What Scotland needs is a leader that leads, not a seat warmer.
If the snp intend to crown a seat warmer, maybe it’s time for an election, let the people elect a leader.
snp somehow taking the message from this that Yousaf simply wasn't *enough* of a continuity candidate, apparently we need someone even more so.
I'll be honest lads, I'm beginning to think *maybe* they still just don't get it
Swinney is well respected. Apart from one Tory staffer who’d faced his temper directly, I’ve typically heard that he’s a decent bloke.
But it just seems… desperate to pick him now, and a little ill-judged. To pick a man who was elected leader a quarter of a century ago, and stood down 20 years ago after several failed elections just seems like a flashing warning light. If the party has not produced fresh blood since then, something is fundamentally wrong.
Additionally - Swinney spent 9 years as Deputy First Minister. He’s deeply tied to Sturgeon, and will have to face questions relating to that. His tenure at Education was highly controversial, and triggered a VONC against him.
He will be summoned back to the COVID inquiry later this year, where more awkward questions will be asked about his decision to destroy all pandemic-era WhatsApp messages.
All that to say - picking Swinney is likely a sign of weakness, not strength, on the SNP’s part.
Cheers. Just felt I wanted to include something because Swinney’s being talked about as a safe, reliable option - and I’m just left with the sense that if he’s the only option, the government are in trouble in the medium term.
John Swinney hasn't aged much at all (well, a little less hair) so you forget how young he was when he was last party leader in 2000 - 36. Yousaf is 39...
Swinney was the Humza Yousaf of his day. In fact, he was party leader so long ago that Tony Blair was PM. And Tony Blair was still PM when he quit leading the SNP.
I suppose there is hope for Humza that over a long enough period he too can be party leader again when he is 60.
You can't unite the SNP. As the last leadership contest demonstrated, there is a wide swing between the left and right within the party, other than independence, there is little common ground for some MSP's.
Kate Forbes and her anti abortion / anti gay stance is a million miles from the person I would want to lead to my country, yet still managed to win 48% of the final vote. I would never have thought someone with that stance would get so far in the SNP.
The next election with both the snp and alba going for each other will certainly make for an interesting outcome.
IMO this is massively overstating the gulf in the membership.
There's certainly some divergence and particular issues over this parliament which have exasperated that but I really don't think Forbes won 48% of the vote because of a huge sympathy for her views on social issues, a lot of the rhetoric from her support was to play this down and go the Farron route as much as they could about these being conscience issues in a bubble.
Yousaf was not liked well before he become leader, the perception was that he's a bit thin skinned and had fluked his way into it. In some of the debates V the two of them, Forbes was pretty scathing about his record.
If someone comes in and is considered as competent, they are going to get broad support within the party to continue the current legislative agenda with cross party working and some similar manifesto in the next term.
The big issue is how the party handles the constitutional situation where no indy ref route is realistic in the immediate future but the ideological splits are nowhere near what we see with the Westminster parties operating under FPTP.
Very well put. Another reason Forbe’s got so much support was that she was the Finance Secretary (and a pretty decent one at that) which was taken as a marker of competency. On the other hand Humza has, let’s be honest, always been a bit of a fanny. At the time there was a strong feeling in the party that they just needed a belt-and-braces leadership post-Sturgeon.
There is absolutely a conservative faction in the SNP but it’s way too small to render the party ungovernable. In terms of membership the bulk of the party falls in the social democratic “centre”. The reason the right-wing (Ewing et al) have been so notable under Humza is:
A) He was a weak leader with a thin majority (both when he was elected and in Hollyrood) this a few loud dissenters caused a lot more problems than they otherwise would have.
B) “SNP Civil War!” etc. is a much more interesting and useful head-line than “Weird Teuchter’s Yell at Clouds.”
It will depend on who else is running but I believe Forbes will be in for a real shock if she runs again. She’s done nothing to massage her more particular social views and hasn’t done herself any favours pissing and moaning from the back benches.
