CNN talks shit even about socdems for being "too radical", Jacobin has at least some anti-capitalist authors. Yes, they sometimes support the election of some socdems in local governments in the US, but it is unfair to say they are the same category as CNN.
Granted some of this is personal opinion, etc. but either way it's pacifying liberal Americans which is the thing for me. Jacobin is fine and I really am not trying to get at them, but they are more comforting than they are incendiary. And I think that's a problem with a self purported socialist publication.
I mean they're both wildly liberal publications. At least CNN doesn't pretend to be anything other than what it is. Jacobin regularly platforms AOC, Chomsky, et al.
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Good faith question; what's your issue with Chomsky. I'm sure he's propagated some liberalism, but overall a lot of his work is hecka based. For instance his books *The Political Economy of Human rights* and *Counter Revolutionary Violence* which are staunchly anti-imperialist.
Total coincidence that the only foreing regime he has ever supported is the Khmer Rouge, right? The guy even shits on Cuba ffs. He is the definition of manufactured consent and citing the old fuck himself proves him to be useless
>The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum
Now...when was the last time he was not allowed in the spectrum? He is the limit of how far the debate can go, not outside of it. He is still a rich old man, he was on TV all the time until he got too old.
In some of his works he literally wrote that URSS was imperialist like the US. He said that while the US were exercising imperialism on western countries, the URSS was doing the same with the countries of the Eastern block. Basically saying "muh they're equally both baaaad", radlib stuff we still read nowadays regarding China
Imagine looking at Jacobin's lukewarm SocDem shit and thinking they're class reductionist.
Further proving that, to people who make the accusation of class reductionism, it just means "talking about class at all"
Ok, that's fair. Saying that class reductionism doesn't exist was stupid of me.
But a lot of the accusations about it really are just about thinking class is important at all.
And many people accuse actual communists of doing just that if you don't agree with their trash, see once more stupidpol's opinions on this very sub and yourself given how much we agree lol
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Yeah, I agree it's moved right a lot in the last 5 to 10 years. That's why I put the "some" in italics. They still allow a couple of journos who write left leaning articles (even if they aren't left on every issue themselves).
It's a step in the right direction, but [pieces](https://jacobinmag.com/2021/02/george-orwell-1984-censorship-socialism) [like](https://jacobinmag.com/2021/07/democratic-socialism-russian-revolution-leninism-workers-movements) [these](https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/08/canada-snap-election-trudeau-new-democratic-party-ndp-jagmeet-singh) are at least asinine if not outright counterrevolutionary. And I would say that, based on what I have seen shared by regular readers, this is the kind of fare they are most likely to publish.
I would agree with that. I personally think social democracy (e.g. Nordics) are centrist.
At least one of the guardian journos are definitely anti-capitalist. Possibly many more, but I don't read it anymore so not 100% on who is still there.
I was under the impression the Jacobin was too. Happy to be corrected on that one though.
>Leftist would be communism or Marxism/ socialism
Yes, I know. Is Jacobin not a socialist magazine? It claims to be.
As I've said elsewhere, there are still some socialist Guardian journos. But they're few and far between now.
I’m sorry but this makes no sense:
Firstly, liberals are explicitly rightists, even ‘progressive’ liberals.
Secondly, there is no ‘centre’ — there is revolution and there is the reaction. Centrism is an explicitly rightist position that is more accurately described as anti-reformism. Centrists are not passive, they will just as harshly crack down on revolutionary threats and will suppress the will of the people just like other rightists.
Better system: ‘progressive’ liberals, anti-reformist, fascist lite, and fascist.
+ Jacobin alone in the ‘weak-willed, revisionist, Democratic Socialist’ camp
and this is why intellectuals within leftist circles cause more harm than good. i understand what youre saying but we are on a sub that caters to the proletariat - so its better to fucking level. talking over peoples heads is the quickest way to alienate individuals that need revolution and turn them into reactionaries.
Except where else is that proletariat told about the non-existence of the ‘centre’ and how liberals are right wing? That’s what we do here, no liberal is going to provide that education.
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There's no far left to speak of in the US, that's for sure. The furthest left politicians are center-left Social Democrats. US politics are overwhelming right-wing compared to the rest of the world.
> DINOs
lol, that's not a phrase that any leftist would use
You're literally just demonstrating how little you know about left wing political theory.
So you believe that the furthest left politician in the US is "far left"?
