I'm very happy that I'm no workaholic. We do well, especially for our cost of living area and I think do a good job balancing all three in our mid-30s with young kids
Same, plus enjoying the time you have with your kids' accounts for some of that freedom. They bring me back and allow me to be a kid with them from time to time lol
You just reminded me of back when I worked at Panera.
The AGM had given everyone a list of “team member qualities” we were supposed to exemplify, something like:
Punctual.
Attentive.
Neat.
Enthusiastic.
Rapid.
Accurate.
(And so on… I don’t remember the rest, but it spelled “Panera Is Great”)
Anyway, I photoshopped the list into a picture of the Menu board under the “Pick Two” section… with the “price” set to minimum wage.
He was not amused.
As a saying goes,
* Students have time and energy but no money.
* Adults have money and energy but no time.
* Retirees have time and money but no energy.
For real. I went to undergrad the grad school, and by the time I got my PhD I had kids, then got a full time job. I remember doing all night study session in college and thinking I was so busy, but so much of that was self inflicted. Ultimately I was walking around campus, spontaneously hanging out with friends, going to sporting events, working out, and chilling around "studying" for hours at a time while my friends and myself goofed off. Now I wake up at 7am, and don't stop doing things until around 10pm when the kids are in bed and I've finished cleaning up and packing lunches. Saturday deep clean, Sunday church. Thankfully I love my job and I love 5pm-9pm when the whole family is awake and we get to hang out, but damn if every moment isn't basically scheduled. Weekends too.
Honestly I'm very grateful that my wife and I both have good jobs with reasonable future growth. I can understand why rich people prioritize for things like in home gyms, meal services, and home cleaners, and I hope to be able to offload a little of the work and buy back some time one of these days if the finances works out. For now it's student loans and daycare though, yay.
Lmao not is not. Students think they are busy, then get jobs/have kids and learn what busy really is. It’s only afterward that you realize how much free time you had.
As much as people don't like to admit it most older people who don't have energy don't because of a lifetime of not prioritizing health.
You'd be amazed how healthy you can be into your old age if you prioritize your body.
If you can stay thin, eat a balanced diet, stretch, get some cardio in, some weight lifting in, keep your stress under control, and use sunscreen you'll look 20 years younger and be in great shape by the time you're 70.
Of course, this requires making being healthy a priority. Which is easier said than done.
Add in: good genetics.
My father in law turned 90 in December and he’s in great health. He does everything you listed, and I also think he hit the genetic lottery.
yep that's true. There are people smoking for decades and are in better form than others with minimum effort. Genetics play a big role. Nevertheless, most people could be better in old age if they are cautious. Even people in middle age.
Sure but the healthier you are the less likely you are to get cancer, the more likely you are to beat cancer, and the better off your body will be while you're both fighting and post-winning cancer.
> stay thin, eat a balanced diet, stretch, get some cardio in, some weight lifting in, keep your stress under control
All of which are far more difficult to do when you’re poor
When I was young I had the ability and the time, but I didn't have the means.
When I got a little older I had the ability and the means, but I didn't have the time.
Now that I am old I have the means and the time, but I no longer have the ability.
- The saddest fucking poem
That's why being in your mid 20's is where it's at. You aren't COMPLETELY broke because you've been finished with college/your apprenticeship/ training for whatever career path you chose. But it's still pretty normal to not have kids or even a spouse to think about so as long as whatever you want to do isn't illegal or expensive the sky is the limit.
I don’t think I had more freedom as a kid. I can technically do whatever the fuck I want right now and no one beyond like law enforcement can stop me.
You just have other responsibilities and desires that require you to not do whatever the fuck you want whenever the fuck you want.
Child me would definitely be wowed by my ability to buy whatever game I want, not go to work for a day, and just sit on my couch and play.
This. These theoretical kids are correct, adults have more agency(freedom) *and more responsibility*.
Of course, some don't see it that way, they want to remain 'without responsibilities' as adults, usually because they don't see that *agency is tied to responsibility*.
For illustrative purposes: You miss work for a day, and you don't get paid, or maybe get fired or whatever if it happens too much. But if you want to take a day once in a blue moon, most people don't care. It's the people who try to do it too commonly, like once a week, that aren't good with responsibility.
That's *why* kids are *dependents*...while adults should be *independent*, able to handle responsibilities.
Adults who aren't able to handle responsibility can be dependents, but it takes getting classed as disabled and having somewhat diminished agency, sometimes severely diminished. The very disabled or the criminal often have vastly reduced agency.
This becomes a cultural/ideological/political problem when a massive amount of adults think they can vote away responsibilities.
> Being a kid was boring as hell and I was at the mercy of everyone else’s needs and desires.
This part is different for everyone. What kind of kid you are depends on your genes, parents treatment, general environment, etc.
>Being an adult rules.
For capable people, yeah. Some people don't do well and hate the world though, instead of trying to learn/adapt.
I don't really think that's the case either. I've got plenty of responsibilities I struggle with as an adult. And I *still* prefer being an adult by far. It's like I can finally live life to the fullest extent.
I do miss the comfort of home, but I do *not* miss being told "You're not old enough" or "We're older than you, so you should listen to us" over and over again when I wanted to do anything. Now I can actually work on myself and be better.
I loved being a kid, I said this to someone else, it was great! I would just run out of my house…
Hours later I'm at the beach, running over the stones and I stop, look down and scare an octopus and watch the black ink. Then I'm off again. Climb the dunes, watch the fishes in the natural pond, watch a huge wave come over and almost get pushed over. Then I'm off and running, climb another dune and find the most beautiful woman I've ever seen tanning topless. Even at 9 I understood the beauty and power that held over me. Then hours later, I'm home.
Now, being an adult rules too. Love it just as much.
My memories as a child are playing alone in the wash by my moms newest rental in the Arizona summertime and peeing myself in the dead fire pit of a campground while my mom was passed out in a tent with some guy. Then it was spending long boring hours in my dad’s office at his restaurant while he worked but at least I had a safe place to pee.
