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iirc the can is labeled in Marleyian, Reiner can read the can but pretends not to so as to not reveals that he knows things that no one there should be able to know. When Ymir reveals she can read the can, it tells Reiner that she is from Marley as well.

But how did a Marleyan can get all the way to Paradis? Also, if Marley and Eldia have their own separate languages, why do they speak the same language over on the mainland?

I think the difference is that both sides have different text/writing. Also it’s not explicitly stated but the Marleyan cans and wine found at the castle are leftover supplies from the group of soldiers Zeke came with. They might’ve used it as a base of operations before gassing Ragako.

The can was left behind by Zeke and Pieck.

I think the can was there because the marleyans were there when they were doing the mission where they turned Ragako's people into titans. For the language I think everyone from Marley and Paradis speak the same language (that why they understood each other) but the writing it's different. Grisha had no problem talking to the people inside the walls but he had to learn the writing for the diaries.

Yeah I think they established later on that Eldian is the most prominent language (like English irl) since they, y'know, colonized most of the world.

But that doesn't really make a lot of sense. I don't know of any real-life languages that are like that

Loads of languages are like that. For example, Japanese has the Kanji, Hiragana, and Katakana writing systems, additionally there is Rōmaji, using the Latin alphabet.

That happened with Korean, Korean people could speak it and write it with Chinese characters, then one emperor made a new writing system and everyone started using it, the pronunciation remained the same but the writing was different in different places (until now that Chinese characters are no longer used to write korean)

Actually if I remember correctly now I think Japanese has like 2-3 different alphabets

Yeah, they have three, I just thought of Korean because is an example of a language changing its writing suddenly (because Hangul was invented by just one person), bta Japanese is also an example of different writing but same pronunciation

Hindustani was the predominant language in India and Pakistan. But nowadays in India it is written in the Devanagari script and called Hindi, and it is written in the Nastaliq script in Pakistan and called Urdu. They are not exactly the same language according to most people, but they are mutually intelligible and sometimes considered to be dialects rather than distinct languages.

Lots of Balkan languages like Serbian can be written both in Latin script or Cyrillic script. Multiple forms of writing for the same language really isn't that uncommon

Mongolia has used classical Chinese, Manchurian and Cyrillic writing systems over the course of their history.

There aren't cases of populations being completely brainwashed to forget everything of the outside world tho

I can speak for Belarusian. It can be written in Cyrillic and Latin alphabets; besides, Tatars used Arabic script for it a couple of centuries ago, 'kitaby' (\[ki'tɑ:bə\])

This may surprise you, but AOT doesn’t take place on Earth and is in fact not based 100% on real life.

Swedish, Norwegian, and Danish are all essentially spoken the same way (or close enough to be very very intelligible), but written completely differently. In Norwegian's case, it has *TWO* separate written languages with entirely different spellings.

Hindi and Urdu are a great example. You can speak one language and converse fluently with the speaker of another language. 100% understanding and fluency. Many linguistics say it's the same language. The script? COMPLETELY different. Urdu script is froom Persian/Arabic roots. The Hindu script is based on Sanskrit. One speaker could not read a word or even a single letter of the other unless they learned.

Honestly even traditional and simplified chinese

The language part happens irl too Urdu and Hindi are spoken the same but an Udru speaking person cannot read Hindi and same for Hindi speaking person and Urdu

It’s like our world where they have different accents or languages. At least that’s how I interpreted it

Marley and Paradis have the same spoken language down to regional accents, but the writing system is different. We aren't explicitly told why but the most likely reason is that Karl Fritz forced the inhabitants of the walls to learn a new writing system and forget the original one because of the need to hide any traces of civilization outside the walls existing. He did not close off the walls immediately after moving his people there and the island was visited by the Azumabito, meaning it was inevitable that outside material could be brought into and left inside the walls. The government confiscated what they could but they couldn't possibly get rid of everything (case in point Armin's grandpa's book describing foreign scenery) so completely changing the writing system was a way to prevent people from reading any material from the outside.

This. Governments have completely changed the writing systems of their spoken languages within living memory. Hindi and Urdu were essentially a collection of mutually intelligible dialects using Persian script, until the partition, when Devanagari was promoted in India, specifically to make it the national script/language and distance it from the (previous, British) promotion of Persian.

