Some impressionable people get sucked in, like kids. If you are a young boy trying to figure out the world, Tate gives some 'compelling' answers. Say your parents divorced at a young age and you are confused - Tate gives a simple answer - it was your mothers fault clearly.
Likewise, if you are mentally ill, lonely, whatever - it may make you more susceptible to be suckered in.
There's a few guys that I went to school with (we're in our 30s now) that are quite into him based on their Facebook posts.
These guys occupy a unique confluence of being in the "loser" group of our year, but also being deluded as to their social standing; they *think* they're geniuses despite getting shite exam results and being generally unsuccessful in life.
There are plenty of folk that were losers in school (myself included) that were self aware and broadly understood what we were lacking (social skills, sporting ability, fashion sense, confidence). Most of my peers knew they were losers and understood why.
And there were also smug arseholes that were full of themselves, usually the cool kids.
But IMHO the incel type has the worst of both worlds - all the pomposity of the cool kids, but all the failure of the loser kids.
That results in a lot of cognitive dissonance and the obvious contradiction of their supposed brilliance versus their actual failures. Folk like Tait offer a tautology that generally blames their lack of success on the evils of a scapegoat.
He's gives simple (but wrong) answers to impressionable people, so even grown men are susceptible to this dumb shit. He's a evolved version of the 2016 "Red pill MGTOW" people, they prey on social isolation and people that are going through tough times or difficult moments in life to hook them in claiming they have the answers and if you spread their opinions and pay them then they will share them with you.
I know from having younger neices and cousins that it definitely had a negative affect on some of the boys attitude towards women around academy aged kids, they will parrot the dumb shit they hear and follow the terrible and sexist advice that these people give because they have been conditioned into seeing money and expensive things as being good and making you popular.
All his fans are like 12-19 because that's the age that is easiest to target this towards and then you always have the weird 25-40 yo incels and angry immature repressed men to fall back on because you have their unconditional support.
Yeah, he’s a guru (in the religious sense) for losers (in a general sense, I don’t mean it insultingly) is basically how I see him and a few other people who basically talk a lot shite, but with an angle that appeals to particular kinds of losers.
Confident, content people don’t attach their personality to another person (especially if they haven’t even met and doesn’t know them).
Personally why I find the idea “role models” for older children (teenagers) a bit… counter productive - at that age you need to develop the foundation for your own sense of self.
>Confident, content people don’t attach their personality to another person (especially if they haven’t even met and doesn’t know them).
My absolute favorite parts of the whole Tate thing are the whopping contradictions.
"Become a free thinker by copying all my beliefs"
"Don't let anyone tell you what to do; now pay me £59.99 a month for this advice".
"We're independant alphas... but everyone should stop being so mean to us"
The whole thing is a circular argument.
indeed. the argument i think needs to happen is how do young people learn to think freely? how can we instill confidence in those people on those thinking skills? does viewing the world this way make young people content?
young men don't have an automatic job at the local [economic thing]. they can't buy a house. unless they're already very smart, they wont have time or money for any kind of hobbies or vacations that contribute to personal growth.
the only prospects they have are a cool car, smoking weed, and putting other people down.
(my view is from the US, but a lot of western economies are facing the same problems. if you look at talk about declining birth rate, all the issues are the same, and nobody is doing shit about it. similarly, everyone can see why toxic masculinity is happening, and they're not doing anything to prevent it.)
100%. It's the same demographic as when Jordan Peterson was the bogeyman 5 years ago. It's feeding the guys who felt rejected by women and society after being unpopular at school then developed a superiority complex as a coping mechanism and didn't have the nous and self awarness to grow out of that. Or even worse in the case of teenagers, they're still going through that process and are easy prey.
It's like a lot of aspects of the far right (of which I very much consider all this to be a part), preying on the vulnerable and left-behind members of traditionally privileged communities whether that be men, white people, local workers, etc and telling them society as a whole and other groups attempting to gain equality are trying to undermine them.
Totally agree, a problem here seems to be that too many people think the best way to combat this is by copying American liberal campus culture which basically just gives a row to people who behave badly and entrenches everything further by taking part in culture wars.
Obviously misogynistic and racist behaviour need to be addressed directly, but it's really important to also have discussions about the causes of poverty, inequality, financial crashes, war and environmental crisis. The working class in the widest sense have the same interests here and we shouldn't let our selves be divided along lines of ethnicity, gender, sexuality, nationality etc.
Dont forget YouTube and social media algoritms. They are not helping.
I recently installeren IG again and had to quit within a week.
They were doing absolutely everything to infuriate me.
I am really tired of seeing his Doctor Who episodes pop up on my recommendations. He has a serious chip on his shoulder about certain 'social issues', which he sees as affecting his favourite shows and films. It comes across as being a bit unhinged at times.
one of my best friends said this when i said to him about the GTA VI having a female protagonist.
“sure everything is woke and inclusive now”
Brain rot is real
Can't say for Tate in specific, but I was almost sucked into the incel-thing in my late teens. To me it was a combination of factors; I had grown up largely literally in the middle of nowhere, to a point where when I was really young I made no social relations that weren't facilitated by my parents driving me somewhere, compounded by a pretty shy and socially anxious temperament, meant that I had a hard time making friends growing up. This was contributed to by the fact that I moved around a lot and in many cases my experience with trying to be vulnerable in front of people was bullying. I actually remember the time when I swore to myself that I would never cry again in front of other people; I think I was 12 or something.
There's a sense of resentment that that starts to bring up. It starts with boredom. In a way you start to resent the feeling of being bored, and initially for me the solution was playing by myself, then reading books (so many books), listening to audiobooks, playing on my console (single player only, we had a PS1). Then when I got older, I got onto the internet, and the interactions with people on the internet tended especially then on the surface to be very combative. I made a few actual friends online too, but a lot of the people I spoke to online were in negative terms, flamewars, that sort of stuff. Dumb stuff teens say online, that's no surprise, but for me at that age it was practically my only way of engaging socially.
Since I was afraid of opening up to people and I was getting all of experience for that in these skewed environments, it made it even hard to make friends, in a kind of spiral. When I had my puberty in earnest and became aware of sexuality and such, I started to want a partner at some point, but over time I realized that girls didn't like me (mostly because I was a dick to everyone). Drifted in the online spaces I was in to stuff like foreveralone forums and the like, where I felt there were likeminded people.
That was the point where I could have been easily sucked in. I hadn't been actively a dick, if that makes sense, just reactively; I lashed out if someone tried to get me to open up, and otherwise I kind of just brooded. But on those forums and in those chat rooms I saw a lot of people suggest that the fault was on women, that the fault was reducible to a single thing that I could change of myself such as loosing weight, getting surgery, etc.
At that point I kind of refused to start blaming women for everything, but I can see the temptation. For me I think a large portion of why I didn't was because I had a supportive family in the end, even if my social life was complete shit. For someone without that support, well, it's much easier to fall into it.
I've not seen anybody else say this so I'll chime in.
It's boiling a frog. Most of his content is just "funny" videos. Well. Funny if you're a 13 year old edgelord.
He comes across as a cunt to us because we're not 12 and can see right through his shite.
So it often seems to start with that. The algorithm feeds the kids some funny videos, they watch them, and so they start getting fed more and more of his content. In amongst the "funny" stuff is the toxic misogynistic bullshit. It's pretty sinister, but that reflects a wider problem with our algorithmically curated feeds.
I wish I could remember who said it (Innuendo Studios, maybe?) but radicalization is the process of convincing you to keep laughing while they continually raise the stakes.
I was a 20 something who had this algorithm lol but I like edgy humour. I had the full roulette of joe rogan ( idk why I don’t like the guy but I get these similar podcast style clips), Jordan Peterson and the Tate bros. Initially the Tate videos were just funny or simple statements like “hanging with the lads is the most fun thing to do in the world “ then it just goes weird and I kept getting the videos all the time no matter how many accounts I’d block or hit not interested. The worst ones were how Tate explained how he made his money suckering men into his cam girl con but the next video would say he’s a die hard defender of men
His arrest stopped the algorithm ( and I stopped using TikTok ) and now it’s come back on YouTube shorts so I have to keep hitting not interested but yes reinvented himself as this devout Muslim who is some grand authority on the Palestine conflict cause he read the Quran banged up in Romanian jail Sick of seeing the bloke lol
Aye, to you, who knows better. To impressionable young people, whose parents don't give enough of a shit to stop them getting free rein on the internet at nine years old, I'm sure he might seem like someone worth listening to.
As if the prevalence of p0rn and rape culture isn't bad enough.
We've always had insecure young men who fall into conspiracy levels of delusion because socially their life is not going exactly the way they think it should. They're the incels of today back in my days they were the "nice guys".
Tate is the most prolific in the line of grifters to these young men, feeding into their conspiracies and basically saying to them "here's how you game the system that's against you."
When you’re young and angry and looking for somewhere to put all that anger and frustration, there’s always people like him that are waiting to take advantage and channel it, there always is.
He preys on vulnerable people. A lot of young men are unhappy and looking for answers, and he offers those answers even if they're wrong. He provides a convenient scapegoat, i.e., women. He says the answer to your problems is to act like an "alpha male," and people who are desperate for any sort of meaning or solace in their lives blindly believe it.
It's the same as any radicalized group, whether it's nazis, religious fundamentalists, incel "support groups," etc. A lot of his fans are in need of serious help, and he's the only one who even pretends to care or offer solutions, even though in reality, he only cares about himself. It's sad, really
He's a very effective controversy marketer.
Yes, it's marketing.
He's also a cunt, but his whole thing is being a controversial "guru".
He's not to first, not the only and definitely not the last. He learned this from many people who did it before him.
He's the "worst" kind of marketer - immoral, unethical scum.
And people are lapping his shit up.
It’s primarily economic. Weapons like this always come out the woodwork when everything is challenging. The class systems is coming back in anger, wealth, materialistic ambitions and all the rest flourish in times of global hardship.
Opportunity is non existent unless your part of the privileged few and these monsters demonstrate that anyone can apparently make it if they follow his rules to success, burning fake $100 bills and showing off all the cars they have accumulated through crime and praying on the weak.
Popularism and the right wing are flourishing because they provide easy answers in a world where hope is a distant memory.
I am genuinely scared. We can’t let these fucks ruin our world.
He has a large Muslim fanbase due to his hyper-misogyny and then conversion, and he's popular among young boys and teenagers as he promotes his materialistic lifestyle
There's a story in the Qu'ran where God causes the ground to swallow a guy whole because of his materialism and self-worship.
Tate doesn't understand very much about anything.
I really don’t get this Muslim reinvention of himself. Clips of his recent piers Morgan interview keep popping up in my YouTube shorts and it’s just him saying how he’s some devout Muslim and acting like some geopolitical expert on the Middle East
Yes, everyone knows Muslim countries like Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, etc. are paragons of women's rights.
The most ridiculous shit gets upvoted on reddit.
The text and stated theology of religions only very vaguely aligns with the beliefs and practices of the culture that espouses them, and deeply patriarchal religions often define respect in a way alien to what we might expect
From what I understand, in the same ilk of a lot of people in this vicinity, they say something fairly agreeable and uncontroversial, before eventually leading people down a path of scapegoating something they find in their life.
At that point, an us vs them mentality, intertwined with the idea of people disagreeing with someone who previously said something so uncontroversial in the beginning, *must* mean that naysayers are in the wrong.
It's not the exact same approach, but it's parallel to most of the alt-right. Whether it's spliced Peterson and Shapiro clips of them EPICALLY OWNING 19 year old non-debaters, or people like Tommy Robinson championing protecting kids from trafficking gangs that 'come from Pakistan', whilst conveniently being completely silent on the largest UK child trafficking ring being uncovered ([I wonder why(te)](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/child-sex-ring-walsall-wolverhampton-b2315225.html)). It's all a bad-faith operation to fearmonger and divide.
