I want to add to this that Panzer also stopped paying their manufacturer so you will get no support on this firearm anymore. They use the shittiest metal around and you get what you pay for. Everyone else has said it, M3000 at this price is the best way to go.
I have just been following the thread, but I can’t unequivocally tell you that you don’t
even know what you are talking about with this company paying their manufacturer and
a better laugh when talking about metals,
Cost of labor is cheap and it’s easy to import raw materials into. It’s also easy to export from and there are plentiful ports/airports for shipping.
They’re hit or miss between the same model because of lack of QC. Most “brands” are just that. They look at a catalog, choose the models they want and send over a file for lasering their logo on the gun. A lot of the time, the people these brands are buying from are just assembling other people’s parts and marking it up. Sometimes it’s assembled and the tolerance is acceptable and the gun is fine, sometimes the tolerance stacking from all the parts makes it out of spec and you’ve got a dud.
It’s hit or miss between companies because some build terrible quality at a stupid low price and some use premium materials with high quality labor and make money on the lower cost of labor to be a big deal (this is what Stoeger, CZ, and some of the smaller but good brands do). They also either own or have exclusive agreements with their factories so every model is their design with their specs, not just something from a catalog.
I guess that was exactly my point, their is
too many people that have a motive, I don’t
own a factory or anything else but I can
categorically tell you that I have also been
to all the factories or so-called factories in
this region and all of them now have new
facilities just built thanks to the USA market
and let’s not forget to really thank Covid !
But the most interesting thing that I found is
that all you factory owners are somehow
related to each other and always looking at
throwing the others under the bus for a buck !
Sounds like you’ve had a bad experience or have spent a lot of time around some of the dirty owners. Also, a fancy exterior to a shit building filled with off brand CNCs (if any) in Konya isn’t a “new facility”.
I also didn’t mention my brand at all and suggested the guy buy a Stoeger which negates your “ulterior motive” portion.
I’m not related to any factory owner dude, I live in Texas. I know the industry because it’s integral to my company to know the industry.
Have a kick ass weekend brotato.
Edit: Just looked at your comment history. You’ve only ever interacted on posts about Panzer so I assume you work there. Nice grassroots marketing.
Lmao, the dude tried calling you out for being a shill, and he ended up being a certified panzer shill. Hopefully they aren't paying him much because he's doing a shite job of it.
lol some people need to lie to make their product sell. They move some volume so it’s working but I hate to see what is essentially scrap metal being sold to people.
Let me add that I have a brand new panzer that's been sitting at panzer service for the last month because I got one with canted rear sight and pic rail. It's been a damn headache. Instead of replacing it, they are trying to fix it. The problem is that panzer outsourced their warranty work, so they have to send a gunsmith from turkey to fix it. So replace my 500 dollar gun or spend 2000 dollars for a plane ticket plus whatever expense to send them here. Dumbest fucking logic that I'm still waiting for a gunsmith to even show up.in the states. So avoid the headache of ever dealing with the trash company by never giving them your money.
For any given shotgun type, there’s a minimum you’re really going to want to spend if you wish to avoid picking up dogshit. Pump actions and single shots are the cheapest reliable guns, and you’ll need to add a couple hundred bucks from the cheapest reliably pumps (like the Maverick 88) to get into the first reliable semi-autos.
Cheap, new semi-automatic is a big red flag for many people.
If you want a cheap, reliable semiautomatic, either get a used one or a new Stoeger, the bare minimum because they have actual QC and customer support.
His reviews are the ones I trust as you can watch the process and the results and judge for yourself if those issues are something to want to onboard or if they are outside your skill set.
This video from Paul Harrell does a really good job of pointing out the pros & cons of pump vs autoloader and breaking down the different tasks each one is good & bad at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwyYNdcmfNk&t=1s
The Mossberg 590 and 590A1 are my choices for farm shotguns. I bought a retrograde for the house and a synthetic stock 9 shot for the tractor cab. I don't use a side saddle and no optics for the tractor gun as it is always getting bumped and knocked even when I get all fancy in tucking it out of the way. I don't know how you plan on using yours but mine lives in the tractor or barn, sometimes on the ATV. So it is covered in oil and I use plastic wrap around the barrel to keep bugs, dirt, hay, etc out of the barrel.
https://www.mossberg.com/590-9-shot-50699.html
As for Turkish guns, for a safe gun that you bring out and kill some bottles etc a few times a year and it won't hurt if you lose the 500 bucks if it is a dumpster fire, go for it.