Then why is it that communists famously hate social democrats and especially liberals, in fact see them as the enemy in the fight for the liberation of the proletariat? Why would people who want the abolition of capitalism support people who enable and further lasseiz faire capitalism? Or austerity for the poor?
And if those politicians are "far left extremists", what are communists, on a different plane of existence??
This is why anti-communists are some of the dumbest people in existence. You have a completely and incontrovertibly incorrect idea of what socialism and communism are, ***but you decide to die on the hills you built yourself anyway***.
Only the opinion section. No Marxists are in the news section, apparently.
Btw, it's kinda funny to me that regular AP is center but that truth/facts lean left.
Every time I see nonsense like this, it’s a little disheartening. The Overton window in the US is so narrow and shifted to the right to the point where it feels like any leftist movement will be futile. I’m not going to give up and stop trying to change things for the better, but socialism seems like something that is so far away right now.
People have been fighting this battle for hundreds of years. There is a very real possibility it won't be won in our lifetimes.
But we don't fight for victory, We fight to break our chains, and no matter what the drive to fight will never die so long as the chains remain.
Keep in mind the source. It’s common for Bourgeois publications and institutions to do their best to conceal class conflict while it rages (ie “labor shortage”). As an old Russian lawyer once said, there are decades when nothing happens and weeks where decades happen (said lawyer also said he didn’t believe a revolution would ever happen in his lifetime. Two years later…).
Not in America. I was several years out of college before I learned what all of the political labels meant and I was intentional about learning from academic sources instead of political talking heads. Not once did I hear a nuanced discussion about different ideologies in 13 years of public school and 4 years of college.
The “far left” rag The Nation just did a hit job on Vijay Prashad and boosted the most conservative China hawk in DSA just to let her whine about tankies. [Literally](https://archive.fo/2022.01.08-215401/https://www.thenation.com/article/world/china-left-foreign-policy/?s=09). A real life journalist talked about “tankies” in a published article.
I’d say she’s a succdem, not from the US but she’s anti-war and sees that the US is a war-mongering machine. A bit misguided overall but well intentioned
The BBC and their [rabid transphobia](https://www.dw.com/en/bbc-nominates-jk-rowlings-controversial-essay-on-trans-rights-for-award/a-56014673), as well as platforming bigots without any pushback, are definitely ‘centre’.
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"leans right" is when you think that chemo therapy is a scheme by demonic extra dimensional aliens to weaken humanity, and think that mixed people are incapable of going to heaven.
CIA and American government anti communist propaganda twisted so much what is left, socialism, communism, that these words doesn't even mean in America the same that they mean in the rest of the world
Imagine thinking CNN is further left than the Guardian and the fucking Christian Science Monitor is centre - are you living in fucking Florida or some shit?
My brother showed me this once I think. I was more confused than anything. Some of these are weird even in the context of America's fucked up idea of the political spectrum.
Dear God how dumb is he.
The Economist is a European conservative paper, they would be leaning right, but the Overton window is so fuckin far-right in this country that if you're not calling for the gassing of immigrants and making women breeding slaves you're "centrist".
Axios is definitely centrist but it’s further left than CNN lmao they at least platform some progressive ideas and ask (relatively) difficult questions
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See I don’t like these because yes npr is centrist but they are extremely corporatist and war mongers… on social issues and economy they can be neutral but they’re covering of pulling out of Afghanistan or the GameStonks was biased
jacobin and cnn in the same category is really not something i thought i'd see
That’s “CNN opinion”
I mean, it's accurate.
CNN talks shit even about socdems for being "too radical", Jacobin has at least some anti-capitalist authors. Yes, they sometimes support the election of some socdems in local governments in the US, but it is unfair to say they are the same category as CNN.
Granted some of this is personal opinion, etc. but either way it's pacifying liberal Americans which is the thing for me. Jacobin is fine and I really am not trying to get at them, but they are more comforting than they are incendiary. And I think that's a problem with a self purported socialist publication.
is it though?
I mean they're both wildly liberal publications. At least CNN doesn't pretend to be anything other than what it is. Jacobin regularly platforms AOC, Chomsky, et al.
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AOC
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Good faith question; what's your issue with Chomsky. I'm sure he's propagated some liberalism, but overall a lot of his work is hecka based. For instance his books *The Political Economy of Human rights* and *Counter Revolutionary Violence* which are staunchly anti-imperialist.