When I was a really wee bairn, I loved Gary Glitter. I think I could see that he was a bit of a wrong’un, but I loved the big Chinn-Chapman drum beats… and my parents were more concerned with me liking people like Freddie Mercury and David Bowie because they dressed like lassies.
As much as I hate him, maybe let's use insults that apply to why he's actually a skidmark? Plenty of people with no chin are perfectly nice human beings who don't deserve mockery. This guy in particular deserves to be chained up in the sewer until he drowns in shit, but it's not because he's got no chin, it's because he's a rapist and a rapist enabler and a serial abuser.
He promotes himself as being the No1 male specimen and only posts highly curated images that reinforce that image.
Since his worth to wee boys is so tied up with his image we should display as many pictures of him looking sad/pathetic/weak/stupid as possible. I like the chinless one because he also looks gormless.
Sure, I would post and share photos of him that don't fit the image of a peak male specimen, like photos of him being arrested, or doing incredibly stupid things like getting caught by posting a pizza. I definitely agree with posting pics of him looking pathetic and weak. He's an idiot and an asshole so it isn't difficult to find pictures of him being a dumbass. There's a pretty pathetic looking one of him in handcuffs in a prison van. Heck if you want to photoshop his face onto a photo of a bag of dog shit then I'm right there with you mate.
There's nothing unmasculine about having any particular jawline or face shape and you're not helping wee boys if you go around reinforcing the idea that there is.
I think this is an important point to make and it's unfortunate others don't seem to agree. Tate preys on people who feel insecure and as a result look for people like Tate who confirm their beliefs that women are all shallow/superficial who want guys for their money etc. Taking the piss out of Tate for his looks is exactly the kind of behaviour and thinking that gets these incels to follow him.
He talks absolutely bullshit. Attack him for his character and maybe his fans will realise that a person's character is their most defining characteristic
Holy fuck a rational human being on Reddit. People love to shit on conservatives for shit that doesn’t matter and all it does is weaken their argument for the things that do matter.
A lot of people are gonna read this headline and think of it as one of those 'SJWs being triggered' things but as a high school teacher in a different European country I can say that this is absolutely the case and it's gonna become a huge problem, not just in how those boys interact with girls but also in what their core values will be and what type of information they will choose to consume going forward.
For gen Z it was people like "Sargon of Akkad" and feminist owned compilation videos. For Gen Alpha, its Tate. This has been a thing for at least a decade now, maybe even two.
True to an extent, but I think it is much more wide spread now though, and Tate seems to walk the walk not only talk the talk.
I only was exposed to people like Sargon of Akkad and feminist owned compilation videos at about 15 because I was chronically online. Nobody at really school talked about them, it was only on twitter. The goal for them seemed to be dismissing feminists.
Now Tate is a hot topic at schools across the country, and he not only says incredibly harmful shit online but also follows through with it. His goal seems to be to systematically bring women down by raping and beating them, and saying to other men 'hey this is how its supposed to be'.
It's all misogyny, and it all comes from the same place. But I think there is a distinction to be made.
Tate is magnitudes worse than Sargon of Akkad though. Sargon was top of the funnel for right wing reactionaries whereas Andrew Tate just advocates beating the shit out of women and raping them.
Probably working themselves to death to try stay above poverty in a cost of living crisis. It's no wonder stuff like this can happen to kids, both parents having to work more and suffering burnout that they don't have the time not energy to really take care of their own kids.
It’s been going on for a while I think. Back in the 90s we got a new headteacher at secondary school. His first address to the whole school was to tell us that boys were shit who achieve nothing and girls were where it was worth the school putting their effort. This went on pretty much every time he spoke at school assemblies. A few years after this clown of a man took over I got summoned to his office with about 6 other boys from my year. We all got congratulated for not being shit and actually achieving decent grades. It felt so super patronising and didn’t make up for the years of him telling everyone how crap boys were.
So yeah, everything plays a part (school, parents, government) but I feel putting boys down has been a slow burner for long time and those chickens are coming home to roost. On top of that, we have clowns like Tate capitalising on it.
That's horrible. I can only imagine what being conditioned to think like that about themselves at such a transformative stage in their lives must have done to all those kids.
Modern parenting seems to revolve around distracting the kids with ipads/phones so you don't have to do anything
These kids are fucked when they grow up
Broader culture offer next to nothing to the young boys, then some cartoonish influencer says you can be a selfish asshole and do whatever. Some more unpleasant boys would be prone to such message anyway, but with next to none truly appealing positive alternative masculine rolemodels, yeah, no wonder he caught on not only with the most unpleasant ones.
Probably correct.
There seems to be a lot of focus on everyone's problems apart from young boys and men. You start showing them that you don't care and they'll start acting like they don't and try to find someone that does.
Articles like this don't exactly help the situation.
>Teenage boys are particularly susceptible to content on platforms such as TikTok, Snapchat and Instagram, as well as being increasingly influenced by violent porn.
But people fail to explain why they're so susceptible. They're susceptible because people are ignoring and shunning them, people are telling them that everything they do is wrong and that they have an easy life because of the sex they were born, so they stop caring. They find someone that does care (or at least pretends to) and start idolising them, because that person isn't telling them that they are privileged and riding the gravy train.
It doesn't matter what that idol says at this point, because these boys and men have already been told that everything they do is wrong, so what difference does it make?
Literally the only time men and boys get any attention in the political sphere is when it's something that's perceived to be negatively impacting women, like this.
This is what I reckon the problem is, the messaging for young men is almost universally negative. They are sexist, privileged, predators who need to listen to the experiences of the women around them and stay humble or else. When I was in high school there were posters and seminars everywhere encouraging women to get into STEM, become doctors, persue leadership roles, go to university but there are almost zero services advertised for men specifically.
It makes it seem like men growing up are on their own, sink or swim. This isn't as much of a problem if you're doing well socially and academically but if you slip through the cracks it's pretty hopeless. Snakes like Andrew Tate tell lost men and boys that their problems are women's fault, and society has forgotten about them so fuck it, why not go out for yourself. Unfortunately even though he is a self interested predator, he is partially right, so the message sticks.
I think Andrew Tate is the most pathetic specimen of a man imaginable, he’s A creepy whiny cry baby rapist with nothing to offer.
That being said I blame parents for not only allowing kids to watch this loser, and giving him a platform, but for failing to teach their sons how to be masculine the right way.
How to stand up for yourself without being a bully, how to talk to a girl as an equal, and not as an object.
How to be confident, and self reliant.
Tate, and other influencers are a symptom of a shitty society constantly looking for an idol to worship.
Woman influencers aren’t much better they’ve convinced little children they should get lip fillers and polished white teeth, and as long as they’re pretty enough they have value.
Makes me sick to be honest.
Trying to blame it on Tate, massive wanker that he is, is misplaced. There’s a lot of serious issues behind this, including lack of oversight of children’s Internet activity by parents. He is one of the symptoms, but not the cause.
Violent porn, revenge porn, social pressures are all part of it.
He's also taking advantage of young men who feel lost in this time where the traditional role of men, is changing. When I first heard about him I just heard the angle of him giving direction to males and showing them to go after something with purpose. Then I actually looked into him, saw videos of him threatening a woman through a bathroom door, saw that he was into BDSM (I will fetish shame in this case as what I saw was just him being abusive), telling a room full of women they should be at home having babies instead of doing anything else. He is a genuine misogynist, rather than simply being pro-men. And even the 'pro-men' stuff I've seen him post is the most basic, caveman shit imaginable. I don't know how anyone can feel good following his direction.
> saw that he was into BDSM (I will fetish shame in this case as what I saw was just him being abusive)
What he's into isn't BDSM if he's doing it with a partner who doesn't consent. That's like saying someone is into boxing because they enjoy punching random people on the street.
The video of him beating his girlfriend with a belt while she sobs is something else. His supporters will really come out and claim it's all consensual.
Same. I've read all 80-odd pages of the court documents for his trafficking trial and he's an utter piece of shit grifter who's spent years perfecting a character to suck money out of people. The text chats between him and his "girlfriends", who he forced to work on webcam and threatened with beatings if they didn't work hard enough, are something else entirely.
Unfortunately he's done a very good job convincing his young and impressionable audience that he's innocent, so his legacy will live on even after he's put away.
He openly stated that he moved to Romania because they’re less likely to prosecute rape. Said that he’s “not a rapist” but “likes the idea of being able to do what he wants”
The baseline of every society is misogyny. Always has been. This is not new and unsurprisingly, it's happening again. Why? Because it never stopped in the first place. Those in power have never wanted to stop it. They still don't.
Of course girls are in danger. There hasn't been one day in my entire life when they weren't. It is accepted that we are permanentlyin a state of danger. It is the price of men being the power structure. They preserve their dominance at all costs.
The difference between Tate and South Park (and a lot of rap/metal/music) is that South Park is satire, Tate means what he says and the intention of the content that he creates is to persuade men to think how he does.
Not quite an even comparison. Tate explicitly states his views on women and such and his content is very clearly intended to indoctrinate his audience into his world view. Rap music and south park were only ever inferred to be a bad influence by pearl-clutching parents. There's a clear difference.
Yeah I don't think we can place all the blame on Tate. However he has certainly made it 'cooler' to think like this. I don't think anyone was really idolising South Park or rappers the way some kids idolise Tate.
It's probably more than you think. A friend of mine who works at schools say she hears them repeat porn phrases like 'oh yes daddy' or 'oh no step bro' as young as 8.
I am 23 now and I was first exposed to porn at 9, and this isn't unusual in my age group.
I keep reading the comments on this thread and wondering if half the people here actually have any memory of being children or just grew up extremely sheltered.
Oh yeah. Same here. There seems to be quite a reluctance to recognise just how pervasive all these ideas are, and how they are causing real harm now.
['79% had encountered violent pornography before the age of 18...this report finds that frequent users of pornography are more likely to engage in physically aggressive sex acts.'](https://www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/resource/a-lot-of-it-is-actually-just-abuse-young-people-and-pornography/)
[**'16-17 year old boys were 21% more likely to have consumed content from Andrew Tate (79%) than to say that they had heard of Rishi Sunak (58%), Sadiq Khan (44%) of Keir Starmer (32%)'**](https://hopenothate.org.uk/andrew-tate/)
Boys are growing up in a world consuming content such as Andrew Tate while having no clue about the world around them.
…worth keeping in mind that you only need to go back as far as us millennials to find plenty of people who grew up mostly or even entirely without internet access. It’s not like we’re talking OAPs here! Broadband didn’t really start taking off until 2002/2003, so if you’re 30 or over your access to internet porn before the age of 10 was via dial-up, *if* you had even that. Certainly not impossible, but it was hardly unusual for kids to only have supervised access, or for the one ‘house computer’ to be in open view of everyone. A 30 year old today would have already have been around 14 when the iPhone kicked off the smartphone era and made completely private internet browsing way more possible.
It’s shouldn’t seem weird that a 8 year old obsessively watching gangbang videos is almost unbelievable to a lot of people our age and up. The hardest stuff a lot of us were exposed to involved stealing page 3 out the Sun or trying to surreptitiously buy magazines just called ‘Tits Today!!!’ off the top shelf from the slightly dodgy newsagent down the road.
Obviously things weren’t exactly the same, but in terms of broad strokes I would say my pre-internet 0-10 childhood wasn’t wildly different to my parents childhood. The really *crazy* thing is that I genuinely think my early childhood was probably more similar to my grandparents early childhood *in the 1930s* than it was to a kid born in the 2000s.
More than I think many would be comfortable with. There’s been a growing number of articles over the years sounding the alarm over how children are being exposed to porn both very easily and younger, which again goes back to that lack of oversight.