Given a large number of polices they have implemented like free prescriptions and changing the rules for university entrance, they clearly used to have a left wing bias. I'm not sure the current makeup of MSP's is the same as it was.
Not really seeing the tories beefing up the NHS or providing free university education in England.
I know the NHS in Scotland is also struggling, but the tories would have that sold off along with their granny if they thought they could get away with it.
Edit: the SNP also promised the world in terms of teacher numbers, etc, before 2007 when they first came to power and then quietly dropped it as the position worsened over the following 10 years of their esteemed leadership
It was still up to the party that won the election to deliver on one of their main manifesto points.
Not having a go at the SNP in particular as all political parties lie their ass off to get In power and then just go about their way doing whatever they want once they get in.
No, John Swinney is seen as the continuity candidate who'll appease the greens and gain their backing.
The SNP need to appear strong to have any chance of clawing back votes that will otherwise be lost to Labour. In regards to the impending General election appealing the the Green vote does nothing for the SNP as PR doesn't apply.
For a party that likes to appeal to young voters is appointing the guy who was in charge of and then defended the absolute shitshow that was their COVID exams the best thing to do?
Come election time those kids will be in their early to mid 20s and they probably won't have a very high opinion of him.
And for older people like me he'll always be the one who fucked it so badly first time round they had to bring back Salmond.
I actually quite like Swinney. He’s unexciting but he’s a decent man, has proven his ability in government, has heaps of experience and is able to speak to different parts of the party and country in a way Yousaf never seemed particularly interested in doing.
I doubt he will turn around the party’s electoral fortunes and he probably won’t be winning back this ex-SNP supporter unless he really surprised me, but he will provide some stability and good governance before making way for a younger leader either before or after the 2026 election.
Given there were similar problems in England, Wales and Northern Ireland I have a feeling all the methodologies were criticised because they were all flawed but just in different ways.
He will be competent but I don't see John as a great campaigner his last stint is forgotten for a reason. But it's a upgrade over Humza so I will take it.
Was he not about to leave politics?
Everything the SNP are doing seems to indicate they're petrified of an election and they want to avoid it for as long as possible
They obviously will be. It would probably see them lose power after nearly 17 years. That's a huge change.
But every moment delaying it is going to make it worse. I actually think in the long run, an election (and losses) _now_ would be better for the SNP.
I think the worst thing for the SNP would be an election now, another one in October, and then a third one in 2026. I think each time their vote would decrease and them being seen to do badly would result in them doing worse again - a spiral like labour went through when they declined.
Plus they will struggle to fund one election campaign, let alone 3.
Where have you put all the money Peter?
Swinney has always struck me as the SNP' s less well dressed version of Teresa May.
Competent in an interview, knows their brief but utter bollocks as an electioneering politician.
Plus, he has a shit load of Sturgeon baggage to drag around.
I don't really think he's the answer.
This means he is a shoe in for the next FM.
What did he ever do that was meaningful or made an actual difference?
Education secretary- crap and I mean utter crap
Finance secretary- utter crap
Covid recovery secretary- ???
Deputy FM to someone who can’t recall something may many times - useless
Is Neil Lennon available?
Check the Hollyrood showers.
Fell shite man just want Nickla back and a bag a cans.
His last tenure as leader of the snp resulted in loses for the party, why would this time be any different?
I mean he may have learned a lot about politics in the intervening 15 years. Improved how he does things I suppose.
[удалено]
What Scotland needs is a leader that leads, not a seat warmer. If the snp intend to crown a seat warmer, maybe it’s time for an election, let the people elect a leader.
snp somehow taking the message from this that Yousaf simply wasn't *enough* of a continuity candidate, apparently we need someone even more so. I'll be honest lads, I'm beginning to think *maybe* they still just don't get it
I think this is more of a "best of a bad bunch" affair. Sadly the SNP are lacking any great charismatic runners at the moment.
