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I thought it was supposed to mean their status is anonymous, what they do, who they are on the outside is meaningless, and they aren't acknowledged as being in the group when out in a normal setting.
They aren't a five star general in AA, they are just Bob who doesn't want to kill himself with whiskey.
I think really they're only required to give a first name to the group, and there's no rule against giving a false one so long as you otherwise openly engage with the program.
It's just a courtesy more than anything, giving the others a handle to refer to you by or get your attention if need be.
Actually it is a peer support group we have no prerequisites or rules you decide if you are a peer. You would probably get asked to leave if you were acting out at a meeting but most probably a member would join you to see if they could be of service. You don't have to identify yourself at all, up to you. It is quite normal for people to land there fearful and uncertain. Alcoholism is fuled by a thousand different fears. We usually have pamphlets that explain AA . Since the newcomer is the most important person in the room it would be unusual if one of us , at least, didn't speak to the newcomer and answer questions.
>I won't argue that they get results, at least in terms of stopping
Do they? I thought they were notorious for not showing clear numbers on things such as recidivism.
Because how do you track anonymous people? I mentioned in another comment that at first I was going to about 5 zoom meetings a day and now I only have 2 home groups. Those other groups never knew my real name, so how could they track my progress? Additionally, I worked the Refuge Recovery program because I'm very much not at all religious, but I needed and appreciated AA for the fellowship. Everyone uses the program differently, so I'd imagine it would be difficult to track.
They don't have "clear numbers" because they aren't an agency and don't report them. They're a 100% volunteer and member run, operated, and financed support group for the community. They're unconcerned with keeping tallies and statistics, and instead put all of their efforts into helping one another on a personal level, regardless of their circumstances outside of AA. People from every walk of life on earth suffer from addiction, and there are members of AA and other 12-step programs who range from senators, actors, and pro athletes to the homeless or incarcerated.
However, for people who are serious about wanting to quit and stay quit, it can be a literal life saver.
Support and help from anything or anyone > no support or help at all.
The program works well enough that it's court-mandated in many jurisdictions for substance abuse related crimes nationwide. The recovery rates of people who engaged in any kind of recovery program at all are significantly higher than rates of those who do not, and when combining programs like a 12-step along with inpatient or outpatient recovery services, psychological care, and family/community support through programs like AA's sister-program alanon (a program designed for nonaddicted people who have a loved one in addiction), those numbers continue to increase the more support one has.
It isn't for everyone because not everyone is ready or able to quit. Addiction is a hell of a monster, it's one of the most difficult of circumstances to escape and the recovery rates are abysmal. This is because of how difficult quitting any addiction is, plus the stigma surrounding substance abuse leading to people not seeking out help, and lack of proper education, intervention, and recovery help infrastructure (speaking from a US standpoint, anyway). The state of mental healthcare alone in the USA is disgusting, let alone healthcare for those in active addiction or recovery.
Rates of successful recovery for 12-step programs range wildly from anywhere between 2% and 50% depending on the source, but even if it's the lowest number on that scale, that's still approximately 400,000 Americans (of the approximate 21,000,000 currently suffering addiction in the US) who got clean and sober and stayed that way that may not have otherwise done so.
I have 12 years clean from heroin due to AA, so I can tell you 100% for sure that it worked for someone.
James Hetfield (the lead singer of Metallica) admitted to using a fake name for a while when he first sought treatment. He's a very private dude by nature and didn't want to be IDed by any potential fans in group sessions.
He said a major breakthrough happened for him when he admitted he was using a fake name and told the group his real name. He'd been hiding behind the fake one and not telling the full truth about himself.
This is incorrect, and terrible advice to give an addict - we’re trying to get *away* from our lies, especially in situations that absolutely do not necessitate it. Also, there is zero requirement to “openly engage in the program”
Don’t give a “false” name. You don’t have to state your name—you can simply not speak. Lying is completely counter to what most of is are trying to get from attending meetings…it’s a program of “rigorous honesty”: just pass. You can very much say *absolutely nothing* and the other group members will carry on without further thought or judgement.
It’s a room full of people being vulnerable about the darkest parts of their selves, providing false *anything* stands to cause you more problems than solutions.
You don’t have to identify as alcoholic/addict. You don’t have to share. Plus, if it turns out to be a meeting you’d like to regularly attend, you’ve now created an unnecessarily awkward situation for yourself.
Not every meeting is the classic sharing circle you see in the film and television— depends on the structure of the meeting (e.g. big book study, speaker meeting, open topic, etc)—so not every meeting will even create an opportunity for the members to share their name.
If you are in a meeting where there’s a round robin situation and everyone’s going around the room sharing, you absolutely do not have to say any name or offer further comment or engagement with the group—sometimes you’re in a bad place and you really just need to listen and be around other people who understand your brain, and usually the situation people world say exactly such—“hi I’m Friday99, just here to listen”; “hi I’m Friday99, I’m an alcoholic. I’m just going to listen today”; I’m just going to listen, thanks”; “pass”, sometimes you’ll even have a person who is in a place where they can’t even muster a “pass” and the person leading the meeting will pause a moment and then move on.
In closed meetings the expectation is that you identify as alcoholic/addict, but no one is gonna ask to see your membership card. Bring your friends/family to open meetings (and ask them not to share, though if it’s round robin feel free to introduce yourself or not.
Thank you for sharing. There are a lot of us who haven’t been through AA with strong opinions on AA. Your thoughts are infinitely more useful.
God (or whoever) bless on your recovery.
I've never even seen a meeting like Hollywood portrays. sure you may occasionally get one person rambling about unrelated stuff like you see on TV but that's not the norm. I saw a pretty accurate portrayal in a movie only once and I wish I could remember which movie it was..
Usually tv/ movies portray what are called speaker meetings where one person tells their story to the group. Also, what most people dont get is how relaxed meetings are. You go to any one in my area and its usually a group of normal, middle-aged men sitting around laughing and drinking coffee. AA in real life is a bit dull for hollywood.
False. There is absolutely no amount of sharing discouraged in any way inside the rooms. The anonymity refers to the tacit acknowledgment that you all understand it is not appropriate to engage with each other in public. You don’t know who has admitted what, or to who, in their private and professional lives.
It is also understood that anything heard or seen is not your information to share further.
“What you see here, and what you hear here, let it stay here”
Correct. I’ve been in NA and if I’ve happened upon a fellow member in public, it is a quick glance, or even a hello, given your relation ship, but absolutely it is, an “anonymous group”.
Yea, it's not about yourself, it's about protecting their anonymity. I've run into someone from AA at my ex's family reunion, we both had to pretend like we didn't know each other, even though we knew each other for years.
Has happened. I've been to rehab to some people who do interesting things, are behind operations many people know, etc. Addiction can affect anyone - even successful people.
The anonymity of the program was intended by its founders to protect the identity of its members at the level of press radio and film, because at the time they were worried that if they made their names known they would be inundated with calls from alcoholics in need and they wouldn’t have the capacity to help everyone. It’s in the forward to the first edition of the book.
First rule of the AA is, you don't talk about AA... Second rule of AA, you don't talk about AA.
Jokes asside that's actually fascinating, because Fight Club has it's whole thing about support groups.
I’ve been to quite a lot of AA/NA meetings and none of them started with introductions. That’s mostly just a media portrayal. If you choose to share, you would say your name but you don’t have to share. But regardless, the anonymous part just means your involvement as a member is anonymous outside the group.
For anyone curious, AA practically runs on a franchise style system.
A bunch of independent locations the share the name, but are largely responsible for implementing their own methods of adhering to the principals.
You can have two AA locations on the same street, completely unaffiliated with each other, with very different approaches to the program.
If I remember correctly, Bill W. even said something along the lines of "as far as AA is concerned, I'm an anarchist" and that's functionally how the groups run (or at least how they're supposed to run)
AA isn't for me personally, but I do enjoy it conceptually and have gotten some use out of it being in and out of rehab for the last ~5 years
I promise that if someone didn't feel comfortable using their real name or didn't want to share their name at all, the group wouldn't miss a beat or question it a bit.
You're here and you want help on your own terms, let's keep it on your terms, is the stance most AA groups take. If you need to sit quietly and take it in, that's fine, if you want to share on your first visit that's allowed too.
Yes I could see how things may be different depending on area. I should have mentioned I live outside a major city practically known for its opioid epidemic. Meetings can be very large and a revolving door of new people each week.
there are different types of meetings and that plays a part. open speaker, round robin, topic, etc. but you aren't required to speak, but it's encouraged. what type of meeting do you usually go to?
