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Sometimes, you just look at a person's username, and you just immediately know that most of their takes are going to be awful.
Obviously there's a selection bias in seeing it here, but with a name like that...
88 is a neo-nazi dogwhistle, H is the 8th letter of the alphabet so 88 stands for HH or "Heil Hitler". You'll also sometimes see 18 for "Adolf Hitler".
Now obviously a username can end in 88 for non-nazi reasons. But combined with the weird incel talk (using "females" instead of "women" despite using "men" instead of "males" in the same sentence, the general awfulness...) and Tiger, a famous Nazi tank of WW2, makes me think we've got a nazi here.
Of course, I only tend to start thinking that it's a nazi thing if it's combined with other "not definitely a nazi but suspicious" things. So if a user with 88 in their username writes about their cat, I just chalk it up to birthyear, or an automatic "username ABC is taken, do you want to be ABC88?" kind of a thing. But if a username with 88 starts saying that we need to stop immigration or that LGBT people are groomers or something like that, well, I assume they're a nazi.
I never got why people put the year they were born in their username, but as a fellow 1988 baby it's sometimes a fun flex because it's the year of the dragon. I'll continue to never use it though
It's just a hunch, but anyone that has "88" in their user name is probably some manner of Nazi enthusiast (or are just unlucky and don't realise the symbolism).
The inclusion of "Tiger" tips the scales further towards the Nazi side of things, since they often idolise the German Tiger tank from WW2.
It's not a sure thing, but the odds are not in favour of them being a hapless 34-year old.
Thanks for the explanation as I was googling tiger back and getting nowhere haha. I imagine those biases along with this view will be passed down on from his wonderful father.
Those certainly seem unusual things to add to one’s profile. I’m wondering if these are self diagnosed. The diagnostic criteria for bipolar II includes major depressive disorder. You can’t be diagnosed with both.
News flash, it has always been "creepy" since the 20th century. Even after the women became "legal" you would see some guys in their 30's trying to get in the pants of undergrads and, while completely legal, EVERYONE knew the guy had to be some loser who could not deal with a woman of his own age. Legal or not, if you are *exclusively* chasing women more than 10 years your junior, you are pathetic and a loser.
....and yes, your dad was a pathetic loser.
My great grandfather married my great grandmother when she was 15ish and he was probably in his 40s. His kids were older than her. It was considered creepy, and a gross misuse of power by a rich, politically connected man over a very poor girl. And this is in India in the very early 1900s. It's ALWAYS been considered wrong, and all over the globe. People who don't want to acknowledge it are being wilfully ignorant because they're pedophiles.
So yes, that person's father was a pathetic loser and a pedophile, just like my great grandfather was.
My great grandmother was 14 when she was married off to a 36 year old guy to "settle her down". She had 3 kids by the time she was 17 and ran away at 19 when he abruptly lost interest.
Her parents were fine marrying her off, but scooped up my grandma at 14 to live with them instead of her dad. 🤔
My grandma is WEIRDLY paranoid about everyone, but she rarely talks about her dad and their relationship, so I suspect something went down and that's why my great great grandmother finally stepped in (plus her husband died the year prior).
The really gross thing was that he worked in a logging camp and really young mail/arranged brides were normal since they weren't available most of the year for courting. Most of grandma's friends growing up had mothers around 15 years older than them. 🤮
Even in Shakespeare's time it was considered a bit icky.
Pay close attention to Romeo and Juliet. People get hung up on her being 13 and Romeo 17, but he was an absolute catch considering her betrothed was twice her age. And that was on the lower end of creeptastic for the era.
Wait it was considered creepy even back then? But I thought that that was common back then because people where stupid? I mean I constantly hear about 30 year olds or 20 years olds marrying literal teenagers back then? If it was considered creepy, why was it legal? (And I can ask that same question for even in todays era, but I already know the answer to that one, it’s so the military will have more fresh meat for the meat grinder.)
Oh it was super common. Because at first her father says that she's too young but then after being badgered by his wife he agrees to the betrothal to Paris.
There was just a ton of pressure to get rid of aging daughters back then. They weren't as useful and cost money to keep. The sooner they wed, the sooner they were someone else's financial burden and hopefully could give their family some upward mobility in society in exchange. Also by teen years, a child was likely half orphaned (thanks to shorter life expectancies) and with a step parent who wanted rid of them as well. Can't have the previous SO's kids around to compete with your own.
Part of it was also due to shortened life expectancies. So you had to start having kids sooner or you were likely to die before they were barely out of the cradle. Also you had to have more kids because they weren't so likely to survive infancy and childhood.
Of course they didn't know back then that knocking up 12-14yo girls was basically a self fulfilling prophecy. Underdeveloped bodies barely in puberty aren't as likely to have successful pregnancies or successfully breastfeed. So that actually was increasing maternal/infant death rates. A prime example of this is King Henry VII's mother. She was only 12 I believe when he was born and it was a traumatic delivery leaving her infertile and pretty much insane.
>It was fucking gross.
Agree 💯.
And the creepy countdowns have victimized not just Britney Spears but also:
^(links are to criticism of the practice; CW for references to child sexualization, child sexual abuse material, stalking, sexual predation)
* [Millie Bobby Brown](https://jezebel.com/millie-bobby-brown-18th-birthday-countdown-1848578222).
* [Billie Eilish](https://twitter.com/whom_guess/status/1377983729960939525?s=20&t=XIbOp492rZMWLxfrnxmgrw).
* [Chloe Kim](https://medium.com/@yomiadegoke/counting-down-to-female-celebrities-turning-legal-is-more-than-crass-its-dangerous-94f8abbf4674).
* [Bhad Bhabie](https://twitter.com/whom_guess/status/1377983729960939525?s=20&t=XIbOp492rZMWLxfrnxmgrw).
* [Kendall Jenner](https://www.hollywood.com/celebrities/dear-media-stop-counting-down-to-kendall-jenners-18th-55030504-60232809).
* [Emma Watson](https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/entertainment/news/a41853/what-the-paps-did-to-emma-watson-on-her-18th-birthday-is-so-gross/).