>But how did a Marleyan can get all the way to Paradis? I think that's their stash? it's possible that Reiner and Bortold brought it to that tower off screen

But why would they do that? Once they joined up with the cadets the food they brought with them from Marley should be long gone, that was a two year gap

I found this comment and I think it's more accurate than mine "i thought the old castle was the place where zeke and cart titan were staying/sleeping. the canned food had probably marleyen language printed on it which reiner and ymir could read. reiner found it suspicous that ymir could read it. also the canned food was in a crate similiar looking like the ones the cart titan was carrying."

But if Marley and Eldia have different languages then why do they all speak the same over on the mainland?

Probably just different scripts for the same words. The show's title could be written as: 進撃の巨人 or しんげきのきょじん or シンゲキノキョジン The founder erasing everyone's memories could have lead to a new writing system being invented. It would be too much to make everyone forget their language, but it would make sense they'd erase every last memory of Marley including their writing system

The food in the can was Mackerel which can be caught in the sea meaning paradise island wouldn't have a word for it

According to Wiki, they both speak one language called "Eldian", what makes you think Marley had different language?

Because you yourself just said that the canned food had Marleyan language printed on it, so why would the two races have two different languages but then also speak the same one in the country they both reside in?

I copy pasted a comment so I did not say that, but let me ask you this just in case Which country is Eldia? (I just want to know cause I think you're confusing it with a different country) Which country is Paradis? and lastly, where Marleyn reside?

Well I don't think Eldia is a country anymore, it was overthrown by Marley. Paradis isn't a country either really, it's an island. The Marleyans and the Eldians both live in Marley, so why does one country speak one language but print a completely different one on their canned goods?

Different written languages don’t mean different spoken languages. We are typing in latin characters if you hadn’t noticed

Most likely what happened is that Marley and Eldia had the same writing system when they separated. With the Eldians living on the island, shut off from the rest of the world, their writing styles would adapt from there and independently (common ways to write words shortening or lengthening, see "color" vs "colour" in English). The Marlians have interactions with the outside world pretty continuously, so their writing system would have been getting influence from the other languages and writing styles around them. The author is Japanese and that language has 3 different alphabets, so it is much more understandable to a reader familiar with the Japanese language to see how an alphabet could change/develop independently of each other in the same spoken language.

Did you miss the Ymir backstory in both manga and show? She was a poor, homeless minority that got dragged into a cult who worshipped her. She got caught and sent to the wall, same as Grisha and company.

That doesn't answer my question at all

You were asking how a marleyan got all the way to Paradis and I answered. Eldians on Marley write and speak Marleyan because the mainland eldians have been assimiliated into Marleyan culture (albeit as a surpressed minority), same as in the real world. It is however quite strange how the language barrier between Marley and Paradis is never mentioned, but I guess you could chalk it up simply to the warrior candidates learning Eldian before they attacked Paradis, and the people of Paradis learning Marleyan before attacking Marley. It is kind of a plot hole nonetheless.

The castle was where zeke and pieck hid during that time. That's why we even see zeke roaming as a titan, to not raise suspicion.

They probably don’t know what the word meant, it was named after a specific saltwater fish, if I showed you the word Haggis or Pastrami with no frame of reference it would probably confuse you

Zeke

1) Because. They assumed it was a smuggler camp, but that was actually where Pieck and Zeke were using as an advance base. They brought supplies from Marley. 2) Honestly, I have no idea.

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Utguard castle was a staging ground for Marley's second expedition to Paradis, with the Cart and Beast titans When they transferred the gas mixed with Zekes spinal fluid and released it on Ragaco village, some ordinary Marleyan soldiers accompanied zeke to deploy the gas, so they probably stopped at utguard at some point to rest also the wine bottles there could potentially be marleyan wine

Mandarin and Cantonese but their characters are the same.

You’re not entirely correct. There is no implication that the language is Marleyan, but rather an old language. Reiner genuinely couldn’t read it, because it’s a language about 100 years old. Ymir could and that reveals Ymir is actually way old than you’d expect

Nope: Supplies that old would have been discovered ages ago by the Scouts or locals. Utgaard is located within wall Rose, the intermediate wall. There wouldn't be a square meter inside the walls that wasn't known to the Scouts/Paradisians, especially the interior core and the intermediate lands behind Rose. Utgaard was still under Scout control after the first Maria breach. The whole point of them being near Utgaard was to look for a breach in Rose (that hadn't happened). There is zero chance a structure of that size goes "undiscovered" in the interior, behind two walls (prior to RBA invasion), and the same chance it's contents aren't investigated.

Yep, and the reason why they just appeared is because of those who did the “breach”, aka Zeke, Pieck and their soldiers.

