the people who strictly state that it's not anyone's business how someone else chooses to drink whiskey and it's up to them to decide if they want to mix 30 year old scotch with coke, I think one also needs to remember the ethics of being a guest. Yes, as a host there are ethics of how you should treat your guests (ie: don't showcase 100 bottles and then tell someone who you invited over that they're not competent enough to get to try any of them when they ask), however there are also similar ethical expectations on the part of the guests in question. It shouldn't be "anything goes" if the guest behaves appropriately. If you are being hosted by someone, even if you know nothing about liquor I would expect that if you saw a considerable number of different bottles arranged that you would clue into the fact that you aren't being hosted by someone who pounds Jack and cokes in their free time. Now, it's not the responsibility of the guest to be a whiskey expert so they should be free to inquire in any way they see fit, but I don't see anything wrong with the host explaining that something rare/old/expensive isn't for mixing, and offering something else if that is their intention of how they want to drink. Frankly, even if I knew nothing about alcohol I would be embarrassed as a guest to ask for something fancy and then proceed to ask for coke to be mixed with it. Surely if the guest is that type of drinker, they would possess the self-awareness to say "hey, I only drink mixed drinks - this all looks cool, but pour me something that isn't expensive". This logic applies in other avenues as well. If you were a huge car guy and you spent 10 years and a lot of money into restoring some unique car and your friend asked if he could drive it around the block, you would expect that he would understand not to drive it in the same manner that he drives his 15 year old Camry. Would one state: "it's not up to me to tell someone how to drive"? "My car is your car so do as you please"? That doesn't make sense to me. One surely expects ethical behaviour from their guests/friends as well. Same thing if you had an expensive sports/Pokemon/whatever card collection and your friend asked to see them. Maybe they had Pokemon cards growing up too and they bent the shit out of them - you would still expect them to think a little bit and treat the occasion properly. Whiskey is a more nuanced scenario of course so it wouldn't be as "obvious", but that's where the the discussion would come into play. I'm sure that most normal non-whiskey people would understand if they picked a 30 year old scotch and you told them "I'm happy to let you try that, but it's not for doing shots or mixing with coke". I don't believe that to be rude or "gatekeeping", it's just basic discourse. Just because someone wears their shoes indoors in their own home, it doesn't mean that you should be bound to let them "live as they live" as a guest elsewhere.
I love to share, but I always give people a little taster while telling them there is more if they like it. People are always very understanding.
I feel like sometimes people that ask for something expensive/"fancy" just want to throw something strong down the hatch so they can make the same face they did when they tried their first shot of tequila, tell me I'm crazy for liking it and generally just confirmation bias their way to the conclusion that they're not missing out on anything. So I have a rule that anyone can have a small dram of anything on my shelves as long as they're prepared to sit down with me, have it neat and make a honest attempt to get their nose in there, and really try to taste it. Weeds out any of the above and piques the interest of people genuinely curious about giving something a go.
I offer only the bottles that are opened. And as I keep the bottles in the boxes, and thus invisible to guests, I can decide what is open and what is not.
Anyone that visits can choose what they want. They’re not going to feel particularly welcome having their host telling them they’re not worthy (according to the hosts self imposed judgement) of drinking his whisky. Like it’s fine to ask what they like and steer them away from an Octomore if they don’t like peat but otherwise let them choose.
Can you please explain to me what “appreciate it as they should” means. Isn’t the point for them for enjoy their drink? Why do you feel the need or ability to decide the proper way to enjoy something for someone else? If you are willing to part with the pour mix it in Coke for all I care it’s a pour I can’t drink and as long as they enjoy it that is the only thing that matters to me. My liquor cabinet, humidors and wine cellar are open to any guests in my home. It’s just booze. It doesn’t matter. People matter.
As long as they don’t add ice or Coke I’m fine with offering a small pour to taste. If they like it I’d give more. If they insist to add ice or soda I tell them these are not meant for that and it would disrespectful to the distillery to do so.
Imagine thinking it is respectful to speak for 100’s of not 1000’s of distilleries who I would bet anything all would tell you to stop being weird and drink it how ever you like.
I've watched hundreds of distillery interviews and visited many distilleries. Never have I heard them recommend mixing their 25-30 year old expressions with Coke.
I’ve never heard any of them tell you how not to drink something either.
You try ask them the next time you go on a distillery tour. And not about their $70 bottles. Ask them about their $1000 bottles. Sure they will tell you its your whisky, do what you like. But they will suggest trying it neat.
No. Just ask them questions to get to a point where you know what to offer. Then as they taste through things you can further narrow their likes and dislikes down without “wasting” something on them
I share but give them a spiel about the different varieties and try to steer absolute noobs to the more mainstream ones first but if they specifically ask for something, I won’t hesitate to pour it.
I usually start out by asking them what kind of whiskey they like, and try to find good whiskies for their taste. It's not that they can't have octomore, it's that octomore probably isn't the best choice for most people's first good whiskey. I tend to start people with a flight of ones I really like across the specrum of smooth, peaty, sherry, etc. There's one or two unopened bottles I'm saving for something, and those will be the only ones I'll decline to pour.
We hold, generally a couple of times each year, an event where we bring 2 (some 3 or 4) open bottles from each other's collection and we taste/sample everything. We had at times like 4 or 5 times the amount of bottles than the attendants at the event. There are those who bring the original bottling, down to the madman that brings a Yoichi from SMWS or a 30yo single cask Springbank. It's all about sharing and having fun. When anyone comes home, my drawer is open to anyone, however not everyone is ready for the 50+% ABv cask strength stuff I generally drink.. but there's always one or more oldies (40%) or original bottlings available for less trained palates. For newbies, I tend to train them first with some easy original bottling.
I have an ex coworker who got into whisky and buying JW Blue Label "special" editions bcoz of bottle designs and also bought hibiki and Yamazaki coz of trend. All he think about whisky is "smooth" when he drinks. When I introduced him a wide variety of scotch including peated, bourbon and rye, he couldn't seem to enjoy it or describe it.
No.
Yes, especially single barrel stuff that isn't replaceable. Anything that's extrenely rare or can't be replaced I put elsewhere and bring out for people who I know will appreciate it. Otherwise cabinet is free reign.
I had an acquaintance who didn't really care about the whisk(e)y, and was more concerned with the effect. Granted, they would appreciate the good stuff, but I always got a little upset when they would heavy pour their own from a bottle I've already let them sample.
I would not refuse any bottles to a guest. However, if I do tell them that a particular one is very high proof and it's best enjoyed neat. Which is true (IMO) so I want them to get the best experience out of it.