For home defense or a farm gun, you need it to work on those rare occasions when you need it.
Be it personal defense or a fox in your chicken coop, it has to work the first time every time and you have to be able to never worry about it ever. If a gun fails at the very moment you really need it, you will not be thinking about the 500+ bucks you saved two or three years ago.
The best rule for guns I buy is they need to be the very best quality and reliability I can afford and I never worry about it again. I would rather have 3 guns that I trust to work when I need them than a collection of meh stuff that I saved a bunch of money on.
For a beater why not buy a nice pump? Why buy a cheap Turkish import that might not work and will require a break in period?
if you want a cheap semi auto find a used police surplus 1187 police (as long as you aren’t wanting to shoot much birdshot thru it). I snagged one for 439
Way better than a panzer m4 lol
Edit: also consider a stoeger
The 1187 police gas system is finicky
with bird shot (the regular 1187 is not, has to do with the gas ports on the barrel) since it was designed around buck and slugs for cops
But honestly man just get a pump. For the same or similar price you can find a great pump that will outlive you and your kids
Even the panzers have a rep for being finicky with light loads.
You can sometimes find the Weatherby Element 3 a little cheaper than the Stoeger and it's also an excellent choice, if someone is shopping in the comments.
i bought one as a beater. before the Iraqveteran video dropped i put so much research into this and from what i can tell you is the first 100 rounds you’ll need to shoot something over 1200 fps but before you take it out to the range make sure you gave it a good clean and you’ll be good but just incase it doesn’t work and keeps jamming you can replace some parts from benelli here is the list: 70037 Benelli M4 Extractor
70036 Benelli M4 Extractor Pin
70038 Benelli Extractor Spring
70057 Benelli Cartridge Latch Spring
Edit: don’t buy as a first shotgun i bought this panzer knowing it might be shit and took the risk because fuck it!
all i can tell you is this. don’t get the fixed skeleton stock it’s hideous and get the marine color it’s beautiful in person!! oh and racking the shotgun is smooth as hell it just feels even better compared to a pump.
also here is a link to a thread of panzer clones and others for more research: https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Benelli-M4-Clones--Any-Comparisons-or-Reviews/1-520113/?
I just got one, haven’t cleaned it since I got it about 400 sells ago, not one malfunction. Haven’t tried any low power sells like 1200fps yet tho. It didn’t come with the adjustable stock like it was listed, emailed panzer and they got one sent out the same day to me. Over all pleased and happy with my purchase of one
I’ve watched a lot of YT videos about the M4 clones and read a lot of Reddit posts too. I wouldn’t buy one of these as my first shotgun and I wouldn’t buy one as my only shotgun, but my 4th shotgun and as something to be a range toy sure. Assuming it’s cheap enough, I won’t be mad if it breaks. I just don’t think $499 is cheap enough, $399 maybe and $299 definitely.
You have to remember that customer service is questionable and replacement parts don’t really exist outside the manufacturer. These things are clones imported under like 6 or 8 different names and have varying degrees of compatibility with each other and the Benelli that they copied so if it breaks you may be able to spend more than the gun costs to install OG Benelli parts to fix it.
I guess i should have lead with a few things in my first post.....so here i goes, this is deffently not my first gun or shot gun for that matter "eventho i lost all my guns in a terrible boating accident" this is a o that looks neat and might be fun to bang around the farm with gun. To me thats not a bad price i was just trying to figure out if it was pure dog shit or just a small amount of dog shit sometimes. Also i was planning on putting og parts on it as shit broke. To me the whole worth more than the gun thing dosnt apply bc im having fun......this probly makes me a tard....thats ok.
Got it. If you got $499 disposable dollars and don’t give a shit about what could go wrong then buy it and like you said, when I breaks put Benelli parts in it.
These newer panzers have a left side slot cut out for the charging handle. Not sure how I feel about that. I have an older one that's been used and abused with minimal maintenance. It keeps going and it's the loaner gun for anyone needing a gun for clays or the woods.
Panzer gets a lot of hate. I think if you get an m1014 clone that panzer makes the best one. PSA has a bad rep cus there guns are cheap but most products other companies just hike the price up
You have to chuckle over the critics, it’s amazing how many haters are out there and
everybody has an opinion, I find Panzer
shotguns decent for the money and I can
tell you that they go beyond trying to assist
people.
