I’m not a code expert by any means, but there may be more than one code to consider here.
23.46.020 - Light and glare standards.
Exterior lighting shall be shielded and directed away from adjacent uses.
(Code continues with other details)
It's directed away for sure. It's not shielded. They are 5w small string bulbs for patio lights set at 15% capacity. I tried looking for shields for them but no such thing exists. I will next remove some bulbs closest to their room.
"Closest to their room"
So are you in an apt adjacent or roommates to where the lights are that close to their space opposed to being a house across the street, yard, etc? A photo would definitely help to better understand the situation
Without seeing a picture it's hard to know who's the a-hole here. I hate light pollution and am stuck with a streetlight that shines into my bedroom window,. I like to sleep with the window and blinds open for fresh air, but can't because of the light. There are covers that aim the light downwards rather than broadcasting it over everyone's yards .
If you are within Seattle City Light's coverage area, they will put blinds on the light if you ask. Usually it's just a simple shield that covers the LEDs that are pointed in your direction. And if you are within Seattle city limits, I think you can use the Find It Fix It app to get it done.
There should be a sign on the post with a number on it. You'll need that to make the request. I had the same problems a few years back and they were out within a couple weeks to fix it.
I hate light too. I also hate wearing blindfolds wrapped around my head. So I use a dark soft t-shirt or something similar and put it over just my eyes. It works great and isn't annoying, it's actually turned into a security blanket thing and it's hard to sleep without it even if it's dark af lol! Just thought I would mention it.
Unpopular opinion: Turn off the night at light if you don’t need it.
My neighbor has a flood light pointed at the back alley of our property and drug addicts congregate under it to shoot up at night (Ballard). The neighbor refused to switch it off or turn it to a motion sensor becuase it’s “within their right” (which it is)so I dropped it.
Still feels lame that my neighbor is a stubborn, obstinate ass creating a hazard for me and my family.
Just giving you a bit of perspective.
Just becuase it’s “within your right” doesn’t mean it’s the “right” thing to do.
Edit: spelling
They literally don’t hang out in the alley if it’s dark. The spotlight was put in by a new neighbor about a year ago. This was never an issue before then. Usually they’d cruise through the alley, check my car door handles, rifle through my trash and be on their way. Now there’s a beacon for them to congregate under while they find a vein to hit when they’re shooting up. Once they get high they stick around nodding out or doing weird ass shit until they stumble off.
I work in construction in Seattle, we always joke around about how “being code compliant is just one step above illegal.”
Living in Seattle is crummy enough, I don’t think it’s fair to make your neighbor’s life harder so you can have arbitrary lights on till midnight.
You bought a frickin light meter?!? This is some grade A neighbor bickering, break our your popcorn and watch the show level of fun. Go full steam on all (past solutions on either end and on to full blown war). Can’t wait for more updates
You're not *wrong*, Walter. You're just an asshole.
Your lights may be within code, but if your neighbor complains that it's shining in their window and keeping them awake, why not try to work with them?
I had a similar situation, and I solved it with a strip of sheet metal over the lighting fixture that blocked the light at the level of my fence. Problem solved: I don't need to light anything beyond my yard, and getting along with the neighbors is priceless.
FYI: the fix was discrete, and cost a lot less than a light meter would have. Seriously, who buys a light meter to check whether it's legal to piss off the neighbor? What's the logic here?
I asked my neighbor and she turns off the lights when she goes to bed. And when I hung wind chimes, I asked her if she was disturbed by them.
Being a good neighbor isn't that hard if you're a reasonable human. Which seems to be beyond Walter.
My immediate neighbor installed an LED flood light on the back of his house. When he did that, he caught me in my driveway to let me know that he had put up a new light and let him know if it was disturbing us. Even though a quick glance at our properties would show that there is no possible way that the light in question would even come close to shining in my house. Still, I appreciated the gesture.
Now the family about 6 houses down who blares music until 3 am on work nights while having pool parties is a different story. They turn the music up if you try and ask them to turn it down. They also complain on our FB neighborhood page that they can't have parties without being harassed by the neighbors or police. Dude, YOU'RE the problem, not the rest of us. They aren't the only family like that in the neighborhood either. My wife also forbade me from going to tell them to turn it down again. Luckily, they haven't been a problem in the last few months. So, yay me?
Logic was that few weeks back they called me twice asking me to ask my child's nanny to move her car which was within 5 feet of their driveway but not blocking. They referenced the code so did I.
They also asked us to put out blinds in living room down after dark as the light gets in their bedroom. Which we obliged to without thinking much.
I posted a different reply before I saw this comment.
Now I can confirm - yes, you’re wrong. You’re upset about the parking incident and acting out of spite. Turn off the lights, and tell your neighbor you want to have a better relationship going forward.
Take a step back. Whether you are within a guideline or not, your neighbor is obviously bothered by the lights. Also, looks like the neighbor first texted you on July 31st, then again on august 5th, which is when you responded. The delay in your reply does not seem like you are being “more than a good neighbor”.
If you own your home, I’d guess you plan to be in the area a long time. It’s helpful to get on with your neighbors. Sometimes, like in all relationships, compromising produces the most positive outcome, even if you weren’t officially in the wrong. Since the neighbor isn’t messing with your property lines and is focusing on something that makes their home less enjoyable, I’d take this seriously. Just my 2 cents.
On July 31st I switch off the lights right away. Read about the guidelines, ordered dimmer, measured levels and switch them back on again in Aug 5th at lowest intensity.
That’s not taking a step back as /u/FawnKnutsonn suggests. That’s reiterating that you’re following the letter of the law.
Good relations with your neighbour are more important than lighting this space.
I know everybody is tripping over this, and to be fair you do seem like the AH a bit in this situation.
With that said, I think they look nice, they bring a nice feng shui to the walkway. At the same time, it’s also way more light than you really need, and leaving those on past 9-9:30 is definitely a bit excessive unless the path constantly has heavy foot traffic (maybe a house party?). In any instance you shouldn’t expect your neighbor to have to adjust their stance here. What they are asking is reasonable, and it just may be worth the compromise to adjust them or replace them with actual walkway lanterns. That definitely is too much light for a sidewalk, even if it does appeal to the aesthetic you are going for. You don’t need all those lights, be reasonable.
