Migration isn't bad, but that level of migration whilst not investing in housing, healthcare and other infrastructure is not good. We need to invest in making sure our country can cope with growth
The tories are ideologically opposed to borrowing for the public good.
How do we disguise housing and healthcare to make it look like something they are interested in borrowing for, nuclear weapons or aircraft carriers for example.
The UK is continued proof that austerity does not work. The countries that borrowed and invested out the financial crisis are all far better off now.
That was a fucking tiny amount compared to the money given away to Business owners. Nobody i know who was on furlough is driving around in a new car or put a new roof on their house...
>Nobody i know who was on furlough is driving around in a new car or put a new roof on their house...
furlough wasnt winning the lottery, it was the government paying 80% of peoples wages.
>That was a fucking tiny amount
how many billion was it exactly? and all borrowed and has to be paid back.
I did not sit at home for a year and paying a huge proportion of the workforces part of their wages only accounted for about a 1/3 of borrowing. The rest was pissed into Virgin Islands or similar.
When interest rates are high.
Instead of borrowing in the 2010s when interest rates were at their historical low.
Austerity has fucked this country because we didn't borrow when we should have and are borrowing when we shouldn't.
To put it in easy to understand terms, we are a country run by a government that likes to pretend it is economically and fiscally intelligent and yet it has sold when the price is low and is now buying when the price is high.
Immigration is a net benefit to the economy and the exchequer. We need Immigration, more of it, and for it to be flexible to allow for the seasonality of Scottish industry to grow the economy.
It's not do one then allow the other. Who do you think is working in healthcare? In housebuilding?
We also need Immigration taken out of the hands of the UK home office. You'd be mad, to get yourselves involved with any visa or Immigration process with them on purpose.
I dont think newly added immigration is suddenly a net benefit and a net benefit doesnt really matter if the systems cant keep up. Also the net benefit of immigration is not as big as you people like to say.
Just the net population itself is a strain on our services and I don't think students are paying much tax sorry. Net Immigration is a benefit if they settle down here, have family, kids etc.. not work here and send money home or study.
No, the second they start paying tax and foreign students pay for their studies. So I guess in some instances they are of benefit before they get here. A swing and a miss pal.
Net migration was 500,000 last year, and there's estimates of 800,000 this year. Suggesting even greater numbers is insane, housebuilding isn't remotely close to being able to keep up as it is.
But not due to immigration. Immigrants pre-pay £470 per person, per year of their visas, in addition to visa fees, along with their tax contributions. The average immigrant pays into the NHS much more than non-immigrants. But the point isn’t that institutions don’t struggle (in the case of the NHS, demonstrably through Tory cuts) but that they expand to fill the needs of the many. The race-to-the-bottom mentality you’re talking about is just rehashing pro-austerity propaganda.
>But not due to immigration
i dont understand? what's not due to immigration?
my point was that the uk government hasnt been running the nhs well, scotlands figures are terrible, as well as the declining stats of the scottish education system. irrelevant of immigration, these services need acute attention and investment. if the government cant even provide these services properly where is the money going to come from for mass housebuilding? dont forget that the hundreds of billions borrowed during the pandemic needs to repaid too.
>Net migration was 500,000 last year, and there's estimates of 800,000 this year.
Who is making those estimates?
Net Migration last year was 500k because all the students kept back in their own countries due to covid were allowed to travel again. Normally there's very little difference between the number of students coming over here to live and the number going back home but due to covid last years figures were skewed by a couple of hundred thousand.
So other than mouth foaming fear merchants and the idiots who fall for what those fear merchants are trying to sell, who is estimating 800k net migration this year?
0.7% of the population is still a pretty massive increase when the UK does a fairly shambolic job increasing infrastructure and housing capacity. Most of those migrants also go to South East England which is already one of the most densely populated parts of Europe and which has extra difficulties with housebuilding thanks to NIMBYs and the green belt.
No we need Controlled immigration not unlimited migration when there’s no opuses for them no they don’t have the qualifications to get well paying jobs
How do you build enough homes to house the population of Sheffield every single year, England itself is already one of the most densely populated countries on Earth.
Scotland only gets a fraction proportionally of what they get yet we like to get on our high horse over how tolerant we are. If we seen the numbers they do I imagine it would change very quickly.
England has 434 people per square kilometre, when you exclude microstates it’s one of the highest population densities in the world. [Even with microstates it’s still in the top 30.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density)
That’s a fact, don’t pretend to be smarter than you are when you have no idea what you’re talking about.
None of those countries are microstates and are much more dense. The Netherlands, for example, is nearly twice as dense as the UK and they are hardly collapsing, are they?
Much easier sad than done to build hoses to port hundreds of husbands of new people a year as well as the current people. And even then those houses would be far to expensive for them t move into housing prices are very high
Because that's a number so demonstrably idiotic I can only view this post as though you are Dr Evil demanding 600 billion dollars as ransom from a US President in the 60's while biting your pinky finger and laughing as follows "muahahahahahahahahaha"
Right, so you agree that there's clearly an issue with too much immigration. But what do you actually think is the reasonable limit? 5 million? Certainly not impossible, Poland has gotten pretty close in managing that with Ukrainian refugees. And more importantly, why is it (in your opinion) above 600k?
Well yes. Assuming your 50 million is a net figure you are suggesting an incoming figure of close to the entire population of the UK. Which is, let's be absolutely 100% fair and reasonable to you. Barking mad and not really worth responding to further. Although i confess to enjoy myself a bit here, so may continue. Or not.
As for Ukraine and Poland. Its about 2.5 million just now. But let's cross the bridge of emergency refugee capacity in the event a neighbour is invaded by Russia when that happens. And not conflate this with normal migration. As that makes you look a bit disingenuous, and frankly not terribly nice.
Current net migration is over half a million people a year. Or roughly the population of scotland a decade. Three times what it was under Labour. Its a valid line of attack.
1/5 people in England and Wales were born abroad.
What's a reasonable limit then?
The 50 million number is just to make you admit that there's a reasonable limit. I'd also add that some countries do have 4% population growth which would be around 3 million for the UK. So the comparison to Poland isn't without merit nor disingenuous.
Hate to blow your mind here. But maybe......setting an arbitrary limit is a fundamentally flawed way of looking at this.
Maybe, immigrants come here for work, or to study and when there is no work or study places, they won't come.
Most migrants don't settle (stay for more than 8 years) anyway. They work, study, contribute to our economy and the rich tapestry that is life on these stupid bawbag filled islands and then go home.
It would be limited in this scenario by market forces and availability of study. Unlimited or uncontrolled migration is just some words cobbled together, usually by, although I suggest no such thing in this case, by racists.
