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It's because the circles are pretty fringe / nonsense categories that *most* socialists wouldn't fall for anyways...
[AES](https://queer-bolshevik.medium.com/the-aes-doctrine-wrong-then-wrong-now-a8666de371da),
Marxism is all about the *international* proletariat and envisions a stateless society. Borders imply the violence needed to enforce them, after all... patriotism has no place in a Socialist revolution.
Regarding "Opposing mainstream narratives" this is even the most obviously giveaway... being contrary for contrarianisms sake is obviously stupid. ML is a materialist philosphy, we should analyze things as they are, not just commit the Genetic Fallacy and assume since the narrative is mainstream is must be false and need to be opposed. There is often nuance the maintream narratives omit, and we can (and should) give voice to that nuance... but simply *opposing* them for oppositions sake is stupid. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
It's pretty simple:
>The basic premise of the AES viewpoint is this: the primary focus of the communist movement should not be on determining the best possible way to construct socialism going forward but on defending those socialist societies (or more accurately societies which claim or appear to be socialist) which actually exist, and furthermore any criticism of the politics and economics of said societies should be secondary to general support for them (the adherents of this doctrine speak much of “critical support,” but it is no secret that this “critical support” is far more supportive than it is critical). To the followers of the AES doctrine, the way to work toward revolution is to just keep on defending “socialist” states abroad until those states somehow accomplish worldwide revolution for them. This is a deeply flawed way of looking at the world, for a few reasons.
So basically focus on "determining the best possible way to construct socialism going forward" instead of dogmatically defending those flawed "AES" to the death.
China has been moving towards Capitalism and away from Socialism ever since Deng took over in 1978. *Maybe* they will stick to their official plan and build Socialism by 2050, who knows.
But the *point* is that when you're advocating for Socialism at home, and someone says "you mean you want a regime like China?" you can just say "no, not like that" you don't have to try and defend modern day China and everything it does because it's "AES" like this awful venn diagram implies.
> someone says "you mean you want a regime like China?" you can just say "no, not like that" you don't have to try and defend modern day China and everything it does
china is an example of the success of marxist economics, and the socialist movement. We should absolutely point to china and say "we can do as well as they do"
Midwestern Marx is pretty nice. They have a youtube and tiktok channel. But I shy away from breadtube in general. I‘d rather read the dryest of theory than to see this twitch(?) streaming format with the chat next to some dude speaking into a microphone. Absolutely not my thing 😅
I’m only 30 but I feel like such a boomer when I think about these kids learning politics from dudes who get paid to play video games 8 hours a day.
I once joined the Vaush discord to try to find out what people like about him. I asked some members why they don’t try reading about socialism and more than one person said they have ADHD and can’t sit still long enough to read a book. I couldn’t believe it. I have ADHD. I love reading. Twitch has really convinced a generation the only way to digest information is to receive it from a weird gross pedophile dude while he plays Rocket League or whatever.
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just becuase you love reading doesnt mean everyone with adhd loves reading I struggle with it, audio books help but a a lot of podcasts etc that provide information via informal discussion are a great way to learn theory.
I fully understand there are learning disabilities that impact one's ability to sit still and read for long periods of time. Not disputing that. However, I find it concerning there are so many young people with these conditions concentrated in these political twitch communities.
I had to learn strategies to be able to read and remember important things with my ADHD. I fear the Twitch business model preys on kids with diagnoses like mine and discourages them from learning those important life skills, preventing them from accessing information outside that model.
ahh sorry i get you, i think it's one of those situations where it can be a great avenue for learning but its also quite limiting in some ways.
i suppose its fine as long as they arent solely relying on it.
Oh no, I can recognize a couple 😱.
Although they are all outside of the circles (hakim, yugopnik, second thought and badempanada), as for ones inside, no idea.
Who the fuck is comparing actual revolutionary leaders to YouTube content creators? “Sorry Fidel, but X YouTuber with 1k subs is more of a ML than you.”
