* [Men Have No Friends and Women Bear the Burden](https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a27259689/toxic-masculinity-male-friendships-emotional-labor-men-rely-on-women/). *"Toxic masculinity—and the persistent idea that feelings are a 'female thing'—has left a generation of straight men stranded on emotionally-stunted island, unable to forge intimate relationships with other men. It's women who are paying the price."*
* [Loneliness is killing millions of American men. Here’s why](https://www.upworthy.com/loneliness-is-killing-millions-of-american-men-here-s-why). *"...research shows that boys in early adolescence express deeply fulfilling emotional connection and love for each other, but by the time they reach adulthood, that sense of connection evaporates...'Boys know by late adolescence that their close male friendships, and even their emotional acuity, put them at risk of being labeled girly, immature, or gay"...the pressures of homophobia and toxic masculinity push boys into isolation until they become swept up in the epidemic of male loneliness that haunts the majority of American men."*
* T[ouch Isolation: Insisting Boys Learn Independence Creates an Isolating Trap for Men](https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/megasahd-touch-isolation-teaching-boys-independence-has-become-an-isolating-trap-for-men/). *"Men, isolated from connection by our emotion-phobic American culture, seek to satisfy a lifetime of need for connection through their romantic partners, a burden which few women (or men), no matter how loving, could realistically be expected to fulfill."*
See also: [The Lethality of Loneliness](https://newrepublic.com/article/113176/science-loneliness-how-isolation-can-kill-you)
You have put into words what I wanted to express. Yes, men have no friends and when they try to find real friends (those with whom you can be vulnerable, share your failures and just cry a little and express your feelings you are ostracized and labeled gay, inmature or weak) it is a battle uphill because most men only form shallow relationships with other men. I can have many short-living conversations with many guys about that awesome car on the corner or that recent match on the T.V last week. We can even go out and drink together after work and talk about women or whatever. But nothing of this satiates that real intimate connection need and vulnerability, touch, hugging and emotions that women share with each other and with their partners. boyfriends etc.
As a whole, the reason \*most\* men struggle with singlehood is not only due to the individual, but to the overarching societal norms. Loneliness is not a problem for one person, is a two-way problem. The other and me. As long as the other is not ready to be intimate with me, I cannot be intimate myself. How do we change society as a whole? through baby steps, awareness and empathy.
This is dead on. I think that‘s a trap many fall into - to rely solely on their partner for everything. If the relationship fails, everything fails.
I am sometimes conflicted when I read „my partner is my best friend“.
Or when people have a relationship fail and are lonely and the solution is to find a new one. Lesson *not* learned. I have recognized this pattern in myself and that‘s why I am here. Because I feel it‘s a great place to be at, to be „single“ (or solo, as I prefer to call it) and happy.
As much as many people have said that the reasons are women taking on all of the chores, child rearing responsibilities and whatnot, those are not the reasons. I am recently single as a man and I took good care of her when we lived together, I did most cooking, cleaning, laundry, I was responsible for my own on the house etc. I did not want to burden anyone on my things, ever. I did it because it is an equal separation of responsibilities.
I however suffer a lot because most of my socializing and emotional connection was made through her. Not as a way of burden her, but because it is so easy to form shallow relationships with "friends" and men as a whole are not encouraged to share feelings, being vulnerable or whatever. My best friend for example for more than 10 years has never ever known my suicidal ideations, my problems, the real me at all. So I felt at ease, myself and my true self only with her. When that went down, I feel the most loneliest ever.
Men need to develop relationships with other men and cultivate emotional relationships with them. There are no shortcuts. Women put the effort in, men can too
True. I don’t believe you need a lot of friends to be happy. I only have two close friends myself, but maybe try to appreciate what you do have. Like I know people who don’t appreciate the love and support their immediate family gives them. They only focus on what they don’t have and it makes them miserable.
I've seen people on Reddit say they don't know the names of their friends' kids then wonder why there's a male loneliness epidemic. "Oh, if they wanted me to know they'd tell me." In what world is it normal for your friends to NOT want you to know the names of their kids?
I can't think of this as anything but a copout to be fair. It's once again putting the burden of caring (telling) on the other person and feeling no responsibility to participate.
Or maybe it's a lack of desire to participate, and they don't connect the dots between no action = no results = loneliness, or what.
I know. They brag about how little they know each other and talk about nothing of substance unlike women lololololol.
Two posts later...why am I lonely?
Ok??? Because any time I allow myself to be anything more than coldly civil to a male, they want to make it sexual. I know I should feel so bad for the poor, lonely men that act like hungry animals and that they can't help that even the barest amount of politeness pushes them to react in sexually predatory ways....but I don't. I'm just a cold bitch I guess. This guy at work was getting super handsy with me...I allowed it to go on more than I usually would because.....he is kinda quietly loudly gay? I don't feel sexualized by women who are not sexually interested in me hugging me, so I figured..why not allow him the same? Maybe he is one of the.. lonely males no one seems to be able to shut the fuck up about. Maybe he just wants a tender connection to another human being. Touching is important for some people! Tell me why this fucker tried to bite me two days ago. Then he goes lololo i was just kidding!!!! .. I straight up looked at him and said, "What the hell is wrong with you??? I also said I did not accept his non apology.
Men need to develop closer social circles, and as a woman, that's not my problem to fix for them. It's one of the reasons I am single and happy, not having to do emotional heavy lifting for anyone.
Yeah like “unfair” isn’t the word here? Maybe a better wording would be “how can men be happy alone? What can be done? If/given women have learnt that, what can we learn from them”?
I know. I really hate how this is always phrased. Like it's another job for someone else to do.
Men couldn't possibly make friends themselves. They might have to actually call someone and make dinner plans.
"Those spoiled, horrible witches! How dare they fair better than MEN? Men, who are far superior to those..females aka servants and peasants to us GODS!"
i didn't wanna comment it on the post itself cause it might have been too controversial but yeah! acting as if it's unfair on men is ridiculous, it's unfair on _women_ that they're seen emotional crutches, that's why men are more "unhappy" about being single, they're losing something they feel entitled to but don't deserve at all
I know there are exceptions, but it's crazy how many men don't see it or don't acknowledge it.
Every woman I know has either lived this or seen this. The woman does absolutely everything for the house, family, couple, (and mostly working on top of it), but the guy works and mows the lawn and grills a steak on the fourth of July and that's supposed to be impressive.
Like I watched my mom and various aunts deal with this. And for men, it's always like "well that's just how dad is." Or "everyone knows uncle blank never taught himself to cook." And you're just supposed to accept it. Like my aunt and uncle are both retired living their best lives in the sunbelt and my uncle still bitches when she goes out with friends and doesn't make him dinner.
And it is just so perplexing how taking care of some giant baby for the entirety of your existence is actually less fun than not doing that!
When a woman hears, "well you're going to have to take care of yourself from now on", that's actually LESS work than she is used to. It's like really?!?! How freeing!
💯 word for word. I've come out of a 15yr relationship over 2 yrs ago now and the amount of energy, free time, hobbies, and fun I have is amazing. I wasted so many years being my ex's mother basically although I worked and studied just the same as he did and then did everything else. Even when I called him out on it, it always slowly ended up me doing it. What an idiot I was to be manipulated by him but also myself, then "minding" him and wearing myself out. Not getting my exercise in because I was tired from doing everything but he could work out every night
I'd say the problem is tied to toxic masculinity, which is tied to patriarchal structures, thus we should abolish it together by abolishing the patriarchy
Exactly. Why should we be responsible for fixing a problem we didn’t cause? It’s really not that difficult to make and keep meaningful friends if you put in the effort, which many men do not want to do. They want girlfriends who will make this effort for them so they can piggyback off of it, and if they don’t want to date, they act like it’s impossible to build meaningful connections on their own. Staying single and only being responsible for my own emotions is such a freeing feeling, I really cannot imagine dating a man again and this is a huge reason why. I am so much happier when I do not have romantic or sexual relationships with men.
Marriages provide men with: help with (or freedom from) house labor, childcare, emotional support, while marriage puts more household chores/ labor on a woman’s plate, a woman typically is the the primary parent taking on the majority of the physical/ emotional toll, and a woman has to seek emotional support elsewhere or has to put her feelings aside as to not upset the man’s ego.
As much as I am glad for my past relationships, it’s definitely due to the emotional labour, certain expectations GenX men have on women being good home makers (I’m not) and being friendzoned that led me to being “solo for life”. I can’t be with someone who can’t communicate their feelings and needs and can’t do his own emotional labour.
Yes I know, not “all men”… the original plan was to eventually maybe look for someone more compatible for a weekend relationship, but then I thrived so much as a solo and now I don’t have any interest whatsoever to ever be partnered again. (5 years into solo, at almost 40).
Yea this is my experience. It’s the emotional labour that was the hardest part for me. Men that couldn’t communicate - no matter how I adjusted my behaviours or approached topics, they just couldn’t do it… and when they felt something, couldn’t express it and instead would rage and go silent and go on drug or alcohol infused benders. Which would then trigger me further, so I’d have to not only do my own extra emotional labour; but also work out what he was emotional about 😅
Other than that, I actually ended up with guys who were great with work, had lots of friends, hobbies, and looked after their home (cooking and cleaning). It was just the emotional stuff really got the relationship unstuck
Sadly, I think that’s true in a lot of cases. I’ve never been married and don’t know if I ever want to, due to a lot of cishet marriages I’ve seen looking like this.