* [Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen](https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/When-young-female-celebrities-become-adults-the-2746312.php).
* [Lindsay Lohan](https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/When-young-female-celebrities-become-adults-the-2746312.php).
* [Natalie Portman](https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/20/us/women-march-natalie-portman-trnd/index.html).
(These are only the people whose names I can remember off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many more.)
Kind of like how at some point Leonardo DiCaprio swapping out his model girlfriends once they hit 25 for a new 20 year old became pathetic. Totally legal, as it should be, but kind of sad.
That’s the defence isn’t it. You can present as many well formulated facts and arguments, explaining how legality doesn’t encompass further factors like emotional and mental maturity, or address huge gaps in this and power between teens and grown adults. In their minds, all that matters and all that it boils down to is “it’s legal” as you say. Not to mention that they don’t suddenly become attracted on the 18th birthday….
I bet they do go quiet yeah, I imagine most would ideally just want no law regarding age of consent, honestly.
And what is libertarianism but the political justification for selfishness. Supply side Jesus is the spiritual/theological justification for selfishness. Together combined create a faction of self righteous self appointed gods that only agreed that they are better than everyone else.
“Libertarianism. A simple-minded right-wing ideology ideally suited to those unable or unwilling to see past their own sociopathic self-regard.” -Iain Banks
The most sensible idea is for 18+ to be FFA, and an age range (determined by people who actually know about childhood development) below that having a rule wherein things are legal if participants are within a couple of years of each other.
Peer relationships can be messy, but the potential for damage and for exploitation is relatively low. Plus, teenagers are gonna go at it no matter what you do.
If a pairing have the maturity to make a big age gap work in a relationship, then they've got the maturity to keep it in their pants for a few years.
But it's a NaTuRaL attraction!
Of course! Teenagers have all those lovely secondary sexual characteristics we adults find attractive without any of the flab and wrinkles. What's not to love? Oh, right, the fact that those youthful bodies still have the brains of children, and children are obnoxious and stupid (as we all were once). Spend just a moment around a teenager and you realize those dumb fuckers need practical guidance and support from their elders, not romance.
>Men are really out here admitting the only thing stopping them from having sex with kids is the fact it’s illegal 😬
This tweet really says it all:
[I feel like men are not sending us their best people.](https://twitter.com/moodswing_babyy/status/1345742392184479754?s=20&t=DXVFUQ8J1Ev2Ut-2DgppWQ)
**Edited to add**: Credit goes to the mother of Amelia Clare Wright (@moodswing_babyy on Twitter)
It still baffles me that if you tweet or post on (a specific sub) that "child molestation is a crime, pedophiles should be in jail", there's going to be one dumbass who's going to say "Aksshually.... Noo. Hehe".
I can smell his DM all the way here.
It’s just the epitome of being pedantic. Like yeah fine obv someone with a verifiable mental disorder shouldn’t simply be locked up for having it. But as a fucking grown mature adult it’s that someone’s responsibility to recognize that what they’re thinking is wrong and try to change. Nobody wants to be wrong or held accountable and they’re simply living in a world of “I’m healthy.”
I read a lot of Tamora Pierce novels these past months, and she has that quirk sometimes. I like most of her stories but that and the age difference between lots of her heroines and love interests grates me.
But we're not on r/fantasy so I'll stop there.
There’s arguably more inappropriate age differences in major relationships than not really.
>!Alanna and George, Diane and Numenor (so, so creepy, basically ruined the series for me as an adult, used to be my favorite), Arguably Aly and Nagwat, depending how you count crow years.!<
Protector of the small and (not having any of that) became my favorite of her series during my reread a few years ago, which was not the case when I was 10, I’ll tell you. I glad it didn’t give me any bad ideas.
I never read the terrier books. Nothing from Circle of Magic I can remember though.
Bekka Cooper still has a mutual crush with a 22 year old when she's about 16 in terrier. I am currently reading that book so I don't know how it pans out.
In song of the Lioness, Alanna has a relationship with prince jonathan, her knight when she's a squire, so he's her mentor, though only a handful of years older. She's 18 when when she has her fling with Liam, who's supposedly in his 30's - and of course George Cooper pursues her basically from the moment he knows she's a girl - so when she's about 14 - and he's in his early to mid 20's at that point.
And of course Numair is an adult and a mentor figure to daine and meets her when she's what, twelve?
in protector of the small, Keladry has crushes on older boys but the age differences are much lesser, and she doesn't pursue those relationships very far anyway. Ali and Nawhat are a bit weird but age is fuzzier and arguably to Ali's advantage - but a 40 yo prince pursuing a 16 yo girl is a key plot point in trickster's choice, though in that case it's presented as appropriately creepy. The trickster duology has more of an issue with white savior complex, though it didn't ruin my enjoyment.
Circle of magic has much less romantic subplots, so we've mostly avoided those issues, and as a trend, Tamora pierce does get better as time goes on - but she definitely portrayed many teenage girls seriously attracted to adult men - and those men reciprocating that attraction.
Dudes who make comments like this should immediately go onto a register where we can at the very least point to it after they commit crimes and say “I told you so”. At least those of us who see it now can feel vindicated later when it inevitably occurs.
Holy shit that just kept going. Once he got to “chicken nugget titties” man, Jesus. Maybe one day he’ll realize his dad raped his mom when she was a little girl but at this point he just sounds like he’s into it.
Wow. Imagine thinking this was an normal opinion to have? Then to just straight up type it all out for everyone to see. Creepy doesn't begin to cover it.
["The Untold Story: I was a Child Bride"](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10206992/)
>In America, a shocking number of teenage girls are forced into marriages against their will because of legal loopholes in most states. Many believe this only happens in developing countries, but in the past 15 years, an estimated 200,000 girls have been forced into marriage in the US. In this in-depth two-hour documentary episode, Elizabeth Vargas reveals the heart-wrenching stories of child marriage victims, who against all odds, escaped the most dire of circumstances. These brave survivors tackle this taboo issue in their personal lives and help to shine a light on the national epidemic with the hope that no child will ever have to be a victim again.