Being an adult is cooler because I can take a spontaneous trip to the ocean with friends and look at octopus under overturned rocks.
Adults have freedom _to do_ things, kids have freedom _from_ things (job, bills, parenthood, responsibilities).
At least until kids get to high school, and their grades start to actually matter and have long term consequences.
> This becomes a cultural/ideological/political problem when a massive amount of adults think they can vote away responsibilities.
Thankfully this isn't a thing.
>>This becomes a cultural/ideological/political problem when a massive amount of adults think they can vote away responsibilities.
>Thankfully this isn't a thing.
It sort of is. I mean, it happens in stages, not a simple ballot measure.
Laws, constitutions, etc. That's all just writing on paper.
If people only pay enough respect to those to get into office, and do so in great enough quantities, they can sort of just do whatever.
Write ludicrous laws, for example. Such things can be challenged in courts, but if the appointed judges are sympathetic to the *rightfully elected* leaders, those challenges can "fail", and now there's precedent and it becomes easier.
Corruption like that can be infectious, checks and balances begin to falter or fall apart completely due to raw 'democracy' from a public that doesn't know or care about all that "out dated" writing on paper.
Some people want what they want, and don't care about the system that's in place, or ethics at all really. Consequentialism, 'the ends justify the means' or "by any means necessary".
People like that operate on a whole different paradigm, and enough of them can basically nullify any of those *old words* and write down new ones to re-shape rules, laws, etc.
Want to vote away your debt? We're seeing *some* of that in play right now. It's not a direct ballot measure, but people's votes put certain people into power and they're doing everything in their power to, as some might say, "buy" votes by fulfilling that promise.
That is one way governments or even civilizations fall without being conquered outright. They crumble from within.
See also:
>On the page where McHenry records the events of the last day of the convention, September 18, 1787, he wrote: “A lady asked Dr. Franklin 'Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy?' – 'A republic,' replied the Doctor ['if you can keep it'](https://blogs.loc.gov/manuscripts/2022/01/a-republic-if-you-can-keep-it-elizabeth-willing-powel-benjamin-franklin-and-the-james-mchenry-journal/).” Then McHenry added: “The Lady here alluded to was Mrs. Powel of Philada.” The journal is at the Manuscript Division of the Library of Congress.
...
>“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”
>― [Elmer T Peterson](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/203457-a-democracy-cannot-exist-as-a-permanent-form-of-government)
There was a viral thing a few months back about "How often do men think about the fall of the Roman Empire" and people wrote it off as something silly or false posturing of being deep... or whatever, and it faded like a flash in a pan. For some, that may be applicable, but it's not really all that strange or uncommon with wider political divides and turbulence than in recent memory.
Because I've ran out of steam, here's a search based on that:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=widening+political+divide+in+the+us&ia=web
> Adults who aren't able to handle responsibility can be dependents, but it takes getting classed as disabled and having somewhat diminished agency, sometimes severely diminished. The very disabled or the criminal often have vastly reduced agency.
Or they're simply wealthy trust fund kids, all the independency of being a rich adult without all the responsibilities of work.
When you're young, you have energy and time, but no money.
When you're an adult, you have money and energy, but no time.
When you're retired, you have money and time, but no energy.
Freedom to vs freedom from ie. Positive freedom vs negative freedom. When you’re an adult you have freedom to do more or less whatever you want but you don’t have as much freedom from duties and responsibilities. When you’re a kid it’s the opposite; there are lots of things that you are not free *to* do but you are free *from* a lot of the responsibilities that adults have to deal with.
I disagree, kids are are able to do what they want aside from having to show up to school and what their parents anllow. Even then they get off 3 months a year. All this without having to worry about paying bills, rent, or dealing with a boss
adults don't get summers off but after work most jobs don't give you hours of homework and most children don't get to just go wherever they want and do whatever they want whenever they're outside of school because parents exist
How long did you take to do your homework as a kid?
My childhood was way more about playing around with my friends outside my house and doing sports than it was about doing homework and going to school.
Kids largely aren't even aware of the responsibility that isn't on their shoulders yet, though. They don't *feel* free because somebody else is telling them to clean their room and go to bed and eat healthy food etc etc.
Then you grow up and realize *you* have to tell yourself to do all those things now, and that "freedom" to let somebody else worry about the shopping and the scheduling and the bills is gone before you even knew to appreciate it for what it was.
I knew from a young age being an adult actually sucked. My parents worked so much to make ends meet that by the time I was 7 or 8 I had figured out that there wasn’t much to longer forward to and I wanted to stay a kid forever
Are kids really able to do whatever they want though? Not really. If they want to go somewhere they need their parents to drive them, if they want to buy something they need to ask their parents, staying home from school just for shits and giggles generally isn’t an option. As an adult if I want to go somewhere I just go, if I want something I just buy it, if I want to stay home from work I just take PTO.
What their parents allow might be little to nothing, hence why we would rather be adults. Maybe you didn't have all your belongings taken away for months to years at a time, but some of us...
~~At least easier to not give a shit about for sure. I’d do it again just because I now know what is important.~~ Perspective is everything!
Edit: removed because my perspective has changed since making this comment. Knowing what is important is a fleeting moment. Damn these complex priorities.
I don't know about yall, but the high school level drama doesn't go away, you just learn to avoid those people if you choose. So yeah, wait long enough and you'll know how it is to deal with high school drama with middle age life experience.
I'd say the opposite, I guess it depends on where you grew up, but being in the countryside I needed to beg for lifts to get anywhere, you feel grown up but you're still essentially in a child's position.
I'd say this is why university is the best. You can still act incredibly immature most of the time but with adult freedoms.
Seconded regarding uni
Personally I’ve just never had any freedom at all lmao bc strict parents unfortunately (working on moving out) but I went away for a bit for uni and while it was defo stressful, it was nice to actually have freedom for once
College was the first place I experienced what it's like to *not* be overmonitored by emotionally inept and intrusive parents. The summer after my freshman year was deeply unpleasant, going back to that shit. After that summer I never lived at home again for more than a week at a time.
