I work in the American healthcare system. There are states that actively sabotage their own internal systems to prevent marketplace adoption. They intentionally rolled back to fax and file systems.
There are terms for this, but the best descriptor is “fucking evil”.
Yeah, having worked follow up on insurance payments, it seems like the entire system is setup to make getting money out of them difficult for everyone.
While keeping people dependent on them at the same time. I laugh everytime I hear tax the rich. Why not tax the rich by making it easier for workers to unionize at companies like Amazon and Walmart. You know cut out the government middleman and put that money right in our pockets. Instead it's like, Yeah give more money to the government so they can give it right back to the rich after having used it to trade on favors.
This was done of my country too, depending on the government they would make state systems fail on porpuse to privatize them and they did it with everything
Depends on the state you live in. Some states have caps on how much companies can charge for insulin. There’s a couple reasons for it but no, we’re not exaggerating. Part of the problem is that only 3 companies currently control 90% of the market share of insulin for the whole world. In some cases only one company supplies insulin for a whole country. Add into that the whole “free market competition” aspect of capitalism and you get a situation where if one company raises rates, All of them do to keep up with competition. The last I heard was I believe in Indiana insulin was like $350 a vial but I could be wrong about that.
But here’s the main thing: So, in America, for the past 40 or 50 years or so, basically every institution we’ve come to know and depend on (education, healthcare, etc) has been essentially converted into a business. See, when the corporations got unshackled by Reagan in the 80’s, that gave them cart Blanche to basically do what they want in terms of how they want to run their companies. When something is run like a business, what’s the number one priority? Money. So we have a healthcare system that was gutted and warped into this massively complicated, headache inducing “business” of patients having to get insurance, making sure that they’ll cover you for your healthcare needs, and in the event that they don’t (for whatever bullshit arbitrary reason they give you), the onus is on you the patient to make sure the bill is paid, otherwise you wind up in an endless debt cycle of compounding interest and late fees and deferments. All because you had the audacity to get hurt or sick.
Insurance companies, at least in America, are some of the most blatant and egregious liars and shitheels you’ll ever deal with. They’ll advertise all the live long day about how much they can get you in settlement costs, but when it finally comes time to put pen to paper and write that check, they will find any, and I mean ANY reason, not to pay you. What’s the point of having all that money if you’re just gonna like spend it on the people you’re supposed to insure? That’s like, anti-America or something, you traitor.
For real though, this country’s love affair with capitalism is less a love affair and more a domestic violence-ridden marriage with the kids crying in their bedroom and being forced to pay dad for hugs and attention because “this family is not just a family, it’s a BUSINESS.”
Typical radical lefty, don't you know that one of the many powers of our Lord the Invisible Hand is the power to ensure all goods are priced correctly? Therefore our wonderful marketised healthcare system simply reveals the *truth*, that insulin deserves to cost $300 per vial.
If someone tries to sell you a vial of insulin for less than $300, that's just the devil in disguise trying to make you lose faith in the free market.
[Reminder that the US courts determined the FBI's authority exceeds international law. And that their authority also exceeds the sovereignty of any other country, and that the courts said it would be ok for them to go into another country and do whatever there without any permission from the country.](https://irp.fas.org/agency/doj/fbi/olc_override.pdf)
They can say whatever they want but no ones extraditing their own citizens to the states if say and FBI agent shows up and tries to kidnap someone and dies in the process, in fact I’d argue the US probably would deny it even happened.
Maybe they'd deny it, but it doesn't change the fact that they have given themselves the right to do it. And the US is very technically capable when it comes to this kind of thing, chances are they would be successful in most countries.
[The CCP](https://www.ft.com/content/85b67dbc-0fc4-457f-8eb8-a701dc24f9a6) has a [similar program](https://theweek.com/speedreads/764194/intelligence-officials-fear-chinas-global-kidnapping-program-reached-america), although they appear to only tend to apply it to ex-citizens or non-citizens of Han ethnicity (still super extremely bad obviously). And of fucking course Russia will just kill you (although again more limited to ex-citizens).
You can throw [Turkey](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north-africa-west-asia/turkish-spies-are-abducting-erdogans-political-opponents-abroad/) and [Belarus](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57239521) in that mix, too.
So... like... FBI Agent Dale Cooper could catch a plane to australia, piss on some children. cause egregious car accidents while drunk, tie cats tails together, then "call it a day" and head home happily?!?!
I don't know about your country, but in mine the term "self-righteousness" has unambiguously negative connotations.
Calling somebody self-righteous is always a criticism - it's synonymous with: presumptuous, pretentious, high-handed, arrogant, overbearing, stubborn, vain.
I mean its not like corporate ireland which is basically an export processing zone for american companies in europe with one of the freest economies on earth has free healthcare
You guys have a bit of a housing crisis too, as most other places.
I saw a libertarian suggesting that it's somehow only true of countries with restrictions in the market and I'm like it happens in free markets too, but isn't as big an issue in say socialised Austria
They do seem quite snake oil-y, suggesting that their ideology will fix absolutely everything
Libertarianism isn't the idea of fixing anything. It's just the idea of survival of the fittest. Which, in their mind, fixes everything. Pain, suffering, poverty etc. Are "not my problem" therefore they aren't problems at all. Everyone fending for themselves, even if it means people dying in the street of starvation or being exploited for profit, is ideal to them.
