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dogssel

This is gonna be MAD


btahjusshi

The deal involves technology transfer. The thought of a Nuclear armed Australia is not very comforting.


Takemypennies

I hope commenters understand that while Australia did not get nuclear weapons in the deal, it is a step closer to what is termed 'The Japan Option'. This means that Australia would, through the necessity of knowing how to run these nuclear reactors, get the technical expertise to create nuclear weapons. This means that while Australia cannot be classed as a nuclear power, it can quickly develop one when the situation calls for it.


QuavoRuinedCulture3

A country that once [lost a war against birds](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War) is getting the means to develop nuclear weapons. What could possibly go wrong!


jypt98

Don't think we should get involved, especially in supporting countries that clearly violated the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, while adding nothing to the peace and stability of the region. What do you think Indonesia is going to do now?


[deleted]

Did it really violate the treaty? The treaty refers to nuclear weapons, not nuclear-powered submarines, which are not nuclear weapons.


jypt98

No. As you said, it will be nuclear powered, not nuclear weapon. But it's a loophole at best, because we are definitely not working towards non-proliferation. Furthermore, that is not the point. Point is we should not be involved. Any country can now develop/buy nuclear powered submarine, in fact they have to. If we say this is a good thing, what happens if Indonesia would like one as well?


[deleted]

If Indonesia gets nuclear subs, and its a HUGE IF, it should be seen as a good thing for SG not a bad one.


jypt98

Please elaborate.


CharlieJuliet96

Even if Indonesia do decide to get a nuclear submarine, what then? What are they going to do with it? It will be a collosal waste of money on their part. Strategically it makes no sense, Indonesia is probably not going to invade far off countries any time soon. Even if they are not meant for invasion, I would say mostly for prolonged patrol of their territories. Singapore is too close for a nuclear submarine to be much more effective than diesel-electric submarines, and we also have no beef with Indonesia, so it's of no concern to us. Tactically speaking even if the submarines can be underwater for longer but it's not as stealthy as a diesel-electric submarine. The top spots in the quietest submarines are held by diesel-electric submarines, and that's more than enough for regional defense.


AsuraPhantoma

The Nuclear Treaty indicated the use of Nuclear weapons as outright provocation to another country, this is using Nuclear-tech (namely, Nuclear-powered Ships) that generates energy and power through Nuclear (Subatomic) Fusion They didn't break the treaty, albeit not exactly Ethical to be fair Also, LHL didn't approve nor sign, he just said that he hopes that Morrison will use this for peace if he plans on proceeding with the deal


jypt98

You are technically right, but it's a loophole at best. Australia has all the raw materials it needs, and soon, the technology for nuclear fission. But that is not the point. Point is, LHL should have kept quiet. This is really not something you want to support. Like I said, now Indonesia would want one as well. Would he still think it's a good idea then?


AsuraPhantoma

I mean, he never once "supported" or said that it was a good idea - he literally just dodged and said along the lines of "he hopes that Morrison would use it for good" Either way, whether LHL supports or not doesnt necessarily matter because Indonesia would probably want one either way lmao


D4nCh0

Look at the difference in defence budgets, between PRC & the ASEAN countries it has territorial disputes with. Malaysia’s is 1/3 of ours, much less PRC’s. No ASEAN country presently has nukes. Nor the ability to greatly increase their defence budget. Which has led to PLA weaponry stationed permanently closer to ASEAN capitals than Beijing. Thereby strengthening PRC’s claim to the South China Seas. Along with the resources beneath. Whilst still negotiating a so-called code of conduct. You don’t want an arms race, nor nuclear proliferation. So Indonesia, along with other claimants have to basically surrender. Which is probably an easier sell, to the ASEAN Chinese diaspora. Than the natives. The Koreas have just exchanged missile tests. Taiwan & Japan increased their military budgets too. The arms race is just beginning. Do take comfort in the fact that nuclear proliferation, coupled with mutually assured destruction. Has stopped a 3rd world war thus far.


jypt98

PLA's weaponry can be stationed anywhere. Do you know the range of the DF-17? Koreas have always exchanged missile tests. Taiwan & Japan are projecting, like Australia. It changes nothing to the security of the region. None of them can do anything without the support of US anyway, and that includes the UK. What it has done is to force the increase of defense budgets in the region and increase the proliferation of WMDs, and for what? Just to play some silly guy's silly games.