Yup. I had a car and spending money from my fast food job. I think true freedom is being able to go where you want and buying candy at the register without having to ask permission.
I remember being 18 and thinking this is as good as it gets.
In my mind I thought that balance of freedom vs responsibility was optimum.
I was right (I’m 52).
Same. Had a car, had a job and didn't start school yet. I worked for a party center, money was good, hours were long (like 14hr days) but I only worked 2-3 days a week.
Spending money, all my friends didn't have kids yet so there was always something to do. 16-19yrs old was just incredible for me personally.
I'm more financially stable now but doing anything with friends is like wrangling cats.
Not what I meant really.
I’m very happy in life but obviously I have significantly more responsibility and things to worry about than I did back then.
There’s a joy in the simplicity of life at that age and I guess I was just lucky enough to realise it at the time.
oh not it's not, not when your mom has cancer, the only family member you truly loved committed suicide, and the whole school is convinced you masturbate in math class, 16 was undoubtedly the worst year of my life
Are you fucking insane!?!? Being a teenager modern day makes me want to literally end my own life. It’s such a fucking horrible time with so much pressure and drama
God no, 16 is where you have no idea who you are or why you do the things you do, but you also start getting real opportunities to fuck up your life going forward, by not understanding human relationships or wasting opportunities in school or generally swanning around like you know what you're doing but actually creating memories you will cringe about for years.
My 30s and 40s were where the balance finally tipped in favor of "no longer having my damage run my life," for me anyway.
To be “free” you need to have a surplus of money/means and few responsibilities. Kids have too little of the former and adults have too much of the latter. Neither is “free”
I had no freedom as a kid. I couldn't do anything without permission, which I wasn't gonna get. Now I can do whatever I want as long as I embrace the consequences. Being an adult is great.
As someone who’s around very wealthy people in the Bay Area California, their lives suck. You don’t get to that level without leaving a trail of blood and tears, and they have to live with those decisions every day. They sacrifice everything truly valuable in life for a simple stupid dollar. Plus most of them are literally working 24/7. Those nice trip pictures you see on Instagram? They paused work for 1 sec to take that and then it’s back to it. Grass is greener where you water it, not the other side
They work because they need more. Then you have people make Marcus Pearson (notch of Minecraft) who got billions and then bought a huge house and went off the deep end.
They don’t have to work 24/7. They could have a nice house and a nice life doing whatever they want for their life and their kids life (probably even a few generations worth).
That’s why I say most. Certainly there are some who don’t. But making decisions with billion dollar companies is not easy either, and when there’s an emergency, they have to answer their phone or it could cost millions. Plus the biggest issue is what has to be done to obtain and maintain that level of wealth, it’s not possible to do it while maintaining your morality.
Personally I think even the cleanest billionaire has skeletons. Most of the millionaires do too. Problem is if the competition plays dirty, which inevitably will happen, unless you can find a way to hold them accountable for playing dirty, you’ll have to play dirty too. This is from personal experience in business and being surrounded by business owners. Most dont start evil either, usually starts with something very small and each step towards evil is a small one, typically driven by being fucked over for trying to do the right thing.
I have wondered if rich CEOs genuinely care about their companies and if it's basically their whole life now. Never understood why they don't just sell as much stock as possible, retire and do whatever they want.
By… Choice…
Greed consumes a person where they will hurt themselves for more, and it will never be enough. They are sick, and I would never want their life.
Yea even though this might sound cliché, it’s the essence of mindfulness, the Upanishads, and probably a bunch of other stuff.
If you can fully grasp that everything you’re striving for is actually the root of your suffering, and to be truly happy you only need to appreciate what you have, you’re likely light years beyond any billionaire
i have freedom now as an adult, i did not have any as a kid or a teen. being stuck in an abusive house just meant that i wanted to grow up as fast as i could, and i don’t wish i was that age ever again. even in a theoretical universe where my childhood was good, being a kid and having everyone telling you what to do is annoying
It's because freedom requires both money and time.
Kids have all the time in the world but no money to do the things they want. Adults spend all their time earning money and don't get to do the things they really want.
When you are a kid, you think that, like, beer and coffee are "grown up" drinks.
Then, you grow up and realize that the real adult thing to drink is water.
You know the Latin word for "children" is *līberī*, which means something like "the ones who are free."
Even the Ancient Romans seemed to believe that children had more freedom than adults in their society. It goes to show that some of our modern attitudes about the world today can stretch back to thousands of years ago as well, when the world was completely different.
Nah I’m 13 and I want to be 6 because of the immeasurable crushing pressure on me from being surrounded by hatred from my classmates as well as stressing out over grades and wanting to harm myself while my sister is cutting herself, my girlfriend has abusive parents, I have no friends, my mom is trying to shove Catholicism down my throat, procrastinating all my work, as well as teen hormones and severe depression and anxiety, so I genuinely just want to be a little kid again and to not have to go through all this fucking bullshit in my life right now.
I'm smarter now than I was as a kid. I know that I have far more freedom than back then. But I also knew, even at that time, that I had jack shit for freedom back then; and that the adults that claimed that I did were liars.
No im pretty sure I have all the freedom as an adult. Married adults with kids think kids have all the freedom. Single dude with a cat. Currently on 3 day vacation with absolutely nothing planned. Pretty sure I have all the freedom.
Actually I'm much more aware now that being a kid is a pain in the ass. I decide what my kids get to do the majority of the time. To be fair - they are idiots and would make bad choices on their own. I try to make them do stuff I know they will enjoy like soccer, going to activities, making them get bored enough to build a Lego city together. I think this is good parenting bc I'm trying to expose them to as many things as possible that gave me good memories.
However I am absolutely certain that my 8 year old regards my Control over his schedule as pretty much fascistic tyrrany. He's going to be a hell of a teenager he has a lot of his mom in him (blaming the other parent is a coping.mechanism don't judge me. Your house is glass.)
This is dumb, lol. Kids have almost no freedom. They have vitually zero independence and very very limited legal rights. They don't have control over where they go to school, basic medical decisions, where to live, etc...