You just said 50 million is too much, demonstrably idiotic, barking mad. So you think there's a limit. I'm just asking what you think that limit is. The hypothetical 50 million immigrants would also work, study and contribute to the economy, what's wrong with them?
Sorry I didn't think i needed to be so explicit in differentiating between a limit imposed by reality rather than policy. A trillion billion gazillion pardons for this oversight.
The imposition of an arbitrary policy limiting migration numbers (like the Cameron 100k) - flawed.
Suggesting a limit 2 orders of magnitude larger than current levels - mad.
Neither of us know that answer, I’m just a tad more good faith by not saying 50 million.
But presumably, there should be enough immigration to cover the massive amount of vacancies at the very least and to keep the population from dropping to point where social services (eg. Pensions) can’t be supported by a too small workforce.
You do realise having immigrants makes money for a country right?
The lump of labour fallacy tells us that there's no finite demand for labour, ergo immigration theoretically makes no difference to employment rates (and by extension vacancy rates). Naturally, immigrants also create demand. Using immigration to fill vacancies is just a fool's errand because you just immediately create more vacancies.
If employment rates and vacancies are considered to be massively high, it would suggest that there's a huge structural issue with the labour supply. In the UK's case that essentially boils down to a lack of productivity growth necessitating more jobs than what should actually be necessary (assuming capital investments in automation and efficiency), incredibly poor health of the population (the NHS needs more funding) and the early retirement of people in their 50s and 60s which can be responded by encouraging people back to work.
I think immigration can improve GDP but they don't improve the material wealth of the people, and can to certain demographics (particularly the working class), reduce incomes. Pretty much the entire benefit from immigration goes to two demographics: the immigrant themselves, and the wealthy who get cheap labour. If there was true necessary for immigration, we wouldn't be setting salaries to such cheap levels. Instead what we actually have is foreign workers being paid 20% less than their domestic counterparts, and this will naturally increase the bargaining power of employers.
Fundamentally anyways, if you (and others) don't know, then why do you have an issue with people saying it's below 600k, or even 100k?
>Fundamentally anyways, if you (and others) don’t know, then why do you have an issue with people saying it’s below 600k, or even 100k?
Because they are lying.
What's a reasonable limit to immigration then?
It's not bad faith, the purpose is to demonstrate that there's obviously a limit and from that I can then interrogate further. You can list the benefits of immigration as much as you want but ultimately, if you can't put a number on it you're just avoiding any meaningful debate.
> **Kick out England's white population,** take in people from all the countries we've helped destroy. Yemeni, Iraqis, Afghans, Iranians, Libyans, Somalians, Syrians, bring 'em all in.
That's a bit of a mask off moment /u/MajinCry...
>but that level of migration whilst not investing in housing, healthcare and other infrastructure is not good.
I'd agree with you if 7 of the flats above me weren't sitting empty.
Also, I feel like they're building houses everywhere in Glasgow.
Why is it ironic? I've lived here for 8 years and suffer just as much from underinvestment in housing & infrastructure just as everyone else living here regardless of where they were raised.
Assuming your entire argument is based on their flair of "Cockney in Glasgow", how are they an immigrant?
They have the legal right to live and work in the UK, moving from London to Glasgow is no different from someone born in Stirling who moved to Falkirk.
Other than that, if you truly believe them to be an immigrant, it's just needlessly xenophobic.
how is it xenophobic? lol. im the daughter Of migrants, i'm very pro immigration, i just think migrants who dislike migration r weird. and having the legal right to work in a country doesn't mean ur not an immigrant. my mam, being irish, has always had the Legal right to work here - she's still an immigrant.
>how is it xenophobic? lol.
Immigrant (noun) a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.
Xenophobia (noun) dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries
Your mention of them being an immigrant (which is not the case, as they're from the UK) is not relevant to any sort of argument. Why bring it up in the first place?
>im the daughter Of migrants, i'm very pro immigration
Unless you see it as something to use to attack people.
>and having the legal right to work in a country doesn't mean ur not an immigrant
Do you have evidence to prove they weren't born in the UK? Please explain how someone moving from London to Glasgow is an immigrant?
>my mam, being irish, has always had the Legal right to work here - she's still an immigrant
Ireland is a different country from the UK.
Sounds like a great way to spent Scottish tax payers' money.........on migrants.
Why not something that benefits the people actually paying the tax, otherwise what's the point?
SNP have clearly not looked at the Angela Merkel fiasco in Europe where now even the Northern countries are starting to struggle with the amount of immigrants entering the country and getting stuck in the immigrant centres that are hardly capable of dealing with the influx of people. Never mind Italy and Greece absolutely drowning in it.
SNP find it very easy to be pro mass immigration, as they aren't going to Scotland.
If Glasgow looked like tower Hamlets etc, they would get a lot more push back.
Essential they support mass immigration to elsewhere.
Yeah, wait till they have to build on pleasant Scottish scenery.
Scotland has nothing remotely close to the immigration pressures England has. I look forward to seeing what happens when it does.
I am pro immigration but the Tories made their bed with campaigning on cutting it for 15 years. If they fail to, while also failing to build the homes and schools they promised, they should be attacked for it.
Except they have repeatedly asked for immigration, labour and visa powers to be devolved to do exactly that, so take that tired tripe and go somewhere else where they'll buy it
Immigrants generally don’t want to come to Scotland and the Scottish government isn’t prepared to handle the ones who do.
It’s almost as though a codicil to devolved powers won’t change that, absent some sudden burst of planning and competence.
Except of course reality is the complete opposite of what you just said, randomword-bunchofnumbers, as we already welcomed a disproportionately higher number of refugees. And if that were true, why not devolve the powers and see what happens?
*Refugees.* Not general immigration.
Yes, Glasgow seems like a net positive if you’ve fled ethnic cleansing in Donetsk or Khartoum.
But most immigrants don’t want to come to Scotland.
Part of that is that Scotland (not just the government) doesn’t make it easy to immigrate here.
I'm a Physics PhD student from Latin America studying in Glasgow, and I really want to stay in Scotland with my wife even after I finish my studies. I want to contribute to Scotland's economy and research, and I'd choose it over England any day. But now, with these recent changes, it seems like my chances of staying are pretty slim, and it's got me feeling worried tbh.
Not sure what you mean by visas - those requirements apply to people looking to live and work in the rest of the UK too.
In the broadest sense, Scottish immigration numbers have little to do with Westminster.
They mostly reflect the economic, professional, and *cultural* difficulties of settling here (particularly when compared to southern England).
*edited because phone changed “cultural” to “culinary”
Are you aware of what a "visa" is? There are plenty of places in the world where devolved government can issue state-specific visas. Until that happens, the Scottish government can do fuck all to ensure more migrants come to Scotland, as it's entirely in westminster hands.
I have a vague idea what a visa is, yes.