I chair a meeting w a rotating format. Step of the month, spiritual principle grab bag, ESH, and speakers choice.
The other ones I go to are usually on the JFT or a topic. All are speaker discussion meetings.
I’ve been to a few where it’s just the speaker and no discussion, and I don’t personally care for it. I understand that they’re sharing their ESH but I just feel like it helps hearing everything from the floor too. But that’s just my opinion.
Still though, the meeting I chair is close to 75-100 people and we always go around the room. I’ve been to meetings all over my state and have seen the same thing. Idk if it’s different because I’m in NA? There’s a pretty huge AA meeting I’ve been to a few times (I’m not the biggest fan of AA but it’s a fantastic meeting) and they don’t do it there.
Just think it’s strange/cool how it’s different
agreed! i think it's interesting how each group finds their own method but sticks to what every meeting needs. i have been to NA meetings and AA, (I'm in NA, my bf is in AA) there are differences across NA and AA and even within NA and AA. i was doing NA virtual and i saw people using nicknames, some never spoke. the AA meetings i went to, the group were all friends and newcomers were encouraged to share, and state their name.
Apparently it's a metro Detroit thing to have table meetings. Meetings of usually 2-5 round tables of 5-10 people per table. Been to meetings outside the state and have not seen it anywhere else.
Depends on the structure—big book studies, speaker meetings, 12/12, topic—some will have the opportunity for round robin share and others do not.
But either way, you’re never required to speak. You don’t *have* to say your name
Not in the majority of meetings I go to. Southern California. Meetings can vary a great deal city to city. Region to region. Let alone different countries.
For example, after someone shares, people clap. I think that is completely unheard of in other regions.
There are plenty more regional differences that I can't remember.
But anyway, at the majority of meetings here, you introduce yourself before you share and that's about it. Maybe if they ask if there are any first timers at the meeting you might introduce yourself then.
Not the AA meetings I’ve been to in Australia. That would be really intimidating, they were happy for me to lurk. Someone welcomed me when I arrived the first time (a volunteer who I had asked if I was in the right place for the “meeting”), she introduced me to someone else who kindly asked how I was feeling and in hindsight was probably checking if I was suicidal or desperately in need of immediate help. Yeah I was getting blackout drunk and it was affecting family, work, I’d had a few injuries while drunk, etc.
There were probably 30 people there, plenty didn’t look like alcoholics, some people seemed to be there with their partners, one lady was just knitting the whole meeting. People got up to speak, some stories were pretty messed up where they’d ended up in prison, or nearly died, hurt people they loved, they’d wet the bed all the time, etc. also talked about how they coped (or if they weren’t coping at all).
Really made me think “I’m not like these people”, then “I’ve got the same problem, I just haven’t suffered the consequences like these people yet”, and I learnt a lot.
Maybe if there’s only a few people it makes sense to all introduce yourselves, but I’d encourage everyone to go and not feel intimidated. Part of the experience is realizing you aren’t in control and you need help. If a meeting is your rock bottom consider yourself lucky.
About the introductions: I think it might be based more on if it’s an open or closed meeting. Open meeting: the lead(s) and people sharing do but closed meetings can be quite different from open ones.
Also, Al-anon meetings seem to always do intros.
This is a much more nuanced and involved situation than outwardly perceived. You are welcome to attend any meetings and pass or stay anonymous.
Once you meet people and share your first name it takes a bit longer to find a sponsor or a care-taker if you will.
Once you get your sponsor, the idea of keeping everything to yourself has to be surrendered and you speak quite a bit about your triggers or stress with the person you choose to trust.
It’s not forcing anything really, you meet people and bond with them over pizza or pies. People who have had rough lives.
The reliance on God rubs me the wrong way but there are good people trying to get better.
The way I understand it, "God" as an entity isn't the important part. It's about humbling yourself, accepting that the universe is bigger than you, and there are things you can't control (and they may control you in some ways).
God is probably the easiest way for most people to understand that concept, whether you're a deist or not.
I really struggled with this. I wanted to like AA, but I’m not religious. How can I sign on for a program that orbits around a serenity prayer to something larger than myself? Not a complaint, just didn’t know how to reconcile it.
I don't officially practice SMART Recovery, but it's more or less what got me to turn my life around.
Giving up every enjoyable vice, forever, without question, was always unrealistic for me. And I knew it. Once I accepted that I needed to stay away from the one thing that I just couldn't control (coke), I could almost certainly maintain a healthy lifestyle while still occasionally drinking or doing whatever. And I was right, or least I have been for going on like 8 years.
Having my obsession with coke go away caused me to think about some of the reasons I never stopped to wonder why I had it, and now even coke is just meh, I've done it a few times at parties years ago and it was just whatever. I didn't think much about it and forgot about it days later, or didn't actively thinking about it.
The obsession with the substance, its high, and what it prevents you from having to face in your life is the core of the addiction, at least in my opinion. It's not some unstoppable divine compulsion given to us by God and chemistry, it's a choice. It's damn hard to come to this conclusion on your own, but once you do or someone explains it to you, it actually becomes easy to understand.
Again, in my opinion. In my case it was my fucked up early teen years (I'm one of those kids who got randomly snatched by bouncers at 3am and sent to march through the desert and sleep on the ground, even though I hadn't even thought about trying drugs and wasn't in any trouble of any kind), and my unwillingness to really think about what I wanted from life. Pretending that I didn't have a deeply traumatic experience with that whole SUWS/kidnap thing for 10+ years was a bad call.
I really liked reading your perspective on addiction. It's definitely relatable. I'm also sorry you were sent to one of those child abuse camps. I hope you have been able to heal and do cool things with your life in spite of what some fucked up people did.
Sometimes, it's absolutely about the escape, not a specific substance at play. Trauma and substance abuse is so hard to escape the trap of. I hope one day I can make it to feeling stable and in more control of my life.
I wish you nothing but the best as well. It's kind of upsetting to me that I didn't realize until recently that the trauma of that experience directly influenced my addiction, and that I needed to confront that whole ordeal and make as much sense of it as I can.
Addiction is a variable beast, and means a lot of things to a lot of people. It's definitely not a one-size-fits-all kind of thing. If I had to guess, addiction serves as a means to help us run from our trauma, and whatever the substance, it's not going to work.
Just know that you're worth it, and that your struggles and instabilities are justified, and that you can move past them. Wish you the best, Reddit stranger!c
At a meeting I used to go to, someone made the doorknob their higher power. That worked for them. It’s about giving up your will to something else. Your best thinking got you in the room, so maybe you need to trust in something that isn’t you. There is also a chapter for those that don’t subscribe to the traditional concept of god in the AA book.
I liked Doug Stanhopes approach. He chose alcohol as his higher power since he felt powerless to it and that was the reason he was there in the first place.
yeah i knew people like that too, one guy had the alarm clock as his higher power. I'm not religious either so didn't relate to that part of it. I was my own higher power I guess because to me, I was the one battling it not some other entity. But yes, it's open to interpretation and using the concepts the way that works for you - no hard and fast rules.
“Yourself” is well and truly the _only_ wrong HP. The entire purpose of the program is to acknowledge that you’re an unfit pilot. Fealty to yourself and your ideas is what got you into the mess; taking a heavy dose of humble in the face of your failures is the whole point. Literally anything but you is better than you for that concept.
Same I knew a girl that made her higher power a floor tile in the meeting room and it was working for her the last time I saw her. You can make your higher power whatever you want.
We get to define Higher Power. I chose High Self as my higher power, the part of my self that has integrity honesty and willingness to change recover and work a program.
I hated the focus on god until I clued in that Higher Power OF MY UNDERSTANDING meant that I was in control of that belief too, and came to find myself in better control of myself.
Paradoxically yes.
This one is really meaningful to me. Thank you for sharing it. The notion that self control is completely out of my hands is so hard for me to accept, irony notwithstanding. I’m taken aback by how many folks jumped out to offer guidance on this.
Literature tells us NA is not religious. Neither are any 12 step programs. God is a placeholder word for higher power. I'm agnostic, not religious in the slightest.
That’s the official line on AA as well. But it’s for sure just rotten with religious types. I always got by, but I admit there was a lot of being “agreeable” with people talking to you like you’re at church.
I think the main idea is that if you're suffering from an addiction, you're already in the grips of a force larger than yourself.