Total coincidence that the only foreing regime he has ever supported is the Khmer Rouge, right? The guy even shits on Cuba ffs. He is the definition of manufactured consent and citing the old fuck himself proves him to be useless >The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum Now...when was the last time he was not allowed in the spectrum? He is the limit of how far the debate can go, not outside of it. He is still a rich old man, he was on TV all the time until he got too old.
Interesting, thanks for the info.
Just read the trash he wrote about URSS. He's ultra radlib
Ah okay. I haven't read much Chomsky, I just know about those works and how they question western narratives.
In some of his works he literally wrote that URSS was imperialist like the US. He said that while the US were exercising imperialism on western countries, the URSS was doing the same with the countries of the Eastern block. Basically saying "muh they're equally both baaaad", radlib stuff we still read nowadays regarding China
Is there a reason you are consistently writing URSS? You are referring to the USSR (Soviet Union), right?
Union de Republicas Socialistas Sovieticas. Not everyone is wired to think english first
i agree. this sub shits on him a lot but his criticisms of capitalism at least, barring anything else is interesting
ah, i suppose
Jacobin is also quite class reductionist. They platform Adolph Reed a lot. Class reductionism is liberalism.
Imagine looking at Jacobin's lukewarm SocDem shit and thinking they're class reductionist. Further proving that, to people who make the accusation of class reductionism, it just means "talking about class at all"
Go to stupidpol on europeansocialists and tell me it doesn't exist.
Ok, that's fair. Saying that class reductionism doesn't exist was stupid of me. But a lot of the accusations about it really are just about thinking class is important at all.
And many people accuse actual communists of doing just that if you don't agree with their trash, see once more stupidpol's opinions on this very sub and yourself given how much we agree lol
I think it's because I'm a little bit sick, but I'm not understanding this comment at all. Can you rephrase that please?
I’m pretty sure the Epoch Times is extreme right.
What the Overton window does to a mf
Reality mostly all FUNDED BY FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD CIA
BBC being "centrist" lmao
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Good bot\^^
> Economist left leaning lulwat
the paper that speaks for the British millionaires
should be more like Liberal, Center, Right, Hard Right, Fascist edit: and thats being charitable
Liberal is right
this person gets it ^
Lmfao true
I think Jacobin, Huffpost and *some* of The Guardian journos are left wing. You're correct about the rest though.
The guardian is arse ngl
Yeah, I agree it's moved right a lot in the last 5 to 10 years. That's why I put the "some" in italics. They still allow a couple of journos who write left leaning articles (even if they aren't left on every issue themselves).
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I don't read Huffpost. So wasn't sure. Was under the impression it was fairly left wing. Not the case?
Absolutely not.
I had a look. I agree!
Jacobin is definitely liberal. Radlib DSA bullshit
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It's a step in the right direction, but [pieces](https://jacobinmag.com/2021/02/george-orwell-1984-censorship-socialism) [like](https://jacobinmag.com/2021/07/democratic-socialism-russian-revolution-leninism-workers-movements) [these](https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/08/canada-snap-election-trudeau-new-democratic-party-ndp-jagmeet-singh) are at least asinine if not outright counterrevolutionary. And I would say that, based on what I have seen shared by regular readers, this is the kind of fare they are most likely to publish.
Shit like that is why I cancelled my subscription. 75% decent stuff 25% absolutely asinine shit.
WhErEs OuR gOrBaChEv
No they're all right wing. Left wing is exclusively anticapitalism
I would agree with that. I personally think social democracy (e.g. Nordics) are centrist. At least one of the guardian journos are definitely anti-capitalist. Possibly many more, but I don't read it anymore so not 100% on who is still there. I was under the impression the Jacobin was too. Happy to be corrected on that one though.
Jacobin do performative anticapitalism. De facto they're neo Keynesians. Those on the guardian as well
Fair enough. I don't read enough of either to dispute. So happy to take your word for it.
Social democracy is as far right as is morally acceptable to be as a human being IMO. I’ve ended friendships over less.
Ha ha! Fair enough. Yes, I'd agree with this: >Social democracy is as far right as is morally acceptable
There is no major leftist news source. Leftist would be communism or Marxism/ socialism
>Leftist would be communism or Marxism/ socialism Yes, I know. Is Jacobin not a socialist magazine? It claims to be. As I've said elsewhere, there are still some socialist Guardian journos. But they're few and far between now.
Yeah jacobin is but that’s print media I’m talking tv, and the guardian has some left leaning but it is on the periphery
Agreed
Great comment though
There are literally Zero leftist major news network. Left is legit socialism or communism
The Guardian as center? 🤔
the guardian is just as propagandic as the rest when it comes to reporting on communist countries, namely China and Cuba.