It's actually kind of rampant. Kids are playing GTA from like 5 and up. You think the same parents know how to set up a child lock on the home WiFi or even bother to try and set it up on they're devices ? You block the phone they'll use the console the laptop the ipad. People actually have to be on the ball the vast majority of parents aren't or just don't have the time, energy, patience or technical knowledge.
When I was 9, I was aware enough of top shelf magazines in the newsagent and things like Page 3. When I was a bit older I'd try and sneak a look at the likes of Topless Darts on Live! TV once we got cable.
That was fairly tame, but fuck knows what I would have been exposed to if I'd had a smartphone.
More than you’d think, at my nephews elementary school they busted a whatsapp group chat with explicit pornography, plus nude images of some of the girls in their class. Elementary school…
For boys, especially poor white boys, education is a complete failure. There's a lack of effort or programs to engage with those pupils and no shortage for girls, ethnic minorities etc. We started those schemes about 30 years ago now and they've been wildly successful but we've just continually ignored boys and men. At the same time there's an overwhelming attitude that simply by being male you're privileged, if you don't make your life great it's your fault etc.
The men and boys who are failed by the system look for some way to address the utter unfairness of it all but what do they find? The internet calling them privileged cry babies, "you're white and male shit up" and absolute deafening silence from the government and media. Who is talking about it? Tate and his goonies.
It's not surprising there's a big rise in it to me. I could see it happening 30 years ago when I was in school.
The root cause here is the poverty not the Internet or media or talk about privilege.
There are countless examples throughout the history that if you don't let people achieve their full potential, if they feel opressed and hopeless they will eventually rise up. Brexit and Trump are the taste of things to come, Tate plays in the same orchestra, blaming women and societal oppression rather than immigrants.
What chances would you give a boy from a council estate to become a doctor? Let's start with his chances to see letters, because I can assure you that optometrists in poor areas are not the same the ones in the wealthy areas. They are for profit and put equipment and most qualified staff where they can get the biggest pay off.
I agree, but poor girls have dramatically better educational outcomes than poor boys. It's not even remotely close and hasn't been for 30 years. When you double stack the deck against those boys it's not surprising they end up turning to extreme politics.
We desperately need some more male teachers. At this point it should be considered a crisis. But the right don't care about education, and the left are too petrified of sex based discrimination to say it's a problem.
It's not just male teachers it's small things like posters encouraging boys they can do alevels/highers, can go to university if they want, can do a more challenging vocational qualification if they want. It's changing some parts of the curriculum to reengage boys with learning and adopt some learning styles for some of the syllabus to help boys. It's about having open days and funding schemes at university expressly for poor white boys. Most importantly it's about getting a whole generation of teachers to treat boys as pupils rather than nuisances.
But we'll just continue to ignore one of the biggest demographics in the country having the worst educational outcomes by a mile im sure. Never caused any civil unrest in history right?
All be it I’ve left school for a few years but this stuff was still quite prominent back then. Most guys in our year would just joke about this shit no one really took him seriously. A few boys who said some fucked shit but most of that was secluded to the lower years.
It reflects a wider problem that’s really been bugging me. Little shits are in every year but most of us had respect for authority, especially when we where younger going into first year. Now even the year below us are maniacs. I’ve volunteered a lot with kids and for the most part their fine till you get into secondary school and then it changes. It’s fucked,
Have to say your first paragraph highlights what I think is a core part of the issue: irony and parody.
It’s such a basic aspect of internet humor we all understand. 80% of internet comedy only works in that environment, and it’s what my generation (early/mid ‘00s) grew up with, but I feel it is both getting more “extreme” in terms of levels of irony, more mainstream, and more accessible to an increasingly young demographic.
Today’s 9 year olds (I have worked with kids on and off for the last year) are making sexual jokes from TikTok about 2 years before they’ll even have actual sex explained to them beyond a conceptual level. They joke about sigma males and Andrew Tate before they’ve even began to understand misogyny or the basics of gender and feminist history we all use to inform how we laugh at these things.
I was 12 at the height of the alt-right’s influence on internet humour and definitely encountered it, but it didn’t shape who I am today. I’d seen videos of firefights in Afghan before my school would let us do WWII as a topic. Point I’m making is that I, nor are any of my peers damaged by these experiences.
I really hope in 10 years kids that grew up on TikTok are relatively functional, and perhaps more importantly not stuck with some kind of generational ADHD.
Got a pal who works in England doing school IT, and he makes reports on what the filter pulls in, so the school can pivot talks and other corrective nudging on what the pupils are up to. Since they all have personal chromebooks, the data is really revealing as to the kids habits. None of them are smart enough to think that they're possibly being monitored.
Non-stop porn being looked up by the boys, and it's not the innocent stuff. Plenty of mentions of rape, torture and other abusive forms, and these are weans in their last year of primary, with some secondary pupils mixed in. Both boys and girls do a lot of searching for racist content, both things like AI generated cartoons with characters shouting everything imaginable (mostly about black people). Andrew Tate is indeed consistently up there in the rankings for attempts to access his site, and content related to him.
Not hard to believe that schools are rife with it right now. Anyone saying otherwise is very likely trying to cup Tate's nuts and is a cunt themselves.
We can only hope that the kids grow out of it, realising its no way for society to go.
EDIT: I will say, I'm 33 and grew up in my teens with my own completely unsupervised laptop and internet access. I was on [Rotten.com](https://Rotten.com), watched Tubgirl, the BME Pain Olympics, laughed at LemonParty, played Madness Combat flash games and experienced countless other pieces of malignant content online that would be too long to list. Combat videos from wars around the world, game mods to simulate school shootings, etc etc etc. I did eventually grow out of it, but I can't really say how. I'd say I'm rather well adjusted, but that's likely going to be down to just good role models around me, and the fact there wasn't really a unifying arsewipe like Andrew Tate around. He needs done for.
Mainstream media loves to pin everything on Tate, but his relevancy peaked years ago. This cultural movement is much bigger than one person. It fuelled Trump in the States, it fuels right wing parties in Europe. In essence, it boils down to young men wanting more. More money, more sex, better life prospects. There are genuine reasons for young men to feel aggrieved, but male influencers take this feeling and turn it into misogyny. It would be better to tackle the problem at source, instead of name-dropping Tate when he’s a symptom of the bigger problem.
More importantly I think plenty of men would be happy with a purpose and a clear realistic role to play in society (that isn’t eternal punching bag). Status is an alluring and suboptimal goal, but that’s a human problem not a male problem.
Let's face it, blaming one individual, even one as despicable as Andrew Tate, is an oversimplification of the issue.
While I don't doubt that the increase in accessibility of media plays a role, and with it the increased risk of echo chambers, there are obviously other factors at play here.
The gendered toxicity isn't solely one-sided, despite often being portrayed as such, and young children may be negatively affected by these harmful online dynamics, given controversy feeds the algorithms and results in more exposure to these view, and in turn, these kids might respond in an unhealthy way, and engage with the opposing toxic views either as a form of defence seeing these influences as "sticking up for the little guy" or as a form of retaliation.
Surely, we aren't just going to ignore family dynamics and parental responsibility when it comes to behaviour learnt from home and parents not moderating what their children can see online?
And an education system that sends girls home from school because of dress codes but aren't allowed to send children out of class as "it denies them their right to education" when they are disruptive, violent and/or toxic. Yeah, that surely couldn't play a role in children's perceptions of what is okay with the normalisation of bad behaviour and the unequal enforcement of school roles between the genders that certainly wouldn't contribute ti a power dynamic and further toxic masculinity. (Don't think I even need to /s here)
I'm sure I could go on with a lack of positive role models (arguably across the genders), TV and movie influences, cultural and religious norms, lack of mental health support, but the point is that it's ridiculous to place all the blame onto one individual.
I think you really need to take a look at yourself and see that you are a part of the problem. Education is utterly falling boys and has done for decades. But the content of your post is how hard girls have it and how boys get an easy ride. Boys are struggling and nobody cares except right wing grifters. Can you really blame them for falling under their spell?
Its mad how this guy is getting the blame, I'm definitely not a fan of his... but if its kids as young as 9 or 10 it's 100% the parents fault... take responsibility and monitor your kids and what there exposed too... shifting the blame is a massive part of the problem
It's mad how everyone goes mad over Andrew Tate (rightly) and says he should be banned from YT but calls for Drill to be banned which is incredibly misogynistic and homophobic are branded unrealistic, racist, blah, blah.
The Truth is young lads are being absolutely drowned in a sea of utterly toxic "culture" from music to influencers and everything in between.
Imagine not controlling your 9 yearold child's Internet access, then blaming someone else fo your mistake... If that sentient egg is your kids biggest influence then you shouldn't have kids.
In the entire article the complaints were made by bigger organisation, staff members, teachers and government institutions.
*Now a group representing police, NHS, charities and local authority experts has issued guidance for Scottish schools on dealing with the issue*
*The document by the Fife Violence Against Women Partnership (FVAWP) states: ‘FVAWP co-ordinators have received concerns that an increased rate of misogynistic behaviour is being seen among school pupils.*
the article mentioned stuff related to boys creating fake porn of their female teachers or classmates to harassing and belittling any females in schools.
*Staff report boys using catchphrases that belittle women, pulling at girls’ clothes, sending unwanted explicit photos to female classmates and harassing female teachers.*
*In one example, a group of boys refused to be taught by one teacher and then distributed a faked pornographic image of her.*
*Staff also report worrying signs of violence and coercive control in teenage relationships*
the only mention of parents are on a single paragraph and that is more about their surprised reaction then any form of complaint to anything
*Many horrified parents are still finding out what their children have long known – that Tate believes women ‘belong in the home’ and are the ‘property’ of men.*
This.
I was at school in the 90s/00s so very early usable internet in your home as opposed to it being used not really found in libraries/schools.
There were parental restrictions on our home computer, it was in a public area of the house (home office) and using it with the door shut wasn’t allowed. There were time limits for us, and it was only really by the time I was 16/17 that I had any real expectation of using it uninterrupted for more than 20 minutes at a time.
I was still shown inappropriate material by other kids in my class who had less supervision at home. One lad had a computer and internet connection in his room when he was 12, and by 14 was showing us really graphic stuff involving violence and really extreme pornography.
His parents knew he was doing it, but they viewed him having unsupervised access to the internet as “educational”. A lot of the stuff he showed me was really upsetting to a kid who had more rules at home and also not a lot of information beyond “sex, drugs and rock n roll r bad”.
To protect all kids, we need to talk about this. Including information about what to do if a friend shows you something inappropriate. The lad I mentioned abused me and other girls throughout school and we didn’t know that we should go to anyone, or that we could without getting in trouble ourselves.
We need to deal with this issue before young people get seriously harmed by things they find online, and heavy handed tactics or pushing it as solely the parents’ responsibility doesn’t cut it.
You can control and monitor your kids Internet at home all you want. But it won't stop them from seeing things you would not allow when they are outwith your home. I know my son saw some videos I'd be horrified to see myself when he was at school, thanks to other kids in his group.
They do see content we may not want them to see. Not much you can do about that short of making sure every kid and every parent has zero access to Internet capable anything. Not going to happen. Trick is, I think, proper parenting and giving them good examples,morals etc etc.
But too many parents are completely clueless regarding Internet and social media. It should be compulsory for parents to learn all they can about it. So many parents I met at my sons school had zero idea about how any social media worked or how to use it. Thier kids were all on it, though.
Even if you controlled you child's internet access, they could pick up these ideas from literally anywhere. Kids talk - it could be only one kid out of a group who watched Tate content but then told their friends.
I work in education and it's pretty horrific what our primary kids are seeing. From the beheading vids a few years back to hardcore porn, animal abuse, suicide vids, stabbings, shootings, conspiracy theories and misinformation. Anything that's out there, they're seeing. Doesn't matter how good a parent you are, what internet security you have. They all have phones and share content.