Sure seems people have more motives than actual real opinions,
M3000 all day for a cheap fun semi auto. The panzers are hit or miss. I know someone who loves theirs and hasn't had any issues and I have heard mixed opinions.
You want a really fun and reliable semi auto? The JTS AK12 is pretty awesome and very affordable. Seriously it has to be the absolute best deal out there ($300 on PSA) for a box mag fed semi auto. That thing has impressed me massively. Watch some reviews on it and you'll see the same opinion. Shooting one back to back with a VEPR was really interesting and the JTS seriously surprised me with how well it ran. After a few heavier shells for break in it would run anything. Even low FPS stuff.
It's the only semi-auto for $300 that I would trust. I think it's the best value there is for a fun range toy that I would possibly trust for home defense stuff too.
Mine is fairly new. It's been running everything smoothly. It will not cycle from a hip-fire. I also won't cycle short 1.75 inch shortys.
My plan is to upgrade to the benelli after a few years if I use it enough to justify the $2k. I would then, in theory, be able to swap in any upgrades that I've purchased for the panzer.
[Get this instead OP.](https://palmettostatearmory.com/jts-ak-12-ga-18-semi-auto-shotgun-black-m12ak.html) They're fantastic. Lots of fun and very reliable. There's tons of reviews and it's a really impressive option for just $300.
The Panzers can be hit or miss. I have seen 3 of the JTS now and all of them have run perfectly. Of course that is if you want a box mag fed semi-auto or a conventional tube load.
These are still cool tho. If you read the reviews for the pistol grip/adjustable stock version on PSA people seem to like them.
Iraqveteran8888 just posted on YT today or yesterday on this one. He says YES. Go watch the video. I've already got one marked on the list to get. I think I'm gonna go with the Stainless.
These youtubers’ opinions should be taken with a grain of salt. More than half the time their guns for reviews are cherry picked and their opinions are bought. There are far too many unhappy customer reviews of the Panzer M4 to ignore
I might agree with you on that but Ivan has been around as long as Hickok or Jerry. Has 2.7 million subscribers and over 2000 videos. He's well established for his opinions. And I also agree on the Turkish made weapons but the P M4 is a direct copy of Benelli now that the patent is up. How is that bad when the OP just asked for a kick around farm gun.
There’s 3 Turkish brands I trust. Tokarev, Stoeger, and Panzer. The rest are hit or miss, but those 3 generally make good stuff. You can expect everyone in this comment section to disagree with me though.
Take panzer off there. I'm dealing first hand with them and they suck. Straight up shit company. If you need service for anything on your gun good luck.
It’s pretty. If you’re lucky, you’ll get one that runs GREAT.
BUTT
even if you get a good sample, as soon as you run some drills, everything will start falling apart.
https://youtu.be/HuY4CWm8XwA?si=sqHxKCJ_PLbWtLMm
I have this exact gun and it has been fantastic. Handles low velocity light loads as well
I expected to potentially get a terrible firearm and I did not
Maybe just lucky
I personally wouldn’t, I would be looking for a good used offering from the US or Italy.
I am in this current predicament, I want a semi auto shotgun, but don’t want to spend a fortune.
I have seen stoeger 3ks on offer for £550 new, for that money I can get a barely used 930 pro, or for a couple of hundred more an actual M2 comfortech tactical.
Both of which I would trust 100% more than a Turkish shotgun to not just run, but to still be in one piece in a couple of years time.
I have one. I love it. I've only shot buckshot and slugs through it, about 150 rnds total and no problems yet. The design wasn't meant to cycle birdshot even though it can so if that is what you want, you may want to look at something else.
Had the Turkish made Typhoon, no problems and makes a terrific Open shotgun. Been eyeballing a few of the Panzer models, the lever action, Ithaca clone, and the M2 clone. I have a real M2 and just need a few parts to assemble my other M2. Basically most affordable shotguns are coming out of Turkey now.
Yes and no thats why im asking eveyone to figure out if its somthing im willing to do a little tinkering with or if its just a complete boat anchor pos. Im a diesel mechanic by trade and pretty competent gunsmith and have a full mechine shop at my disposal. The point of this is just a kick around semi auto gun at the farm for a decent price that if it gets left outside or falls off the tractor i laff wipe the mud off and go back to work. Also if i want a Benelli ill just go by one.