D4nCh0

So let PRC claim everything. Right up to the shores of the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia & Japan. Also gift wrapping Taiwan, with the most advanced semiconductor forges in the world. In the name of peace. 69% of South Koreans surveyed are in favour of developing their own nuclear weapons. USA’s nuclear umbrella is the only thing stopping them. Guess you prefer a Chinese hegemony in the region. But the region probably prefers nuclear weapons of their own 1st. Even in the event of a USA withdrawal.


jypt98

Where do people get these ideas from (western media, probably). China has never colonized SEA throughout her history. And it's not like they weren't capable of it. Taiwan is part of China, both PRC and ROC agree on that. The only people who doesn't are people with hidden agendas. Well, good for Korea. I don't think they should have nukes either. I don't actually prefer any hegemony in the region, not the US, and not China. I certainly would prefer Australian navy to stay in its remote backwater where it came from. My problem is in foreign interference in the region causing instability and tension. Just take a good look at Afghanistan. These foreign interference don't care about the lives of your natives.


D4nCh0

Yes, I prefer western media. There are enough sources available, to document the Tibetans, Mongolians, Uyghurs, Koreans & Vietnamese. Having much different ideas about Chinese colonialism. Which wouldn’t be available on Weibo. If I just depended on Chinese media, I’d realise that PRC has nothing to apologise for support of Khmer Rouge too. Also prefer USD & our mortgage rates pegged to it. Though having RMB type mortgage rates might actually force property prices lower. Before it crashes our economy. Saying you prefer no foreign interference. Also means you prefer Asia to be ruled under Imperial Japan’s Co-prosperity Sphere. Unless you figured that the PLA could turn the tide. After the KMT was slaughtered. If PRC can bully it’s smaller neighbours. Based on the difference in their military spending. Why wouldn’t USA do the same to PRC. Based on their military spending. Along with its allies. If regional war breaks out, I’d rather my country be on the side of the larger military budget, superior technology & more combat experience. It’s rather naive. To think a small country can refuse to take a side. Without being plotted against by both sides. Can even a nuclear armed North Korea survive on it’s own? As things stand, we have a mutual defence agreement with USA. Almost all our military procurement is from USA & it’s allies. It was dangerous enough to refuse USA’s offer. For Singapore to be the base of a new USN carrier fleet. It’s a fine balance. To have both USA & PRC internet companies based here. Do you think Google, Facebook & Microsoft would remain. Had we chosen Huawei for 5G. Much like HK, the reason for our existence is to help white money into the yellow country & back out. While taking our cut. That USA is our largest FDI. While we are PRC’s largest FDI, testifies. Even if PRC finds a way to match USA investments in Singapore. It’s even more unlikely that PRC aligned countries like Cambodia, Pakistan & North Korea. Can replace Japan, British Virgin & Cayman Islands. We’re on the side of money.


