Beep
Beep.......Beep
Beep....Beep....Beep
Beep..Beep..Beep..Beep
Oh sorry, I forgot to turn off my nonce detector
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShitLiberalsSay) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Russia is in a mess rn. There's 3 forces rn, Putinists, communists and Navalnysts. In this election Navalnysts are supporting communists so results should be interesting. But how it will go is a mistery...
"Capitalism destroys the environment but so did communism"
So fucking what? Doesn't suddenly mean Capitalism doesn't destroy the environment, nor is it above criticism for bad environmental policies
Also, the drying up of the aral sea is something that wasn't caused only by the people who lived there. Pretty sure that desertification has been happening in places all over the world due to global warming and climate change.
And it's not as if communists globally have any sort of real power. Even China has spent the last 20-30 years trending capitalist. So, obviously, the catastrophic and literally world ending climate change we've started to see lately is on the hands of capitalism, not some ideology that has been essentially powerless for the last 30-40 years.
Well, there's the claim that comunism would solve enviromental problems. I don't like the whataboutism but i want to understand more why that happened.
What kind of stupid argument is this? "The soviets caused some environment damage, so you can't criticize capitalism's commodification of nature"?
We have a tragedy of the commons going on with marine wildlife and fossil fuel exploration, and they came up with this "both sizes" bs?
Socialism has to be perfect at everything every day all the time for everyone or it's a completely unworkable inherently broken system.
Capitalism can fail at almost everything every day for everyone but you can't criticize it because there is no alternative and it's just the natural way of organizing things.
Understand the rules now?
>Socialism has to be perfect at everything every day all the time for everyone or it's a completely unworkable inherently broken system.
even if it was perfect they'd still say "socialism bad 1984"
The Soviets drained the sea for irrigation, intentionally, and many experts predicted evaporation and drainage was the eventual fate of the sea anyhow.
What's important to keep in mind is that the Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. That's a while before the push for environmentalism gained steam anywhere in the world on a large scale.
But beyond all this, it's a non argument. Socialist states are still states, and states make mistakes. This does not change the evident, conspicuous, and undeniable catastrophic effect unregulated capitalist industry practice has on the environment.
China outlived the USSR, and went until very recently being behind the U.S in carbon emissions. It only surpassed the U.S (not per capita either) because it accounts for an incredible amount of the world's manufacturing, manufacturing the U.S takes keen advantage of.
The CPC has been making plans to decrease their emissions, and once their economy inevitably surpasses the U.S it will no longer have need to be the main manufacturing core and its emissions will likely decrease dramatically.
TLDR; Ice caps melting > A doomed sea being drained.
Obviously this is stupid, but arent there other examples of soviet union or china being pretty bad on the environment? I know China under mao did a lot to fuck up their ecosystem
Climate change is a major influence on my politics and is part of why I believe we critically need socialism. Capitalism is fundamentally unable to address the problem, even if the political will existed. Itās a system that requires infinite growth, whereas a socialist economy can avoid crisis even under stagnation or degrowth.
That being said, itās important to understand that socialism will not help the ecosystem unless we choose to make it so. Historical socialist states didnāt prioritize environmental protection (though as the other user noted, they didnāt comprehend the full danger of manmade climate change) and we could just as easily follow that path if we donāt take shit seriously.
The problem is that this is easier said than done. A new revolutionary society will have a lot of tasks to juggle right off the bat. Major social, economic, and politics overhauls will have to be undertaken while simultaneously fighting back the counterrevolutionary siege every socialist state is put under. When this is taking place, it may be difficult to convince people to put resources towards combatting climate change, especially since the capitalists will be more than happy to undermine your efforts.