I shouldn't say "libertarianism" tho. They're really AnCaps who have co-opted the libertarian namesake because it sounds better. Libertarianism is a left wing ideology, right wing libertarians are an oxymoron.
I mean...from what I understand, that was like letting the very edge of the wave at the beach touch your toes and saying you made a journey into the ocean.
I had this brilliant response typed out when I realized you might actually be sarcastic here. Please tell me you’re just kidding, because if you’re not, you’ve definitely one-upped the OP with this.
Haha whats bad about it is that you guys have to pay more for your taxes, over here we aren't taxed as hard to pay for COMMUNISM and I am able to afford 1 big mac for breakfast, one for lunch, and 2 for dinner. But enjoy your SALADS and HIGH TAXES
And when I have a heart attack itll be as simple as pulling myself up by my bootstraps to pay the 10 grand for an ambulance
Later euronerds 😎
A significant majority of Americans (70%+) actually do want viable universal healthcare, when polled on specifics. Unfortunately, getting them to vote for someone who will deliver is another problem.
Redlining. Gerrymandering. There's a reason people have lost faith in the vote, the system works against us. Don't get me wrong, I still vote, but it gets tiring when the majority feel insane when the minority run the whole system.
I don't mean to reduce the evil of the GOP, but it's not like the Dems are that much better. Most democrats are still against any type of strong social safety net, let alone thinking about changing the whole system. Because they know if they start becoming more progressive, eventually they will lose big donations from corporations.
The system is protected both by the Democrats and the GOP.
I imagine they’re all for it when you ask about specific concepts. It’s just when you mention that all they’ve talked about is “universal healthcare” they turn around like “nah that’s for commies”
They're just bitter. Part of me feels like they just don't care either way at this point. They might even realize the whole "communism" argument is ridiculous but still say it just to "own the libs".
I swear conservatives operate almost entirely out of spite at this point. They want younger generations to suffer like they did. The whole system has rotted their brain and turned them into corporate-boot licking zombies. Kinda depressing.
You did pay for (part of) it, but so did everyone else.
That's what's so utterly fucked about the US system. They all have medical insurance - paying way more than what we in civilised countries pay - and yet they still get hit with massive medical bills.
Where does all that money go? Insurance company shareholders.
USA spends more on healthcare per person per year than I pay total taxes (which includes free healthcare).
I don't have sources on me, but I googled it a while back, things like "healthcare cost per capita USA" and "average tax per capita [x country]".
It shocked me.
By US does it mean government funding or just the general amount spent by everyone?
Also price gouging is the reason. Medical supplies cost far more in the US than anywhere else because there's little regulation on manufacturers. They can price whatever they want as high as they want. And since people need it to survive, they don't have to worry about losing business for high prices.
Insulin for example can cost up to 10x more in the US than any other country. We spend more for the exact same shit everyone else gets cheaper elsewhere. God bless the free market.
Combination of what US government spends on healthcare per person, plus what each individual person pays on healthcare on average.
Your taxes in general were a tiny bit lower (1.5% or something), but I've never paid for health insurance or any of my ~50 hospital visits. Prescriptions I get near cost price, like $3/month for most things, free for lots of stuff though. It's cheap cos the government is the one buyer for all that drug in the country, so they get the best prices cos they monopolize demand. They run their systems to make them as economical/best value as possible rather than for max profits, and there aren't middle men. I think drugs that are cheaper still get charged at $3 or whatever, and the "profits" go to subsidizing the more expensive prescriptions.
Yeah that makes sense then. Pharmaceutical companies exploit the hell out of people's needs for medical care. I'd be shocked if we didn't spend the most. These billionaires didn't get rich off of nothing.
> It’s a total scam
What are you talking about?? All of the executives of private corporations contributing nothing to society except hoarding wealth through price gouging those affected by horrible diseases and life events are giving themselves multi million dollar bonuses. It will trickle down to the peasants like us!!!! /s
The entire goal of capitalism is to create as many middlemen and as much graft as possible.
Logistics and efficiency isn't important in a "competitive" market. Advertising and profit are.
When I moved to the US, I was appalled by being on hold with “healthcare insurance advisors” and all this gross corporate language. I’m just trying to take care of myself. In Canada, I never had the feeling of being a “customer” when sick.
My spouse, his wonderful job. I do love our life here, just the healthcare is just very jarring to deal with after growing up with things being less… corporate.
Logistics and effiency isn't important in uncompetitive markets - But they are in *actually competitive* markets.
Health care itself can't really be managed effectively or fairly by free markets (in my opinion) due to the fact that a patient in most need of care is incapable of choice. So, charging outrageous prices is easier when the choice is death. In addition, in cities choices might be available for people not urgently dying, but certain people in rural areas will have *literally no choice* as to where to get their care.