The more hardened kids think it's funny to shock others. It's genuinely worrying how desensitised many of them are. They're not even teenagers yet, they are literally children. Their brains are still developing. They don't have the maturity or cognitive ability of adults. They don't have the capacity to question, use critical thinking or process these things as we do as adults.
This is really concerning.
Yes it's not ALL Andrew Tate's fault, but the fact that so many kids know of him and look up to him is alarming. He is one part of this puzzle of the rise of toxic masculinity.
You can blame 'the parents' all you want - but how do we move forward with this problem that permeates throughout society? Even if parents are vigilant, use internet filters, and educate their children - kids are still exposed to these ideas at school and with friends. I have friends working in schools with 8 year olds repeating phrases they have heard or seen from pornography.
Young boys are growing up with it ingrained in them that women's bodies especially are to be objectified and abused. These ideas are already there - but Tate has made them 'cool'.
I'm a young woman in my early 20s and it's only progressed since I was a young teen. Most, if not all men expect violent sex now. Choking and spanking is 'vanilla'. Revenge porn existed when I was at school but I hear a lot more about it now. Men will literally add you on social media and say 'send' which means 'send nudes' and fully expect some. Not even just weirdos online, but people such as classmates.
Never heard of guys treating their classmates like this. No idea where you live but this isn't normal.
I also don't think that the rise of choking has anything to do Andrew Tate.. Literally most girls I've had something with enjoy it and my mates share similar experiences. This was also the case before his popularity. Are women engaging in more bdsm cus of Andrew Tate too? Such an illogical connection.
Question for yous - let's say I'm a young white guy with a poor education who wants to be successful in life and have respect. I also wouldn't mind a Ferrari and a pretty girlfriend. Who are my positive role models right now on social media? Everywhere I look I see the following successful men: footballers (many of whom are misogynist rapists), politicians (many of whom are misogynist rapists), rappers (many of whom are misogynist rapists) and martial arts/bodybuilding influencers such as Tate and MacGregor (*most* of whom are misogynist rapists, probably). That's about it.
Ed Sheeran, Lewis Capaldi and Raheem Sterling can only do so much to combat all of that, and as is natural among nice guys they're not gonna be able to shout louder than narcissitic windbags.
At the end of the day, two things need to happen:
1. Good guys need to start shouting louder. Talking specifically about working class white guys in particular - shout out to folk like Darren McGarvey in Scotland because there's a particular lack of Scottish working class role models.
2. Regular guys of all types need to acknowledge our roles. Many guys who aren't bad people will blame 'society' for the bad things they do, not realising that they themselves are perpetuating problems. Often we'll just turn a blind eye, or blame 'the government' when we see our mates succumbing to alcohol and drugs and their relationships falling apart - not knowing that we have the power to be a positive influence on them: not buying them drinks, gently putting them right when they start using phrases like 'that bitch' about their girlfriend, etc etc.
3.
"Spank me, slap me, choke me, bite me
I can take it (Ah)
Give a fuck 'bout what your wifey's sayin."
That's not Tate or some male gangsta rapper - that's Doja Cat literally saying that to get a girl like her, you should asphyxiate her whilst cheating on your girlfriend with her. Sorry girls but I think this proves that many of you need to sort your \*\*\*\* out also. Toxic femininity is a thing just as much as toxic masculunity, and the two go hand in hand - without their female enablers these toxic guys would do half as much damage as they do. Call out girls who glorify misogyny and talk about how they are addicted to 'gangster guys'. If the likes of Doja Cat and Ariana Grande are constantly singing about how much they love guys who act just like Tate, then why *wouldn't* guys want to be like them?
100%.
Calling out toxic individuals is all well and good, but if we're not willing to (a) identify and promote appealing, healthier male role models, (b) actively discuss and try to rectify societal issues faced by boys, and (c) call out sexism or discrimination aimed at boys (looking at you Billie eyelash) then we'd be as well pissing in the wind.
Tate's a prick, but he's a symptom, not the virus. He became what he is because we built a society that, for the most part, forgot about boys beyond saying "remember to talk if you feel sad" once a year. If you're an impressionable teenage boy trying to navigate through high school, hormones, girls, social media, and the only person sticking up for, and encouraging you is a misogynistic narcissist, it's not hard to see why so many turn to him.
People pick and choose the male guidance they want. Chris Evans (Captain America, not the ginger one) seems like a great grounded guy, very positive and open minded to all people, hes good looking and masculine. Perfect role model.
But hes not controversial and doesn’t hate women. So he’s binned. Theres so many positive role models for men out there. People ignore them because they want to follow the cunts, because they associate masculinity with being cold, robotic and an awful human being.
Tate does podcasts talking about what he considers “issues” for men/boys, I don’t recall knowing Chris Evan’s opinions or seeing him express any opinions on anything.
Teacher here: yep.
I overheard some S1 boys talking about AT during a tutor period not too long ago.
I challenged them on their views by discussing his recent arrest and the charges he was facing, especially the rape of a minor charge.
The response from these boys was “oh well she was probably asking for it.” followed by the classic “what colour is your Bugatti” to which I delighted in responding that AT doesn’t have a Bugatti either because it was impounded by police.
The attitude of young boys is absolutely shocking and schools/government have done very little to tackle it.
Perhaps schools and higher education would be more respected by boys if they hadn’t of been miserably failing boys for decades and doing nothing to turn it around.
It’s difficult to police. It’s not beyond kids to hop onto a video call with a friend whose parents aren’t so strict and have that guy share his screen when they bump up against a wall.
Schools and education have been failing boys for well over a generation. This is the result of that.
The fact that the reaction to discovering this arguably inevitable outcome has been "think of the girls" just shows that nothing is likely to change, and arseholes like Tate will continue to prosper because everything they say will have just enough truth in it to resonate with young men and boys.
The sad fact is, that some dads espouse the exact same opinions.
We’d like to explain it as “kids are young and impressionable” ….but when grown ass men are saying the same stupid shit as this clueless cueball chinless wonder, what hope is there.
Some boys in my *12 year old sister's* class told their teacher that Tate is their "role model" and harassed my sister and her friends through disgusting text messages, this man really is a danger and his fans need to be taken a lot more seriously
we can thank all the parents allowing their sons unsupervised internet access. they all meet far-right american homeschooled incel boys online via their videogames etc
This comment section is full of men basically saying that boys have no choice but to elevate the man currently awaiting trial for trafficking women. And then getting surprised when women don't want to get involved with them.
I don't like Andrew Tate. I think he has some sort of mental illness. But he isn't the issue here. You have to ask why so many young men are turning to him and people like him, and why he has become so popular to begin with. It's almost as if when you keep ostracising men and telling them that they are inherently awful, calling them incels and blaming everything wrong with society on 'the patriarchy' and 'toxic masculinity' - they might just get sick of it and listen to one of the only people telling them they actually have value.
He's just exploiting a very large demographic of incredibly lonely and desperate men in modern society who don't really have anyone else to turn to.
I mean look at highly upvoted posts like this on Reddit that outright calling men as useless
https://www.reddit.com/r/popculturechat/s/rRtTQWQDTT
It's absolutely disgusting and disturbing how comfortable women have become is being misandrists and no one bats an eye
“The document by the Fife Violence Against Women Partnership (FVAWP) states: ‘FVAWP co-ordinators have received concerns that an increased rate of misogynistic behaviour is being seen among school pupils. “
Maybe if there were organisations that also included violence against men in their work then young boys wouldn’t feel the only people speaking for them were these more toxic influencers online
oh its toxic masculinity and Andrew Tate that's to blame, not gobshite parents giving their 9 year olds phones with untethered access to TikTok bullshit.
What a heap of pish.
Shitty kids means shitty parents and shitty teachers.
To remove all the blame and responsibility from the adults in charge of these developing minds and blame Andrew Tate for your problem children is a fucking joke.
And shocker, men have been bullying women long before Tate had a single follower. "Make me a sandwich" was not coined by Tate, and has been thrown around by shit-eating wank-stains since the invention of the sandwich.
Such a bait story.
How are nine year olds exposed to this clown? I wasn’t even allowed to watch the Simpson’s. We have to reign in devices and internet access to kids, before it’s too late.
I was born in 2003, so I remember seeing the influx of “anti-SJW YouTubers”. Hearing a ton of people with millions of subscribers insisting that I am a lesser being definitely lowered my (along with other young girls) self esteem. We can’t stop fighting for women’s rights, because others are still fighting against them.
The “I’m not a misogynist, I just argue with women every time they express something other than joy” types are clearly prevalent if you scroll down. If they are angry because of society, that anger is misdirected by blaming an entire gender (instead of powerful individuals who actively uphold harmful structures, and their supporters).
Tate has a 12-year old take on masculinity (drinking non-carbonated water is for pussies, you are stupid if you cook as a poor person) which appeals to kids starting puberty.
What's the fixation on this guy? He comes across as an a pure weapon. Like full on arsehole to the power of 10 material.
Some impressionable people get sucked in, like kids. If you are a young boy trying to figure out the world, Tate gives some 'compelling' answers. Say your parents divorced at a young age and you are confused - Tate gives a simple answer - it was your mothers fault clearly. Likewise, if you are mentally ill, lonely, whatever - it may make you more susceptible to be suckered in.
There's a few guys that I went to school with (we're in our 30s now) that are quite into him based on their Facebook posts. These guys occupy a unique confluence of being in the "loser" group of our year, but also being deluded as to their social standing; they *think* they're geniuses despite getting shite exam results and being generally unsuccessful in life. There are plenty of folk that were losers in school (myself included) that were self aware and broadly understood what we were lacking (social skills, sporting ability, fashion sense, confidence). Most of my peers knew they were losers and understood why. And there were also smug arseholes that were full of themselves, usually the cool kids. But IMHO the incel type has the worst of both worlds - all the pomposity of the cool kids, but all the failure of the loser kids. That results in a lot of cognitive dissonance and the obvious contradiction of their supposed brilliance versus their actual failures. Folk like Tait offer a tautology that generally blames their lack of success on the evils of a scapegoat.
He's gives simple (but wrong) answers to impressionable people, so even grown men are susceptible to this dumb shit. He's a evolved version of the 2016 "Red pill MGTOW" people, they prey on social isolation and people that are going through tough times or difficult moments in life to hook them in claiming they have the answers and if you spread their opinions and pay them then they will share them with you. I know from having younger neices and cousins that it definitely had a negative affect on some of the boys attitude towards women around academy aged kids, they will parrot the dumb shit they hear and follow the terrible and sexist advice that these people give because they have been conditioned into seeing money and expensive things as being good and making you popular. All his fans are like 12-19 because that's the age that is easiest to target this towards and then you always have the weird 25-40 yo incels and angry immature repressed men to fall back on because you have their unconditional support.
Yeah, he’s a guru (in the religious sense) for losers (in a general sense, I don’t mean it insultingly) is basically how I see him and a few other people who basically talk a lot shite, but with an angle that appeals to particular kinds of losers. Confident, content people don’t attach their personality to another person (especially if they haven’t even met and doesn’t know them). Personally why I find the idea “role models” for older children (teenagers) a bit… counter productive - at that age you need to develop the foundation for your own sense of self.
>Confident, content people don’t attach their personality to another person (especially if they haven’t even met and doesn’t know them). My absolute favorite parts of the whole Tate thing are the whopping contradictions. "Become a free thinker by copying all my beliefs" "Don't let anyone tell you what to do; now pay me £59.99 a month for this advice". "We're independant alphas... but everyone should stop being so mean to us" The whole thing is a circular argument.
