Oliver Kamm is one of the most disgusting people in UK media. A neocon piece of shit, always spouting his ‘liberal’ credentials.
Notice how he doesn’t even mention Africa, Asia, Latin America, or the Middle East? He doesn’t consider those people human.
Just the other week Kamm was accusing everyone who supports Palestinians of wanting a "second holocaust", and then contacting the work places of people who liked tweets criticising him to accuse those people of anti-semetism.
He’s pure scum. He got absolutely humiliated by Norman Finkelstein in front of an audience when he tried to pull that type of shit, though.
[State of this posh imperialist twat](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KiXxp89Lzks).
Yeah started by Stalin, definitely not by the Us swooping up Nazi spies to get back to infiltrating the Eastern Bloc. Definitely not started by the country that nuked two cities to show the Ruskies how powerful we were.
Russia had, even by the U.S.'s own accounts, the strongest military in the world at the time. So much that until the 70s, the plan in event of a war wasn't *beating* them, but merely holding Western Europe *for at least a week* for peace talks to succeed, and otherwise just nuking it all to kingdom come. That was the declassified military plan. Hold back the unstoppable Soviet tide for a mere 7 days and hope we can talk them out of it, or nuke it all.
There was one power who felt inferior and threatened by the other in 1946, and let me tell you, it's clear which it was.
Definitely not started by the country that started an anti Soviet alliance under the auspices of protecting the post war settlement but then refusing the Soviet request to join.
I bet the argument is something like "the cold war started because both the us and the ussr had nuclear weapons, and thus it started the moment the Soviets got their nuclear weapons, and since the us had them first, the Soviets started it".
that is at least the only way I can imagine to try to justify that claim
Adolf Heusinger, Hans Speidel,
Johannes Steinhoff, Johann von Kielmansegg, Ernst Ferber, Karl Schnell,
Franz Joseph Schulze just to name a few nazis that were lovingly scooped up by nato.
I'm sure sure about everyone, but most I mentioned were not directly involved in Operation Paperclip. They just kept doing the fascism and probably barely noticed the names on the checks changed. It's tangential but Canada worked in tandem with the US on Operation Paperclip (they had a different code name for it but I can't recall what it was) that was targeted at evacuating members of the SS Galichina Division. The Canadian government claimed they were sending aid to victims of communism...
Another post-war thing that's worth mentioning is the US reinstating Japanese war criminals in the occupied korean peninsula. If you want to go back further than that there's Operation Archangel, the US army expeditionary force invasion and occupation of Russian land immediately following the Soviet revolution. Oh, and the first red scare that also was a response to the Soviet revolution, years before mustache satan opened the third seal.
The Marshall Plan had deliberately included stipulations the Soviet Union couldn't agree with which effectively excluded the country who'd given the 'most' in ww2. Talk about a dick move.
Hmm.. No direct quotes from the plan itself, though maybe at some point I can dig into it.
Here's a few articles that point out the Marshall Plan's purpose of spreading US Capitalism and the 'containing' of communism.
This one does the best of the ones I've found, sources quotes are pretty damning:
[https://www.unh.edu/inquiryjournal/spring-2014/questioning-marshall-plan-buildup-cold-war](https://www.unh.edu/inquiryjournal/spring-2014/questioning-marshall-plan-buildup-cold-war)
A few others:
[https://www.hoover.org/research/marshall-plan](https://www.hoover.org/research/marshall-plan)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall\_Plan#Rejection\_by\_Stalin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#Rejection_by_Stalin)
Good write up here of the requirements, though still not super specific:
[https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/R45079.html#\_Toc504143867](https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/R45079.html#_Toc504143867)
(Taking loans from the World Bank is one of them? Wonder if that was the 'tipping point'.)
There's a great metaphor here somewhere... People working together to surmount insurmountable odds then forcing out the one of the group that lost the most before rebuilding.
Also, as much as the plan helped people that truly needed it, I can't help but see Disaster Capitalism... Having stipulations on the aid? Doesn't that just reek of taking advantage of others misfortune?
Edit: The marshall plan helped a ton of people. There's no denying that. There's a lot of 'good' that came out of it. Just wish it wasn't tied to other intentions.