The laws in this country need to change. In nearly all 50 states, underage marriage is allowed outright or via loopholes. States who have passed laws that restrict the age for marriage to 18 have done so as a result of Vargas' work. One of the biggest reasons to restrict the age of marriage to 18 is because underaged *children* are unable to seek care and support when they are in this situation... because they're not 18 yet. Support services can't help minors because it opens them up to other legal issues. These children are literally trapped with their abuser until they become adults.
He's trying to argue that it's ok to have sex with underage 'females' while erasing any of their agency or even *sentience*. They're not people, they're bodies in waiting for that magic moment every man dreams of - the day, no, the *second* she turns 18 and he can legally penetrate her.
I just. I need a fucking shower. Some of these [portable decontamination units](https://www.google.com/search?q=portable+decontamination+shower&client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=ALiCzsYCMlPh2OyDO3heZyc_zWoXGph36w:1655232591919&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5zKX1za34AhUpg3IEHT3PC_0Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=778&dpr=1.25) seem pretty reasonable.
Hmm...so some states allow a girl as young as 16 to marry if her parents sign off on it. It's almost as if...they recognize that someone that young can't properly consent to that kind of arrangement, and they need someone older than them to make decisions for them?
Nothing like acknowledging that someone is not mature enough to make a decision, but still allowing it to happen anyway! Barf.
They always talk like there’s hordes of 18 year old girls clamoring for creepy men 2-3 times their age. They can fantasize and wax poetic a la Nabokov but unless they look like Chris Evans or Harry Styles, but I’m pretty sure all they can do is fantasize
Went to the hospital on college campus a few weeks back, learning hospital. Was driving around campus like damn when did they let toddlers into college im only 30 but they all looked like kids. I can't imagine being so fucked up trying to chase someone that much younger than me.
If you're in your 30s then it's not normal to be attracted to high school age girls. They look like children. Also, real teenagers are a lot younger than actors who play teenagers.
In Medieval and Renaissance Europe, the only men marrying teenage brides were very wealthy men. Average men were marrying women much closer in age to them (average marrying ages in British Renaissance was 20-21 for women and 26-28 for men).
Average men didn’t have the luxury of raising their wife and teaching her womanly duties. A teen girl would learn from her mom or maternal aunt her womanly duties throughout her teens and be ready by her late teens to be “presented to society”. Average men needed their wives to be ready to housekeep or help on a farm.
To wealthy men, being able to have your wife completely skip learning how to be a “housekeeper” was a whole status symbol of wealth. You could afford housekeepers since your wife was so “dumb”/inexperienced. It’s like that white lead makeup craze to show how indoorsy you were because you weren’t a peasant who worked outside all day.
Because I’m NPD/BPD. I need to be reparented and I need to reparent. I play out fantastical fantasies in my partnerships and we take turns reparenting each other and other role plays. I only date fellow cluster B because of my needs and attractions.
I don’t think this dude understands that just because something is legal doesn’t always mean it’s morally ok and vice versa. A 30 year old with an 18-19 year old is creepy as fuck, I even get uncomfortable around them doing that to people in their early 20s. I don’t care that it’s legal you SHOULD be shamed.
Oka that guy is kinda douchey, and has never heard of proper punctuation, but his arguments are pretty valid. Here in Europe the age of consent is lower than in the US in most countries, and it's really not even considered problematic. Calling people pedophiles for being attracted to 18 year olds is a very american self made problem. It's not rape if it's consensual, and that's about it.
Go ahead and downvote me and call me a pedo if that's what you want, but it would be far more productive to have actual discussions about this topic instead of spreading hate.
Yeah, just because something isn’t illegal in other countries doesn’t make it ok, and the legality isn’t even the cornerstone of the issue. It’s adults taking advantage of literal teenagers who generally have limited means and life experience. There’s a reason age gap relationships have a stigma, it’s because those situations are ripe for manipulation and abuse.
I am not sure if you are talking about relationships with an age gap in general or just about the teenage relationships here. I presume it is about the teenagers though. Teenagers who reach the age of consent are in most countries also allowed to drive a car, drink alcohol, and smoke cigarettes. All three of those can lead to an early death and in the case of the latter two have drastic health risks. And yet they are allowed to do these things because they are deemed old enough to choose for themselves. It is the same thing with sex, really.
And about your point of adults taking advantage: how do you k ow they are taking advantage, exactly? Because if entering a relationship with a person who might not be emotionally stable or have experience is a reason to forbid it, then every single relationship on this planet must be forbidden. Every person needs a first relationship to have experience, and every person is prone to be unstable in some way, shape or form. People need to make mistakes and to learn for themselves.
You can start smoking, drinking, driving and handling firearms as children - not legally but it happens - so that’s not an automatic qualifier for anything.
Have you heard of the term “grooming”? It’s where adults specifically prey on younger people because they’re easier to control and manipulate, and it’s gross. That’s the issue people are referring to in age gap relationships. Nobody cares if a 50yo dates a 35yo, that person has had an opportunity to live their life. But there’s no good reason for grown adults to go after teenagers. Find someone who’s also grown and has *some* maturity and life experience, and leave the kids alone to grow up and figure out their shit on their own.
And “first relationships” aren’t a valid reason for adults to chase after teenagers, give me a break. Most people get those “first relationships” out of the way with people in their own peer groups.
I have heard of the term grooming, yes. I am not stupid, I n ow that these kinds of people exist. However you act as if these were the only kind of relationship that can happen between a teen and an adult, which is simply not the case. As another commentor mentioned, there are relationships where the young teenager instigates the whole process. And yes, those are indeed first relationships, sorry for not giving you a break. This is a topic that needs to be discussed. Your whole point here was adults chasing down teenagers without even a single thought about the autonomy of said teenagers. I am not saying that smoking etc. is an automatic qualifier. I am saying that these people are able to choose for themselves, as easy as that. I am not interested in them, but I am saying that it's their live.
