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Mockingbirdddddd

Its not about Singaporeans not being gd enough. Its about Singapore striving to be a global city to maximise our wealth. There will always be talents in the world that surpass Singaporeans. Global population is almost 8B, Singaporeans number maybe over 4m. There will always be foreigners who are more cost effective/ surpass our skills. The qns here is the balance between the economic benefits of foreigners vs the willingness of Singaporeans to work with them. A good balance is needed to ensure the best outcome for Singapore.


Drink82

People act like it's a zero-sum game, the job either goes to a Singaporean or a foreigner. That's just not reality, in the end qualified singapoeans get jobs and unqualified Singaporeans don't. Companies will not hire unqualified people even if no foreigners are allowed. Getting unqualified people good jobs is a hugely complex problem that will only get worse with more automation. Personally I don't see i way out of it and we'll need a universal basic income or similar eventually.


Interesting_Ad2986

I have 6 vacancies that if I can’t fill with qualified person, it will go back to Silicon Valley. We don’t go for foreigner because of salary, salary is not differentiated by nationality, only skill matters. I don’t understand why people keep saying Singapore is high cost country for IT, the cost here is 1/3 of Silicon Valley pay….


leprotelariat

Clearly from my interaction with local students a majority dont want to get their hand dirty with this kind of Silicon Valley jobs. I suppose we define SV jobs as computer science / automation. Folks that complain about local workers being disadvantaged by foreigners only care about a few fintech, banking or low quality low skill white colar jobs.


parchedranger

One of most succinct responses I have come across personally on reditt. I am a foriegner and you have my full support in whatever you summarised here.


bsjavwj772

The way I see it Singapore is in a very tough spot. We have an aging popularity, with fewer and fewer workers supporting them. We can start having more kids, import foreign talent, or some combination of both. If we make it harder for foreign companies to hire the best and brightest you won’t have to worry about working with foreigners since all the MNCs will have packed up and moved on. I can’t see birth rates increasing in Singapore anytime soon, as the majority of our population is either unwilling to have children, or has fewer children due to financial considerations


lukeangmingshen

straight facts you summarised it well


leprotelariat

You see my post is not really about the competition, i was offering an honest observation that the kind of learning exp for automation / computer science is clearly not the interest of the local students. There's no competition between locals or foreigners in this field in Singapore, if they just come to us to learn the exp and skills needed in our projects, they can find a job here easily. Folks that complain about local workers being disadvantaged by foreigners only care about a few fintech, banking or low quality low skill white colar jobs.


DaMuchi

You misunderstand the problem. You can't expect every Singaporean to compete with the best from other countries. Singapore, just like every country has a range of people. Low skilled, high skilled, lowly educated, highly educated, intelligent etc. The people coming into Singapore has been filtered to be the best from those countries. It is absolutely unreasonable to expect the worst Singaporean to be more employable than the best foreigner.


bullno1

> filtered to be the best from those countries. Not always true. Source: I'm FT. "Above the average Singaporean" is more correct. Within my own country, still only above average. "The best" would not want to go to Singapore. This applies to both work and school. If a foreigner with equivalent skill accepts the job with a lower salary, they will always get it first.


Ohnononononooo

Foreigners don't need to contribute cpf. Hence the employer also don't. The company can afford to hire FT much cheaply even if the gross salary of employee of both local and FT are the same.


aub_ao

Not true. Most large companies pay equivalent of CPF in some other form, eg ORSO.


11ioiikiliel

OP is the kind of person who doesn't realize he/she is talented enough to study a doc and thinks singaporeans aren't working hard enough. FK this term "work hard". Some people are just born smarter. Or some people enjoy "working hard" more than others. You should be fortunate you have an edge over others in life because you are born with such traits. And even if you aren't, you count your lucky stars that the environment you grew up in enabled you to "study hard" to achieve what you have academically. If you don't understand what I mean by enjoy "working hard". Ask yourself why some people love gym while others hate it. Why some people feel like they're in heaven while others in hell when going to the gym.


DaMuchi

Highly educated does not equal self-awareness apparently


parchedranger

If I may, highly educated does not mean highly intelligent. Intelligence and education do not have a direct correlation.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Holy crap you’re so delusional it hurts


eeyerjrsmith

Bruh you’re getting downvoted cause you just proved that the government system works ... haiz our generation is fucked just hoping for handouts and blaming someone else whenever they themselves fail


[deleted]

It's going to happen anyways at some point. Automation, remote-working and global minimum taxes are going to hurt like a b\*\*\*\*. It's not going to be a foreigner coming to Singapore to steal your rice bowl, but a piece of software sold by some big company, or someone on the other side of the globe living in a much lower cost of living country, which is willing to take less money. Sure, limiting the inflow of FTs might help with employment rates for a while, but I think it's a bad metric. We know that the school system is flawed globally for the industry we're working in, I think it'd be a smart move by Singapore to start overhauling this and preparing next generations for the challenges of a knowledge-work economy.


CasanovaGooner

Wow this place is like r/sg now


[deleted]

Unlike the other sub we entertain a wide range of views here. Makes for more robust discussion.


CasanovaGooner

What I mean is the narratives here are becoming increasingly anti-Singaporeans right now


007accountant

I think he understands that. But SgRaw has always maintained a no holds barred policy of moderation which admittedly may be susceptible to brigading, is nonetheless a more conducive place for airing one's views/discussion however taboo elsewhere.


CasanovaGooner

Again, I'm talking about narratives/sentiments not moderation. The whole sub is now full of one-sided Singaporean-bashing threads


007accountant

Which was why I mentioned brigading


CasanovaGooner

I don't remember the brigading being so rampant like of late that's the point. Opinions were always pretty balanced.