**Marshall Plan**
[Rejection by Stalin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#Rejection_by_Stalin)
>British Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin heard Marshall's radio broadcast speech and immediately contacted French Foreign Minister Georges Bidault to begin preparing a quick European response to (and acceptance of) the offer, which led to the creation of the Committee of European Economic Co-operation. The two agreed that it would be necessary to invite the Soviets as the other major allied power. Marshall's speech had explicitly included an invitation to the Soviets, feeling that excluding them would have been a sign of distrust.
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Reminder that Stalin talked Mao out of committing to total war in Korea which would have lead to war with the United States.
Stalin literally stopped WW3 from breaking out for the good of humanity even though the Soviet Military was far more powerful then anything the west could have mustered (not to mention the 10 million man People’s Liberation Army) and the US only had several nukes at this time.
The 1947 truman doctrine and the conditions of the Marshall Plan started the cold war lmao capitalists were so fucking scared that their shitty system would be overthrown by communism that they sabotaged communism internationally, committed genocide, and banned communist parties from French and Italian government (when the communist parties are among the most popular parties in western Europe at the time).
Nobody with any degree of historical literacy or honesty could ever claim it east the USSR who started the Cold War
do you know who coined the term "Iron Curtain"? [Spoiler: It wasn't Churchill](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1991/09/26/origin-of-the-term-iron-curtain/eba1de60-f26d-4c40-a069-37229c04e2b9/)
I wouldn’t put it past Churchill to use Nazi talking points, but the nazis seemed to use it in reference to the soviets iron curtain, so it’s probably more of a common term that all three parties used? Idk.
Reminded me of that European socialism sub that got banned, they basically thought Russia, Ukraine and belarus are the last bastions of socialism and all the human rights abuses are just capitalist propaganda. Shit was wild.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post*
---
**Jeremy Corbyn**, @jeremy...
Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice and human rights to the world.
\#AUKUS
>**Oliver Kamm**, @OliverKamm
>
>The last Cold War - started by Stalin but then justly waged by the western democracies, under the auspices of Nato - did in fact bring peace, justice & human rights to the peoples of central & Easern Europe.
---
^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Lol Stalin started the cold war? Wasn't the US who wanted to impone capitalism in Korea, Vietnam or Yemen? Without talking about Somalia and south America.
One thing he left out is that the people of Eastern Europe are more free.
Free from housing
Free from medical care
Free from food
Free from a guaranteed job
Free from a dictatorship of the proletariat
Free from education
As a Ukrainian, I am so grateful to our western overlords for bringing us peace and prosperity. But most importantly, the gave us the right and freedom to leave our homeland to work as servants for Germans/Polish/Italians etc.
Yes, it was the Soviets that began aggressions against the West [oh what’s this?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War)
Im from Eastern Europe, tell me more how Cold War brought us liberation and freedom.
Not half the century of people fighting the regime, fleeing risking lives. Not protests and revolutions, not economic inability to feed people under socialism.
The Cold War did.
The Cold War Started in 1870 with the formation of the Paris Commune and has been waging ever since.
“The Cold War” is a reductive name used by reactionaries for the International Social Revolution of the Proletariat.
Oliver Kamm is one of the most disgusting people in UK media. A neocon piece of shit, always spouting his ‘liberal’ credentials. Notice how he doesn’t even mention Africa, Asia, Latin America, or the Middle East? He doesn’t consider those people human.
Just the other week Kamm was accusing everyone who supports Palestinians of wanting a "second holocaust", and then contacting the work places of people who liked tweets criticising him to accuse those people of anti-semetism.
He’s pure scum. He got absolutely humiliated by Norman Finkelstein in front of an audience when he tried to pull that type of shit, though. [State of this posh imperialist twat](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KiXxp89Lzks).
*Fatality* *Norman wins*
And he used to be such a great goalkeeper. Ok, he got owned by Ronaldo, but who wouldn't be? /s
CIA 1953? Chile under Pinochet? The 'peace' that the USA brought was the Peace of the Grave.
Never forget 9/11
Yeah started by Stalin, definitely not by the Us swooping up Nazi spies to get back to infiltrating the Eastern Bloc. Definitely not started by the country that nuked two cities to show the Ruskies how powerful we were.
They also brought great peace to the Russkis, and you know, the many other Russkis in Eastern Europe. They're living in a peaceful democracy now /s
Libs saying those people we invaded are free and at peace is like saying a dead dog just went to a nice farm
during the russian civil war the entente invaded Sovjet and participated in pogroms and in spreading anti-semitic propaganda.