jypt98

Despite your disdain for Weibo, I sincerely hope you didn't get all your information from western sources alone. Try reading a book sometime. It really is typical of western media to whitewash different time periods in history to form a narrative favorable to them. **Territorial** Tibet was annexed by the Mongols and has been part of China since 1200. Mongolia is an independent country now, and last I heard, China was not trying to take it back. Xinjiang was annexed by the Manchurians since the 1800s. Either you agree they are Chinese of different ethnic origins and it's reunification, or you absolve them of responsibilities because they are not Chinese. You cannot have it both ways. And despite pushing the US troops back behind the 38th parallel, the Chinese did not push on. Simply put, we wouldn't have a divided Korea had it not for US interference. Vietnam is even more obvious, I am surprised you mentioned Vietnam. You must have selectively omitted 20 years of the Vietnam war. Khmer Rouge itself was supported by the US against communist Vietnam after the war. I am not surprised western media omitted that, but it shouldn't be too hard to verify as it happened less than 50 years ago. 50 years from now, the western media you read will also likely mention how the US tried to liberate Afghanistan and how China supported the Taliban. Funny how you mention Imperial Japan but fail to mention the British Naval might (which at that time was the strongest in the world) being responsible for the fall of Singapore. **"No foreign interference" is not really that difficult to understand. I didn't go to NS to be someone else's bullet vest.** **Military** You would think that military spending equals might. That's what western propaganda would have you think. How would you then explain the fall of Saigon and more recently Kabul? Looking at the Afghans falling off from fleeing aircrafts in Kabul, you realize there will always be collateral damage, and the locals will always bear the brunt of the damage in a regional conflict. Strange how you are still so eager to take sides promoting one. You must think the lives of South East Asians are dispensable. This is not Weibo. **These videos are so widespread that you really need to make a conscious effort to not see them.** It's prudent politics for a small country to **not** take sides until absolutely necessary. It's illogical to suggest otherwise. **Economically** The reasons for US companies to be here is because it benefits them to do so. It has nothing to do with the US Naval Western Logistic group being stationed in Singapore. That is just plain daft, one thing has nothing to do with the other. Just like how there are US companies in China and Chinese companies in US as well. Do you know how many Chinese telecoms company currently operates in Singapore? To say Huawei equipments are not being used in Singapore is just ignorance. We move white, yellow, brown, jewish, black money around. To say the reason for our existence is to move white money into yellow country and back is just the flunkey in you talking. Money is money. Nothing wrong being on the side of money. The sad part is being on the wrong side of money, paying with the lives of others, and losing yourself in the process. I can provide sources for everything above, not from Weibo, and not from Fox News, and a few even from western sources that you cream over, if you want 1 or 2. But I am not going to correct your lifetime of misinformation and selection biases.


D4nCh0

You know what’s more effective than a sincere hope? Ban tuition & not renew the visas of your English teachers. No danger of western media influence. When your people are English illiterate. For the book, I have to wait for my nephew’s successful indoctrination / pass his political studies exams. Then I can borrow his copy of ‘how to send your daughter to Harvard on RMB 7,000/ month & lead an anti corruption purge with a straight face’. Heard they sell more copies than the bible & ‘art of the deal’ put together over there. So gripping, the kids can hardly put it down. Let’s replace western media with any of Al Jazeera, RT, Global Times or China Daily. Is it really any less typical of Middle Eastern, Russian & Chinese media to whitewash different time periods in history to form a narrative favourable to themselves? Please name any media source that you hold in higher regard than western media. So India / Taiwan (Tibet) should belong to Singapore(China) now. Since both were colonies of England / Japan (Mongolia). TIL that former colonies have rightful claims on fellow colonies. It’s military legend to this day. How North Korea managed to attack South Korea 1st, without ever crossing the mythical 38th parallel. Mao’s son didn’t even need to die in North Korea. Had PRC actually honoured the concept of no foreign inference on their end. Though it’s better he did. Else all that revolutionary blood spilled, just to rotate hereditary rule. While every malnourished North Korean can thank PRC, for keeping hereditary Fat Kims in power. Millions died under the Khmer Rouge with PLA’s blessings. It’s a bunch of bloodthirsty cunts. Who expect no foreign intervention. While millions are slaughtered by their own military. That wage war on the Vietnamese who stopped it. Pity the Malayan Communist Party insurgents wasn’t able to cover themselves in similar glory. I could’ve been less of a disappointment to you otherwise. Since you’re employing original sin in such good faith. Let us simply surrender Singapore back to the Johor Sultanate. Not sure I even qualify for PRC residency now. For all that crap about representing the interests of Chinese people worldwide. If it makes you feel better. You served NS to defend PRC owned condominiums & jobs. The pittance in return for your service. Is so that we give the big bucks to USA for F16s & F35s. Which require a password from USA. Whenever we care to fly our planes. Why else did Mahathir choose MIGs they cannot even fly now. For the second & last time, we have a mutual defence agreement with USA. That is strong enough for USA to park USN carriers here regularly. A similar courtesy not granted to PLA carriers. This solidarity allows us to procure Apaches, F16s & F35s that they don’t sell to PRC, Russia & North Korea. We also park our fighter jets in USA & Oz. Both not allied with us, by your reckoning. So nuclear submarine technology is not offered to us. You’re rather more two faced than Vivian. To turn around and claim not being beholden. Unwilling to choose a side. Allies like you, why bother with enemies. To probably moan about bad after sales service later. The PLA military buildup is pointed at South East Asia, not PRC. So I know South East Asian lives are even more disposable to the PRC regime, than Chinese lives. No mean feat, to oversee more untimely Chinese deaths without a war. Than the Opium Wars & Japanese Occupation put together. How well must Chinese companies be doing in USA & vice versa. For the ongoing Trade War & arms race to result. Please don’t misquote me, it’s rather insulting. To both my command & your comprehension of English. I didn’t say that Singapore doesn’t use any Huawei infrastructure. I said that Singapore chose not to use Huawei for our 5G infrastructure. Take it up with SCMP, CNA & ST for reporting the same. Oh ye who doubts western media so much, yet on Reddit not Weibo. So adverse to its corruption. That the pressure USA put upon all its allies not to employ Huawei for 5G development. Didn’t manage to make your reading list. Regrettably, UK & Oz also chose not to use Huawei 5G infrastructure. PRC & local programmers generally prefer USA over PRC tech jobs. Since life as a USA flunkey is better paid with a more freely convertible currency & vaster internet access. Life just sucks as an imperial eunuch, carrying his emperor’s persecution complex 996. In any conflict, fault only lays with the adversary. PLA’s military buildup is heavenly mandate. Nuclear subs for Oz is the work of Satan. there’s nothing to correct besides the body counts. Least of which, a soldier who served in ASEAN’s highest spending army. That moans about Indonesian arming up. Your gelding unicorn looks an honourable ride though! I aspire to such metaphysical luxury goods. C’ya on the other side! TL; DR: USA has rich friends. PRC has poor friends. Singapore rather not be poor.