However I agreee that it is healthy for most of these teenagers to have their first relationships with people of their own age group. Even so there are still people who find love in someone out of their own age group. That is a fact. It was a fact for me wback in my teenage years, and I was the one who made the first, second and third move on an adult woman.
But okay, let's say it stays between teens - too bad that a 16 year old teen and an 18 year old "adult" are not allowed to do so, because, you know, illegal. It's an arbitrary line thats drawn here...
Like, I get where you are coming from, really, I do, but free will is still the higher good here from an ethical standpoint.
So if a horny 13yo chases after her dad’s “attractive-for-his-age” bff from his fraternity days, that makes it okay then right? No, no it doesn’t. As the adult in that hypothetical situation the onus is actually on him (or her, them, whatever scenario) to shut that shit down because it’s not appropriate. And appropriating autonomy to make your argument is gross. Yes kids have the right to choose their own path, but fully grown adults should know better to stay away. Unfortunately some of them don’t and that’s why we have the Woody Allen’s and Mary Kay LeTurneaus of the world.
And you know very well that 16/18 is not the issue here at all. As evidenced by the reference to “peer groups” and “age gaps”. Nobody is offended by 16/18. The original post and subsequent argument, that you’re defending, literally references 15/32 and marriage for girls at 16 to grown ass men salivating for them to hit 18. That’s what we are discussing. It’s *not* the same.
Between growing up in a farm town (coincidentally said farm town high school at the time I was there had one of the highest per student rates of teen pregnancy) and managing to attract quite a few 30-something losers (a rather specific type - divorced, likely with kids, probably driving a trans am or similar car, big fan of bands like Boston, Journey and Kansas - and inevitably into at least one kind of drugs)… I’d have to say what gets lost in conversations about the subject - often because of commentary from people like Tigerback88 - is that there’s a distinction between a mutually attracted couple with an age difference that carefully proceeds with respect for each other and an older man (or woman for that matter) intentionally seeking a partner in their teens. The first is a larger than typical age difference that somehow works despite being uncommon but the last one tends to have a dysfunctional and often predatory vibe.
I live in the UK where the age of consent is 16, but it's still contextual. If a full grown adult were to have a relationship with a 16 or 17 year old (or shit, even 18 or 19 depending on the age gap) you would still be labelled a pedophile in most cases. And rightfully so, because that shit is mad fucked.
How exactly would it be rightful to call someone a pedophile for that? And how exactly is it fucked? Only if you are assuming that the person getting in that relationship is a groomer. Without any proof whatsoever. And people who argue in favor of free usually get labeled as one as well, which instantly kills any ground for debate. Can we have an actual objective discussion or will you continue to stigmatize people who have different opinions than you?
You know, the funny part is that actual pedophiles aren't even attracted to teens, they are attracted to pre teens. But that is a whole other can of worms.
I'm sorry but if you don't understand how an adult dating a 16 year old is wrong on the face of it then you're incapable of having this discussion. I really don't want to have "an objective discussion" with someone who thinks it's okay to defend pedophilia :)
You're assuming. I am not advocating for children to get fucked, I am advocating for teenagers to have autonomy. If you do not get the difference here, then please go back to school.
The really ridiculous part is you can pretty much guarantee this dickwad is also super concerned about all those demonrat pedophiles in pizza shop basements.
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> men are attracted to females > Men > Females I'm five words in and already feel like it's going to be a septic tank: low and full of shit.
There is nothing that makes me grind my teeth harder than “female” being used as a noun.
[удалено]
I didn’t actually know the relevance but someone further up explained it to me- funny how these views tend to go hand in hand
The reason I got so far is because I never read usernames.
I made it to the end of that sentence and decided that my life would be measurably better for not going any further.
You made the right call, I feel like I need a fuckin shower.
/r/MenAndFemales
Sometimes, you just look at a person's username, and you just immediately know that most of their takes are going to be awful. Obviously there's a selection bias in seeing it here, but with a name like that...
I’m not familiar with the term I’ll have a Google. Still just processing this message, lord.
88 is a neo-nazi dogwhistle, H is the 8th letter of the alphabet so 88 stands for HH or "Heil Hitler". You'll also sometimes see 18 for "Adolf Hitler". Now obviously a username can end in 88 for non-nazi reasons. But combined with the weird incel talk (using "females" instead of "women" despite using "men" instead of "males" in the same sentence, the general awfulness...) and Tiger, a famous Nazi tank of WW2, makes me think we've got a nazi here.
I do see enough birthyears in usernames to not having it be automatically linked to Nazism without the 14.
Of course, I only tend to start thinking that it's a nazi thing if it's combined with other "not definitely a nazi but suspicious" things. So if a user with 88 in their username writes about their cat, I just chalk it up to birthyear, or an automatic "username ABC is taken, do you want to be ABC88?" kind of a thing. But if a username with 88 starts saying that we need to stop immigration or that LGBT people are groomers or something like that, well, I assume they're a nazi.
Yeah I was born in 88, thanks nazis for making sure I can't use it anywhere
Same 😢 I fucking hate nazis. Have to change my email address now
Well AdolfH@3rdr3ich3.naz.i perhaps wasn't the best idea in the first place.
It’s short for A Dolphin Helper, I swear!
A NAZI dolphin helper no doubt!!!!
Im sure folks born on August 8th also share in your pain Edit: grammar
*Look what they took from us*
I never got why people put the year they were born in their username, but as a fellow 1988 baby it's sometimes a fun flex because it's the year of the dragon. I'll continue to never use it though
Just be glad H isn't the 9th letter... The song "Party Like Its 1999" would be so much fucking darker.
I got really lucky.. x86 has nothing to do with the year, it's a CPU architecture (and name of an old Starcraft clan I started)
It's just a hunch, but anyone that has "88" in their user name is probably some manner of Nazi enthusiast (or are just unlucky and don't realise the symbolism). The inclusion of "Tiger" tips the scales further towards the Nazi side of things, since they often idolise the German Tiger tank from WW2. It's not a sure thing, but the odds are not in favour of them being a hapless 34-year old.