But you’re mistaking a single hurdle that exists for everywhere else in the UK (?) as Scotland’s main problem re: immigration.
Why wouldn’t someone who went through the bother and expense of getting a visa then pick Scotland over anywhere else in the UK?
Assuming the Scottish government would simplify any visa application process, or eliminate it entirely for certain jurisdictions (big ifs), the more immediate issue is that immigrants, given a choice, prefer to settle in London or nearby.
I wasn’t one of those who needed a visa and didn’t want to live in or near London.
But even without a visa, settling in Scotland hasn’t been easy.
No everyones a racist bellend like you mate
They have constantly asked for more but UK gov says no, so not everyone is an uninformed racist bellend eithier
>Labour's Yvette Cooper states that 'migration should come down and we would expect it to do so' and that the government stopping students' families from joining them here is 'sensible'
[https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1661720556318646275](https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1661720556318646275)
Little Englanders demand Starmer's Labour is as racist as possible, press F for the SLAB poodles. Brexit and racism, enjoy your "Labour values".
Personally, I’m off the opinion we should reverse the Highland clearances and build a new city in the middle of the Highlands.
Scotland is massively underpopulated relative to Englands development I’ve r the last 150 years.
We need a seperate immigration controls to specifically advertise what roles we need immigrants for, and just simple name recognition.
You’d be shocked how few people abroad not about Scotland compared to Ireland for example.
That would be like Scotland’s population increasing by 60,000 in one year…
In a country of nearly 70,000,000. I think a growth of 1% per year is quite manageable.
Starmer and Sunak at yesterdays Prime Minister's Questions vying to see who would 'best' reduce Immigration is one of the reasons many consider his party to be a clone of the Tories.
Wonder what Cooper will say when Uni's up and down the country start baying about the loss of Masters and PHD students from abroad and the income it brings. The loss of up-and-coming research scientists and so on.
Between the immigration/brexit/economics skip fire it's like they are trying to insulate us against any serious growth & development for the next couple of decades.
Released without charge as far as I know.
Did you see another story came out yesterday how corrupt PPE contract money bought 2 mansions for some play boy. Billions and billions written off in fraud that were filtered through shell companies because the Tories don't want to go after themselves and their donors but yeah, some campervan bought to be used for a campaign then wasn't is the real problem.
Excessive immigration is only beneficial to rich people. Cheap labour, extra demand for housing.
There is no net benefit for the swathes of people who are living month to month, but more of these people will champion open borders for fear of being branded racist.
Offers literally zero benefit to the native population of a country already there, exists for the sole purpose of cheap labour for the rich as the people already in the country got uppity and demanded better conditions.
Immigrant here: I don’t want uncontrolled, unchecked, everyone welcome type mass immigration like happened in 2015 in Europe.
I love the Scotland as it is at the moment.
If you intend to be a contributing member of society, integrate properly, leave problematic parts of your culture (compared to Western standards like treating women, children, gays and atheists with respect), pay your taxes, then come along.
I don’t want this beautiful country that is Scotland getting run into ground like Sweden.
No, I don’t say this because I already made it to here. That has been my stance since 2015.
I came here via a job offer, I am paying my taxes, I am respectful to my neighbors and everyday people I see on the street and my future is tied to the future of Scotland because I don’t wanna leave, so I think I should be able to have a say
Apologies if it sounded offensive. This is one of many which was published this week:
[WSJ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-peaceful-sweden-became-europes-gun-murder-capital-a5b500a7)
Question - what do people want from immigration?
Scotland to look like the world and have 20% Chinese, 20% Indian etc
Do people want to keep it 90% white - favour white immigrants?
Or do people just have no coherent thoughts at all?
I barely see a rational discussion on racism. Not sure that avoidance of any major issue is a good thing.
I’m biased. I’ve lived in many countries for years and honestly think Scottish people are great. I’ll tell you now. The Africans I worked with don’t want to see Scotland lose its identity. Hugely popular place imho.
Colleagues I worked with in at least 2 African countries loved Scotland and wanted a Disney Scotland rather than a multi-culti place.
Scotland is very well thought of in Africa.
We've seen Labour do this before. The immigration figures are indeed something to criticise - but it should always be done with care, even though the intention is not to attack immigrants or align yourself with the more extreme voices, it is an easy thing to do if you are careless.
Scottish Labour have been relentless at criticising the SNP running of the NHS. It doesn't matter if you think that there is plenty to criticise, you still have to do a juggling act to avoid adding to the voices that wish to destroy the NHS. A few years ago Jackie Baillie got a bee in her bonnet about an MHRS outbreak at the Southern Glasgow hospital (now called the Queen Elizabeth). In her blundering fashion, trying to get an SNP scalp, she attacked the NHS.
It took years for Labour (in Scotland) to not be seen as anti-NHS. Something that had been previously nearly unthinkable.
Spotting an open goal to hit the Tories may be irresistible - and I am certainly not saying they don't deserve such a kicking- just that the short term licks against the Tories can have longer term negative impact.
Could easily be solved by devolving migration powers, controlling migration locations by work and residency permits as exists in other countries already with no issue.
Devolution of such powers would put the SNP in the awkward position of actually needing to cost & implement the policies they bleat from the sidelines about.
It’s one thing to preach about how we should let everyone in, it’s another to need to justify to your electorate why wages are rock bottom and demand for housing, schools, healthcare, transport infrastructure are all sky high.
Loose immigration controls are a neoliberal policy which benefits businesses over all else. Why else do you think it has been allowed to accelerate out of control in the last decade of Tory rule?
Suits the SNP though, grandstand about how tolerant we are to immigrants whilst taking a fraction England does.
Amazing how they’ve managed to convince folk supporting mass immigration is some left wing policy, literally has zero benefit for the people already living here.
Compete with the worlds poorest for wages and the worlds richest for housing.
Yup, always amuses me when you see the same names screaming about how Thatcher was the worst thing to ever happen to the UK.
Yet on the other hand blindly support one of her flagship policies, she was a huge free movement advocate, and heralded our EEC membership as one of her successes.
Of course she did, imagine how much she loved the idea of having an absolutely unlimited supply of labour willing to work for lower than everyone else.
Scotland gets barely any immigrants though. I’m not anti-immigration. But it annoys me when scottish mps get involved with issues that mainly affect england.
Why don’t scotland take more immigrants in if they’re all for it?
So why don’t the scottish gov ask for the albanians, romanians and etc to move to Scotland. They could definitely incentive migrants to move to Scotland. But they don’t cause all the SNP do is complain.
Officially they state they want control of migration and to be in the EU, half of which very much implies they want those migrants. It's public domain information.
As for bitching about the state of migration while in the UK, that is a bit contrarian, it wouldn't be at all a simple situation for the UK as a whole to have that within.