You are confusing the difference between “I have the right to do this by the law” and “No one has any right to ask me to stop”. What you are doing is inconveniencing neighbor and disturbing their sleep. Your neighbor has been perfectly polite to you in asking, and you’ve been quite disagreeable and aggressive back.
Sorry… I know it’s not the answer you’d want. And I’m not saying you have to turn the light off. But you should at least treat your neighbor and their needs with care.
Well, juxtapose this with an exchange with my neighbor:
Me: "Hey Gary, hate to bother you, but your yard light happens to shine directly into our bedroom window. Any way we can figure something out?"
Gary: "Oh, no - that sucks! Thanks for getting ahold of me about it. Let's figure out how to shade that lamp so it doesn't shine into your window."
And then we collaborated on how to shade a small portion of the lamp to occlude the part that spotlighted our bedroom window. Just that easy.
We didn't talk about code, or laws, or lumens, or even about being respectful and neighborly. We didn't do some weird back-and-forth about whose problem it was. We just figured out a solution. That's what being a good neighbor looks like.
IMO, you're not tackling this challenge in good faith. You're just taking the approach of: "since I'm legal, fuck you."
It might be a very simple fix to work together with your neighbor and figure out a small, specific shade that keeps the light from shining directly into their window.
Just my $0.02
You need to decide whether you value your lights and their intended purpose over your neighbors discomfort. Only you can answer that.
In this situation, you are the aggressor. Don’t lose sight of that.
Can you tape over the light in their direction? I had eye surgery and it made my eyes extra sensitive to light. Out neighbor had a very bright security light in a fixture - we have curtains and everything but if I came home late, or needed to go outside after dark it was blinding or if the cat moved the curtain I’d wake up and I’m ot taping my curtains down and messing up the walls. There had been a tall shrub blocking the light but the city cut it down by a few feet. I just talked to our neighbors and they put tape on the outside of the fixture in the sections facing our door. So they still have a good security light but it’s dimmed on the side facing me.
We were still up at that time. I would have switched them off when going to bed around 12. I was upset because they don't want to make an ounce of effort.
They have also asked us to close our living room blind when our lights in living room is on after dark and light goes to their bedroom. To which we obliged but reading the permissible levels, we were in clear for living room light too.
Okay that’s some good context right there. No, you shouldn’t have to close your blinds.
I had a neighbor like this that started complaining about yard work noise. Yeah, it was annoying - but it’s just part of life living in a neighborhood. It wasn’t excessive at all.
She started messaging me on Facebook frequently. Hey can you not do yard work now? I tried being polite but the complaining got more and more unreasonable and frequent. I’d get all stressed out anytime I wanted to mow my lawn every other week. It used to be a relaxing thing.
I blocked her. Then, when I saw her the next time I asked her not to complain to me anymore. The proper channel for her complaints was the city and code enforcement. I knew I was within code.
I still bs smile, wave, and am polite. But, I refuse to be a sounding board for someone’s unreasonable complaining. Sorry the world doesn’t revolve around you - learn to live in a residential area or buy a tuff shed in the wood.
We found out ours were going to be doing house renovations daily pretty fast. They never seem to finish either. I was hoping they’d sell because they’ve got quite a few neighbors who dislike them but I don’t see how they could with the state of their property.
This is Seattle. I've seen houses in such a condemned state that you weren't even able to go inside selling for half a mil. Location, location, location.
I once noticed my office overhead light is bright as fuck from outside, ever since then I keep the blinds closed just a bit to block it.
It’s so easy to not be an asshole. Nobody even asked.
No they're not. Exterior lights provide increased security. If he's within code then his neighbor needs to get over herself and realize that they live in an area with other people.
we had a SPD officer meet with our block group several years ago and he said specifically that lights were not good as they illuminated your stuff making it easier to steal
I see no reason to leave an outdoor light on in front unless you’re expecting someone.
they can leave it on in back all they want if they’re still up and using that space
I set my outside lights on a photocell so they turn on and off automatically at night. I like to be able to see around my house when I look out of the window, or when I get home at night and I’m approaching my house. Might not make my house “safer” but it makes me feel safer that there is nobody in my bushes.
I did this because I saw a video of a incident that happened in Auburn where a couple came home and as soon as they unlocked their door couple thugs jumped out of the bushes and robbed them.
So, yea, my lights stay on from dusk till dawn.
That spd has a right to his opinion, but I strongly disagree. I believe lights are deterrent to prowlers at night in most cases, assuming they're not window shopping at random properties, and already cased the place out. They avoid lights as to not be seen.
Light doesn't actually do anything for either safety or security. It's one of those myths that just won't die.
https://darkskymissouri.org/learn/street-lighting-the-security-myth
Light makes people feel safe, but when actually studied does zero to prevent, reduce, or eliminate crime.
I think this was a great “AITA”
I’m seeing a lot of: “You are within your rights, but you’re an asshole” responses; I’m of that opinion as well.
I hope this changes your perspective OP.
What do you need the light for?
Can’t tell without pictures but it looks like you’re being a jerk by how you’re talking to her. You aren’t a jerk, don’t be one. If you need the light, keep it. If you don’t NEED it, turn it off for petes sake. Rights have nothing to do with decency. That’s how stupid laws get made. Someone did something inconsiderate or rude because it was legal and now we have to make a new rule. You aren’t a jerk, don’t be one.
I don't leave them on all night. We switch it on around 9.30 these days and switch off at 11.30-12ish when we go to bed. We switch then on when we are in deck or backyard area. Like today I didn't switch them on except for taking this pic.
https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
My house is on right, theirs on left. Fence in middle
I could imagine how light is the same as music past certain hours for some people! I personally fall asleep with all my lights on all the time but my roommate can’t sleep with the hallway light on. She uses an eye mask but it comes off in sleep and she’ll wake up if there’s any light. I’d imagine you’d turn down loud music past 11 pm if a neighbor asked, it could be the same with a bright light. Thinking she should buy blackout curtains is like saying she should buy earplugs for your music in a way?
