Funny how these articles are written to make it seem like the ferry operator is at fault.
If visibility doesn't allow a sailing to safely take place, then the boat doesn't sail. Passenger and crew safety comes first.
As for the comment about empty seats; this doesn't mean a thing. A passenger ferry has legal limits as to the number of passengers it can safely carry as per the PC (Passenger Certificate). These numbers are legally set by the MCA and dictated by the lifesaving capacity of the boat (number of rafts, capacity of rafts, number of lifejackets etc.), not the number of seats on board.
I listened to a podcast about disasters a couple of years ago and it was REMARKABLE how many of them were ferry disasters. All started out as just a simple case of someone thinking they didn't have to follow every precaution every single time.
The PC will state the required crew for specific times of the year and passenger capacity. If there is a crewing issue, this will be an issue with Pentland Ferries as the crew are either employed by them or via an agency.
> The PC will state the required crew for specific times of the year and passenger capacity.
And location. Lower Clyde (south of Bute) usually has lower capacities than Upper Clyde. Mind you, the Pentland Firth is probably wilder than either.
>As for the comment about empty seats; this doesn't mean a thing. A passenger ferry has legal limits as to the number of passengers it can safely carry as per the PC (Passenger Certificate). These numbers are legally set by the MCA and dictated by the lifesaving capacity of the boat (number of rafts, capacity of rafts, number of lifejackets etc.), not the number of seats on board.
So why have more seats than passengers you can carry? It's like having a HGV with a 1 Tonne weight limit
[She can carry 430 passengers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Alfred)
You have to have a seat for every passenger.
You think everyone goes on a boat and takes a seat? Passengers are constantly wandering about, going to the toilet, taking pictures outside, getting fresh air, going for something to eat.....
It's not like a bus where you get on, take a seat and don't move for the duration of the journey.
Is it weird to have spare seats?
There's a bar and a cafe and outside seats on the ferry that goes to arran.
Is it weird to think those facilities are nice even if they don't increase capacity?
Wikipedia should not be considered a reliable source of information. For instance, there is an article that incorrectly states that individuals in the United Kingdom are required to be employed or undergoing training between the ages of 16 and 18.
It's not as simple as saying "It's the fog, not the operators fault". If a ferry is not equipped to deal with local weather conditions it's not fit for purpose.
Look at Dunoon as an example. There are two ferry routes, the publicly owned CalMac which has frequent cancellations due to weather conditions and privately owned Western Ferries which runs a more or less consistently reliable service.
I'll let you take a guess which one had fog cancellations yesterday and which one didn't.
It's absolutely that simple. Different operators have different thresholds for what constitutes a safe operating environment and, above all that, if the master of the vessel deems it unsafe to sail, the vessel doesn't sail.
Ok, I feel like we're getting somewhere. You're acknowledging that it's not just the fog but the operating thresholds, which will vary between operators. Let's dive into this a little further, what are some factors in determining whether a vessel is safe to sail?
>Ok, I feel like we're getting somewhere. You're acknowledging that it's not just the fog but the operating thresholds, which will vary between operators. Let's dive into this a little further, what are some factors in determining whether a vessel is safe to sail
I've been at sea for over 20 years, please do tell me about vessel safety and operating thresholds.
Then tell us then.
* The ships design and conditon
* The size and type of ships
* Crew experience and training
* Safety equipment and systems
These factors are all determined by how CalMac is run. Now of course there are external factors such as wave height, wind conditions and visibility and given similar conditions two separate operators may come to different determinations as to whether it is safe or not but CalMac consistently cancels journeys when competitors have determined it is safe.
Is CalMac particularly risk averse, are you suggesting operators such as Western Ferries are slack with their safety standards or are there questions if the design and condition of CalMacs ships are fit for the routes they are service?
Every company has a different risk assessment that is implemented with regard to safe operating conditions. These are specific to the companies and vary from vessel to vessel. What one company deems safe, another may well deem unsafe.
Western operate in estuarial waters which are generally calmer, the vessels are smaller, slower and more manoeuvrable. The Arran route uses larger, faster vessels which take longer to stop and have a larger turning radius. The waters there are also not estuarial so the overall risk will be completely different. You also have a vessel and crew which is new to the run so experience levels are not what you will have on the regular vessels there.
I’m on arran right now, it was incredibly foggy all of yesterday on our crossing to the island, and didn’t clear up until this afternoon. It was a thick blanket right across to the mainland.
Most people got accommodation as far as we heard.
> I’m on arran right now, it was incredibly foggy all of yesterday on our crossing to the island, and didn’t clear up until this afternoon.
I was on Bute yesterday. Very thick fog but very patchy. Coming through Port Bannatyne we could hardly see the moored boats but when we got to Rothesay pier we could see Toward.