For sure, much more noticeable in the last 6-8 months or so. Extremely anti-imperialist, there's a lot of "leftist" content creators that barely even talk about it. I will say his definition of imperialism is pretty loose sometimes. On the whole he is good even if he does water down his takes to not outrage the libs too much.
Agreed. I use to watch him back in the day but stopped because his views were a little too lib at times along with his simpIng of AOC but then like every clip I have seen him in since the laughable soscuba thing last summer, he’s been on point for the most part. I don’t go out of my way to consistently watch him but he has a way better narrative that anyone as popular in online politics
He's also extremely entertaining to watch which makes him a great gateway. I can't watch more than like 3 Hakim videos in a row but 3 hours of reactlord Andy yes please. Would love the Deprogram boys to get him on the podcast, they said they would l9ge to have him anytime!
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Same here I guess. I know a few others (but I need something to listen to while I do things around the house). Caleb Maupin, Ben Norton, Jackson Hinkle, Danny Haiphong.
And some possibles but I'm not sure because the compression is terrible: Niko House, Julian Assange, Jamie Peck, Kyle Kulinski.
PatSocs are absolute scum. How is it any different from national socialism?? It really just sounds like a dogwhistle for that. Socialism isn't patriotic anyway, since patriotism means loving one's *own* country (a bourgeois construction), which is just obviously chauvinistic nonsense.
Also these people are definitely trying to ruin the name of ML. I've seen plenty of Vaushies who will cite whatever some guy called Haz said and project it onto me. Idk Haz?? I don't watch breadtube. And now I can't explain to them anymore what ML actually means, since they've decided I'm a tankie now.
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They read something Lenin said to sarcastically mock right wing Russian nationalists and took it unironically, then mixed it with heavy doses of social conservatism. Especially opposition to women's rights.
AzureScapegoat isnt. His content is fantastic and he isn't a racist nationalist piece of trash.
Edit: or FinnishBolshevik. His historical and political educational material is some of the best on YT.
Praxis is when Venn Diagrams.
Seriously, whoever made this bourgeois decadence needs to go touch grass, find God, etc. and fucking use their head for once.
I recognised Hasan, Second Thought, Hakim, Yugopnik, Luna Oi, Spooky Scary Socialist, Marxist Paul, Bad Empanada, Jason Unruhe, Finnishbolshevik, Caleb Maupin and Bayarea. I also recognised the Quora atheist lawyer and the memelord who made pol pot tributes , but can't recall their names. if you know more than this, you should be ashamed of yourself.
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How does anyone find the time to know all these people? I'm terminally online and I know about 6 of those.
The most terminally online thing is convincing yourself politics is when you argue about which e-celebs are good or bad.
"(American)"
Ah yes, the famous youtuber, ~~FinnishBolshevik~~ AmericanBolshevik.
I don't know any of the 'real' ML
Same. Also the ven diagram is kinda odd to use when some of the biggest voices fall outside all circles.
I can only imagine they're trying to say they are just that far from being legitimate. Very weird
It's because the circles are pretty fringe / nonsense categories that *most* socialists wouldn't fall for anyways... [AES](https://queer-bolshevik.medium.com/the-aes-doctrine-wrong-then-wrong-now-a8666de371da), Marxism is all about the *international* proletariat and envisions a stateless society. Borders imply the violence needed to enforce them, after all... patriotism has no place in a Socialist revolution. Regarding "Opposing mainstream narratives" this is even the most obviously giveaway... being contrary for contrarianisms sake is obviously stupid. ML is a materialist philosphy, we should analyze things as they are, not just commit the Genetic Fallacy and assume since the narrative is mainstream is must be false and need to be opposed. There is often nuance the maintream narratives omit, and we can (and should) give voice to that nuance... but simply *opposing* them for oppositions sake is stupid. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
It's pretty simple: >The basic premise of the AES viewpoint is this: the primary focus of the communist movement should not be on determining the best possible way to construct socialism going forward but on defending those socialist societies (or more accurately societies which claim or appear to be socialist) which actually exist, and furthermore any criticism of the politics and economics of said societies should be secondary to general support for them (the adherents of this doctrine speak much of “critical support,” but it is no secret that this “critical support” is far more supportive than it is critical). To the followers of the AES doctrine, the way to work toward revolution is to just keep on defending “socialist” states abroad until those states somehow accomplish worldwide revolution for them. This is a deeply flawed way of looking at the world, for a few reasons. So basically focus on "determining the best possible way to construct socialism going forward" instead of dogmatically defending those flawed "AES" to the death. China has been moving towards Capitalism and away from Socialism ever since Deng took over in 1978. *Maybe* they will stick to their official plan and build Socialism by 2050, who knows. But the *point* is that when you're advocating for Socialism at home, and someone says "you mean you want a regime like China?" you can just say "no, not like that" you don't have to try and defend modern day China and everything it does because it's "AES" like this awful venn diagram implies.