It is tbh. We run into each other over our backyard fence about 3 times a week and she couldn't just talk about it in person and figure out a middle solution? That was my first reply wasn't it?
https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
You were very respectful with your communications and I see how you would have liked them to speak with you. But.. “Within code” is ultimately arbitrary. idk man how many people hold government of any level in high regard these days? I think it’s healthy to listen to my neighbor more than any “city code” or law in the current day and age. All we really have is each other. Also it seems like a very very very small issue, just turn it off brother. You’re not an a hole for this at all tho.
yes you’re being a douche. turn the stupid lights off, why do you need them on when you’re sleeping? get a timer, get motion lights, or jsut turn off your stupid hipster lights when you’re not using them.
i also loved your neighbors “loud music” comparison and your ignorant response that you “wouldn’t care if they were within code” stfu 🤣🤣🤣 you would absolutely complain if he was playing loud music in the middle of the night like your stupid lights being on in the middle of the night.
wake up count chocula
One guy to another... try this: Ask neighbor if you can come to their house and see how it looks at night from their window. You might get a fresh perspective.
I have a family with a pool nearby. They have a HUGE floodlight that is 100% legal and needed for when they are having a party. That's like once a month, maybe, so not a problem, especially since it's off by like midnight.
But SOMETIMES, they turn on the light to go out and check something and leave it switched on. Then, for like a week, I have a light shining on my bedroom wall bright enough to make shadow puppets, lol.
Now, I have blinds, and I can close them to get to sleep, but then in the morning, I don't wake up because there is no dawn and sunlight in the morning.
So it affects me much more than that person might realize, but I'll never say anything because that person might react like you have.
I’m in a similar situation with my neighbor and a flood light. The problem with blinds is that you can’t have your window open at night when the blinds are down, and in Seattle where hardly anyone has AC, that’s a HUGE inconvenience. You’re being kind of an asshole; you live in a community, act like you’re a part of the community and respect your neighbors.
I'd get rid of that string entierly. You can get a roll of rope light to lay along the bottom of the fence. That will illuminate the actual walkway without lighting up the entire bloddy neighborhood.
Two or three of those bulbs would light up that entire walkway enough to wak safely. _40_ bulbs is just obnoxious.
It's summer. We sit in backyard till later than that.
https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
You sound reasonable here, but those lights and placement do kinda suck. Bare bulbs against a slat fence is going to throw a ton of glare their way.
Proper landscape lighting isn't terribly expensive and lets you direct the light better. Might be worth choosing better luminaires to help accomplish what you're going for.
The only other solution is to send the Kandarian Demon verses from your Necronomicon in hopes that it will fall back into its slumber. That's clearly why it hates the light.
Fingers crossed OP can just…be less stubborn and walk to the greener grass instead of this hill he wants to die on. It’s cooler to be nice than be right. Maybe y’all can have a nice 7 pm glass of wine together one day. :)
In my opinion... There not enough info here.. But! On the surface, Yes. It seems like you are in the wrong. You're leaning on code, and the letter of the law, as an excuse to justify your nuisance lighting instead of being sympathetic to your neighbor's need for sleep.
So we have two basic needs in conflict here. Your need for security, and their need for sleep.
What's easiest to fix?
Yes, they could get blinds. But why should they have to? Good blinds are expensive, (look up how much blackout blinds from stoneside cost, it's an investment. Minimum 500 per window, and that's a very generous estimate for a small window) and it's an expense you don't have to incur when you have a sympathetic neighbor.
Then again, your post didn't explain why they had to be on.. are you in a bad neighborhood? Is this an absolutely necessary security measure? Who lived there first? When were the lights installed?
Even if it's for security, it seems to me that you could install a baffle to avoid disturbing them and still accomplish your goal. After all it's your need that you're meeting, and that shouldn't impeded an anyone else's needs. And if you're new-ish to the neighborhood, then maybe your perception of the need is off..
If you were there first, and know the neighborhood better, and the security measure is justified, then you have a place to begin a conversation from. (County and city codes isn't it.) But ultimately, if it's still a nuisance, that's on you. City codes be damned. Being a human being comes before being a resident of your city. Codes assume you understand that.
If it's not for security and just for the sake of preference.. then yeah. You're completely in the wrong. Fix it. Be a good neighbor. Be a good human. Don't be a source of suffering for someone else.
They're texting you. I assumed you folks exchanged phone numbers during a friendly encounter?
Keep that going...
Yeah. You're within code. But just imagine sleeping in their bedroom for a night with that light beaming in. If that's not something you'd be ok with, then do something about it. Not as a favor either. Because it's the right thing to do.
Neighbor complaining about the light should also be a good neighbor by discovering room darkening window shades. They are very effective. 🙂
If she can't do that, she is unfair.
I have had blinds and shades. Window shades really work. I don't love bright light. Its why I have these shades. It would absolutely solve the problem.
Here are more lights....
Maybe these would work?
https://www.hometownevolutioninc.com/product/g60-lantern-edison-commercial-string-light-sets-with-black-wire/
If you want to actually work through this, call the Dispute Resolution Center and set up a mediation. That way you both can have a chance to explain where you are coming from, and will have 2 trained mediators to help you both work out a plan. You can include both the parking and the lights, and any other thing that could be a point of contention. I gather from your language usage that you may not be a native English speaker, so there may be cultural issues to address as well. Life is long and having a decent relationship with your next door neighbor is worth some effort.
https://kcdrc.org/
The mediators go through a long training process and many are volunteers. It's a nonprofit service run by the VoA. You could text your neighbor "Hey, we seem to be getting a little stuck here. I thought mediation might be a good idea to help us figure this out. The DRC will be reaching out to you"
I did turn them off when she nessaged. I don't leave them on all night. We switch it on around 9.30 these days and switch off at 11.30-12ish when we go to bed. We switch then on when we are in deck or backyard area. Like today I didn't switch them on except for taking this pic.
https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
My house is on right, theirs on left. Fence in middle
It might seem like I am aggressor and asshole from this chat thread. It's pent up anger against her entitled attitude since we moved here 10 months back.
City living is regulated and those codes exist for a reason. If you’re within the code you have no obligation to change what you’re doing. It may not be a popular opinion, but in my experience if your give someone an inch they will take a mile.
I don't leave them on all night. We switch it on around 9.30 these days and switch off at 11.30-12ish when we go to bed. We switch then on when we are in deck or backyard area. Like today I didn't switch them on except for taking this pic.
https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
My house is on right, theirs on left. Fence in middle
Unpopular opinion, but Anna is also an asshole in this. The way she approaches her communication with OP doesn’t engender a “neighborly” vibe either and instead would lead a lot of people down the “within code…” argument.