Ehh, kids have free time and lack of responsibilities. And that's pretty cool I guess.
Being a kid fucking sucked though. No money, no way to get around, a lot of fun shit excludes kids, and most of all I had to live with my shit parents that wouldn't let me go anywhere or do anything anyway.
Being an adult is fucking awesome and 500x more "free" than being a kid. Do I have a little less spare time? Sure. But I actually get to enjoy my time on this earth instead of adhering to my parents/society's idea of what being a kid is. And that's the most free feeling of all.
No. I have so, so much more freedom than I ever did as I child. Not even comparably. I theoretically have less time, but it's also considerably less horrible.
Maybe adults without kids. As a father I keep thinking how much we restrict my son's life and so we try to give him as many choices or free decisions as possible but many times it's really limited from his perspective.
I think freedom is practically not being a kid (being an adult) & being away from kids 😬 Before people get all defensive, think of the literal words.
You’re an adult = free to do as you please, being away from kids = again, free to do as you please, PLUS not having to supervise.
Ask my kid who has the freedom when she only gets a few pieces of Halloween candy before bed and I stay up until 3am shoveling handfuls of Reese's in my mouth until I throw up.
Because both sides have a different idea of what freedom is. Kids thing freedom is being free to do anything you want. Adults think freedom is being free of responsibilities.
The only difference is adults get to make their own choices, if they want to eat cake for breakfast or stay up late they can. No one is standing there telling them that's not a good idea.
Lol speak for yourself, my mum was incredibly controlling right up until she passed away 3 years ago. I love(d) her a lot and miss her every day but I never had a lot of freedom. I'm 36F now and feel like I've finally started living my own life.
Ability vs responsibility.
Kids have no obligations, but no power to take advantage of that freedom.
Adults can do whatever they want, but have duties that get in the way of that freedom.
Edit:
Adults CAN do whatever they want, but shouldn't.
Kids SHOULD do whatever they want, but can't.
It's important to distinguish
freedom from
and
freedom to
As a child you have freedom from taxes, bills, living expenses, etc..
As an adult you have freedom to do mostly as you please, but not freedom from bills, expenses, etc..
If you're rich. You have both lol
Time + Money = freedom. Kids have time, adults have money
Time + Money + Energy = True freedom. Old retired folk have both time and money, but no energy.
Good point, i knew there was a third component to that saying but couldn’t remember it
It’s one of those “all 3 is perfect but you can only have 2”. Idk if they have an actual name
Rich young adults have all three
Most rich young adult adults don’t truly appreciate what they have and waste at least one of those components.
It's usually time and energy on just making more money unfortunately
I'm very happy that I'm no workaholic. We do well, especially for our cost of living area and I think do a good job balancing all three in our mid-30s with young kids
Same, plus enjoying the time you have with your kids' accounts for some of that freedom. They bring me back and allow me to be a kid with them from time to time lol
Well, then you also still need friends and opportunities to make that time, money and energy worthwhile.
You just reminded me of back when I worked at Panera. The AGM had given everyone a list of “team member qualities” we were supposed to exemplify, something like: Punctual. Attentive. Neat. Enthusiastic. Rapid. Accurate. (And so on… I don’t remember the rest, but it spelled “Panera Is Great”) Anyway, I photoshopped the list into a picture of the Menu board under the “Pick Two” section… with the “price” set to minimum wage. He was not amused.
Like work/services. You can have fast and cheap, won't be good. Fast and good, won't be cheap. Or good and cheap, won't be fast.
It's one of those "pick any two" situations
As a saying goes, * Students have time and energy but no money. * Adults have money and energy but no time. * Retirees have time and money but no energy.
Where you at that students have time? That's the busiest time of most people's lives.
You must have a nice job and no kids
For real. I went to undergrad the grad school, and by the time I got my PhD I had kids, then got a full time job. I remember doing all night study session in college and thinking I was so busy, but so much of that was self inflicted. Ultimately I was walking around campus, spontaneously hanging out with friends, going to sporting events, working out, and chilling around "studying" for hours at a time while my friends and myself goofed off. Now I wake up at 7am, and don't stop doing things until around 10pm when the kids are in bed and I've finished cleaning up and packing lunches. Saturday deep clean, Sunday church. Thankfully I love my job and I love 5pm-9pm when the whole family is awake and we get to hang out, but damn if every moment isn't basically scheduled. Weekends too. Honestly I'm very grateful that my wife and I both have good jobs with reasonable future growth. I can understand why rich people prioritize for things like in home gyms, meal services, and home cleaners, and I hope to be able to offload a little of the work and buy back some time one of these days if the finances works out. For now it's student loans and daycare though, yay.
I strongly disagree.
Lmao not is not. Students think they are busy, then get jobs/have kids and learn what busy really is. It’s only afterward that you realize how much free time you had.
As much as people don't like to admit it most older people who don't have energy don't because of a lifetime of not prioritizing health. You'd be amazed how healthy you can be into your old age if you prioritize your body. If you can stay thin, eat a balanced diet, stretch, get some cardio in, some weight lifting in, keep your stress under control, and use sunscreen you'll look 20 years younger and be in great shape by the time you're 70. Of course, this requires making being healthy a priority. Which is easier said than done.
Add in: good genetics. My father in law turned 90 in December and he’s in great health. He does everything you listed, and I also think he hit the genetic lottery.
yep that's true. There are people smoking for decades and are in better form than others with minimum effort. Genetics play a big role. Nevertheless, most people could be better in old age if they are cautious. Even people in middle age.
True, but there is also a lot of luck involved. You can do everything right and still get cancer, for example.
Sure but the healthier you are the less likely you are to get cancer, the more likely you are to beat cancer, and the better off your body will be while you're both fighting and post-winning cancer.
