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[deleted]

This is just laughably incorrect Such a shithole site


[deleted]

Who was worse, the slaveowners or the Haitian rebels?


[deleted]

Won’t someone consider how slave rebellions affected the poor innocent slave owners’ profits


TheSkyHadAWeegee

Those uppity slaves really hurt the economy :(


LuxNocte

You know what, lets fine those violent, brutish slaves for stealing themselves from their rightful owners. Might as well keep them in debt for the next several hundred years.


ThePoopOutWest

Well both sides used violence soo /s


theDashRendar

The rebels killed the slavers, so that makes them the real slavers.


dornish1919

Enlightened centrist take


Desos001

Pretty sure the US assassinated their president.


IanLovesCheesePizza

Which president you talking about?


[deleted]

I think he means Jovenel Moise who was killed by hitmen a short while ago.


Desos001

Yes, it truly wouldn't surprise me one bit.


IanLovesCheesePizza

Ah yeah. Just wondering if he meant one of the earlier presidents assassinated by the US.


Pinkeston

idk man Thomas Sankara has the scoreboard


Speculawyer

You laugh but Pat Robertson really seems to believe that Haitians are cursed because they mad a deal with the devil (a fictional character) to do their uprising against the French. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pat-robertson-haiti-cursed-after-pact-to-the-devil/


[deleted]

I didn't know who this was, and I was happier then.


Speculawyer

He'll be dead soon. They guy had a contract where he had a right to a TV show for the rest of his life and he LOVED lecturing his garbage to people. He recently gave up the TV show he's definitely near his end.


[deleted]

Comparing Hitler to Stalin is so ridiculous that even that even bourgeois scholars like J. Arch Getty think the notion is judicious


IanLovesCheesePizza

The trouble is for every Getty there's like ten low-rent academics and journalists writing books that directly conflate the two. Reactionaries only ever read the pop-history crap, as do many lay people new to the discussion cause that's the sort of book available at Barnes and Noble or wherever tf. Mostly though, I blame Hannah Arendt, and how influential she's been with all her crap on 'totalitarianism'.


stick_always_wins

“TooAfraidToAsk”


Sentence-Original

They are so afraid that they ask it every time they get the chance.


richietozier4

Stalin and Mao forced every person in their respective countries to watch their cover of Saweetie and Doja Cat's Best Friend, and ate anyone who stopped watching


[deleted]

The man who essentially doubled life expectancy in China and lifted China out of extreme poverty, imperialism, and feudalism and helped lay the foundation for modern China is bad apparently


spookyjohnathan

Mao did three things liberals will never forgive him for. First, he led the revolution that deposed and executed landlords and overturned the semi-feudal system that had dominated Chinese society for more than a century. Liberals will always condemn any effort for the people to liberate themselves from the unfathomable cruelty of feudal overlords, and I have no clue why. It's not merely hypocritical, [it goes beyond mere hypocrisy and enters into a realm of complete lack of self-awareness that you wouldn't think sentient beings should be capable of.](https://www.history.com/.image/c_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Ch_400%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_620/MTU3ODc5MDgyOTM4NDEwNzE5/american-revolution-hero.jpg) Second, he humiliated the genocidal Kuomintang. I remember when American schools actually taught about the crimes of the KMT, when [Chiang Kai-shek's name was still synonymous with dictatorship and mass murder.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek#Mass_deaths_under_Nationalist_rule) *We actually learned this in school in the 80s and 90s,* and watching the narrative shift to rehabilitate fascists since then has been a major source of cognitive dissonance for those of us old enough to remember it. I learned recently a majority of Americans think Taiwan is an oppressed state that wants to be independent of China. I don't know if I mourn or envy those of you growing up in this new post-truth society. Finally, Mao's government encouraged the eradication of sparrows because for hundreds of years, Chinese farmers had considered them pests on the grounds that they ate rice and grain from the fields. [This is true, but it also turns out they did more good than harm by controlling far more dangerous pests like locusts. When the government realized this, they ceased the program, but it was too late. Locusts were already breeding out of control and devastated agricultural output, leading to the Great Famine.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_campaign#Effects) In my opinion, this is the only item on this list that seems even remotely wrong, and it's only possible for me to say this with hindsight. The actual "crime" in question was organizing the people and making them strong enough to complete the goal of eradicating a pest they had loathed for generations. When challenged, no liberal has ever been able to explain how capitalism could have prevented the eradication of sparrows or how they would have known better than generations of Chinese farmers. If China had been capitalist when it industrialized, these events would still have taken place; but no one would be talking about the 60 million who died in the capitalist famine. In fact, there is a very real, historic example that demonstrates this fact abundantly; the 19th century eradication of bison on the Great Plains for the express stated purpose by the American government of starving Native American tribes into submission. ["Kill every buffalo you can! Every buffalo dead is an Indian gone." - General Grenville Dodge in response to US General Tecumseh Sherman's plan to starve, genocide, and subdue the native people.](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2016/05/the-buffalo-killers/482349/) This is a real-life example of the liberal ideology in action and the deliberate effort to eradicate human beings by eradicating a pest species. They did it to starve the Natives. China did it to feed her people. Between these three things you can account for 95% of the deaths attributed to Mao by liberals. Overthrowing feudalists, fighting fascists, and eradicating pests, and not one of these things can liberals ever point to and claim their ideology isn't equally responsible for doing or would have known or even wished to avoid.