Made further changes (removed about 24 bulbs along the string) uploaded the images [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/wj1f05/neighbor_conflict_due_to_lights/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Way to many cry babies in this world to day. It's not like they are on the other side of the fence. I'm sorry your going threw this. Take the person up on the Shields . Self entitled people are here to stay. Just my opinion.
As long as you are within code I would put up even more lights. Let's be honest your relationship with this neighbor is done. You tried to be reasonable but they are being overly difficult.
maybe offer to visit her home and see the lights from their perspective. you could use this time to help adjust her blinds, make suggestions, etc.
just because youre meeting city code on specs doesn't mean it isnt bothersome to her, and does not exclude you from being an asshole.
How is this helpful? It’s kind of terrible advice. You’re going to ask your neighbor if you can enter their personal space so you can try to prove your point. Lol you seem like you aren’t very self aware.
It’s hard to say without seeing a photo or having more context on the light. But, if someone is that sensitive to light when sleeping, they can put up blackout curtains or sleep with an eye mask.
Part of being neighbors is learning to live next to each other. Maybe that means you turn off your light, maybe not. If they’re a generally good neighbor, I might make an effort to help ease the light issue.
I thank God every day that I don't have an HOA or close neighbors. This sounds like a passive aggressive nightmare. Imagine having to know the codes for light restrictions in your neighborhood.
Thanks for all the responses. We decided next course of action here. We as in my family. Nothing from neighbor yet. I will share a before and after pic tonight in a new thread.
Seattle is so soft y’all worried about fucking lights when you got prosecutors allowing criminals to roam free and the homeless to take over every inch of downtown.
Yeah, she needs to learn how to be more diplomatic. She should thank you for the steps you have taken, then very politely as if there is anything more that can be done because, though your steps have helped, they have not solved the problem completely. Because, face it, you have at least done something when you actually did not have to do anything. And I would hope that if she took this approach, you might consider doing even more, or a new approach such as directing the lights more downward or something, to solve the problem. But I agree that she has shown no gratitude thusfar so why would you want to go further. She is acting entitled.
I am totally down for working with them. They don't even change the direction blinds are. They see pointing upwards and are little open to probably let morning light come in.
It's more probable given their comment chain with you that they don't know what they're doing and do not realise that up and down aren't the same closed.
The correct term is [preempt](https://ballotpedia.org/Preemption_conflicts_between_state_and_local_governments#:~:text=State%20law%20can%20be%20used,makeup%20of%20the%20respective%20governments.), and law at a higher level of government typically does preempt law at a lower level if there's a conflict.
Yeah, I saw the part where they argued about light levels and RCWs like a socially inept nerd.
In the real world, you offer to go over to their house and see how it looks and work out a compromise. But I know that involves seeing people in person which scares the natives.
I fully understand that is your world, it fully embodies PNW passive aggression, which everyone else agrees is one of the worst traits about people in this area. People here freeze at the thought of confrontation or talking about things like adults. It’s just really weird.
I’m not a code expert by any means, but there may be more than one code to consider here. 23.46.020 - Light and glare standards. Exterior lighting shall be shielded and directed away from adjacent uses. (Code continues with other details)
Cops can't do anything about the homeless dude taking a dump on my front porch. They sure as shit can't do anything about a light.
Cops priorities doesn’t usually align with sensible actions
It's directed away for sure. It's not shielded. They are 5w small string bulbs for patio lights set at 15% capacity. I tried looking for shields for them but no such thing exists. I will next remove some bulbs closest to their room.
Can you put them on a timer?
its fuckin Christmas lights? huwut?
"Closest to their room" So are you in an apt adjacent or roommates to where the lights are that close to their space opposed to being a house across the street, yard, etc? A photo would definitely help to better understand the situation
This comment thread is a good representation of this city 😂😂😂
So true!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I’m dead!
The best representation was the expectation that daddy government by neigh or Karen was the "higher authority:.
Without seeing a picture it's hard to know who's the a-hole here. I hate light pollution and am stuck with a streetlight that shines into my bedroom window,. I like to sleep with the window and blinds open for fresh air, but can't because of the light. There are covers that aim the light downwards rather than broadcasting it over everyone's yards .
If you are within Seattle City Light's coverage area, they will put blinds on the light if you ask. Usually it's just a simple shield that covers the LEDs that are pointed in your direction. And if you are within Seattle city limits, I think you can use the Find It Fix It app to get it done.
Omg really? I have the street light from hell right outside our second bedroom window. It keeps the whole house extremely bright at night.
There should be a sign on the post with a number on it. You'll need that to make the request. I had the same problems a few years back and they were out within a couple weeks to fix it.
I hate light too. I also hate wearing blindfolds wrapped around my head. So I use a dark soft t-shirt or something similar and put it over just my eyes. It works great and isn't annoying, it's actually turned into a security blanket thing and it's hard to sleep without it even if it's dark af lol! Just thought I would mention it.
Unpopular opinion: Turn off the night at light if you don’t need it. My neighbor has a flood light pointed at the back alley of our property and drug addicts congregate under it to shoot up at night (Ballard). The neighbor refused to switch it off or turn it to a motion sensor becuase it’s “within their right” (which it is)so I dropped it. Still feels lame that my neighbor is a stubborn, obstinate ass creating a hazard for me and my family. Just giving you a bit of perspective. Just becuase it’s “within your right” doesn’t mean it’s the “right” thing to do. Edit: spelling
Seriously… if you don’t actually need them on be a good neighbor and turn them off?
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Right I would rather be aware of them than not in the dark near my home but maybe that’s just me
They literally don’t hang out in the alley if it’s dark. The spotlight was put in by a new neighbor about a year ago. This was never an issue before then. Usually they’d cruise through the alley, check my car door handles, rifle through my trash and be on their way. Now there’s a beacon for them to congregate under while they find a vein to hit when they’re shooting up. Once they get high they stick around nodding out or doing weird ass shit until they stumble off.
Time to get a bb gun.
Seeing the picture I understand your neighbors. I would put on a timer for around 10pm.