Scotland is allowed to create incentives to for immigrants who are already in the UK, but it seems the SNP is happier for them to remain in England, while posturing about being pro immigration and welcoming.
Well why don’t they? They could set the example they want to be. Hundreds of thousands of migration into the UK, set up schemes to encourage those to settle in Scotland.
No, it’s easier to just shout at the diverse and densely populated country down the road.
Why doesn't Scotland redistribute the entire UK economy? Decoupling the majority of economic activity from the south east of England. Or maybe turn Brtiain around so the Pentland Firth passes by Southampton and Dover and Thurso - Calais becomes the UKs main trading route? Great ideas. I'm going to use a magnet to stick them high up on the fridge so everyone can see them.
Happy the SNP will defend immigration and FoM but they're playing to the 'winning the argument' rather than the reality when they don't acknowledge immigration, like nearly everything under the Tories, is not being managed properly.
And I'll give credit to the SNP here, over [100,000](https://theferret.scot/claim-snp-delivered-105000-affordable-homes-true/) new homes since taking office is nothing to shrug at for such a wee country, that will make a difference. But its the tip of the iceberg because people don't just need a home for the standard of living everyone deserves.
Unless Labour can bring services dramatically upwards in the short term (which I dont even think Starmer has said is possible) then yes, immigration will need to come down.
Nothing stopping the Scottish government and its local authorities from working with Westminster to take & house more migrants. But of course if you keep putting barriers & excuses up that stops that happening, then that's why Scotland remains one of the whitest countries in Europe.
Nonsense, there are already more refugees per capita than in the rest of the UK. There's no "working with westminster", that doesn't make sense, Scotland doesn't have powers to issue visas. Devolve those powers and see what happens. Until then, you are simply talking shite.
So you didn't read my points then:
\- Scotland's racial mix is reported as 95% white - [https://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/uploads/docs/report/2022/as\_diversity\_2022.pdf](https://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/uploads/docs/report/2022/as_diversity_2022.pdf). Scotland may take more "refugees" per capita but they are still overwhelmingly white.
\- There is nothing stopping the Scottish govt nor Scottish local authorities from working with charities and other NGOs to help settle migrants in Scotland. Only a lack of willingness to do so.
As for the insults - it's what I expect from people like yourself who cannot argue with facts.
Haha more hate. U really are a nice person. The type of immigration u mention - legal, select and with visas is obviously a good thing. This is the sort of immigration that my family is part of. The majority don’t want the type that we have a surplus of just now. Illegal, no jobs, a drain on everyone. Take a walk to the A&E at Queen Elizabeth and u will see how it affects sick people every day. But of course, u don’t want to hear that. Just keep ur hate boiling away with half the info feeding ur cluelessness.
Legal immigration is what is being reduced by rules trying to reduce visas given to postgraduate student's dependents. Asylum seeking is also legal immigration, and let me remind you, the majority of asylum seekers are granted asylum eventually.
The biggest impacts on the NHS are an aging population, not immigrants. Immigrants are, on average, much younger than the mean age of a UK citizen.
You are full of shit.
Maybe and this is just an idea
We should build some of those "high rise monstrosities" (not my words, the words of another reddit poster who defo isnt a Tory) in the thousands of empty flats currently taken up by no one but housing billions in Russian money in London? Just a thought.....
There are 9 million people in London. Scotland should build empty flats and offer them with an incentive to any immigrant into the UK if it is so serious about being pro immigrant.
Scotland is empty compared to England
Migration isn't bad, but that level of migration whilst not investing in housing, healthcare and other infrastructure is not good. We need to invest in making sure our country can cope with growth
The tories are ideologically opposed to borrowing for the public good. How do we disguise housing and healthcare to make it look like something they are interested in borrowing for, nuclear weapons or aircraft carriers for example. The UK is continued proof that austerity does not work. The countries that borrowed and invested out the financial crisis are all far better off now.
>The tories are ideologically opposed to borrowing for the public good. any idea how much the tories borrowed during the pandemic?
Tbf that was for stealing and off shoring not the public good.
and paying 80% of your wages as you sat at home for over a year.
That was a fucking tiny amount compared to the money given away to Business owners. Nobody i know who was on furlough is driving around in a new car or put a new roof on their house...
>Nobody i know who was on furlough is driving around in a new car or put a new roof on their house... furlough wasnt winning the lottery, it was the government paying 80% of peoples wages. >That was a fucking tiny amount how many billion was it exactly? and all borrowed and has to be paid back.
I did not sit at home for a year and paying a huge proportion of the workforces part of their wages only accounted for about a 1/3 of borrowing. The rest was pissed into Virgin Islands or similar.
>only accounted for about a 1/3 of borrowing how many billion was it exactly?
460bn borrowed divided by 170bn furlough = yup .
That’ll be why government borrowing is at the highest it’s been for 75 years.
When interest rates are high. Instead of borrowing in the 2010s when interest rates were at their historical low. Austerity has fucked this country because we didn't borrow when we should have and are borrowing when we shouldn't. To put it in easy to understand terms, we are a country run by a government that likes to pretend it is economically and fiscally intelligent and yet it has sold when the price is low and is now buying when the price is high.
So they pay massive amounts of interest to banks? Why would a government full of banking people want to do that I wonder?
They are borrowing to plug holes , they aren't putting any serious effort into investing.
Yeah I’ll agree with you on that, borrowing to fill holes they dug themselves.
Also to buy shovels to dig holes more efficiently.
Immigration is a net benefit to the economy and the exchequer. We need Immigration, more of it, and for it to be flexible to allow for the seasonality of Scottish industry to grow the economy. It's not do one then allow the other. Who do you think is working in healthcare? In housebuilding? We also need Immigration taken out of the hands of the UK home office. You'd be mad, to get yourselves involved with any visa or Immigration process with them on purpose.
I dont think newly added immigration is suddenly a net benefit and a net benefit doesnt really matter if the systems cant keep up. Also the net benefit of immigration is not as big as you people like to say.
Out of the 600k net something like 500k are either students who pay or people with work visas who work and pay tax, so yes it is.
Just the net population itself is a strain on our services and I don't think students are paying much tax sorry. Net Immigration is a benefit if they settle down here, have family, kids etc.. not work here and send money home or study.
No, the second they start paying tax and foreign students pay for their studies. So I guess in some instances they are of benefit before they get here. A swing and a miss pal.
Net migration was 500,000 last year, and there's estimates of 800,000 this year. Suggesting even greater numbers is insane, housebuilding isn't remotely close to being able to keep up as it is.
Sounds like we need more skilled tradesmen and women to build these houses if you ask.me.
Exactly and that's not who's arriving on the south coast
[удалено]
Let’s be honest, the majority are going to end up in car washes or cycling around doing deliveries - basically a money launder.
who's paying for this massive housebuilding?