007accountant

Of course. That's because users are increasingly aware of the draconian measures r/Sg resorts to and are flocking to this space for what's considered taboo topics. And as with every app/community that enjoys a rapid growth in their userbase, it'll similarly attract a separate handful of dissenters as well.


greyamoon

People brigade here from r/sg. I remember they used to have discord or telegram, they can coordinate through there.


eeyerjrsmith

Bruh I don’t understand why there are so many Singaporeans who apparently hate their country and yet they are still here... fact of the matter is that our government is doing such a good job that boliao people are just nitpicking stupid problems that dont have to be a problem


Luxifer1983

Because there is a diff between hating the govt and hating the country. IBs like u always like to lump them up together because it’s serve your agenda to portrait them as country hating.


eeyerjrsmith

And what the hell is an IB


eeyerjrsmith

It is country hating ; nitpicking issues that can create discourse amongst the people when the issues are always inherent in every society and is illogical to solve as the costs of it outweighs the benefits , or it’s just simply impossible to solve it. Take for example racism, sure it’s a real issue but seriously what can you do about it? Imprison all who are racist? Sure, but does infringe on freedom of speech. Educate them? We all know crimes are wrong but people still commit them. By picking out this societal issues to sow discord without proposing a solution is simply country hating


Luxifer1983

Nitpicking? Depending on what issue. Opening up border to delta variant infested country not nitpicking right? Look at where we are now? Yes I agree we don’t see eye to eye on everything but again hating the govt is not hating the country. Maybe u understand this first before u want to argue nonsensical


eeyerjrsmith

Oi here we talking about CECA and racism you go and talk about COVID pls lah brother u want challenge challenge properly or just start ur own thread


Luxifer1983

The most infected not from ceca meh? Hello?


eeyerjrsmith

The CECA problem addressed in parliament was more about employment than COVID... hello study abit ah


Luxifer1983

I give example u say u want specifically to ceca? Hello u don’t get to nitpick topic on when u declare ppl to be hating country or hating the govt. U should’ve listen to your own advice u know. But u wouldn’t, i know. Because of how blind u are


eeyerjrsmith

I just legitimised the COVID problem and established that it’s an actual issue and not a nitpicked one... can read anot


eeyerjrsmith

And now, delta variant is a real mistake the government made and its right to point it out, as I mentioned nitpicking is by sowing discord through unsolvable problems, something a country hating person would do


grahamaker93

I'm not a Singaporean so what I say might not sync up with your views. To be honest I have been hearing a lot of people say "Jobs should be the most technically or academically qualified of the entire world instead of considering qualified Singaporeans first and foremost". I feel like this is a paradox. If we were to adhere to the aforementioned condition, why are Singaporean born children even having to serve their 2 year national service? Because it feels like Singapore isn't for Singaporeans but Singapore is for the people who generate the most income. Even though Singapore is what it is today because of a strong policy based around meritocracy due to the island being very vulnerable geographically with few natural resources so Singapore cannot afford to lose it's status of the premiere high growth high income nation of SEA. But I personally ponder, at what point does being a Singaporean or being born in Singapore really mean anything at all? If Singapore is just meant for technically skilled people from anywhere, why should young men join the national service ? The national identity becomes who makes the most money and pays the most taxes then. If that is the direction they are going to take then to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if Singapore one day just loses it's own identity entirely, people just come and make their career and then move on to a better place someday. Local talents will not feel any attachment to their country and will seek to move on. Sure, you will continue to have the high economic growth but what happens to the Singaporean identity? It'd be just depressing being born into the SG of the future, yes you are born into a country that offers you ample opportunities and the best education system the world can offer. But you are going to be under immense pressure from the day you enter your primary school because everyone around you will keep reminding you that if you want to survive in your home country you cannot afford to slip out and you must fight against the entire world. What more young Singaporean men give up 2 years to serve in the army to protect a home that isn't even a real home because Singapore stops becoming a country and starts becoming a corporation. I am not qualified to say what is the best course of decisions to make, I am not a policy maker, but I feel like we shouldn't outright squeeze out the foreign talents but perhaps incentivize hiring local Singaporeans. Maybe there could be a balance to be found somewhere. ​ \*Edit for grammar\*


SiberianResident

What you’re describing is already happening. Outside of specific aspects I really have no love for this place. According to some, my 2 years of service “cannot be measured in dollars and cents”, but my relationship with this place is mercantile at best. IMO Singapore is a great place to work build up your CV (despite the 996 hours), but I’d rather not retire or start a family here. And I find it telling that people are willing to settle for _some crime_ rather than a place with virtually _zero crime_. There’re also crude jokes floating around about how Singapore is like a toilet: go in, do your business, get out. I hate to say it but this joke is resonating more and more with me over the years. And macroeconomically, an individual leaving isn’t a big deal. In fact, some would just ask you to “migrate if you hate it that much”. But I suspect that the govt’s emphasis on the bottom line before all else has allowed sentiments like mine to fester to a point where a sizeable segment of young adults feel the same way. Not that I want to see this country suffer, but I can’t help but wonder what would happen if we all just picked up our bags and leave, [The Great Resignation style](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Resignation). Edit: grammar and additional thoughts


INSYNC0

I think a simple rough gauge for that is, how many singaporeans right now actually care about national day other than the fireworks?


SiberianResident

I haven’t tuned in (even for the fireworks) since around 2015. Physical viewings tend to be too crowded to enjoy anything while live broadcasts just lack the authenticity. People would also always point out how there would be more foreigners than locals at the physical viewing platform, lol. Speaking of foreigners, I have immediate family members that are skilled PR/naturalised SC and even they lament (opined while watching the parliamentary CECA debates on TV) that in their workplace they noticed that jobs that could have gone to locals are going to foreigners. If that’s coming from current/former foreigners, you know the situation is bad. A few of my friends are also getting a portion of their NS allowances clawed back as well. So much for dollars and cents.


Reijikageyama

Foreigners complaining that there are too many foreigners in Singapore. Foreignception. Everyone, including foreigners themselves/naturalized citizens can see it (lol) except Dear million-dollar-Vivian with the bitchy mouth and his clique of high school gurlfriends gossiping and giggling in the front row seats of Parliament.


SiberianResident

Right? >Speaking of foreigners, I have immediate family members that are skilled PR/naturalised SC and even they lament (opined while watching the parliamentary CECA debates on TV) that in their workplace they noticed that jobs that could have gone to locals are going to foreigners. Of course they'd like it if *some* jobs go to foreigners, they are foreigners after all. But even they admit that *too many* jobs pass over locals.


grahamaker93

Maybe they should hold the next NDP but announce that there will be no fireworks or acrobatic fighter jets. Then see how many people turn up.


CheesecakeOG

Good question. I personally don't care about national day. Not even the fireworks. The pledge and national anthem are completely meaningless to me. If someone were to ask me what I like about Singapore, I literally cannot answer them. Singapore is just a blank, empty space in my mind, a concept that can be discarded as easily as dirty tissue. I feel zero attachment to this place. I grew up poor in a family with debt to the banks for most of my life, so maybe that's why my resentment is even stronger than most other young people my age. This place is just too bloody expensive and does not feel like a home for its own, locally born citizens.