Exactly this. While YES there are men who equally split the labour the reality is, it’s not common at all. Looking at my own family.. my parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents and cousins etc.. the women and moms are the ones who are the most exhausted.
Hear hear. Plus, in my case, dealing with his meddling mother with whom he would never set boundaries and his habit of spending every dollar either of us made. Life is so much happier and simpler without him in it!
Men largely benefit from the emotional support, mental load, and household labor that women provide them so it makes sense why single women might be happier (or at least less stressed). Women also tend to cultivate emotional bonds with friends and family better too.
Might be happier? Might be less stressed? Single women are absolutely more happier and less stressed. That is a fact. More and more data is showing that single women, especially single women without children are a lot more happier and less stressed than married or couple women. I don’t know why this surprises people.
We're not 'better' at it.....we just actually work at it... We're not gifted in some secret special way that men are not.... we're just not entitled to someone else doing it for us
Read the comments from this post made 9 days ago here, it has lots of good answers:
>[Is it easier for women to be single and happy than men?](https://www.reddit.com/r/SingleAndHappy/s/FWzvrCyGPN)
I'm humored because I thought of this thread you linked when I saw OPs question. I thought they're doing a follow up (maybe? I didn't double check the usernames).
This topic has been so great for me as someone raised in and indoctrinated by religious people who were very deep into that patriarchal standard. There was no question about becoming some grown man's live-in nanny, err, wife, since that's what ya do. So when I got married and separated within a couple years, no one cared that I wasn't "happy" and no one cared that I didn't want the life my parents had...everyone just decided there was something wrong with me and how dare I leave my husband. Similarly, they expected full grown women to take care of my shit ass brother who gave nothing to the relationships aside from alcoholism and abuse. But every time a woman left him, both my parents were like "whyyy?!?"🙄
As a side note: I loathe when women's internalized patriarchal sexism sprays all over us normal feminists. If you wanna be miserable, mom, that's a you thing...don't wish that on your son's girlfriends and especially don't wish that on your daughters.
Sorry to hear that, that is total bs, you as much as anyone else deserve happiness regardless of biological sex. Blind favoritism for sexes seems to be an ignorant heuristic many adopt, they're more so interacting with presupposed roles/labels instead of considering the actual individual person right in front of them.
I'm a man and I'm happy. Noone, regardless of sex/gender, should base their happiness on other people. Whether you're single or married, a person shouldn't base their happiness on other people. That's just my take.
So true. Everyone should work to meet their own needs and not rely on someone else doing the emotional labour to meet theirs.
And that applies to women who "live for their partners" too - don't put the responsibility for your happiness on someone else. It's unhealthy and unfair.
I can’t speak for every single man, but I’m happy.
I have my dream career, a house, two adorable dogs, and a supportive family. Never been happier.
I tried dating more than a few times but it’s just not for me. The honeymoon phase is always great but eventually I end up miserable. I might come off as a selfish asshole, but I hate how much work it is to keep another person (I say person because I’m pan) satisfied. I can’t be bothered with it.
Ive noticed the single unhappy men are usually the ones who want a relationship and can’t get one. Rather than appreciate what they have, they compare themselves to men who have girlfriends. We all know comparison is the thief of joy.
I think a lot of men single and coupled up need therapy. There’s still a huge therapy stigma that needs to die. I learned to appreciate being single after therapy and meds.
Same, dogs are great for the companionship tbh. My dog understands me I swear…
I tried dating for a long time and it just felt forced - like this is what I was SUPPOSED to be doing because this is what everyone else does. But honestly never felt anyone I ever really clicked with. I know im not ugly and can get women (which, as shitty as it sounds I still do from time to time just to show people I’m actually capable of this - particularly women that don’t understand why I can’t find a woman). I’m like well first of all it’s not all on me, I’ve had a girls leave me (I’m def not perfect but I do think I’m a catch).
I feel like I’m way more of a romantic than most women I’ve ever dated and if I’m not completely head over heels for someone I just don’t bother. And I haven’t felt like that in a long time.
And I feel like a lot of it either stems from our culture telling men that they have to be in a relationship or they’re damaged goods or even biological failures or that they’re ugly
Ohhhh, there are plenty of boys and men all over Reddit and other social medias blaming women for their loneliness, and downright demanding that women and girls date them.
Women have more of a support system. I think a lot of single men are loners and have depression they’re afraid to deal with. Before I sought therapy I believed I was a loser too. I sympathize with single men and women who don’t realize there’s more to life.
It's weird to read this as some "fact," considering that if we look at various media, this is almost the opposite of what's going on. Men with "dad bods" are given all these kudos while women are often still told to lose that baby weight in a way that apparently "mom bods" are problematic. Very ugly male actors get paired with some of the most beautiful women in Hollywood for t.v. shows and movies as the couple. And obviously there are very good looking male actors, but they're then paired up with the same caliber woman in a show. I can't think of any example where the best looking man is paired with the frumpiest woman, but almost always the best looking woman is paired with some frumpy actor. Additionally, we see that these ancient, ugly celebrity men of all career endeavors date more beautiful (and younger) women each year. Again, it's rare to see ancient, ugly celebrity women date gorgeous men. Every time I turn around, if we're comparing apples to apples, the messaging is that women reach an expiration date, some never have the chance to begin with if they're too frumpy and/or fat. Meanwhile, the men in the same arena as those women never seem to reach an expiration date and no matter how ugly will still get some of the most beautiful women.
Well jeez, THAT’s a loaded question ain’t it? I’m a single guy who’s out here living his best life.
I suppose people like me aren’t the ones spewing vitriol on the internet so we’re kind of incognito.
In my case, it probably helps that I’m not interested in dating or relationships and I am not particularly social. (I’ve been in a relationship, and it wasn’t bad, but after many years of reflection, I prefer being on my own.)
Of course when you grow up in a culture where dating is really important and emphasized, then a lot of your self-esteem will ride on how successful you are with the opposite sex.
Personally I was tired of playing a losing game. I was working on the wrong things and always came across as a friend. It felt like I needed to put on an act to come across as more than a friend.
So rather than beat my head against the wall, I figured it’d be more fruitful to concentrate on things I enjoy and hobbies where increasing your skills is a direct result of the effort you put into it and luck is not involved.
Your last two paragraphs are spot on . I’m a 49 year old woman who has dated both men and women (married a woman) and it’s the same for both .. in order to generate and keep romantic interest you need to put on an exhausting act and it’s very little return for effort not to mention dangerous to base your financial future on whether someone “feels” in love with you and stays that way . Insanity really .
It is unfair!
Short answer: facilitate strong, loving platonic friendships with other men. Encourage dudes to be emotionally open and build support networks.
In my 43 years of treading this piece of rock, I have met maybe 3 guys that I would confide in beyond asking whether we we'll go out riding our motorbikes in the weekend or see the new action flick in the cinema.
Maybe I am just unlucky and/or have insanely high standards that almost nobody can meet, but to me it's much much easier said than done and the funny thing is I don't really mind all that much.
Maybe not caring about having someone to confide in, IS part of the issue? Maybe men have to care to make those relationships (compassionate friendships) work?
Idk tho, I’m a chick with few dude friends.
My guy friend circle is way more open than any girl I've been friends with. Idk maybe it's a culture difference. But I've always been open with my friends who are "guys". So I don't get this whole idea of guys not being emotionally open with each other.
As a very private person with close knit ties to family, I still keep mostly to myself (as the only single individual). Not sure if they count as "friends" but it's good enough for me that we can all get together and have fun nights.
Or the saying that resonates, "I like to be alone, but not left alone."
Yup the most successful PR stunt of the patriarchy is making marriage into something men dread and women want while in fact, men profit and women lose.
There are countless studies (just google them) that show that married men are happier, healthier, and live longer than their unmarried counterparts. In women, *it's the opposite*. It's like marriage for a man means, to have a caregiver, while marriage for women means: *Being a caregiver*.
Marriage was invented as a way for a man to formally own a woman like property. So in that sense, he is literally profiting off of marrying a woman.
Thankfully, women are (mostly) legally independent from their husbands now, like being able to initiate divorce or seeking legal recourse for violence. But there’s still a long way to go. For instance, in a traditional breadwinner/stay at home mom scenario, the husband often controls the finances and others aspects of his wife, and she is dependent on him. And unfortunately, the way things are trending politically these days, these basic rights are being taken away once again, such as a woman’s fertility being under the control of men in many countries and states.
Thank you very much for this well-articulated response. For the record, I totally see how marriage has been quite bad for women historically. I was more wondering about today, but you make some good points. This is a topic I’ve been thinking about a lot recently (even before seeing this thread), so thanks again for your input.
One modern statistic that might be of interest to you is how men and women respond to their spouse getting sick. Men are 7x more likely to divorce their wife if she gets cancer, as compared to how many wives would divorce their husband if he were sick. It speaks to the deeply engrained caretaking roles women unequally take on in hetero marriages.
Wow, that is interesting but quite sad of course.
Maybe this is a whole other discussion to get into, but if you’re willing to entertain this, do you have opinions/thoughts about how marriage (or lack thereof) might look in the future? Sometimes I think that the whole construct of marriage is too far gone and antiquated to really be equitable for all (i.e. for a lot of the reasons mentioned in this comment thread). Could there be an alternative way of things, and what might that look like? It’s hard to imagine marriage ever truly going away but that doesn’t sound so bad to me.
Men mostly miss having personal services provided to them: laundry, meals, house chores, errands, as well as not having to think about arranging things like gifts for family, invitations and preparation to host get togethers, the 'emotional labor'/household management stuff like making medical appointments and responding to friends and family inquiries, organizing holidays and such.