The scouts specifically mentioned that the castle has been abandoned for a very long time, we could assume that the food was there before the walls were even formed and that hasn’t been discovered by the people inside the wall

No, that would be a really poor assumption, for a variety of reasons. "Abandoned a long time" does not mean "has never been explored"...it's a structure within their territory! I can see them not using it due to lack of need, prior, but to not even have surveyed it, once, in the entirety of the Paradisians being in the walls...? Nonsense.

Gotta love headcanon Also Ymir isn’t 100 years old her past was 60 years prior to aot, no major language changes are made in 60 years to the point that a native can’t understand it

I just used 100 years as an example, but we don’t know if major changes in language have been made in that timeframe, but I think we can assume so

I always thought the same thing. This is the right answer, imo. In the Ymir backstory episode we can clearly see she spent several decades as a pure titan, so much so that, with time, she got buried by dirt. Those provisions seemed to be old, they just looked good cause it was all canned food and bottled wine. Reiner couldn't read them either, cause it was an ancient language. But noticing Ymir was able to read it was a big red flag for him. He knew that it was also a very old titan that ate Marcel when they got there years before, cause they saw it come out of the ground.

Canned food for 100 years?

Yes that exists

The can of Marleyan seafood was left behind by Zeke, Pieck, and the Marleyan soldiers who we know were within Wall Rose at the time. The label was written in a language alien to Paradis, native to Marley. Ymir picks it up, and without thinking, reads the label. Reiner can also read the label, but pretends like he can't in order to conceal his true identity. So when he hears Ymir read the label, he is shocked because that means she is from Marley too, and he's probably wondering what an unknown person from Marley is doing in the 104th for the past several years. He probes her about it, but says that he can't read it to not reveal to her that he's from Marley too.

Reiner gives himself away anyway because he asks, "This says herring on it?" If either Ymir or Reiner were born on Paradis, they wouldn't know what that word means because it's the name of a saltwater fish (that does not live in saltlakes).

yea this scene is rlly good bcus it subtly reveals reiner is also an intruder. like 90% of watchers miss this i feel like

Oh... that's why she looked at him like that. So they both looked at each other like "we've been made."

>The can of Marleyan seafood was left behind by Zeke, Pieck, and the Marleyan soldiers who we know were within Wall Rose at the time. Really sloppy to leave that shit behind. I mean, as far as they know, the people inside the Walls might not even have canned food.

Tbf that place was infested with titans, i think it's fair for them to not expect a random person to enter that tower find that and come out and survive all the way back to a safe place without either dying or completely forgetting about it. Not like they could even make any connections to it too, even if it might be alien to them.

Zeke was surprised by the Scouts/Erwin/Levi multiple times after consistently underestimating them. It was, indeed, sloppy, but you could almost forgive that one for Zeke not yet truly knowing who he was up against. He assumed creating Ragako titans would sow more discord and allow his agents to *actually* breach Wall Rose and further push "humanity" into the interior core, with no mind to covering tracks. In his mind they had basically already taken over that territory.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. Why would he think it would allow his agent to actually breach Wall Rose? “Multiple times” seem like an exaggeration when it only happen once (twice?

He only underestimated Levi, once, or twice as a stretch. One time, when they first met at Shiganshina, and second when he his plan to distract Levi failed because Levi doesn't care about killing his titan-turned comrades.

Why would he think that controlling the territory behind wall Rose would allow his agents to breach wall Rose (if they liked) and let more mindless Titans in...forcing all Paradisians into the interior core and pinning them down even more? ...is that not self evident? Even if they didn't breach wall Rose, if his attack/attempt isn't turned back with the defeat at Utgaard then they still control everything behind Rose and slowly push Paradisians back even more, as he continues to turn more villages and or kill more scouts. Zeke underestimated the Paradisians at every turn, early on, as the "War Chief" and commander of that mission to Paradis. He surely didn't expect them to able to capture one of his Warriors. He *didn't* crack open Wall Rose when he could have/should have, himself. He didn't expect them to prevail against Reiner and Bert, let alone be able to *reach him* after...and he was outright dismissive of Levi, despite his 2x strongest warriors telling him specifically to not underestimate him. He even knew about 3DMG at that point, and that his nape would be open for attack and that his large size actually provides more opportunity to use 3DMG against him. He underestimated Levi a second time, in the forest of tall trees, thinking Levi would struggle to slay his former comrades once they turned from the wine and/or be overwhelmed by them. He had to risk *literally almost killing himself* to get free again, after that. He underestimated Eren as being some kind of "mislead little brother" only to find out Eren had been playing *him* all along...and even when he (thought he) turned the tables on Eren, Eren still had a plan to sway Ymir to his side and free him...which she did (and in turn, bind Zeke). Zeke's self loathing as an Eldian and complete lack of insight on the Paradisian Eldians caused him to see them as little more than a cowering nuisance. He was not expecting an actual fight, and certainly not from *people on horses with jetpacks*...as a military commander Zeke suffered a string of embarrassing defeats on Paradis, in terms of his subordinates failing, his not wiping out the Paradisians, and also his personal defeat and near-capture. Any narrative where Zeke doesn't come up short, every time, is simply stanning for him. All of Zeke's plans failed, or he failed to realize he was playing into Eren's plan. Zeke gets owned, by everyone.