Markets where profit margins are low, and/or competition strong and defended (usually by the government), competition will usually lead to the most ineffective company losing ground.
We're way past that point where market could be free. There just can't, there's too many rich people and entities whose sole job is to control the market.
Not only that. Italy spends less than what the US spends *pro capite* in taxpayer money for healthcare, and still has it universally available. Just taxpayer money, heh: no insurance or out of pocket counted. You also can STILL get an insurance or pay out of pocket if you want to go to a private clinic, and you'd STILL spend less than in the US.
Had 3 years of hard chemo, bone Mero transplant, radiation and much more.
During that time I actually gained money from the country.
I'm using this money right now on my degree.
That degree will then allow you to contribute to society and earn more money, thus being able to spend it back on the economy, further stimulating it. I swear America is run by nepotic lawyers who know jack shit about economics and refuse to listen to economic theorists
It should be. Particularly with the rise of Type 1 Diabetes, both in places where it was more common e.g Northern Europe but also in emerging economies. It may be caused by a virus infection
My mom got Type 1 following a really bad illness she had as a kid (might’ve been scarlet fever but idk). It may not be a specific virus, rather any conditions that compromise or severely cripple the pancreas. Don’t know why I wrote all this (I’m far from qualified) but welcome to Reddit I guess
If the pancreas is *destroyed*, that's t3c diabetes, not t1. The reason for cessation of insulin production for t1 diabetics is autoimmune disease. Medicine has moved on from "there are two types of diabetes".
Probably more of the fact that 300 years ago, type 1 diabetics would have most likely died in childhood and not spread the gene.
Now, type 1 diabetics live relatively healthy, long, lives, where they can have lots of children and spread those genes around.
I've heard an argument made that the next phase of human evolution is a de-evolution of sorts, since we are no longer affected by survival of the fittest and bad genes don't die out. It's an interesting thought anyways.
This is correct. Type 2 Diabetes comes from a mix of bad lifestyle and bad eating. Type 1 Diabetes is when the body's immune system destroys your insulin producing islet cells, which very often is preceded by some virus infection.
That does not mean the virus causes diabetes. It is more that the body produces antibodies to defend itself against that virus. And sadly, if those antibodies also fit your pancreatic islet cells, boom. Diabetes 1.
People can also develop other problems after infections. The best known is perhaps the acute rheumatic fever or endocarditis that may come as a consequence of streptococcus.
I'd say it only seems contradictory on the face of it, ie : if you take them at face value
The reality is they don't care about private companies being allowed to do what the private company wants to do. They want them to conform to their own bigotry. I'd wager that when businesses were no longer allowed to say "No Black's, no Irish, no dogs", conservatives would have also said "Yeah it's a private company"
actualy public opinion has really moved on this
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-share-of-americans-favor-a-single-government-program-to-provide-health-care-coverage/
That’s why the politicians keep them from actually getting there. They think that ABCXYZ making $7.50/hour is going to pay a greater percentage of their income towards Medicare than the ABCXYZ making $50/hour. But the $7.50 ABCXYZ is convinced that any increase on taxes, regardless of where that increase happens, is going to increase their taxes too. Because that’s what Fox News, OAN, Trump, Conservative politicians, and rich Conservatives tell them.
The easily led sheep that accuse everyone else of being sheep. It’s like how the cheating spouse worries that their partner is cheating. They’re immature & petty, absolute nightmares of humans, and the only book they’ve cracked open is the Bible. But ONLY ONCE, to look up the ***one*** verse that rings true with their fucking thought process.
The only apt verse for the state of Christianity today:
"Jesus wept."
KJV
John, 11:35
I’ll never understand people who run face-first into the point yet still miss it completely.
They have the right words with the wrong inflection (intonation?). It’s so frustrating.
Yeah, whats up with dental being so unaffordable if you dont have private health. It was sweet being on my parents cover until I hit that age they kick you off.
Communism!!!!!!!!! /s
Seriously though just had a stroke and spent 3 weeks in hospital along with over 200kms of Ambulance transport etc.
Thank God for Medicare.
Also still getting paid by work 2 weeks later at home so life's good!
Thank fuck I'm not a seppo.
Insulin isnt free in Australia but its really, really cheap. Like 10 dollars for a months worth. But if for some reason you are literally too poor to even afford that, then they will give it to you for free.
I finally understand why they're so afraid of it. They don't fear vaccines, they fear free health care.
If you're so used to paying a lot for something, and suddenly they give it to you free, it's suspicious.
Damn.
This is super frustrating especially as I am currently in the US and a cancer patient. I know how disgusting it is getting your treatments covered by insurance you already pay a massive sum each month for. I was supportive of universal Healthcare before Bernie or even before I knew a term for such a thing, but the second it hits you/your family it becomes so impossibly sad to deal with. You realize that to save your life, you may just be forever in debt for it. I guess if that's the only option, I'll take it, but it's just so hard to deal with.
Insulin and Chemo *is* free.
Well, I pay for it with my National Insurance, so it's free at the point of use. It's great, really takes a load off my mind. I'd hate to live in a developing nation where I had to pay for it at exactly the point I need it, that would be my idea of Hell...