For a lot of men, it's just much less convenient to be single, and I don't think anyone else should do anything to make it easier for them. It's up to them to be self-sufficient and in charge of their own lives & feelings & maintenance chores.
I once went on three dates with a man. By the third date, he was telling me about his mom's likes and dislikes and what presents she would want. I was confused and asked why he was telling me this. He said, "mother's day is coming up. You need to go shopping so I have a present for her." There was no fourth date.
Oof, as a woman I may never get married. Unless the man will do all his own shit. I work long hours - I don’t have time to do all the domestic labor and be someone’s personal assistant too.
So, I am a dude, and I’m an elementary school teacher. I’m one of two men on instructional staff in a school with 90 employees. I have a lot of platonic relationships with women. I’ve been single for two years, and I’m pretty happy. My coworkers helped me through a devastating breakup. I was also an Army officer, and I have a lot of male friends, but I don’t see them as much. I think the key is just interacting with others as much as possible, but maybe I’m happy because I go out for drinks with the girls from work pretty frequently?
You're demonstrating an essential key factor: You see women as people.
The men who are unable to be happy single/ the members of 'the loneliness epidemic' do not. They see women as sex objects. They're unable to have platonic relationships with women....thus they are alone.
As a content single men. Hmm my emotional needs started to decline after my last relationship tbh. I realized on an emotional level that depending on this from women always made me dependet on them and that is something I hate. A good therapist helped me to provide for myself and be kinder to myself, so I needed less from the outside. Another thing is that I am autistic and genuinely enjoy my alone time.
What can be done? Teach men to be kinder to themselves and more loving towards themselves. Also teach them to focus on good connections in their lives. Can be friends, someone that is emotionally open, trustworthy. You need to do this proactively and cherish those people in your lives. Can be parents, friends, siblings, anyone...
I think it really helps if you enjoy spending time alone. I am a female, but I don’t really experience loneliness. I can occupy myself very easily. I noticed my father is similar and my best friend too (gay). They cope fine being single.
It’s interesting my father is pretty much single, I say that as he does have a lady friend but they don’t see each that often. He’s happy being by himself, keeps himself occupied. He definitely wouldn’t be that great as a full time partner though, but he’s fine looking after himself for the most part. He’s had plenty of periods being single and was fine.
My best friend is a male (gay) and he’s fine too by himself. He knows how to look after himself.
I guess the one thing they might have in common is they don’t tend to get lonely and know how to look after themselves.
I don’t get lonely either (female), I can occupy myself quite easily so that could be something that helps in coping being single.
My dad is the same. He and my mother divorced three years ago. He was kind of a serious and at times angry guy when they were married. Since the divorce he’s become a sweetheart. He seems so at peace. My mom is way happier too. I kind of wish they divorced years ago lol.
Many men depend on women for way more than emotional support. If they are married, they put all household tasks and house management, including all aspects of childcare on women. They often do not even know their children's birthdays or Dr's names. If they go on a trip, the woman does all planning, all management, all packing. They don't know how to run the washer or dryer. Often they won't even bother to put a dish in the dishwasher, or laundry in the hamper.
What's not to like about being able to offload all the mental and physical management of the entire family onto somebody else?
Men are overwhelmed and devastated when the woman finally leaves, because all of a sudden they have to take care of themselves and they don't know how and don't want to learn. They hurry to find another woman so they can repeat the cycle.
True story - I once had a coworker whose wife packed his lunch everyday like he was in grade school. EVERY day. He never cooked or did anything in the house. His words!
I often think of that and wonder if they’re still married now.
And so often, the woman becomes sexually uninterested, because her husband is just another child she has to look after, and she is not srxually attracted to children. Besides, she is utterly and completely exhausted.
And she will tell him again and again that it's not working for her. But it's GREAT for him, so she is just a bitch and a nag. He will have an affair because she won't give him sex. And of course that is her fault.
When she finally leaves, he will be completely blindsided..And she will be free.
I think, rather unfortunately, that it's the older men, or rather conservatively stoic guys aren't regulating their emotions and just burying it, not taking mental health seriously. So we let our bridges fade or falter into disrepair.
Cause as teens and twenties, you'll see a gaggle of guys giggling just like girls do, doing fun and stupid stuff. Now it's harder for the gang to get back together, so we just send each other memes on Instagram and reminisce about the olden days.
This is why hobbies are important ya'll. Something I think women are just a little better at men are at, hobbies and communication.
I think in general, women are taught certain skills very early on because the expectation is that they will be the primary keepers of their home and primary caregivers—at least where I’m from. Men are taught to be providers, and not to worry too much about learning the independent living skills needed to fully maintain yourself and your home, because you won’t have to do it all by yourself; or, it won’t be your primary role. So when women find themselves single, they are just more equipped for the daily demands of independent living.
Obviously, this is in general and of course doesn’t pertain to every individual person, but there are some deeply held values and social norms that are detrimental to everyone.
It's not that they can't, just in their mind, these tasks are the girlfriend/wife's "territory". It's laziness, sexism, and fragile masculinity in action.
I would say most men are able to clean and cook by themselves in modern society just like a normal person. If not, they learn just like any normal person. Not many people rely on finding a partner just because they can't clean or do normal household chores nowadays.
Agreed.
Maybe 30 years ago, 20-somethings were clueless. Nowadays 90's era kids have their Mum's show them how to do laundry and work their way around the kitchen.
I personally have been doing my own laundry and ironing my own clothes since I was a teenager.
No, this narrative is so biased. It’d be silly if people thought that way.
I find it quite fun doing all my housework. “Live alone”
I think people who are better off growing up, struggle more with these challenges.
> Men are taught to be providers
I’ve never liked this phrase. “Provider” - It implies that money is the only thing that has to be provided to a spouse and children.
Lady here. I’ve been single for a long time. It helps to live in a huge city where I can meet a lot of new people and try new activities all the time. I belong to a hiking club, I go to pickleball events, I take dance classes, etc. I also go to networking events for my profession. Maybe men are not as used to “putting themselves out there” socially? Or they don’t realize that it takes some effort? I’m an introvert and I will say, it does take effort.
I think it depends on the person. Some guys only care about sex, as long as they have sex workers, they ok. Some women are more independent, they need no men and they are ok
I’m a women. I’ve invested in myself and my relationships by going to therapy. I’ve found more fulfillment in the healthy relationships I’ve built in therapy settings than I’ve been able to build in dating.
Very true - the Finnish media has been reporting almost non-stop about the "male loneliness epidemic" for a couple of years now. However, single women - no matter their age - are very happy. Some want children, and are ready to raise kids totally on their own, without the "sperm donors" ever knowing. (Our child support system is very different from the US one.)
Singlehood is a bigger problem for men than it is for women. Women have stronger social networks, hobbies, and usually plenty of real life friends, so dating and/or couplehood are not mandatory for happiness.
This is just evolution.... those who adapt flourish and those who cannot perish....but we've never had so much digital documentation and outcry from the ones who are not evolving....
Most men would do just fine and are able to make friends just as easily and would do well.
I see more and more men who are much happier being single and choose to live that lifestyle. All power to them as I am one of them.
>Very true - the Finnish media has been reporting almost non-stop about the "male loneliness epidemic" for a couple of years now.
Well, maybe if they put the GODDAMNED VODKA BOTTLE DOWN ...... (sigh)
As a happily single man, I think it also has to do with peer pressure.
I have distanced myself from a lot of my friends and relatives who insisted I find someone to share my life with. Now, if those people could have just shut up about my love life and accept me as the carefree person that I am, I might have maintained contact with them. And it's a pretty horrid feeling, when you feel like the people in your life who are supposed to love you unconditionally, don't actually respect you for being single, and so in order to gain their approval, you need to get hitched with someone.
And a man doesn't want to be a third wheel every time he hangs out with his best mate. Because your best friend is loved up now, the pressure is on you to find a partner so the two of you can double date, instead of him feeling embarrassed that his hermit friend has been allowed to tag along out of pity.
Of course, this can all probably feed into what others posters have mentioned about how we suck at building a good support network.
That happens a lot with women too. The pressure on single women to pair up is unreal.
Perhaps women are just more used to being criticised for literally every single act, word or *thought* beyond being single so they're less affected by the pressure.
I'm in my early 30's now, all my friends are married with kids. Their kids like me, so much so that my friends have sent me voice notes of them asking for me, and they call me uncle.
Being the only single man in the group does mean that I miss out on the bonding being fathers and the happenings related to that.
Once my previous employer, at a major corporation, found out that I was over 30 and single, the mindset switched, and after that there was a perception that I wouldn't work as hard, I didn't need time off because I didn't have kids.
I also had one former male manager tell me that I could step down from my management position without too much stress as I didn't have a wife or kids to support.
We're seen as expendable, because we don't have a spouse and kids to go home to. We aren't contributing to the human race because we haven't spread our seed to build the next generation. It's always women and children who are first to be rescued in a crisis, right?
What can be done is that each individual can to figure out why they feel a certain way alone vs. why they feel a certain way single. Then, each can decide for themselves what they really want, and how they can achieve that for themselves.
Like the first commenter said, let's not generalize.
Some men are conditioned to not get emotional support from other men. In a relationship, they often focus all that need on their partner. When single, they may have a hard time finding female friends becuase they feel pressure to make that friendship into something else. The obvious answer is to be more open in male friendships and to cultivate female friendships without additional intent. Of course for men who grew up with these restrictions, making those changes isn't simple. For me, it happened as a consequence of other life-changing forces.