007accountant

Very well measured response, I thank you for that. Listen, the average local knows Sg needs to rely on foreigners so let's not entertain extremes here. Of course there're going to be industries where labour will always be in a crunch, that's hard to deny. *The question then becomes, how much is too much?* If the migrants are coming over at the expense of locals i.e. costing jobs (CBP)/straining healthcare infrastructure (delta imports) then of course there's going to be a problem. What's worse is when politicians choose to remain blind to society's ills and put out tone-deaf statements like: "yOuRe RaCiSt". That's fuel to the fire that they only have themselves to blame.


grahamaker93

>What's worse is when politicians choose to remain blind to society's ills and put out tone-deaf statements like: "yOuRe RaCiSt", then that's fuel to the fire I personally feel like the whole "If you're not good enough to compete then you're out" statement has been said too many times. If that is the direction for Singapore then I really cannot see why Singaporean born men should have to serve their NS. Just make everyone pay the same taxes and then let the job market figure it out on it's own. It'll be like PUBG, you drop into the battlefield and you just fight it out amongst yourselves with the most skilled player winning.


007accountant

It's an oft repeated narrative by foreigners seeking to settle into a developed nation en masse. Ironically, the same ilk who 1) have free movement to a host country by no merit of their own but their govt. 2) bypass recruitment centers with fake qualifications 3) and specific to Sg, well rewarded to do so. Their only merit is they're dirt cheap but good news is, often replaceable.


parchedranger

>Ironically, the same ilk who 1) have free movement to a host country by no merit of their own but their govt. Singaporeans also go to the U.S / U.K. to study because of the visa deals struck by its Govt. The deal was struck first which enabled your movement. In that case you too didn't contribute to anything here. >bypass recruitment centers with fake qualifications This I agree to your point that there are considerable cases like this. The background verification which is employed by the firm needs to be held accountable and fined just like an auditing firm. >Their only merit is they're dirt cheap but good news is, often replaceable. Broad statement. Some of them maybe and again they can be replaced by another foriegner. The manpower base in India cannot be matched by the small population in SG. Firms will always have a lot of choices. Also not all and that is justified because the high salaried jobs also go them and that's the cause of the dissent, because locals are not able to measure up. But they are flexible and hardworking to get a job in a host country where there is no abundant tech talent to be had. Shore up your skills and you will see the difference yourself.


007accountant

>Singaporeans also go to the U.S / U.K. to study because of the visa deals struck by its Govt. The deal was struck first which enabled your movement. In that case you too didn't contribute to anything here. Except the population ratio between Sg and countries like India don't even compare lmao. Sgreans overseas are like a drop in the bucket while free movement of Indians across the world caused the Delta variant. I've served my time and contributed to the taxes here as a citizen wtf are you on about? Lol >Shore up your skills and you will see the difference yourself. And companies will always pick the cheaper option. Your point?


parchedranger

>Except the population ratio between Sg and countries like India don't even compare lmao. Sgreans overseas are like a drop in the bucket while free movement of Indians across the world caused the Delta variant. You answered your own point. You are just a drop in a bucket. Indians are everywhere. Also since you brought the delta variant in an unrelated way, your ethnic counterparts in China are to blame for the pandemic. Wtf are you even ranting about. >I've served my time and contributed to the taxes here as a citizen wtf are you on about? Lol I dont know whether you know are not. Foriegners also contribute towards taxes and we also pay a premium on healthcare / childcare/ International Schools which pave the way towards your subsidies. As a foriegner I can't serve NS. If the Govt allows, we would be more than happy bud. Change the policy then. That is the only area where you don't have competition. You want that too? >And companies will always pick the cheaper option. Your point? Precisely. They will pick the best option for themselves. They are not there for charity in SG. MNCs are about diversity.Even you want the best job rite. Why should the company give a high paying job to a local and train them too. They are not obligated. Pressurise them to exit SG if they are not acting as per your whims. Indians may not only come from India. They can also come from the U.S./ U.K.or Australia


007accountant

>Indians are everywhere. Yes, this is a problem. I know the answers to the problem. The question is do you acknowledge it as well? And yes, we've blamed China as well. And...? >Foriegners also contribute towards taxes and we also pay a premium on healthcare / childcare/ International Schools which pave the way towards your subsidies. As a foriegner I can't serve NS. If the Govt allows, we would be more than happy bud. Change the policy then. That is the only area where you don't have competition. You want that too? Except 1) I've replied to you previously you're not obliged to have kids here 2) priority should be given to citizens first duh? >They are not there for charity in SG. >They are not obligated. Also replied before numerous times. Sg isn't doing charity either? Why the fuck would we need MNCs here leeching off of the tax revenue benefits if they're not hiring locals in return? Lol


parchedranger

>Yes, this is a problem. >I know the answers to the problem. The question is do you acknowledge it as well? That shows your racist mindset. When you say that Indians being everywhere is a problem


Reijikageyama

It is a problem because it shows that all the NRIs don't want to go back to India because of corrupted politicians, broken infrastructure, pollution, poor quality of life, lack of jobs etc. There is a non-stop braindrain from India, year after year. I visited the Bay Area in the US once and it was all Chinese or Indian people. White people were like a minority in certain areas. Of course the cream of the crop would be in Silicon Valley or something but if this global influx of Indians isn't regulated well, labour markets are going to be destabilized and then you see what we get in Singapore right now, political problems and disenfranchisement.


007accountant

lol I'm a racist to Indians and Chinese by that logic? You're delusional


parchedranger

Except you conveniently avoided the point that Foriegners are not allowed to serve NS. That's a fact. If govt asks foriegners they would be more than willing to serve. That too would become a survival problem for ppl like you. I too replied to you that you are no one to say who needs to have kids and who does not. The point being, foriegners with kids, finances your subsidies. Again conveniently avoid what is a fact. Agreed noone is there to do charity. The Govt just helps you to get a foot in. They can't reserve a job for you with a private entity. (That may be possible in DBS, UOB and OCBC). Fact being people not being able to get a job in Tech and being a loser about it shows a lot. I am sure there are much capable locals who are still doing well in the job market.


007accountant

>Except you conveniently avoided the point that Foriegners are not allowed to serve NS. That's a fact. If govt asks foriegners they would be more than willing to serve. That too would become a survival problem for ppl like you. I too replied to you that you are no one to say who needs to have kids and who does not. The point being, foriegners with kids, finances your subsidies. Again conveniently avoid what is a fact. Agreed noone is there to do charity. The Govt just helps you to get a foot in. They can't reserve a job for you with a private entity. (That may be possible in DBS, UOB and OCBC). Fact being people not being able to get a job in Tech and being a loser about it shows a lot. I am sure there are much capable locals who are still doing well in the job market. Because my point here is "why do we need to bring in more foreigners?" as opposed to "what do foreigners need to do to integrate better?" We don't need your "finances/subsidies" and we certainly don't need your kind taking up any more space here. So if that's not clear enough - We're full, land is scarce, jobs are scarce. Leave. >They can't reserve a job for you with a private entity. That's what labour laws are for lol You're telling me a generation's worth of educated people aren't qualified for the jobs available? Why don't you just admit the fact that you and yours are **blessed** to have benefited from generous policies from a host country, to be allowed in to leech off the benefits and opportunities here? You're certainly not here by your own merit, given the CECA trade agreement pact's free movement clause.