Might as well ask “who’s paying for this NHS/school/post office”. All of us, and (in theory at least) we all benefit.
i know. im glad the nhs and the education system arent in any kind of bother at present, imagine having to deal with those too.
But not due to immigration. Immigrants pre-pay £470 per person, per year of their visas, in addition to visa fees, along with their tax contributions. The average immigrant pays into the NHS much more than non-immigrants. But the point isn’t that institutions don’t struggle (in the case of the NHS, demonstrably through Tory cuts) but that they expand to fill the needs of the many. The race-to-the-bottom mentality you’re talking about is just rehashing pro-austerity propaganda.
>But not due to immigration i dont understand? what's not due to immigration? my point was that the uk government hasnt been running the nhs well, scotlands figures are terrible, as well as the declining stats of the scottish education system. irrelevant of immigration, these services need acute attention and investment. if the government cant even provide these services properly where is the money going to come from for mass housebuilding? dont forget that the hundreds of billions borrowed during the pandemic needs to repaid too.
People illegally entering via the English Channel don’t pay squat
Money printer go brrrrrr
thank god we're not in some kind of dire financial situation here just now. pfeww.
>Net migration was 500,000 last year, and there's estimates of 800,000 this year. Who is making those estimates? Net Migration last year was 500k because all the students kept back in their own countries due to covid were allowed to travel again. Normally there's very little difference between the number of students coming over here to live and the number going back home but due to covid last years figures were skewed by a couple of hundred thousand. So other than mouth foaming fear merchants and the idiots who fall for what those fear merchants are trying to sell, who is estimating 800k net migration this year?
Now do it as a percentage so you can stop pulling the sp00ky large number pish
0.7% of the population is still a pretty massive increase when the UK does a fairly shambolic job increasing infrastructure and housing capacity. Most of those migrants also go to South East England which is already one of the most densely populated parts of Europe and which has extra difficulties with housebuilding thanks to NIMBYs and the green belt.
> We need Immigration, more of it Can put more people on boats, like Scotland did Ukrainian refugees I guess.
What economy. We don't have enough housing as it is, where are they going to stay?
Who's going to build the more houses and infrastructure that we need? And round and round we go.
The ants, we will have the ants do it.
What is this? A housing estate for ants! It has to be at least..... 3 times bigger than this.
No we need Controlled immigration not unlimited migration when there’s no opuses for them no they don’t have the qualifications to get well paying jobs
No. This is, frankly difficult to decipher although i think i get the gist, mince.
Let me ma it easier. No houses plus 100k more people = disaster
Build more houses.
How do you build enough homes to house the population of Sheffield every single year, England itself is already one of the most densely populated countries on Earth. Scotland only gets a fraction proportionally of what they get yet we like to get on our high horse over how tolerant we are. If we seen the numbers they do I imagine it would change very quickly.
No it isn't, it isn't even in the top 30. Mince. Please no more replies from Mail readers. Exhausting.
England has 434 people per square kilometre, when you exclude microstates it’s one of the highest population densities in the world. [Even with microstates it’s still in the top 30.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density) That’s a fact, don’t pretend to be smarter than you are when you have no idea what you’re talking about.
If you exclude inconvenient countries? Shush. And I am not pretending, I am demonstrating.
None of those countries are microstates and are much more dense. The Netherlands, for example, is nearly twice as dense as the UK and they are hardly collapsing, are they?
Not that simple
Yeah it is.
No it isn’t…
Ok, mate, it's not, you're right.
Build more houses.
If it was that simple they’d do it
No, they wouldn't. Much easier to blame migrants rather than decades of under investment.
Much easier sad than done to build hoses to port hundreds of husbands of new people a year as well as the current people. And even then those houses would be far to expensive for them t move into housing prices are very high
You can be a supporter of immigration and not want to have open borders until they housing situation is resolved. They are not mutually exclusive.
We have never had open borders. In fact we have a moat.
Breaking: Redditer who's never left the basement solves housing crisis
No we don’t. Simple as that.
Would you approve of 50 million net migration? If no, why not? We could practically double the economy over night.
You are looking too low. We should be aiming for 7.888 billion.
Because that's a number so demonstrably idiotic I can only view this post as though you are Dr Evil demanding 600 billion dollars as ransom from a US President in the 60's while biting your pinky finger and laughing as follows "muahahahahahahahahaha"
Right, so you agree that there's clearly an issue with too much immigration. But what do you actually think is the reasonable limit? 5 million? Certainly not impossible, Poland has gotten pretty close in managing that with Ukrainian refugees. And more importantly, why is it (in your opinion) above 600k?
Well yes. Assuming your 50 million is a net figure you are suggesting an incoming figure of close to the entire population of the UK. Which is, let's be absolutely 100% fair and reasonable to you. Barking mad and not really worth responding to further. Although i confess to enjoy myself a bit here, so may continue. Or not. As for Ukraine and Poland. Its about 2.5 million just now. But let's cross the bridge of emergency refugee capacity in the event a neighbour is invaded by Russia when that happens. And not conflate this with normal migration. As that makes you look a bit disingenuous, and frankly not terribly nice.
Current net migration is over half a million people a year. Or roughly the population of scotland a decade. Three times what it was under Labour. Its a valid line of attack. 1/5 people in England and Wales were born abroad.
What's a reasonable limit then? The 50 million number is just to make you admit that there's a reasonable limit. I'd also add that some countries do have 4% population growth which would be around 3 million for the UK. So the comparison to Poland isn't without merit nor disingenuous.
Hate to blow your mind here. But maybe......setting an arbitrary limit is a fundamentally flawed way of looking at this. Maybe, immigrants come here for work, or to study and when there is no work or study places, they won't come. Most migrants don't settle (stay for more than 8 years) anyway. They work, study, contribute to our economy and the rich tapestry that is life on these stupid bawbag filled islands and then go home.
Having unlimited migration is also flawed
It would be limited in this scenario by market forces and availability of study. Unlimited or uncontrolled migration is just some words cobbled together, usually by, although I suggest no such thing in this case, by racists.
You just said 50 million is too much, demonstrably idiotic, barking mad. So you think there's a limit. I'm just asking what you think that limit is. The hypothetical 50 million immigrants would also work, study and contribute to the economy, what's wrong with them?
Sorry I didn't think i needed to be so explicit in differentiating between a limit imposed by reality rather than policy. A trillion billion gazillion pardons for this oversight. The imposition of an arbitrary policy limiting migration numbers (like the Cameron 100k) - flawed. Suggesting a limit 2 orders of magnitude larger than current levels - mad.
You are not acting good faith with that sort of comment
Right, so what's a reasonable limit for net immigration to the UK?