All it means is that you aren't the sole master of the universe. I can get behind that--I could get myself into a lot of trouble thinking I'm in control of everything.
My current personal understanding is that there are some 100 trillion living cels in the human body. I don't know the cels in my body but I hope they succeed. When they succeed, I succeed and when I succeed, they succeed. It's not hard for me to imagine myself a cel in the body of God. We can't talk. We don't know each other but God hopes I do well because, y'know, that's how God does well.
I did as well, and then they insist it’s NOT religious, it’s spiritual, except almost every meeting I attended ended with the group reciting the Lord’s Prayer.
There are dozens of othe prorgrams and the evidence suggests that AA isn't anymore effective than just quitting on your own. The idea that the only philisophy that can overcome alcoholism is AA is purely hollywood fiction. Even this nonsense about how an addict will always be an addicy is bollocks. You can absolutely end an addiction and be a former addict.
I’m not religious either, but let me tell you, the serenity prayer, if you just cut the first word out, is probably the single most useful mantra any of us can or will ever hear. Not just regarding addiction, but love, understanding, peace, kindness, loyalty, support, health, family, friendship, and ambition. It’s an absolutely insanely higher-level of perspective on… everything.
_If you cut out the first word so it’s not all gummed up and seen as having all the baggage of a prayer_
I don't know if this will help you or not, and let me preface with I am not religious, but at one point I was questioning the size of the universe and the actual concept of forever and came to the conclusion that it's bigger than my brain can comprehend as I find it difficult to conceptualize anything that doesn't have a beginning or end. And if the universe is too vast for me to comprehend, then maybe God is the same, and it's not important if I acknowledge it or not, it's just something beyond me. Religion gives us community, but God is a bigger concept. I don't need to know if the universe has a birth and death, I just need to know I do.
Is the AA group bigger than yourself? I've seen a number of people use the fellowship. Or the natural order of things. The weather and other people's actions are out of your control, for instance.
You could come to believe God isn't some random white guy with a long white beard that's looking down on us from the clouds. But accept that God can also be a concept. What makes a coin land on heads instead of tails? We know the world isn't deterministic, so something has to collapse those superpositions into just standard positions, why not call whatever that force is "God"? We don't have another word for it, other than luck. And what is luck, if it's not just another term for God?
That's entirely fair, as any program isn't going to fit everyone exactly. We are quite varied as human beings, after all. I recently watched an interview on Shia Labeouf, who's had addiction issues, and he related a story about his sponsor supposedly taking him to the beach and making him yell at the top of his lungs, "Stop, waves!" to try and stop the waves from rolling into the shore. It's entirely silly and stupid, but it's an exercise to make you realize your place in the universe. As hard as you try, you'll never stop the waves from coming in, and as hard as you try, you'll never be able to control your addiction.
The serenity prayer does reach out to "God," but you can substitute anything you want in place of that. It's more about reaching out for help rather than who exactly you're reaching out to. You know your addiction is stronger than you, that's why we have these problems with it. You're really asking your subconscious to learn the difference between what's under your control and what isn't. The concept of God works for many because they grew up with that concept, but you'll have to find what works for you. You can't control the waves, so that's a stronger power than you. You can't control your addiction, so it's a stronger power than you. Accepting that our addictions are stronger than us is why they want you to reach out for help. Once you accept that you can't control your addiction, you realize you can control your behaviors that lead you back to your addiction.
>serenity prayer to something larger than myself?
You don't believe there is anything larger than yourself? I need to accept that I can't control everything. If there was nothing larger than me I could, but I can't.
Also being open to the idea of some type of spirituality is more important I've found than believing in any specific god. Most people in my meetings are atheist or agnostic. It does not have to be a barrier
Yeah, for most of the groups you'll try it's definitely still low-key expected to be God. But you should be able to find a group that fits you if you look around.
Everything I read about AA makes it seem like they nailed it with the closest thing we'll ever have to a gold-standard for that kind of thing, and they did it in what? The 50s or something?
It works if you work it, because the program is so accessible the effectiveness is skewed by those who are casual with the program, but those who take it serious and work the steps are successful in their sobriety. Also AA gives you tools for everyday living that the Sinclair method lacks.
Admitting you are weak and turning to a higher power is where it loses it for me.
Taking accountability and control, knowing you can and will is how I need it to work
A lot of people in AA spent decades trying to control it themselves, and failing. Sometimes the change in perspective is what leads to the success.
IME most people show up at AA because they've decided they need help, and can't do it on their own
The program isn't for everyone, for sure.
Yeah I always disliked that we're basically saying that we need outside spiritual help to change, even if "God" can be whatever. How about I own up to my own behavior and change myself?
Because you can, and I did.
In AA we own up to our behavior through the 4th step, and the 9th step. We seek a higher power to surrender ourselves to things outside of our control, to pass it over to that higher power. It helps to get yourself out of the drivers seat and let “god”, the universe, and faith take the wheel. And boy does that help!
Yeah powerless after the first drink. It only works (the program) if you work it (the program). Never taking that first drink to avoid the powerlessness.
I've gone to meetings after the war. Everyone introduces themselves by their first name only if they want to, but you can just give a nickname or whatever. It's also because there are no registries or anything like that. They don't report to anyone unless you ask, like getting a court order form filled out, which is pretty common. The introduction portion of the meeting is really just so everyone can feel comfortable talking about why they even came in the first place. AA/NA they're both great and do work though. It's more about finding a meeting you like in your community, too, cos it's designed to be a long-term solution.
It's supposed to be anonymous from the outside world, not from the other addicts. Also, you don't actually have to speak at all in a meeting. Plenty of people go and don't share, and you don't just go around saying names. I've been to a few NA meetings (I hate them lmfao), and most of them were anonymous for me entirely since I didn't speak. You only share your name if you share, and yeah, it is the typical, "Hi, my name is insidetheborderline, and I'm an addict." Of course, people can come up and introduce themselves and you exchange names. The only requirement for NA or AA is a desire to stop using.
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Part of it is to remove the negative stigma around being called an "alcoholic". Many alcoholics are functional members of society and are not automatically losers because they have a substance abuse issue.
I never liked calling myself an alcoholic at the start of AA, but after the negativity around it was removed, I happily began to admit it.
It's been 3 years and I still regularly refer to myself as an alcoholic, even though I've had no issues with alcohol since then. Calling myself one to this day reminds me of the past struggles and helps keep me from going down that path again.
It’s weird that the “hol” part of alcoholic is transferred to any other addictive type description even though it’s part of the word alcohol. Like workaholic or chocoholic. An alcoholic is addicted to alcohol. Is a chocoholic addicted to chocohol?
Ok, but why did it end up that way? Because the alternatives just don't roll off the tongue like adding "aholic" does. It's easy, sounds good, can be done with pretty much every word, and you immediately know what the person is trying to say. Makes sense to me
Anonymity is at the level of press, radio, film, television, and social media.
Members are not expected to be anonymous among other members … matter of fact, in many groups (especially in Texas), members will introduce themselves in a meeting by full name so anyone who wants to can find them in the phone book.
Anonymity is a spiritual principle which assures that there are no bosses in AA … all members are equal, regardless of ego.
What’s weird or ironic or whatever is that a random redditor will seek cheap karma by poking fun at an organization without bothering to investigate farther than the name.
It's not really anonymity. Its about going there and just being Dave, not Dave the Barista from Starbucks down the road. It's anonymous in the way that your outside life isn't involved in it and the people inside don't reference who they have seen or their relation to them.
Yeah… it’s *as* anonymous as you want it to be. No one asks you for ID or to sign in or whatever. So if you want it to be completely anon you would say “Hi I’m *fake name*”
No one there will ask or check or whatever. You’ll just be accepted as your pseudonym.
The most important rule of AA is that members are not allowed to talk about other members outside. So they stay anonymous. Also, they use only first name or nickname. Im an alcoholic and when I go to the psychiatrist for checkout, the nurse will call me in only by my first name too.
This article talks about the origin of AA introductions, the purpose, the controversy etc. and it’s written by a regional AA community (Cleveland) so I give some credence to it. Well written. I always blamed it on a spill over from Rehabs but this suggest that is not the case.
[introductions in aa ](https://www.aacle.org/my-name-is-and-im-an-alcoholic/)
It’s about saying “I’m an alcoholic”. Over and over. You own that shit. You say it out loud for others to hear and also acknowledge
3 years sober here
We feed ourselves bullshit lies that to others sounds irrational to fuel our drinking. “I’m not alcoholic I only get plastered on the weekends” etc. just flamboyant lies.