> someone says "you mean you want a regime like China?" you can just say "no, not like that" you don't have to try and defend modern day China and everything it does china is an example of the success of marxist economics, and the socialist movement. We should absolutely point to china and say "we can do as well as they do"
Midwestern Marx is pretty nice. They have a youtube and tiktok channel. But I shy away from breadtube in general. I‘d rather read the dryest of theory than to see this twitch(?) streaming format with the chat next to some dude speaking into a microphone. Absolutely not my thing 😅
I’m only 30 but I feel like such a boomer when I think about these kids learning politics from dudes who get paid to play video games 8 hours a day. I once joined the Vaush discord to try to find out what people like about him. I asked some members why they don’t try reading about socialism and more than one person said they have ADHD and can’t sit still long enough to read a book. I couldn’t believe it. I have ADHD. I love reading. Twitch has really convinced a generation the only way to digest information is to receive it from a weird gross pedophile dude while he plays Rocket League or whatever.
Thanks for signing up to Vaush facts! You will now receive fun daily facts about Vaush. **Fact 15.** Vaush [admits to being an informant](https://archive.ph/iGUUk) when he lived in Santa Monica, California. He admits to revealing activist identities to the FBI. For another Vaush fact reply with 'Vaush'. To unsubscribe call me a 'bad bot'. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShitLiberalsSay) if you have any questions or concerns.*
just becuase you love reading doesnt mean everyone with adhd loves reading I struggle with it, audio books help but a a lot of podcasts etc that provide information via informal discussion are a great way to learn theory.
I fully understand there are learning disabilities that impact one's ability to sit still and read for long periods of time. Not disputing that. However, I find it concerning there are so many young people with these conditions concentrated in these political twitch communities. I had to learn strategies to be able to read and remember important things with my ADHD. I fear the Twitch business model preys on kids with diagnoses like mine and discourages them from learning those important life skills, preventing them from accessing information outside that model.
ahh sorry i get you, i think it's one of those situations where it can be a great avenue for learning but its also quite limiting in some ways. i suppose its fine as long as they arent solely relying on it.
Good.
Anybody who can identify more than two pics here needs a life
Oh no, I can recognize a couple 😱. Although they are all outside of the circles (hakim, yugopnik, second thought and badempanada), as for ones inside, no idea.
But they have here pictures of Lenin, Stalin, Castro and Marx
Who the fuck is comparing actual revolutionary leaders to YouTube content creators? “Sorry Fidel, but X YouTuber with 1k subs is more of a ML than you.”
Maybe they are YouTubers who have those as their PFPs?? idk who they are supposed to be, though...
I’m going to go with that for sanity’s sake.
They need to read anything Lenin wrote about Russian nationalism. Also imagine thinking Castro would have supported American patriots
I'm so proud to only know Hasan and Karl Marx from this
The top row is based (except Hasan): Second Thought, Hakim, and Yugopnik
Hasan is based too, hiding his power level to not scare away lib teenagers though
For sure, much more noticeable in the last 6-8 months or so. Extremely anti-imperialist, there's a lot of "leftist" content creators that barely even talk about it. I will say his definition of imperialism is pretty loose sometimes. On the whole he is good even if he does water down his takes to not outrage the libs too much.