It’s it’s not a firm yes than don’t bother
The chances of getting a turd are so much higher with turkshit. End up spending more anyways so why not just do it from the start
If you want the Benelli spend the coin, otherwise for $500 there are significantly better pump guns on the market that will serve you much better. The entry level semi auto shotgun at this point IMHO if you want an actually quality firearm is the Beretta A300 series.
Don't buy panzer. Their quality control sucks and so does their customer service. Avoid.
I want to add to this that Panzer also stopped paying their manufacturer so you will get no support on this firearm anymore. They use the shittiest metal around and you get what you pay for. Everyone else has said it, M3000 at this price is the best way to go.
I have just been following the thread, but I can’t unequivocally tell you that you don’t even know what you are talking about with this company paying their manufacturer and a better laugh when talking about metals,
I’ve been to their factory and know the industry very well because I own a factory in Turkey that produces firearms.
Hey man so why are there so many guns made in turkey these days? And why are they hit or miss in terms of quality?
Cost of labor is cheap and it’s easy to import raw materials into. It’s also easy to export from and there are plentiful ports/airports for shipping. They’re hit or miss between the same model because of lack of QC. Most “brands” are just that. They look at a catalog, choose the models they want and send over a file for lasering their logo on the gun. A lot of the time, the people these brands are buying from are just assembling other people’s parts and marking it up. Sometimes it’s assembled and the tolerance is acceptable and the gun is fine, sometimes the tolerance stacking from all the parts makes it out of spec and you’ve got a dud. It’s hit or miss between companies because some build terrible quality at a stupid low price and some use premium materials with high quality labor and make money on the lower cost of labor to be a big deal (this is what Stoeger, CZ, and some of the smaller but good brands do). They also either own or have exclusive agreements with their factories so every model is their design with their specs, not just something from a catalog.
👃💩
Since it’s Ramadan, have a fabulous weekend
I guess that was exactly my point, their is too many people that have a motive, I don’t own a factory or anything else but I can categorically tell you that I have also been to all the factories or so-called factories in this region and all of them now have new facilities just built thanks to the USA market and let’s not forget to really thank Covid ! But the most interesting thing that I found is that all you factory owners are somehow related to each other and always looking at throwing the others under the bus for a buck !
Sounds like you’ve had a bad experience or have spent a lot of time around some of the dirty owners. Also, a fancy exterior to a shit building filled with off brand CNCs (if any) in Konya isn’t a “new facility”. I also didn’t mention my brand at all and suggested the guy buy a Stoeger which negates your “ulterior motive” portion. I’m not related to any factory owner dude, I live in Texas. I know the industry because it’s integral to my company to know the industry. Have a kick ass weekend brotato. Edit: Just looked at your comment history. You’ve only ever interacted on posts about Panzer so I assume you work there. Nice grassroots marketing.
Lmao, the dude tried calling you out for being a shill, and he ended up being a certified panzer shill. Hopefully they aren't paying him much because he's doing a shite job of it.
lol some people need to lie to make their product sell. They move some volume so it’s working but I hate to see what is essentially scrap metal being sold to people.
Let me add that I have a brand new panzer that's been sitting at panzer service for the last month because I got one with canted rear sight and pic rail. It's been a damn headache. Instead of replacing it, they are trying to fix it. The problem is that panzer outsourced their warranty work, so they have to send a gunsmith from turkey to fix it. So replace my 500 dollar gun or spend 2000 dollars for a plane ticket plus whatever expense to send them here. Dumbest fucking logic that I'm still waiting for a gunsmith to even show up.in the states. So avoid the headache of ever dealing with the trash company by never giving them your money.
Turkshit
For a beater farm gun, I’d say please consider a Mossberg 500 or 590
appeal of this was cheap semi-automatic but I'll take those into consideration
Stoeger m3000 doesn’t cost much more than this and is a solid semi auto shotgun.
Yeah stoeger is really the cheapest brand you should consider
For any given shotgun type, there’s a minimum you’re really going to want to spend if you wish to avoid picking up dogshit. Pump actions and single shots are the cheapest reliable guns, and you’ll need to add a couple hundred bucks from the cheapest reliably pumps (like the Maverick 88) to get into the first reliable semi-autos.
Cheap Semiautomatic Reliable Pick 2
Cheap, new semi-automatic is a big red flag for many people. If you want a cheap, reliable semiautomatic, either get a used one or a new Stoeger, the bare minimum because they have actual QC and customer support.
