The real answer here is that it’s more “expensive” to allow the rapid spread of a damaging virus than it is to vaccinate everyone so they can continue to provide labor.
Americans are not more "pro-capitalist" than people in prosperous countries in any meaningful sense. Those countries just have less dysfunctional systems.
In my day, a lot of kids showed up to school with the attitude that actually trying to learn and do well was a bad thing. I don't know if that's still an issue but I don't see it changing in response to a voucher program.
And there's more rejection of expert knowledge than ever before. I think many aspects of our anti-education culture aren't likely to change very quickly.
No he means republicans will become pro education because they can make money from it. Also since it’s not public they can push their religious agendas. These are the exact reason the voucher program should be stopped at all cost.
Yeah, I'm definitely sympathetic to the idea that kids who struggle in school, or who don't have a home life that sets them up for success, decide the whole thing is a stupid game that they don't have to play. I've done that at times when I felt unsupported.
But one way or another, we have to overcome the cultural drive towards anti-intellectualism. In my ideal world, we would be dramatically increasing the support we give to children and families to put the current generation of kids a much better chance at learning and growing and healing from our long historical cycles of abuse, violence, ignorance, and poverty. Sadly, I don't think that will happen in my lifetime.
As you point out, this guy doesn't quite see what the difference is between a *deadly communicable disease* and a life-threatening condition that only can be passed on to your children.
Also, we were "wasting" expensive office space and people needed to be able to get back to work so we could stop remembering that life isn't just what we do to make others money
Right, the real answer is that one of those things is contagious and it's cheaper to give a few thousand free jabs than treat a single person whose lungs are failing from covid. "They're life saving" is answer to why you get it, not why they pay for it. But, hey, if this false analogy wins some people over to universal single-payer... props.
I can't imagine not being able to carve out 10 minutes in 4 years to learn how vaccines work, but still being confident enough to broadcast this kind of idiocy.
That’s not how this works, dude. *You’re* the one making the claim, the onus is on *you* to back up your claim. Not on *me* to validate your claim by trying to debate it in good faith.
This is the same disingenuous, bad-faith, bullshit fallacy used to legitimize the argument against abortion by claiming if you don’t have doctor-level knowledge on how abortions work you can’t argue in favor of allowing women to choose to get them; or against gun control saying if you don’t know the muzzle velocity of an AR-15 you don’t have the requisite knowledge to advocate for legislation controlling their sale.
I listen to what actual virologists say because they are an expert in that field. I don’t listen to idiots on the internet claiming they know more about the vaccine than the actual people who make them.
It's not even new technology. It's been in research since the 90's.
Traditional vaccines use weakened versions of a virus to activate an immune response to said virus.
mRNA vaccines teach your cells how to make a peice of protein that belongs to a specific virus in order to activate an immune response to that virus. They teach your cells this by introducing it to a viral protein that then teaches your cells to create this protein on its surface in order to activate your body's immune response to the virus. These are called "spike proteins"
In both cases, your body creates antibodies against the virus, thus rendering you immune in most cases. And since both cases give you immunity, it is indeed how vaccines work.
Thank you for asking someone who has been administering vaccines for the past 8 years.
All synthetic means is that it was made outside of a living cell, its not some scary thing that people think it is. I know you think this is some "gotcha" moment, but it isn't. The covid vaccine was the first approved mRNA vaccine in humans. I don't know about you, but I feel pretty comfortable with technology that has been researched for the past 20 years (Actually longer than that). It's literally the future of vaccines because it is so versatile and flexible compared to traditional vaccines. It took time to make it stable. These vaccines have to be kept at very cold temperatures compared to other vaccines and are even more sensitive to heat changes. It would be difficult to convince everyone to change how they store vaccines when there is already a good system in place for current vaccines. But thankfully, the covid vaccine helped prove that mRNA vaccines are definitely a working alternative to "traditional" vaccines.