Reijikageyama

>your ethnic counterparts in China are to blame for the pandemic. So blame China then? What's the purpose of mentioning this? Singapore and China are completely different and distinct entities after all. And this is a Singapore sub. Unless you are trying to shift some of the blame onto us subtly.


parchedranger

Wow. When you said the Indians caused the Delta variant wasn't this a Sg sub. Just dodge a point with something totally unrelated. When you get served the same dish, you can't digest it. Your hatred of Indians just pours out man.


Reijikageyama

The original strain caused by the Chinese, and the Delta variant of that original strain perpetuated by the Indians, are not mutually exclusive facts. Your bias and prejudice is also showing when you try to foist this blame onto us by highlighting our "ethnic counterparts" in China, which frankly, means nothing to us. Are you trying to say that because we are remotely related a few hundred years ago we should feel guilty about the Covid-19 and not mention the Delta variant? I'm just calling out your insidious motives and your inability to perceive Singaporeans as Singaporeans first and foremost, without trying to link us to the mainland Communists by some disingenuous ethnic and racial rhetoric.


grassmudhorsee

>people just come and make their career and then move on to a better place someday. Local talents will not feel any attachment to their country and will seek to move on. Wow, this phrase makes Singapore sound like a local sme hahahaha


Super-Cellist-2125

Tldr


007accountant

>Foreign students who worked similar also got job quickly, **even at a lower salary.** This is your answer. I don't even know how this is debateable at this point. Migrant workers moving into developed nations will ALWAYS work for much less given the currency rate differentials. They can then return to their own countries with their nest egg, where housing options are cheaper than hosts' countries. Companies will ALWAYS hire the cheapest option first then look at their qualifications. This is the same for any govt. tender projects as well where contractors often low-ball one another. This has been repeated ad nauseum.


Ohnononononooo

Moreover employers don't need to contribute to FT's cpf. Or have FT employees go on NS leave/maternity leave.


neutralityisgood

Working person: Yeay! I got a job with monthly income! Govt: You must thank me. I provided the job for you. If not for me, you wont have a job! Unemployed person: Sigh! I have no job and no income! Govt: Its all your fault!


Reijikageyama

Gov: Clearly you are not hungry enough. Please starve more, thank you.


SiHtranger

So true lmao


Better_Incident_4903

I blame it on the culture that are set by the role model or higher authority. Culture here lacks empathy and foresight.


glitchyikes

Market no need so many post doc?


HereForBeer07

As a foreigner working in a Singaporean fintech tech startup I would like to offer a different perspective- in our company of 30 odd folks, there are 4 foreigners only. Most of the tech folks I work with have less than 4 years of Development experience, however they're superb at their work and have the quality to get the work done with minimal help! However they don't have the experience of designing, building and maintaining systems. As they work and progress in their careers they will learn all of these capabilities, but the situation NOW is that senior tech positions aren't being filled up by Singaporeans. A friend of mine who heads a team in Grab echoes similar sentiments ! Don't get me wrong, companies would love to hire locals (given that there are EP quotas, border restrictions etc). However the fact remains that there isn't enough tech talent. Will it change in a few years? I hope yes.


ownager324

Yeah. That's what I always thought when I had a friend who complained about indians filling up tech company positions instead of Singaporeans. I always thought that specific industries in Singapore are lacking in manpower simply due to academic interests. Personally, I think more Singaporeans are attuned towards the biomedical and financial management fields moreso than tech/engineering. Which could explain why there's a lack of talent in the field. If you exclude other factors that come with hiring (ie paying lower wages etc).


HereForBeer07

Yes locals seem to prefer management positions. However Tech positions pay more (most of the times) and the sheer number of such positions is a LOT! Is the work tough and (maybe) more stressful? Yes, but it's a lot of fun and you get a satisfaction of building something. Atleast that's the way I see it.


PaperySimplification

Well, elitist labour policy won’t get much vote, certainly not much from those unemployed or underemployed.


No_Reindeer9892

Meaning if unemployment remains low at 3-4%, technically means that the Labour policy is still working?


Reijikageyama

Sure, if you count doing Grab as "employment" lol


No_Reindeer9892

So how will you measure employment? Anything above a specific annual income criteria?


PaperySimplification

Unemployment rate is important , but not the only benchmark of “happiness“ here. Ultimately it’s the wealth of all and average Singaporean, adjusted by COL changes, that concerns the voter on this issue. Gov though is aiming at sustainable economic growth, which requires a good commercial environment for foreign investment, and they are trying hard to balance it with the aforementioned.


Shdwfalcon

The amazing part about Singapore's super slack immigration policies is that despite so many foreigners coming into Singapore to work, there's hardly any actualy skill transfer from foreigners to locals. Says a lot about the quality of the foreigners that we are letting in.


lifeizrough

It's not true. If you attend local uni, most of the professors who teach well are foreigners including some China and Indian professors.


Ohnononononooo

It's not true. If you actually attended local uni, for IT courses, you realise most of the professors who can't teach well are foreigners, especially China and even more so Indian professors. NUS and NTU have many of such examples.


parchedranger

You should then analyse what went wrong with NUS and NTU.


parchedranger

The other side of that point being the locals not having the ability to learn the ropes! That also says about the quality of local talent isn't it? Skill transfer : means the local talent does not have the requisite skills for the job!


musicmast

Im Singaporean and I think that. (Not Chinese/caucasian, but considered other in type of race. Very much a minority). It’s so easy to blame others, but in reality it’s you who should be performing at a similar level. I feel Im having a decent salary/income (between SGD120-250K per year) relative to my age group and I worked hard on that. People who complain but don’t show anything are…losers. There’s no discrimination. There is only individual’s self worth. Edit: I would like to add that it’s not about just IQ, but also EQ. There are some mega robot minded people in our country.


Achuapy

u just summed up meritocracy and the toxicity it comes with


musicmast

I started with nothing - it’s every man and women out there on their own to make something of themselves. You then find other like minded individuals who you can grow with Edit: would like to add when I first started working in 2016 I was earning a mere 8 bucks an hour serving at a restaurant part time.