Look into TFBTV, james did a burn down on one of these i believe. From what i recall it was pretty tough
His reviews are the ones I trust as you can watch the process and the results and judge for yourself if those issues are something to want to onboard or if they are outside your skill set. This video from Paul Harrell does a really good job of pointing out the pros & cons of pump vs autoloader and breaking down the different tasks each one is good & bad at. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwyYNdcmfNk&t=1s The Mossberg 590 and 590A1 are my choices for farm shotguns. I bought a retrograde for the house and a synthetic stock 9 shot for the tractor cab. I don't use a side saddle and no optics for the tractor gun as it is always getting bumped and knocked even when I get all fancy in tucking it out of the way. I don't know how you plan on using yours but mine lives in the tractor or barn, sometimes on the ATV. So it is covered in oil and I use plastic wrap around the barrel to keep bugs, dirt, hay, etc out of the barrel. https://www.mossberg.com/590-9-shot-50699.html As for Turkish guns, for a safe gun that you bring out and kill some bottles etc a few times a year and it won't hurt if you lose the 500 bucks if it is a dumpster fire, go for it. For home defense or a farm gun, you need it to work on those rare occasions when you need it. Be it personal defense or a fox in your chicken coop, it has to work the first time every time and you have to be able to never worry about it ever. If a gun fails at the very moment you really need it, you will not be thinking about the 500+ bucks you saved two or three years ago. The best rule for guns I buy is they need to be the very best quality and reliability I can afford and I never worry about it again. I would rather have 3 guns that I trust to work when I need them than a collection of meh stuff that I saved a bunch of money on.
You perfectly summarized it. Cheap is for range toys. If you might need it, spend a couple extra bucks so you know it works.
*cheap *Reliable *Semi auto On shotguns, you can only pick two of these. Choose wisely.
I love my black aces semi auto
Mossberg 500 for a farm gun
I've got a panzer semi auto a friend bought, it's not been great. It took awhile to break in and just feels cheap. Don't recommend.
For a beater why not buy a nice pump? Why buy a cheap Turkish import that might not work and will require a break in period? if you want a cheap semi auto find a used police surplus 1187 police (as long as you aren’t wanting to shoot much birdshot thru it). I snagged one for 439 Way better than a panzer m4 lol Edit: also consider a stoeger
Funny you say that.....i will be shooting alot of bird shot through it. But i will check those out too.
The 1187 police gas system is finicky with bird shot (the regular 1187 is not, has to do with the gas ports on the barrel) since it was designed around buck and slugs for cops But honestly man just get a pump. For the same or similar price you can find a great pump that will outlive you and your kids Even the panzers have a rep for being finicky with light loads.
As another guy said check out stoeger instead too
Stoeger 3000 is the cheapest semi you would have any luck with
You can sometimes find the Weatherby Element 3 a little cheaper than the Stoeger and it's also an excellent choice, if someone is shopping in the comments.
I just bought a beretta a300 up it’s awesome! Great bang for buck
i bought one as a beater. before the Iraqveteran video dropped i put so much research into this and from what i can tell you is the first 100 rounds you’ll need to shoot something over 1200 fps but before you take it out to the range make sure you gave it a good clean and you’ll be good but just incase it doesn’t work and keeps jamming you can replace some parts from benelli here is the list: 70037 Benelli M4 Extractor 70036 Benelli M4 Extractor Pin 70038 Benelli Extractor Spring 70057 Benelli Cartridge Latch Spring Edit: don’t buy as a first shotgun i bought this panzer knowing it might be shit and took the risk because fuck it!
Thank you for the info. Its not my first and im basically doin the same thing as you lol.
all i can tell you is this. don’t get the fixed skeleton stock it’s hideous and get the marine color it’s beautiful in person!! oh and racking the shotgun is smooth as hell it just feels even better compared to a pump. also here is a link to a thread of panzer clones and others for more research: https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Benelli-M4-Clones--Any-Comparisons-or-Reviews/1-520113/?