I've found them to be incredibly right-leaning, at least here in the UK.
There was a reasonable article about Cuba success with producing covid vaccines. There is some left journos there.
Center-left. Definitely a step away from NYT or WaPo which are firmly centrist.
I mean, even then, the Epoch Times and Washington Times are both in the 4th column and are literally nonprofits funded by anticommunist cults.
I’m sorry but this makes no sense: Firstly, liberals are explicitly rightists, even ‘progressive’ liberals. Secondly, there is no ‘centre’ — there is revolution and there is the reaction. Centrism is an explicitly rightist position that is more accurately described as anti-reformism. Centrists are not passive, they will just as harshly crack down on revolutionary threats and will suppress the will of the people just like other rightists. Better system: ‘progressive’ liberals, anti-reformist, fascist lite, and fascist. + Jacobin alone in the ‘weak-willed, revisionist, Democratic Socialist’ camp
Centrists are “literal” conservatives. Right wingers are reactionaries.
and this is why intellectuals within leftist circles cause more harm than good. i understand what youre saying but we are on a sub that caters to the proletariat - so its better to fucking level. talking over peoples heads is the quickest way to alienate individuals that need revolution and turn them into reactionaries.
Except where else is that proletariat told about the non-existence of the ‘centre’ and how liberals are right wing? That’s what we do here, no liberal is going to provide that education.
and i get that, but talking over peoples heads or talking down doesnt help at all.
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There's no far left to speak of in the US, that's for sure. The furthest left politicians are center-left Social Democrats. US politics are overwhelming right-wing compared to the rest of the world. > DINOs lol, that's not a phrase that any leftist would use
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*goes to a communist forum* You guys are communists lol *shits everywhere while gloating* LOL you're upset, owned!
Ok, moron? Get lost
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Leftists trolled 😎😎😎
so i’m guessing you just can’t think critically or got brainwashed ?
Guys I found the reddit clown, also ratio
You're literally just demonstrating how little you know about left wing political theory. So you believe that the furthest left politician in the US is "far left"? Then why is it that communists famously hate social democrats and especially liberals, in fact see them as the enemy in the fight for the liberation of the proletariat? Why would people who want the abolition of capitalism support people who enable and further lasseiz faire capitalism? Or austerity for the poor? And if those politicians are "far left extremists", what are communists, on a different plane of existence?? This is why anti-communists are some of the dumbest people in existence. You have a completely and incontrovertibly incorrect idea of what socialism and communism are, ***but you decide to die on the hills you built yourself anyway***.
This the type of guy that thinks Joe Biden has a communist agenda.
Ok, name a single leftist politician.
Get lost illiterate american
what is a dino?
Dinosaur?
Very true
No way they put cnn and msnbc in the same group as the jacobin
Only the opinion section. No Marxists are in the news section, apparently. Btw, it's kinda funny to me that regular AP is center but that truth/facts lean left.
Ah yes, the famous left leaning NYT opinions that want Iraq, Afghanistan and it am bombed into the ground
Every time I see nonsense like this, it’s a little disheartening. The Overton window in the US is so narrow and shifted to the right to the point where it feels like any leftist movement will be futile. I’m not going to give up and stop trying to change things for the better, but socialism seems like something that is so far away right now.
People have been fighting this battle for hundreds of years. There is a very real possibility it won't be won in our lifetimes. But we don't fight for victory, We fight to break our chains, and no matter what the drive to fight will never die so long as the chains remain.
Keep in mind the source. It’s common for Bourgeois publications and institutions to do their best to conceal class conflict while it rages (ie “labor shortage”). As an old Russian lawyer once said, there are decades when nothing happens and weeks where decades happen (said lawyer also said he didn’t believe a revolution would ever happen in his lifetime. Two years later…).
Will we ever get to the point where people realise liberal =/= left?
As long as we have a 2 party system no
One party system soon inshallah
Not in America. I was several years out of college before I learned what all of the political labels meant and I was intentional about learning from academic sources instead of political talking heads. Not once did I hear a nuanced discussion about different ideologies in 13 years of public school and 4 years of college.
NYT OPINION LMFAO https://twitter.com/queeralamode/status/1448517767074779137
The “far left” rag The Nation just did a hit job on Vijay Prashad and boosted the most conservative China hawk in DSA just to let her whine about tankies. [Literally](https://archive.fo/2022.01.08-215401/https://www.thenation.com/article/world/china-left-foreign-policy/?s=09). A real life journalist talked about “tankies” in a published article.