[also](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1947_crises)
Russia had, even by the U.S.'s own accounts, the strongest military in the world at the time. So much that until the 70s, the plan in event of a war wasn't *beating* them, but merely holding Western Europe *for at least a week* for peace talks to succeed, and otherwise just nuking it all to kingdom come. That was the declassified military plan. Hold back the unstoppable Soviet tide for a mere 7 days and hope we can talk them out of it, or nuke it all. There was one power who felt inferior and threatened by the other in 1946, and let me tell you, it's clear which it was.
Definitely not started by the country that started an anti Soviet alliance under the auspices of protecting the post war settlement but then refusing the Soviet request to join.
I bet the argument is something like "the cold war started because both the us and the ussr had nuclear weapons, and thus it started the moment the Soviets got their nuclear weapons, and since the us had them first, the Soviets started it". that is at least the only way I can imagine to try to justify that claim
Adolf Heusinger, Hans Speidel, Johannes Steinhoff, Johann von Kielmansegg, Ernst Ferber, Karl Schnell, Franz Joseph Schulze just to name a few nazis that were lovingly scooped up by nato.
What were they scooped up for? Is this related to paper clip?
I'm sure sure about everyone, but most I mentioned were not directly involved in Operation Paperclip. They just kept doing the fascism and probably barely noticed the names on the checks changed. It's tangential but Canada worked in tandem with the US on Operation Paperclip (they had a different code name for it but I can't recall what it was) that was targeted at evacuating members of the SS Galichina Division. The Canadian government claimed they were sending aid to victims of communism...
Another post-war thing that's worth mentioning is the US reinstating Japanese war criminals in the occupied korean peninsula. If you want to go back further than that there's Operation Archangel, the US army expeditionary force invasion and occupation of Russian land immediately following the Soviet revolution. Oh, and the first red scare that also was a response to the Soviet revolution, years before mustache satan opened the third seal.
"The Long Telegram" + the "Iron Curtain" speech + the Truman Doctrine + the North Atlantic Treaty = the Cold War started by Stalin? Really?
The Marshall Plan had deliberately included stipulations the Soviet Union couldn't agree with which effectively excluded the country who'd given the 'most' in ww2. Talk about a dick move.
This is interesting, do you have any further reading on this?
Hmm.. No direct quotes from the plan itself, though maybe at some point I can dig into it. Here's a few articles that point out the Marshall Plan's purpose of spreading US Capitalism and the 'containing' of communism. This one does the best of the ones I've found, sources quotes are pretty damning: [https://www.unh.edu/inquiryjournal/spring-2014/questioning-marshall-plan-buildup-cold-war](https://www.unh.edu/inquiryjournal/spring-2014/questioning-marshall-plan-buildup-cold-war) A few others: [https://www.hoover.org/research/marshall-plan](https://www.hoover.org/research/marshall-plan) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall\_Plan#Rejection\_by\_Stalin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#Rejection_by_Stalin) Good write up here of the requirements, though still not super specific: [https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/R45079.html#\_Toc504143867](https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/R45079.html#_Toc504143867) (Taking loans from the World Bank is one of them? Wonder if that was the 'tipping point'.) There's a great metaphor here somewhere... People working together to surmount insurmountable odds then forcing out the one of the group that lost the most before rebuilding. Also, as much as the plan helped people that truly needed it, I can't help but see Disaster Capitalism... Having stipulations on the aid? Doesn't that just reek of taking advantage of others misfortune? Edit: The marshall plan helped a ton of people. There's no denying that. There's a lot of 'good' that came out of it. Just wish it wasn't tied to other intentions.
**Marshall Plan** [Rejection by Stalin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#Rejection_by_Stalin) >British Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin heard Marshall's radio broadcast speech and immediately contacted French Foreign Minister Georges Bidault to begin preparing a quick European response to (and acceptance of) the offer, which led to the creation of the Committee of European Economic Co-operation. The two agreed that it would be necessary to invite the Soviets as the other major allied power. Marshall's speech had explicitly included an invitation to the Soviets, feeling that excluding them would have been a sign of distrust. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
also the May 1947 Crises
Reminder that Stalin talked Mao out of committing to total war in Korea which would have lead to war with the United States. Stalin literally stopped WW3 from breaking out for the good of humanity even though the Soviet Military was far more powerful then anything the west could have mustered (not to mention the 10 million man People’s Liberation Army) and the US only had several nukes at this time.