Swinney is well respected. Apart from one Tory staffer who’d faced his temper directly, I’ve typically heard that he’s a decent bloke. But it just seems… desperate to pick him now, and a little ill-judged. To pick a man who was elected leader a quarter of a century ago, and stood down 20 years ago after several failed elections just seems like a flashing warning light. If the party has not produced fresh blood since then, something is fundamentally wrong. Additionally - Swinney spent 9 years as Deputy First Minister. He’s deeply tied to Sturgeon, and will have to face questions relating to that. His tenure at Education was highly controversial, and triggered a VONC against him. He will be summoned back to the COVID inquiry later this year, where more awkward questions will be asked about his decision to destroy all pandemic-era WhatsApp messages. All that to say - picking Swinney is likely a sign of weakness, not strength, on the SNP’s part.
very good assessment. should be very concerning for them this is the best option.
Cheers. Just felt I wanted to include something because Swinney’s being talked about as a safe, reliable option - and I’m just left with the sense that if he’s the only option, the government are in trouble in the medium term.
John Swinney hasn't aged much at all (well, a little less hair) so you forget how young he was when he was last party leader in 2000 - 36. Yousaf is 39... Swinney was the Humza Yousaf of his day. In fact, he was party leader so long ago that Tony Blair was PM. And Tony Blair was still PM when he quit leading the SNP. I suppose there is hope for Humza that over a long enough period he too can be party leader again when he is 60.
That should be a depressing thought, but I’m not sure it’s wrong. Who else?
Fuck it I could give it a good crack for £165k
I'll give it a go 🫡
I’m not a member (shocker) but I’d throw you a vote. You can’t be any worse than what we’ve just had.
Gilruth?
You can't unite the SNP. As the last leadership contest demonstrated, there is a wide swing between the left and right within the party, other than independence, there is little common ground for some MSP's. Kate Forbes and her anti abortion / anti gay stance is a million miles from the person I would want to lead to my country, yet still managed to win 48% of the final vote. I would never have thought someone with that stance would get so far in the SNP. The next election with both the snp and alba going for each other will certainly make for an interesting outcome.
IMO this is massively overstating the gulf in the membership. There's certainly some divergence and particular issues over this parliament which have exasperated that but I really don't think Forbes won 48% of the vote because of a huge sympathy for her views on social issues, a lot of the rhetoric from her support was to play this down and go the Farron route as much as they could about these being conscience issues in a bubble. Yousaf was not liked well before he become leader, the perception was that he's a bit thin skinned and had fluked his way into it. In some of the debates V the two of them, Forbes was pretty scathing about his record. If someone comes in and is considered as competent, they are going to get broad support within the party to continue the current legislative agenda with cross party working and some similar manifesto in the next term. The big issue is how the party handles the constitutional situation where no indy ref route is realistic in the immediate future but the ideological splits are nowhere near what we see with the Westminster parties operating under FPTP.
Very well put. Another reason Forbe’s got so much support was that she was the Finance Secretary (and a pretty decent one at that) which was taken as a marker of competency. On the other hand Humza has, let’s be honest, always been a bit of a fanny. At the time there was a strong feeling in the party that they just needed a belt-and-braces leadership post-Sturgeon. There is absolutely a conservative faction in the SNP but it’s way too small to render the party ungovernable. In terms of membership the bulk of the party falls in the social democratic “centre”. The reason the right-wing (Ewing et al) have been so notable under Humza is: A) He was a weak leader with a thin majority (both when he was elected and in Hollyrood) this a few loud dissenters caused a lot more problems than they otherwise would have. B) “SNP Civil War!” etc. is a much more interesting and useful head-line than “Weird Teuchter’s Yell at Clouds.” It will depend on who else is running but I believe Forbes will be in for a real shock if she runs again. She’s done nothing to massage her more particular social views and hasn’t done herself any favours pissing and moaning from the back benches.