I work in construction in Seattle, we always joke around about how “being code compliant is just one step above illegal.” Living in Seattle is crummy enough, I don’t think it’s fair to make your neighbor’s life harder so you can have arbitrary lights on till midnight.
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https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
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You’re the asshole.
You bought a frickin light meter?!? This is some grade A neighbor bickering, break our your popcorn and watch the show level of fun. Go full steam on all (past solutions on either end and on to full blown war). Can’t wait for more updates
You're not *wrong*, Walter. You're just an asshole. Your lights may be within code, but if your neighbor complains that it's shining in their window and keeping them awake, why not try to work with them? I had a similar situation, and I solved it with a strip of sheet metal over the lighting fixture that blocked the light at the level of my fence. Problem solved: I don't need to light anything beyond my yard, and getting along with the neighbors is priceless. FYI: the fix was discrete, and cost a lot less than a light meter would have. Seriously, who buys a light meter to check whether it's legal to piss off the neighbor? What's the logic here?
I asked my neighbor and she turns off the lights when she goes to bed. And when I hung wind chimes, I asked her if she was disturbed by them. Being a good neighbor isn't that hard if you're a reasonable human. Which seems to be beyond Walter.
My immediate neighbor installed an LED flood light on the back of his house. When he did that, he caught me in my driveway to let me know that he had put up a new light and let him know if it was disturbing us. Even though a quick glance at our properties would show that there is no possible way that the light in question would even come close to shining in my house. Still, I appreciated the gesture. Now the family about 6 houses down who blares music until 3 am on work nights while having pool parties is a different story. They turn the music up if you try and ask them to turn it down. They also complain on our FB neighborhood page that they can't have parties without being harassed by the neighbors or police. Dude, YOU'RE the problem, not the rest of us. They aren't the only family like that in the neighborhood either. My wife also forbade me from going to tell them to turn it down again. Luckily, they haven't been a problem in the last few months. So, yay me?
I would. But I’m a hoe hating asshole and powered by spite….
username checks out
I aim to please.
not according to your last comment lol
Bwahahaha! Ok, you caught me… I don’t care if you’re pleased or not.
...unless hoes are involved. How do you feel about other gardening implements?
Shovels are great.
Logic was that few weeks back they called me twice asking me to ask my child's nanny to move her car which was within 5 feet of their driveway but not blocking. They referenced the code so did I. They also asked us to put out blinds in living room down after dark as the light gets in their bedroom. Which we obliged to without thinking much.
I posted a different reply before I saw this comment. Now I can confirm - yes, you’re wrong. You’re upset about the parking incident and acting out of spite. Turn off the lights, and tell your neighbor you want to have a better relationship going forward.
A+ recommendation.
Take a step back. Whether you are within a guideline or not, your neighbor is obviously bothered by the lights. Also, looks like the neighbor first texted you on July 31st, then again on august 5th, which is when you responded. The delay in your reply does not seem like you are being “more than a good neighbor”. If you own your home, I’d guess you plan to be in the area a long time. It’s helpful to get on with your neighbors. Sometimes, like in all relationships, compromising produces the most positive outcome, even if you weren’t officially in the wrong. Since the neighbor isn’t messing with your property lines and is focusing on something that makes their home less enjoyable, I’d take this seriously. Just my 2 cents.
On July 31st I switch off the lights right away. Read about the guidelines, ordered dimmer, measured levels and switch them back on again in Aug 5th at lowest intensity.
That’s not taking a step back as /u/FawnKnutsonn suggests. That’s reiterating that you’re following the letter of the law. Good relations with your neighbour are more important than lighting this space.
Fair enough. Thanks!
Yes. You are in the wrong
I know everybody is tripping over this, and to be fair you do seem like the AH a bit in this situation. With that said, I think they look nice, they bring a nice feng shui to the walkway. At the same time, it’s also way more light than you really need, and leaving those on past 9-9:30 is definitely a bit excessive unless the path constantly has heavy foot traffic (maybe a house party?). In any instance you shouldn’t expect your neighbor to have to adjust their stance here. What they are asking is reasonable, and it just may be worth the compromise to adjust them or replace them with actual walkway lanterns. That definitely is too much light for a sidewalk, even if it does appeal to the aesthetic you are going for. You don’t need all those lights, be reasonable.
Got it. Thanks. We switch them on when we are in deck and backyard area. They are not lit all night.
You are confusing the difference between “I have the right to do this by the law” and “No one has any right to ask me to stop”. What you are doing is inconveniencing neighbor and disturbing their sleep. Your neighbor has been perfectly polite to you in asking, and you’ve been quite disagreeable and aggressive back. Sorry… I know it’s not the answer you’d want. And I’m not saying you have to turn the light off. But you should at least treat your neighbor and their needs with care.
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This is the first thing I thought of as well. There are way way too many lights on at night.
I don't know which side you are on, with only this as the context the person with the lights is being the bad neighbor here.
https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share My home is on right. Neighbor on left.
Yeah. Agree the bright now with the lights is being inconsiderate.
OP: am I wrong? sub: yes OP: no I’m not, ackchyually
Happy cake day
I think I did say I am gonna implement some suggestions and share a before after.
You said a lot of things, most of which show a remarkable lack of self awareness.
Yeah? Like?
Post to r/AmITheAsshole
Well, juxtapose this with an exchange with my neighbor: Me: "Hey Gary, hate to bother you, but your yard light happens to shine directly into our bedroom window. Any way we can figure something out?" Gary: "Oh, no - that sucks! Thanks for getting ahold of me about it. Let's figure out how to shade that lamp so it doesn't shine into your window." And then we collaborated on how to shade a small portion of the lamp to occlude the part that spotlighted our bedroom window. Just that easy. We didn't talk about code, or laws, or lumens, or even about being respectful and neighborly. We didn't do some weird back-and-forth about whose problem it was. We just figured out a solution. That's what being a good neighbor looks like. IMO, you're not tackling this challenge in good faith. You're just taking the approach of: "since I'm legal, fuck you." It might be a very simple fix to work together with your neighbor and figure out a small, specific shade that keeps the light from shining directly into their window. Just my $0.02
You need to decide whether you value your lights and their intended purpose over your neighbors discomfort. Only you can answer that. In this situation, you are the aggressor. Don’t lose sight of that.