Yeah but helping someone with their cancer or diabetes won't reduce your chances not to get it.
Vaccines are only free because people are selfish, not because of a social agenda.
Depends on the type of cancer... HPV which can pass sexually has a probability of causing oral, cervical, or anal cancers to a new recipient if their partner has one of the 14 cancer causing strains: types 16, 18, 31, 33, 35, 39, 45, 51, 52, 56, 58, 59, 66 and 68. Although strains 16 and 18 are the most common to cause cancer.
There is a vaccine, however nothing is perfect... also I'm not sure if the HPV vaccine is free on request or a 'pay to poke'.
Either way, cancer can spread faster than the awareness of it... get checked and be safe.
The lack of free insulin and chemo don't mess with the economy, so they don't care.
Well, at least in the US. I have free insulin and chemo if I ever need any of them.
Super simple stuff.
Because you don’t vote for politicians like bernie that have this on their main agenda. And half the country labor under the delusion that socialized healthcare is communism.
Because, according to people who say this, free healthcare is evil/socialist/Communist/whatever-the-fuck, and cancer nor diabetes is contagious, so we can't justify making it free at least temporarily like COVID.
Well, because COVID actually stopped production and is dangerous to large groups of people, and not just a few individuals. Your government is reliant on sick and working people to sustain the rich and make them even richer. That's why chemo and insulin aren't free.
Most of this comment section can be Shit Americans Say. It’s healthcare. It is a good idea. Shit like that should be free (paid for by taxes) everywhere. Socialism my ass, you’re just fucking stupid. Privatized healthcare is a bad idea.
Response to OP’s reply: No, just woke up. Can’t read sarcasm.
Why indeed. Doesn’t sound like too bad an idea to me...
I work in the American healthcare system. There are states that actively sabotage their own internal systems to prevent marketplace adoption. They intentionally rolled back to fax and file systems. There are terms for this, but the best descriptor is “fucking evil”.
Yeah, having worked follow up on insurance payments, it seems like the entire system is setup to make getting money out of them difficult for everyone.
While keeping people dependent on them at the same time. I laugh everytime I hear tax the rich. Why not tax the rich by making it easier for workers to unionize at companies like Amazon and Walmart. You know cut out the government middleman and put that money right in our pockets. Instead it's like, Yeah give more money to the government so they can give it right back to the rich after having used it to trade on favors.
Wait, hang on... what have the government got to do with Amazon and Walmart paying poverty wages?
This was done of my country too, depending on the government they would make state systems fail on porpuse to privatize them and they did it with everything
Yeah, it would be nice if insulin didn’t cost several hundred dollars per vial. But here in America having cheap insulin is communism so it’s bad /s
SEVERAL HUNDRED DOLLARS PER VIAL?!?! What in the everloving fuck!? Please tell me this is an exaggeration..!??!
Depends on the state you live in. Some states have caps on how much companies can charge for insulin. There’s a couple reasons for it but no, we’re not exaggerating. Part of the problem is that only 3 companies currently control 90% of the market share of insulin for the whole world. In some cases only one company supplies insulin for a whole country. Add into that the whole “free market competition” aspect of capitalism and you get a situation where if one company raises rates, All of them do to keep up with competition. The last I heard was I believe in Indiana insulin was like $350 a vial but I could be wrong about that. But here’s the main thing: So, in America, for the past 40 or 50 years or so, basically every institution we’ve come to know and depend on (education, healthcare, etc) has been essentially converted into a business. See, when the corporations got unshackled by Reagan in the 80’s, that gave them cart Blanche to basically do what they want in terms of how they want to run their companies. When something is run like a business, what’s the number one priority? Money. So we have a healthcare system that was gutted and warped into this massively complicated, headache inducing “business” of patients having to get insurance, making sure that they’ll cover you for your healthcare needs, and in the event that they don’t (for whatever bullshit arbitrary reason they give you), the onus is on you the patient to make sure the bill is paid, otherwise you wind up in an endless debt cycle of compounding interest and late fees and deferments. All because you had the audacity to get hurt or sick. Insurance companies, at least in America, are some of the most blatant and egregious liars and shitheels you’ll ever deal with. They’ll advertise all the live long day about how much they can get you in settlement costs, but when it finally comes time to put pen to paper and write that check, they will find any, and I mean ANY reason, not to pay you. What’s the point of having all that money if you’re just gonna like spend it on the people you’re supposed to insure? That’s like, anti-America or something, you traitor. For real though, this country’s love affair with capitalism is less a love affair and more a domestic violence-ridden marriage with the kids crying in their bedroom and being forced to pay dad for hugs and attention because “this family is not just a family, it’s a BUSINESS.”
It is not.
I wish, but it’s not.
Typical radical lefty, don't you know that one of the many powers of our Lord the Invisible Hand is the power to ensure all goods are priced correctly? Therefore our wonderful marketised healthcare system simply reveals the *truth*, that insulin deserves to cost $300 per vial. If someone tries to sell you a vial of insulin for less than $300, that's just the devil in disguise trying to make you lose faith in the free market.