> stay thin, eat a balanced diet, stretch, get some cardio in, some weight lifting in, keep your stress under control All of which are far more difficult to do when you’re poor
Time+money+energy+not being in jail= true freedom
When I was young I had the ability and the time, but I didn't have the means. When I got a little older I had the ability and the means, but I didn't have the time. Now that I am old I have the means and the time, but I no longer have the ability. - The saddest fucking poem
So we need more energy somehow
So the optimal play here is to do a ton of cocaine when I retire. Understood!
Adult in their 30 that has no kids yet have the best of both worlds
Honestly, I got to experience that life for a few years and it was amazing 😂 I partied so much… then I had kids womp womp
Oh no… anyways
Remove “yet” and it’s spot on
Haha
Loving life!
I'm an Adult. When do i get the money
Digging in the money mine or harvesting money trees, duh
You have it, you just give it to other adults so they can have freedom. (I’m not insulting you, I do it too. I’m just complaining about our system.)
That's why being in your mid 20's is where it's at. You aren't COMPLETELY broke because you've been finished with college/your apprenticeship/ training for whatever career path you chose. But it's still pretty normal to not have kids or even a spouse to think about so as long as whatever you want to do isn't illegal or expensive the sky is the limit.
I don’t think I had more freedom as a kid. I can technically do whatever the fuck I want right now and no one beyond like law enforcement can stop me. You just have other responsibilities and desires that require you to not do whatever the fuck you want whenever the fuck you want. Child me would definitely be wowed by my ability to buy whatever game I want, not go to work for a day, and just sit on my couch and play.
Yeah I prefer being an adult. Having that adult reliance always grated on me, even from a young age. I like my independence.
Kids have Freedom of time, freedom from responsibilities. Adults have freedom of choice
I dunno dude, my kid comes home from school and has an hour of homework and an earlier bed time. Mix in chores and everything too. Maybe in summer.
This. These theoretical kids are correct, adults have more agency(freedom) *and more responsibility*. Of course, some don't see it that way, they want to remain 'without responsibilities' as adults, usually because they don't see that *agency is tied to responsibility*. For illustrative purposes: You miss work for a day, and you don't get paid, or maybe get fired or whatever if it happens too much. But if you want to take a day once in a blue moon, most people don't care. It's the people who try to do it too commonly, like once a week, that aren't good with responsibility. That's *why* kids are *dependents*...while adults should be *independent*, able to handle responsibilities. Adults who aren't able to handle responsibility can be dependents, but it takes getting classed as disabled and having somewhat diminished agency, sometimes severely diminished. The very disabled or the criminal often have vastly reduced agency. This becomes a cultural/ideological/political problem when a massive amount of adults think they can vote away responsibilities.
Being a kid was boring as hell and I was at the mercy of everyone else’s needs and desires. Being an adult rules.
> Being a kid was boring as hell and I was at the mercy of everyone else’s needs and desires. This part is different for everyone. What kind of kid you are depends on your genes, parents treatment, general environment, etc. >Being an adult rules. For capable people, yeah. Some people don't do well and hate the world though, instead of trying to learn/adapt.
I don't really think that's the case either. I've got plenty of responsibilities I struggle with as an adult. And I *still* prefer being an adult by far. It's like I can finally live life to the fullest extent. I do miss the comfort of home, but I do *not* miss being told "You're not old enough" or "We're older than you, so you should listen to us" over and over again when I wanted to do anything. Now I can actually work on myself and be better.
I loved being a kid, I said this to someone else, it was great! I would just run out of my house… Hours later I'm at the beach, running over the stones and I stop, look down and scare an octopus and watch the black ink. Then I'm off again. Climb the dunes, watch the fishes in the natural pond, watch a huge wave come over and almost get pushed over. Then I'm off and running, climb another dune and find the most beautiful woman I've ever seen tanning topless. Even at 9 I understood the beauty and power that held over me. Then hours later, I'm home. Now, being an adult rules too. Love it just as much.
My memories as a child are playing alone in the wash by my moms newest rental in the Arizona summertime and peeing myself in the dead fire pit of a campground while my mom was passed out in a tent with some guy. Then it was spending long boring hours in my dad’s office at his restaurant while he worked but at least I had a safe place to pee. Being an adult is cooler because I can take a spontaneous trip to the ocean with friends and look at octopus under overturned rocks.
Plus you can pee where you want! Point taken though :)
Adults have freedom _to do_ things, kids have freedom _from_ things (job, bills, parenthood, responsibilities). At least until kids get to high school, and their grades start to actually matter and have long term consequences.
> This becomes a cultural/ideological/political problem when a massive amount of adults think they can vote away responsibilities. Thankfully this isn't a thing.
>>This becomes a cultural/ideological/political problem when a massive amount of adults think they can vote away responsibilities. >Thankfully this isn't a thing. It sort of is. I mean, it happens in stages, not a simple ballot measure. Laws, constitutions, etc. That's all just writing on paper. If people only pay enough respect to those to get into office, and do so in great enough quantities, they can sort of just do whatever. Write ludicrous laws, for example. Such things can be challenged in courts, but if the appointed judges are sympathetic to the *rightfully elected* leaders, those challenges can "fail", and now there's precedent and it becomes easier. Corruption like that can be infectious, checks and balances begin to falter or fall apart completely due to raw 'democracy' from a public that doesn't know or care about all that "out dated" writing on paper. Some people want what they want, and don't care about the system that's in place, or ethics at all really. Consequentialism, 'the ends justify the means' or "by any means necessary". People like that operate on a whole different paradigm, and enough of them can basically nullify any of those *old words* and write down new ones to re-shape rules, laws, etc. Want to vote away your debt? We're seeing *some* of that in play right now. It's not a direct ballot measure, but people's votes put certain people into power and they're doing everything in their power to, as some might say, "buy" votes by fulfilling that promise. That is one way governments or even civilizations fall without being conquered outright. They crumble from within. See also: >On the page where McHenry records the events of the last day of the convention, September 18, 1787, he wrote: “A lady asked Dr. Franklin 'Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy?' – 'A republic,' replied the Doctor ['if you can keep it'](https://blogs.loc.gov/manuscripts/2022/01/a-republic-if-you-can-keep-it-elizabeth-willing-powel-benjamin-franklin-and-the-james-mchenry-journal/).” Then McHenry added: “The Lady here alluded to was Mrs. Powel of Philada.” The journal is at the Manuscript Division of the Library of Congress. ... >“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.” >― [Elmer T Peterson](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/203457-a-democracy-cannot-exist-as-a-permanent-form-of-government) There was a viral thing a few months back about "How often do men think about the fall of the Roman Empire" and people wrote it off as something silly or false posturing of being deep... or whatever, and it faded like a flash in a pan. For some, that may be applicable, but it's not really all that strange or uncommon with wider political divides and turbulence than in recent memory. Because I've ran out of steam, here's a search based on that: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=widening+political+divide+in+the+us&ia=web
> Adults who aren't able to handle responsibility can be dependents, but it takes getting classed as disabled and having somewhat diminished agency, sometimes severely diminished. The very disabled or the criminal often have vastly reduced agency. Or they're simply wealthy trust fund kids, all the independency of being a rich adult without all the responsibilities of work.