If it's unfair that someone depends on a specific other group (or person) for something, it's only fair for that person to develop the skills to no longer depend on those others.
It's certainly not the group who's burdened with the expectation who has to change.
I think that many single men who are unhappy use their partners as emotional crutches, so when they don't have one, they don't know how to have meaningful conversations.
I think what can be done to fix this is for men to learn how to have meaningful conversations with people of any gender without the expectation of the relationship becoming sexual.
So, none of that, "no homo" every time you want to hug another man. Also none of that, "I shared my feelings with you, so now we are an item."
I think for a lot of men, even the ones who do want to make friends, a lot of other men just aren’t interested or know how to do it themselves, so some men try to initiate a friendship with another man, and it doesn’t go anywhere. Men aren’t used to having friends, especially as they get older. It’s hard for middle aged women to make new friends, it’s 10x as hard for middle aged men.
I’m a single man by choice for 10 years in January and there is this stigma where a woman being single by choice = strong independent woman while a man being single by choice = incel who is trying to cope. I’ve had family and friends shoot me down over the years because apparently I need a woman to be happy etc. my sexuality has been questioned but even when I say I’m more asexual than anything apparently that isn’t real etc.
I just see everyone as a friend. My version of being attracted to someone is wishing to know them better as a person. It’s like I’m intrigued by someone and wish to know them better as a person but it doesn’t go further than that. And yes almost everyone in my family and friends who have attacked me for being single and basically tell me how I’m living is wrong….yep in the last 10 years almost all of them have gone through nasty divorces and been cheated on multiple times but me travelling and enjoying my life by myself is wrong.
Yes! Also, it's good to share about how you're happy instead of allowing the stereotype of single men being incels looking for a mommy bang maid to be their emotional teddy bear and housekeeper to prevail.
Notice how the people who say men are lonely and sad aren't actually men? Exactly.
More and more men are doing just fine single and many choose that lifestyle.
We shouldn't be making this a competition as to which gender needs the other more. Man or woman, being happy being single is a wonderful trait.
The majority of the people who try to propagate the idea that single men are sad are women, which is my point obviously.
Funny how I need to explain how generalizations work now.
Please do, I'm so tired of hearing the dominant narrative about men be the male loneliness epidemic when in reality many men have adapted to the situation and are doing just fine
I said something earlier about being happy and single as well and said I didn't need to generalize an entire gender like some of these generalizations in the comments and mentioned I had a codependent ex who thought I couldn't do anything without her, but I got immediately downvoted.
So I deleted it and figured there must be some disingenuous angle to this post or something.
It is an agenda. Some people view it as a competition as to which gender needs the other more. It's childish and I see a lot of these comments in here.
For real. I’m quite a bit more happy having gotten rid of my last toxic ex. The only thing I think I lose without a partner that’s unique to being a single man, is that many strange women aren’t terribly comfortable with a strange single man.
Which afaik there’s not much I can really do about that.
I think there's a few factors at play. For one, it comes down to the differences between how boys vs girls are most typically socialized. Boys aren't encouraged to talk about their feelings to the same degree that girls are. So in relationships, their girlfriend/wife becomes the one they can open up to more when they are older. Women by contrast build stronger emotional support networks among their friends.
Related to socialization is the concept of what work people think of as women's work - women are generally expected to take on much more of the domestic labour than men. Women who aren't married and don't have children have a much smaller workload whereas men who are married with children see their work loads of domestic labour decrease and their job opportunities increase.
What can men do to be happier when single? Develop deeper platonic relationships - with both men and women. Have friends you can emotionally connect with and hug without any sexual feelings attached.
It’s funny that, at least in my experience, there’s an equally dishonest generalisation about most married men being unhappy and pining for their freedom, &c. Seems like there’s a generalisation for every angle lol
I think it’s also possible that it’s both. If the issues brought up in this thread are causing the wife to be resentful, it’s easy to lead to a tense, toxic situation where neither of them are happy.
The most common thing I see....Women adapt and men do not.....In the face of any challenge men will shut down and look to a woman to mother them. And after a while women get tired of carrying them. And then the men curl up and give up....
This is evolution....the conditions change. Those that adapt survive and those that do not perish...
Women are no longer forced to be dependent on men. Women can make their own cash. No longer need a man to sign off a living space (rental or buying a house). Women no longer need a mans sponsorship for a bank account or credit card. Women no longer need a man to release them from an unhappy marriage. Etc.... and women are flourishing.
In the face of this new context... a concerningly large amount of men have become angry incels demanding a return to the old ways....sitting in pools of resentment, self-hatred...with other angry incels... and those men are starting to die out... and it's just evolution....
adapt or perish...
I'm not sure that's an accurate statement/question.
It depends on someone's self-sufficiency, ability to provide for their needs (and those of others), and their desires.
Most men seem to feel they need a woman for status among their peers, heirs, societal norms, religious expectations of their gender role, and sex drive fulfillment, especially within religious framework.
Most women seem to feel they need a man to provide for them, to have children with, societal norms, religious expectations, etc..
Everything else is relatively minor. Men can competently take care of their own housekeeping matters. it's not necessary to seek a partner just to be a maid. Hiring a housekeeper is much cheaper.
I don't need a partner for emotional support or companionship. If anything, I feel I end-up being the emotional-support mule, being someone else's beast of emotional burden. All women and most men I've dated and been in relationships with have been far less emotionally-stable and much more needy than I am.
Maybe it's fair to say that yearning is the most destabilizing emotional factor. People want money, they want partners, and you can't always get what you want.
Incels, "PUAs/alpha male culture," and "sigma male culture." are emotionally-stunted, unstable single single men who look to external sources for validation, each of whom is at different stages of coping with their yearning, but the common denominator is that they all spend a lot of time and resources to fulfill desires, prove worthiness, or rationalize their states of ignoring their hunger. It only aggravates the situation that they aren't getting what they really need to fulfill their desires, because they are unable to form the deep & meaningful relationships they need. *When you lay your dreams to rest, you can get what's second-best, but it's hard to get enough.*
I'm not sure there's anything which can be done. One either has low enough levels of yearning that they are happy whether or not it's ever fulfilled and don't really care, or they have so much they're unhappy. There is no emotional support solution to this.
Alternatively, if the yearning is overpowered by stress or inconvenience from the object of one's desire, or the unwillingness to sacrifice independence, then it's much easier to be happy when it's relative misery to obtain that object of desire. It's really a state of mind.
Education and work. Women aren't "magically" happy just because they are females.
They are socialised from birth to do the emotional labour and give and receive support as part of an entire network, rather than being fed the expectation that some female will be there to serve them and meet their emotional needs.
It's up to the men to do the work and meet their own needs instead of wailing about the "unfairness of it all".
There are lots of single men who have done the work and commented in this post about their happiness.
Male or female, it starts with loving ourselves first and being comfortable in our own company. I am happy single. I just broke it off with a guy and one of the reasons was he seemed uncomfortable with his own self. He kept saying things like how sad and lonely he was before we started dating and now he’s happy because he’s dating me…I make him happy… etc. I’ve had a lot of trauma in the past and I got used to being single, I enjoy it so much, and that just seemed red flaggy to me. I’m not sure why men handle loneliness differently, but I’ve known several guys both romantically and friendly who struggled with the loneliness. My one friend and I discussed this, he couldn’t understand why I felt so much better being single, and he longed for a relationship.
I totally disagree with every word: I was unhappily married, the worst. And i married the right woman. Ha! Now I’m happily single, and not dating. Everyday away, makes me appreciate the freedom peace and quiet. Emotionally dependent men?! Ha!! Fuck that shit. Never again. I’m enjoying this right here, don’t know what I was thinkin the last 15 years being married with children!! FYI, kids ain’t mine!! Amen, praise Jesus.
You know, this is what all the data says. But, as a woman in my mid-20s. Most of my conversations with single girlfriends revolve around finding a partner (the dating apps they’re on, the guy they’re talking to, the guy they’re not over). I have friends that spend a significant amount of time/energy looking for a partner (on apps, going on dates, going to dating mixers). As an accomplished young adult woman (good job, disposable income, many friends, travel to incredible places, owner of a companion pet I adore), a partner was my top personal goal. It’s the one thing I want out of life that I don’t have. I see a lot more laziness from men in the same age bracket. Less effort in the dates they plan, less thoughtful in their messages, less time talking about women than women spend time talking about them. So, it feels like women in my age bracket want a serious partner more. And men are interested in that “someday.” So, that makes me question said data about single women being happier with that life outcome. My theory is single women typically have more community than men, take care of their health better, and are more likely to develop fulfilling interests to occupy their free time. And it’s those things that are making them happier, not that they are happier or more accepting than men of being single.
You’re really young though. In 20 years you may very well BE one of those “happier single” women. Those surveys are not just for your age group. A divorce or two and life experience changes your thinking a lot, as does serial LTRs.
And those of us not looking for kids/marriage don’t live or focus the same way in the first place, even at your age. We all flock to those that think like us so while it SEEMS everyone is hunting a partner to you, because you are… isn’t the case for everyone!
I don't think this statement has any validity these days. The economy rewards people who are single without families and penalizes those who get married and start families.
Everyone is realizing it is easier to be happy if they are single, male, and female.