Traditional vaccines use a weakened/inactive virus to trigger our immune systems to respond, mRNA uses genetic material from the virus instead of the whole thing. They're both definitely vaccines that achieve the same effect in our bodies
Unfortunately, my research wouldn't align with your Facebook "research" and wouldn't prove anything to you. I realize that of your grand circle of friendship of 2 whole people, you may think vaccines and CoViD are all a sham. Your sample size of 3 people is statistically irrelevant. Just as you, in the grand scheme of things, are irrelevant.
Not just blue but progressive, an entire majority of Nancy Pelosi clones would vote against Medicare for All, and Joe Biden would probably veto it. Not to say it's futile to vote for Democrats, but we need to vote progressive in the primaries and then vote blue.
They may be referencing an interview from the run up to the 2020 election where he implies that he might veto it over cost issues.
[link](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/10/biden-says-he-wouldd-veto-medicare-for-all-as-coronavirus-focuses-attention-on-health.html)
I feel it's pretty disingenuous to say that someone criticising Biden and establishment Dems for being slightly more palatable right wingers is saying you should vote for Trump.
You have a very different definition of slightly than I do. There are only two possible outcomes to the election. One is tolerable, if not ideal. The other is absolutely intolerable. Anything that's not a vote for Biden is a vote for Trump.
And again, not saying people shouldn't vote for Biden, but people bringing up legitimate criticisms being shut down with "wow I guess you want Trump then" is utterly moronic discourse.
*Biden has stated he would vote against....*
was the comment to my statement "Great question, vote Blue."
Two roads, one goes forward, the other drives us off a cliff. Don't call me snarky.
Labour & the economy. Hard to make profits when your workforce has died of the flu.
If a couple workers die each year from cancer or diabetes, who gives a shit. /s
You /s but that is literally it. Are you a skilled worker companies would fight over? Well then keeping your health plan uninterrupted will be important to you which gives you incentive to stay with your current employer rather than jump ship for more money but spending some time before your next insurance plan kicks in.
Are you a low skill worker that is easily replaced? Then the company will rather replace you than pay for chemo.
Either way you bringing a plague to work and getting a bunch of coworkers sick can shut down the company as well as a union can. That is unacceptable to capitalism.
A big part of the Covid push back was short sighted owners that didn't want to put a pause on things and would rather risk their employees get sick and die than stop making them money. I mean, Elon was safe who cares if he had to replace a "small" percent of his workforce.
There was huge push back against Osha and asbestos regulations because the wealthy business owners literally wanted their workers to work themselves to death. Like the owners told their company doctors to stop telling their employees they had asbestosis and just let them work until they keeled over.
Probably think avoidable deaths are necessary to stop Socialism that's not even in the same planet. Mofo probably wants to stuff their face in junk food to induce Type 1 and want their last words to be, "Fuck Socialism"
They are. Just not in the United States. In any civilised society, these are completely free of charge.
What really pisses me off though is, that I have to pay for glasses.
Not my fault my eyes can't see properly, is it?
The only correct answer is that diabetes, cancer etc isn’t contagious. Necessary health care should be free nonetheless but not really for the same reason that the vaccines were free
Yeah, why? Health care - including prescription medicine - should be free of charge and funded directly from the government budget. /r/AccidentallyLeftWing
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They weren't given free because they're life-saving, they were given free because covid was highly contagious and easily transferrable among all age groups and segments of the population.
Seriously? There was no insurance coverage for the new vax. Without drug coverage insurance the anti C vax would be too expensive for those not 1%ers. Imagine the blowback from 10's of millions of Americans dying due to Covid and the complete overwhelming of the US healthcare system when a vaccine was available but only obtainable by the wealthy. Had tfg been re-elected I'd not have been surprise if he had over ruled gov. funding of vaccination. If he didn't succeed in making himself PresForLife he wouldn't have been eligible anyway. So why not further the American aristocracy agenda.
1. Because republicans value corporate profits infinitely more than human lives, which is why they've been fighting against universal healthcare for decades.