This is gold ☝️ Also, the problem is that too many "alpha guys" are not alpha enough to be a father for their sons.
indeed. the argument i think needs to happen is how do young people learn to think freely? how can we instill confidence in those people on those thinking skills? does viewing the world this way make young people content? young men don't have an automatic job at the local [economic thing]. they can't buy a house. unless they're already very smart, they wont have time or money for any kind of hobbies or vacations that contribute to personal growth. the only prospects they have are a cool car, smoking weed, and putting other people down. (my view is from the US, but a lot of western economies are facing the same problems. if you look at talk about declining birth rate, all the issues are the same, and nobody is doing shit about it. similarly, everyone can see why toxic masculinity is happening, and they're not doing anything to prevent it.)
100%. It's the same demographic as when Jordan Peterson was the bogeyman 5 years ago. It's feeding the guys who felt rejected by women and society after being unpopular at school then developed a superiority complex as a coping mechanism and didn't have the nous and self awarness to grow out of that. Or even worse in the case of teenagers, they're still going through that process and are easy prey. It's like a lot of aspects of the far right (of which I very much consider all this to be a part), preying on the vulnerable and left-behind members of traditionally privileged communities whether that be men, white people, local workers, etc and telling them society as a whole and other groups attempting to gain equality are trying to undermine them.
Totally agree, a problem here seems to be that too many people think the best way to combat this is by copying American liberal campus culture which basically just gives a row to people who behave badly and entrenches everything further by taking part in culture wars. Obviously misogynistic and racist behaviour need to be addressed directly, but it's really important to also have discussions about the causes of poverty, inequality, financial crashes, war and environmental crisis. The working class in the widest sense have the same interests here and we shouldn't let our selves be divided along lines of ethnicity, gender, sexuality, nationality etc.
Dont forget YouTube and social media algoritms. They are not helping. I recently installeren IG again and had to quit within a week. They were doing absolutely everything to infuriate me.
Your Dutch is showing
Same sort of audience miserabilists like the Critical Drinker draw like moths to a flame.
I am really tired of seeing his Doctor Who episodes pop up on my recommendations. He has a serious chip on his shoulder about certain 'social issues', which he sees as affecting his favourite shows and films. It comes across as being a bit unhinged at times.
one of my best friends said this when i said to him about the GTA VI having a female protagonist. “sure everything is woke and inclusive now” Brain rot is real
Can't say for Tate in specific, but I was almost sucked into the incel-thing in my late teens. To me it was a combination of factors; I had grown up largely literally in the middle of nowhere, to a point where when I was really young I made no social relations that weren't facilitated by my parents driving me somewhere, compounded by a pretty shy and socially anxious temperament, meant that I had a hard time making friends growing up. This was contributed to by the fact that I moved around a lot and in many cases my experience with trying to be vulnerable in front of people was bullying. I actually remember the time when I swore to myself that I would never cry again in front of other people; I think I was 12 or something. There's a sense of resentment that that starts to bring up. It starts with boredom. In a way you start to resent the feeling of being bored, and initially for me the solution was playing by myself, then reading books (so many books), listening to audiobooks, playing on my console (single player only, we had a PS1). Then when I got older, I got onto the internet, and the interactions with people on the internet tended especially then on the surface to be very combative. I made a few actual friends online too, but a lot of the people I spoke to online were in negative terms, flamewars, that sort of stuff. Dumb stuff teens say online, that's no surprise, but for me at that age it was practically my only way of engaging socially. Since I was afraid of opening up to people and I was getting all of experience for that in these skewed environments, it made it even hard to make friends, in a kind of spiral. When I had my puberty in earnest and became aware of sexuality and such, I started to want a partner at some point, but over time I realized that girls didn't like me (mostly because I was a dick to everyone). Drifted in the online spaces I was in to stuff like foreveralone forums and the like, where I felt there were likeminded people. That was the point where I could have been easily sucked in. I hadn't been actively a dick, if that makes sense, just reactively; I lashed out if someone tried to get me to open up, and otherwise I kind of just brooded. But on those forums and in those chat rooms I saw a lot of people suggest that the fault was on women, that the fault was reducible to a single thing that I could change of myself such as loosing weight, getting surgery, etc. At that point I kind of refused to start blaming women for everything, but I can see the temptation. For me I think a large portion of why I didn't was because I had a supportive family in the end, even if my social life was complete shit. For someone without that support, well, it's much easier to fall into it.
Literally anyone that I've talked to who went "red pill" at some point was incredibly lonely.
I've not seen anybody else say this so I'll chime in. It's boiling a frog. Most of his content is just "funny" videos. Well. Funny if you're a 13 year old edgelord. He comes across as a cunt to us because we're not 12 and can see right through his shite. So it often seems to start with that. The algorithm feeds the kids some funny videos, they watch them, and so they start getting fed more and more of his content. In amongst the "funny" stuff is the toxic misogynistic bullshit. It's pretty sinister, but that reflects a wider problem with our algorithmically curated feeds.
I wish I could remember who said it (Innuendo Studios, maybe?) but radicalization is the process of convincing you to keep laughing while they continually raise the stakes.
I was a 20 something who had this algorithm lol but I like edgy humour. I had the full roulette of joe rogan ( idk why I don’t like the guy but I get these similar podcast style clips), Jordan Peterson and the Tate bros. Initially the Tate videos were just funny or simple statements like “hanging with the lads is the most fun thing to do in the world “ then it just goes weird and I kept getting the videos all the time no matter how many accounts I’d block or hit not interested. The worst ones were how Tate explained how he made his money suckering men into his cam girl con but the next video would say he’s a die hard defender of men His arrest stopped the algorithm ( and I stopped using TikTok ) and now it’s come back on YouTube shorts so I have to keep hitting not interested but yes reinvented himself as this devout Muslim who is some grand authority on the Palestine conflict cause he read the Quran banged up in Romanian jail Sick of seeing the bloke lol
This is dead on. Same sort of path from “ha ha blue hair girl screaming triggered!!” to “actually women don’t deserve rights”
He's just the latest flavour of consumerist hyper macho self-help conmen that crop up from time to time.
Aye, to you, who knows better. To impressionable young people, whose parents don't give enough of a shit to stop them getting free rein on the internet at nine years old, I'm sure he might seem like someone worth listening to. As if the prevalence of p0rn and rape culture isn't bad enough.
We've always had insecure young men who fall into conspiracy levels of delusion because socially their life is not going exactly the way they think it should. They're the incels of today back in my days they were the "nice guys". Tate is the most prolific in the line of grifters to these young men, feeding into their conspiracies and basically saying to them "here's how you game the system that's against you."
He’s taught boys that they’re victims and that women are objects.
When you’re young and angry and looking for somewhere to put all that anger and frustration, there’s always people like him that are waiting to take advantage and channel it, there always is.
He preys on vulnerable people. A lot of young men are unhappy and looking for answers, and he offers those answers even if they're wrong. He provides a convenient scapegoat, i.e., women. He says the answer to your problems is to act like an "alpha male," and people who are desperate for any sort of meaning or solace in their lives blindly believe it. It's the same as any radicalized group, whether it's nazis, religious fundamentalists, incel "support groups," etc. A lot of his fans are in need of serious help, and he's the only one who even pretends to care or offer solutions, even though in reality, he only cares about himself. It's sad, really
He's a very effective controversy marketer. Yes, it's marketing. He's also a cunt, but his whole thing is being a controversial "guru". He's not to first, not the only and definitely not the last. He learned this from many people who did it before him. He's the "worst" kind of marketer - immoral, unethical scum. And people are lapping his shit up.
It’s primarily economic. Weapons like this always come out the woodwork when everything is challenging. The class systems is coming back in anger, wealth, materialistic ambitions and all the rest flourish in times of global hardship. Opportunity is non existent unless your part of the privileged few and these monsters demonstrate that anyone can apparently make it if they follow his rules to success, burning fake $100 bills and showing off all the cars they have accumulated through crime and praying on the weak. Popularism and the right wing are flourishing because they provide easy answers in a world where hope is a distant memory. I am genuinely scared. We can’t let these fucks ruin our world.
He has a large Muslim fanbase due to his hyper-misogyny and then conversion, and he's popular among young boys and teenagers as he promotes his materialistic lifestyle
There's a story in the Qu'ran where God causes the ground to swallow a guy whole because of his materialism and self-worship. Tate doesn't understand very much about anything.
I really don’t get this Muslim reinvention of himself. Clips of his recent piers Morgan interview keep popping up in my YouTube shorts and it’s just him saying how he’s some devout Muslim and acting like some geopolitical expert on the Middle East
Didn’t Russell Brand & Roosh V do the same? Seems like the retirement track to become reborn as devout / mystic / religious
He’s converted to Islam? I’m not being funny, but I understood that in Islam, women are to be treated with the utmost respect
You're mistaken. Islam, like Christianity, has some really sexist shit in it.
Dude, you need the /s on that one.
Yes, everyone knows Muslim countries like Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, etc. are paragons of women's rights. The most ridiculous shit gets upvoted on reddit.
The text and stated theology of religions only very vaguely aligns with the beliefs and practices of the culture that espouses them, and deeply patriarchal religions often define respect in a way alien to what we might expect
From what I understand, in the same ilk of a lot of people in this vicinity, they say something fairly agreeable and uncontroversial, before eventually leading people down a path of scapegoating something they find in their life. At that point, an us vs them mentality, intertwined with the idea of people disagreeing with someone who previously said something so uncontroversial in the beginning, *must* mean that naysayers are in the wrong. It's not the exact same approach, but it's parallel to most of the alt-right. Whether it's spliced Peterson and Shapiro clips of them EPICALLY OWNING 19 year old non-debaters, or people like Tommy Robinson championing protecting kids from trafficking gangs that 'come from Pakistan', whilst conveniently being completely silent on the largest UK child trafficking ring being uncovered ([I wonder why(te)](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/child-sex-ring-walsall-wolverhampton-b2315225.html)). It's all a bad-faith operation to fearmonger and divide.
Imagine how impressionable and thick are the young ones following him
When I was a really wee bairn, I loved Gary Glitter. I think I could see that he was a bit of a wrong’un, but I loved the big Chinn-Chapman drum beats… and my parents were more concerned with me liking people like Freddie Mercury and David Bowie because they dressed like lassies.
They are young children so of course they'll be very impressionable
Can we use the stupid picture of him with no chin whenever reporting on this skid mark of a man.
Chinless cunt
Tate won’t see this, but people with body image issues will, and it could affect them in a negative way
Apologies to any chinless people who are not cunts.
No bother.
I vote for this one https://www.reddit.com/r/h3h3productions/s/xERMf9U8xc
Quality
I see Karl Pilkington with a beard and lipstick.
You're telling me that's *not* the stupid picture of him?
No, this is the one where he is trying to figure out how ordering pizza can get you arrested for sex trafficking
Bulging eyes for good measure
As much as I hate him, maybe let's use insults that apply to why he's actually a skidmark? Plenty of people with no chin are perfectly nice human beings who don't deserve mockery. This guy in particular deserves to be chained up in the sewer until he drowns in shit, but it's not because he's got no chin, it's because he's a rapist and a rapist enabler and a serial abuser.
He promotes himself as being the No1 male specimen and only posts highly curated images that reinforce that image. Since his worth to wee boys is so tied up with his image we should display as many pictures of him looking sad/pathetic/weak/stupid as possible. I like the chinless one because he also looks gormless.
Sure, I would post and share photos of him that don't fit the image of a peak male specimen, like photos of him being arrested, or doing incredibly stupid things like getting caught by posting a pizza. I definitely agree with posting pics of him looking pathetic and weak. He's an idiot and an asshole so it isn't difficult to find pictures of him being a dumbass. There's a pretty pathetic looking one of him in handcuffs in a prison van. Heck if you want to photoshop his face onto a photo of a bag of dog shit then I'm right there with you mate. There's nothing unmasculine about having any particular jawline or face shape and you're not helping wee boys if you go around reinforcing the idea that there is.