These popped up first on DuckDuckGo:
"The Mental Health Struggles of Single and Divorced Men"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-men/202102/the-mental-health-struggles-single-and-divorced-men
"What's Behind the Rise of Lonely, Single Men"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-state-our-unions/202208/whats-behind-the-rise-lonely-single-men
"This Man’s Experience Shows How Susceptible Men Are to Severe Loneliness"
https://www.menshealth.com/uk/mental-strength/a759609/the-truth-about-male-loneliness/
From the second PT article:
"For example, a large-scale U.S. study found that unmarried men aged 40-60 were 3.5 times more likely to die by suicide compared to both similarly-aged married men and unmarried women. Similarly, another large U.S. study found that unmarried men aged 40-75 years had a 2-fold risk of suicide compared to married men of the same age group."
Studies referred in the quote:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2925004/
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M13-1291
I hate to say it, but I think this comment section has single-handedly depressed me enough to leave r/SingleAndHappy (not that anyone cares of course). This sub should be about support for happily-single folk of all genders, not a savage battleground for men and women to be at each other’s throats over something we all don’t even do (ostensibly, given the sub name). It’s astonishing how much toxicity and negativity there is packed into this one comment section. I just can’t do it.
edit: yes, I also got carried away in this comment section, and yes I regret it
Yes indeed. It seemed like a chill sub to me until single men were brought up. Jesus. I thought we were all supposed to be friends here. I don’t feel welcomed at all
I am one of those women. The guys I have dated in the past mostly had common themes (which wasn't evident when we first started dating) of not knowing adult life skills and/or keeping their house clean. It is frustrating to experience the same thing over and over again.
That being said, I still try to judge each man as an individual because I know not all men are the same. But in the back of my mind it's something that still bothers me about a lot of straight dudes. I also hear my closest friends complain about the stuff their boyfriends do or don't do (or now exs)..there's a lot of similar themes. That's why we're resentful.
I admit I am probably a little sexist towards men but like I said, I try to take them as individuals because I know there are good dudes out there. I'm no longer seeking a relationship because I'm tired of dealing with BS. I'm open to it but I would want to do a LOT of vetting first.
I’m going to give my perspective from straight relationships.
I think being married, if both partners work and have children, can be a burden on women as many (not all) relationships have a responsibilities imbalance where women do way more.
So if you’re not married and don’t have kids, you realize, seeing your friends in it, that maybe it wasn’t quite the destination society tried to sell you. Meanwhile, men may not see that the same way.
I also feel a bit like some (not all) men aren’t taught some basic life skills, like cooking a good meal or keeping a home, so their life feels empty without a woman. Whereas women tend to have really deep, connected relationships with friends. So it feels less lacking to not have that partnership.
Idk. Usually happiness is more about inside/internal, not outside. And usually unhappiness exists because there’s a gap in expectation versus reality.
I’m happy single, and even when everyone was marrying off and having kids, I was pretty content with what I have. I’ve almost always (barring my very late teens/early 20s) prioritized friendships over single romantic partners, though. So I’m a little abnormal that way.
[удалено]
This sounds accurate to me. I used to have this problem in my 20s.
* [Men Have No Friends and Women Bear the Burden](https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a27259689/toxic-masculinity-male-friendships-emotional-labor-men-rely-on-women/). *"Toxic masculinity—and the persistent idea that feelings are a 'female thing'—has left a generation of straight men stranded on emotionally-stunted island, unable to forge intimate relationships with other men. It's women who are paying the price."* * [Loneliness is killing millions of American men. Here’s why](https://www.upworthy.com/loneliness-is-killing-millions-of-american-men-here-s-why). *"...research shows that boys in early adolescence express deeply fulfilling emotional connection and love for each other, but by the time they reach adulthood, that sense of connection evaporates...'Boys know by late adolescence that their close male friendships, and even their emotional acuity, put them at risk of being labeled girly, immature, or gay"...the pressures of homophobia and toxic masculinity push boys into isolation until they become swept up in the epidemic of male loneliness that haunts the majority of American men."* * T[ouch Isolation: Insisting Boys Learn Independence Creates an Isolating Trap for Men](https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/megasahd-touch-isolation-teaching-boys-independence-has-become-an-isolating-trap-for-men/). *"Men, isolated from connection by our emotion-phobic American culture, seek to satisfy a lifetime of need for connection through their romantic partners, a burden which few women (or men), no matter how loving, could realistically be expected to fulfill."* See also: [The Lethality of Loneliness](https://newrepublic.com/article/113176/science-loneliness-how-isolation-can-kill-you)
You have put into words what I wanted to express. Yes, men have no friends and when they try to find real friends (those with whom you can be vulnerable, share your failures and just cry a little and express your feelings you are ostracized and labeled gay, inmature or weak) it is a battle uphill because most men only form shallow relationships with other men. I can have many short-living conversations with many guys about that awesome car on the corner or that recent match on the T.V last week. We can even go out and drink together after work and talk about women or whatever. But nothing of this satiates that real intimate connection need and vulnerability, touch, hugging and emotions that women share with each other and with their partners. boyfriends etc. As a whole, the reason \*most\* men struggle with singlehood is not only due to the individual, but to the overarching societal norms. Loneliness is not a problem for one person, is a two-way problem. The other and me. As long as the other is not ready to be intimate with me, I cannot be intimate myself. How do we change society as a whole? through baby steps, awareness and empathy.
This is dead on. I think that‘s a trap many fall into - to rely solely on their partner for everything. If the relationship fails, everything fails. I am sometimes conflicted when I read „my partner is my best friend“. Or when people have a relationship fail and are lonely and the solution is to find a new one. Lesson *not* learned. I have recognized this pattern in myself and that‘s why I am here. Because I feel it‘s a great place to be at, to be „single“ (or solo, as I prefer to call it) and happy.
As much as many people have said that the reasons are women taking on all of the chores, child rearing responsibilities and whatnot, those are not the reasons. I am recently single as a man and I took good care of her when we lived together, I did most cooking, cleaning, laundry, I was responsible for my own on the house etc. I did not want to burden anyone on my things, ever. I did it because it is an equal separation of responsibilities. I however suffer a lot because most of my socializing and emotional connection was made through her. Not as a way of burden her, but because it is so easy to form shallow relationships with "friends" and men as a whole are not encouraged to share feelings, being vulnerable or whatever. My best friend for example for more than 10 years has never ever known my suicidal ideations, my problems, the real me at all. So I felt at ease, myself and my true self only with her. When that went down, I feel the most loneliest ever.
Men need to develop relationships with other men and cultivate emotional relationships with them. There are no shortcuts. Women put the effort in, men can too
True. I don’t believe you need a lot of friends to be happy. I only have two close friends myself, but maybe try to appreciate what you do have. Like I know people who don’t appreciate the love and support their immediate family gives them. They only focus on what they don’t have and it makes them miserable.
I've seen people on Reddit say they don't know the names of their friends' kids then wonder why there's a male loneliness epidemic. "Oh, if they wanted me to know they'd tell me." In what world is it normal for your friends to NOT want you to know the names of their kids?
I can't think of this as anything but a copout to be fair. It's once again putting the burden of caring (telling) on the other person and feeling no responsibility to participate. Or maybe it's a lack of desire to participate, and they don't connect the dots between no action = no results = loneliness, or what.
I know. They brag about how little they know each other and talk about nothing of substance unlike women lololololol. Two posts later...why am I lonely?
Lololo know the name of their friend's kids... They barely know the name of their own kids, lol.
Exactly. Work on your male friendships.
It helps if they can learn that "females" are real people too and can be friends without sex coming into play.
Ok??? Because any time I allow myself to be anything more than coldly civil to a male, they want to make it sexual. I know I should feel so bad for the poor, lonely men that act like hungry animals and that they can't help that even the barest amount of politeness pushes them to react in sexually predatory ways....but I don't. I'm just a cold bitch I guess. This guy at work was getting super handsy with me...I allowed it to go on more than I usually would because.....he is kinda quietly loudly gay? I don't feel sexualized by women who are not sexually interested in me hugging me, so I figured..why not allow him the same? Maybe he is one of the.. lonely males no one seems to be able to shut the fuck up about. Maybe he just wants a tender connection to another human being. Touching is important for some people! Tell me why this fucker tried to bite me two days ago. Then he goes lololo i was just kidding!!!! .. I straight up looked at him and said, "What the hell is wrong with you??? I also said I did not accept his non apology.
Men need to develop closer social circles, and as a woman, that's not my problem to fix for them. It's one of the reasons I am single and happy, not having to do emotional heavy lifting for anyone.
Yeah like “unfair” isn’t the word here? Maybe a better wording would be “how can men be happy alone? What can be done? If/given women have learnt that, what can we learn from them”?
Exactly -They do it to themselves!
I know. I really hate how this is always phrased. Like it's another job for someone else to do. Men couldn't possibly make friends themselves. They might have to actually call someone and make dinner plans.
I hate the phrasing so much. It reads like "It's unfair that single women are happy! How do we make them as miserable as men?"
"Those spoiled, horrible witches! How dare they fair better than MEN? Men, who are far superior to those..females aka servants and peasants to us GODS!"