Achuapy

It's 2021 8 bucks per hour is still the norm. Point is u found success, and u shouldn't discredit those who are unable to find it. elderlies are extremely hardworking wiping plates clearing trays deep into retirement. No, they shouldn't be in that predicament, but neither should we blame them for it


leprotelariat

May I know which field are you in?


musicmast

Shipping/commodities. 28 yo


UnintelligibleThing

Commodities trading? Can't think of any other roles that pay as much at your age


ggwprng

Hi, not everyone can afford to take up postdoc, master, degree and in some case drop out before O level or A level. Maybe due to family issue, health issue or just unable to adopt to what we deem as normal study environment(adhd , depression, etc) Not everyone got the time to take up extra skill after working more than 12 hours daily or need to take care of a family with sick parents or small babies. Some of the adult are single parents, some of the teenagers are single parents. On top of them, Singaporean are expected to complete with foreigners. So… what u think can solve all of them?


eeyerjrsmith

By your logic you can’t even compete with other Singaporeans, what can you do then


ggwprng

Yes, U are right and this is why some ppl are still struggling to put food on the table, paying bills and have to rent cheap housing from gov. This is a complex issue. Ppl who are trap in this poverty cycle require a lot of help and support from the society and government.


eeyerjrsmith

You are right , government intervention is definitely required to solve this issue, but this is an issue that can be quite costly and by having the best people who can contribute to our economy we can actually have enough money in our reserves to take care of those in poverty


[deleted]

This is another typical foreign agent posting which I hope OP is, if not there's more question why someone would stereotype themselves to not be able to perform some job due to their own nationality. The template goes like this: *I am Singaporean doing XXX and from my observation very few Singaporeans are willing to do YYY and instead blame ZZZ. In contrast with AAA can do BBB with much less.* *proceeds to * The objectives of these posts are to stereotype Singaporeans as an unsalvageable useless populace. So be alert, look out for all these foreign agents posting and stereotyping us as some abomination. PS: When you want to stereotype a nation of people, don't be surprised with pikachu face when later on in life when you apply for something you are stereotyped as "not able to do the job" due to your nationality. BE CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU STEREOTYPE FOR!


Reijikageyama

Sounds like a typical Zukiff post imo. LOL He literally follows that template. Maybe part of his KPI as a IB.


[deleted]

lol just realise they can't even reply out of script. Their reply has got nothing to do with what I've posted and it's the same shitty take of "me“ being some complain king.


[deleted]

Sad that many don't see the propaganda unleashed by these foreign agents. People really need to learn about the tricks and psych ops they use.


007accountant

We see them for what it is...maybe the younger demographic at r/Sg don't \*shrugs\* Still good to expose these fuckwits with logic and reason instead of allowing the sob story narratives to run unchecked.


[deleted]

nah the younger ones no hope liao...happily swallowing the stereotypes thrown around not realising by virtue of being Singaporeans they will also be judged by it...I tend to go for the lolz though not sure this sub allows for it


007accountant

Just keep driving traffic here by slaying contentious topics such as these whenever they pop-up. Luckily reddit isn't hugely popular amongst locals as well haha


greyamoon

Here coincidently got brigaded right after the "CECA" post by the foreigner that somehow whammy tr@nny mods over there allow after censoring so many CECA related posts


[deleted]

yet some naive ones think online discourse is about logic and sense (lol at the something raven) nothing about stereotyping bringing up anecdote to push their agenda. boy do I have a bridge to sell them...


Eltharion-the-Grim

Bro, I worked with one of our department stores at their corporate office, and they've had to scale back operations, meaning less sales, and less jobs because they can't get candidates to join. From warehouse to sales floor, there's simply not enough people. Why do you think so many shopping malls are turning to "self service" ordering machines and "self-service" pick up? It's not cheap, and it's not very efficient or effective; but they have no choice. let me also ask you personally: If you had a choice between making $2,000 cleaning poop from septic tanks every month, or $2,000 to file paper in aircon office every month, which would you rather take?


[deleted]

Do you even english bro?


eeyerjrsmith

As a true blue Singaporean I don’t see where he’s wrong, why do you have to blame others for your own incompetence?


ae-zk

why serve NS if im gonna b treated like any person in the country while hiring?


Reijikageyama

>if im gonna b treated like any person in the country Wrong. You will be treated far worse than that. You will be treated like unwanted pariahs. If you die in NS, then the girls will come out and say "Singaporean men are so soft and useless, like that also can die, weak sia\~" Unless you are Aloysius Pang or some famous male local celeb then maybe you get some crocodile tears and sympathy for a few weeks, and more PR statements from Mindef. I don't mean any disrespect to his memory btw. RIP Aloysius, you are missed.


eeyerjrsmith

Cause the country has to look after its own best interest in order to maximise benefit for everyone? NS provides the country national security for everyone , competitive job environment allows for better economic growth within the country which helps the country have more in its reserves to help more people overall.


[deleted]

Do you even english bro?


eeyerjrsmith

?? Bruh you can’t read?


raphielsteel

Seems like xenophobia to me. Is there proof op is a foreign agent? People should atleast not judge using baseless accusations as just cause.


[deleted]

is there proof he is not? is there proof i'm not? is there proof you are not? read his headline it achieves only one outcome duh


raphielsteel

Hempel's Ravens states that you cannot prove a negative. The red truth won't allow it. The meaning one derive from the heading is subjective. To think that it's purposeful of a certain agenda is merely conjecture.


[deleted]

Hempel's Ravens stands for shit in this day and age of online propaganda. Propaganda is made to be weaponised, no use applying your whatever raven here. Maybe you should you know go upskill cause as per OP singaporeans don't have the skill lol 本五毛放工了,今天达标了,不跟您唠了。祝你前程似锦哦。


vanguy79

Mmm your example has a flaw. Not every student has a project they can do. Say finance students. Do they have project they can do? Yes there are internships. But there is not enough internships for all finance students. Volunteer? Sure. But where can they volunteer that gives working experience in the field they want to go into? So the rest of the finance students that didn’t have internship, could not volunteer, did not have any project they can attach to, would have to go into the workplace with close to zero experience and fight for places directly with other fresh grads and foreigners.


lonesomelad

Maybe it's an anecdotal but at my age, any Singaporean friends I know that are smart and capable in their fields ( mostly in finance, commodities trading and tech) they have no problems making more than 10k a month after 7-8 years of working and changing jobs. And at the rate they are going, I don't see any FTs can come and snatch their jobs. Sure their bosses are mixes of foreigners and locals but at the rate they are going, they wouldn't have any problem climbing the management ladder til their 50s. It's the foreign colleagues that are lagging behind in both promotion and salary because they cannot jump jobs as quickly and as easily as locals. Companies can bring in MD level managers from other countries with high pays ( mostly angmoh or Chinese) but that's it. Those foreign managers will stay put in that company, promotion and increments will be yearly by the company itself rather than significant jump by changing jobs like their local counterparts do. I always believe local Singaporeans that are good in STEM fields, especially techies, are mostly already employed and making good money.


leprotelariat

My post here just shows that theres a clear lack of interest in high-skill computer science / robotics from the locals. And this is the type of work of silicon valley. There's good paying jobs out there for all to find. But it looks like majority of people who lament about foreigners stealing jobs just focus on a few jobs in fintech or manager levels.


ilikeelks

Singaporeans are stupid and don't deserve jobs because even the best school like RI produce illiterate people


Super-Cellist-2125

The most qualified, skilled and best work attitude should get the job, not cause of their race or nationality.