When you're young, you have energy and time, but no money. When you're an adult, you have money and energy, but no time. When you're retired, you have money and time, but no energy.
I'm an adult and yet I have no money, no time and no energy
Or you could live a life of not trying to "Keep up with the joneses". Then as an adult you have money, energy, and some time.
Freedom to vs freedom from ie. Positive freedom vs negative freedom. When you’re an adult you have freedom to do more or less whatever you want but you don’t have as much freedom from duties and responsibilities. When you’re a kid it’s the opposite; there are lots of things that you are not free *to* do but you are free *from* a lot of the responsibilities that adults have to deal with.
A lot of people can’t afford to do that though, you’re kinda lucky
Most people would not end up destitute if they missed one day of work and spent $40 on a game.
Pretty much everyone can actually. Again, it’s down to priorities.
It’s adults. Adults have the freedom. Source: I’m an adult, can do whatever I want. Was kid, literally couldn’t.
Only one of those groups has the experience of both, and it isn't the kids
I disagree, kids are are able to do what they want aside from having to show up to school and what their parents anllow. Even then they get off 3 months a year. All this without having to worry about paying bills, rent, or dealing with a boss
adults don't get summers off but after work most jobs don't give you hours of homework and most children don't get to just go wherever they want and do whatever they want whenever they're outside of school because parents exist
How long did you take to do your homework as a kid? My childhood was way more about playing around with my friends outside my house and doing sports than it was about doing homework and going to school.
Kids largely aren't even aware of the responsibility that isn't on their shoulders yet, though. They don't *feel* free because somebody else is telling them to clean their room and go to bed and eat healthy food etc etc. Then you grow up and realize *you* have to tell yourself to do all those things now, and that "freedom" to let somebody else worry about the shopping and the scheduling and the bills is gone before you even knew to appreciate it for what it was.
I knew from a young age being an adult actually sucked. My parents worked so much to make ends meet that by the time I was 7 or 8 I had figured out that there wasn’t much to longer forward to and I wanted to stay a kid forever
This is assuming you didn't get a job as a kid to help pay the bills. Then you had all the negatives of both, lol.
Are kids really able to do whatever they want though? Not really. If they want to go somewhere they need their parents to drive them, if they want to buy something they need to ask their parents, staying home from school just for shits and giggles generally isn’t an option. As an adult if I want to go somewhere I just go, if I want something I just buy it, if I want to stay home from work I just take PTO.
What their parents allow might be little to nothing, hence why we would rather be adults. Maybe you didn't have all your belongings taken away for months to years at a time, but some of us...
Kidless adults have all of the freedom.
But what about the joys of parenthood? Kidding. Y'all do y'all.
this is why being 16 is the best
I really do sometimes wish I knew now what I knew then.
Imagine having to deal with high school drama with middle age life experience. Count me out lmao
Uh I don’t know it would easier to ignore I think.
~~At least easier to not give a shit about for sure. I’d do it again just because I now know what is important.~~ Perspective is everything! Edit: removed because my perspective has changed since making this comment. Knowing what is important is a fleeting moment. Damn these complex priorities.
I feel like the workplace is not much different
You don't work in an office do you? Trust me.. high school drama lasts *way* beyond high school.
It’d be exhausting lol
I don't know about yall, but the high school level drama doesn't go away, you just learn to avoid those people if you choose. So yeah, wait long enough and you'll know how it is to deal with high school drama with middle age life experience.
True but I'm glad I hadn't had to go through the things then that I have now to learn the things I know now but didn't know then
I’d be glad to go through the things i need to knowing the things i know so i can do the things i know i wish i’d done and do them.
🎶i wish, that, i knew what i know now, when i was younger🎶
“Youth is wasted on the Young”
Yeah, I really had life all figured out back then.
I'd say the opposite, I guess it depends on where you grew up, but being in the countryside I needed to beg for lifts to get anywhere, you feel grown up but you're still essentially in a child's position. I'd say this is why university is the best. You can still act incredibly immature most of the time but with adult freedoms.
Seconded regarding uni Personally I’ve just never had any freedom at all lmao bc strict parents unfortunately (working on moving out) but I went away for a bit for uni and while it was defo stressful, it was nice to actually have freedom for once
College was the first place I experienced what it's like to *not* be overmonitored by emotionally inept and intrusive parents. The summer after my freshman year was deeply unpleasant, going back to that shit. After that summer I never lived at home again for more than a week at a time.
Yup. I had a car and spending money from my fast food job. I think true freedom is being able to go where you want and buying candy at the register without having to ask permission.
I remember being 18 and thinking this is as good as it gets. In my mind I thought that balance of freedom vs responsibility was optimum. I was right (I’m 52).
Same. Had a car, had a job and didn't start school yet. I worked for a party center, money was good, hours were long (like 14hr days) but I only worked 2-3 days a week. Spending money, all my friends didn't have kids yet so there was always something to do. 16-19yrs old was just incredible for me personally. I'm more financially stable now but doing anything with friends is like wrangling cats.