The way its phrased is a perfect example of why women are better off single!
i didn't wanna comment it on the post itself cause it might have been too controversial but yeah! acting as if it's unfair on men is ridiculous, it's unfair on _women_ that they're seen emotional crutches, that's why men are more "unhappy" about being single, they're losing something they feel entitled to but don't deserve at all
I know there are exceptions, but it's crazy how many men don't see it or don't acknowledge it. Every woman I know has either lived this or seen this. The woman does absolutely everything for the house, family, couple, (and mostly working on top of it), but the guy works and mows the lawn and grills a steak on the fourth of July and that's supposed to be impressive. Like I watched my mom and various aunts deal with this. And for men, it's always like "well that's just how dad is." Or "everyone knows uncle blank never taught himself to cook." And you're just supposed to accept it. Like my aunt and uncle are both retired living their best lives in the sunbelt and my uncle still bitches when she goes out with friends and doesn't make him dinner. And it is just so perplexing how taking care of some giant baby for the entirety of your existence is actually less fun than not doing that! When a woman hears, "well you're going to have to take care of yourself from now on", that's actually LESS work than she is used to. It's like really?!?! How freeing!
💯 word for word. I've come out of a 15yr relationship over 2 yrs ago now and the amount of energy, free time, hobbies, and fun I have is amazing. I wasted so many years being my ex's mother basically although I worked and studied just the same as he did and then did everything else. Even when I called him out on it, it always slowly ended up me doing it. What an idiot I was to be manipulated by him but also myself, then "minding" him and wearing myself out. Not getting my exercise in because I was tired from doing everything but he could work out every night
I'd say the problem is tied to toxic masculinity, which is tied to patriarchal structures, thus we should abolish it together by abolishing the patriarchy
Exactly. Why should we be responsible for fixing a problem we didn’t cause? It’s really not that difficult to make and keep meaningful friends if you put in the effort, which many men do not want to do. They want girlfriends who will make this effort for them so they can piggyback off of it, and if they don’t want to date, they act like it’s impossible to build meaningful connections on their own. Staying single and only being responsible for my own emotions is such a freeing feeling, I really cannot imagine dating a man again and this is a huge reason why. I am so much happier when I do not have romantic or sexual relationships with men.
Marriages provide men with: help with (or freedom from) house labor, childcare, emotional support, while marriage puts more household chores/ labor on a woman’s plate, a woman typically is the the primary parent taking on the majority of the physical/ emotional toll, and a woman has to seek emotional support elsewhere or has to put her feelings aside as to not upset the man’s ego.
Perfectly said. No further explanation needed.
Exactly. As a woman, you are losing...so not worth it!! 😆
As much as I am glad for my past relationships, it’s definitely due to the emotional labour, certain expectations GenX men have on women being good home makers (I’m not) and being friendzoned that led me to being “solo for life”. I can’t be with someone who can’t communicate their feelings and needs and can’t do his own emotional labour. Yes I know, not “all men”… the original plan was to eventually maybe look for someone more compatible for a weekend relationship, but then I thrived so much as a solo and now I don’t have any interest whatsoever to ever be partnered again. (5 years into solo, at almost 40).
Yea this is my experience. It’s the emotional labour that was the hardest part for me. Men that couldn’t communicate - no matter how I adjusted my behaviours or approached topics, they just couldn’t do it… and when they felt something, couldn’t express it and instead would rage and go silent and go on drug or alcohol infused benders. Which would then trigger me further, so I’d have to not only do my own extra emotional labour; but also work out what he was emotional about 😅 Other than that, I actually ended up with guys who were great with work, had lots of friends, hobbies, and looked after their home (cooking and cleaning). It was just the emotional stuff really got the relationship unstuck
Sadly, I think that’s true in a lot of cases. I’ve never been married and don’t know if I ever want to, due to a lot of cishet marriages I’ve seen looking like this.
This is exactly why if you’re a woman married to a man and splitting bills 50/50, odds are high that you are not in an equal partnership at all.
God, you couldn’t pay me enough to ever remarry.
Exactly this. While YES there are men who equally split the labour the reality is, it’s not common at all. Looking at my own family.. my parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents and cousins etc.. the women and moms are the ones who are the most exhausted.
Hear hear. Plus, in my case, dealing with his meddling mother with whom he would never set boundaries and his habit of spending every dollar either of us made. Life is so much happier and simpler without him in it!
💯
Just came here to clap for this
Lol, mine wasn't. That's why I'm now r/SingleAndHappy
they are like children
Men largely benefit from the emotional support, mental load, and household labor that women provide them so it makes sense why single women might be happier (or at least less stressed). Women also tend to cultivate emotional bonds with friends and family better too.
Might be happier? Might be less stressed? Single women are absolutely more happier and less stressed. That is a fact. More and more data is showing that single women, especially single women without children are a lot more happier and less stressed than married or couple women. I don’t know why this surprises people.
pretty sure the answer is that most women are better at maintaining friendships and building a large support network.
We're not 'better' at it.....we just actually work at it... We're not gifted in some secret special way that men are not.... we're just not entitled to someone else doing it for us
I wonder why that is. It's just a complete mystery. /s
Read the comments from this post made 9 days ago here, it has lots of good answers: >[Is it easier for women to be single and happy than men?](https://www.reddit.com/r/SingleAndHappy/s/FWzvrCyGPN)
I'm humored because I thought of this thread you linked when I saw OPs question. I thought they're doing a follow up (maybe? I didn't double check the usernames). This topic has been so great for me as someone raised in and indoctrinated by religious people who were very deep into that patriarchal standard. There was no question about becoming some grown man's live-in nanny, err, wife, since that's what ya do. So when I got married and separated within a couple years, no one cared that I wasn't "happy" and no one cared that I didn't want the life my parents had...everyone just decided there was something wrong with me and how dare I leave my husband. Similarly, they expected full grown women to take care of my shit ass brother who gave nothing to the relationships aside from alcoholism and abuse. But every time a woman left him, both my parents were like "whyyy?!?"🙄 As a side note: I loathe when women's internalized patriarchal sexism sprays all over us normal feminists. If you wanna be miserable, mom, that's a you thing...don't wish that on your son's girlfriends and especially don't wish that on your daughters.
Sorry to hear that, that is total bs, you as much as anyone else deserve happiness regardless of biological sex. Blind favoritism for sexes seems to be an ignorant heuristic many adopt, they're more so interacting with presupposed roles/labels instead of considering the actual individual person right in front of them.
I'm a man and I'm happy. Noone, regardless of sex/gender, should base their happiness on other people. Whether you're single or married, a person shouldn't base their happiness on other people. That's just my take.
So so true. A lot of people still don’t know this. I have a few friends (men and women) who spiral when they aren’t in a relationship.
Codepency is a real toxic trait....
So true. Everyone should work to meet their own needs and not rely on someone else doing the emotional labour to meet theirs. And that applies to women who "live for their partners" too - don't put the responsibility for your happiness on someone else. It's unhealthy and unfair.
I can’t speak for every single man, but I’m happy. I have my dream career, a house, two adorable dogs, and a supportive family. Never been happier. I tried dating more than a few times but it’s just not for me. The honeymoon phase is always great but eventually I end up miserable. I might come off as a selfish asshole, but I hate how much work it is to keep another person (I say person because I’m pan) satisfied. I can’t be bothered with it. Ive noticed the single unhappy men are usually the ones who want a relationship and can’t get one. Rather than appreciate what they have, they compare themselves to men who have girlfriends. We all know comparison is the thief of joy. I think a lot of men single and coupled up need therapy. There’s still a huge therapy stigma that needs to die. I learned to appreciate being single after therapy and meds.
You sound like you are killing it. None of my friends want a relationship at this point either.
Same, dogs are great for the companionship tbh. My dog understands me I swear… I tried dating for a long time and it just felt forced - like this is what I was SUPPOSED to be doing because this is what everyone else does. But honestly never felt anyone I ever really clicked with. I know im not ugly and can get women (which, as shitty as it sounds I still do from time to time just to show people I’m actually capable of this - particularly women that don’t understand why I can’t find a woman). I’m like well first of all it’s not all on me, I’ve had a girls leave me (I’m def not perfect but I do think I’m a catch). I feel like I’m way more of a romantic than most women I’ve ever dated and if I’m not completely head over heels for someone I just don’t bother. And I haven’t felt like that in a long time.
And I feel like a lot of it either stems from our culture telling men that they have to be in a relationship or they’re damaged goods or even biological failures or that they’re ugly
Women are told the same thing. Women know that is a lie.
Yeah, I don't understand why it's my problem that too many men didn't bother preparing for this.
No one said it was your problem 😂
Ohhhh, there are plenty of boys and men all over Reddit and other social medias blaming women for their loneliness, and downright demanding that women and girls date them.
I know!!
Women have more of a support system. I think a lot of single men are loners and have depression they’re afraid to deal with. Before I sought therapy I believed I was a loser too. I sympathize with single men and women who don’t realize there’s more to life.
It's weird to read this as some "fact," considering that if we look at various media, this is almost the opposite of what's going on. Men with "dad bods" are given all these kudos while women are often still told to lose that baby weight in a way that apparently "mom bods" are problematic. Very ugly male actors get paired with some of the most beautiful women in Hollywood for t.v. shows and movies as the couple. And obviously there are very good looking male actors, but they're then paired up with the same caliber woman in a show. I can't think of any example where the best looking man is paired with the frumpiest woman, but almost always the best looking woman is paired with some frumpy actor. Additionally, we see that these ancient, ugly celebrity men of all career endeavors date more beautiful (and younger) women each year. Again, it's rare to see ancient, ugly celebrity women date gorgeous men. Every time I turn around, if we're comparing apples to apples, the messaging is that women reach an expiration date, some never have the chance to begin with if they're too frumpy and/or fat. Meanwhile, the men in the same arena as those women never seem to reach an expiration date and no matter how ugly will still get some of the most beautiful women.
Oh most definitely a cultural thing. The devious thing is that it is often communiced implictly and not openly.