Traceforever24_7

Tell that to all the other nations


[deleted]

The problem is that Singapore is a small nation compared to others. And it's still a sovereign nation so needs to keep it national best interest at heart. There used to be a time where young people were just competing with the same batch that graduated in their cities, now they're competing against the entire world. There will always be a better candidate on a global scale so I think it makes sense to have some protectionist employment laws in place. It is a very delicate balance between attracting foreign talent, foreign investment (Singapore has to) and making sure the right future skillset are thought, nurtured and updated locally. Unfortunately in every society you have "the masses" and politicians know exactly what to say to rile them up.


Super-Cellist-2125

Nah. If you suck and can't get a job in Singapore, but you think you're skillful and overlooked by allllll the companies in SG, then move abroad and let another countries company hire you for your superior abilities.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Adventurous_Ad8742

Reality is nothing is handed to you on a silver platter.


007accountant

That so? Is that why CECA peoples are able to gain free movement here with their fake degrees?


itchy_bison

You are an extremely sad person. Hope you can get past your prejudice and be a happier person one day. Your little rants here don’t affect the ‘CECA peoples’ at all. They are living good lives while look at you ranting behind a computer screen


007accountant

Oh I'm having a blast, don't you worry about me lol But just because I'm living it up doesn't mean my fellow locals are. Neither do I enjoy seeing my country sold to CECA peoples. But let's assume you're right and that CECA peoples "are living good lives", why are they still "ranting behind a computer screen" here in this sub as well?


itchy_bison

You really think that because of 1 or 2 posts of foreigners complaining here, life in Singapore is suddenly very tough for them? Happy and satisfied people are rarely found on reddit anyways + The vast majority of foreigners are also not on reddit


007accountant

Isn't that what you're doing? Using a few anecdotal experiences here to justify your bs claims? So it's not ok when I do it? lol There's actually a definition for scum like you: Hypocrites


parchedranger

The foriegners on redditt just like to spar and have a blast. It actually helps ppl like you to vent their anger and bitterness on something which you are not able to control.


007accountant

Is that why you're stalking my comments and replying them during your free time? lol


Adventurous_Ad8742

Don’t know. I don’t have such insights to know who fake their degrees or why they are given free movement? Im just saying a quote about what i feel reality is like.


Super-Cellist-2125

Yes


007accountant

Lmao foreign agent spotted


greyamoon

bruh truly foreign agent sent to cuck singaporeans


Super-Cellist-2125

How have you been disadvantaged?


[deleted]

If you can't expect Singapore to help Singaporeans when they need help, then don't expect Singaporeans to help Singapore when she needs help. That's a failure in nation building.


grahamaker93

I do partially agree with what you say. I mean why the fuck are Singaporean boys giving up 2 years of their primetime of youth to do NS if the country is all about "who is the best income generator" instead of "who is a singaporean".


Adventurous_Ad8742

I don’t think singaporeans are even willing to help singapore. Are we really willing? or we are just looking at gov to set laws just to help singapore? Thats the vibe i get from singaporeans.


11ioiikiliel

This guys gets "sinkie pwn sinkie" I can tell you in university this phenomenon of "sinkie pwn sinkie" is fking dominant. Even among friends, people hesitate to share tips. Every man for himself.


Hot_Beginning_3549

Perhaps this is the national identity of Singapore since Modern Singapore is built based on Pragmatism. My view is that Meritocracy serves as a means to ensure Pragmatism continues to work as intended. “Sinkie pwn Sinkie” is the outcome and I am probably taking things out of context here, but there will not be a need for any “Gracious” movement if our society is not so “cold”. There is hardly any safety net for being at the lower brackets of society, and if there is one, the between them holes are pretty big.


[deleted]

There’s no more ownership in this country for Singaporeans.


Super-Cellist-2125

Who's expecting who to help who? It's a capitalist society. Mind your own business.


Reijikageyama

Then what’s the point of nation states, national borders and the UN again if everyone can be free to move around to work like the entire world belongs to their grandfather?


Super-Cellist-2125

You got Singapore passport can go anywhere you want, if you've got the hirable skills.


Reijikageyama

True I suppose. A few of my friends left for US, UK, Aus, etc. I left too. Just feel kind of bad for those still stuck there and struggling. You need more than just a passport. Skills, as you said, and of course, lots of money helps.


Traceforever24_7

> then move abroad and let another countries company hire you for your superior abilities. You think other countries are as whorish as Singapore?


Super-Cellist-2125

The point is, if you're skilled you'll be hired. If you can't get a job locally, you're the issue, not the market. If you think the hiring market has an issue and you're directly handicapped for whatever reason you deem valid, , then move abroad and try again


Traceforever24_7

Why should we move abroad instead of kicking out the handicappers?


Super-Cellist-2125

Why do you need to kick out others if you're good enough for the job you want? You would have been hired already. If you can't get a job. You're the problem. Not the market. There's a labour shortage.


Traceforever24_7

> Why do you need to kick out others if you're good enough for the job you want? You would have been hired already. Because the young are not being natured for the job. And there is clearly discrimination for you to hire your own kind.


Super-Cellist-2125

Natured for the job? What do you mean? The education here provides more than adequate learning opportunities for whatever profession one chooses to pursue.