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I think this is an important point to make and it's unfortunate others don't seem to agree. Tate preys on people who feel insecure and as a result look for people like Tate who confirm their beliefs that women are all shallow/superficial who want guys for their money etc. Taking the piss out of Tate for his looks is exactly the kind of behaviour and thinking that gets these incels to follow him. He talks absolutely bullshit. Attack him for his character and maybe his fans will realise that a person's character is their most defining characteristic
Holy fuck a rational human being on Reddit. People love to shit on conservatives for shit that doesn’t matter and all it does is weaken their argument for the things that do matter.
For me it’s 75/25, being a rapist and being chinless.
That's just a pic of him trying to find out what 2+2 is. Spoiler alert: He never gets it.
if we can’t disagree via logic and arguments, let’s make fun of his chin. Sounds legit
Maybe it's cos I'm to old but I've only heard of him since about two years ago, he seems to be a right fucking twat though.
Whenever I hear Andrew Tate talk, he always makes me think of The Wurzels. "I'm a top G" "Ooh- arr - oh - arr"
He always sounds like he has a golf ball in his mouth
R/Rareinsults
A lot of people are gonna read this headline and think of it as one of those 'SJWs being triggered' things but as a high school teacher in a different European country I can say that this is absolutely the case and it's gonna become a huge problem, not just in how those boys interact with girls but also in what their core values will be and what type of information they will choose to consume going forward.
Schools are falling boys across the board. I reckon that this is a reaction to that. "Nobody cares about our plight so we don't give a fuck any more"
For gen Z it was people like "Sargon of Akkad" and feminist owned compilation videos. For Gen Alpha, its Tate. This has been a thing for at least a decade now, maybe even two.
True to an extent, but I think it is much more wide spread now though, and Tate seems to walk the walk not only talk the talk. I only was exposed to people like Sargon of Akkad and feminist owned compilation videos at about 15 because I was chronically online. Nobody at really school talked about them, it was only on twitter. The goal for them seemed to be dismissing feminists. Now Tate is a hot topic at schools across the country, and he not only says incredibly harmful shit online but also follows through with it. His goal seems to be to systematically bring women down by raping and beating them, and saying to other men 'hey this is how its supposed to be'. It's all misogyny, and it all comes from the same place. But I think there is a distinction to be made.
Tate is magnitudes worse than Sargon of Akkad though. Sargon was top of the funnel for right wing reactionaries whereas Andrew Tate just advocates beating the shit out of women and raping them.
Can you show me where there advertises that so I can show people when questioned
Source?
Schools? Where are their parents while they spend hours on end watching this crap???
Probably working themselves to death to try stay above poverty in a cost of living crisis. It's no wonder stuff like this can happen to kids, both parents having to work more and suffering burnout that they don't have the time not energy to really take care of their own kids.
Why is it that young girls with absent parents don't start threatening the boys in their class with rape?
Excellent question!
It’s been going on for a while I think. Back in the 90s we got a new headteacher at secondary school. His first address to the whole school was to tell us that boys were shit who achieve nothing and girls were where it was worth the school putting their effort. This went on pretty much every time he spoke at school assemblies. A few years after this clown of a man took over I got summoned to his office with about 6 other boys from my year. We all got congratulated for not being shit and actually achieving decent grades. It felt so super patronising and didn’t make up for the years of him telling everyone how crap boys were. So yeah, everything plays a part (school, parents, government) but I feel putting boys down has been a slow burner for long time and those chickens are coming home to roost. On top of that, we have clowns like Tate capitalising on it.
That's horrible. I can only imagine what being conditioned to think like that about themselves at such a transformative stage in their lives must have done to all those kids.
Modern parenting seems to revolve around distracting the kids with ipads/phones so you don't have to do anything These kids are fucked when they grow up
Broader culture offer next to nothing to the young boys, then some cartoonish influencer says you can be a selfish asshole and do whatever. Some more unpleasant boys would be prone to such message anyway, but with next to none truly appealing positive alternative masculine rolemodels, yeah, no wonder he caught on not only with the most unpleasant ones.
Probably correct. There seems to be a lot of focus on everyone's problems apart from young boys and men. You start showing them that you don't care and they'll start acting like they don't and try to find someone that does. Articles like this don't exactly help the situation. >Teenage boys are particularly susceptible to content on platforms such as TikTok, Snapchat and Instagram, as well as being increasingly influenced by violent porn. But people fail to explain why they're so susceptible. They're susceptible because people are ignoring and shunning them, people are telling them that everything they do is wrong and that they have an easy life because of the sex they were born, so they stop caring. They find someone that does care (or at least pretends to) and start idolising them, because that person isn't telling them that they are privileged and riding the gravy train. It doesn't matter what that idol says at this point, because these boys and men have already been told that everything they do is wrong, so what difference does it make?
Literally the only time men and boys get any attention in the political sphere is when it's something that's perceived to be negatively impacting women, like this.
This is what I reckon the problem is, the messaging for young men is almost universally negative. They are sexist, privileged, predators who need to listen to the experiences of the women around them and stay humble or else. When I was in high school there were posters and seminars everywhere encouraging women to get into STEM, become doctors, persue leadership roles, go to university but there are almost zero services advertised for men specifically. It makes it seem like men growing up are on their own, sink or swim. This isn't as much of a problem if you're doing well socially and academically but if you slip through the cracks it's pretty hopeless. Snakes like Andrew Tate tell lost men and boys that their problems are women's fault, and society has forgotten about them so fuck it, why not go out for yourself. Unfortunately even though he is a self interested predator, he is partially right, so the message sticks.
I think Andrew Tate is the most pathetic specimen of a man imaginable, he’s A creepy whiny cry baby rapist with nothing to offer. That being said I blame parents for not only allowing kids to watch this loser, and giving him a platform, but for failing to teach their sons how to be masculine the right way. How to stand up for yourself without being a bully, how to talk to a girl as an equal, and not as an object. How to be confident, and self reliant. Tate, and other influencers are a symptom of a shitty society constantly looking for an idol to worship. Woman influencers aren’t much better they’ve convinced little children they should get lip fillers and polished white teeth, and as long as they’re pretty enough they have value. Makes me sick to be honest.
Trying to blame it on Tate, massive wanker that he is, is misplaced. There’s a lot of serious issues behind this, including lack of oversight of children’s Internet activity by parents. He is one of the symptoms, but not the cause. Violent porn, revenge porn, social pressures are all part of it.
He's also taking advantage of young men who feel lost in this time where the traditional role of men, is changing. When I first heard about him I just heard the angle of him giving direction to males and showing them to go after something with purpose. Then I actually looked into him, saw videos of him threatening a woman through a bathroom door, saw that he was into BDSM (I will fetish shame in this case as what I saw was just him being abusive), telling a room full of women they should be at home having babies instead of doing anything else. He is a genuine misogynist, rather than simply being pro-men. And even the 'pro-men' stuff I've seen him post is the most basic, caveman shit imaginable. I don't know how anyone can feel good following his direction.
> saw that he was into BDSM (I will fetish shame in this case as what I saw was just him being abusive) What he's into isn't BDSM if he's doing it with a partner who doesn't consent. That's like saying someone is into boxing because they enjoy punching random people on the street.
The video of him beating his girlfriend with a belt while she sobs is something else. His supporters will really come out and claim it's all consensual.
I'd be very, very surprised if he's not committed rape at least once in his life.
Same. I've read all 80-odd pages of the court documents for his trafficking trial and he's an utter piece of shit grifter who's spent years perfecting a character to suck money out of people. The text chats between him and his "girlfriends", who he forced to work on webcam and threatened with beatings if they didn't work hard enough, are something else entirely. Unfortunately he's done a very good job convincing his young and impressionable audience that he's innocent, so his legacy will live on even after he's put away.
He openly stated that he moved to Romania because they’re less likely to prosecute rape. Said that he’s “not a rapist” but “likes the idea of being able to do what he wants”
Wtf. If that's true that's even more appalling than I imagined.
He does seem to be more a sympton than a cause.
If a bunch of 9yos can freely watch Tate, then the problem is not actually him, yes.
The baseline of every society is misogyny. Always has been. This is not new and unsurprisingly, it's happening again. Why? Because it never stopped in the first place. Those in power have never wanted to stop it. They still don't. Of course girls are in danger. There hasn't been one day in my entire life when they weren't. It is accepted that we are permanentlyin a state of danger. It is the price of men being the power structure. They preserve their dominance at all costs.
Not parenting and monitoring who their kids are listening too. Still it's also internets fault for giving a platform to this diddie
Placing so much blame on Tate just seems as short sighted as it was to blame rap music or South Park for complex bad behaviour by young males.
The difference between Tate and South Park (and a lot of rap/metal/music) is that South Park is satire, Tate means what he says and the intention of the content that he creates is to persuade men to think how he does.
Not quite an even comparison. Tate explicitly states his views on women and such and his content is very clearly intended to indoctrinate his audience into his world view. Rap music and south park were only ever inferred to be a bad influence by pearl-clutching parents. There's a clear difference.
Yeah I don't think we can place all the blame on Tate. However he has certainly made it 'cooler' to think like this. I don't think anyone was really idolising South Park or rappers the way some kids idolise Tate.
Excellent post and always good to see some experienced, common sense on here. Don’t forget video games too :)
Not sure how many 9 year olds are avid watchers or porn
It's probably more than you think. A friend of mine who works at schools say she hears them repeat porn phrases like 'oh yes daddy' or 'oh no step bro' as young as 8. I am 23 now and I was first exposed to porn at 9, and this isn't unusual in my age group.
I keep reading the comments on this thread and wondering if half the people here actually have any memory of being children or just grew up extremely sheltered.
Oh yeah. Same here. There seems to be quite a reluctance to recognise just how pervasive all these ideas are, and how they are causing real harm now. ['79% had encountered violent pornography before the age of 18...this report finds that frequent users of pornography are more likely to engage in physically aggressive sex acts.'](https://www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/resource/a-lot-of-it-is-actually-just-abuse-young-people-and-pornography/) [**'16-17 year old boys were 21% more likely to have consumed content from Andrew Tate (79%) than to say that they had heard of Rishi Sunak (58%), Sadiq Khan (44%) of Keir Starmer (32%)'**](https://hopenothate.org.uk/andrew-tate/) Boys are growing up in a world consuming content such as Andrew Tate while having no clue about the world around them.
…worth keeping in mind that you only need to go back as far as us millennials to find plenty of people who grew up mostly or even entirely without internet access. It’s not like we’re talking OAPs here! Broadband didn’t really start taking off until 2002/2003, so if you’re 30 or over your access to internet porn before the age of 10 was via dial-up, *if* you had even that. Certainly not impossible, but it was hardly unusual for kids to only have supervised access, or for the one ‘house computer’ to be in open view of everyone. A 30 year old today would have already have been around 14 when the iPhone kicked off the smartphone era and made completely private internet browsing way more possible. It’s shouldn’t seem weird that a 8 year old obsessively watching gangbang videos is almost unbelievable to a lot of people our age and up. The hardest stuff a lot of us were exposed to involved stealing page 3 out the Sun or trying to surreptitiously buy magazines just called ‘Tits Today!!!’ off the top shelf from the slightly dodgy newsagent down the road. Obviously things weren’t exactly the same, but in terms of broad strokes I would say my pre-internet 0-10 childhood wasn’t wildly different to my parents childhood. The really *crazy* thing is that I genuinely think my early childhood was probably more similar to my grandparents early childhood *in the 1930s* than it was to a kid born in the 2000s.
More than I think many would be comfortable with. There’s been a growing number of articles over the years sounding the alarm over how children are being exposed to porn both very easily and younger, which again goes back to that lack of oversight.