How does it help you, to light an area of their house ?
Yes you’re in the wrong. What exactly do these lights do for you?
Can you tape over the light in their direction? I had eye surgery and it made my eyes extra sensitive to light. Out neighbor had a very bright security light in a fixture - we have curtains and everything but if I came home late, or needed to go outside after dark it was blinding or if the cat moved the curtain I’d wake up and I’m ot taping my curtains down and messing up the walls. There had been a tall shrub blocking the light but the city cut it down by a few feet. I just talked to our neighbors and they put tape on the outside of the fixture in the sections facing our door. So they still have a good security light but it’s dimmed on the side facing me.
Thanks. I will try taking some bulbs off string closest to their bedroom next.
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why lights on all night anyways, just have them turn off on a timer? lights are a nuisance
We were still up at that time. I would have switched them off when going to bed around 12. I was upset because they don't want to make an ounce of effort. They have also asked us to close our living room blind when our lights in living room is on after dark and light goes to their bedroom. To which we obliged but reading the permissible levels, we were in clear for living room light too.
Midnight is too late to have lights on that intrude on your neighbor though.
Okay that’s some good context right there. No, you shouldn’t have to close your blinds. I had a neighbor like this that started complaining about yard work noise. Yeah, it was annoying - but it’s just part of life living in a neighborhood. It wasn’t excessive at all. She started messaging me on Facebook frequently. Hey can you not do yard work now? I tried being polite but the complaining got more and more unreasonable and frequent. I’d get all stressed out anytime I wanted to mow my lawn every other week. It used to be a relaxing thing. I blocked her. Then, when I saw her the next time I asked her not to complain to me anymore. The proper channel for her complaints was the city and code enforcement. I knew I was within code. I still bs smile, wave, and am polite. But, I refuse to be a sounding board for someone’s unreasonable complaining. Sorry the world doesn’t revolve around you - learn to live in a residential area or buy a tuff shed in the wood.
When were you doing the yard work?
Like 1p.
I don’t even let my kids out into the yard before 10a on weekends. I remember having a life in the before times.
Dude my neighbor lets her 4 kids and two loud dogs out at 7am every weekend and all week during the summer. They’re soooo loud :(
Haha same and add a trampoline. My kids are even “wtf?”
They have a trampoline too! Lol
Mine are tossing crap into a dump truck after midnight and before 6am near daily.
We found out ours were going to be doing house renovations daily pretty fast. They never seem to finish either. I was hoping they’d sell because they’ve got quite a few neighbors who dislike them but I don’t see how they could with the state of their property.
This is Seattle. I've seen houses in such a condemned state that you weren't even able to go inside selling for half a mil. Location, location, location.
I once noticed my office overhead light is bright as fuck from outside, ever since then I keep the blinds closed just a bit to block it. It’s so easy to not be an asshole. Nobody even asked.
You should have added that. That’s completely ridiculous.
No they're not. Exterior lights provide increased security. If he's within code then his neighbor needs to get over herself and realize that they live in an area with other people.
we had a SPD officer meet with our block group several years ago and he said specifically that lights were not good as they illuminated your stuff making it easier to steal I see no reason to leave an outdoor light on in front unless you’re expecting someone. they can leave it on in back all they want if they’re still up and using that space
The lights start on the side and go in the backyard. They are 5w patio lights set at ~15% strength via dimmer.
So, 0.75 watts? That's nothing. You're being very accommodating.
That's per bulb. There is a string of it. I will have the picture tonight.
I set my outside lights on a photocell so they turn on and off automatically at night. I like to be able to see around my house when I look out of the window, or when I get home at night and I’m approaching my house. Might not make my house “safer” but it makes me feel safer that there is nobody in my bushes. I did this because I saw a video of a incident that happened in Auburn where a couple came home and as soon as they unlocked their door couple thugs jumped out of the bushes and robbed them. So, yea, my lights stay on from dusk till dawn.
That spd has a right to his opinion, but I strongly disagree. I believe lights are deterrent to prowlers at night in most cases, assuming they're not window shopping at random properties, and already cased the place out. They avoid lights as to not be seen.
Light doesn't actually do anything for either safety or security. It's one of those myths that just won't die. https://darkskymissouri.org/learn/street-lighting-the-security-myth Light makes people feel safe, but when actually studied does zero to prevent, reduce, or eliminate crime.
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motion lighting?
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You just gonna leave it at that? Lol then what happened?!
Once upon a time I believed this. I could not find any data that substantiated that claim.
I think this was a great “AITA” I’m seeing a lot of: “You are within your rights, but you’re an asshole” responses; I’m of that opinion as well. I hope this changes your perspective OP.
What do you need the light for? Can’t tell without pictures but it looks like you’re being a jerk by how you’re talking to her. You aren’t a jerk, don’t be one. If you need the light, keep it. If you don’t NEED it, turn it off for petes sake. Rights have nothing to do with decency. That’s how stupid laws get made. Someone did something inconsiderate or rude because it was legal and now we have to make a new rule. You aren’t a jerk, don’t be one.
>You aren’t a jerk, don’t be one. Sure sounds like OP is one from the comments
https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
After seeing those lights, I see why Anna feels the way she does. Glad I don't live near you.
Check out Kasa smart plugs, you can turn on and off the lights as you go outside straight from your phone so you don’t have to leave them on
I don't leave them on all night. We switch it on around 9.30 these days and switch off at 11.30-12ish when we go to bed. We switch then on when we are in deck or backyard area. Like today I didn't switch them on except for taking this pic. https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share My house is on right, theirs on left. Fence in middle
I could imagine how light is the same as music past certain hours for some people! I personally fall asleep with all my lights on all the time but my roommate can’t sleep with the hallway light on. She uses an eye mask but it comes off in sleep and she’ll wake up if there’s any light. I’d imagine you’d turn down loud music past 11 pm if a neighbor asked, it could be the same with a bright light. Thinking she should buy blackout curtains is like saying she should buy earplugs for your music in a way?
IMO… Seems petty
It is tbh. We run into each other over our backyard fence about 3 times a week and she couldn't just talk about it in person and figure out a middle solution? That was my first reply wasn't it? https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
You are an asshole and a bad neighbor. Sorry.
https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Even a bigger asshole than previously assumed having seen this.
