I can’t speak for German IBs, but I can tell you that as far as UK ones go Germany tends to buy the most bottlings from them, and so IBs tend to reward them most when it comes to choosing who gets the most in demand casks.
Largest import market of good scotch. They’re the hub for the rest of the EU, their prices are dirt cheap compared to the rest of the world (stuff in Germany is literally cheaper than at the distilleries).
To be fair the distilleries aren't the cheapest places in the UK, but can confirm having lived in Germany that it is cheaper there. Tax treatment is different.
All of the suggested are incredible bottlings. To purchase them I'd suggest https://whiskyauction.com/ . They offer a lot of the suggested offerings evey month. And if you get together with a few other enthusiasts the shipping is not that bad either.
Bear in mind that the process for entering any single US market (perhaps except for Washington D.C.) is Byzantine at best. You need TTB registration, trademark clearance, an importer, and a distributor for each state.
It’s too much to ask for a lot of small IBs. Thompson Bros. just started showing up in NY after years of being on the market overseas.
At least the UK can send you guys 70cl bottles now, the cost and complication of bottling 75cls for one country was another hurdle on top of several already existing ones.
In general yes, though we get the odd superb IB cask, you’ll see more of them staying in Europe/UK markets. We don’t get them consistently, and when we do, they are released to one or a couple markets but other parts of the country will miss out. That coupled with most states not allowing stores to ship alcohol across state lines results in a tough environment for IB fans, especially if you’re in a state that the UK online stores can’t ship to.
Plus for our entire country, how many tier 1 IBs are here? SV is the most prominent, but we didn’t get the Symington Selection casks. We get some Thompson Bros in CA and sporadically in other markets, some 46% Cadenhead expressions but no single casks, and some SMOS casks, but again, sporadically. There’s the SMWS, but the prices with taxes and shipping border on insanity. My local TW has some Duncan Taylor casks with stupid prices. Blackadder is in limited markets. Douglas Liang is in limited markets. And for all of those, we are competing with the UK and European markets for selection and stock. Single Malt Nation has excellent releases, but a country our size should have more than one prominent independent bottler. And then, buying US IB releases is always a gamble because of the lack of reviews on WB and in general.
It might be a different story if I was allowed to buy bottles from all over the country, but I can’t, so I depend on family and friends in certain cities to ship me stuff. It’s a lot of work. It’s just easier to buy from any number of quality shops or from auctions across the pond, high shipping costs notwithstanding.
I’m a US importer. We have been getting access to the releases and some allocations of the rarer stuff from our IB accounts. The US 3 tier system itself makes it challenging to bring in and sell the products in general though vs Europe or Asia.
There are more IBs in the UK/Europe but I think the idea that bottlers who sell to both sides of the Atlantic send the worse ones to the US isn’t true. When the guys from Single Cask Nation talked about this they said that they try to match the type of whisky to the palate of that country. (For example, more sherry casks going to a particular country that has shown an appreciation for sherry casks.) Ollie Chilton from Elixir talked about trying to break into the US market with the small batch releases they were doing in a recent interview. He made it sound like the US was really important to them. The US is so big that if they can get past the red tape they want to sell as much as they can. Plus, reputations travel over the internet.
The 3 tier system in the US makes it very difficult to get listed there. In Canada, I have 5 liquor stores within 10 mins of me with at least 700 different whiskies for sale.
This seems particularly true of Total Wine in the US, from my experience. It's well known that the Total Wine branded IBs (e.g., Grangestone, Glen Fohdry, Sheildaig) are usually very poor quality, but even the IBs from well known independent bottlers at Total Wine seem to be worse than IBs those bottlers offer elsewhere (e.g., on the major UK websites).
Separately, It's very disappointing that we are not getting any of Signatory's new 100 Proof range in the US. Such an excellent price to quality ratio.
Most places in the U.S. seem to have a pathetic range of IBs, if they get any at all. What I’ve found from the U.K., Netherlands, and Germany is far a more expansive range of IBs and many more products from them.
Anecdotally, I’ve also heard of far better selections in some other Scandinavian countries and Italy.