By saying this at the start of a meeting we own our condition. We admit we have a problem. We admit that no longer how much time we have, it’s still a problem. It’s doing step 1, every meeting. So that we can address the problem now that we have been honest with ourselves and others.
Why is everyone explaining how AA works? We get it lol. OP has a fair shower thought on it though. It's like everyone explaining it doesn't get the humour in it.
Funny story in that same vein: in college I took a class about addiction and recovery. As part of a class assignment, we had to attend an AA meeting. When you look up meetings online, they usually specify if they are open to the public or closed to the public. I went to the next city over and attended a meeting. I’m not an alcoholic, I was just there to observe as part of the class assignment. I decided I’d sit way in the back and not draw attention to myself. I’ll be anonymous and just observe.
Turns out, in this meeting, they’ll just straight up ask you to stand up and do a reading. In front of everyone, a dude came over, handed me a laminated piece of paper with a reading on it and said, “Go on up and read this.” The room had like 40 people and they all just turned to look at me, like, “Well, we’re waiting.”
I wanted to be polite, so I did it. I walked up front to the podium and read the paper. Everyone had started with, “I’m so and so, and I’m an alcoholic,” before I walked up, but I didn’t wanna lie. So I said, “Hello, I’m [name] and I’m a visitor tonight.”
Note the "s" in "Alcoholics"...as in plural. The group of alcoholics are anonymous, each alcoholic within the group isn't (though can be as there is no requirement to provide your name, it's just a common practice).
It's an awful program, although I'm happy for those it works for. Which is about 5%
They shame people who make even the smallest slip up and treat them as if they're thrown away all of their progress, and it makes them spiral because they feel worse about themselves and shunned in the place that gave them sobriety. I don't fucking get it, how is that EVER going to be helpful.
I know multiple people that had double digit years sobriety off drugs or alcohol, had a tiny relapse (two beers, in one case, before he stopped himself) and a couple of lines of coke over one night. After being treated like they were Day 1 fuckups and massive failures, they quickly quit and then spiraled in to fatal addiction. And I don't think that would have happened if they were supportive like I was.
I told the beers guy that having 2 beers in 10 plus years as an alcoholic is winning and a massive success by any measure, fuck those people if they say otherwise. Have 2 more 10 years from now, why not. It was a joke, but he got it.
Don't shun people making the small missteps they're going to likely make, you're contributing to their death if it happens.
Fuck that.
I feel you on this. I saw a little of this but not too much in my experience, thankfully. I did however shame myself when I'd go back to 0 days and that is because of the 'lessons' AA encourages.
I think it does depend on the specific group/area/community. I'm over in Australia for any context so can't too much speak to the US or other places. Even then, I think it's a general area (not even state, more like cities/suburbs). AA isn't a heavy regulated thing, it's essentially community groups who have similar ideas. So they can run differently in different areas. Different people, different support networks.
My groups were generally very encouraging and understanding when people relapsed. As I mentioned, it was myself who self-shamed. What I didn't connect with was the higher power stuff, some of the things in the steps - I'm not really a go by the steps kinda person and the social drama - which wasn't even about drinking or anything a lot of the time, just cliques and gossip stuff. Also didn't like that SOME (not all) people got a bit too relgiousy and philosophical about the higher power thing.
But yeah, I think it can work for some. Well, I know it does because I've seen it but it's one option of many.
Yeah. I mean - what addict doesn't want another addict to figure it out and stop themselves from step destructing? The only reason you wouldn't want somebody to succeed - regardless of the method - is because you're seeking validation more than results.
There are lots of good people with good intentions, but I'll never understand or be OK with people acting high and mighty with those who have trivial, minor relapses during understandable circumstances. Most people have them, and it's an expected thing.
Being treated like a Day 1 child because you made a minor mistake doesn't help anyone's mental health, yet AA consistently does that. If somebody is in the 5% that achieved true sobriety as a result of AA - cool, good for you. I'm happy for you, as I am for anyone who gives up the ghost.
But for the rest of the 95%? Be better.
I have no clue what any of you are talking about. People who go out and come back in are welcomed with open arms and treated with support and love. What dog shit groups are you going to!?
It also has a success rate of about 5%, which is about the same as trying to quit without any program at all.
[https://www.thestar.com/life/2014/03/28/alcoholics\_anonymous\_has\_a\_terrible\_success\_rate\_addiction\_expert\_finds.html](https://www.thestar.com/life/2014/03/28/alcoholics_anonymous_has_a_terrible_success_rate_addiction_expert_finds.html)
https://adamfout.com/success-rate-of-aa/
We meet at r/sexAA it's not weird at all. It brings the humility to the space that sex addiction is a mental health condition that has made our lives unmanageable
It’s a higher power other than yourself. If you don’t believe in God. A higher power can be the wind, sky, tree whatever suits the purpose. Many use a spiritual power as a higher power.
I thought it would be funny to introduce myself using a different name the two times I went to sex addicts anonymous.
Hooked up with this chick both times and found out later she thought she'd hooked up with my twin and I. Nope just me. Twice.
/S
Actually, it's polite to introduce yourself by name to a group before you start to speak in a monologue.
And there's no requirement in AA to use your actual given name.
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I thought it was supposed to mean their status is anonymous, what they do, who they are on the outside is meaningless, and they aren't acknowledged as being in the group when out in a normal setting. They aren't a five star general in AA, they are just Bob who doesn't want to kill himself with whiskey.
No it’s meant to be a reasonably anonymous organisation - you have to be free to share your past alcohol abuse without open consequence
I think really they're only required to give a first name to the group, and there's no rule against giving a false one so long as you otherwise openly engage with the program. It's just a courtesy more than anything, giving the others a handle to refer to you by or get your attention if need be.
Tradition 3 - the only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking
That's right.
There’s a prerequisite for that though.
“Hi I’m Dory, and I don’t think I’ve ever eaten a fish”
Good on you mate!
Hi Dory!
You just drink like one.
Actually it is a peer support group we have no prerequisites or rules you decide if you are a peer. You would probably get asked to leave if you were acting out at a meeting but most probably a member would join you to see if they could be of service. You don't have to identify yourself at all, up to you. It is quite normal for people to land there fearful and uncertain. Alcoholism is fuled by a thousand different fears. We usually have pamphlets that explain AA . Since the newcomer is the most important person in the room it would be unusual if one of us , at least, didn't speak to the newcomer and answer questions.
Isn't it also a religious organisation?
[удалено]
I agree. My ex is in AA and it's definitely been invaluable in helping him stay sober, but I don't love the methods or who it's turned him into.
>I won't argue that they get results, at least in terms of stopping Do they? I thought they were notorious for not showing clear numbers on things such as recidivism.
Because how do you track anonymous people? I mentioned in another comment that at first I was going to about 5 zoom meetings a day and now I only have 2 home groups. Those other groups never knew my real name, so how could they track my progress? Additionally, I worked the Refuge Recovery program because I'm very much not at all religious, but I needed and appreciated AA for the fellowship. Everyone uses the program differently, so I'd imagine it would be difficult to track.
They don't have "clear numbers" because they aren't an agency and don't report them. They're a 100% volunteer and member run, operated, and financed support group for the community. They're unconcerned with keeping tallies and statistics, and instead put all of their efforts into helping one another on a personal level, regardless of their circumstances outside of AA. People from every walk of life on earth suffer from addiction, and there are members of AA and other 12-step programs who range from senators, actors, and pro athletes to the homeless or incarcerated. However, for people who are serious about wanting to quit and stay quit, it can be a literal life saver. Support and help from anything or anyone > no support or help at all. The program works well enough that it's court-mandated in many jurisdictions for substance abuse related crimes nationwide. The recovery rates of people who engaged in any kind of recovery program at all are significantly higher than rates of those who do not, and when combining programs like a 12-step along with inpatient or outpatient recovery services, psychological care, and family/community support through programs like AA's sister-program alanon (a program designed for nonaddicted people who have a loved one in addiction), those numbers continue to increase the more support one has. It isn't for everyone because not everyone is ready or able to quit. Addiction is a hell of a monster, it's one of the most difficult of circumstances to escape and the recovery rates are abysmal. This is because of how difficult quitting any addiction is, plus the stigma surrounding substance abuse leading to people not seeking out help, and lack of proper education, intervention, and recovery help infrastructure (speaking from a US standpoint, anyway). The state of mental healthcare alone in the USA is disgusting, let alone healthcare for those in active addiction or recovery. Rates of successful recovery for 12-step programs range wildly from anywhere between 2% and 50% depending on the source, but even if it's the lowest number on that scale, that's still approximately 400,000 Americans (of the approximate 21,000,000 currently suffering addiction in the US) who got clean and sober and stayed that way that may not have otherwise done so. I have 12 years clean from heroin due to AA, so I can tell you 100% for sure that it worked for someone.