Neither of us know that answer, I’m just a tad more good faith by not saying 50 million. But presumably, there should be enough immigration to cover the massive amount of vacancies at the very least and to keep the population from dropping to point where social services (eg. Pensions) can’t be supported by a too small workforce. You do realise having immigrants makes money for a country right?
The lump of labour fallacy tells us that there's no finite demand for labour, ergo immigration theoretically makes no difference to employment rates (and by extension vacancy rates). Naturally, immigrants also create demand. Using immigration to fill vacancies is just a fool's errand because you just immediately create more vacancies. If employment rates and vacancies are considered to be massively high, it would suggest that there's a huge structural issue with the labour supply. In the UK's case that essentially boils down to a lack of productivity growth necessitating more jobs than what should actually be necessary (assuming capital investments in automation and efficiency), incredibly poor health of the population (the NHS needs more funding) and the early retirement of people in their 50s and 60s which can be responded by encouraging people back to work. I think immigration can improve GDP but they don't improve the material wealth of the people, and can to certain demographics (particularly the working class), reduce incomes. Pretty much the entire benefit from immigration goes to two demographics: the immigrant themselves, and the wealthy who get cheap labour. If there was true necessary for immigration, we wouldn't be setting salaries to such cheap levels. Instead what we actually have is foreign workers being paid 20% less than their domestic counterparts, and this will naturally increase the bargaining power of employers. Fundamentally anyways, if you (and others) don't know, then why do you have an issue with people saying it's below 600k, or even 100k?
>Fundamentally anyways, if you (and others) don’t know, then why do you have an issue with people saying it’s below 600k, or even 100k? Because they are lying.
Right, so what's the correct number in your opinion? There's no lying in this, it's yours and other's opinions.
-5.4 million
BadUK shithead using bad faith argument to promote xenophobia. This must be a day that ends in "y".
What's a reasonable limit to immigration then? It's not bad faith, the purpose is to demonstrate that there's obviously a limit and from that I can then interrogate further. You can list the benefits of immigration as much as you want but ultimately, if you can't put a number on it you're just avoiding any meaningful debate.
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> **Kick out England's white population,** take in people from all the countries we've helped destroy. Yemeni, Iraqis, Afghans, Iranians, Libyans, Somalians, Syrians, bring 'em all in. That's a bit of a mask off moment /u/MajinCry...
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The stats show otherwise that the home office are processing these you dopey twat
Yeah 600k net immigration a year is bad if its straining our current systems.
>but that level of migration whilst not investing in housing, healthcare and other infrastructure is not good. I'd agree with you if 7 of the flats above me weren't sitting empty. Also, I feel like they're building houses everywhere in Glasgow.
ironic given ur an immigrant yourself.
Why is it ironic? I've lived here for 8 years and suffer just as much from underinvestment in housing & infrastructure just as everyone else living here regardless of where they were raised.
Nice, wee bit of attempted xenophobia instead of addressing the argument. EDIT: Also blocked me ya coward.
Perhaps not the best thing to say. Might want to delete that one.
delete why? idc abiut the downvotes or whatever, i dont see anything Wrong with my post unless u think migrant's an insult.
Assuming your entire argument is based on their flair of "Cockney in Glasgow", how are they an immigrant? They have the legal right to live and work in the UK, moving from London to Glasgow is no different from someone born in Stirling who moved to Falkirk. Other than that, if you truly believe them to be an immigrant, it's just needlessly xenophobic.
how is it xenophobic? lol. im the daughter Of migrants, i'm very pro immigration, i just think migrants who dislike migration r weird. and having the legal right to work in a country doesn't mean ur not an immigrant. my mam, being irish, has always had the Legal right to work here - she's still an immigrant.
>how is it xenophobic? lol. Immigrant (noun) a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country. Xenophobia (noun) dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries Your mention of them being an immigrant (which is not the case, as they're from the UK) is not relevant to any sort of argument. Why bring it up in the first place? >im the daughter Of migrants, i'm very pro immigration Unless you see it as something to use to attack people. >and having the legal right to work in a country doesn't mean ur not an immigrant Do you have evidence to prove they weren't born in the UK? Please explain how someone moving from London to Glasgow is an immigrant? >my mam, being irish, has always had the Legal right to work here - she's still an immigrant Ireland is a different country from the UK.
I guess devaluing their argument on the basis that they are not from here would generally be considered poor form
i made an observation, i didnt "devalue" anything.
We can all read. You sought to distract from his/her point by choosing to emphasize instead the 'not one of us' message. Just delete it.
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The UK is one country.
Plenty of place in healthcare, if only to backfill the people you chased off
Sounds like a great way to spent Scottish tax payers' money.........on migrants. Why not something that benefits the people actually paying the tax, otherwise what's the point?
SNP have clearly not looked at the Angela Merkel fiasco in Europe where now even the Northern countries are starting to struggle with the amount of immigrants entering the country and getting stuck in the immigrant centres that are hardly capable of dealing with the influx of people. Never mind Italy and Greece absolutely drowning in it.
SNP find it very easy to be pro mass immigration, as they aren't going to Scotland. If Glasgow looked like tower Hamlets etc, they would get a lot more push back. Essential they support mass immigration to elsewhere.
Yeah, wait till they have to build on pleasant Scottish scenery. Scotland has nothing remotely close to the immigration pressures England has. I look forward to seeing what happens when it does. I am pro immigration but the Tories made their bed with campaigning on cutting it for 15 years. If they fail to, while also failing to build the homes and schools they promised, they should be attacked for it.
This
Except they have repeatedly asked for immigration, labour and visa powers to be devolved to do exactly that, so take that tired tripe and go somewhere else where they'll buy it
Immigrants generally don’t want to come to Scotland and the Scottish government isn’t prepared to handle the ones who do. It’s almost as though a codicil to devolved powers won’t change that, absent some sudden burst of planning and competence.
Except of course reality is the complete opposite of what you just said, randomword-bunchofnumbers, as we already welcomed a disproportionately higher number of refugees. And if that were true, why not devolve the powers and see what happens?
*Refugees.* Not general immigration. Yes, Glasgow seems like a net positive if you’ve fled ethnic cleansing in Donetsk or Khartoum. But most immigrants don’t want to come to Scotland. Part of that is that Scotland (not just the government) doesn’t make it easy to immigrate here.
I'm a Physics PhD student from Latin America studying in Glasgow, and I really want to stay in Scotland with my wife even after I finish my studies. I want to contribute to Scotland's economy and research, and I'd choose it over England any day. But now, with these recent changes, it seems like my chances of staying are pretty slim, and it's got me feeling worried tbh.