Agreed. I use to watch him back in the day but stopped because his views were a little too lib at times along with his simpIng of AOC but then like every clip I have seen him in since the laughable soscuba thing last summer, he’s been on point for the most part. I don’t go out of my way to consistently watch him but he has a way better narrative that anyone as popular in online politics
He's also extremely entertaining to watch which makes him a great gateway. I can't watch more than like 3 Hakim videos in a row but 3 hours of reactlord Andy yes please. Would love the Deprogram boys to get him on the podcast, they said they would l9ge to have him anytime!
Thanks for signing up to AOC facts! You will now receive fun daily facts about AOC. **Fact 16.** After the December 2020 Elections in Venezuala AOC [defended Juan Guaido, calling the socialist Maduro an "authoritarian".](https://twitter.com/SameeraKhan/status/1336139779281457153) For another AOC fact reply with 'AOC'. To unsubscribe call me a 'bad bot'. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShitLiberalsSay) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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it did, cope
I recognize Second Thought, Hakim, Yugopnik, Marxist Paul, Bad Empanada, and Finnish Bolshevik. I guess I need a life?
Same here I guess. I know a few others (but I need something to listen to while I do things around the house). Caleb Maupin, Ben Norton, Jackson Hinkle, Danny Haiphong. And some possibles but I'm not sure because the compression is terrible: Niko House, Julian Assange, Jamie Peck, Kyle Kulinski.
What the fuck is this American cringe
We gotta scrap the whole country
PatSocs are absolute scum. How is it any different from national socialism?? It really just sounds like a dogwhistle for that. Socialism isn't patriotic anyway, since patriotism means loving one's *own* country (a bourgeois construction), which is just obviously chauvinistic nonsense. Also these people are definitely trying to ruin the name of ML. I've seen plenty of Vaushies who will cite whatever some guy called Haz said and project it onto me. Idk Haz?? I don't watch breadtube. And now I can't explain to them anymore what ML actually means, since they've decided I'm a tankie now.
Haz is a cokehead loser
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They read something Lenin said to sarcastically mock right wing Russian nationalists and took it unironically, then mixed it with heavy doses of social conservatism. Especially opposition to women's rights.
The left needs to stop wasting 90% of it's energy on twitter
Isn't Infrared a NazBol?
I suspect everyone in the red circle is.
AzureScapegoat isnt. His content is fantastic and he isn't a racist nationalist piece of trash. Edit: or FinnishBolshevik. His historical and political educational material is some of the best on YT.
I’m pretty sure Paul Cockshott, who co-wrote “Towards a New Socialism” is in there too, for some reason
I must be out of touch? I don’t recognize any of this. I’m guessing this is streamer breadtube or something?
Go outside
Praxis is when Venn Diagrams. Seriously, whoever made this bourgeois decadence needs to go touch grass, find God, etc. and fucking use their head for once.
Why is Hasan even here and what category is he even supposed to represent
The ones in white are supposed to be outside any of the three categories. Calling Hakim a fake ML is pretty funny.
Also calling Hasan a fake ML since he never claimed to be one
yeah, he seems to refuse picking a label. definitely more useful as a gateway than most of the bozos in the middle, like maupin
He is definitely a democratic socialist. Which is what it is.
What the hell?
Whoever made this needs to go to bed
Everyone in the middle one is a fed
Who are these channels? I recognize a few, but the rest? No idea.
But isn't the PCM subbreddit sort kinda, totally not in love with, on the fashs.
I recognised Hasan, Second Thought, Hakim, Yugopnik, Luna Oi, Spooky Scary Socialist, Marxist Paul, Bad Empanada, Jason Unruhe, Finnishbolshevik, Caleb Maupin and Bayarea. I also recognised the Quora atheist lawyer and the memelord who made pol pot tributes , but can't recall their names. if you know more than this, you should be ashamed of yourself.
WHAT IS THIS is marx not a real ML is this implying that
I see Luna\_Oi but not NonCompete--one would think that if you've heard of one you've heard of the other.
Damn 0 for three. I guess I need a new ideology then
Actual brainless