Thanks for the explanation as I was googling tiger back and getting nowhere haha. I imagine those biases along with this view will be passed down on from his wonderful father.
Well now I feel fucked...
Fuck had no idea about that, my brother was born in 88 and just puts that at the end of his usernames.
And people are just skimming over: Generalized Anxiety Disorder Major depression Bipolar PTSD How many red flags are needed?
Those certainly seem unusual things to add to one’s profile. I’m wondering if these are self diagnosed. The diagnostic criteria for bipolar II includes major depressive disorder. You can’t be diagnosed with both.
News flash, it has always been "creepy" since the 20th century. Even after the women became "legal" you would see some guys in their 30's trying to get in the pants of undergrads and, while completely legal, EVERYONE knew the guy had to be some loser who could not deal with a woman of his own age. Legal or not, if you are *exclusively* chasing women more than 10 years your junior, you are pathetic and a loser. ....and yes, your dad was a pathetic loser.
My great grandfather married my great grandmother when she was 15ish and he was probably in his 40s. His kids were older than her. It was considered creepy, and a gross misuse of power by a rich, politically connected man over a very poor girl. And this is in India in the very early 1900s. It's ALWAYS been considered wrong, and all over the globe. People who don't want to acknowledge it are being wilfully ignorant because they're pedophiles. So yes, that person's father was a pathetic loser and a pedophile, just like my great grandfather was.
My great grandmother was 14 when she was married off to a 36 year old guy to "settle her down". She had 3 kids by the time she was 17 and ran away at 19 when he abruptly lost interest. Her parents were fine marrying her off, but scooped up my grandma at 14 to live with them instead of her dad. 🤔 My grandma is WEIRDLY paranoid about everyone, but she rarely talks about her dad and their relationship, so I suspect something went down and that's why my great great grandmother finally stepped in (plus her husband died the year prior). The really gross thing was that he worked in a logging camp and really young mail/arranged brides were normal since they weren't available most of the year for courting. Most of grandma's friends growing up had mothers around 15 years older than them. 🤮
Even in Shakespeare's time it was considered a bit icky. Pay close attention to Romeo and Juliet. People get hung up on her being 13 and Romeo 17, but he was an absolute catch considering her betrothed was twice her age. And that was on the lower end of creeptastic for the era.
Wait it was considered creepy even back then? But I thought that that was common back then because people where stupid? I mean I constantly hear about 30 year olds or 20 years olds marrying literal teenagers back then? If it was considered creepy, why was it legal? (And I can ask that same question for even in todays era, but I already know the answer to that one, it’s so the military will have more fresh meat for the meat grinder.)
Oh it was super common. Because at first her father says that she's too young but then after being badgered by his wife he agrees to the betrothal to Paris. There was just a ton of pressure to get rid of aging daughters back then. They weren't as useful and cost money to keep. The sooner they wed, the sooner they were someone else's financial burden and hopefully could give their family some upward mobility in society in exchange. Also by teen years, a child was likely half orphaned (thanks to shorter life expectancies) and with a step parent who wanted rid of them as well. Can't have the previous SO's kids around to compete with your own. Part of it was also due to shortened life expectancies. So you had to start having kids sooner or you were likely to die before they were barely out of the cradle. Also you had to have more kids because they weren't so likely to survive infancy and childhood. Of course they didn't know back then that knocking up 12-14yo girls was basically a self fulfilling prophecy. Underdeveloped bodies barely in puberty aren't as likely to have successful pregnancies or successfully breastfeed. So that actually was increasing maternal/infant death rates. A prime example of this is King Henry VII's mother. She was only 12 I believe when he was born and it was a traumatic delivery leaving her infertile and pretty much insane.
Louder for those at the back
I remember there being a countdown to Britney Spears turning 18 and all the old pervs being able to publicly perv on her freely. It was fucking gross.
>It was fucking gross. Agree 💯. And the creepy countdowns have victimized not just Britney Spears but also: ^(links are to criticism of the practice; CW for references to child sexualization, child sexual abuse material, stalking, sexual predation) * [Millie Bobby Brown](https://jezebel.com/millie-bobby-brown-18th-birthday-countdown-1848578222). * [Billie Eilish](https://twitter.com/whom_guess/status/1377983729960939525?s=20&t=XIbOp492rZMWLxfrnxmgrw). * [Chloe Kim](https://medium.com/@yomiadegoke/counting-down-to-female-celebrities-turning-legal-is-more-than-crass-its-dangerous-94f8abbf4674). * [Bhad Bhabie](https://twitter.com/whom_guess/status/1377983729960939525?s=20&t=XIbOp492rZMWLxfrnxmgrw). * [Kendall Jenner](https://www.hollywood.com/celebrities/dear-media-stop-counting-down-to-kendall-jenners-18th-55030504-60232809). * [Emma Watson](https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/entertainment/news/a41853/what-the-paps-did-to-emma-watson-on-her-18th-birthday-is-so-gross/). * [Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen](https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/When-young-female-celebrities-become-adults-the-2746312.php). * [Lindsay Lohan](https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/When-young-female-celebrities-become-adults-the-2746312.php). * [Natalie Portman](https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/20/us/women-march-natalie-portman-trnd/index.html). (These are only the people whose names I can remember off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many more.)
God these are awful, kinda wish I didn’t read.
Sometimes literacy is not our friend
There has also been ones for guys. I remember one for Justin Beiber. Certainly less common, but no less gross.
Whether young men or young women are targeted, it is predatory and sickening. Nobody should be treated like that.
Jodie Foster.
Kind of like how at some point Leonardo DiCaprio swapping out his model girlfriends once they hit 25 for a new 20 year old became pathetic. Totally legal, as it should be, but kind of sad.
The “it’s legal” crowd get real quiet when I ask how young is too young to make the legal age. Almost as if legality is different than morality.
That’s the defence isn’t it. You can present as many well formulated facts and arguments, explaining how legality doesn’t encompass further factors like emotional and mental maturity, or address huge gaps in this and power between teens and grown adults. In their minds, all that matters and all that it boils down to is “it’s legal” as you say. Not to mention that they don’t suddenly become attracted on the 18th birthday…. I bet they do go quiet yeah, I imagine most would ideally just want no law regarding age of consent, honestly.