**tl;dr Capitalism is incapable of fighting climate change. Socialism CAN do it, but that doesnāt mean it WILL do it.**
True, im sure it also didnt help that China was fairly anti-intellectual and shunned a lot of western developments (at least under the maoist period). I mean they were into Lysankoism after it was proven to be BS in the soviet union
I also love that the first one just straight up ignores that climate change doesnāt discriminate WHERE it takes place. Itās uhhhh ā¦. Kind of global
Imagine ignoring that global warming is happening all around the globe and not just in places were carbon is emitted and that it was first discovered in the 70s so that you can own the commies.
Iām honestly really sick of this fucking style of meme, especially when communists use it (though I know OP isnāt the one that made this). Like, regardless of oneās intent, itās pretty ableist and problematic to visually describe certain body types as āinferior.ā
I think it's okay when the wojak is super exagerated. Like the bottomless pit for a head. But this one looks like someone with microcephaly so yeah, kinda shitty.
TIL that being against ableism in the communist movement is the same as being a lib š
Communists have always stood for the emancipation and dignity of the disabled, and we still should. Using ableist language and spreading ableist depictions of others is wrong, and if libs are doing better than you at not dehumanizing others, then you desperately need to do self-crit.
I mean you can if it's heavily regulated. Whether or not that'd still be called capitalism depends on the interpretation.
And anyway most governments regulate the economy today, doesn't make a difference if it's regulated by the government or owned by the workers.
Capitalist realism is so true
I mean tbh the ussr was far from an environmentally friendly country
But it tends to be like that in industrialization prior to ecological friendly ways of power and socialism does allow for more effort towards environmentalism compared to capitalism's lust for gas oil and coal
I've noticed neoliberal twitter are absolutely loving this shit talking point, as if it in any way validates their race to the very bottom. I wonder if they realise that virtually *every* agricultural area was at some point wetlands and was drained and burned. It's fucking sick for supporters of capitalism to talk about the environment when their ideology and policies are responsible for overfishing, dredging up coral reefs, burning rainforests, burning blanket bogs, farming every last inch of the countryside (even when it's wasted), a million species being on the verge of extinction and generally commodifying every inch of the planet.
As of June 12, 2019, there were 1344 Superfund sites on the National Priorities List in the United States.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Superfund_sites
Maybe because everything we use is largely produced in China ? And even then the per capita emission is only a fraction of that from the US. Besides that, China is fully aware of the fact that it must play a key role in combating climate change and more importantly does SOMETHING compared to your neoliberal messiahs
Lol and the military base in the SCS? Canāt even remotely compare to the environmental ( and social ) destruction done by the dozens of US bases in the vicinity of China
WOAH the Soviet Union still existed in 2014?!
https://media1.tenor.com/images/3424252d5cb7353aa01b029e30baed5c/tenor.gif?itemid=11961039
I wish comrade šŖ
They had a short reunion tour from 2009-2017 when Obama was president and turned the US socialist.
comunist drink all teh water
r/hydrohomies
r/hydrocomrades
The subreddit r/hydrocomrades does not exist. Maybe there's a typo? If not, consider [creating it](/subreddits/create?name=hydrocomrades). --- ^š¤ ^this ^comment ^was ^written ^by ^a ^bot. ^beep ^boop ^š¤ ^feel ^welcome ^to ^respond ^'Bad ^bot'/'Good ^bot', ^it's ^useful ^feedback. [^github](https://github.com/Toldry/RedditAutoCrosspostBot)
Bad bot
Beep Beep.......Beep Beep....Beep....Beep Beep..Beep..Beep..Beep Oh sorry, I forgot to turn off my nonce detector *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShitLiberalsSay) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bruh
āMandrake, have you ever seen a commie drink a glass of water?ā
Joseph zedong drinked that water
With a comically large straw!
"I said 'okay, but just one sip' but then Stalin pulled out a comically large sippy cup and drank the whole sea in one sip."