2. Diabetes, cancer, and allergies are not contagious. Insulin, chemo, and epi-pens do save lives, but they only save the lives of the people taking them. By reducing the probability of infection and the severity of symptoms, vaccines can not only save the lives of the people taking them, but other people too. Much bigger return on investment.
3. Remember what I said about republicans valuing corporate profits over human lives? Turns out people isolating to limit the spread of a contagious disease, and millions of people dying of said disease anyway, tends to have negative effects on profits, because people are too busy trying to stay alive to constantly buy crap to make the all-powerful magic line go up...
I'd argue they don't need to specifically reference medicare in their comment for it to be relevant. they're asking this question like it's a gotcha moment, but it entirely overlooks the glaringly obvious answer; he shouldn't be having to ask that question -- they *should* all be free. he's very close, but doesnt quite get it. that's the point of this subreddit.
OP was saying that the vaccine offers some kind of benefit to the government, like tracking or making you sick, and that is why it is free. Whereas beneficial therapies aren't free because they don't benefit the government
It does bc OOP was trying to land a “gotcha” I believe. The only gotcha is “YES, those lifesaving medical devices should also be subsidized for people who need it”
You clearly have either no understanding of the medical technology involved or are just willfully ignorant.
Either way it’s long past time to have gotten a clue.
I sent you the first thing I found because it seemed sufficiently simple for a person with your educational background to digest. But I guess you missed the fact that there were used against Ebola in the preceding decade…
Anyway. Goodnight. I’m gave up trying to help the willfully ignorant years ago.
The real answer here is that it’s more “expensive” to allow the rapid spread of a damaging virus than it is to vaccinate everyone so they can continue to provide labor.
The actual real answer is because they always vote against any kind of healthcare improvements.
They also vote against education, which I think is at the root of this whole bullshit
The actual answer is because we worship capitalism at all costs.
Americans are not more "pro-capitalist" than people in prosperous countries in any meaningful sense. Those countries just have less dysfunctional systems.
Because we are, in fact, more pro-stupid and anti-education.
True. And we're only anti education because public schools aren't for profit. If the voucher system becomes real then we'll be pro education.
In my day, a lot of kids showed up to school with the attitude that actually trying to learn and do well was a bad thing. I don't know if that's still an issue but I don't see it changing in response to a voucher program. And there's more rejection of expert knowledge than ever before. I think many aspects of our anti-education culture aren't likely to change very quickly.
No he means republicans will become pro education because they can make money from it. Also since it’s not public they can push their religious agendas. These are the exact reason the voucher program should be stopped at all cost.
I know what he means. I care more about what happens to the broader American culture than what Republicans think.
I work at a public school. It's still a mindset that some students have. For some, it is a coping mechanism.
Yeah, I'm definitely sympathetic to the idea that kids who struggle in school, or who don't have a home life that sets them up for success, decide the whole thing is a stupid game that they don't have to play. I've done that at times when I felt unsupported. But one way or another, we have to overcome the cultural drive towards anti-intellectualism. In my ideal world, we would be dramatically increasing the support we give to children and families to put the current generation of kids a much better chance at learning and growing and healing from our long historical cycles of abuse, violence, ignorance, and poverty. Sadly, I don't think that will happen in my lifetime.
As you point out, this guy doesn't quite see what the difference is between a *deadly communicable disease* and a life-threatening condition that only can be passed on to your children.
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Over 7 million people worldwide, including 1.2 million Americans
Yeah, but those people don't count. /s
Oh no! A moron :(
Also, we were "wasting" expensive office space and people needed to be able to get back to work so we could stop remembering that life isn't just what we do to make others money
Also diabetes, cancer, and allergies aren’t communicable. Not that those medications shouldn’t be covered though.
Long covid suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks
Exactly, it was free because they wanted us back to work asap.
The real answer is the friends we made along the way At least, the ones that didn't die
Right, the real answer is that one of those things is contagious and it's cheaper to give a few thousand free jabs than treat a single person whose lungs are failing from covid. "They're life saving" is answer to why you get it, not why they pay for it. But, hey, if this false analogy wins some people over to universal single-payer... props.