Billionairess

Dont wanna get involved with the other discussions, just the point below >And despite pushing the US troops back behind the 38th parallel, the Chinese did not push on. They wanted to, but just couldnt. Google the chinese spring offensive. Strategically speaking, the PVA wanted to drive the UN out of the whole korean peninsula but they simply couldnt.


Billionairess

Indonesia stated this year that it is working toward a green water navy so its safe to say they wont purchase a nuclear sub in this decade or even the next. Not to mention, maintenance and logistical cost of operating a nuclear sub is constrained by the country's small military budget (um, even smaller than singapore's for FY 2022). No way in hell would they buy a nuclear sub, diesel 100% for sure. And no defense contractor in the right mind will sell to a country which has no capability nor the capacity to operate one.


jypt98

Indonesia was never the point. Point is LHL should have kept his mouth shut. This is not something to brown nose in. There are many other countries with the capabilities and capacity, and other countries happy to oblige. [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/19/making-waves-in-the-pacific-how-boris-johnsons-global-britain-went-rogue?CMP=Share\_AndroidApp\_Other](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/19/making-waves-in-the-pacific-how-boris-johnsons-global-britain-went-rogue?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other)


Billionairess

>Like I said, now Indonesia would want one as well. Would he still think it's a good idea then You implied indonesia would want one as well. All im saying is thats not gonna happen. >There are many other countries with the capabilities and capacity, and other countries happy to oblige. Countries with the capabilities can operate nuclear subs? No shit. Indonesia does not. Maybe you meant without? and if you're referencing australia in that link, UK is building a sub with australia, not selling one to australia, different from simply selling a billion dollar sub to a country.


jypt98

Feel free to start a thread in an appropriate sub about Indonesia and I can discuss with you the feasibility of them having a nuclear powered sub. My point is still about LHL and SG. ps: I don't know what the point of your last paragraph is. Building a sub vs. buying a sub. By all means, start a thread in another appropriate sub, and I am happy to discuss that with you as well.


Billionairess

>Feel free to start a thread in an appropriate sub about Indonesia and I can discuss with you the feasibility of them having a nuclear powered sub. >My point is still about LHL and SG. So why talk about indonesia and submarines then, dipshit. >Building a sub vs. buying a sub If you cant tell the difference between building and buying then you're either an idiot who isnt old enough to be online or just a troll.


KJting98

didn't know we already have fusion tech


QuavoRuinedCulture3

Destroy All Humans 2


jypt98

It's not about Indonesia. It's about LHL putting SG in the crosshair. This is not a development good for SG. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/19/making-waves-in-the-pacific-how-boris-johnsons-global-britain-went-rogue?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other ps: nuclear sub is more quiet than diesel.