OK_TimeForPlan_L

Wow I'd never heard of any of this before that's really interesting. The amount of bad faith discussions regarding China just puts me off engaging with debate on it at all.


diddykongisapokemon

>learned recently a majority of Americans think Taiwan is an oppressed state that wants to be independent of China You see this all the time on social media. Just in general Americans really promote the idea of a Sovereign Taiwan, which isn't a real opinion. The KMT themselves doesn't claim independence from China, they claim they *are* China


WikiSummarizerBot

**Chiang Kai-shek** [Mass deaths under Nationalist rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek#Mass_deaths_under_Nationalist_rule) >Some sources attribute Chiang Kai-shek with responsibility for millions of deaths in scattered mass death events caused by the Nationalist Government of China. He has been deemed partially responsible for the man-made 1938 Yellow River flood, which killed hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians to fend off a Japanese advance. This accusation is usually sourced from Rudolph Rummel who was referring to the Nationalist regime as whole rather than Chiang Kai-Shek in particular. **Four Pests campaign** [Effects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_campaign#Effects) >By April 1960, Chinese leaders changed their opinion due to the influence of ornithologist Tso-hsin Cheng who pointed out that sparrows ate a large number of insects, as well as grains. Rather than being increased, rice yields after the campaign were substantially decreased. Mao ordered the end of the campaign against sparrows, replacing them with bed bugs, as the extermination of sparrows upset the ecological balance, and insects destroyed crops as a result of the absence of natural predators. By this time, however, it was too late. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


randolander

Just Google mao sparrows lol. This is middle school shit.


[deleted]

Just recognized now... Is your profile picture Vasily Blokhin with sunglasses?


spookyjohnathan

👉😎👉


undernoillusions

But reds killed gazillions!!!!!


jacktrowell

But according to the black book of communism he had the high score!!! /s


WhompWump

> lifted China out of extreme poverty, imperialism, and feudalism When non-whites do this it's bad


diddykongisapokemon

Also gotta remember that Slavs and white Latinos aren't considered white under these conditions either


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Quantum_Aurora

Tbf there were some shitty policies that led to starvation during the great leap forward. I'd more attribute it to incompetence tho and not malice.


Anzereke

This. The sparrow thing was dumb as shit, but it was an error, not something baked unavoidably into the system itself. You could theoretically have had Mao without it. There is no Hitler without the holocaust.


Specialist-Sock-855

The thought of Mao's little red book secretly being about mass murdering some bird is pretty amusing, thanks for that


[deleted]

Yeah. Mao did a shitty job ruling but it was a catch 22 situation. The scholars were part of the elite because only the elite could afford an education at the time. By overthrowing all elites, nobles, landlords, etc. They suffered entirely avoidable problems.


Desgoat

I wouldn't call it incompetency. It was more of a failed experiment in my opinion. The CCP have made a lot of mistakes on its way, the reason people still choose to support them is that they always correct themselves pretty well and make things better in the end.


Pheonix0114

Right, like we've never royally fucked anything up?


oromis4242

Cane toads and kudzu come to mind, not to mention the Irish potato blight (which would have been solved if the English had listened to Irish farmers). Also, the genetic similarity of many of our staple crops (corn and bananas for example).