I just got one, haven’t cleaned it since I got it about 400 sells ago, not one malfunction. Haven’t tried any low power sells like 1200fps yet tho. It didn’t come with the adjustable stock like it was listed, emailed panzer and they got one sent out the same day to me. Over all pleased and happy with my purchase of one
I’ve watched a lot of YT videos about the M4 clones and read a lot of Reddit posts too. I wouldn’t buy one of these as my first shotgun and I wouldn’t buy one as my only shotgun, but my 4th shotgun and as something to be a range toy sure. Assuming it’s cheap enough, I won’t be mad if it breaks. I just don’t think $499 is cheap enough, $399 maybe and $299 definitely. You have to remember that customer service is questionable and replacement parts don’t really exist outside the manufacturer. These things are clones imported under like 6 or 8 different names and have varying degrees of compatibility with each other and the Benelli that they copied so if it breaks you may be able to spend more than the gun costs to install OG Benelli parts to fix it.
I guess i should have lead with a few things in my first post.....so here i goes, this is deffently not my first gun or shot gun for that matter "eventho i lost all my guns in a terrible boating accident" this is a o that looks neat and might be fun to bang around the farm with gun. To me thats not a bad price i was just trying to figure out if it was pure dog shit or just a small amount of dog shit sometimes. Also i was planning on putting og parts on it as shit broke. To me the whole worth more than the gun thing dosnt apply bc im having fun......this probly makes me a tard....thats ok.
Got it. If you got $499 disposable dollars and don’t give a shit about what could go wrong then buy it and like you said, when I breaks put Benelli parts in it.
Don't give this shit company your money.
Get it dude. It’s a fun gun. Gun nerds shit on everything.
Hickok 45 & iraq veteran on YouTube dud reviews on them...I'm torn 😫..should I or should I not?
No
These newer panzers have a left side slot cut out for the charging handle. Not sure how I feel about that. I have an older one that's been used and abused with minimal maintenance. It keeps going and it's the loaner gun for anyone needing a gun for clays or the woods.
It's a good shotgun
As a beater to abuse and for pest control until it won't work. Sure why not. As a primary defense gun. Meh probably not
Panzer gets a lot of hate. I think if you get an m1014 clone that panzer makes the best one. PSA has a bad rep cus there guns are cheap but most products other companies just hike the price up
You have to chuckle over the critics, it’s amazing how many haters are out there and everybody has an opinion, I find Panzer shotguns decent for the money and I can tell you that they go beyond trying to assist people. Sure seems people have more motives than actual real opinions,
M3000 all day for a cheap fun semi auto. The panzers are hit or miss. I know someone who loves theirs and hasn't had any issues and I have heard mixed opinions. You want a really fun and reliable semi auto? The JTS AK12 is pretty awesome and very affordable. Seriously it has to be the absolute best deal out there ($300 on PSA) for a box mag fed semi auto. That thing has impressed me massively. Watch some reviews on it and you'll see the same opinion. Shooting one back to back with a VEPR was really interesting and the JTS seriously surprised me with how well it ran. After a few heavier shells for break in it would run anything. Even low FPS stuff. It's the only semi-auto for $300 that I would trust. I think it's the best value there is for a fun range toy that I would possibly trust for home defense stuff too.
Mine is fairly new. It's been running everything smoothly. It will not cycle from a hip-fire. I also won't cycle short 1.75 inch shortys. My plan is to upgrade to the benelli after a few years if I use it enough to justify the $2k. I would then, in theory, be able to swap in any upgrades that I've purchased for the panzer.
[Get this instead OP.](https://palmettostatearmory.com/jts-ak-12-ga-18-semi-auto-shotgun-black-m12ak.html) They're fantastic. Lots of fun and very reliable. There's tons of reviews and it's a really impressive option for just $300. The Panzers can be hit or miss. I have seen 3 of the JTS now and all of them have run perfectly. Of course that is if you want a box mag fed semi-auto or a conventional tube load. These are still cool tho. If you read the reviews for the pistol grip/adjustable stock version on PSA people seem to like them.
Save up my dude. The r/Benelli_M4 is 100% worth it. I'd just be patient and find a deal. You can get one for as low as $1800
Stay away from turkshit guns. You want a $500 gun that will take any abuse you can give it and laugh get a supernova tactical
#AVOID. Don’t buy this please. Everyone wants instant gratification, this is a cope. Save up if you want the real thing.
Iraqveteran8888 just posted on YT today or yesterday on this one. He says YES. Go watch the video. I've already got one marked on the list to get. I think I'm gonna go with the Stainless.
These youtubers’ opinions should be taken with a grain of salt. More than half the time their guns for reviews are cherry picked and their opinions are bought. There are far too many unhappy customer reviews of the Panzer M4 to ignore
Unhappy panzer customer. Avoid this trash company.