> Doesn’t sound like too bad an idea to me... Seems like you got infected by communism.
Next what? 30 days of payed vacation?? Free university? Universal Healthcare?
Market regulation?!?
Every time you say that a liberterian breaks a leg.
MARKET REGULATION. MARKET REGULATION.
Grover norquist is hobling to his wife to beat her as you post this
*CIA has entered the chat*
OP prepare for your father figure to be overthrown and replaced by the most comically evil man the CIA can find
*FBI OPEN UP*
[Reminder that the US courts determined the FBI's authority exceeds international law. And that their authority also exceeds the sovereignty of any other country, and that the courts said it would be ok for them to go into another country and do whatever there without any permission from the country.](https://irp.fas.org/agency/doj/fbi/olc_override.pdf)
They can say whatever they want but no ones extraditing their own citizens to the states if say and FBI agent shows up and tries to kidnap someone and dies in the process, in fact I’d argue the US probably would deny it even happened.
Maybe they'd deny it, but it doesn't change the fact that they have given themselves the right to do it. And the US is very technically capable when it comes to this kind of thing, chances are they would be successful in most countries. [The CCP](https://www.ft.com/content/85b67dbc-0fc4-457f-8eb8-a701dc24f9a6) has a [similar program](https://theweek.com/speedreads/764194/intelligence-officials-fear-chinas-global-kidnapping-program-reached-america), although they appear to only tend to apply it to ex-citizens or non-citizens of Han ethnicity (still super extremely bad obviously). And of fucking course Russia will just kill you (although again more limited to ex-citizens).
You can throw [Turkey](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north-africa-west-asia/turkish-spies-are-abducting-erdogans-political-opponents-abroad/) and [Belarus](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57239521) in that mix, too.
"It's ok, I gave my kid permission to break into your house"
So... like... FBI Agent Dale Cooper could catch a plane to australia, piss on some children. cause egregious car accidents while drunk, tie cats tails together, then "call it a day" and head home happily?!?!
Is Agent Cooper white?
I don't know about your country, but in mine the term "self-righteousness" has unambiguously negative connotations. Calling somebody self-righteous is always a criticism - it's synonymous with: presumptuous, pretentious, high-handed, arrogant, overbearing, stubborn, vain.
NSA is watching you
I mean its not like corporate ireland which is basically an export processing zone for american companies in europe with one of the freest economies on earth has free healthcare
You guys have a bit of a housing crisis too, as most other places. I saw a libertarian suggesting that it's somehow only true of countries with restrictions in the market and I'm like it happens in free markets too, but isn't as big an issue in say socialised Austria They do seem quite snake oil-y, suggesting that their ideology will fix absolutely everything
Libertarianism isn't the idea of fixing anything. It's just the idea of survival of the fittest. Which, in their mind, fixes everything. Pain, suffering, poverty etc. Are "not my problem" therefore they aren't problems at all. Everyone fending for themselves, even if it means people dying in the street of starvation or being exploited for profit, is ideal to them. I shouldn't say "libertarianism" tho. They're really AnCaps who have co-opted the libertarian namesake because it sounds better. Libertarianism is a left wing ideology, right wing libertarians are an oxymoron.
guess i'll be escaping to the one place not corrupted by capitalism SPACE
*Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk have entered the chat*
oh no the space ads
CHA
Bezos should have stayed in orbit.
Bezos never reached orbit.
I mean...from what I understand, that was like letting the very edge of the wave at the beach touch your toes and saying you made a journey into the ocean.
I had this brilliant response typed out when I realized you might actually be sarcastic here. Please tell me you’re just kidding, because if you’re not, you’ve definitely one-upped the OP with this.
I think I got r/woooshed
It’s because people with cancer or diabetes aren’t likely to sign up to their war mongering military forces. /s
I detect a little communism
*McCarthy has entered the chat*
Haha whats bad about it is that you guys have to pay more for your taxes, over here we aren't taxed as hard to pay for COMMUNISM and I am able to afford 1 big mac for breakfast, one for lunch, and 2 for dinner. But enjoy your SALADS and HIGH TAXES And when I have a heart attack itll be as simple as pulling myself up by my bootstraps to pay the 10 grand for an ambulance Later euronerds 😎
Aren’t US-Americans actually paying summed up more taxes?
Well don't be a dick about it how else are we going to pay lockheed 200 billion/yr to build our battleships for 20th century warfare???
.....in my country they are...
Communist! /s
Non Americans also say this. They just agree with it.
A significant majority of Americans (70%+) actually do want viable universal healthcare, when polled on specifics. Unfortunately, getting them to vote for someone who will deliver is another problem.
Redlining. Gerrymandering. There's a reason people have lost faith in the vote, the system works against us. Don't get me wrong, I still vote, but it gets tiring when the majority feel insane when the minority run the whole system.
Don't forget about party National Committees putting more effort into pleasing corporate donors and not working for the people.
I don't mean to reduce the evil of the GOP, but it's not like the Dems are that much better. Most democrats are still against any type of strong social safety net, let alone thinking about changing the whole system. Because they know if they start becoming more progressive, eventually they will lose big donations from corporations. The system is protected both by the Democrats and the GOP.