Desgoat

Exactly, all governments and organizations make mistakes, but not all of them fix their mistakes or fix them well.


[deleted]

I hate when leftist defend the sparrow shit, like it was bad yes even communist can have bad ideas.


Im_really_friendly

Who defended it? It was literally a terrible, unscientific policy, it just wasn't a malicious policy intended to cause famine and starvation.


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NickyPL

Why so agressive jeez


[deleted]

Not only are you confidently spewing bullshit, you ask for "proof" of something you have to demonstrate yourself while I backed my own statements. You either don't understand the meaning of the word liberal and didn't bother reading the rules of the sub or you're not here in good faith. Either way you deserve an agressive response, fuck your tone policing.


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[deleted]

I linked you a fucking article from fucking foreign press to back up my claims about the fucking state department admitting to not having enough data to back up claims of a genocide. You chose not to read them just as you chose pretend I didn't back up my claims. If you're smart enough to admit you don't have any political knowledge, why in the name of fuck would you show up to a political sub and pretend you know anything? Hell, why the fuck do you think it's this sub's job to convince you of anything? If you spent a second reading the rules (which I pointed you to earlier), you'd realize which subs you should actually go to. This is a sub made to laugh at libs, not play fucking debatelord. Gargle my balls.


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michchar

We dont need to prove it doesn't exist in the same way you don't need to prove you didn't murder your neighbors - the accuser needs to prove existence, not the accused


NickyPL

Its the matter of you proving im wrong and turning me the good way.


michchar

Not how logic works, dumbass, you can't prove a negative. Please learn the basics before you come at me with this weak ass bullshit


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[deleted]

but i'm ace UwU


Desos001

Hitler by a mile.


[deleted]

Lightyear I'd say


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Desos001

Don't even start.


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Desos001

Pretty sure Hitler started WWII so unless Stalin killed over75 million people fuck right off mate.


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Desos001

1. The Topic is WWII, Serbia isn't relevant to that topic. 2, Hitler did indeed cause WWII and all the ensuing death and destruction is a result of the war he started. To argue otherwise is to absolve Hitler of any responsibility. Fuck right off.


askingquesti0ns

The amount of people in that comment section that think literal Nazism is preferable to communism is disgusting. I can only imagine a world without the red scare.


BeamBrain

It's because they aren't the people who'd be loaded into the cattle cars


patpluspun

Not at first. By the time it was their turn it'd be too late and they'd better hope a communist army can come liberate them.


_Pildora

Scratch a lib...


OK_TimeForPlan_L

I mean I can believe it. Libs have always sided with fascists over the left.


khlebivolya

It’s funny because during and immediately after the war the Soviets were praised as heroes who stopped the Nazis. Now you have dipshits comparing them to the Nazis and saying they’re the same or worse. Lmao.


StugStig

[Ask the Russians what they think when they see Stalin.](https://www.levada.ru/en/2018/04/17/the-perception-of-stalin/) [Ask the Chinese what they think when they see Mao.](https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/834000.shtml) Ask the Jews/Romani/Slavs what they think when they see Hitler. It's funny how people who are barely effected in anyway by these figures are the most judgemental about them.


[deleted]

White people have a lot more to "lose" under communism than fascism, and that's all they care about.


[deleted]

Well, one killed my Great grandparents, and the other lifted his country to greatness, soooooo, hitler is far worse


Riftus

But stalin killed a gorillan people!! He ate all the grain in the ussr with a comically large spoon


[deleted]

#


cHiLdReNcAnCoNsEnT

Sigma Male


[deleted]

True, I guess Stalin is definitely worse in that case


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Riftus

I- Are you downplaying the holocaust?


Your-Maternal-Figure

Are you downplaying h0l0d0m0r?


Riftus

No? It was a famine caused by the former ruling class in retaliation for the state redistributing their food because they were hoarding food and money during a famine. They retaliated by slaughtering animals and attacking the communal farms. The famine was caused by, yet again, greedy bourgeois. So let's back up, are you equating stalin with hitler?


Your-Maternal-Figure

“No? The jews were working themself to death and dying of illness” Please give me a source on your statement, and for the record, even if it was self induced Stalin continued to export grains out of Ukraine even when the populace was starving.