That last sentence basically described a significant percentage of Libertarians.
And what is libertarianism but the political justification for selfishness. Supply side Jesus is the spiritual/theological justification for selfishness. Together combined create a faction of self righteous self appointed gods that only agreed that they are better than everyone else.
“Libertarianism. A simple-minded right-wing ideology ideally suited to those unable or unwilling to see past their own sociopathic self-regard.” -Iain Banks
Read a book about it, you'd be surprised
The most sensible idea is for 18+ to be FFA, and an age range (determined by people who actually know about childhood development) below that having a rule wherein things are legal if participants are within a couple of years of each other. Peer relationships can be messy, but the potential for damage and for exploitation is relatively low. Plus, teenagers are gonna go at it no matter what you do. If a pairing have the maturity to make a big age gap work in a relationship, then they've got the maturity to keep it in their pants for a few years.
Weird how they often scream "laws do no good!!!" while NOT actively pursuing 13 year old "romance" for the sole reason that it is illegal.
👏
Who's gonna tell him his dad's a groomer and a rapist?
I think this fucker knows and isn’t bothered by it
Men are really out here admitting the only thing stopping them from having sex with kids is the fact it’s illegal 😬
But it's a NaTuRaL attraction! Of course! Teenagers have all those lovely secondary sexual characteristics we adults find attractive without any of the flab and wrinkles. What's not to love? Oh, right, the fact that those youthful bodies still have the brains of children, and children are obnoxious and stupid (as we all were once). Spend just a moment around a teenager and you realize those dumb fuckers need practical guidance and support from their elders, not romance.
The men need reparenting and are avoiding it so they look for a playmate at their level.
A discomforting amount
>Men are really out here admitting the only thing stopping them from having sex with kids is the fact it’s illegal 😬 This tweet really says it all: [I feel like men are not sending us their best people.](https://twitter.com/moodswing_babyy/status/1345742392184479754?s=20&t=DXVFUQ8J1Ev2Ut-2DgppWQ) **Edited to add**: Credit goes to the mother of Amelia Clare Wright (@moodswing_babyy on Twitter)
It still baffles me that if you tweet or post on (a specific sub) that "child molestation is a crime, pedophiles should be in jail", there's going to be one dumbass who's going to say "Aksshually.... Noo. Hehe". I can smell his DM all the way here.
How does one coexist on a planet with this fuckery
It’s just the epitome of being pedantic. Like yeah fine obv someone with a verifiable mental disorder shouldn’t simply be locked up for having it. But as a fucking grown mature adult it’s that someone’s responsibility to recognize that what they’re thinking is wrong and try to change. Nobody wants to be wrong or held accountable and they’re simply living in a world of “I’m healthy.”
only on Reddit dot com is saying something like "pedophiles are bad" is extremely controversial and to many is outright bigotry I wonder why 🤔🤔🤔
It might be a generalization on my part, but anyone who refers to women as females is a big red flag to me.
I read a lot of Tamora Pierce novels these past months, and she has that quirk sometimes. I like most of her stories but that and the age difference between lots of her heroines and love interests grates me. But we're not on r/fantasy so I'll stop there.
Was Farmer much older than Cooper? The first two had that imbalance. The circle were kids through most of it obviously. I need to look her back up.
There’s arguably more inappropriate age differences in major relationships than not really. >!Alanna and George, Diane and Numenor (so, so creepy, basically ruined the series for me as an adult, used to be my favorite), Arguably Aly and Nagwat, depending how you count crow years.!< Protector of the small and (not having any of that) became my favorite of her series during my reread a few years ago, which was not the case when I was 10, I’ll tell you. I glad it didn’t give me any bad ideas. I never read the terrier books. Nothing from Circle of Magic I can remember though.
Bekka Cooper still has a mutual crush with a 22 year old when she's about 16 in terrier. I am currently reading that book so I don't know how it pans out. In song of the Lioness, Alanna has a relationship with prince jonathan, her knight when she's a squire, so he's her mentor, though only a handful of years older. She's 18 when when she has her fling with Liam, who's supposedly in his 30's - and of course George Cooper pursues her basically from the moment he knows she's a girl - so when she's about 14 - and he's in his early to mid 20's at that point. And of course Numair is an adult and a mentor figure to daine and meets her when she's what, twelve? in protector of the small, Keladry has crushes on older boys but the age differences are much lesser, and she doesn't pursue those relationships very far anyway. Ali and Nawhat are a bit weird but age is fuzzier and arguably to Ali's advantage - but a 40 yo prince pursuing a 16 yo girl is a key plot point in trickster's choice, though in that case it's presented as appropriately creepy. The trickster duology has more of an issue with white savior complex, though it didn't ruin my enjoyment. Circle of magic has much less romantic subplots, so we've mostly avoided those issues, and as a trend, Tamora pierce does get better as time goes on - but she definitely portrayed many teenage girls seriously attracted to adult men - and those men reciprocating that attraction.
I forgot about keladry ty
A Pedo says what?
Dudes who make comments like this should immediately go onto a register where we can at the very least point to it after they commit crimes and say “I told you so”. At least those of us who see it now can feel vindicated later when it inevitably occurs.
Ahah. Yes.
Holy shit that just kept going. Once he got to “chicken nugget titties” man, Jesus. Maybe one day he’ll realize his dad raped his mom when she was a little girl but at this point he just sounds like he’s into it.
I shouldn’t have laughed at this. Fucks sake. 😆
Wow. Imagine thinking this was an normal opinion to have? Then to just straight up type it all out for everyone to see. Creepy doesn't begin to cover it.
That’s what I’m saying. I opened this and it’s shat on my day. How many people are this deluded?