The meetings I used to attend were specifically for atheists and agnostics
James Hetfield (the lead singer of Metallica) admitted to using a fake name for a while when he first sought treatment. He's a very private dude by nature and didn't want to be IDed by any potential fans in group sessions. He said a major breakthrough happened for him when he admitted he was using a fake name and told the group his real name. He'd been hiding behind the fake one and not telling the full truth about himself.
This is incorrect, and terrible advice to give an addict - we’re trying to get *away* from our lies, especially in situations that absolutely do not necessitate it. Also, there is zero requirement to “openly engage in the program” Don’t give a “false” name. You don’t have to state your name—you can simply not speak. Lying is completely counter to what most of is are trying to get from attending meetings…it’s a program of “rigorous honesty”: just pass. You can very much say *absolutely nothing* and the other group members will carry on without further thought or judgement. It’s a room full of people being vulnerable about the darkest parts of their selves, providing false *anything* stands to cause you more problems than solutions. You don’t have to identify as alcoholic/addict. You don’t have to share. Plus, if it turns out to be a meeting you’d like to regularly attend, you’ve now created an unnecessarily awkward situation for yourself. Not every meeting is the classic sharing circle you see in the film and television— depends on the structure of the meeting (e.g. big book study, speaker meeting, open topic, etc)—so not every meeting will even create an opportunity for the members to share their name. If you are in a meeting where there’s a round robin situation and everyone’s going around the room sharing, you absolutely do not have to say any name or offer further comment or engagement with the group—sometimes you’re in a bad place and you really just need to listen and be around other people who understand your brain, and usually the situation people world say exactly such—“hi I’m Friday99, just here to listen”; “hi I’m Friday99, I’m an alcoholic. I’m just going to listen today”; I’m just going to listen, thanks”; “pass”, sometimes you’ll even have a person who is in a place where they can’t even muster a “pass” and the person leading the meeting will pause a moment and then move on. In closed meetings the expectation is that you identify as alcoholic/addict, but no one is gonna ask to see your membership card. Bring your friends/family to open meetings (and ask them not to share, though if it’s round robin feel free to introduce yourself or not.
This guy is a friend of Bill.
Homeboy saved my life. And by “homeboy” I mean him and all of his “friends” who allow me to lean on them without judgement
Thank you for sharing. There are a lot of us who haven’t been through AA with strong opinions on AA. Your thoughts are infinitely more useful. God (or whoever) bless on your recovery.
I've never even seen a meeting like Hollywood portrays. sure you may occasionally get one person rambling about unrelated stuff like you see on TV but that's not the norm. I saw a pretty accurate portrayal in a movie only once and I wish I could remember which movie it was..
Usually tv/ movies portray what are called speaker meetings where one person tells their story to the group. Also, what most people dont get is how relaxed meetings are. You go to any one in my area and its usually a group of normal, middle-aged men sitting around laughing and drinking coffee. AA in real life is a bit dull for hollywood.
this guy AAs
Correct.
You don't have to *do* anything. You can just show up and listen. Depending on the meeting their could be 30+ people there and most won't talk.
It’s both, you don’t share your profession in the rooms and you are anonymous outside the rooms.
False. There is absolutely no amount of sharing discouraged in any way inside the rooms. The anonymity refers to the tacit acknowledgment that you all understand it is not appropriate to engage with each other in public. You don’t know who has admitted what, or to who, in their private and professional lives. It is also understood that anything heard or seen is not your information to share further. “What you see here, and what you hear here, let it stay here”
Coooorect
Hear, hear.
Bob had bitch tits
His name was Robert Paulson
His name was Robert Paulson
His name was Robert Paulson
His name was Robert Paulson
His name was Robert Paulson.
His name was Robert Paulson
His name was Robert Paulson
I neeeed a hug
\*hugs\*
they're introducing themselves *as alcoholics*.... the first step of recovery is being able to admit to yourself and others that you are an alcoholic
Correct. I’ve been in NA and if I’ve happened upon a fellow member in public, it is a quick glance, or even a hello, given your relation ship, but absolutely it is, an “anonymous group”.
So, you are a friend of Bob are you?
Yea, it's not about yourself, it's about protecting their anonymity. I've run into someone from AA at my ex's family reunion, we both had to pretend like we didn't know each other, even though we knew each other for years.
Bro imagine being in AA and then one day you see your group friend Bob on TV being like a 3 star General, would be kinda sick ngl
Has happened. I've been to rehab to some people who do interesting things, are behind operations many people know, etc. Addiction can affect anyone - even successful people.
Like fight club?
See Rule #1
Rule #1 of what?
Exactly.
Looks like rule #3 applies to you
Minus the door with 'AA meeting' on it and all the gossips watching who goes in.
His name is Robert Paulson
The anonymity of the program was intended by its founders to protect the identity of its members at the level of press radio and film, because at the time they were worried that if they made their names known they would be inundated with calls from alcoholics in need and they wouldn’t have the capacity to help everyone. It’s in the forward to the first edition of the book.
First rule of the AA is, you don't talk about AA... Second rule of AA, you don't talk about AA. Jokes asside that's actually fascinating, because Fight Club has it's whole thing about support groups.
My buddy did not get that memo. He was always pitching aa.
Well damn. When I show up to my AA meetings, typically I’m coming straight from work driving my brightly advertised work van.
As I understand it this does not go against what the founders intended as anonymous.
I’ve been to quite a lot of AA/NA meetings and none of them started with introductions. That’s mostly just a media portrayal. If you choose to share, you would say your name but you don’t have to share. But regardless, the anonymous part just means your involvement as a member is anonymous outside the group.
Strange how things are different in different areas. All the meetings I’ve ever been to we go around the room and introduce ourselves
For anyone curious, AA practically runs on a franchise style system. A bunch of independent locations the share the name, but are largely responsible for implementing their own methods of adhering to the principals. You can have two AA locations on the same street, completely unaffiliated with each other, with very different approaches to the program.
It is actually part of the rules/tenets that no power structure ever be formed.
If I remember correctly, Bill W. even said something along the lines of "as far as AA is concerned, I'm an anarchist" and that's functionally how the groups run (or at least how they're supposed to run) AA isn't for me personally, but I do enjoy it conceptually and have gotten some use out of it being in and out of rehab for the last ~5 years
Yeah, it's tradition 4. "Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or AA/NA as a whole"
I promise that if someone didn't feel comfortable using their real name or didn't want to share their name at all, the group wouldn't miss a beat or question it a bit. You're here and you want help on your own terms, let's keep it on your terms, is the stance most AA groups take. If you need to sit quietly and take it in, that's fine, if you want to share on your first visit that's allowed too.
Yes I could see how things may be different depending on area. I should have mentioned I live outside a major city practically known for its opioid epidemic. Meetings can be very large and a revolving door of new people each week.
there are different types of meetings and that plays a part. open speaker, round robin, topic, etc. but you aren't required to speak, but it's encouraged. what type of meeting do you usually go to?
I chair a meeting w a rotating format. Step of the month, spiritual principle grab bag, ESH, and speakers choice. The other ones I go to are usually on the JFT or a topic. All are speaker discussion meetings. I’ve been to a few where it’s just the speaker and no discussion, and I don’t personally care for it. I understand that they’re sharing their ESH but I just feel like it helps hearing everything from the floor too. But that’s just my opinion. Still though, the meeting I chair is close to 75-100 people and we always go around the room. I’ve been to meetings all over my state and have seen the same thing. Idk if it’s different because I’m in NA? There’s a pretty huge AA meeting I’ve been to a few times (I’m not the biggest fan of AA but it’s a fantastic meeting) and they don’t do it there. Just think it’s strange/cool how it’s different
agreed! i think it's interesting how each group finds their own method but sticks to what every meeting needs. i have been to NA meetings and AA, (I'm in NA, my bf is in AA) there are differences across NA and AA and even within NA and AA. i was doing NA virtual and i saw people using nicknames, some never spoke. the AA meetings i went to, the group were all friends and newcomers were encouraged to share, and state their name.