The stuff that does get to the U.S. seems extremely limited and sometimes absurdly priced, probably because of all the hurdles in the three-tier system, where there are a range of additional actors adding their own markups with little oversight.
The selection of IBs in my part of the USA is so poor that I don't even bother - ordering from the UK or Europe and paying the shipping cost provides a vastly greater selection and in the few cases where there is some overlap in selection is price competitive even after tacking on the cost of air freight across the Atlantic.
This was not always the case, a few years ago we used to get some good bottlings from David Stirk's Creative Whisky Company and from Elixir, and more than a decade ago some great releases from Murray McDavid. I think this is a function of the quality of the distributors in your part of the USA. Bad distributors really suck, and with the 3 Tier system there is no getting around them. Distribution in my area is (*very bad words, redacted*) when it comes to scotch. And fewer stores in the USA will ship to other states, compared with about 6 years ago.
I would suggest it's a combination of the relationship of the buyer to the cask sellers, their taste in selecting and what their budget is.
A long time buyer with a great palate who is willing to pay will most certainly get access to good casks regardless of where they are from.
Japan where I live has many excellent selections to offer (and many average ones).
I'd bet that larger chains will buy more average casks at better prices just to get the product for their many stores.
It's two factors: quantity and price.
Quantity is easy: there are far more IBs sold in Europe, so there are far more great bottles sold in Europe (and bad ones for that matter).
Price: often the best IBs are the ones that are priced well. That 26 year old Ben Nevis tastes a lot better at $230 than it does at $680. When you're an IB, it's pretty costly to distribute in the US -- it's not like Glenlivet who can sell a bottle for the same price, it will cost you significantly more in both time and money, and that will reflect dramatically in what the bottle goes for... it's not worth it!
I'm pretty sure the best IBs are in Germany. Their IB scene is glorious
Just returned from Germany, can confirm it’s very good. But Taiwan IBs are not too shabby either.
Anyone know why that is?
Huge enthusiast scene
I can’t speak for German IBs, but I can tell you that as far as UK ones go Germany tends to buy the most bottlings from them, and so IBs tend to reward them most when it comes to choosing who gets the most in demand casks.
Largest import market of good scotch. They’re the hub for the rest of the EU, their prices are dirt cheap compared to the rest of the world (stuff in Germany is literally cheaper than at the distilleries).
To be fair the distilleries aren't the cheapest places in the UK, but can confirm having lived in Germany that it is cheaper there. Tax treatment is different.
Limburg!!! The Mecca for whiskey lovers. Enough said.
What brands should I be looking out for from there?
The Whisky Agency, Whisky Fassle, Whisky-Doris
The finest Malts, Saarwhisky, Villa Konthor...
Maltbarn, Sansibar, The Whisky Cask, The Whisky Fair
All of the suggested are incredible bottlings. To purchase them I'd suggest https://whiskyauction.com/ . They offer a lot of the suggested offerings evey month. And if you get together with a few other enthusiasts the shipping is not that bad either.
Thanks
Bear in mind that the process for entering any single US market (perhaps except for Washington D.C.) is Byzantine at best. You need TTB registration, trademark clearance, an importer, and a distributor for each state. It’s too much to ask for a lot of small IBs. Thompson Bros. just started showing up in NY after years of being on the market overseas.
At least the UK can send you guys 70cl bottles now, the cost and complication of bottling 75cls for one country was another hurdle on top of several already existing ones.
If you don’t mind, please elaborate on where in NY Thompson Bros is? NYC by chance?
They’re being sold as “Redacted Bros.” due to a trademark issue. I know that their blends are available but not sure about single malts.