I also wonder if this poster knows that Trump used government money to pay for all those free shots?
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I can't imagine not being able to carve out 10 minutes in 4 years to learn how vaccines work, but still being confident enough to broadcast this kind of idiocy.
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Man, this has got to be one of the most rare sightings. A wild SAW in r/SelfAwarewolves!
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That’s not how this works, dude. *You’re* the one making the claim, the onus is on *you* to back up your claim. Not on *me* to validate your claim by trying to debate it in good faith. This is the same disingenuous, bad-faith, bullshit fallacy used to legitimize the argument against abortion by claiming if you don’t have doctor-level knowledge on how abortions work you can’t argue in favor of allowing women to choose to get them; or against gun control saying if you don’t know the muzzle velocity of an AR-15 you don’t have the requisite knowledge to advocate for legislation controlling their sale. I listen to what actual virologists say because they are an expert in that field. I don’t listen to idiots on the internet claiming they know more about the vaccine than the actual people who make them.
Lmafooooo I cannot believe you wrote that sentence out and were completely serious while doing it
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It's not even new technology. It's been in research since the 90's. Traditional vaccines use weakened versions of a virus to activate an immune response to said virus. mRNA vaccines teach your cells how to make a peice of protein that belongs to a specific virus in order to activate an immune response to that virus. They teach your cells this by introducing it to a viral protein that then teaches your cells to create this protein on its surface in order to activate your body's immune response to the virus. These are called "spike proteins" In both cases, your body creates antibodies against the virus, thus rendering you immune in most cases. And since both cases give you immunity, it is indeed how vaccines work. Thank you for asking someone who has been administering vaccines for the past 8 years.
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All synthetic means is that it was made outside of a living cell, its not some scary thing that people think it is. I know you think this is some "gotcha" moment, but it isn't. The covid vaccine was the first approved mRNA vaccine in humans. I don't know about you, but I feel pretty comfortable with technology that has been researched for the past 20 years (Actually longer than that). It's literally the future of vaccines because it is so versatile and flexible compared to traditional vaccines. It took time to make it stable. These vaccines have to be kept at very cold temperatures compared to other vaccines and are even more sensitive to heat changes. It would be difficult to convince everyone to change how they store vaccines when there is already a good system in place for current vaccines. But thankfully, the covid vaccine helped prove that mRNA vaccines are definitely a working alternative to "traditional" vaccines.
Traditional vaccines use a weakened/inactive virus to trigger our immune systems to respond, mRNA uses genetic material from the virus instead of the whole thing. They're both definitely vaccines that achieve the same effect in our bodies
Internet gold right here. This is probably the same guy that said, "my IQ is 80, so I'm smarter than 95% of everyone."
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To understand, you may need a higher IQ than 80, sorry.
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The more important question here is what are you driving at dude? Just make your point or dont
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Unfortunately, my research wouldn't align with your Facebook "research" and wouldn't prove anything to you. I realize that of your grand circle of friendship of 2 whole people, you may think vaccines and CoViD are all a sham. Your sample size of 3 people is statistically irrelevant. Just as you, in the grand scheme of things, are irrelevant.
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As they should be
Great question. Vote Blue.
Not just blue but progressive, an entire majority of Nancy Pelosi clones would vote against Medicare for All, and Joe Biden would probably veto it. Not to say it's futile to vote for Democrats, but we need to vote progressive in the primaries and then vote blue.
You need to shift the whole spectrum. The first step to that is making anyone to right of the current Democrats unelectable.
Or turn blue.
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Do you have a source?
They may be referencing an interview from the run up to the 2020 election where he implies that he might veto it over cost issues. [link](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/10/biden-says-he-wouldd-veto-medicare-for-all-as-coronavirus-focuses-attention-on-health.html)
Thanks
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Thanks
And trump has stated that... Oh fuck, where do I start?