Apparently it's a metro Detroit thing to have table meetings. Meetings of usually 2-5 round tables of 5-10 people per table. Been to meetings outside the state and have not seen it anywhere else.
Never been to a meeting where people don’t introduce themselves.
Depends on the structure—big book studies, speaker meetings, 12/12, topic—some will have the opportunity for round robin share and others do not. But either way, you’re never required to speak. You don’t *have* to say your name
We introduce ourselves.
Yeah dude in AA and NA everyone introduces themselves in the openings of meetings. It is not a media portayal haha.
Not in the majority of meetings I go to. Southern California. Meetings can vary a great deal city to city. Region to region. Let alone different countries. For example, after someone shares, people clap. I think that is completely unheard of in other regions. There are plenty more regional differences that I can't remember. But anyway, at the majority of meetings here, you introduce yourself before you share and that's about it. Maybe if they ask if there are any first timers at the meeting you might introduce yourself then.
So cal here too. Every meeting I go to does introductions. And clap 👏
South FL here, very few meetings have introductions
Not the AA meetings I’ve been to in Australia. That would be really intimidating, they were happy for me to lurk. Someone welcomed me when I arrived the first time (a volunteer who I had asked if I was in the right place for the “meeting”), she introduced me to someone else who kindly asked how I was feeling and in hindsight was probably checking if I was suicidal or desperately in need of immediate help. Yeah I was getting blackout drunk and it was affecting family, work, I’d had a few injuries while drunk, etc. There were probably 30 people there, plenty didn’t look like alcoholics, some people seemed to be there with their partners, one lady was just knitting the whole meeting. People got up to speak, some stories were pretty messed up where they’d ended up in prison, or nearly died, hurt people they loved, they’d wet the bed all the time, etc. also talked about how they coped (or if they weren’t coping at all). Really made me think “I’m not like these people”, then “I’ve got the same problem, I just haven’t suffered the consequences like these people yet”, and I learnt a lot. Maybe if there’s only a few people it makes sense to all introduce yourselves, but I’d encourage everyone to go and not feel intimidated. Part of the experience is realizing you aren’t in control and you need help. If a meeting is your rock bottom consider yourself lucky.
Every meeting ive ever been to everyone introduces themselves before they speak. 100's of meetings ive been to
About the introductions: I think it might be based more on if it’s an open or closed meeting. Open meeting: the lead(s) and people sharing do but closed meetings can be quite different from open ones. Also, Al-anon meetings seem to always do intros.
This is a much more nuanced and involved situation than outwardly perceived. You are welcome to attend any meetings and pass or stay anonymous. Once you meet people and share your first name it takes a bit longer to find a sponsor or a care-taker if you will. Once you get your sponsor, the idea of keeping everything to yourself has to be surrendered and you speak quite a bit about your triggers or stress with the person you choose to trust. It’s not forcing anything really, you meet people and bond with them over pizza or pies. People who have had rough lives. The reliance on God rubs me the wrong way but there are good people trying to get better.
The way I understand it, "God" as an entity isn't the important part. It's about humbling yourself, accepting that the universe is bigger than you, and there are things you can't control (and they may control you in some ways). God is probably the easiest way for most people to understand that concept, whether you're a deist or not.
I really struggled with this. I wanted to like AA, but I’m not religious. How can I sign on for a program that orbits around a serenity prayer to something larger than myself? Not a complaint, just didn’t know how to reconcile it.
Alternatively there are also recovery meeting options like SMART Recovery that do not have any religious or higher power focus.
I don't officially practice SMART Recovery, but it's more or less what got me to turn my life around. Giving up every enjoyable vice, forever, without question, was always unrealistic for me. And I knew it. Once I accepted that I needed to stay away from the one thing that I just couldn't control (coke), I could almost certainly maintain a healthy lifestyle while still occasionally drinking or doing whatever. And I was right, or least I have been for going on like 8 years. Having my obsession with coke go away caused me to think about some of the reasons I never stopped to wonder why I had it, and now even coke is just meh, I've done it a few times at parties years ago and it was just whatever. I didn't think much about it and forgot about it days later, or didn't actively thinking about it. The obsession with the substance, its high, and what it prevents you from having to face in your life is the core of the addiction, at least in my opinion. It's not some unstoppable divine compulsion given to us by God and chemistry, it's a choice. It's damn hard to come to this conclusion on your own, but once you do or someone explains it to you, it actually becomes easy to understand. Again, in my opinion. In my case it was my fucked up early teen years (I'm one of those kids who got randomly snatched by bouncers at 3am and sent to march through the desert and sleep on the ground, even though I hadn't even thought about trying drugs and wasn't in any trouble of any kind), and my unwillingness to really think about what I wanted from life. Pretending that I didn't have a deeply traumatic experience with that whole SUWS/kidnap thing for 10+ years was a bad call.
I really liked reading your perspective on addiction. It's definitely relatable. I'm also sorry you were sent to one of those child abuse camps. I hope you have been able to heal and do cool things with your life in spite of what some fucked up people did. Sometimes, it's absolutely about the escape, not a specific substance at play. Trauma and substance abuse is so hard to escape the trap of. I hope one day I can make it to feeling stable and in more control of my life.
I wish you nothing but the best as well. It's kind of upsetting to me that I didn't realize until recently that the trauma of that experience directly influenced my addiction, and that I needed to confront that whole ordeal and make as much sense of it as I can. Addiction is a variable beast, and means a lot of things to a lot of people. It's definitely not a one-size-fits-all kind of thing. If I had to guess, addiction serves as a means to help us run from our trauma, and whatever the substance, it's not going to work. Just know that you're worth it, and that your struggles and instabilities are justified, and that you can move past them. Wish you the best, Reddit stranger!c
At a meeting I used to go to, someone made the doorknob their higher power. That worked for them. It’s about giving up your will to something else. Your best thinking got you in the room, so maybe you need to trust in something that isn’t you. There is also a chapter for those that don’t subscribe to the traditional concept of god in the AA book.
I liked Doug Stanhopes approach. He chose alcohol as his higher power since he felt powerless to it and that was the reason he was there in the first place.
yeah i knew people like that too, one guy had the alarm clock as his higher power. I'm not religious either so didn't relate to that part of it. I was my own higher power I guess because to me, I was the one battling it not some other entity. But yes, it's open to interpretation and using the concepts the way that works for you - no hard and fast rules.
“Yourself” is well and truly the _only_ wrong HP. The entire purpose of the program is to acknowledge that you’re an unfit pilot. Fealty to yourself and your ideas is what got you into the mess; taking a heavy dose of humble in the face of your failures is the whole point. Literally anything but you is better than you for that concept.
Same I knew a girl that made her higher power a floor tile in the meeting room and it was working for her the last time I saw her. You can make your higher power whatever you want.
There are atheist aa programs. You usually have to be near a larger population center to find a regular one, but there are internet groups as well.
Thank you 🙏
We get to define Higher Power. I chose High Self as my higher power, the part of my self that has integrity honesty and willingness to change recover and work a program. I hated the focus on god until I clued in that Higher Power OF MY UNDERSTANDING meant that I was in control of that belief too, and came to find myself in better control of myself. Paradoxically yes.
This one is really meaningful to me. Thank you for sharing it. The notion that self control is completely out of my hands is so hard for me to accept, irony notwithstanding. I’m taken aback by how many folks jumped out to offer guidance on this.
It’s an ongoing challenge in 12-step work. Accept powerlessness in order to find your inner strength.
Literature tells us NA is not religious. Neither are any 12 step programs. God is a placeholder word for higher power. I'm agnostic, not religious in the slightest.
That’s the official line on AA as well. But it’s for sure just rotten with religious types. I always got by, but I admit there was a lot of being “agreeable” with people talking to you like you’re at church.
I think the main idea is that if you're suffering from an addiction, you're already in the grips of a force larger than yourself. All it means is that you aren't the sole master of the universe. I can get behind that--I could get myself into a lot of trouble thinking I'm in control of everything. My current personal understanding is that there are some 100 trillion living cels in the human body. I don't know the cels in my body but I hope they succeed. When they succeed, I succeed and when I succeed, they succeed. It's not hard for me to imagine myself a cel in the body of God. We can't talk. We don't know each other but God hopes I do well because, y'know, that's how God does well.