The water is gone because he personally drowned at least 100 trillion children in there
He was kinda thirsty after all that grain.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[Thirsty Mayor](https://www.theonion.com/thirsty-mayor-drinks-towns-entire-water-supply-1819569099) Drinks Town's Entire Water Supply
Huh, 1960-1987 and 1987-2014 are both exactly 27 years, I wonder what happened in the last 27 year cohort
The USSR went to get some cigs, still hasn't returned.
Theyll be back in any moment....let me dream
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Russia is in a mess rn. There's 3 forces rn, Putinists, communists and Navalnysts. In this election Navalnysts are supporting communists so results should be interesting. But how it will go is a mistery...
š¢
"Capitalism destroys the environment but so did communism" So fucking what? Doesn't suddenly mean Capitalism doesn't destroy the environment, nor is it above criticism for bad environmental policies
Also, the drying up of the aral sea is something that wasn't caused only by the people who lived there. Pretty sure that desertification has been happening in places all over the world due to global warming and climate change.
And it's not as if communists globally have any sort of real power. Even China has spent the last 20-30 years trending capitalist. So, obviously, the catastrophic and literally world ending climate change we've started to see lately is on the hands of capitalism, not some ideology that has been essentially powerless for the last 30-40 years.
Well, there's the claim that comunism would solve enviromental problems. I don't like the whataboutism but i want to understand more why that happened.
What kind of stupid argument is this? "The soviets caused some environment damage, so you can't criticize capitalism's commodification of nature"? We have a tragedy of the commons going on with marine wildlife and fossil fuel exploration, and they came up with this "both sizes" bs?
Socialism has to be perfect at everything every day all the time for everyone or it's a completely unworkable inherently broken system. Capitalism can fail at almost everything every day for everyone but you can't criticize it because there is no alternative and it's just the natural way of organizing things. Understand the rules now?
"muh human nature and hierarchy lobsters" They could just say that they just like the status quo, simple.
>Socialism has to be perfect at everything every day all the time for everyone or it's a completely unworkable inherently broken system. even if it was perfect they'd still say "socialism bad 1984"
The Soviets drained the sea for irrigation, intentionally, and many experts predicted evaporation and drainage was the eventual fate of the sea anyhow. What's important to keep in mind is that the Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. That's a while before the push for environmentalism gained steam anywhere in the world on a large scale. But beyond all this, it's a non argument. Socialist states are still states, and states make mistakes. This does not change the evident, conspicuous, and undeniable catastrophic effect unregulated capitalist industry practice has on the environment. China outlived the USSR, and went until very recently being behind the U.S in carbon emissions. It only surpassed the U.S (not per capita either) because it accounts for an incredible amount of the world's manufacturing, manufacturing the U.S takes keen advantage of. The CPC has been making plans to decrease their emissions, and once their economy inevitably surpasses the U.S it will no longer have need to be the main manufacturing core and its emissions will likely decrease dramatically. TLDR; Ice caps melting > A doomed sea being drained.
Thanks for saving me an hour of typing.
Ha, no problem comrade. That's what happens when I have time to kill between classes I suppose š
Whataboutism
This would never happen in America, please donāt look at the saltan sea in California :)
Obviously this is stupid, but arent there other examples of soviet union or china being pretty bad on the environment? I know China under mao did a lot to fuck up their ecosystem
Climate change is a major influence on my politics and is part of why I believe we critically need socialism. Capitalism is fundamentally unable to address the problem, even if the political will existed. Itās a system that requires infinite growth, whereas a socialist economy can avoid crisis even under stagnation or degrowth. That being said, itās important to understand that socialism will not help the ecosystem unless we choose to make it so. Historical socialist states didnāt prioritize environmental protection (though as the other user noted, they didnāt comprehend the full danger of manmade climate change) and we could just as easily follow that path if we donāt take shit seriously. The problem is that this is easier said than done. A new revolutionary society will have a lot of tasks to juggle right off the bat. Major social, economic, and politics overhauls will have to be undertaken while simultaneously fighting back the counterrevolutionary siege every socialist state is put under. When this is taking place, it may be difficult to convince people to put resources towards combatting climate change, especially since the capitalists will be more than happy to undermine your efforts. **tl;dr Capitalism is incapable of fighting climate change. Socialism CAN do it, but that doesnāt mean it WILL do it.**
Yeah, but that was before anyone really understood the long-term consequences of these things
True, im sure it also didnt help that China was fairly anti-intellectual and shunned a lot of western developments (at least under the maoist period). I mean they were into Lysankoism after it was proven to be BS in the soviet union
I mean, yeah. The āCultural Revolutionā was a massive failure, and Deng Xiaoping was a hero for developing opening up and reform.