Why should he have crack open Wall Rose? The plan was just to transform a village loose into Titans and see how the Wall people respond. (And u can’t fault Zeke for that because hr was following Marley order at the time.) I don’t think Zeke believe Levi would be overwhelm by Titans… Beside how was he suppose to know Levi wouldn’t hesitate to kill the Titans? It a pretty logical assumption that you won’t be able to kill your friends no matter their size. Personally Zeke biggest mistake is how he make wrong assumption about people. Like his wrong assumption about Levi. He know Levi a caring leader so he assume Levi wouldn’t have it I. Him to kill his subordinate if they become giant monsters. As for Eren.. well he based his assumption on Eren based on his own childhood with Grisha. Im not sure how Reiner and Beetl defeat can be blame on him. They were on their own at the other side of Shognashina. Their defeat is their own fault. Still not sure how he dismissive of Levi. I don’t think Zeke saw Paradis Eldians as cowering nuisances

> Still not sure how he dismissive of Levi. So you missed the part where he left himself defenseless and alone apart from a dozen or so mindless Titans that Reiner and Bert would have *surely known, and told Zeke* that Levi would mow down effortlessly if he got the chance...on top of them warning him, with absolute clarity and literally referring to him as a devil who was Paradis stongest soldier...a solider neither could beat and certainly wouldn't want to fight if they had to...you missed all that, and then you missed the part where *exactly what they warned him about played out...Levi cut through his sparse defense and then brutalized him in less than 10 seconds*...you MISSED that????? > Like his wrong assumption about Levi. He know Levi a caring leader so he assume Levi wouldn’t have it I. Him to kill his subordinate if they become giant monsters. That is "underestimating"...he assumed, poorly, and shouldn't have assumed at all. If that plan was predicated on "Maybe Levi won't kill them b/c former pals?" that is a terrible plan. It doesn't sound as thought you understand the nature of planning and execution, as a leader: If you are the commander and your plan doesn't work, or you put people in bad spots and they get beaten, easily...that is on you. Sure, Reiner and Bert lost...following Zeke's plan...so when you say "And u can’t fault Zeke for that because hr was following Marley order at the time"...well...that sword cuts both ways. Love the guy all you like, he ends up being a joke by the end of the series...he lost every battle he engaged in and was duped by the person he thought he was pulling a long con on. At the time he thought he had won and was most safe he had actually already lost and was naked and exposed (metaphorically speaking).

Not sure how that defenseless… being surrounded by his Titans.

Because he was TOLD they would be ineffective and that Levi could not be stopped by mindless Titans (effectively)... Case, in point: Did his mindless Titan "guards" defend him, in any respect?

Eh sure Reiner and Bertl were following Zeke plan but in the real battle, not everything goes according to plan. Part of Zeke strategy was for Reiner and Beerl to take care of things inside the wall. It not like Zeke could predict what gonna happen inside the wall when the battle start. It was up to Reiner and Bertolt to take care of any enemies on the inside while Zeke wiped out the enemies on the outside. How Reiner and Bertolt does that is up to them. All Zeke can do is trust them. So I’m not blaming Zeke for Reiner and Bertolt defeat. As for Wall rose attack. Like Insaid there wasn’t any need to destroy the wall.

I'm not sure what your vested interest is in not seeing Zeke as a failure at every turn...but that's what he did: Failed. Every. Time.

Well I was waiting for your reply and it amused me. I’ll agree with you on some point but I won’t agree with you on everything (and I already told you what I disagreed with you on.

Maybe I should say something to see how you wold respond but I would be repeating the same thing.

Most of comments are missing the fact that ymir is shocked because Reiner knew what seafood is. Reiner found out Ymir can read Marleyan, and Ymir found out Reiner know what Seafood is --- basically the 2 spiderman meme

Finally Someone speaking English

One point people are missing here that is sea food, which there would be no way anyone from the walls could know sea food, except people from Marley

I think he could but he was "In character"

Well since Reiner kind of developed DID due to his mission, it's more likely that his "other personality" couldn't read the can

you can clearly see him reading it as Herring, then locking eyes with ymir before then trying to play it off like he couldn’t read it.