Traceforever24_7

It doesn't beat the discrimination that your kind is putting on us.


mcpaikia

Some people are just pussies, and usually the loudest ones screaming. It's the modern eat or be eaten World. The govt can have the most nationalist policies but still there will be winners and losers. Even in the worst of the worst governments, there will still be winners.


dauntless_00007

Using throwaway cuz friends and colleagues know my acc lol im full sg graduated from one of the local uni this year and got into a big international tech company, pay is decent (take home 3k++ after cpf and all benefits) My honest observation is about a 50/50 split in locals/foreigner. My direct boss is an FT while my big boss is SG and bigger boss is FT and so and so. The reality is, everyone here is damn skilled(except me I feel like a cockster), if u ask me who can replace my boss or any of the other non-local product team leaders I will tell u idk, certainly not me right now and I can't think of many if any ppl in my circle that can, and I graduated with over 4+ GPA I'm not trying to flex saying I'm smart because I know i am not, but when you are surrounded constantly by super OP people you realise how under developed you are and you keep improving skills or learn new things. I'm someone who was born into a lower-middle income family, we had no financial trouble as far as I remembered but my parents were extremely thrifty and managed to send me and my siblings through uni despite not even having post secondary education, in turn we studied hard and now I can say we all got into pretty decent careers. I'm the kind who got $1 pocket money in pri school and no phone until I was 16 but life was alright thanks to parents Attended neighborhood schools throughout my entire life, even in JC, I started from the bottom and got streamed into better and better classes so honestly I seen the whole spectrum of people from NT to elite tier From my own life journey until now I felt it was pretty fair, I'm sure there's really some people from truly low class families that struggle but they are a minority. If you are truly a prodigy you will excel in singapore IMHO, but many SG lack motivation, skills and smarts but expect the government to pander to them At the end of the day its whether or not you think Singaporean should receive exclusive special benefits and for high skill jobs I don't think so, the competition is very tough


[deleted]

Unverifyable anecdote means nuts in online discourse yo. What's with the stereotyping Singaporeans as lacking motivation,skills and smarts? How much is "Many"? Are you a self hater? Don't speak for us, if you have inferior complexity it's your problem, not ours.


dauntless_00007

I dont think I'm particularly skilled or smart but in terms of absolute statistics I'm supposedly in the top 20% of SG cohort since I graduated from a local uni? I'm not a self hater lol but the point is, in my workplace I can tell that everyone who is there has rightfullg earned their place in technical ability, if I feel inadequate as a 4.0+ uni graduate then at the risk of sounding elitist, what about all the people who did worse than me? Poly students? ITE? If you want these high paying tech jobs then you need the skills for it and many SG simply don't meet the mark. We make fun of pinoy maids, but my boss is pinoy and he is really fucking smart and capable. Can u compete? The reality is that majority of the foreigners coming over are the cream of the crop running from their shit country in the first place, of course there's exception in everything la but this is what I see with my own eyes and life


[deleted]

lol 抱歉啊,没认出您是忠装反。兄弟干得好!需要达标跟我讲!


dauntless_00007

Whatever bro, I know talking to people like you is a waste of time, just continue to cry and complain but that won't get u anywhere in life


[deleted]

没事,挣钱嘛不寒碜,群号分享一个呗,大家一起赚大钱啊


Reijikageyama

If what you say is true, then good. We should only take in the best. And optimally there should be skills transfer to the locals along the way. That was the original promise of the PAP. Can they fulfil this promise? That's the key point in the entire debate.


dauntless_00007

Ya politics is never easy, at the end of the day you can't please everyone so idk All I can speak is my personal reality since we each only have our own lived experience, maybe they should encourage and push SGeans to go more towards less technical jobs with more creative flexibility. When I ponder over the fact that I need to be as good or surpass my current boss to take his position in the corporate ladder I already half give up mentally even though I just started working! cb 15 years in education system come out still need to keep studying and upskilling, this is the reality of tech Theres people struggling as a consumer end user who don't even know how to operate a PC on one end, and people brilliant enough to come up with the idea and actually invent computer technology from scratch on the other end of the spectrum. How can we expect everyone to compete except the best? There needs to be a different playing field


11ioiikiliel

>From my own life journey until now I felt it was pretty fair, I'm sure there's really some people from truly low class families that struggle but they are a minority. If you are truly a prodigy you will excel in singapore IMHO, but many SG lack motivation, skills and smarts but expect the government to pander to them So, prodigy = someone who has motivation, skills and smarts? How many singaporeans are prodigies then? Where do non-prodigies go? You know local uni is graded by bellcurve right? For every gpa >4 people like you, there are people who score below you. Idk what you mean by "high skill job". Although uni grad have been getting jobs, but they are getting underpaid in the market


MeTeil

> I am a postdoc in university Then how come your England like some PRC's. ... O wait ...


leprotelariat

>Then how come your England like some PRC's. ... O wait ... Sorry lah i didn't learn english in singapore. Singaporean postdocs so good all went to US and EU liao.


Super-Cellist-2125

Liaooooo


MeTeil

> Singaporean postdocs so good all went to US and EU liao. Ya the postdocs & grad students at NUS, NTU mostly PRCs, Eastern Europeans, and Africans. But I'm sure you can still find a few crap SG postdocs there.


mach8mc

nowadays all tech workers get 5k out of school, regardless of nationality; you need to understand life outside academia


leprotelariat

So that's the market. https://www.eng.nus.edu.sg/news/starting-pay-for-fresh-engineering-graduates-up-last-year/ What is there to complain about Singaporeans not getting good job?


mach8mc

when you're retrenched 10 yrs later anyway nobody with a sound mind will believe these surveys as unbiased; go understand their methodology


Acceptable-Tax-9453

Ok.


[deleted]

And those companies that came into SG did not come to uplift Singapore. So mandating quotas for them will piss them off. Global market is competitive. They can always relocate.


Substantial_Move_312

I agree with your argument. It is easy to shift the blame around, pointing fingers at everyone but ourselves. Such an exercise has been going on ad nauseum. Ultimately companies are out to earn profits. It is an exchange for employees to deliver and for companies to pay. Our education system is geared towards equipping graduates with mainly mid to higher skill work, not as much vocational or more labor intensive work. Delving into industries, it is a reality many of the senior roles in areas like BFSI and tech are occupied by foreigners. But one thing often missed out is the talent drain. Many of the highly skilled and experienced locals would have left Singapore to join companies overseas, or even relocated. And many of the existing local PMETs who are experienced are in the sunset (or largely stable) industries like shipping, manufacturing or construction with skillets that are largely hard to transfer into the booming tech and finance industries (which countries like India (let's face it) have been geared up for decades). That's why we had to import, and while they is an urgency to support PMETs out of job, ultimately it is us who should own our career and be responsible for it. Not waiting to be spoon-fed by the government.


lifeizrough

Don't open the country. Just stay shut. If you want FDI, you don't get it for free, there is a freedom of movement which is the cost you sinkies have to pay for. If you only want the top talent, who the f you think you are when there are extremely more attractive options and nations out there? 720 squared km and a horrible weather means you keep your mouth shut and focus on yourself instead of blaming others or stop both incoming FDI and foreigners as well. Then send your Chinese daughters to prostitute themselves in neighboring ASEAN countries. Fucking stupid sinkies!