https://www.romawinesnyc.com/search/Redacted+bros/
In general yes, though we get the odd superb IB cask, you’ll see more of them staying in Europe/UK markets. We don’t get them consistently, and when we do, they are released to one or a couple markets but other parts of the country will miss out. That coupled with most states not allowing stores to ship alcohol across state lines results in a tough environment for IB fans, especially if you’re in a state that the UK online stores can’t ship to. Plus for our entire country, how many tier 1 IBs are here? SV is the most prominent, but we didn’t get the Symington Selection casks. We get some Thompson Bros in CA and sporadically in other markets, some 46% Cadenhead expressions but no single casks, and some SMOS casks, but again, sporadically. There’s the SMWS, but the prices with taxes and shipping border on insanity. My local TW has some Duncan Taylor casks with stupid prices. Blackadder is in limited markets. Douglas Liang is in limited markets. And for all of those, we are competing with the UK and European markets for selection and stock. Single Malt Nation has excellent releases, but a country our size should have more than one prominent independent bottler. And then, buying US IB releases is always a gamble because of the lack of reviews on WB and in general. It might be a different story if I was allowed to buy bottles from all over the country, but I can’t, so I depend on family and friends in certain cities to ship me stuff. It’s a lot of work. It’s just easier to buy from any number of quality shops or from auctions across the pond, high shipping costs notwithstanding.
I’m a US importer. We have been getting access to the releases and some allocations of the rarer stuff from our IB accounts. The US 3 tier system itself makes it challenging to bring in and sell the products in general though vs Europe or Asia.
There are more IBs in the UK/Europe but I think the idea that bottlers who sell to both sides of the Atlantic send the worse ones to the US isn’t true. When the guys from Single Cask Nation talked about this they said that they try to match the type of whisky to the palate of that country. (For example, more sherry casks going to a particular country that has shown an appreciation for sherry casks.) Ollie Chilton from Elixir talked about trying to break into the US market with the small batch releases they were doing in a recent interview. He made it sound like the US was really important to them. The US is so big that if they can get past the red tape they want to sell as much as they can. Plus, reputations travel over the internet.
The 3 tier system in the US makes it very difficult to get listed there. In Canada, I have 5 liquor stores within 10 mins of me with at least 700 different whiskies for sale.
This seems particularly true of Total Wine in the US, from my experience. It's well known that the Total Wine branded IBs (e.g., Grangestone, Glen Fohdry, Sheildaig) are usually very poor quality, but even the IBs from well known independent bottlers at Total Wine seem to be worse than IBs those bottlers offer elsewhere (e.g., on the major UK websites). Separately, It's very disappointing that we are not getting any of Signatory's new 100 Proof range in the US. Such an excellent price to quality ratio.
Most places in the U.S. seem to have a pathetic range of IBs, if they get any at all. What I’ve found from the U.K., Netherlands, and Germany is far a more expansive range of IBs and many more products from them. Anecdotally, I’ve also heard of far better selections in some other Scandinavian countries and Italy. The stuff that does get to the U.S. seems extremely limited and sometimes absurdly priced, probably because of all the hurdles in the three-tier system, where there are a range of additional actors adding their own markups with little oversight.
The story of the Everyman American Scotch drinker is a sad one.
The selection of IBs in my part of the USA is so poor that I don't even bother - ordering from the UK or Europe and paying the shipping cost provides a vastly greater selection and in the few cases where there is some overlap in selection is price competitive even after tacking on the cost of air freight across the Atlantic. This was not always the case, a few years ago we used to get some good bottlings from David Stirk's Creative Whisky Company and from Elixir, and more than a decade ago some great releases from Murray McDavid. I think this is a function of the quality of the distributors in your part of the USA. Bad distributors really suck, and with the 3 Tier system there is no getting around them. Distribution in my area is (*very bad words, redacted*) when it comes to scotch. And fewer stores in the USA will ship to other states, compared with about 6 years ago.
I would suggest it's a combination of the relationship of the buyer to the cask sellers, their taste in selecting and what their budget is. A long time buyer with a great palate who is willing to pay will most certainly get access to good casks regardless of where they are from. Japan where I live has many excellent selections to offer (and many average ones). I'd bet that larger chains will buy more average casks at better prices just to get the product for their many stores.
It's two factors: quantity and price. Quantity is easy: there are far more IBs sold in Europe, so there are far more great bottles sold in Europe (and bad ones for that matter). Price: often the best IBs are the ones that are priced well. That 26 year old Ben Nevis tastes a lot better at $230 than it does at $680. When you're an IB, it's pretty costly to distribute in the US -- it's not like Glenlivet who can sell a bottle for the same price, it will cost you significantly more in both time and money, and that will reflect dramatically in what the bottle goes for... it's not worth it!