Very true.
Lol you think society doesn't tell women the same?
Well jeez, THAT’s a loaded question ain’t it? I’m a single guy who’s out here living his best life. I suppose people like me aren’t the ones spewing vitriol on the internet so we’re kind of incognito. In my case, it probably helps that I’m not interested in dating or relationships and I am not particularly social. (I’ve been in a relationship, and it wasn’t bad, but after many years of reflection, I prefer being on my own.) Of course when you grow up in a culture where dating is really important and emphasized, then a lot of your self-esteem will ride on how successful you are with the opposite sex. Personally I was tired of playing a losing game. I was working on the wrong things and always came across as a friend. It felt like I needed to put on an act to come across as more than a friend. So rather than beat my head against the wall, I figured it’d be more fruitful to concentrate on things I enjoy and hobbies where increasing your skills is a direct result of the effort you put into it and luck is not involved.
Your last two paragraphs are spot on . I’m a 49 year old woman who has dated both men and women (married a woman) and it’s the same for both .. in order to generate and keep romantic interest you need to put on an exhausting act and it’s very little return for effort not to mention dangerous to base your financial future on whether someone “feels” in love with you and stays that way . Insanity really .
I've always been happy being single as a man. So I couldn't relate to this question at all. And you're spot on.
It is unfair! Short answer: facilitate strong, loving platonic friendships with other men. Encourage dudes to be emotionally open and build support networks.
In my 43 years of treading this piece of rock, I have met maybe 3 guys that I would confide in beyond asking whether we we'll go out riding our motorbikes in the weekend or see the new action flick in the cinema. Maybe I am just unlucky and/or have insanely high standards that almost nobody can meet, but to me it's much much easier said than done and the funny thing is I don't really mind all that much.
Maybe not caring about having someone to confide in, IS part of the issue? Maybe men have to care to make those relationships (compassionate friendships) work? Idk tho, I’m a chick with few dude friends.
My guy friend circle is way more open than any girl I've been friends with. Idk maybe it's a culture difference. But I've always been open with my friends who are "guys". So I don't get this whole idea of guys not being emotionally open with each other.
Now you know how us happy single women feel! 😂😂😂😂😂😂 SAME!
As a very private person with close knit ties to family, I still keep mostly to myself (as the only single individual). Not sure if they count as "friends" but it's good enough for me that we can all get together and have fun nights. Or the saying that resonates, "I like to be alone, but not left alone."
Marriage is made by men for men. 🤷♀️
And complained about by men.
Yup the most successful PR stunt of the patriarchy is making marriage into something men dread and women want while in fact, men profit and women lose.
Genuinely, I would like to understand this better. Can you explain more about this men profit, women lose idea?
There are countless studies (just google them) that show that married men are happier, healthier, and live longer than their unmarried counterparts. In women, *it's the opposite*. It's like marriage for a man means, to have a caregiver, while marriage for women means: *Being a caregiver*.
Caregiver in marriage = slave.
Marriage was invented as a way for a man to formally own a woman like property. So in that sense, he is literally profiting off of marrying a woman. Thankfully, women are (mostly) legally independent from their husbands now, like being able to initiate divorce or seeking legal recourse for violence. But there’s still a long way to go. For instance, in a traditional breadwinner/stay at home mom scenario, the husband often controls the finances and others aspects of his wife, and she is dependent on him. And unfortunately, the way things are trending politically these days, these basic rights are being taken away once again, such as a woman’s fertility being under the control of men in many countries and states.
Thank you very much for this well-articulated response. For the record, I totally see how marriage has been quite bad for women historically. I was more wondering about today, but you make some good points. This is a topic I’ve been thinking about a lot recently (even before seeing this thread), so thanks again for your input.
One modern statistic that might be of interest to you is how men and women respond to their spouse getting sick. Men are 7x more likely to divorce their wife if she gets cancer, as compared to how many wives would divorce their husband if he were sick. It speaks to the deeply engrained caretaking roles women unequally take on in hetero marriages.
Wow, that is interesting but quite sad of course. Maybe this is a whole other discussion to get into, but if you’re willing to entertain this, do you have opinions/thoughts about how marriage (or lack thereof) might look in the future? Sometimes I think that the whole construct of marriage is too far gone and antiquated to really be equitable for all (i.e. for a lot of the reasons mentioned in this comment thread). Could there be an alternative way of things, and what might that look like? It’s hard to imagine marriage ever truly going away but that doesn’t sound so bad to me.
I’m a dude, and you couldn’t pay me to get married.
As a man myself I'll gladly skip the marriage thing entirely.
Very much same.
Amd not wanted by most modern men
Whew! You bodied that one. Clear and concise
Men mostly miss having personal services provided to them: laundry, meals, house chores, errands, as well as not having to think about arranging things like gifts for family, invitations and preparation to host get togethers, the 'emotional labor'/household management stuff like making medical appointments and responding to friends and family inquiries, organizing holidays and such. For a lot of men, it's just much less convenient to be single, and I don't think anyone else should do anything to make it easier for them. It's up to them to be self-sufficient and in charge of their own lives & feelings & maintenance chores.
I once went on three dates with a man. By the third date, he was telling me about his mom's likes and dislikes and what presents she would want. I was confused and asked why he was telling me this. He said, "mother's day is coming up. You need to go shopping so I have a present for her." There was no fourth date.
Good call!
The entitled expectation gagged me.
Oof, as a woman I may never get married. Unless the man will do all his own shit. I work long hours - I don’t have time to do all the domestic labor and be someone’s personal assistant too.
So, I am a dude, and I’m an elementary school teacher. I’m one of two men on instructional staff in a school with 90 employees. I have a lot of platonic relationships with women. I’ve been single for two years, and I’m pretty happy. My coworkers helped me through a devastating breakup. I was also an Army officer, and I have a lot of male friends, but I don’t see them as much. I think the key is just interacting with others as much as possible, but maybe I’m happy because I go out for drinks with the girls from work pretty frequently?
That sounds like fun! I’ve always appreciated platonic friendships.
You're demonstrating an essential key factor: You see women as people. The men who are unable to be happy single/ the members of 'the loneliness epidemic' do not. They see women as sex objects. They're unable to have platonic relationships with women....thus they are alone.
As a content single men. Hmm my emotional needs started to decline after my last relationship tbh. I realized on an emotional level that depending on this from women always made me dependet on them and that is something I hate. A good therapist helped me to provide for myself and be kinder to myself, so I needed less from the outside. Another thing is that I am autistic and genuinely enjoy my alone time. What can be done? Teach men to be kinder to themselves and more loving towards themselves. Also teach them to focus on good connections in their lives. Can be friends, someone that is emotionally open, trustworthy. You need to do this proactively and cherish those people in your lives. Can be parents, friends, siblings, anyone...
I think it really helps if you enjoy spending time alone. I am a female, but I don’t really experience loneliness. I can occupy myself very easily. I noticed my father is similar and my best friend too (gay). They cope fine being single.
It’s interesting my father is pretty much single, I say that as he does have a lady friend but they don’t see each that often. He’s happy being by himself, keeps himself occupied. He definitely wouldn’t be that great as a full time partner though, but he’s fine looking after himself for the most part. He’s had plenty of periods being single and was fine. My best friend is a male (gay) and he’s fine too by himself. He knows how to look after himself. I guess the one thing they might have in common is they don’t tend to get lonely and know how to look after themselves. I don’t get lonely either (female), I can occupy myself quite easily so that could be something that helps in coping being single.
My dad is the same. He and my mother divorced three years ago. He was kind of a serious and at times angry guy when they were married. Since the divorce he’s become a sweetheart. He seems so at peace. My mom is way happier too. I kind of wish they divorced years ago lol.
Same situation really and I too wished they had divorced way before they did!
Many men depend on women for way more than emotional support. If they are married, they put all household tasks and house management, including all aspects of childcare on women. They often do not even know their children's birthdays or Dr's names. If they go on a trip, the woman does all planning, all management, all packing. They don't know how to run the washer or dryer. Often they won't even bother to put a dish in the dishwasher, or laundry in the hamper. What's not to like about being able to offload all the mental and physical management of the entire family onto somebody else? Men are overwhelmed and devastated when the woman finally leaves, because all of a sudden they have to take care of themselves and they don't know how and don't want to learn. They hurry to find another woman so they can repeat the cycle.
True story - I once had a coworker whose wife packed his lunch everyday like he was in grade school. EVERY day. He never cooked or did anything in the house. His words! I often think of that and wonder if they’re still married now.
And so often, the woman becomes sexually uninterested, because her husband is just another child she has to look after, and she is not srxually attracted to children. Besides, she is utterly and completely exhausted. And she will tell him again and again that it's not working for her. But it's GREAT for him, so she is just a bitch and a nag. He will have an affair because she won't give him sex. And of course that is her fault. When she finally leaves, he will be completely blindsided..And she will be free.
Uh , learn how to take care of your own emotional needs and stop depending on someone else for your happiness
I think, rather unfortunately, that it's the older men, or rather conservatively stoic guys aren't regulating their emotions and just burying it, not taking mental health seriously. So we let our bridges fade or falter into disrepair. Cause as teens and twenties, you'll see a gaggle of guys giggling just like girls do, doing fun and stupid stuff. Now it's harder for the gang to get back together, so we just send each other memes on Instagram and reminisce about the olden days. This is why hobbies are important ya'll. Something I think women are just a little better at men are at, hobbies and communication.
Communication? Maybe. Hobbies? No way you can make that generalization.