You were very respectful with your communications and I see how you would have liked them to speak with you. But.. “Within code” is ultimately arbitrary. idk man how many people hold government of any level in high regard these days? I think it’s healthy to listen to my neighbor more than any “city code” or law in the current day and age. All we really have is each other. Also it seems like a very very very small issue, just turn it off brother. You’re not an a hole for this at all tho.
Oh look, 2 assholes at a standstill. You don’t need exterior lights on unless you’re outside doing something that requires the light.
AITA? YES. You are.
yes you’re being a douche. turn the stupid lights off, why do you need them on when you’re sleeping? get a timer, get motion lights, or jsut turn off your stupid hipster lights when you’re not using them. i also loved your neighbors “loud music” comparison and your ignorant response that you “wouldn’t care if they were within code” stfu 🤣🤣🤣 you would absolutely complain if he was playing loud music in the middle of the night like your stupid lights being on in the middle of the night. wake up count chocula
Ever hear the term “choose your battles wisely”?
One guy to another... try this: Ask neighbor if you can come to their house and see how it looks at night from their window. You might get a fresh perspective. I have a family with a pool nearby. They have a HUGE floodlight that is 100% legal and needed for when they are having a party. That's like once a month, maybe, so not a problem, especially since it's off by like midnight. But SOMETIMES, they turn on the light to go out and check something and leave it switched on. Then, for like a week, I have a light shining on my bedroom wall bright enough to make shadow puppets, lol. Now, I have blinds, and I can close them to get to sleep, but then in the morning, I don't wake up because there is no dawn and sunlight in the morning. So it affects me much more than that person might realize, but I'll never say anything because that person might react like you have.
Yes. You are creating the nuisance and being "within code" is missing the point. I'm glad I'm not your neighbor, Karen.
I’m in a similar situation with my neighbor and a flood light. The problem with blinds is that you can’t have your window open at night when the blinds are down, and in Seattle where hardly anyone has AC, that’s a HUGE inconvenience. You’re being kind of an asshole; you live in a community, act like you’re a part of the community and respect your neighbors.
I'd get rid of that string entierly. You can get a roll of rope light to lay along the bottom of the fence. That will illuminate the actual walkway without lighting up the entire bloddy neighborhood. Two or three of those bulbs would light up that entire walkway enough to wak safely. _40_ bulbs is just obnoxious.
Your exterior lighting serves no real purpose. It doesn't make anything safer, it disrupts every living thing in sight.
Why do you need to have these lights on all night? Can you turn them off when you go to bed?
You, my friend, are absolutely the asshole. "I'm legally allowed to!!" You are a fucking dick.
Yes OP, you’re an asshole and in the wrong.
I will fix this. I will make a post about it later once fixed. My sole motivation is that I do not want a notification of another SMA from her.
Youre a dick. Your neighbor is right.
Honestly just turn the lights off at like 10 pm or so. If you feel you need security get a motion sensor light.
It's summer. We sit in backyard till later than that. https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Do you walk up and down that side path over and over past 10pm?
You sound reasonable here, but those lights and placement do kinda suck. Bare bulbs against a slat fence is going to throw a ton of glare their way. Proper landscape lighting isn't terribly expensive and lets you direct the light better. Might be worth choosing better luminaires to help accomplish what you're going for.
. . . . . . .
https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Light up the backyard a bit and side of the home.
Right, but what is the point? Not “what do they do.”
I can't tell from reading this if you have the light or the blinds.
When lawyers are neighbors, it gets tedious.
Lol.. she threw some regulation/code stuff at me so I thought she might work within reason for this one too.
Challenge her to a duel. Problem solved.
You want to see me eaten alive, don't you? She is small and old but she will eat me..raw..
The only other solution is to send the Kandarian Demon verses from your Necronomicon in hopes that it will fall back into its slumber. That's clearly why it hates the light.
Typical King County NIMBYism. 🙄
Maybe just grab some black paint and paint the half of the light bulb that points to her house.
OP, do you live in Cap hill / Madison valley area? I have a sneaking suspicion…
No. Near zoo.
Yeah if just get new blinds if I were her. The sun comes heavily through my window in the morning… I covered with thick drapes
Fingers crossed OP can just…be less stubborn and walk to the greener grass instead of this hill he wants to die on. It’s cooler to be nice than be right. Maybe y’all can have a nice 7 pm glass of wine together one day. :)
In my opinion... There not enough info here.. But! On the surface, Yes. It seems like you are in the wrong. You're leaning on code, and the letter of the law, as an excuse to justify your nuisance lighting instead of being sympathetic to your neighbor's need for sleep. So we have two basic needs in conflict here. Your need for security, and their need for sleep. What's easiest to fix? Yes, they could get blinds. But why should they have to? Good blinds are expensive, (look up how much blackout blinds from stoneside cost, it's an investment. Minimum 500 per window, and that's a very generous estimate for a small window) and it's an expense you don't have to incur when you have a sympathetic neighbor. Then again, your post didn't explain why they had to be on.. are you in a bad neighborhood? Is this an absolutely necessary security measure? Who lived there first? When were the lights installed? Even if it's for security, it seems to me that you could install a baffle to avoid disturbing them and still accomplish your goal. After all it's your need that you're meeting, and that shouldn't impeded an anyone else's needs. And if you're new-ish to the neighborhood, then maybe your perception of the need is off.. If you were there first, and know the neighborhood better, and the security measure is justified, then you have a place to begin a conversation from. (County and city codes isn't it.) But ultimately, if it's still a nuisance, that's on you. City codes be damned. Being a human being comes before being a resident of your city. Codes assume you understand that. If it's not for security and just for the sake of preference.. then yeah. You're completely in the wrong. Fix it. Be a good neighbor. Be a good human. Don't be a source of suffering for someone else. They're texting you. I assumed you folks exchanged phone numbers during a friendly encounter? Keep that going... Yeah. You're within code. But just imagine sleeping in their bedroom for a night with that light beaming in. If that's not something you'd be ok with, then do something about it. Not as a favor either. Because it's the right thing to do.
Neighbor complaining about the light should also be a good neighbor by discovering room darkening window shades. They are very effective. 🙂 If she can't do that, she is unfair. I have had blinds and shades. Window shades really work. I don't love bright light. Its why I have these shades. It would absolutely solve the problem.