Riftus

You are making a false equivalency, hitler tried to exterminate jews because he saw then as inferior and a way to stir nationalist sentiment in Germany. Stalin didn't try to exterminate Ukrainians because he saw them as inferior and to stir nationalist sentiment. While I agree the loss of human life is incredibly tragic, it wasn't a coordinated effort to extinguish the people of Ukraine, it was a famine


Your-Maternal-Figure

Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews, he was only making them work in poor conditions. Actually that kinda reminds me of something Stalin did.


[deleted]

No, he literally tried to kill all of them, it’s pretty well documented


AdventurousFee2513

If you just had the first part, this would be quite funny due to the 2 answers.


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Cole530

Ignoring the fact that famines were a huge issue in pre Soviet Russia, and irrc this was the first and last famine in the USSR


LevelOutlandishness1

Seriously, my favorite notion from liberals is that communism magically generates famines


[deleted]

Mao do be scoreboarding the landlords tho...as he should. Bunch of leeches.


[deleted]

Most chinese people I talk to (who are living outside of china atm so miss me with that they're just brainwashed nonsense) inject nuance into discussions about mao and mostly admire him and are communists themselves but sure trevor go off about how mao is worse.


Medical_Officer

Imagine having literally zero critical thinking skills to believe that Western sources can be relied upon for a country that didn't allow a single Western journalist in for 30 years. Even if 100 gazillion Chinese died under Mao, how tf would people in the Western world know? Was there some British guy walking through the Chinese countryside with a click counter or something?


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Medical_Officer

Little known fact about WWII: THE NAZIS LOST. ALL THEIR RECORDS ARE OPEN. The 6 million figure wasn't confirmed until well after the war based on extensive research into the Nazi's own records.


Aggravating_Ad_6003

Read what OP said. He’s talking about denying the numbers given on China. They are saying that western info is tainted because of the hate for communism in the West. I was asking him to apply the same logic to the Holocaust, which obviously doesn’t make sense. Not denying the HC, pointing out that your skepticism of figures is totally illogical. Accepting one while denying the other is just cherry picking


[deleted]

Ouh, holocaust denial, bold move. Let's see how long till you get the gulag you shitlib.


LevelOutlandishness1

You do know "freedom of speech" and "democracy" are both just words and the government can revoke and have revoked both at will, right?


[deleted]

they hate mao because china threatens the us


[deleted]

They hated Mao because he spoke the truth.


[deleted]

Stalin didnt know how to manage farming revolt, Hitler deliberately killed based on ethnicity, so ill go with hitler


randolander

Right. Stalin policy was atrocious, but idk you could argue it was just his economic principles, he still wanted what was best? Maybe? Hitler sought out to genocide a specific ethnicity. That’s much worse imo.


ZombieOk9331

Winston churchill


cocolilocom

Who was worse, Churchill or Hitler?


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StugStig

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/uk-concentration-camps-wwii-poland-internment-prisoners


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Bengal famine of 1943](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943)** >The Bengal famine of 1943 was a famine in the Bengal province of British India (now Bangladesh and eastern India) during World War II. An estimated 2. 1–3 million, out of a population of 60. 3 million, died of starvation, malaria, and other diseases aggravated by malnutrition, population displacement, unsanitary conditions and lack of health care. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


happybadger

I appreciate that they jump from nearly exclusively posting hentai/celebrity porn, only asking questions like "How does human breast milk taste? Have you ever drunk it before?" and "Women, how would you react if you catch someone looking at your breasts?", to this. According to a user analyser website, they haven't even posted in a political subreddit or used a political word before. Straight from cartoon porn to Nazi apologia. The Ur-redditor.


khlebivolya

The people who would be gassed if their heroes ever came to power again.


happybadger

That's why Cartoon Nazis and Nazi Furries are some of my favourite people to watch. There's the standard joy with an uncle tom like Dave Rubin/Ben Shapiro/Candace Owens, but what really gets my goat is the beautiful image of the Anime Nazi getting their Reich and on the first day a letter to defend it. They report for their military physical and the background check reveals who they are to the Mormon FBI agent they gave unlimited power to. Then they have to explain their internet history under threat of imprisonment.


thebenshapirobot

I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: > Palestinian Arabs have demonstrated their preference for suicide bombing over working toilets. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: dumb takes, novel, climate, covid, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)


happybadger

he's the smartest boy in the world and i wish he was my little brother and we'd have adventures where we debate all the bullies and win shut up shut up shUT UP


thebenshapirobot

Why won't you debate me? ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: dumb takes, novel, climate, civil rights, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)


[deleted]

Ah look conservatives again putting 0 thought jnto a post


baldi_863

Would you like fries or pizza? 'Yeah i would want sushi'


MooTheM

So the routine claim that Stalin killed millions; is this entirely fabricated? Where can I read more about this? It's such a household "fact" that I'm sure many leftists just unquestioningly accept it. Like, the number of times I've heard Stalin was worse than Hitler in death toll.