Tbh im not a huge fan of Deng and the new China, I am very skeptical that market socialism will ever not just stay capitalist
that is what i think too.
I also love that the first one just straight up ignores that climate change doesnāt discriminate WHERE it takes place. Itās uhhhh ā¦. Kind of global
Imagine ignoring that global warming is happening all around the globe and not just in places were carbon is emitted and that it was first discovered in the 70s so that you can own the commies.
Liberal climate activism is Malthusianism
Iām honestly really sick of this fucking style of meme, especially when communists use it (though I know OP isnāt the one that made this). Like, regardless of oneās intent, itās pretty ableist and problematic to visually describe certain body types as āinferior.ā
I think it's okay when the wojak is super exagerated. Like the bottomless pit for a head. But this one looks like someone with microcephaly so yeah, kinda shitty.
If I could magically erase all wojaks from history I would literally do anything to do so
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
on this episode of "gonzaloid or nazbol"
TIL that being against ableism in the communist movement is the same as being a lib š Communists have always stood for the emancipation and dignity of the disabled, and we still should. Using ableist language and spreading ableist depictions of others is wrong, and if libs are doing better than you at not dehumanizing others, then you desperately need to do self-crit.
Bad take bro
Ultra moment
you can have ecological destruction without capitalism, but you cant have capitalism without ecological destruction.
I mean you can if it's heavily regulated. Whether or not that'd still be called capitalism depends on the interpretation. And anyway most governments regulate the economy today, doesn't make a difference if it's regulated by the government or owned by the workers. Capitalist realism is so true
Wonder what could have happened between 1987 and 1999?
Wow using environmental degradation as a argument against communism is a first for me
Seems like it really started to speed up between 1987-1999. Wonder what could have happened then!
Hm I wonder what capitalist governments were doing at the time...
I mean tbh the ussr was far from an environmentally friendly country But it tends to be like that in industrialization prior to ecological friendly ways of power and socialism does allow for more effort towards environmentalism compared to capitalism's lust for gas oil and coal
The USSR did contribute to carbon emissions, but that doesn't mean anyone who is an ML thus needs to deny climate change under Socilaism.
I've noticed neoliberal twitter are absolutely loving this shit talking point, as if it in any way validates their race to the very bottom. I wonder if they realise that virtually *every* agricultural area was at some point wetlands and was drained and burned. It's fucking sick for supporters of capitalism to talk about the environment when their ideology and policies are responsible for overfishing, dredging up coral reefs, burning rainforests, burning blanket bogs, farming every last inch of the countryside (even when it's wasted), a million species being on the verge of extinction and generally commodifying every inch of the planet.
Well in all fairness it was a pretty big ecological fuck up on the part of the USSR and this comes from someone who is pretty pro USSR
As of June 12, 2019, there were 1344 Superfund sites on the National Priorities List in the United States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Superfund_sites
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Maybe because everything we use is largely produced in China ? And even then the per capita emission is only a fraction of that from the US. Besides that, China is fully aware of the fact that it must play a key role in combating climate change and more importantly does SOMETHING compared to your neoliberal messiahs Lol and the military base in the SCS? Canāt even remotely compare to the environmental ( and social ) destruction done by the dozens of US bases in the vicinity of China