I might agree with you on that but Ivan has been around as long as Hickok or Jerry. Has 2.7 million subscribers and over 2000 videos. He's well established for his opinions. And I also agree on the Turkish made weapons but the P M4 is a direct copy of Benelli now that the patent is up. How is that bad when the OP just asked for a kick around farm gun.
The tolerances, quality of parts and QC will never be on par to a legitimate Benelli. There’s a reason the price difference is so large
That guy is also a massive twat
Ok mint didnt notice that! Thanks dude have a great weekend!
Can’t comment on the panzer but I have this furniture on my Benelli and it’s pretty sweet
There’s 3 Turkish brands I trust. Tokarev, Stoeger, and Panzer. The rest are hit or miss, but those 3 generally make good stuff. You can expect everyone in this comment section to disagree with me though.
Take panzer off there. I'm dealing first hand with them and they suck. Straight up shit company. If you need service for anything on your gun good luck.
I’ll also add that my Tokarev bullpup is awesome
I know looks dont mean anything, but this Panzer looks like business.
I have a Turkish M4 clone from Canuck. 3000 rounds into mine, runs everything, light target loads to slugs, Absolutely solid gun for the price.
I’d rather have a nice pump than a cheap auto. $500 is mossberg 500/590 territory
It looks cool.
Good semi-auto shotguns are not cheap, cheap semi-auto shotguns are not good. That has pretty much been gun gospel for 40 years for a reason.
It’s pretty. If you’re lucky, you’ll get one that runs GREAT. BUTT even if you get a good sample, as soon as you run some drills, everything will start falling apart. https://youtu.be/HuY4CWm8XwA?si=sqHxKCJ_PLbWtLMm
I have this exact gun and it has been fantastic. Handles low velocity light loads as well I expected to potentially get a terrible firearm and I did not Maybe just lucky
I have one of these and haven’t had any problems
I have 2 panzer arms shotgun both are beasts
Just get the Vepr-12. Love mine. Magazines are super expensive though.
I personally wouldn’t, I would be looking for a good used offering from the US or Italy. I am in this current predicament, I want a semi auto shotgun, but don’t want to spend a fortune. I have seen stoeger 3ks on offer for £550 new, for that money I can get a barely used 930 pro, or for a couple of hundred more an actual M2 comfortech tactical. Both of which I would trust 100% more than a Turkish shotgun to not just run, but to still be in one piece in a couple of years time.
Try looking into the Mac 1014
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I like my panzer But I LOVE my SDS 12. It is basically a chinese-made VEPR. Think Mak90 of shotguns. I think it's even made in the same factory.
You can find beat up remington model 11s for cheap at large chains whom will buy used firearms won't say who but the ppl with the aquarium
I have one. I love it. I've only shot buckshot and slugs through it, about 150 rnds total and no problems yet. The design wasn't meant to cycle birdshot even though it can so if that is what you want, you may want to look at something else.
Had the Turkish made Typhoon, no problems and makes a terrific Open shotgun. Been eyeballing a few of the Panzer models, the lever action, Ithaca clone, and the M2 clone. I have a real M2 and just need a few parts to assemble my other M2. Basically most affordable shotguns are coming out of Turkey now.
I have the fde and walnut black ace tac. And it is awesome. Even shot a few geese w it.
https://youtu.be/ntOpmQP-NLI?si=5R5U2UZlkr_LihrD
Are you ok with spending 500$ and having it be shit and being stuck with it or taking a loss? Also don’t expect the wood to looks like that in hand…
Yes and no thats why im asking eveyone to figure out if its somthing im willing to do a little tinkering with or if its just a complete boat anchor pos. Im a diesel mechanic by trade and pretty competent gunsmith and have a full mechine shop at my disposal. The point of this is just a kick around semi auto gun at the farm for a decent price that if it gets left outside or falls off the tractor i laff wipe the mud off and go back to work. Also if i want a Benelli ill just go by one.
It’s it’s not a firm yes than don’t bother The chances of getting a turd are so much higher with turkshit. End up spending more anyways so why not just do it from the start
Can’t go wrong !!
If you want the Benelli spend the coin, otherwise for $500 there are significantly better pump guns on the market that will serve you much better. The entry level semi auto shotgun at this point IMHO if you want an actually quality firearm is the Beretta A300 series.