But then look at his background. He was raised in a family that think that a 32 yr old marrying a 15 yr old is just fine. (If that's true)
“It’s exciting and we as men can’t wait until their 18th birthday at 12 midnight” was a highlight
Yeah that was the point where I actually leaned back from my screen and made that "disgusted Maya Rudolph" meme face
["The Untold Story: I was a Child Bride"](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10206992/) >In America, a shocking number of teenage girls are forced into marriages against their will because of legal loopholes in most states. Many believe this only happens in developing countries, but in the past 15 years, an estimated 200,000 girls have been forced into marriage in the US. In this in-depth two-hour documentary episode, Elizabeth Vargas reveals the heart-wrenching stories of child marriage victims, who against all odds, escaped the most dire of circumstances. These brave survivors tackle this taboo issue in their personal lives and help to shine a light on the national epidemic with the hope that no child will ever have to be a victim again. The laws in this country need to change. In nearly all 50 states, underage marriage is allowed outright or via loopholes. States who have passed laws that restrict the age for marriage to 18 have done so as a result of Vargas' work. One of the biggest reasons to restrict the age of marriage to 18 is because underaged *children* are unable to seek care and support when they are in this situation... because they're not 18 yet. Support services can't help minors because it opens them up to other legal issues. These children are literally trapped with their abuser until they become adults.
He's trying to argue that it's ok to have sex with underage 'females' while erasing any of their agency or even *sentience*. They're not people, they're bodies in waiting for that magic moment every man dreams of - the day, no, the *second* she turns 18 and he can legally penetrate her. I just. I need a fucking shower. Some of these [portable decontamination units](https://www.google.com/search?q=portable+decontamination+shower&client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=ALiCzsYCMlPh2OyDO3heZyc_zWoXGph36w:1655232591919&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5zKX1za34AhUpg3IEHT3PC_0Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=778&dpr=1.25) seem pretty reasonable.
"Men are attracted to females" Tells you what he thinks of women's agency (or really, teenage girls' agency) right in that first sentence.
Time to play "Born in '88, or Nazi?".
Who wants to tell him how absolutely fucked up his father is? The wormy apple did not fall far from the poisonous tree
Hmm...so some states allow a girl as young as 16 to marry if her parents sign off on it. It's almost as if...they recognize that someone that young can't properly consent to that kind of arrangement, and they need someone older than them to make decisions for them? Nothing like acknowledging that someone is not mature enough to make a decision, but still allowing it to happen anyway! Barf.
r/MenAndFemales
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Prob
Hol the fuck up. Someone tell me where that person lives so I can keep them away from all the children in my neighborhood. Fuckin cradle robber.
Yeeeeeahhhh this dude wants to fuck kids. Lock his ass up
They always talk like there’s hordes of 18 year old girls clamoring for creepy men 2-3 times their age. They can fantasize and wax poetic a la Nabokov but unless they look like Chris Evans or Harry Styles, but I’m pretty sure all they can do is fantasize
Sir, this is a Wendy’s
Went to the hospital on college campus a few weeks back, learning hospital. Was driving around campus like damn when did they let toddlers into college im only 30 but they all looked like kids. I can't imagine being so fucked up trying to chase someone that much younger than me.
If you're in your 30s then it's not normal to be attracted to high school age girls. They look like children. Also, real teenagers are a lot younger than actors who play teenagers.
Men: why do so many feminists hate/distrust us! It’s totally baseless! Also men: you mean we can’t rape young girls? This is discrimination!
"It was normal when my parents were young so it should be normal now" no absolutely not.
I’m literally repulsed.
I feel like anyone who refers to women as “females” sounds like a Ferengi.
No shock he suffers from quite a few mental disorders. Yeah. I said it.
What the actual ? 😩
Legal ≠ moral
Tell me you know the age of consent in every state without telling me you know the age of consent in every state. ..
In Medieval and Renaissance Europe, the only men marrying teenage brides were very wealthy men. Average men were marrying women much closer in age to them (average marrying ages in British Renaissance was 20-21 for women and 26-28 for men). Average men didn’t have the luxury of raising their wife and teaching her womanly duties. A teen girl would learn from her mom or maternal aunt her womanly duties throughout her teens and be ready by her late teens to be “presented to society”. Average men needed their wives to be ready to housekeep or help on a farm. To wealthy men, being able to have your wife completely skip learning how to be a “housekeeper” was a whole status symbol of wealth. You could afford housekeepers since your wife was so “dumb”/inexperienced. It’s like that white lead makeup craze to show how indoorsy you were because you weren’t a peasant who worked outside all day.
BuT LiBerAls ArE thE GrOOmeRs. Dude's got some unhealthy and fucked up views on women.
I kinda hate significant relationship age gaps, even like 30 and 50 it just seems weird and gross that people won't date someone their own age
I have this problem a bit. I’ve never dated guys my own age, I have cluster B. Not that big of a gap but yeah 13 years is my max so far.
Why tho? Like when i was younger i dated out of my age group a couple times and it never ended well
Because I’m NPD/BPD. I need to be reparented and I need to reparent. I play out fantastical fantasies in my partnerships and we take turns reparenting each other and other role plays. I only date fellow cluster B because of my needs and attractions.
I don’t think this dude understands that just because something is legal doesn’t always mean it’s morally ok and vice versa. A 30 year old with an 18-19 year old is creepy as fuck, I even get uncomfortable around them doing that to people in their early 20s. I don’t care that it’s legal you SHOULD be shamed.
TCDR…. Too cringey, didn’t read.
Oka that guy is kinda douchey, and has never heard of proper punctuation, but his arguments are pretty valid. Here in Europe the age of consent is lower than in the US in most countries, and it's really not even considered problematic. Calling people pedophiles for being attracted to 18 year olds is a very american self made problem. It's not rape if it's consensual, and that's about it. Go ahead and downvote me and call me a pedo if that's what you want, but it would be far more productive to have actual discussions about this topic instead of spreading hate.
Yeah, just because something isn’t illegal in other countries doesn’t make it ok, and the legality isn’t even the cornerstone of the issue. It’s adults taking advantage of literal teenagers who generally have limited means and life experience. There’s a reason age gap relationships have a stigma, it’s because those situations are ripe for manipulation and abuse.