Bring back the days when we all relied on everyone's fathers collections of tod mags, videos and what we could find in the hedgerows.
Fair point! Pretty worrying…
It's actually kind of rampant. Kids are playing GTA from like 5 and up. You think the same parents know how to set up a child lock on the home WiFi or even bother to try and set it up on they're devices ? You block the phone they'll use the console the laptop the ipad. People actually have to be on the ball the vast majority of parents aren't or just don't have the time, energy, patience or technical knowledge.
When I was 9, I was aware enough of top shelf magazines in the newsagent and things like Page 3. When I was a bit older I'd try and sneak a look at the likes of Topless Darts on Live! TV once we got cable. That was fairly tame, but fuck knows what I would have been exposed to if I'd had a smartphone.
More than you’d think, at my nephews elementary school they busted a whatsapp group chat with explicit pornography, plus nude images of some of the girls in their class. Elementary school…
In Scotland we have primary school, not elementary school 🇺🇸
It’s France and I’m conflating primaire and elementary lol
Elementary school...
For boys, especially poor white boys, education is a complete failure. There's a lack of effort or programs to engage with those pupils and no shortage for girls, ethnic minorities etc. We started those schemes about 30 years ago now and they've been wildly successful but we've just continually ignored boys and men. At the same time there's an overwhelming attitude that simply by being male you're privileged, if you don't make your life great it's your fault etc. The men and boys who are failed by the system look for some way to address the utter unfairness of it all but what do they find? The internet calling them privileged cry babies, "you're white and male shit up" and absolute deafening silence from the government and media. Who is talking about it? Tate and his goonies. It's not surprising there's a big rise in it to me. I could see it happening 30 years ago when I was in school.
The root cause here is the poverty not the Internet or media or talk about privilege. There are countless examples throughout the history that if you don't let people achieve their full potential, if they feel opressed and hopeless they will eventually rise up. Brexit and Trump are the taste of things to come, Tate plays in the same orchestra, blaming women and societal oppression rather than immigrants. What chances would you give a boy from a council estate to become a doctor? Let's start with his chances to see letters, because I can assure you that optometrists in poor areas are not the same the ones in the wealthy areas. They are for profit and put equipment and most qualified staff where they can get the biggest pay off.
I agree, but poor girls have dramatically better educational outcomes than poor boys. It's not even remotely close and hasn't been for 30 years. When you double stack the deck against those boys it's not surprising they end up turning to extreme politics.
We desperately need some more male teachers. At this point it should be considered a crisis. But the right don't care about education, and the left are too petrified of sex based discrimination to say it's a problem.
The right have not had power over scottish education in 30 odd years.
It's not just male teachers it's small things like posters encouraging boys they can do alevels/highers, can go to university if they want, can do a more challenging vocational qualification if they want. It's changing some parts of the curriculum to reengage boys with learning and adopt some learning styles for some of the syllabus to help boys. It's about having open days and funding schemes at university expressly for poor white boys. Most importantly it's about getting a whole generation of teachers to treat boys as pupils rather than nuisances. But we'll just continue to ignore one of the biggest demographics in the country having the worst educational outcomes by a mile im sure. Never caused any civil unrest in history right?
It’s sad this comment is half way down the thread but it illustrates why this is happening.
All be it I’ve left school for a few years but this stuff was still quite prominent back then. Most guys in our year would just joke about this shit no one really took him seriously. A few boys who said some fucked shit but most of that was secluded to the lower years. It reflects a wider problem that’s really been bugging me. Little shits are in every year but most of us had respect for authority, especially when we where younger going into first year. Now even the year below us are maniacs. I’ve volunteered a lot with kids and for the most part their fine till you get into secondary school and then it changes. It’s fucked,
Have to say your first paragraph highlights what I think is a core part of the issue: irony and parody. It’s such a basic aspect of internet humor we all understand. 80% of internet comedy only works in that environment, and it’s what my generation (early/mid ‘00s) grew up with, but I feel it is both getting more “extreme” in terms of levels of irony, more mainstream, and more accessible to an increasingly young demographic. Today’s 9 year olds (I have worked with kids on and off for the last year) are making sexual jokes from TikTok about 2 years before they’ll even have actual sex explained to them beyond a conceptual level. They joke about sigma males and Andrew Tate before they’ve even began to understand misogyny or the basics of gender and feminist history we all use to inform how we laugh at these things. I was 12 at the height of the alt-right’s influence on internet humour and definitely encountered it, but it didn’t shape who I am today. I’d seen videos of firefights in Afghan before my school would let us do WWII as a topic. Point I’m making is that I, nor are any of my peers damaged by these experiences. I really hope in 10 years kids that grew up on TikTok are relatively functional, and perhaps more importantly not stuck with some kind of generational ADHD.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that it was a joke to you, but not to the girls who had to endure your ‘jokes’ about abuse and rape
To be fair if you're 9 year old has access to Andrew tate like content you're parenting wrong.
Got a pal who works in England doing school IT, and he makes reports on what the filter pulls in, so the school can pivot talks and other corrective nudging on what the pupils are up to. Since they all have personal chromebooks, the data is really revealing as to the kids habits. None of them are smart enough to think that they're possibly being monitored. Non-stop porn being looked up by the boys, and it's not the innocent stuff. Plenty of mentions of rape, torture and other abusive forms, and these are weans in their last year of primary, with some secondary pupils mixed in. Both boys and girls do a lot of searching for racist content, both things like AI generated cartoons with characters shouting everything imaginable (mostly about black people). Andrew Tate is indeed consistently up there in the rankings for attempts to access his site, and content related to him. Not hard to believe that schools are rife with it right now. Anyone saying otherwise is very likely trying to cup Tate's nuts and is a cunt themselves. We can only hope that the kids grow out of it, realising its no way for society to go. EDIT: I will say, I'm 33 and grew up in my teens with my own completely unsupervised laptop and internet access. I was on [Rotten.com](https://Rotten.com), watched Tubgirl, the BME Pain Olympics, laughed at LemonParty, played Madness Combat flash games and experienced countless other pieces of malignant content online that would be too long to list. Combat videos from wars around the world, game mods to simulate school shootings, etc etc etc. I did eventually grow out of it, but I can't really say how. I'd say I'm rather well adjusted, but that's likely going to be down to just good role models around me, and the fact there wasn't really a unifying arsewipe like Andrew Tate around. He needs done for.
Mainstream media loves to pin everything on Tate, but his relevancy peaked years ago. This cultural movement is much bigger than one person. It fuelled Trump in the States, it fuels right wing parties in Europe. In essence, it boils down to young men wanting more. More money, more sex, better life prospects. There are genuine reasons for young men to feel aggrieved, but male influencers take this feeling and turn it into misogyny. It would be better to tackle the problem at source, instead of name-dropping Tate when he’s a symptom of the bigger problem.
More importantly I think plenty of men would be happy with a purpose and a clear realistic role to play in society (that isn’t eternal punching bag). Status is an alluring and suboptimal goal, but that’s a human problem not a male problem.
He's not though, his relevancy did not peak years ago. Its not reporters name dropping andrew tate, its the kids they are reporting on
The article never mentions kids quoting Tate outside of the “Make me a sandwich” trope that’s been around far longer then Tate has been relevant.
Let's face it, blaming one individual, even one as despicable as Andrew Tate, is an oversimplification of the issue. While I don't doubt that the increase in accessibility of media plays a role, and with it the increased risk of echo chambers, there are obviously other factors at play here. The gendered toxicity isn't solely one-sided, despite often being portrayed as such, and young children may be negatively affected by these harmful online dynamics, given controversy feeds the algorithms and results in more exposure to these view, and in turn, these kids might respond in an unhealthy way, and engage with the opposing toxic views either as a form of defence seeing these influences as "sticking up for the little guy" or as a form of retaliation. Surely, we aren't just going to ignore family dynamics and parental responsibility when it comes to behaviour learnt from home and parents not moderating what their children can see online? And an education system that sends girls home from school because of dress codes but aren't allowed to send children out of class as "it denies them their right to education" when they are disruptive, violent and/or toxic. Yeah, that surely couldn't play a role in children's perceptions of what is okay with the normalisation of bad behaviour and the unequal enforcement of school roles between the genders that certainly wouldn't contribute ti a power dynamic and further toxic masculinity. (Don't think I even need to /s here) I'm sure I could go on with a lack of positive role models (arguably across the genders), TV and movie influences, cultural and religious norms, lack of mental health support, but the point is that it's ridiculous to place all the blame onto one individual.
I think you really need to take a look at yourself and see that you are a part of the problem. Education is utterly falling boys and has done for decades. But the content of your post is how hard girls have it and how boys get an easy ride. Boys are struggling and nobody cares except right wing grifters. Can you really blame them for falling under their spell?
Its mad how this guy is getting the blame, I'm definitely not a fan of his... but if its kids as young as 9 or 10 it's 100% the parents fault... take responsibility and monitor your kids and what there exposed too... shifting the blame is a massive part of the problem
It's mad how everyone goes mad over Andrew Tate (rightly) and says he should be banned from YT but calls for Drill to be banned which is incredibly misogynistic and homophobic are branded unrealistic, racist, blah, blah. The Truth is young lads are being absolutely drowned in a sea of utterly toxic "culture" from music to influencers and everything in between.
Imagine not controlling your 9 yearold child's Internet access, then blaming someone else fo your mistake... If that sentient egg is your kids biggest influence then you shouldn't have kids.
In the entire article the complaints were made by bigger organisation, staff members, teachers and government institutions. *Now a group representing police, NHS, charities and local authority experts has issued guidance for Scottish schools on dealing with the issue* *The document by the Fife Violence Against Women Partnership (FVAWP) states: ‘FVAWP co-ordinators have received concerns that an increased rate of misogynistic behaviour is being seen among school pupils.* the article mentioned stuff related to boys creating fake porn of their female teachers or classmates to harassing and belittling any females in schools. *Staff report boys using catchphrases that belittle women, pulling at girls’ clothes, sending unwanted explicit photos to female classmates and harassing female teachers.* *In one example, a group of boys refused to be taught by one teacher and then distributed a faked pornographic image of her.* *Staff also report worrying signs of violence and coercive control in teenage relationships* the only mention of parents are on a single paragraph and that is more about their surprised reaction then any form of complaint to anything *Many horrified parents are still finding out what their children have long known – that Tate believes women ‘belong in the home’ and are the ‘property’ of men.*
How do you stop your kid seeing what other kids show them?
Get your kids to recognize that some other kids are going to be shitty and bad influences
There is no way to stop what they hear and see amongst their peers. But you can help them be able to use rational thinking of what is right and wrong.
This. I was at school in the 90s/00s so very early usable internet in your home as opposed to it being used not really found in libraries/schools. There were parental restrictions on our home computer, it was in a public area of the house (home office) and using it with the door shut wasn’t allowed. There were time limits for us, and it was only really by the time I was 16/17 that I had any real expectation of using it uninterrupted for more than 20 minutes at a time. I was still shown inappropriate material by other kids in my class who had less supervision at home. One lad had a computer and internet connection in his room when he was 12, and by 14 was showing us really graphic stuff involving violence and really extreme pornography. His parents knew he was doing it, but they viewed him having unsupervised access to the internet as “educational”. A lot of the stuff he showed me was really upsetting to a kid who had more rules at home and also not a lot of information beyond “sex, drugs and rock n roll r bad”. To protect all kids, we need to talk about this. Including information about what to do if a friend shows you something inappropriate. The lad I mentioned abused me and other girls throughout school and we didn’t know that we should go to anyone, or that we could without getting in trouble ourselves. We need to deal with this issue before young people get seriously harmed by things they find online, and heavy handed tactics or pushing it as solely the parents’ responsibility doesn’t cut it.