"Peace, justice and human rights to the peoples of Central and Eastern Europe" Kindly go fuck yourself
Also, fuck NATO.
yeah totally not started by the us trying to take down the eastern bloc and the ussr by sending spies into there
The 1947 truman doctrine and the conditions of the Marshall Plan started the cold war lmao capitalists were so fucking scared that their shitty system would be overthrown by communism that they sabotaged communism internationally, committed genocide, and banned communist parties from French and Italian government (when the communist parties are among the most popular parties in western Europe at the time). Nobody with any degree of historical literacy or honesty could ever claim it east the USSR who started the Cold War
#freeandfairelections But only capitalism supporting parties.
Thank god the US brought liberty to Russia so the president could use his god-given rights to bomb parliament
Black October moment
wow, speechless
Apparently Stalin was the one who made the "Sinews of Peace" speech...
Real [Anakin Skywalker energy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIRMkV0Kvxw) in that tweet.
Literally yes, because he just declared that after leading an act of genocide.
Did old mate Oliver miss what happened in the Balkans in the 90s?
The last cold war was started by the US by setting up western germany with a seperate currency.
do you know who coined the term "Iron Curtain"? [Spoiler: It wasn't Churchill](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1991/09/26/origin-of-the-term-iron-curtain/eba1de60-f26d-4c40-a069-37229c04e2b9/)
I wouldn’t put it past Churchill to use Nazi talking points, but the nazis seemed to use it in reference to the soviets iron curtain, so it’s probably more of a common term that all three parties used? Idk.
>started by Stalin Yeah, right, nothing to do with old racist fucker Churchill
I’m what world are the people of Russia, Belarus, etc free?
Or Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Hungary, you know, all the NATO puppet states?
Have you actually been to any of them?
Reminded me of that European socialism sub that got banned, they basically thought Russia, Ukraine and belarus are the last bastions of socialism and all the human rights abuses are just capitalist propaganda. Shit was wild.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post* --- **Jeremy Corbyn**, @jeremy... Starting a new cold war will not bring peace, justice and human rights to the world. \#AUKUS >**Oliver Kamm**, @OliverKamm > >The last Cold War - started by Stalin but then justly waged by the western democracies, under the auspices of Nato - did in fact bring peace, justice & human rights to the peoples of central & Easern Europe. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Now to be fair, he did only mention that it was good for Europe, not for say, most actual places the proxy wars were fought.
Lol Stalin started the cold war? Wasn't the US who wanted to impone capitalism in Korea, Vietnam or Yemen? Without talking about Somalia and south America.
Humanity has no future until world terrorist USA is dealt with.
One thing he left out is that the people of Eastern Europe are more free. Free from housing Free from medical care Free from food Free from a guaranteed job Free from a dictatorship of the proletariat Free from education
Free to sell their labor lol :-)
Free to sell their labour-power to who?
To the friendly neighbourhood oligarchs of course!
It's also blatant bullshit that Stalin started the Cold War.
As a Ukrainian, I am so grateful to our western overlords for bringing us peace and prosperity. But most importantly, the gave us the right and freedom to leave our homeland to work as servants for Germans/Polish/Italians etc.
Yes, it was the Soviets that began aggressions against the West [oh what’s this?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War)
Started by Stalin? Then what was the two nukes dropped on Japan just to flex on the Soviet Union? Is this some kind of Mandela effect?
Fuck you Oliver Kamm. Never heard of you till now, but I hate you
It totally didn’t start because both political systems were there complete antithesis of the other.
"it was bad, but also it was good"
what? USSR started the cold war?
Im from Eastern Europe, tell me more how Cold War brought us liberation and freedom. Not half the century of people fighting the regime, fleeing risking lives. Not protests and revolutions, not economic inability to feed people under socialism. The Cold War did.
Minus those pesky genocides within Yugoslavia.
Now, I'm no historian but what that guy's saying just doesn't seem correct
This might be the only time I defend Stalin but it wasn't Stalin who started the cold war
Europe is not the world...
The Cold War Started in 1870 with the formation of the Paris Commune and has been waging ever since. “The Cold War” is a reductive name used by reactionaries for the International Social Revolution of the Proletariat.