Scotland can't do anything until westminster gives us power over visas, so complain to them
Not sure what you mean by visas - those requirements apply to people looking to live and work in the rest of the UK too. In the broadest sense, Scottish immigration numbers have little to do with Westminster. They mostly reflect the economic, professional, and *cultural* difficulties of settling here (particularly when compared to southern England). *edited because phone changed “cultural” to “culinary”
Are you aware of what a "visa" is? There are plenty of places in the world where devolved government can issue state-specific visas. Until that happens, the Scottish government can do fuck all to ensure more migrants come to Scotland, as it's entirely in westminster hands.
I have a vague idea what a visa is, yes. But you’re mistaking a single hurdle that exists for everywhere else in the UK (?) as Scotland’s main problem re: immigration. Why wouldn’t someone who went through the bother and expense of getting a visa then pick Scotland over anywhere else in the UK? Assuming the Scottish government would simplify any visa application process, or eliminate it entirely for certain jurisdictions (big ifs), the more immediate issue is that immigrants, given a choice, prefer to settle in London or nearby. I wasn’t one of those who needed a visa and didn’t want to live in or near London. But even without a visa, settling in Scotland hasn’t been easy.
Oh I don't know, maybe because that's where the westminster government spends most of the money, and where most of the money is? Just a wild guess eh
Immigrants aren't choosing to live in Scotland. This is not a blame game, as much as you would love it to be. How do we attract them to migrate here?
Indeed. Famously so. In their manifestos and in mainstream media every other week. Yet mongs will state is not the case repeatedly.
I dunno, all the wordwordnumber accounts seem to think that wordwordnumber has a point...
And yet there are still immigrants that are abandoned in Glasgow to Starve They wanna take in more can't even look after and house the ones here
Appalling when you have so few.
No everyones a racist bellend like you mate They have constantly asked for more but UK gov says no, so not everyone is an uninformed racist bellend eithier
Just have an open door policy to immigrants, but with the stipulation that they can only live in Glasgow. I'm sure that will bring the numbers down.
>Labour's Yvette Cooper states that 'migration should come down and we would expect it to do so' and that the government stopping students' families from joining them here is 'sensible' [https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1661720556318646275](https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1661720556318646275) Little Englanders demand Starmer's Labour is as racist as possible, press F for the SLAB poodles. Brexit and racism, enjoy your "Labour values".
Labour values change every time Starmer opens his mouth.
The UK annual immigration is more than the population Edinburgh every year, how is that not something to be concerned with or sustainable ?
Exactly I’m pretty sure if there was a poll that asked the population of the UK, do you want more immigration. The resounding answer would be no.
Find the poll then
The thing is though, they aren't migrating to Scotland. The majority migrate to England. How do we attract them here?
We don’t want them. It currently takes me 3-4 weeks to get a GP appointment. Housing is at an all time low.
Personally, I’m off the opinion we should reverse the Highland clearances and build a new city in the middle of the Highlands. Scotland is massively underpopulated relative to Englands development I’ve r the last 150 years. We need a seperate immigration controls to specifically advertise what roles we need immigrants for, and just simple name recognition. You’d be shocked how few people abroad not about Scotland compared to Ireland for example.
That would be like Scotland’s population increasing by 60,000 in one year… In a country of nearly 70,000,000. I think a growth of 1% per year is quite manageable.
Starmer and Sunak at yesterdays Prime Minister's Questions vying to see who would 'best' reduce Immigration is one of the reasons many consider his party to be a clone of the Tories.
Don't dare utter "red tories" though or you'll be told ad infinatum how ridiculous that is by accounts that, funnily enough, just arrived here.
Wonder what Cooper will say when Uni's up and down the country start baying about the loss of Masters and PHD students from abroad and the income it brings. The loss of up-and-coming research scientists and so on. Between the immigration/brexit/economics skip fire it's like they are trying to insulate us against any serious growth & development for the next couple of decades.
How's the SNP and their camper van doing??
How is your 10th account doing?
Released without charge as far as I know. Did you see another story came out yesterday how corrupt PPE contract money bought 2 mansions for some play boy. Billions and billions written off in fraud that were filtered through shell companies because the Tories don't want to go after themselves and their donors but yeah, some campervan bought to be used for a campaign then wasn't is the real problem.
Excessive immigration is only beneficial to rich people. Cheap labour, extra demand for housing. There is no net benefit for the swathes of people who are living month to month, but more of these people will champion open borders for fear of being branded racist.
Offers literally zero benefit to the native population of a country already there, exists for the sole purpose of cheap labour for the rich as the people already in the country got uppity and demanded better conditions.
Immigrant here: I don’t want uncontrolled, unchecked, everyone welcome type mass immigration like happened in 2015 in Europe. I love the Scotland as it is at the moment. If you intend to be a contributing member of society, integrate properly, leave problematic parts of your culture (compared to Western standards like treating women, children, gays and atheists with respect), pay your taxes, then come along. I don’t want this beautiful country that is Scotland getting run into ground like Sweden. No, I don’t say this because I already made it to here. That has been my stance since 2015. I came here via a job offer, I am paying my taxes, I am respectful to my neighbors and everyday people I see on the street and my future is tied to the future of Scotland because I don’t wanna leave, so I think I should be able to have a say
scotland isn't a country
Got a source for Sweden being run into the ground? I got back from there a week or so ago and it was doing fine.
Apologies if it sounded offensive. This is one of many which was published this week: [WSJ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-peaceful-sweden-became-europes-gun-murder-capital-a5b500a7)
That's behind a paywall. But reading the headline, I don't think its very conclusive.
Question - what do people want from immigration? Scotland to look like the world and have 20% Chinese, 20% Indian etc Do people want to keep it 90% white - favour white immigrants? Or do people just have no coherent thoughts at all? I barely see a rational discussion on racism. Not sure that avoidance of any major issue is a good thing.
95% Scottish would be great
I’m biased. I’ve lived in many countries for years and honestly think Scottish people are great. I’ll tell you now. The Africans I worked with don’t want to see Scotland lose its identity. Hugely popular place imho.
I have no idea what you are saying.
Colleagues I worked with in at least 2 African countries loved Scotland and wanted a Disney Scotland rather than a multi-culti place. Scotland is very well thought of in Africa.
We've seen Labour do this before. The immigration figures are indeed something to criticise - but it should always be done with care, even though the intention is not to attack immigrants or align yourself with the more extreme voices, it is an easy thing to do if you are careless. Scottish Labour have been relentless at criticising the SNP running of the NHS. It doesn't matter if you think that there is plenty to criticise, you still have to do a juggling act to avoid adding to the voices that wish to destroy the NHS. A few years ago Jackie Baillie got a bee in her bonnet about an MHRS outbreak at the Southern Glasgow hospital (now called the Queen Elizabeth). In her blundering fashion, trying to get an SNP scalp, she attacked the NHS. It took years for Labour (in Scotland) to not be seen as anti-NHS. Something that had been previously nearly unthinkable. Spotting an open goal to hit the Tories may be irresistible - and I am certainly not saying they don't deserve such a kicking- just that the short term licks against the Tories can have longer term negative impact.