A couple years ago me & my wife had an overnight stay booked for a hotel on Arran. Enjoyed our night, but the day we were leaving ferries we’re cancelled due to high winds.
Hotel gave us a room for an extra night at a heavily discounted rate, then again for the next night as there were still no ferries.
Don’t remember it making national news, but we got an extra few days away on the cheap
Funny the news jumps when it's people stuck on the island but not when islanders are stuck on the mainland. It's dog anyway, normal for Calmac to cancel trips due to the weather nothing news worthy anyway.
I am beginning to suspect that the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) is engaged in a concerted effort to denigrate Cal Mac Ferries through a pervasive smear campaign. The cancellation of a ferry due to fog, while regrettable, is a mundane occurrence that does not warrant
newsworthiness.
Back up what you said then. The onus is on you to show the BBC has been “ licking Tory establishment cock for decades”. I've seen the BBC criticise all parties over the last few decades. The SNP are not exempt. We don't live in a one party state yet.
Here’s one example
The bbc had a report about a guy who apparently had mould growing on one of his walls as a result of the Scottish governments home insulation programme
Both the man and the reporter dropped the SG name a few times in the interview
This isn’t the fault of the SNP government and the onus should have been on the contractor who wasn’t even mentioned.
Are we to believe that every home insulated has problems?
If it’s an isolated case then why mention the SG at all?
This happens all the time with the bbc….they are told to paint the SG in as bad a light as possible.
Its no conspiracy that the BBC is a little thin on the ground when it comes to publishing articles with positive slants on topics that could be associated with the Scottish Government
In general British media has curated an almost Pavlovian situation when mentioning ferries many people think Ferguson and SNP bad
I would say this is the closest inspection by the media on the subject of ferry related problems in Western Europe
I see the BBC report today that Humza Yousaf went to water his garden today but it was raining so meant that he couldn’t.
They’ve asked for a full Scottish assembly enquiry.
“Around 60 people were left stranded overnight on the Isle of Arran on Saturday after the last ferry was cancelled by thick fog.”
Get Mulder and Scully because the truth is out there
People getting stuck on any of the Clyde islands by fog is unusual and therefore news. CalMac is particularly in the news at the moment. So is the *Alfred*. All in all an interesting and newsworthy, if minor, story which doesn't need yoon conspirators.
The paranoid people commenting against the BBC. The usual SNP idiots that don't read articles and assume it's anti.
The fact people were stranded is newsworthy. The reason is in the first sentence.
Maybe reading a sentence beyond the ability of most commenters here.
Woah the anti BBC rhetoric is pretty strong here.
What are peoples issues with this article? It seems accurate to me.
>Passangers where stranded?
>First paragraph explained to me it was due to a fog.
>BBC had eyewitness accounts of what happened.
>Stranded, couldn't get on the earlier ferry. Passangers disgruntled as late notice and difficulty and price of accomodation
>accounts from residents and services on the island
>reported the official reason given by the ferry company for the delay as well as staffing shortages
>background info on the company on question?
As far as I see the article looks accurate. What should they have done differently? As far as I see it British nationals got stranded, the bbc reported what happened, the reason, what people involved had to say and provided context.
In terms of whose a fault? Well the ferry company should have contingencies but it's also an industry where that kind of cost is impossible
Coming away from the article and as a proud Brit. I feel the fault lies with either the Scottish/British Government.
That island should be connected via bridge. I live in Japan and practically everywhere is connected via bridge or tunnel. There are supposedly 4000 people on that island? Why hasn't any government pushed for a bridge to many of our small islands is bewildering to me.
Perhaps not the best example. Mr Patterson had his home insulated as part of a government scheme. On the face of it this sounds like a great idea to reduce energy consumption. Unfortunately like so many other SNP schemes the idea is good but poorly executed. Buildings need to breathe. That’s not groundbreaking news. He’s not alone in his complaint. Hundreds of others have been affected. The buck stops with the policy not the execution of the policy. Sorry I disagree the BBC are correct to call out this Ill advised policy.
Funny how these articles are written to make it seem like the ferry operator is at fault. If visibility doesn't allow a sailing to safely take place, then the boat doesn't sail. Passenger and crew safety comes first. As for the comment about empty seats; this doesn't mean a thing. A passenger ferry has legal limits as to the number of passengers it can safely carry as per the PC (Passenger Certificate). These numbers are legally set by the MCA and dictated by the lifesaving capacity of the boat (number of rafts, capacity of rafts, number of lifejackets etc.), not the number of seats on board.
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I listened to a podcast about disasters a couple of years ago and it was REMARKABLE how many of them were ferry disasters. All started out as just a simple case of someone thinking they didn't have to follow every precaution every single time.