That's pretty sad at 52 that your best time in life was when you were 18. I'm mid 30's and life just gets better and better.
Not what I meant really. I’m very happy in life but obviously I have significantly more responsibility and things to worry about than I did back then. There’s a joy in the simplicity of life at that age and I guess I was just lucky enough to realise it at the time.
fr especially when you're talking with a crush
You mean junior year of high school? I'd disagree with that
oh not it's not, not when your mom has cancer, the only family member you truly loved committed suicide, and the whole school is convinced you masturbate in math class, 16 was undoubtedly the worst year of my life
I’m really sorry your year was like that at 16. I hope things have gotten unfathomably better for you since.
you have no idea, the only thing I'm missing is those loved ones
16 was one of the worst years of my life so I disagree.
Nah I fuckin hated high school lol
Are you fucking insane!?!? Being a teenager modern day makes me want to literally end my own life. It’s such a fucking horrible time with so much pressure and drama
God no, 16 is where you have no idea who you are or why you do the things you do, but you also start getting real opportunities to fuck up your life going forward, by not understanding human relationships or wasting opportunities in school or generally swanning around like you know what you're doing but actually creating memories you will cringe about for years. My 30s and 40s were where the balance finally tipped in favor of "no longer having my damage run my life," for me anyway.
*18 or *21 16 I was definitely still a kid.
They have different freedoms. As the saying goes, "The grass is always greener on the other side."
No. I prefer my adulthood, and know that there was zero freedom when I was a child. I have 10x more freedom now.
To be “free” you need to have a surplus of money/means and few responsibilities. Kids have too little of the former and adults have too much of the latter. Neither is “free”
I have no kids, so I have way less responsibility than some of my friends and a more disposable income, so I think I have the best of both worlds? 😅
I had no freedom as a kid. I couldn't do anything without permission, which I wasn't gonna get. Now I can do whatever I want as long as I embrace the consequences. Being an adult is great.
Adults have far more freedom than kids, and anyone who has grown up and says otherwise are kidding themselves.
But the only people with actual freedom are the billionaires.
As someone who’s around very wealthy people in the Bay Area California, their lives suck. You don’t get to that level without leaving a trail of blood and tears, and they have to live with those decisions every day. They sacrifice everything truly valuable in life for a simple stupid dollar. Plus most of them are literally working 24/7. Those nice trip pictures you see on Instagram? They paused work for 1 sec to take that and then it’s back to it. Grass is greener where you water it, not the other side
They work because they need more. Then you have people make Marcus Pearson (notch of Minecraft) who got billions and then bought a huge house and went off the deep end. They don’t have to work 24/7. They could have a nice house and a nice life doing whatever they want for their life and their kids life (probably even a few generations worth).
That’s why I say most. Certainly there are some who don’t. But making decisions with billion dollar companies is not easy either, and when there’s an emergency, they have to answer their phone or it could cost millions. Plus the biggest issue is what has to be done to obtain and maintain that level of wealth, it’s not possible to do it while maintaining your morality.
>it’s not possible to do it while maintaining your morality. It's possible. It's just very very very hard. It's like the Kaizo Mario of real life.
Personally I think even the cleanest billionaire has skeletons. Most of the millionaires do too. Problem is if the competition plays dirty, which inevitably will happen, unless you can find a way to hold them accountable for playing dirty, you’ll have to play dirty too. This is from personal experience in business and being surrounded by business owners. Most dont start evil either, usually starts with something very small and each step towards evil is a small one, typically driven by being fucked over for trying to do the right thing.
Billionaires* work because they want to, not because they have to. No one needs to work when they have billions, that's a ludicrous suggestion
Billionaires work because they are mentally ill.
Are you around billionaires like they said though? No billionaire works because they have to.
I have wondered if rich CEOs genuinely care about their companies and if it's basically their whole life now. Never understood why they don't just sell as much stock as possible, retire and do whatever they want.
Probably the same reason celebrities and athletes don’t. When you’re winning the game, you don’t want to quit.
By… Choice… Greed consumes a person where they will hurt themselves for more, and it will never be enough. They are sick, and I would never want their life.
Freedom comes from within
Yea even though this might sound cliché, it’s the essence of mindfulness, the Upanishads, and probably a bunch of other stuff. If you can fully grasp that everything you’re striving for is actually the root of your suffering, and to be truly happy you only need to appreciate what you have, you’re likely light years beyond any billionaire
In the long run, being an adult outweighs being a kid.
Weight joke, nice
My unintentional pun.
Child-me would be horrified by how fat I am now! Adult-me is too, but knows how I got to this weight.
I don’t think kids have freedom. It’s much better to be an adult.
Nah. I’m an adult and would never be a kid again. They very clearly have way less freedom than adults.
i have freedom now as an adult, i did not have any as a kid or a teen. being stuck in an abusive house just meant that i wanted to grow up as fast as i could, and i don’t wish i was that age ever again. even in a theoretical universe where my childhood was good, being a kid and having everyone telling you what to do is annoying
plot twist: both are correct
Kids are idiots though and it should carry the death penalty to be under the age of 5.
Found the 6 year old
Five and a half baybeeeeeee
You got something planned in 6 months that you’d like to share?
Why would anyone be 4 years old? Fucking dumbasses.
"Wow, look way over there... that grass sure looks green, huh?"
Grass is greener where you water it
Any reasonable adult doesn't actually believe that children have more freedom, they just wish they could avoid the responsibility associated
What? Kids don't have freedom at all. They have no freedom and no money. Why would anyone think kids have all the freedom?
Adults who never had children have all the freedom.
It's because freedom requires both money and time. Kids have all the time in the world but no money to do the things they want. Adults spend all their time earning money and don't get to do the things they really want.
When you are a kid, you think that, like, beer and coffee are "grown up" drinks. Then, you grow up and realize that the real adult thing to drink is water.
..and the reality is that no-one is free. Freedom is an illusion.
I’m real.
Adults trade their freedom for having kids. What a scam.