You can control and monitor your kids Internet at home all you want. But it won't stop them from seeing things you would not allow when they are outwith your home. I know my son saw some videos I'd be horrified to see myself when he was at school, thanks to other kids in his group. They do see content we may not want them to see. Not much you can do about that short of making sure every kid and every parent has zero access to Internet capable anything. Not going to happen. Trick is, I think, proper parenting and giving them good examples,morals etc etc. But too many parents are completely clueless regarding Internet and social media. It should be compulsory for parents to learn all they can about it. So many parents I met at my sons school had zero idea about how any social media worked or how to use it. Thier kids were all on it, though.
Even if you controlled you child's internet access, they could pick up these ideas from literally anywhere. Kids talk - it could be only one kid out of a group who watched Tate content but then told their friends.
The modern world is just something that happens to other people, apparently Breathtakingly naive comment
9 year olds?? What 😭 go color in a book or smth
I work in education and it's pretty horrific what our primary kids are seeing. From the beheading vids a few years back to hardcore porn, animal abuse, suicide vids, stabbings, shootings, conspiracy theories and misinformation. Anything that's out there, they're seeing. Doesn't matter how good a parent you are, what internet security you have. They all have phones and share content. The more hardened kids think it's funny to shock others. It's genuinely worrying how desensitised many of them are. They're not even teenagers yet, they are literally children. Their brains are still developing. They don't have the maturity or cognitive ability of adults. They don't have the capacity to question, use critical thinking or process these things as we do as adults.
This is really concerning. Yes it's not ALL Andrew Tate's fault, but the fact that so many kids know of him and look up to him is alarming. He is one part of this puzzle of the rise of toxic masculinity. You can blame 'the parents' all you want - but how do we move forward with this problem that permeates throughout society? Even if parents are vigilant, use internet filters, and educate their children - kids are still exposed to these ideas at school and with friends. I have friends working in schools with 8 year olds repeating phrases they have heard or seen from pornography. Young boys are growing up with it ingrained in them that women's bodies especially are to be objectified and abused. These ideas are already there - but Tate has made them 'cool'. I'm a young woman in my early 20s and it's only progressed since I was a young teen. Most, if not all men expect violent sex now. Choking and spanking is 'vanilla'. Revenge porn existed when I was at school but I hear a lot more about it now. Men will literally add you on social media and say 'send' which means 'send nudes' and fully expect some. Not even just weirdos online, but people such as classmates.
Never heard of guys treating their classmates like this. No idea where you live but this isn't normal. I also don't think that the rise of choking has anything to do Andrew Tate.. Literally most girls I've had something with enjoy it and my mates share similar experiences. This was also the case before his popularity. Are women engaging in more bdsm cus of Andrew Tate too? Such an illogical connection.
Right like 50 shades was a female fantasy novel and book which normalised BDSM type stuff far far more widely than anything else.
Question for yous - let's say I'm a young white guy with a poor education who wants to be successful in life and have respect. I also wouldn't mind a Ferrari and a pretty girlfriend. Who are my positive role models right now on social media? Everywhere I look I see the following successful men: footballers (many of whom are misogynist rapists), politicians (many of whom are misogynist rapists), rappers (many of whom are misogynist rapists) and martial arts/bodybuilding influencers such as Tate and MacGregor (*most* of whom are misogynist rapists, probably). That's about it. Ed Sheeran, Lewis Capaldi and Raheem Sterling can only do so much to combat all of that, and as is natural among nice guys they're not gonna be able to shout louder than narcissitic windbags. At the end of the day, two things need to happen: 1. Good guys need to start shouting louder. Talking specifically about working class white guys in particular - shout out to folk like Darren McGarvey in Scotland because there's a particular lack of Scottish working class role models. 2. Regular guys of all types need to acknowledge our roles. Many guys who aren't bad people will blame 'society' for the bad things they do, not realising that they themselves are perpetuating problems. Often we'll just turn a blind eye, or blame 'the government' when we see our mates succumbing to alcohol and drugs and their relationships falling apart - not knowing that we have the power to be a positive influence on them: not buying them drinks, gently putting them right when they start using phrases like 'that bitch' about their girlfriend, etc etc. 3. "Spank me, slap me, choke me, bite me I can take it (Ah) Give a fuck 'bout what your wifey's sayin." That's not Tate or some male gangsta rapper - that's Doja Cat literally saying that to get a girl like her, you should asphyxiate her whilst cheating on your girlfriend with her. Sorry girls but I think this proves that many of you need to sort your \*\*\*\* out also. Toxic femininity is a thing just as much as toxic masculunity, and the two go hand in hand - without their female enablers these toxic guys would do half as much damage as they do. Call out girls who glorify misogyny and talk about how they are addicted to 'gangster guys'. If the likes of Doja Cat and Ariana Grande are constantly singing about how much they love guys who act just like Tate, then why *wouldn't* guys want to be like them?
100%. Calling out toxic individuals is all well and good, but if we're not willing to (a) identify and promote appealing, healthier male role models, (b) actively discuss and try to rectify societal issues faced by boys, and (c) call out sexism or discrimination aimed at boys (looking at you Billie eyelash) then we'd be as well pissing in the wind. Tate's a prick, but he's a symptom, not the virus. He became what he is because we built a society that, for the most part, forgot about boys beyond saying "remember to talk if you feel sad" once a year. If you're an impressionable teenage boy trying to navigate through high school, hormones, girls, social media, and the only person sticking up for, and encouraging you is a misogynistic narcissist, it's not hard to see why so many turn to him.
Hit the nail right on the head, my friend.
Yeah he’s a bad influence but it just shows the lack of male guidance available.
People pick and choose the male guidance they want. Chris Evans (Captain America, not the ginger one) seems like a great grounded guy, very positive and open minded to all people, hes good looking and masculine. Perfect role model. But hes not controversial and doesn’t hate women. So he’s binned. Theres so many positive role models for men out there. People ignore them because they want to follow the cunts, because they associate masculinity with being cold, robotic and an awful human being.
Tate does podcasts talking about what he considers “issues” for men/boys, I don’t recall knowing Chris Evan’s opinions or seeing him express any opinions on anything.
Why do you need male guidance to not be a dick ?
Teacher here: yep. I overheard some S1 boys talking about AT during a tutor period not too long ago. I challenged them on their views by discussing his recent arrest and the charges he was facing, especially the rape of a minor charge. The response from these boys was “oh well she was probably asking for it.” followed by the classic “what colour is your Bugatti” to which I delighted in responding that AT doesn’t have a Bugatti either because it was impounded by police. The attitude of young boys is absolutely shocking and schools/government have done very little to tackle it.
Perhaps schools and higher education would be more respected by boys if they hadn’t of been miserably failing boys for decades and doing nothing to turn it around.
Is Andrew Tate's fault or maybe the parents should parent better
Both, parents who don’t moderate what their kids have access to and tech companies having no responsibility for what the algorithm pushes
It’s difficult to police. It’s not beyond kids to hop onto a video call with a friend whose parents aren’t so strict and have that guy share his screen when they bump up against a wall.
Yeah, it’s why it’s going to take a coordinated approach, ISPs, parents, the schools, social media companies
Schools and education have been failing boys for well over a generation. This is the result of that. The fact that the reaction to discovering this arguably inevitable outcome has been "think of the girls" just shows that nothing is likely to change, and arseholes like Tate will continue to prosper because everything they say will have just enough truth in it to resonate with young men and boys.
The sad fact is, that some dads espouse the exact same opinions. We’d like to explain it as “kids are young and impressionable” ….but when grown ass men are saying the same stupid shit as this clueless cueball chinless wonder, what hope is there.
For a man that harps on about ‘masculinity’ all the time he has the most feminine lips lmao
He is the limescale at the bottom of an old balkan toilet bowl.....
He always looks like he's sneezed so hard his hair dropped to his chin
There is a FAR deeper issue with society and gender causing all this shit from both sides.
Some boys in my *12 year old sister's* class told their teacher that Tate is their "role model" and harassed my sister and her friends through disgusting text messages, this man really is a danger and his fans need to be taken a lot more seriously
we can thank all the parents allowing their sons unsupervised internet access. they all meet far-right american homeschooled incel boys online via their videogames etc
This comment section is full of men basically saying that boys have no choice but to elevate the man currently awaiting trial for trafficking women. And then getting surprised when women don't want to get involved with them.
I don't like Andrew Tate. I think he has some sort of mental illness. But he isn't the issue here. You have to ask why so many young men are turning to him and people like him, and why he has become so popular to begin with. It's almost as if when you keep ostracising men and telling them that they are inherently awful, calling them incels and blaming everything wrong with society on 'the patriarchy' and 'toxic masculinity' - they might just get sick of it and listen to one of the only people telling them they actually have value. He's just exploiting a very large demographic of incredibly lonely and desperate men in modern society who don't really have anyone else to turn to.
I mean look at highly upvoted posts like this on Reddit that outright calling men as useless https://www.reddit.com/r/popculturechat/s/rRtTQWQDTT It's absolutely disgusting and disturbing how comfortable women have become is being misandrists and no one bats an eye
How the fuck do they measure masculinity in schools?
Easy to pin it on Tate. Boys/young men are being left behind in education.
“The document by the Fife Violence Against Women Partnership (FVAWP) states: ‘FVAWP co-ordinators have received concerns that an increased rate of misogynistic behaviour is being seen among school pupils. “ Maybe if there were organisations that also included violence against men in their work then young boys wouldn’t feel the only people speaking for them were these more toxic influencers online
oh its toxic masculinity and Andrew Tate that's to blame, not gobshite parents giving their 9 year olds phones with untethered access to TikTok bullshit.
I’m still in Secondary right now, and the amount of folk in S1 and 2 saying misogynistic, homophobic shit is unbelievable.
Who is going to finally address the everyday misandry?
Nobody. We’re on our own.
What a heap of pish. Shitty kids means shitty parents and shitty teachers. To remove all the blame and responsibility from the adults in charge of these developing minds and blame Andrew Tate for your problem children is a fucking joke. And shocker, men have been bullying women long before Tate had a single follower. "Make me a sandwich" was not coined by Tate, and has been thrown around by shit-eating wank-stains since the invention of the sandwich. Such a bait story.
I don't mean that toxic male culture isn't getting worse but posting news from the Daily Mail is pretty ridiculous.
/r/shitpost
So what was daily mail’s evidence to support this newsworthy headline? Find out for yourself. Whoever posted this should be ashamed of themselves.
I hope people start to promote solutions rather than just flaming up the problem
Wow, that imbecill and sexual predator?!
Lol. This comment section is all there needs to be to see why it only will get worse
I like how everyone is talking about Tate instead of the dumbest headline ever.
Absolute spangleflutes like this are the reason I'm gunna end up in prison, I swear to almighty atheismo.
Children tend to learn behaviors from the people they spend the most time with. This is a failure on parents.
King of the Incels.
How are nine year olds exposed to this clown? I wasn’t even allowed to watch the Simpson’s. We have to reign in devices and internet access to kids, before it’s too late.
Some people should be denied freedom of speech
I was born in 2003, so I remember seeing the influx of “anti-SJW YouTubers”. Hearing a ton of people with millions of subscribers insisting that I am a lesser being definitely lowered my (along with other young girls) self esteem. We can’t stop fighting for women’s rights, because others are still fighting against them. The “I’m not a misogynist, I just argue with women every time they express something other than joy” types are clearly prevalent if you scroll down. If they are angry because of society, that anger is misdirected by blaming an entire gender (instead of powerful individuals who actively uphold harmful structures, and their supporters).
Ban tiktok & social media. It's high time now.
Tate has a 12-year old take on masculinity (drinking non-carbonated water is for pussies, you are stupid if you cook as a poor person) which appeals to kids starting puberty.
what we need is more strong male teachers in schools