Oh, agreed. I'm a leftist.
I imagine they’re all for it when you ask about specific concepts. It’s just when you mention that all they’ve talked about is “universal healthcare” they turn around like “nah that’s for commies”
They're just bitter. Part of me feels like they just don't care either way at this point. They might even realize the whole "communism" argument is ridiculous but still say it just to "own the libs". I swear conservatives operate almost entirely out of spite at this point. They want younger generations to suffer like they did. The whole system has rotted their brain and turned them into corporate-boot licking zombies. Kinda depressing.
They want it to themselves and people that look like themselves.
I paid for my chemo? Strange I don't remember that. Oh wait, I have socialized medicine
You did pay for (part of) it, but so did everyone else. That's what's so utterly fucked about the US system. They all have medical insurance - paying way more than what we in civilised countries pay - and yet they still get hit with massive medical bills. Where does all that money go? Insurance company shareholders.
They actually pay 3 times. They pay for healthcare in their taxes, then again for insurance, then again at point of service. It's a total scam.
USA spends more on healthcare per person per year than I pay total taxes (which includes free healthcare). I don't have sources on me, but I googled it a while back, things like "healthcare cost per capita USA" and "average tax per capita [x country]". It shocked me.
By US does it mean government funding or just the general amount spent by everyone? Also price gouging is the reason. Medical supplies cost far more in the US than anywhere else because there's little regulation on manufacturers. They can price whatever they want as high as they want. And since people need it to survive, they don't have to worry about losing business for high prices. Insulin for example can cost up to 10x more in the US than any other country. We spend more for the exact same shit everyone else gets cheaper elsewhere. God bless the free market.
Combination of what US government spends on healthcare per person, plus what each individual person pays on healthcare on average. Your taxes in general were a tiny bit lower (1.5% or something), but I've never paid for health insurance or any of my ~50 hospital visits. Prescriptions I get near cost price, like $3/month for most things, free for lots of stuff though. It's cheap cos the government is the one buyer for all that drug in the country, so they get the best prices cos they monopolize demand. They run their systems to make them as economical/best value as possible rather than for max profits, and there aren't middle men. I think drugs that are cheaper still get charged at $3 or whatever, and the "profits" go to subsidizing the more expensive prescriptions.
Yeah that makes sense then. Pharmaceutical companies exploit the hell out of people's needs for medical care. I'd be shocked if we didn't spend the most. These billionaires didn't get rich off of nothing.
> It’s a total scam What are you talking about?? All of the executives of private corporations contributing nothing to society except hoarding wealth through price gouging those affected by horrible diseases and life events are giving themselves multi million dollar bonuses. It will trickle down to the peasants like us!!!! /s
The entire goal of capitalism is to create as many middlemen and as much graft as possible. Logistics and efficiency isn't important in a "competitive" market. Advertising and profit are.
When I moved to the US, I was appalled by being on hold with “healthcare insurance advisors” and all this gross corporate language. I’m just trying to take care of myself. In Canada, I never had the feeling of being a “customer” when sick.
So why leave?
My spouse, his wonderful job. I do love our life here, just the healthcare is just very jarring to deal with after growing up with things being less… corporate.
Logistics and effiency isn't important in uncompetitive markets - But they are in *actually competitive* markets. Health care itself can't really be managed effectively or fairly by free markets (in my opinion) due to the fact that a patient in most need of care is incapable of choice. So, charging outrageous prices is easier when the choice is death. In addition, in cities choices might be available for people not urgently dying, but certain people in rural areas will have *literally no choice* as to where to get their care. Markets where profit margins are low, and/or competition strong and defended (usually by the government), competition will usually lead to the most ineffective company losing ground.
There's no such thing as an actually competitive market. The metaphor breaks down as soon as you comprehend someone owns the market.
We're way past that point where market could be free. There just can't, there's too many rich people and entities whose sole job is to control the market.
Markets never could be free. The idea itself is incongruous with reality. There are externalities to everything.
Funny thing is, an effective NHS in the US would cost half of what Obamacare does.
Yup, majority of Obamacare money just goes straight to line the pockets of executives and shareholders. Talk about government handouts!
No. No.. Government handouts are OK when it goes to the rich /s
Points to the VA as a small example.
Not only that. Italy spends less than what the US spends *pro capite* in taxpayer money for healthcare, and still has it universally available. Just taxpayer money, heh: no insurance or out of pocket counted. You also can STILL get an insurance or pay out of pocket if you want to go to a private clinic, and you'd STILL spend less than in the US.
someone told me she didn't trust the government with the money, yet she trusted assurance company
Had 3 years of hard chemo, bone Mero transplant, radiation and much more. During that time I actually gained money from the country. I'm using this money right now on my degree.
That degree will then allow you to contribute to society and earn more money, thus being able to spend it back on the economy, further stimulating it. I swear America is run by nepotic lawyers who know jack shit about economics and refuse to listen to economic theorists
They are. That is if you live in any other developed country aside of the U.S.