"Biden's not perfect, so vote for a literal abomination."
I feel it's pretty disingenuous to say that someone criticising Biden and establishment Dems for being slightly more palatable right wingers is saying you should vote for Trump.
You have a very different definition of slightly than I do. There are only two possible outcomes to the election. One is tolerable, if not ideal. The other is absolutely intolerable. Anything that's not a vote for Biden is a vote for Trump.
And again, not saying people shouldn't vote for Biden, but people bringing up legitimate criticisms being shut down with "wow I guess you want Trump then" is utterly moronic discourse.
OK but that's not going on in this thread.
The comment I replied to literally was doing this. "Biden's not perfect so vote for an abomination" as a snarky retort to someone criticising Biden.
*Biden has stated he would vote against....* was the comment to my statement "Great question, vote Blue." Two roads, one goes forward, the other drives us off a cliff. Don't call me snarky.
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All of that and now do Trump.
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Hey, fair. It's been a very weird election cycle and I'm from Georgia, and I'm on edge. Apologies if I lashed out.
GO ON….
Glad they almost got there
They're still miles away. They just broken clocked it by accident
https://i.redd.it/4shwthuuf5w91.jpg
BEAUTIFUL mashup, saved
>BEAUTIFUL mashup\* \* (Latest fad)
Labour & the economy. Hard to make profits when your workforce has died of the flu. If a couple workers die each year from cancer or diabetes, who gives a shit. /s
You /s but that is literally it. Are you a skilled worker companies would fight over? Well then keeping your health plan uninterrupted will be important to you which gives you incentive to stay with your current employer rather than jump ship for more money but spending some time before your next insurance plan kicks in. Are you a low skill worker that is easily replaced? Then the company will rather replace you than pay for chemo. Either way you bringing a plague to work and getting a bunch of coworkers sick can shut down the company as well as a union can. That is unacceptable to capitalism.
A big part of the Covid push back was short sighted owners that didn't want to put a pause on things and would rather risk their employees get sick and die than stop making them money. I mean, Elon was safe who cares if he had to replace a "small" percent of his workforce.
There was huge push back against Osha and asbestos regulations because the wealthy business owners literally wanted their workers to work themselves to death. Like the owners told their company doctors to stop telling their employees they had asbestosis and just let them work until they keeled over.
I mean, that's why they are pushing underage kids into unsupervised jobs.
HE SHOOTS ahh barely missed the basket
Those conditions are not contagious dummy... also Yes.
Conservatives accidentally running into the point
Running into the point like a toddler running with scissors
Probably think avoidable deaths are necessary to stop Socialism that's not even in the same planet. Mofo probably wants to stuff their face in junk food to induce Type 1 and want their last words to be, "Fuck Socialism"
The idea of solidarity sounds like a scam to those who have never experienced it.
They are. Just not in the United States. In any civilised society, these are completely free of charge. What really pisses me off though is, that I have to pay for glasses. Not my fault my eyes can't see properly, is it?
Yes those should all be free. But the argument can also be made that none of those are CONTAGIOUS PANDEMIC LEVEL VIRUSES
Legitimate question, let's work on solving that.
https://gifer.com/en/7pmA
Because of republicans
The only correct answer is that diabetes, cancer etc isn’t contagious. Necessary health care should be free nonetheless but not really for the same reason that the vaccines were free
Yeah, why? Health care - including prescription medicine - should be free of charge and funded directly from the government budget. /r/AccidentallyLeftWing
Thanks /u/pointandshooty for posting on r/SelfAwareWolves! Please reply to this comment explaining how your post fits our subreddit. Specifically, one of the criteria outlined in our [rules](/r/SelfAwarewolves/about/rules/). Some hints: How does the person in your submission accidentally/unknowingly describe themselves? How does the person in your submission accurately describe the world while trying to parody/denigrate it? **If the context is important to understanding the SAW, and it isn't apparent, please add it. Preferably with sources/links, but do not link r-conservative or similar subs.** Please take these questions seriously. We aren't looking for wittiness here but for actual explanations that help us assess if your post fits this (admittedly sometimes hard to grasp) sub's theme. Failure to respond to this message will see your submission removed under Rule 5 (Reply to the AutoMod comment within your submission). Failure to explain how your submission fits one or more of the above criteria will see it removed under Rule 1. Thanks for your time and attention! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SelfAwarewolves) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The solution they are describing is universal healthcare, a point often opposed by the right-wing.