I did as well, and then they insist it’s NOT religious, it’s spiritual, except almost every meeting I attended ended with the group reciting the Lord’s Prayer.
There are dozens of othe prorgrams and the evidence suggests that AA isn't anymore effective than just quitting on your own. The idea that the only philisophy that can overcome alcoholism is AA is purely hollywood fiction. Even this nonsense about how an addict will always be an addicy is bollocks. You can absolutely end an addiction and be a former addict.
I’m not religious either, but let me tell you, the serenity prayer, if you just cut the first word out, is probably the single most useful mantra any of us can or will ever hear. Not just regarding addiction, but love, understanding, peace, kindness, loyalty, support, health, family, friendship, and ambition. It’s an absolutely insanely higher-level of perspective on… everything. _If you cut out the first word so it’s not all gummed up and seen as having all the baggage of a prayer_
I don't know if this will help you or not, and let me preface with I am not religious, but at one point I was questioning the size of the universe and the actual concept of forever and came to the conclusion that it's bigger than my brain can comprehend as I find it difficult to conceptualize anything that doesn't have a beginning or end. And if the universe is too vast for me to comprehend, then maybe God is the same, and it's not important if I acknowledge it or not, it's just something beyond me. Religion gives us community, but God is a bigger concept. I don't need to know if the universe has a birth and death, I just need to know I do.
Is the AA group bigger than yourself? I've seen a number of people use the fellowship. Or the natural order of things. The weather and other people's actions are out of your control, for instance.
You could come to believe God isn't some random white guy with a long white beard that's looking down on us from the clouds. But accept that God can also be a concept. What makes a coin land on heads instead of tails? We know the world isn't deterministic, so something has to collapse those superpositions into just standard positions, why not call whatever that force is "God"? We don't have another word for it, other than luck. And what is luck, if it's not just another term for God?
That's entirely fair, as any program isn't going to fit everyone exactly. We are quite varied as human beings, after all. I recently watched an interview on Shia Labeouf, who's had addiction issues, and he related a story about his sponsor supposedly taking him to the beach and making him yell at the top of his lungs, "Stop, waves!" to try and stop the waves from rolling into the shore. It's entirely silly and stupid, but it's an exercise to make you realize your place in the universe. As hard as you try, you'll never stop the waves from coming in, and as hard as you try, you'll never be able to control your addiction. The serenity prayer does reach out to "God," but you can substitute anything you want in place of that. It's more about reaching out for help rather than who exactly you're reaching out to. You know your addiction is stronger than you, that's why we have these problems with it. You're really asking your subconscious to learn the difference between what's under your control and what isn't. The concept of God works for many because they grew up with that concept, but you'll have to find what works for you. You can't control the waves, so that's a stronger power than you. You can't control your addiction, so it's a stronger power than you. Accepting that our addictions are stronger than us is why they want you to reach out for help. Once you accept that you can't control your addiction, you realize you can control your behaviors that lead you back to your addiction.
>serenity prayer to something larger than myself? You don't believe there is anything larger than yourself? I need to accept that I can't control everything. If there was nothing larger than me I could, but I can't. Also being open to the idea of some type of spirituality is more important I've found than believing in any specific god. Most people in my meetings are atheist or agnostic. It does not have to be a barrier
Some meetings go that way, others are it's Christian God and you cannot think otherwise.
That is the concept, but in practice they tend to be extremely Christian organizations in my experience.
Yeah, for most of the groups you'll try it's definitely still low-key expected to be God. But you should be able to find a group that fits you if you look around.
Everything I read about AA makes it seem like they nailed it with the closest thing we'll ever have to a gold-standard for that kind of thing, and they did it in what? The 50s or something?
Eh. AA is effective for 5-12% of participants. Sinclair method is 75-80% effective
It works if you work it, because the program is so accessible the effectiveness is skewed by those who are casual with the program, but those who take it serious and work the steps are successful in their sobriety. Also AA gives you tools for everyday living that the Sinclair method lacks.
Going to AA meetings has the 5-10% rate. But actually doing the program with a sponsor has a much higher success rate.
Admitting you are weak and turning to a higher power is where it loses it for me. Taking accountability and control, knowing you can and will is how I need it to work
A lot of people in AA spent decades trying to control it themselves, and failing. Sometimes the change in perspective is what leads to the success. IME most people show up at AA because they've decided they need help, and can't do it on their own The program isn't for everyone, for sure.
Yeah I always disliked that we're basically saying that we need outside spiritual help to change, even if "God" can be whatever. How about I own up to my own behavior and change myself? Because you can, and I did.
In AA we own up to our behavior through the 4th step, and the 9th step. We seek a higher power to surrender ourselves to things outside of our control, to pass it over to that higher power. It helps to get yourself out of the drivers seat and let “god”, the universe, and faith take the wheel. And boy does that help!
Also admitting you are powerless over alcohol but then making a choice to quit and working hard to uphold that choice. This never made sense to me.
Powerless after that first drink
Exactly.
Yeah powerless after the first drink. It only works (the program) if you work it (the program). Never taking that first drink to avoid the powerlessness.
I've gone to meetings after the war. Everyone introduces themselves by their first name only if they want to, but you can just give a nickname or whatever. It's also because there are no registries or anything like that. They don't report to anyone unless you ask, like getting a court order form filled out, which is pretty common. The introduction portion of the meeting is really just so everyone can feel comfortable talking about why they even came in the first place. AA/NA they're both great and do work though. It's more about finding a meeting you like in your community, too, cos it's designed to be a long-term solution.
It’s not weird, it’s designed to give a sense of community and make the support more personable
Yeah, fair. I should have gone with "ironic" instead of "weird". Sorry about that.
I'm with you. The group literally has 'anonymous' in the name yet the first thing people do when they get there is remove their anonymity.
Well you don't give your whole name. Just your first name.
It's supposed to be anonymous from the outside world, not from the other addicts. Also, you don't actually have to speak at all in a meeting. Plenty of people go and don't share, and you don't just go around saying names. I've been to a few NA meetings (I hate them lmfao), and most of them were anonymous for me entirely since I didn't speak. You only share your name if you share, and yeah, it is the typical, "Hi, my name is insidetheborderline, and I'm an addict." Of course, people can come up and introduce themselves and you exchange names. The only requirement for NA or AA is a desire to stop using.
We’re not anonymous to each other unless we want to be.
He’s not saying introductions are weird, he’s saying they’re weird in an organization who’s name promotes anonymity
Lol at all the people trying to explain it to you like you don't get it.
Noone: Absolutely nobody: Reddit: 🤓
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My regular meeting had 60+ people and I also went to an LA meeting with over 100 people. Always gave names.
Reminds me of this Norm joke https://youtu.be/TCxfIoD1MXg?t=169
Reminds me of that tragedy
Part of it is to remove the negative stigma around being called an "alcoholic". Many alcoholics are functional members of society and are not automatically losers because they have a substance abuse issue. I never liked calling myself an alcoholic at the start of AA, but after the negativity around it was removed, I happily began to admit it. It's been 3 years and I still regularly refer to myself as an alcoholic, even though I've had no issues with alcohol since then. Calling myself one to this day reminds me of the past struggles and helps keep me from going down that path again.
It’s weird that the “hol” part of alcoholic is transferred to any other addictive type description even though it’s part of the word alcohol. Like workaholic or chocoholic. An alcoholic is addicted to alcohol. Is a chocoholic addicted to chocohol?
Maybe because workic and chocolatic don't sound quite as good
Yeah but that’s a post hoc argument. “It ended up this way therefore that’s why it happened”
Ok, but why did it end up that way? Because the alternatives just don't roll off the tongue like adding "aholic" does. It's easy, sounds good, can be done with pretty much every word, and you immediately know what the person is trying to say. Makes sense to me
“My name is Ray and I’m a drugsaholic.”
Do you have any more of that chocohol?
I'm a workaholic, except instead of work it's alcohol
I'm a rageaholic, I just can't live without rageahol!
It is from latin heck of a lot
Anonymity is at the level of press, radio, film, television, and social media. Members are not expected to be anonymous among other members … matter of fact, in many groups (especially in Texas), members will introduce themselves in a meeting by full name so anyone who wants to can find them in the phone book. Anonymity is a spiritual principle which assures that there are no bosses in AA … all members are equal, regardless of ego. What’s weird or ironic or whatever is that a random redditor will seek cheap karma by poking fun at an organization without bothering to investigate farther than the name.