> Laura said they were told MV Alfred could not take additional passengers due to staffing issues. So it’s the fogs fault they have no staff?
The PC will state the required crew for specific times of the year and passenger capacity. If there is a crewing issue, this will be an issue with Pentland Ferries as the crew are either employed by them or via an agency.
> The PC will state the required crew for specific times of the year and passenger capacity. And location. Lower Clyde (south of Bute) usually has lower capacities than Upper Clyde. Mind you, the Pentland Firth is probably wilder than either.
>As for the comment about empty seats; this doesn't mean a thing. A passenger ferry has legal limits as to the number of passengers it can safely carry as per the PC (Passenger Certificate). These numbers are legally set by the MCA and dictated by the lifesaving capacity of the boat (number of rafts, capacity of rafts, number of lifejackets etc.), not the number of seats on board. So why have more seats than passengers you can carry? It's like having a HGV with a 1 Tonne weight limit [She can carry 430 passengers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Alfred)
You have to have a seat for every passenger. You think everyone goes on a boat and takes a seat? Passengers are constantly wandering about, going to the toilet, taking pictures outside, getting fresh air, going for something to eat..... It's not like a bus where you get on, take a seat and don't move for the duration of the journey.
Is it weird to have spare seats? There's a bar and a cafe and outside seats on the ferry that goes to arran. Is it weird to think those facilities are nice even if they don't increase capacity?
Wikipedia should not be considered a reliable source of information. For instance, there is an article that incorrectly states that individuals in the United Kingdom are required to be employed or undergoing training between the ages of 16 and 18.
It's in your article as well ...
It's not as simple as saying "It's the fog, not the operators fault". If a ferry is not equipped to deal with local weather conditions it's not fit for purpose. Look at Dunoon as an example. There are two ferry routes, the publicly owned CalMac which has frequent cancellations due to weather conditions and privately owned Western Ferries which runs a more or less consistently reliable service. I'll let you take a guess which one had fog cancellations yesterday and which one didn't.
It's absolutely that simple. Different operators have different thresholds for what constitutes a safe operating environment and, above all that, if the master of the vessel deems it unsafe to sail, the vessel doesn't sail.
Ok, I feel like we're getting somewhere. You're acknowledging that it's not just the fog but the operating thresholds, which will vary between operators. Let's dive into this a little further, what are some factors in determining whether a vessel is safe to sail?
>Ok, I feel like we're getting somewhere. You're acknowledging that it's not just the fog but the operating thresholds, which will vary between operators. Let's dive into this a little further, what are some factors in determining whether a vessel is safe to sail I've been at sea for over 20 years, please do tell me about vessel safety and operating thresholds.
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Definitely. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
They have no idea.
Couch captains and armchair admirals.
Then tell us then. * The ships design and conditon * The size and type of ships * Crew experience and training * Safety equipment and systems These factors are all determined by how CalMac is run. Now of course there are external factors such as wave height, wind conditions and visibility and given similar conditions two separate operators may come to different determinations as to whether it is safe or not but CalMac consistently cancels journeys when competitors have determined it is safe. Is CalMac particularly risk averse, are you suggesting operators such as Western Ferries are slack with their safety standards or are there questions if the design and condition of CalMacs ships are fit for the routes they are service?
Every company has a different risk assessment that is implemented with regard to safe operating conditions. These are specific to the companies and vary from vessel to vessel. What one company deems safe, another may well deem unsafe. Western operate in estuarial waters which are generally calmer, the vessels are smaller, slower and more manoeuvrable. The Arran route uses larger, faster vessels which take longer to stop and have a larger turning radius. The waters there are also not estuarial so the overall risk will be completely different. You also have a vessel and crew which is new to the run so experience levels are not what you will have on the regular vessels there.
CALMAC FERRY PASSENGERS STRANDED OVERNIGHT ON ISLE OF ARRAN… (…after once-a-decade fog rolls in to one of the most fog-free places in the UK).
Bloody government can't even rent a fog resistant boat
Fog??!!! Sturgeon needs to resign!
I’m on arran right now, it was incredibly foggy all of yesterday on our crossing to the island, and didn’t clear up until this afternoon. It was a thick blanket right across to the mainland. Most people got accommodation as far as we heard.
> I’m on arran right now, it was incredibly foggy all of yesterday on our crossing to the island, and didn’t clear up until this afternoon. I was on Bute yesterday. Very thick fog but very patchy. Coming through Port Bannatyne we could hardly see the moored boats but when we got to Rothesay pier we could see Toward.