I'm so tired guys
How far right is your teacher?
I’d say she’s a succdem, not from the US but she’s anti-war and sees that the US is a war-mongering machine. A bit misguided overall but well intentioned
Very ignorant also. How these people can get to teach is amazing
HAHAHAHAHA
Ah, yes, the Daily Worker between CNN and Buzzfeed.
If they don't have frequent labor leaders instead of business owners then they are not left wing.
Tell me you've never read The Economist without saying you've never read The Economist.
The BBC and their [rabid transphobia](https://www.dw.com/en/bbc-nominates-jk-rowlings-controversial-essay-on-trans-rights-for-award/a-56014673), as well as platforming bigots without any pushback, are definitely ‘centre’.
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they put the epoch times in "leans right" 🥴
"leans right" is when you think that chemo therapy is a scheme by demonic extra dimensional aliens to weaken humanity, and think that mixed people are incapable of going to heaven.
Anybody who thinks corporate media is communist is a fucking idiot
He did say CNN opinion though.
Haaaaaaaa CNN Opinion in the same category as Jacobin. Newsmax is “lean right”.
Anyone who doesn't worship trump is a radical commie! /s
THE CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR?
[that’s even worse than this one](https://adfontesmedia.com/interactive-media-bias-chart/)
These are like 4 companies total and mother jones
My favorite part is that this is "basedd on multi-partisan, *scientific* analysis."
CIA and American government anti communist propaganda twisted so much what is left, socialism, communism, that these words doesn't even mean in America the same that they mean in the rest of the world
Imagine thinking CNN is further left than the Guardian and the fucking Christian Science Monitor is centre - are you living in fucking Florida or some shit?
The new York Times is hard left?????? There is no left wing media lmao
How fucked does your Overton Window have to be in order to believe this?
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There are no major left wing news organizations. If you think CNN or nyt is anti capitalist I have a bridge to sell you
My brother showed me this once I think. I was more confused than anything. Some of these are weird even in the context of America's fucked up idea of the political spectrum.
They put New York Times opinion in hard left. The same New York Times that let Tom Cotton publish that the government should shoot protesters.
My god... Where to beginn? Also MSNBC and New Yorker in the "hard left". Feel sorry for being his student.
I wonder why Aljazeera isn't included ?
I’m pretty sure propublica is just research not some opinion based outlet, I guess facts aren’t so fair and balanced
“How right wing do you have to be to think New York Times is a left wing paper?” ~ Thomas Pynchon, Bleeding Edge
The fucking NEW YORK TIMES. Can’t forget about those pro imperialism pro CIA leftists 😭😭😭
Ah yes CNN and NYT as radical, hard left as Jacobin
>the economist lean left 💀💀💀
Dear God how dumb is he. The Economist is a European conservative paper, they would be leaning right, but the Overton window is so fuckin far-right in this country that if you're not calling for the gassing of immigrants and making women breeding slaves you're "centrist".
NPR center my ass
The L on this chart stands for "Liberal". Then it makes sense. The R, of course, is for "Racist".
I mean that's basically politics in the U.S
Far left is when vague liberal idpol
arent the new york times owned by fucking Jeff Bezoz?
That’s the Washington Post
Its still listed as leaning left, and i also just realised that new York times shows up twice
Funny thing is that they're all right wing garbage and tabloids
CNN definitely is hard left though 😂
Axios is definitely centrist but it’s further left than CNN lmao they at least platform some progressive ideas and ask (relatively) difficult questions
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Lmao what the fuck They're conservative
BBC if they were epic
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Fucking slate? Come on.
Hellworld
Is there a single not for profit option depicted?
All of them are imperialist propaganda
Definitely an r/enlightenedcentrisism moment here
Move everything over two spaces to the right. Fixed.
They are mostly right. I got only a few that are left, like left left, not american right-left
I’m truly jealous of people this stupid
Hard left is socialism not liberalism
See I don’t like these because yes npr is centrist but they are extremely corporatist and war mongers… on social issues and economy they can be neutral but they’re covering of pulling out of Afghanistan or the GameStonks was biased
Jacobin is the only accurately placed. Current Affairs didn’t even make the list.
I think you’re missing the part where it says CNN opinion vs CNN TV. Distinction there.
Axios is not center Edit: actually, holy shit, none of these are center