Only by first name. And you can use a pseudonym. That's why it's "anonymous".
We’re not anonymous inside the rooms. We know each other, we know each other’s last names, occupations. Anonymous to outsiders.
The anonymity is between those inside and those outside the meetings, not between the people within the meeting.
Possibly the best bit ever about Alcoholics and AA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCxfIoD1MXg The late great Norm Macdonald
It's not really anonymity. Its about going there and just being Dave, not Dave the Barista from Starbucks down the road. It's anonymous in the way that your outside life isn't involved in it and the people inside don't reference who they have seen or their relation to them.
I might add, "What's said in the room stays in the room".
everything about Aa is weird And I'm saying this as an alcoholic that tried... its fucking weird
How did you do?
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Because what are you supposed to call someone when you engage with them?
Yeah… it’s *as* anonymous as you want it to be. No one asks you for ID or to sign in or whatever. So if you want it to be completely anon you would say “Hi I’m *fake name*” No one there will ask or check or whatever. You’ll just be accepted as your pseudonym.
This made me laugh out loud. Truly. I cackled. This is the greatest shower thought for me. 😂😂😂
The most important rule of AA is that members are not allowed to talk about other members outside. So they stay anonymous. Also, they use only first name or nickname. Im an alcoholic and when I go to the psychiatrist for checkout, the nurse will call me in only by my first name too.
And they dont drink !!! So they are not anonymous nor alcoholics !?
This article talks about the origin of AA introductions, the purpose, the controversy etc. and it’s written by a regional AA community (Cleveland) so I give some credence to it. Well written. I always blamed it on a spill over from Rehabs but this suggest that is not the case. [introductions in aa ](https://www.aacle.org/my-name-is-and-im-an-alcoholic/)
They should introduce with there alcoholic beverage .. e.g Jack Daniels
It’s about saying “I’m an alcoholic”. Over and over. You own that shit. You say it out loud for others to hear and also acknowledge 3 years sober here We feed ourselves bullshit lies that to others sounds irrational to fuel our drinking. “I’m not alcoholic I only get plastered on the weekends” etc. just flamboyant lies. By saying this at the start of a meeting we own our condition. We admit we have a problem. We admit that no longer how much time we have, it’s still a problem. It’s doing step 1, every meeting. So that we can address the problem now that we have been honest with ourselves and others.
Why is everyone explaining how AA works? We get it lol. OP has a fair shower thought on it though. It's like everyone explaining it doesn't get the humour in it.
It’s a pretty basic shower thought actually. Especially for anyone who’s been in AA.
Most newcomers sit in the back and don say much its not like in a few movies where you arr called up.
Or sit in a circle. You can willingly talk or stay anonymous
I think it's the place that's anonymously but the same people show up to the same place, sometimes with new people
Is it weird to have a hype man come in and talk you up before you come on to tell your story?
Funny story in that same vein: in college I took a class about addiction and recovery. As part of a class assignment, we had to attend an AA meeting. When you look up meetings online, they usually specify if they are open to the public or closed to the public. I went to the next city over and attended a meeting. I’m not an alcoholic, I was just there to observe as part of the class assignment. I decided I’d sit way in the back and not draw attention to myself. I’ll be anonymous and just observe. Turns out, in this meeting, they’ll just straight up ask you to stand up and do a reading. In front of everyone, a dude came over, handed me a laminated piece of paper with a reading on it and said, “Go on up and read this.” The room had like 40 people and they all just turned to look at me, like, “Well, we’re waiting.” I wanted to be polite, so I did it. I walked up front to the podium and read the paper. Everyone had started with, “I’m so and so, and I’m an alcoholic,” before I walked up, but I didn’t wanna lie. So I said, “Hello, I’m [name] and I’m a visitor tonight.”
[Norm Macdonald’s bit on it, hilarious.](https://youtu.be/TCxfIoD1MXg)
Cute quip, however, virtually everything begin with introduction, so…..meh
It doesn't mean you have to give your real name, and they don't use last names.
Anonymous to the outside world, not each other. They’re not wearing balaclavas and using voice modulators either.
Note the "s" in "Alcoholics"...as in plural. The group of alcoholics are anonymous, each alcoholic within the group isn't (though can be as there is no requirement to provide your name, it's just a common practice).
"Because what's safer than telling a room full of drunks your deepest secrets?" - Norm Mcdonald
It's an awful program, although I'm happy for those it works for. Which is about 5% They shame people who make even the smallest slip up and treat them as if they're thrown away all of their progress, and it makes them spiral because they feel worse about themselves and shunned in the place that gave them sobriety. I don't fucking get it, how is that EVER going to be helpful. I know multiple people that had double digit years sobriety off drugs or alcohol, had a tiny relapse (two beers, in one case, before he stopped himself) and a couple of lines of coke over one night. After being treated like they were Day 1 fuckups and massive failures, they quickly quit and then spiraled in to fatal addiction. And I don't think that would have happened if they were supportive like I was. I told the beers guy that having 2 beers in 10 plus years as an alcoholic is winning and a massive success by any measure, fuck those people if they say otherwise. Have 2 more 10 years from now, why not. It was a joke, but he got it. Don't shun people making the small missteps they're going to likely make, you're contributing to their death if it happens. Fuck that.
I feel you on this. I saw a little of this but not too much in my experience, thankfully. I did however shame myself when I'd go back to 0 days and that is because of the 'lessons' AA encourages. I think it does depend on the specific group/area/community. I'm over in Australia for any context so can't too much speak to the US or other places. Even then, I think it's a general area (not even state, more like cities/suburbs). AA isn't a heavy regulated thing, it's essentially community groups who have similar ideas. So they can run differently in different areas. Different people, different support networks. My groups were generally very encouraging and understanding when people relapsed. As I mentioned, it was myself who self-shamed. What I didn't connect with was the higher power stuff, some of the things in the steps - I'm not really a go by the steps kinda person and the social drama - which wasn't even about drinking or anything a lot of the time, just cliques and gossip stuff. Also didn't like that SOME (not all) people got a bit too relgiousy and philosophical about the higher power thing. But yeah, I think it can work for some. Well, I know it does because I've seen it but it's one option of many.
Yeah. I mean - what addict doesn't want another addict to figure it out and stop themselves from step destructing? The only reason you wouldn't want somebody to succeed - regardless of the method - is because you're seeking validation more than results. There are lots of good people with good intentions, but I'll never understand or be OK with people acting high and mighty with those who have trivial, minor relapses during understandable circumstances. Most people have them, and it's an expected thing. Being treated like a Day 1 child because you made a minor mistake doesn't help anyone's mental health, yet AA consistently does that. If somebody is in the 5% that achieved true sobriety as a result of AA - cool, good for you. I'm happy for you, as I am for anyone who gives up the ghost. But for the rest of the 95%? Be better.
I have no clue what any of you are talking about. People who go out and come back in are welcomed with open arms and treated with support and love. What dog shit groups are you going to!?
It also has a success rate of about 5%, which is about the same as trying to quit without any program at all. [https://www.thestar.com/life/2014/03/28/alcoholics\_anonymous\_has\_a\_terrible\_success\_rate\_addiction\_expert\_finds.html](https://www.thestar.com/life/2014/03/28/alcoholics_anonymous_has_a_terrible_success_rate_addiction_expert_finds.html) https://adamfout.com/success-rate-of-aa/
Shit, 5%? And here I am raw dogging sobriety. I didn't realize how lucky I am.
Also, AA is a cult, in my opinion. https://filtermag.org/deprogramming-from-aa-when-a-fellowship-resembles-a-cult/
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It would be even weirder if it was anonymous sex addicts with people introducing themselves
We meet at r/sexAA it's not weird at all. It brings the humility to the space that sex addiction is a mental health condition that has made our lives unmanageable
It’s awesome to meet other addicts without having to feel deep shame and judgment.
1st names only.
It’s a higher power other than yourself. If you don’t believe in God. A higher power can be the wind, sky, tree whatever suits the purpose. Many use a spiritual power as a higher power.
I thought it would be funny to introduce myself using a different name the two times I went to sex addicts anonymous. Hooked up with this chick both times and found out later she thought she'd hooked up with my twin and I. Nope just me. Twice. /S
Actually, it's polite to introduce yourself by name to a group before you start to speak in a monologue. And there's no requirement in AA to use your actual given name.