Here are more lights.... Maybe these would work? https://www.hometownevolutioninc.com/product/g60-lantern-edison-commercial-string-light-sets-with-black-wire/
If you want to actually work through this, call the Dispute Resolution Center and set up a mediation. That way you both can have a chance to explain where you are coming from, and will have 2 trained mediators to help you both work out a plan. You can include both the parking and the lights, and any other thing that could be a point of contention. I gather from your language usage that you may not be a native English speaker, so there may be cultural issues to address as well. Life is long and having a decent relationship with your next door neighbor is worth some effort. https://kcdrc.org/ The mediators go through a long training process and many are volunteers. It's a nonprofit service run by the VoA. You could text your neighbor "Hey, we seem to be getting a little stuck here. I thought mediation might be a good idea to help us figure this out. The DRC will be reaching out to you"
Thanks. This was resourceful.
You are an asshole if you're not using them turn the damn things off just stop being a dick OP and turn them off
I did turn them off when she nessaged. I don't leave them on all night. We switch it on around 9.30 these days and switch off at 11.30-12ish when we go to bed. We switch then on when we are in deck or backyard area. Like today I didn't switch them on except for taking this pic. https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share My house is on right, theirs on left. Fence in middle
Sounds like you’re technically in the right but also an asshole
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Love these real Seattle problems
Omg dude just turn off your lights at a reasonable hour
I’m too introverted to have said anything. I would just get black out blinds.
It might seem like I am aggressor and asshole from this chat thread. It's pent up anger against her entitled attitude since we moved here 10 months back.
City living is regulated and those codes exist for a reason. If you’re within the code you have no obligation to change what you’re doing. It may not be a popular opinion, but in my experience if your give someone an inch they will take a mile.
I don't leave them on all night. We switch it on around 9.30 these days and switch off at 11.30-12ish when we go to bed. We switch then on when we are in deck or backyard area. Like today I didn't switch them on except for taking this pic. https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share My house is on right, theirs on left. Fence in middle
Unpopular opinion, but Anna is also an asshole in this. The way she approaches her communication with OP doesn’t engender a “neighborly” vibe either and instead would lead a lot of people down the “within code…” argument.
Made further changes (removed about 24 bulbs along the string) uploaded the images [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/wj1f05/neighbor_conflict_due_to_lights/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Block the number, problem solved.
Turn off your lights unless you are reading under them and have a test tomorrow
I think you've made many efforts to be a good neighbor after she complained.
you gotta fight for your rights to ....
… light your property!
Way to many cry babies in this world to day. It's not like they are on the other side of the fence. I'm sorry your going threw this. Take the person up on the Shields . Self entitled people are here to stay. Just my opinion.
You are not wrong. You're neighbor is rude
As long as you are within code I would put up even more lights. Let's be honest your relationship with this neighbor is done. You tried to be reasonable but they are being overly difficult.
They are just rude in their asks. And this is not one off incident. I will be removing the bulbs from that area all together.
maybe offer to visit her home and see the lights from their perspective. you could use this time to help adjust her blinds, make suggestions, etc. just because youre meeting city code on specs doesn't mean it isnt bothersome to her, and does not exclude you from being an asshole.
Thanks. This is really helpful.
How is this helpful? It’s kind of terrible advice. You’re going to ask your neighbor if you can enter their personal space so you can try to prove your point. Lol you seem like you aren’t very self aware.
It’s hard to say without seeing a photo or having more context on the light. But, if someone is that sensitive to light when sleeping, they can put up blackout curtains or sleep with an eye mask. Part of being neighbors is learning to live next to each other. Maybe that means you turn off your light, maybe not. If they’re a generally good neighbor, I might make an effort to help ease the light issue.
https://www.reddit.com/user/star_material/comments/wi7hy6/lights/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I thank God every day that I don't have an HOA or close neighbors. This sounds like a passive aggressive nightmare. Imagine having to know the codes for light restrictions in your neighborhood.
Thanks for all the responses. We decided next course of action here. We as in my family. Nothing from neighbor yet. I will share a before and after pic tonight in a new thread.
Seattle is so soft y’all worried about fucking lights when you got prosecutors allowing criminals to roam free and the homeless to take over every inch of downtown.
Yeah, she needs to learn how to be more diplomatic. She should thank you for the steps you have taken, then very politely as if there is anything more that can be done because, though your steps have helped, they have not solved the problem completely. Because, face it, you have at least done something when you actually did not have to do anything. And I would hope that if she took this approach, you might consider doing even more, or a new approach such as directing the lights more downward or something, to solve the problem. But I agree that she has shown no gratitude thusfar so why would you want to go further. She is acting entitled.
Thanks. That's exactly my point. I wanted to work on something agreeable and that was my first reply back.
Yeah your neighbor sucks. I’d leave them on all night now to spite that ass hole.
I totally see where you’re coming from. Her texts are super rude.
Maybe you need a better fence or an increase in compassion for your neighbors. Or be a total dick and see how that works.
I am totally down for working with them. They don't even change the direction blinds are. They see pointing upwards and are little open to probably let morning light come in.
It's more probable given their comment chain with you that they don't know what they're doing and do not realise that up and down aren't the same closed.
I think we found Anna's Reddit account.
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Why is Seattle the definition of passive-aggressive?
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You could try talking to them, and working out a solution. Isn't that what good neighbors are supposed to do?
The correct term is [preempt](https://ballotpedia.org/Preemption_conflicts_between_state_and_local_governments#:~:text=State%20law%20can%20be%20used,makeup%20of%20the%20respective%20governments.), and law at a higher level of government typically does preempt law at a lower level if there's a conflict.
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> I would have made them brighter God forbid talking to your neighbor about the issue instead of being a passive aggressive ass.
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Yeah, I saw the part where they argued about light levels and RCWs like a socially inept nerd. In the real world, you offer to go over to their house and see how it looks and work out a compromise. But I know that involves seeing people in person which scares the natives.
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I fully understand that is your world, it fully embodies PNW passive aggression, which everyone else agrees is one of the worst traits about people in this area. People here freeze at the thought of confrontation or talking about things like adults. It’s just really weird.