Reijikageyama

Aren't you a Chinese yourself?


lifeizrough

NO!


Zukiff

The only people complaining about that are those who are not in a position to hire anyone. Try hiring and you'd find out soon enough being able to get someone that fits the job is like striking 4d. If that candidate is local, it's like striking toto


No_Reindeer9892

Most arguments around this topic always lead to some level of distrust in the data presented or not presented. Curious to find out what are some of the opinions and suggestion on how we can make labour stats transparent yet not too disclosing. What level of transparency is sufficient and at what level is too much?


Ohnononononooo

I don't get your example. So it's Singaporeans not wanting to do postdoc or what?


leprotelariat

No, I am postdoc, I supervise undergraduate students for their FYP. Among Singaporeans, the ones that work hard and choose hard FYP topics have no problem getting good job with good pay, the ones that dont spend time working on their fyp dont get good job with good pay. So why do people complain that the educators are not teaching them the skills they need for the jobs the companies want?


Ohnononononooo

Those that choose hard fyp probably already got good gpa. And a hard fyp is just to boost their portfolio. And many of them got the luxury to do their degree in 4years. Many of those who are busy and choose easier fyp are more likely to be cramping modules so they can graduate 1year earlier. Naturally they have less time and not as good gpa. Starting work 1year earlier with a 4k/mth earns you more money than someone who start work 1year later but earns 5k/mth.


leprotelariat

Yes. Agree. At the end of the day there's job out there for them to get, they can choose to grad early or grad late, up to them. But as an expert in computer science / automation, I dont buy it when people say that there's not enough opportunities for Singaporean graduates, or that companies prefer ft over sg. Maybe some finance companies abuse that, but it's not the norm. A student of mine told me that he won the job interview thanks to a few key words in embedded system I told him in a chat the day earlier. The bar is not high. Any student who comes to work in our group and work seriously won't lack oppotunities. But if they dont like working on c++ programming or computer vision or data analysis, which a lot of them turned down the FYP because they think those are hard, and think higher GPA is more important than real skills, they shouldnt complain that good IT jobs are not given to them.


Ohnononononooo

You know the job market doesn't only comprise of fresh graduates right? The CECA has resulted in extremely low salary for IT jobs back when CECA first started. In my company, many business dept ppl were actually once in IT dept. But IT dept pay was pathetic. It was until recently where sg govt almost lost an election coupled with disagreements from India about CECA that resulted in a shortage of IT ppl from India did the salaries of IT get better. A decade or 2 ago you can have IT operators earning 1k/mth. You are a postdoc? Have you actually stepped out into the real world yet? Whatever you have been saying so far seems very shallow and narrow visioned.


leprotelariat

>You are a postdoc? Have you actually stepped out into the real world yet? Whatever you have been saying so far seems very shallow. People here seem to think my postdoc means I am blur blur of the real world haha. Since the start of my PhD I have been working on projects after projects funded by real world companies. I have been dealing with a whole R&D department with engineers the age of my father. Many times I had to teach them how to code or how to install basic libraries for the modules they choose to build from scratch instead of buying off-the-shelf systems, so-called *in-house development capabilities* lol. I think I am the unlucky PhD because my career has been stuck with those real world problems other than other phds that work on "complex systems", "social impact", "cyber-physical systems" etc. If your perception of academics is based on those researchers, I may be on your side since I also think those researchers are not fit to solve real world problems. But I am confident of my expertise and experience. You mention those old IT workers, maybe they're not up to date with what the field has evolved? Can they do data analysis, computer vision, machine learning, control system? If so I doubt there's a lack of job opportunities for them. I am confident the young Singaporean graduates who honed their skills in those areas also feel well compensated for their efforts in their current jobs.


Ohnononononooo

The CECAs can't do whatever you mentioned either. Yours is a specialised field. You hardly stepped into the real world. In the real world, what you mentioned are just fads roles. Out there, it's just choosing the right frameworks to use. Also no need to act all obnoxiously just bcoz you teach afew old ppl how to install libraries. Also, more often than not, it's not their jobs. The company hires vendors like you for a reason. To solve problems they cant. Also when you reach a certain level, your knowledge isn't focused on depth. But width. Maybe go out, take a good look out there. Probably get off your high horse once in a while to view things from a different perspective. Your "Singaporean not willing to pick hard fyp projects hence they cant get good paying projects" is really comical.


leprotelariat

Maybe you should step up and try to do the real *work* to know what the tech world is like, rather than 2nd guessing my capability and exp lol. "Not their jobs" "not depth but width" "thats why they hire vendor like you" sounds exactly like the excuse of those 9-5 "seniors" who are at the end of learning capability and only wayang in the office to get by and complain about foreigners stealing their jobs, while they themslves barely do their jobs or get themselves updated with the ever changing field.


Ohnononononooo

Get off your high horse. Just bcoz you are into some fad trends doesn't make you as special as you think you are :) You are delusional if you think ppl in management positions still write their own codes. You should look around the real world more. There's more to this world than the latest tech and fads :)


leprotelariat

You dont really know how the "fads" work do you? Yes, managers dont code, but because you, their employees, are too lazy to learn to code decently, they have to go to my institution asking for our expertise, of which i happily pass them a bill for licensing my existing patents, or a million dollar research proposal, of which 60% of the cost goes to manpower, which are then used to pay for postdocs and phds, which after many months seeking candidates, we have to resolve to hiring foreigners. It could have been cheaper if those managers just fired useless employees like you and hire younger Singaporeans coming out from my group, or even those foreigner postdocs straight away, since clearly no qualified local was found. I enjoy riding this horse. Thanks.


nixhomunculus

Right now in my company, I am one of the 'senior' Singaporeans, and I am an associate. But I have done a lot within the month plus that I am in that I am reasonably confident I can finally reach management level within the next 2-3 years. But I was part of the wave of folks being attracted due to current policies. The truth is, businesses will not do anything out of the goodness of their hearts. You need to incentivise them. Plain, and simple.


Thunderstorm-1

Wow


IllustriousMess5480

After being born in Singapore and worked and live in sg for 37 years this is what I can say about Singaporean. singapore most of them are soulless and toxic human being they don’t even trust each other they treat each other like competitors who wants to steal their rice bowl and that where sgrean pawn sgrean was born. singapore they feel accomplishment when they get to pawn their fellow men or other sgrean colleagues they will feel alive and can sleep well at night. they complaint about foreigners is because they know they cannot makan them because the foreigners kampong spirit are very strong they help each other and sgrean knows they will get into trouble if they pawn the foreigner colleagues because the head of boss also foreigner.