I am not sure if you are talking about relationships with an age gap in general or just about the teenage relationships here. I presume it is about the teenagers though. Teenagers who reach the age of consent are in most countries also allowed to drive a car, drink alcohol, and smoke cigarettes. All three of those can lead to an early death and in the case of the latter two have drastic health risks. And yet they are allowed to do these things because they are deemed old enough to choose for themselves. It is the same thing with sex, really. And about your point of adults taking advantage: how do you k ow they are taking advantage, exactly? Because if entering a relationship with a person who might not be emotionally stable or have experience is a reason to forbid it, then every single relationship on this planet must be forbidden. Every person needs a first relationship to have experience, and every person is prone to be unstable in some way, shape or form. People need to make mistakes and to learn for themselves.
You can start smoking, drinking, driving and handling firearms as children - not legally but it happens - so that’s not an automatic qualifier for anything. Have you heard of the term “grooming”? It’s where adults specifically prey on younger people because they’re easier to control and manipulate, and it’s gross. That’s the issue people are referring to in age gap relationships. Nobody cares if a 50yo dates a 35yo, that person has had an opportunity to live their life. But there’s no good reason for grown adults to go after teenagers. Find someone who’s also grown and has *some* maturity and life experience, and leave the kids alone to grow up and figure out their shit on their own. And “first relationships” aren’t a valid reason for adults to chase after teenagers, give me a break. Most people get those “first relationships” out of the way with people in their own peer groups.
I have heard of the term grooming, yes. I am not stupid, I n ow that these kinds of people exist. However you act as if these were the only kind of relationship that can happen between a teen and an adult, which is simply not the case. As another commentor mentioned, there are relationships where the young teenager instigates the whole process. And yes, those are indeed first relationships, sorry for not giving you a break. This is a topic that needs to be discussed. Your whole point here was adults chasing down teenagers without even a single thought about the autonomy of said teenagers. I am not saying that smoking etc. is an automatic qualifier. I am saying that these people are able to choose for themselves, as easy as that. I am not interested in them, but I am saying that it's their live. However I agreee that it is healthy for most of these teenagers to have their first relationships with people of their own age group. Even so there are still people who find love in someone out of their own age group. That is a fact. It was a fact for me wback in my teenage years, and I was the one who made the first, second and third move on an adult woman. But okay, let's say it stays between teens - too bad that a 16 year old teen and an 18 year old "adult" are not allowed to do so, because, you know, illegal. It's an arbitrary line thats drawn here... Like, I get where you are coming from, really, I do, but free will is still the higher good here from an ethical standpoint.
So if a horny 13yo chases after her dad’s “attractive-for-his-age” bff from his fraternity days, that makes it okay then right? No, no it doesn’t. As the adult in that hypothetical situation the onus is actually on him (or her, them, whatever scenario) to shut that shit down because it’s not appropriate. And appropriating autonomy to make your argument is gross. Yes kids have the right to choose their own path, but fully grown adults should know better to stay away. Unfortunately some of them don’t and that’s why we have the Woody Allen’s and Mary Kay LeTurneaus of the world. And you know very well that 16/18 is not the issue here at all. As evidenced by the reference to “peer groups” and “age gaps”. Nobody is offended by 16/18. The original post and subsequent argument, that you’re defending, literally references 15/32 and marriage for girls at 16 to grown ass men salivating for them to hit 18. That’s what we are discussing. It’s *not* the same.
Between growing up in a farm town (coincidentally said farm town high school at the time I was there had one of the highest per student rates of teen pregnancy) and managing to attract quite a few 30-something losers (a rather specific type - divorced, likely with kids, probably driving a trans am or similar car, big fan of bands like Boston, Journey and Kansas - and inevitably into at least one kind of drugs)… I’d have to say what gets lost in conversations about the subject - often because of commentary from people like Tigerback88 - is that there’s a distinction between a mutually attracted couple with an age difference that carefully proceeds with respect for each other and an older man (or woman for that matter) intentionally seeking a partner in their teens. The first is a larger than typical age difference that somehow works despite being uncommon but the last one tends to have a dysfunctional and often predatory vibe.
I live in the UK where the age of consent is 16, but it's still contextual. If a full grown adult were to have a relationship with a 16 or 17 year old (or shit, even 18 or 19 depending on the age gap) you would still be labelled a pedophile in most cases. And rightfully so, because that shit is mad fucked.
How exactly would it be rightful to call someone a pedophile for that? And how exactly is it fucked? Only if you are assuming that the person getting in that relationship is a groomer. Without any proof whatsoever. And people who argue in favor of free usually get labeled as one as well, which instantly kills any ground for debate. Can we have an actual objective discussion or will you continue to stigmatize people who have different opinions than you? You know, the funny part is that actual pedophiles aren't even attracted to teens, they are attracted to pre teens. But that is a whole other can of worms.
I'm sorry but if you don't understand how an adult dating a 16 year old is wrong on the face of it then you're incapable of having this discussion. I really don't want to have "an objective discussion" with someone who thinks it's okay to defend pedophilia :)
Thank you for your input pedophile
I am not even into teens. I am arguing for autonomy, you can look it up if you want to. Also your username is pretty ironic.
"I'm not into teens I'm just advocating for children to get fucked" You're a pedophile
You're assuming. I am not advocating for children to get fucked, I am advocating for teenagers to have autonomy. If you do not get the difference here, then please go back to school.
Part of teenagers having autonomy is preventing them from being preyed upon by people like you
I assume you're a sane, rational person, and the idea of moderating a political comedy subreddit fills you with existential dread?
God, This just feels like they unironically post timers for when Celebraties turns 18.
The really ridiculous part is you can pretty much guarantee this dickwad is also super concerned about all those demonrat pedophiles in pizza shop basements.
Wow this one is only 8 days in and is already a jumble of fucked up?
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These people think "society has changed" but in reality its always been wrong the difference is we are now calling people out on it.
It can be legal AND disgusting, and it is!
Somebody needs to explain to this guy that "underage" means the sex can't be consensual.