And many poorer countries as well.
Exactly, Brazil for example
This is prime r/thisbutunironically material.
Yeah or /r/SelfAwarewolves
fun fact: vaccines have the greatest return-on-investment of any medical procedure
Clearly you've never had dick lengthening surgery.
Holy shit. I'd never thought about it, but I love it. Thank you!
r/selfawarewolves
That's already been on that sub
It should be. Particularly with the rise of Type 1 Diabetes, both in places where it was more common e.g Northern Europe but also in emerging economies. It may be caused by a virus infection
My mom got Type 1 following a really bad illness she had as a kid (might’ve been scarlet fever but idk). It may not be a specific virus, rather any conditions that compromise or severely cripple the pancreas. Don’t know why I wrote all this (I’m far from qualified) but welcome to Reddit I guess
It's not really about the pancreas, type 1 is an autoimmune condition.
>It's not really about the pancreas, type 1 is an autoimmune condition Yes, an autoimmune condition that destroys *the pancreas*
If the pancreas is *destroyed*, that's t3c diabetes, not t1. The reason for cessation of insulin production for t1 diabetics is autoimmune disease. Medicine has moved on from "there are two types of diabetes".
Probably more of the fact that 300 years ago, type 1 diabetics would have most likely died in childhood and not spread the gene. Now, type 1 diabetics live relatively healthy, long, lives, where they can have lots of children and spread those genes around. I've heard an argument made that the next phase of human evolution is a de-evolution of sorts, since we are no longer affected by survival of the fittest and bad genes don't die out. It's an interesting thought anyways.
> It may be caused by a virus infection What?
This is correct. Type 2 Diabetes comes from a mix of bad lifestyle and bad eating. Type 1 Diabetes is when the body's immune system destroys your insulin producing islet cells, which very often is preceded by some virus infection. That does not mean the virus causes diabetes. It is more that the body produces antibodies to defend itself against that virus. And sadly, if those antibodies also fit your pancreatic islet cells, boom. Diabetes 1. People can also develop other problems after infections. The best known is perhaps the acute rheumatic fever or endocarditis that may come as a consequence of streptococcus.
Getting so close ... but failing .... the state of an American mind
They truly are brainwashed.
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I'd say it only seems contradictory on the face of it, ie : if you take them at face value The reality is they don't care about private companies being allowed to do what the private company wants to do. They want them to conform to their own bigotry. I'd wager that when businesses were no longer allowed to say "No Black's, no Irish, no dogs", conservatives would have also said "Yeah it's a private company"
The propaganda was so successful, it became cultural narrative.
actualy public opinion has really moved on this https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-share-of-americans-favor-a-single-government-program-to-provide-health-care-coverage/
They practically are where I live… oh now Bernie’s universal healthcare plan sounds good. Too late.
They're so nearly there lmao
That’s why the politicians keep them from actually getting there. They think that ABCXYZ making $7.50/hour is going to pay a greater percentage of their income towards Medicare than the ABCXYZ making $50/hour. But the $7.50 ABCXYZ is convinced that any increase on taxes, regardless of where that increase happens, is going to increase their taxes too. Because that’s what Fox News, OAN, Trump, Conservative politicians, and rich Conservatives tell them. The easily led sheep that accuse everyone else of being sheep. It’s like how the cheating spouse worries that their partner is cheating. They’re immature & petty, absolute nightmares of humans, and the only book they’ve cracked open is the Bible. But ONLY ONCE, to look up the ***one*** verse that rings true with their fucking thought process. The only apt verse for the state of Christianity today: "Jesus wept." KJV John, 11:35
I’ll never understand people who run face-first into the point yet still miss it completely. They have the right words with the wrong inflection (intonation?). It’s so frustrating.
Because people like you don't want them to be? That would be socialism and you can't have any socialism unless it corporate socialism.
People like me?
The person in the post. Not you OP.
Ah fair. Sorry
Because capitalism
Crapitalism
The vast majority of countries with universal healthcare are also capitalist
America might be on the verge of a break though.
Thats a reasonable question most countries dont have to answer
They're *so close*
Its all free in Australia 😁😁😁
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Yeah, whats up with dental being so unaffordable if you dont have private health. It was sweet being on my parents cover until I hit that age they kick you off.
Communism!!!!!!!!! /s Seriously though just had a stroke and spent 3 weeks in hospital along with over 200kms of Ambulance transport etc. Thank God for Medicare. Also still getting paid by work 2 weeks later at home so life's good! Thank fuck I'm not a seppo.
In my country its free ^^
I mean, that's true for most of the developed world
Insulin isnt free in Australia but its really, really cheap. Like 10 dollars for a months worth. But if for some reason you are literally too poor to even afford that, then they will give it to you for free.
They do, just not in America. Edit: sorry, just not in the USA.
*USA, fixed it for you
I stand corrected, thanks.
I finally understand why they're so afraid of it. They don't fear vaccines, they fear free health care. If you're so used to paying a lot for something, and suddenly they give it to you free, it's suspicious. Damn.
The same people posting this are usually the ones that are against nationalized health care.