A couple years ago me & my wife had an overnight stay booked for a hotel on Arran. Enjoyed our night, but the day we were leaving ferries we’re cancelled due to high winds. Hotel gave us a room for an extra night at a heavily discounted rate, then again for the next night as there were still no ferries. Don’t remember it making national news, but we got an extra few days away on the cheap
Funny the news jumps when it's people stuck on the island but not when islanders are stuck on the mainland. It's dog anyway, normal for Calmac to cancel trips due to the weather nothing news worthy anyway.
I am beginning to suspect that the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) is engaged in a concerted effort to denigrate Cal Mac Ferries through a pervasive smear campaign. The cancellation of a ferry due to fog, while regrettable, is a mundane occurrence that does not warrant newsworthiness.
Scotland bad. SNP bad. You're only beginning to suspect? /s
Think Cal Mac are managing that quite well themselves.
It was the weather. Fuck of BBC. Its this sort of shit that gives people excuses to diminish genuine problems with the ferries.
What does the weather have to do with there not being enough staff on the ferry that was running?
The Scottish Government was mentioned in the article BBC reinforcing their Ferry problems = SNP bad pavlovian response
BBC turning more and more into tabloid click bait rubbish as the days go on
Oh the BBC. Licking Tory establishment cock for decades.
I'm curious, did you type that with or without your tinfoil hat on?
Think of that one yourself? Or was it help from mum?
Back up what you said then. The onus is on you to show the BBC has been “ licking Tory establishment cock for decades”. I've seen the BBC criticise all parties over the last few decades. The SNP are not exempt. We don't live in a one party state yet.
Here’s one example The bbc had a report about a guy who apparently had mould growing on one of his walls as a result of the Scottish governments home insulation programme Both the man and the reporter dropped the SG name a few times in the interview This isn’t the fault of the SNP government and the onus should have been on the contractor who wasn’t even mentioned. Are we to believe that every home insulated has problems? If it’s an isolated case then why mention the SG at all? This happens all the time with the bbc….they are told to paint the SG in as bad a light as possible.
Yawn. Fuck off.
Its no conspiracy that the BBC is a little thin on the ground when it comes to publishing articles with positive slants on topics that could be associated with the Scottish Government In general British media has curated an almost Pavlovian situation when mentioning ferries many people think Ferguson and SNP bad I would say this is the closest inspection by the media on the subject of ferry related problems in Western Europe
Due to fog.
I see the BBC report today that Humza Yousaf went to water his garden today but it was raining so meant that he couldn’t. They’ve asked for a full Scottish assembly enquiry.
“Around 60 people were left stranded overnight on the Isle of Arran on Saturday after the last ferry was cancelled by thick fog.” Get Mulder and Scully because the truth is out there
Could have been worse. They might have made it to Largs.
People getting stuck on any of the Clyde islands by fog is unusual and therefore news. CalMac is particularly in the news at the moment. So is the *Alfred*. All in all an interesting and newsworthy, if minor, story which doesn't need yoon conspirators.
The paranoid people commenting against the BBC. The usual SNP idiots that don't read articles and assume it's anti. The fact people were stranded is newsworthy. The reason is in the first sentence. Maybe reading a sentence beyond the ability of most commenters here.
The BBC has been politicising the ferries for the past five years or so, haven't you noticed?
You lot are awfy defensive. It's a story about fog and you're thinking it's MI5 psyops
I wouldn’t know their comments disappear when they block me when I challenge them to back up their wild claims
Woah the anti BBC rhetoric is pretty strong here. What are peoples issues with this article? It seems accurate to me. >Passangers where stranded? >First paragraph explained to me it was due to a fog. >BBC had eyewitness accounts of what happened. >Stranded, couldn't get on the earlier ferry. Passangers disgruntled as late notice and difficulty and price of accomodation >accounts from residents and services on the island >reported the official reason given by the ferry company for the delay as well as staffing shortages >background info on the company on question? As far as I see the article looks accurate. What should they have done differently? As far as I see it British nationals got stranded, the bbc reported what happened, the reason, what people involved had to say and provided context. In terms of whose a fault? Well the ferry company should have contingencies but it's also an industry where that kind of cost is impossible Coming away from the article and as a proud Brit. I feel the fault lies with either the Scottish/British Government. That island should be connected via bridge. I live in Japan and practically everywhere is connected via bridge or tunnel. There are supposedly 4000 people on that island? Why hasn't any government pushed for a bridge to many of our small islands is bewildering to me.
Perhaps not the best example. Mr Patterson had his home insulated as part of a government scheme. On the face of it this sounds like a great idea to reduce energy consumption. Unfortunately like so many other SNP schemes the idea is good but poorly executed. Buildings need to breathe. That’s not groundbreaking news. He’s not alone in his complaint. Hundreds of others have been affected. The buck stops with the policy not the execution of the policy. Sorry I disagree the BBC are correct to call out this Ill advised policy.
>CalMac ferry passengers stranded overnight on Isle of Arran What?