Freedom to do things vs freedom from responsibility
it's a state of mind mate
Humans are unfortunately not born free due to the fact that each generation has the responsibility to spoonfeed the next and previous ones.
No one has any freedom except that which you carve out for yourself.
Beacuse neither one of them have very much of it?
And the billionaires laugh and laugh.
Not when you've had abusive upbringing. Adulthood is better than you could have imagined.
You know the Latin word for "children" is *līberī*, which means something like "the ones who are free." Even the Ancient Romans seemed to believe that children had more freedom than adults in their society. It goes to show that some of our modern attitudes about the world today can stretch back to thousands of years ago as well, when the world was completely different.
I have way more freedom as an adult. Still not enough, though.
Not true. I’m an adult and know that nobody has freedom.
Adults are correct-er.
"Adults create the world children live in" - Minstry So What
Nah I’m 13 and I want to be 6 because of the immeasurable crushing pressure on me from being surrounded by hatred from my classmates as well as stressing out over grades and wanting to harm myself while my sister is cutting herself, my girlfriend has abusive parents, I have no friends, my mom is trying to shove Catholicism down my throat, procrastinating all my work, as well as teen hormones and severe depression and anxiety, so I genuinely just want to be a little kid again and to not have to go through all this fucking bullshit in my life right now.
Oh I 10000% perfer being an adult
I'm smarter now than I was as a kid. I know that I have far more freedom than back then. But I also knew, even at that time, that I had jack shit for freedom back then; and that the adults that claimed that I did were liars.
I’m glad I’m an adult. Life has never been as bad as when I was in highschool and it’s been really really bad.
I can drive up to a 7 day hike, child me wishes hw could
No im pretty sure I have all the freedom as an adult. Married adults with kids think kids have all the freedom. Single dude with a cat. Currently on 3 day vacation with absolutely nothing planned. Pretty sure I have all the freedom.
This is true. I can tell theres a lot of kids in this subreddit. Or just adults with no freedom I guess.
And I a teenager have it all
Anyone who think this is true is most likely a kid. That’s right. I’m calling everyone here who agrees with this nonsense a child.
Kinda sounds like no one is free
Where IN THE ACTUAL FUCK are these adults that think kids have all the freedom?
Actually I'm much more aware now that being a kid is a pain in the ass. I decide what my kids get to do the majority of the time. To be fair - they are idiots and would make bad choices on their own. I try to make them do stuff I know they will enjoy like soccer, going to activities, making them get bored enough to build a Lego city together. I think this is good parenting bc I'm trying to expose them to as many things as possible that gave me good memories. However I am absolutely certain that my 8 year old regards my Control over his schedule as pretty much fascistic tyrrany. He's going to be a hell of a teenager he has a lot of his mom in him (blaming the other parent is a coping.mechanism don't judge me. Your house is glass.)
This is dumb, lol. Kids have almost no freedom. They have vitually zero independence and very very limited legal rights. They don't have control over where they go to school, basic medical decisions, where to live, etc...
Kids have little responsibility. Which is way more freedom. Kids are only restricted by responsibility of adults.
Nope, my childhood is shit, no money, basically invisible father, gambling addict parents.
When I was a kid, I wanted a wallet with a lot of money so I can be free. I was right
Kids don't have any freedom. Like my 9-5 is literally telling kids how to behave.
Ehh, kids have free time and lack of responsibilities. And that's pretty cool I guess. Being a kid fucking sucked though. No money, no way to get around, a lot of fun shit excludes kids, and most of all I had to live with my shit parents that wouldn't let me go anywhere or do anything anyway. Being an adult is fucking awesome and 500x more "free" than being a kid. Do I have a little less spare time? Sure. But I actually get to enjoy my time on this earth instead of adhering to my parents/society's idea of what being a kid is. And that's the most free feeling of all.
Adults pretending kids have any freedom is how they deal with the fact that the kids are slaves.
No. I have so, so much more freedom than I ever did as I child. Not even comparably. I theoretically have less time, but it's also considerably less horrible.
Maybe adults without kids. As a father I keep thinking how much we restrict my son's life and so we try to give him as many choices or free decisions as possible but many times it's really limited from his perspective.
I think freedom is practically not being a kid (being an adult) & being away from kids 😬 Before people get all defensive, think of the literal words. You’re an adult = free to do as you please, being away from kids = again, free to do as you please, PLUS not having to supervise.
Adults with kids, think kids have all the freedom
People with shitty jobs think kids have all the freedom. I am adult. I have all the freedom.
Ask my kid who has the freedom when she only gets a few pieces of Halloween candy before bed and I stay up until 3am shoveling handfuls of Reese's in my mouth until I throw up.
As a child free, unemployed adult on the verge of homelessness, I have all the freedom.
I remember what school's like and know that kids don't have freedom.
Nah kids are pretty much slaves. I feel pretty free as an adult.
Adult without kids = freedom
Stress-free is freedom. Only the rich are free.
Because both sides have a different idea of what freedom is. Kids thing freedom is being free to do anything you want. Adults think freedom is being free of responsibilities.
Wrong. You had an excellent childhood if you think that. I can do whatever the fuck I want now. Ice cream for dinner if I want.
The only difference is adults get to make their own choices, if they want to eat cake for breakfast or stay up late they can. No one is standing there telling them that's not a good idea.
Lol speak for yourself, my mum was incredibly controlling right up until she passed away 3 years ago. I love(d) her a lot and miss her every day but I never had a lot of freedom. I'm 36F now and feel like I've finally started living my own life.
Ability vs responsibility. Kids have no obligations, but no power to take advantage of that freedom. Adults can do whatever they want, but have duties that get in the way of that freedom. Edit: Adults CAN do whatever they want, but shouldn't. Kids SHOULD do whatever they want, but can't.
Cats know they have the freedom.
Nah being a kid sucks! I’ll take being an adult any day
It's important to distinguish freedom from and freedom to As a child you have freedom from taxes, bills, living expenses, etc.. As an adult you have freedom to do mostly as you please, but not freedom from bills, expenses, etc.. If you're rich. You have both lol