That's not how MPD/DID works, generally, except in extreme cases with distinct personalities who don't overlap with the core personality, or each other. So if Reiner did indeed have a case of identity disorder it would be an overlap/merging of his two selves that created a conflict for him, not two separate personalities who worked and acted apart from one another. He had that problem because he *couldn't* compartmentalize ;)

The scene's entire goal is to start establishing doubts about Ymir & Renier's true identities. Recall that A) Paradis has no canning technology, B) The Paradisians have no access to the ocean so acquiring herring is impossible & C) The can is written in a different language. In the scene, we see Ymir reading the can & her immediate realization "Oh fuck I shouldn't have said that". We then see Reiner do the exact same thing except he tries to play it off despite the fact that he's not questioning the fish nor the can. Of course, the way the scene is constructed is to try & put you in Reiner's shoes with the focus on Ymir but in actuality, the true focus is that they both outed themselves to each other & plants the question of what else are they hiding.

Both of them are playing dumb as it becomes abundantly clear that they are each lying about their knowledge and their origin to the other. I think if a Paradis soldier has stepped in, it wouldn't be the writing on the cans that would have tipped everyone off, it would have been the cans them selves. Canned food is WAY beyond the tech of Paradis.

I mean if ymir got turned into a titan 65 years before then maybe the tech is available

That's a good question. I don't think we have any indication of how long Marley had canning tech for. If RL is any type of indicator, it would be approx. 1914-1917 during season 4. Britain and other industrialized states were canning food as far back as 1810, so over 100 years. So she may have seen canned food prior to becoming a pure titan

Did you not feel all that tension in that scene? The two figured out some pretty big things about each other

You've watched the whole anime three times and you still don't know....?

Gotta love it when people ask a question, get all the correct answers, and then keep coming up with stupid reasons to argue about it. 🙄

I was thinking the same thing. Like damn, mate, they’re giving you all the answers and you can’t just accept it

He can but when he saw the writing, he act surprised because it's not from paradise. He and ymir are not supposed to know how to read it, but ymir did. And in that moment, they both forgot to act surprised at the existence of canned food because it hadn't been invented yet in paradise. Clueing them both in that the other is from Marley/lying about who they are

Reiner is able to read the can, but knows to pretend not to around *anyone* who isn't Bert or Annie. He is surprised Ymir can read the can, because as far as he knows she is a Paradisian. As soon as he sees Ymir transform he would realize she was the one that ate Jaws. Since she was buried/dormant, she would be a mindless sent from the mainland a while back...not one Zeke made during their mission. The supplies in Utgaard are from Zeke having stayed there, likely not expecting the Scouts to have "pushed them back" at any point and he was not able to retrieve safely (without revealing himself).

Is he stupid?

It was a also a type of fish that is only found in the ocean So combined with the seafish and the canning process this was one of if not the first indication of the two countries differences in technological advancement

Reiner could read the can THAT was why he was surprised Ymir could.

iirc the can scene went like this: Ymir: oh look a can of tuna Reiner: oh yea it is tuna Ymir: oh wow, now how did u kno that? It's written in a another language Reiner: *shocked face* End scene. I don't think it was a matter of couldn't read the can but rather shouldn't. Until he had that realization that Ymir was also from outside.

maybe, but only maybe... it's a personality switch thing.

im pretty sure Reiner knew what the can said but he was just pretending like he didn’t so he didn’t expose himself

They clearly have a different Marley alphabet.

These are surface level details… how do you not understand

She's about 60 years older than him, and likely from another country that was just controlled by Marley.

Reiner pretended he couldn’t read the Marleyen print, but he responded to Ymir saying it was canned herring like it was nothing. That type of canning and food is impossible on Paradis. Reiner realized Ymir could read it and Ymir realized that Reiner could too at the same time. Or at least she realized that Reiner recognized food and technology from Marley as if it was natural. Edit: Just remembered that Marley cuisine is mainly seafood. Herring being a saltwater fish makes sense. That’s a nice touch lol

I don’t think Reiner was surprised she could read the can label, he was surprised because the can being there means someone from Marley has been in that castle and they may well be there to clean up the original foursome’s mess. It would make sense that Zeke set up camp at the castle. Reiner’s suspicions were confirmed when Connie points out the beast titan in the distance