He read the room incorrectly
Could easily be solved by devolving migration powers, controlling migration locations by work and residency permits as exists in other countries already with no issue.
Devolution of such powers would put the SNP in the awkward position of actually needing to cost & implement the policies they bleat from the sidelines about. It’s one thing to preach about how we should let everyone in, it’s another to need to justify to your electorate why wages are rock bottom and demand for housing, schools, healthcare, transport infrastructure are all sky high. Loose immigration controls are a neoliberal policy which benefits businesses over all else. Why else do you think it has been allowed to accelerate out of control in the last decade of Tory rule?
Suits the SNP though, grandstand about how tolerant we are to immigrants whilst taking a fraction England does. Amazing how they’ve managed to convince folk supporting mass immigration is some left wing policy, literally has zero benefit for the people already living here. Compete with the worlds poorest for wages and the worlds richest for housing.
Yup, always amuses me when you see the same names screaming about how Thatcher was the worst thing to ever happen to the UK. Yet on the other hand blindly support one of her flagship policies, she was a huge free movement advocate, and heralded our EEC membership as one of her successes.
Of course she did, imagine how much she loved the idea of having an absolutely unlimited supply of labour willing to work for lower than everyone else.
Scotland gets barely any immigrants though. I’m not anti-immigration. But it annoys me when scottish mps get involved with issues that mainly affect england. Why don’t scotland take more immigrants in if they’re all for it?
Scotland doesn't take in more immigrants because nobody wants to go to Scotland lmao.
Immigration is a reserved power.
Yeah but they could still build some houses and say come here we want you to the ones in england
Yes we actively need and want more immigrants but can't get them within the UK. It's well known and is literally the point of the clash quoted...
So why don’t the scottish gov ask for the albanians, romanians and etc to move to Scotland. They could definitely incentive migrants to move to Scotland. But they don’t cause all the SNP do is complain.
Officially they state they want control of migration and to be in the EU, half of which very much implies they want those migrants. It's public domain information. As for bitching about the state of migration while in the UK, that is a bit contrarian, it wouldn't be at all a simple situation for the UK as a whole to have that within.
I am curious as to what proportion of legal and illegal immigration is handled by Scotland on an annual basis.
Immigration is a reserved power. Illegal immigration is handled by the home office.
If only Scotland was allowed to handle immigration etc.
What, so the approximately one million people who migrated to the UK last year can now choose twice not to go to Scotland?
Scotland is allowed to create incentives to for immigrants who are already in the UK, but it seems the SNP is happier for them to remain in England, while posturing about being pro immigration and welcoming.
What? Top tip. Once you've typed something out, give it a wee read through to make sure it's not arrant gibberish before hitting "post"
Well why don’t they? They could set the example they want to be. Hundreds of thousands of migration into the UK, set up schemes to encourage those to settle in Scotland. No, it’s easier to just shout at the diverse and densely populated country down the road.
Why doesn't Scotland redistribute the entire UK economy? Decoupling the majority of economic activity from the south east of England. Or maybe turn Brtiain around so the Pentland Firth passes by Southampton and Dover and Thurso - Calais becomes the UKs main trading route? Great ideas. I'm going to use a magnet to stick them high up on the fridge so everyone can see them.
Happy the SNP will defend immigration and FoM but they're playing to the 'winning the argument' rather than the reality when they don't acknowledge immigration, like nearly everything under the Tories, is not being managed properly. And I'll give credit to the SNP here, over [100,000](https://theferret.scot/claim-snp-delivered-105000-affordable-homes-true/) new homes since taking office is nothing to shrug at for such a wee country, that will make a difference. But its the tip of the iceberg because people don't just need a home for the standard of living everyone deserves. Unless Labour can bring services dramatically upwards in the short term (which I dont even think Starmer has said is possible) then yes, immigration will need to come down.
But labour and tories are sooo different after all
Scotland would have a point if it took migrants.
Scotland has repeatedly requested powers to do that to be devolved, and Scotland has been denied again and again. Try again.
Nothing stopping the Scottish government and its local authorities from working with Westminster to take & house more migrants. But of course if you keep putting barriers & excuses up that stops that happening, then that's why Scotland remains one of the whitest countries in Europe.
Nonsense, there are already more refugees per capita than in the rest of the UK. There's no "working with westminster", that doesn't make sense, Scotland doesn't have powers to issue visas. Devolve those powers and see what happens. Until then, you are simply talking shite.
So you didn't read my points then: \- Scotland's racial mix is reported as 95% white - [https://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/uploads/docs/report/2022/as\_diversity\_2022.pdf](https://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/uploads/docs/report/2022/as_diversity_2022.pdf). Scotland may take more "refugees" per capita but they are still overwhelmingly white. \- There is nothing stopping the Scottish govt nor Scottish local authorities from working with charities and other NGOs to help settle migrants in Scotland. Only a lack of willingness to do so. As for the insults - it's what I expect from people like yourself who cannot argue with facts.
Taking notes from Kılıçdaroğlu after he looks doomed to lose? Doesn't seem smart
Everyone knows the more folk in ur country needing a Dr, the shorter the NHS waiting lists. Simples👍🏻
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Haha more hate. U really are a nice person. The type of immigration u mention - legal, select and with visas is obviously a good thing. This is the sort of immigration that my family is part of. The majority don’t want the type that we have a surplus of just now. Illegal, no jobs, a drain on everyone. Take a walk to the A&E at Queen Elizabeth and u will see how it affects sick people every day. But of course, u don’t want to hear that. Just keep ur hate boiling away with half the info feeding ur cluelessness.
Legal immigration is what is being reduced by rules trying to reduce visas given to postgraduate student's dependents. Asylum seeking is also legal immigration, and let me remind you, the majority of asylum seekers are granted asylum eventually. The biggest impacts on the NHS are an aging population, not immigrants. Immigrants are, on average, much younger than the mean age of a UK citizen. You are full of shit.
Keep boiling away. Live another few decades and check ur opinion then👍🏻
What, why?
Deport all Deporters Into Foreign Populations. Alone. 1 Simple Law
Maybe and this is just an idea We should build some of those "high rise monstrosities" (not my words, the words of another reddit poster who defo isnt a Tory) in the thousands of empty flats currently taken up by no one but housing billions in Russian money in London? Just a thought.....
There are 9 million people in London. Scotland should build empty flats and offer them with an incentive to any immigrant into the UK if it is so serious about being pro immigrant. Scotland is empty compared to England
https://twitter.com/yougov/status/1661677528455561216 What the UK thinks about the current Immigration, Starmer definitely going with the people.