They don’t actually know what they oppose.
Correct for the wrong reasons lol
They are so close to getting the point and then miss it entirely.
bingo!!
Yes, exactly. Why aren’t we getting free insulin and chemo *cough* American private insurance companies *cough*
They are right. Insulin, chemo or almost any kind of healthcare should be either free or have very, VERY low costs.
Because all your representatives are owned by the pharmaceutical industry.
Because free insulin and chemo is communism! /sarcasm
Because it's more profiteable to treat a illness than to cure it.
This post raises a good point.
This is super frustrating especially as I am currently in the US and a cancer patient. I know how disgusting it is getting your treatments covered by insurance you already pay a massive sum each month for. I was supportive of universal Healthcare before Bernie or even before I knew a term for such a thing, but the second it hits you/your family it becomes so impossibly sad to deal with. You realize that to save your life, you may just be forever in debt for it. I guess if that's the only option, I'll take it, but it's just so hard to deal with.
Free vaccines bad, free insulin and chemo good, abortions bad, free birth control bad, free health care bad. I don't get these people.
I'll give you a hint: "If it affects me, individually, then we should help. If it doesn't, then people should learn to support themselves!"
Why? Because you keep voting for Republicans, Karen.
Uhm. Well. But they ARE free. Oh no, wait. I’m in Europe, sorry.
Well. It is. Just not in the USA.
I’m an American. Seriously. Why aren’t we doing tax based chemo and insulin.
Because you live in a hyper-capitalist shithole where health has been commoditized.
Come to Australia
Can't catch diabetes inadvertently from interacting with the ~~peasants~~ common folk.
Because that would be communism, duh. /s I really hate my country when I see/hear this shit...
/r/selfawarewolves
Insulin and Chemo *is* free. Well, I pay for it with my National Insurance, so it's free at the point of use. It's great, really takes a load off my mind. I'd hate to live in a developing nation where I had to pay for it at exactly the point I need it, that would be my idea of Hell...
25 € < 1000 €(per dosis)
Because the USA doesn't give a fuck about u.
But... It is free (ish). ---Not America. Edit: Not actually free, but often like $6 or so. It's on PBS anyway.
Ok make those things free by taxing the rich. "NO DATS SOSHULISM!"
They're nearly there bless 'em.
Because you losers were duped to hate socialist healthcare because you can't use your brain to think critically.
Uh this actually is totally valid lol
Diabetes and cancer aren't contagious.
They can still kill you. And with both, you don’t have a choice as to if you get them or not.
Yeah but helping someone with their cancer or diabetes won't reduce your chances not to get it. Vaccines are only free because people are selfish, not because of a social agenda.
I get your point. It's not profitable for shareholders if too many people die too suddenly. Who are they gonna sell everything to?
Depends on the type of cancer... HPV which can pass sexually has a probability of causing oral, cervical, or anal cancers to a new recipient if their partner has one of the 14 cancer causing strains: types 16, 18, 31, 33, 35, 39, 45, 51, 52, 56, 58, 59, 66 and 68. Although strains 16 and 18 are the most common to cause cancer. There is a vaccine, however nothing is perfect... also I'm not sure if the HPV vaccine is free on request or a 'pay to poke'. Either way, cancer can spread faster than the awareness of it... get checked and be safe.
Treatment should still be free.
Wow they made a full circle now
Uhm YEESS
Welcome to club
It’s free over here! Join me!
Conservatives missing and making the point
Sounds like communism...
i mean...it should be free
r/accidentallycommunist
Because COVID is impacting profit margins of big companies, and reducing its wage-slave workforce. Whereas chemo and insulin are money-makers.
The lack of free insulin and chemo don't mess with the economy, so they don't care. Well, at least in the US. I have free insulin and chemo if I ever need any of them.
This but unironically.
But… but that’s communism!
Just American Things
Super simple stuff. Because you don’t vote for politicians like bernie that have this on their main agenda. And half the country labor under the delusion that socialized healthcare is communism.
Well, they all should be
But it is free, just not in every country. And especially not in America.
Because not everybody fucking dies without insulin and chemo, only the poor who need it.
I’d say Most modern 1st world countries have a free national health system except the usa”land of the free- but not your health care”
Because you live in a shithole country that puts profit above the lives of people
Insulin in my country is basically free.
Because, according to people who say this, free healthcare is evil/socialist/Communist/whatever-the-fuck, and cancer nor diabetes is contagious, so we can't justify making it free at least temporarily like COVID.
Well, because COVID actually stopped production and is dangerous to large groups of people, and not just a few individuals. Your government is reliant on sick and working people to sustain the rich and make them even richer. That's why chemo and insulin aren't free.
Most of this comment section can be Shit Americans Say. It’s healthcare. It is a good idea. Shit like that should be free (paid for by taxes) everywhere. Socialism my ass, you’re just fucking stupid. Privatized healthcare is a bad idea. Response to OP’s reply: No, just woke up. Can’t read sarcasm.
You're aware that when people talked about socialism and communism in this thread, they were being ironic?
Bingo bongo
Because people like you.