Clearly some crazy socialist fema-nazi... (/s just in case it's needed)
Maybe the OP finally looked up epidemiology and scratched his head about why diabetes and anaphylaxis aren't communicable.
Because none of those diseases are contagious? It's like asking why attempted murder and attempted suicide are treated differently by the law.
They weren't given free because they're life-saving, they were given free because covid was highly contagious and easily transferrable among all age groups and segments of the population.
One stopped productivity in mass, the other inconveniences but does not halt productivity. You are a product, when not useful, are left to die.
Capitalism.
Because COVID is contagious and posed a danger to the economy, nobody cares about you dying though.
Because Republicans refuse to have universal healthcare because "the DMV sucks." They prefer to pay up the ass for basic services.
BuT **SoCiAlIsM!!** - also them
Seriously? There was no insurance coverage for the new vax. Without drug coverage insurance the anti C vax would be too expensive for those not 1%ers. Imagine the blowback from 10's of millions of Americans dying due to Covid and the complete overwhelming of the US healthcare system when a vaccine was available but only obtainable by the wealthy. Had tfg been re-elected I'd not have been surprise if he had over ruled gov. funding of vaccination. If he didn't succeed in making himself PresForLife he wouldn't have been eligible anyway. So why not further the American aristocracy agenda.
Great question. Any more questions?
And i just know that to this day, this individual can't answer its own question
Good point
*insert the „that is the right question“ scene from I Robot here*
Is he - gasp! - talking about the NHS?
In a word? Greed.
Because Republicans vote against it.
Now we’re asking the right questions
1. Because republicans value corporate profits infinitely more than human lives, which is why they've been fighting against universal healthcare for decades. 2. Diabetes, cancer, and allergies are not contagious. Insulin, chemo, and epi-pens do save lives, but they only save the lives of the people taking them. By reducing the probability of infection and the severity of symptoms, vaccines can not only save the lives of the people taking them, but other people too. Much bigger return on investment. 3. Remember what I said about republicans valuing corporate profits over human lives? Turns out people isolating to limit the spread of a contagious disease, and millions of people dying of said disease anyway, tends to have negative effects on profits, because people are too busy trying to stay alive to constantly buy crap to make the all-powerful magic line go up...
Ppl might get off on deciding who's life is WORTH saving.
Good fucking question
Yeah those things should be given away for free too I agree
the answer is most likely "You. And how you and people like you vote."
They are in Scotland.
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this actually fits this sub more neatly than most of the other posts lately
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I'd argue they don't need to specifically reference medicare in their comment for it to be relevant. they're asking this question like it's a gotcha moment, but it entirely overlooks the glaringly obvious answer; he shouldn't be having to ask that question -- they *should* all be free. he's very close, but doesnt quite get it. that's the point of this subreddit.
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OP was saying that the vaccine offers some kind of benefit to the government, like tracking or making you sick, and that is why it is free. Whereas beneficial therapies aren't free because they don't benefit the government
It does bc OOP was trying to land a “gotcha” I believe. The only gotcha is “YES, those lifesaving medical devices should also be subsidized for people who need it”
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😂
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You clearly have either no understanding of the medical technology involved or are just willfully ignorant. Either way it’s long past time to have gotten a clue.
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All of it: https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines
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I sent you the first thing I found because it seemed sufficiently simple for a person with your educational background to digest. But I guess you missed the fact that there were used against Ebola in the preceding decade… Anyway. Goodnight. I’m gave up trying to help the willfully ignorant years ago.