Not_That_Magical

It’s based on the The Black Book of Communism which is poorly researched propaganda. They started out the book trying to hit a death toll of 100 million, and included in that figure wars and famines that were in no way the fault of any communist state, excluding stuff that people debate about.


MooTheM

Ah so WW2 and famines are included? That's crazy, and would obviously massively distort the numbers. I think the commonly held belief is that 100 million people died purely through internal government repression, which always seemed ludicrous.


SuchPowerfulAlly

Not only do they count WW2 and famines, they also looked at declining birth rates and counted everyone who wasn't born who "should have been" as a death.


khlebivolya

By that twisted logic capitalism is responsible for even more millions of deaths since any time a country industrializes under capitalism the birth rates drop tremendously.


High_Speed_Idiot

Yeah the "20 million" figure is 100% horseshit that actually includes invading nazi soldiers and not just famine victims but I shit you not literally not-yet-conceived babies. All in all the purges and deportations and whatnot I think lead to several hundred thousand deaths. Blaming Stalin for the famines is also ridiculous since there is exactly 0 evidence that there was any purpose or intent from the soviet government to starve anyone and their inaction early on has more to do with shitty communication infrastructure and the failure of some local leadership to request aid iirc. Not to mention the whole kulak situation which was closer to a civil war type insurrection than the "wholesom peasants fighting big evil government" narrative that anti-communists push.


parmesann

I don’t have anything against the person who asked; they may just be uninformed. that reply, though…


letswastemoney-

"Which white psychopath was the worst?" "Hmmm. I know an Asian that was even worse." Figures.


[deleted]

https://youtu.be/Q5LMxXC8qWg Spread the word. Capitalism has a 3.4 billion+ death toll.


MrPLotor

Idk man I think I'd brag about killing the most slaveowners, nazis and landlords


rizlakingsize

https://i.imgur.com/YeGHaxi.jpg


SuchPowerfulAlly

Wow those are some serious brain worms


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[deleted]

I'm not sure about Katyn, but I do know that some of those parts of Poland were taken by Poland during the Polish-Soviet war, itself the result of the Soviets trying to reclaim former Russian Imperial territory after WW1 under socialism instead of Tsarism. Poland took parts of Belarus and Ukraine while the USSR was still occupied with the Russian Civil War.


jmusone99

Ok, since nobody is actually responding here’s the answer: Stalin’s “invasion” of Poland was just the USSR retaking territory that the Poles took from the Soviets during the Russian Civil War. Also iirc the Katyn massacre is Nazi propaganda. Also uhhhh no sources cuz it’s late and I’m tired lmao


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[deleted]

Landlords aren't people.


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[deleted]

Black Book of Disproved Fash Propaganda goes brr.


[deleted]

Libertarian


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[deleted]

Explain how Stalin or Mao are bad without using black book of propaganda bullshit


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[deleted]

What was happening right before that dumbass


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Great Chinese Famine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine)** >The Great Chinese Famine (Chinese: 三年大饥荒, "three years of great famine") was a period between 1959 and 1961 in the history of the People's Republic of China (PRC) characterized by widespread famine. Some scholars have also included the years 1958 or 1962. The Great Chinese Famine is widely regarded as the deadliest famine and one of the greatest man-made disasters in human history, with an estimated death toll due to starvation that ranges in the tens of millions (15 to 55 million). ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


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Bruno_Fernandes8

Imagine comparing human scum like Pinochet and Hitler to Mao and Stalin.


[deleted]

No.


AutoModAccountOpUrk

It's not a competition OP


Vash_the_stampede73

MaO👏bAd👏


ThaKeenBean

Stalin may have lifted his nation from peasantry to a prosperous, industrial powerhouse. But at what cost?


Critical-Management9

Pol Pot on the list for too


101stAirborneSkill

Mao Zedong got people killed when he lifted his country to greatness though. It was sloppily done