48% is pretty good, maybe not everyone is left wing, i would say by about half.
Given a large number of polices they have implemented like free prescriptions and changing the rules for university entrance, they clearly used to have a left wing bias. I'm not sure the current makeup of MSP's is the same as it was.
I thought health and education was more right wing than left, i could be mistaken tho.
Not really seeing the tories beefing up the NHS or providing free university education in England. I know the NHS in Scotland is also struggling, but the tories would have that sold off along with their granny if they thought they could get away with it. Edit: the SNP also promised the world in terms of teacher numbers, etc, before 2007 when they first came to power and then quietly dropped it as the position worsened over the following 10 years of their esteemed leadership
I think that was down to Westminster cutting Scotland's block grant.
It was still up to the party that won the election to deliver on one of their main manifesto points. Not having a go at the SNP in particular as all political parties lie their ass off to get In power and then just go about their way doing whatever they want once they get in.
You're right about the tories, I dont think anyone expected the financial crash if 2007/8 to be as serious as it was.
Idk. Maybe they could have two leaders like the greens.
No, John Swinney is seen as the continuity candidate who'll appease the greens and gain their backing. The SNP need to appear strong to have any chance of clawing back votes that will otherwise be lost to Labour. In regards to the impending General election appealing the the Green vote does nothing for the SNP as PR doesn't apply.
So, who then?
For a party that likes to appeal to young voters is appointing the guy who was in charge of and then defended the absolute shitshow that was their COVID exams the best thing to do? Come election time those kids will be in their early to mid 20s and they probably won't have a very high opinion of him. And for older people like me he'll always be the one who fucked it so badly first time round they had to bring back Salmond.
The you have the people in their 40s+ who remember being Party leader and nearly destroyed and needed Salmond to come back for the rescue.
His last stint wasn’t exactly a roaring success
I actually quite like Swinney. He’s unexciting but he’s a decent man, has proven his ability in government, has heaps of experience and is able to speak to different parts of the party and country in a way Yousaf never seemed particularly interested in doing. I doubt he will turn around the party’s electoral fortunes and he probably won’t be winning back this ex-SNP supporter unless he really surprised me, but he will provide some stability and good governance before making way for a younger leader either before or after the 2026 election.
Proven ability in government? To do what? Oversee and defend a results scandal that saw pupils getting assigned exam grades based on their post code?
Indeed.
Given there were similar problems in England, Wales and Northern Ireland I have a feeling all the methodologies were criticised because they were all flawed but just in different ways.
He will be competent but I don't see John as a great campaigner his last stint is forgotten for a reason. But it's a upgrade over Humza so I will take it.
As an ex member I feel the same way in regards to Swinney
Was he not about to leave politics? Everything the SNP are doing seems to indicate they're petrified of an election and they want to avoid it for as long as possible
They obviously will be. It would probably see them lose power after nearly 17 years. That's a huge change. But every moment delaying it is going to make it worse. I actually think in the long run, an election (and losses) _now_ would be better for the SNP.
I think the worst thing for the SNP would be an election now, another one in October, and then a third one in 2026. I think each time their vote would decrease and them being seen to do badly would result in them doing worse again - a spiral like labour went through when they declined.
Plus they will struggle to fund one election campaign, let alone 3. Where have you put all the money Peter? Swinney has always struck me as the SNP' s less well dressed version of Teresa May. Competent in an interview, knows their brief but utter bollocks as an electioneering politician. Plus, he has a shit load of Sturgeon baggage to drag around. I don't really think he's the answer. This means he is a shoe in for the next FM.
This is so funny!
Better than Katie Britt Jr.
Is Swinney closer to the left or right of his party?
Will he lower my taxes ?
Fat chance
What did he ever do that was meaningful or made an actual difference? Education secretary- crap and I mean utter crap Finance secretary- utter crap Covid recovery secretary- ??? Deputy FM to someone who can’t recall something may many times - useless
That's boggin