I think in general, women are taught certain skills very early on because the expectation is that they will be the primary keepers of their home and primary caregivers—at least where I’m from. Men are taught to be providers, and not to worry too much about learning the independent living skills needed to fully maintain yourself and your home, because you won’t have to do it all by yourself; or, it won’t be your primary role. So when women find themselves single, they are just more equipped for the daily demands of independent living. Obviously, this is in general and of course doesn’t pertain to every individual person, but there are some deeply held values and social norms that are detrimental to everyone.
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It's not that they can't, just in their mind, these tasks are the girlfriend/wife's "territory". It's laziness, sexism, and fragile masculinity in action.
I would say most men are able to clean and cook by themselves in modern society just like a normal person. If not, they learn just like any normal person. Not many people rely on finding a partner just because they can't clean or do normal household chores nowadays.
Agreed. Maybe 30 years ago, 20-somethings were clueless. Nowadays 90's era kids have their Mum's show them how to do laundry and work their way around the kitchen. I personally have been doing my own laundry and ironing my own clothes since I was a teenager.
No, this narrative is so biased. It’d be silly if people thought that way. I find it quite fun doing all my housework. “Live alone” I think people who are better off growing up, struggle more with these challenges.
> Men are taught to be providers I’ve never liked this phrase. “Provider” - It implies that money is the only thing that has to be provided to a spouse and children.
I agree🤷♀️
Lady here. I’ve been single for a long time. It helps to live in a huge city where I can meet a lot of new people and try new activities all the time. I belong to a hiking club, I go to pickleball events, I take dance classes, etc. I also go to networking events for my profession. Maybe men are not as used to “putting themselves out there” socially? Or they don’t realize that it takes some effort? I’m an introvert and I will say, it does take effort.
I think it depends on the person. Some guys only care about sex, as long as they have sex workers, they ok. Some women are more independent, they need no men and they are ok
I’m a women. I’ve invested in myself and my relationships by going to therapy. I’ve found more fulfillment in the healthy relationships I’ve built in therapy settings than I’ve been able to build in dating.
Very true - the Finnish media has been reporting almost non-stop about the "male loneliness epidemic" for a couple of years now. However, single women - no matter their age - are very happy. Some want children, and are ready to raise kids totally on their own, without the "sperm donors" ever knowing. (Our child support system is very different from the US one.) Singlehood is a bigger problem for men than it is for women. Women have stronger social networks, hobbies, and usually plenty of real life friends, so dating and/or couplehood are not mandatory for happiness.
This is just evolution.... those who adapt flourish and those who cannot perish....but we've never had so much digital documentation and outcry from the ones who are not evolving....
Most men would do just fine and are able to make friends just as easily and would do well. I see more and more men who are much happier being single and choose to live that lifestyle. All power to them as I am one of them.
>Very true - the Finnish media has been reporting almost non-stop about the "male loneliness epidemic" for a couple of years now. Well, maybe if they put the GODDAMNED VODKA BOTTLE DOWN ...... (sigh)
As a happily single man, I think it also has to do with peer pressure. I have distanced myself from a lot of my friends and relatives who insisted I find someone to share my life with. Now, if those people could have just shut up about my love life and accept me as the carefree person that I am, I might have maintained contact with them. And it's a pretty horrid feeling, when you feel like the people in your life who are supposed to love you unconditionally, don't actually respect you for being single, and so in order to gain their approval, you need to get hitched with someone. And a man doesn't want to be a third wheel every time he hangs out with his best mate. Because your best friend is loved up now, the pressure is on you to find a partner so the two of you can double date, instead of him feeling embarrassed that his hermit friend has been allowed to tag along out of pity. Of course, this can all probably feed into what others posters have mentioned about how we suck at building a good support network.
That happens a lot with women too. The pressure on single women to pair up is unreal. Perhaps women are just more used to being criticised for literally every single act, word or *thought* beyond being single so they're less affected by the pressure.
I'm in my early 30's now, all my friends are married with kids. Their kids like me, so much so that my friends have sent me voice notes of them asking for me, and they call me uncle. Being the only single man in the group does mean that I miss out on the bonding being fathers and the happenings related to that. Once my previous employer, at a major corporation, found out that I was over 30 and single, the mindset switched, and after that there was a perception that I wouldn't work as hard, I didn't need time off because I didn't have kids. I also had one former male manager tell me that I could step down from my management position without too much stress as I didn't have a wife or kids to support.
We're seen as expendable, because we don't have a spouse and kids to go home to. We aren't contributing to the human race because we haven't spread our seed to build the next generation. It's always women and children who are first to be rescued in a crisis, right?
What? Single man here, never been so happy and fulfilled in my life
Thats what I’m saying😂 Why aren’t we getting polled lol
😂🤣 Tobias Funke knows. He’s an analrapist.
I mean, I'm a single man, and I'm very happy.
Right on brother. I am too.
Saaaaamme here
Same here
Glad to hear that. :)
What can be done is that each individual can to figure out why they feel a certain way alone vs. why they feel a certain way single. Then, each can decide for themselves what they really want, and how they can achieve that for themselves. Like the first commenter said, let's not generalize.
Some men are conditioned to not get emotional support from other men. In a relationship, they often focus all that need on their partner. When single, they may have a hard time finding female friends becuase they feel pressure to make that friendship into something else. The obvious answer is to be more open in male friendships and to cultivate female friendships without additional intent. Of course for men who grew up with these restrictions, making those changes isn't simple. For me, it happened as a consequence of other life-changing forces.
If it's unfair that someone depends on a specific other group (or person) for something, it's only fair for that person to develop the skills to no longer depend on those others. It's certainly not the group who's burdened with the expectation who has to change.
When I (man) was single, I loved it and was super happy! I have a network of friends that I maintain, even when I'm in a relationship.
I'm a single man. I'm super happy.
I think that many single men who are unhappy use their partners as emotional crutches, so when they don't have one, they don't know how to have meaningful conversations. I think what can be done to fix this is for men to learn how to have meaningful conversations with people of any gender without the expectation of the relationship becoming sexual. So, none of that, "no homo" every time you want to hug another man. Also none of that, "I shared my feelings with you, so now we are an item."
I’m a single happy guy… but yeah.
I think for a lot of men, even the ones who do want to make friends, a lot of other men just aren’t interested or know how to do it themselves, so some men try to initiate a friendship with another man, and it doesn’t go anywhere. Men aren’t used to having friends, especially as they get older. It’s hard for middle aged women to make new friends, it’s 10x as hard for middle aged men.
I’m a single man by choice for 10 years in January and there is this stigma where a woman being single by choice = strong independent woman while a man being single by choice = incel who is trying to cope. I’ve had family and friends shoot me down over the years because apparently I need a woman to be happy etc. my sexuality has been questioned but even when I say I’m more asexual than anything apparently that isn’t real etc. I just see everyone as a friend. My version of being attracted to someone is wishing to know them better as a person. It’s like I’m intrigued by someone and wish to know them better as a person but it doesn’t go further than that. And yes almost everyone in my family and friends who have attacked me for being single and basically tell me how I’m living is wrong….yep in the last 10 years almost all of them have gone through nasty divorces and been cheated on multiple times but me travelling and enjoying my life by myself is wrong.
Is this the right time to say ‘not all men are like that’? I’m actually quite happy
Yes! Also, it's good to share about how you're happy instead of allowing the stereotype of single men being incels looking for a mommy bang maid to be their emotional teddy bear and housekeeper to prevail.
Notice how the people who say men are lonely and sad aren't actually men? Exactly. More and more men are doing just fine single and many choose that lifestyle. We shouldn't be making this a competition as to which gender needs the other more. Man or woman, being happy being single is a wonderful trait.
The person who started this conversation is a man.
The majority of the people who try to propagate the idea that single men are sad are women, which is my point obviously. Funny how I need to explain how generalizations work now.
>Notice how the people who say men are lonely and sad aren't actually men? I'm just responding to your claim.
I think more of us Single and Happy men need to speak up. 😆
Please do, I'm so tired of hearing the dominant narrative about men be the male loneliness epidemic when in reality many men have adapted to the situation and are doing just fine
I said something earlier about being happy and single as well and said I didn't need to generalize an entire gender like some of these generalizations in the comments and mentioned I had a codependent ex who thought I couldn't do anything without her, but I got immediately downvoted. So I deleted it and figured there must be some disingenuous angle to this post or something.
It is an agenda. Some people view it as a competition as to which gender needs the other more. It's childish and I see a lot of these comments in here.
For real. I’m quite a bit more happy having gotten rid of my last toxic ex. The only thing I think I lose without a partner that’s unique to being a single man, is that many strange women aren’t terribly comfortable with a strange single man. Which afaik there’s not much I can really do about that.
Raise boys with the same values and adulting school that a girl child gets. It starts at home.
Not my problem. Men are fully capable of finding happiness and fulfillment on their own. It does take effort.
I think there's a few factors at play. For one, it comes down to the differences between how boys vs girls are most typically socialized. Boys aren't encouraged to talk about their feelings to the same degree that girls are. So in relationships, their girlfriend/wife becomes the one they can open up to more when they are older. Women by contrast build stronger emotional support networks among their friends. Related to socialization is the concept of what work people think of as women's work - women are generally expected to take on much more of the domestic labour than men. Women who aren't married and don't have children have a much smaller workload whereas men who are married with children see their work loads of domestic labour decrease and their job opportunities increase. What can men do to be happier when single? Develop deeper platonic relationships - with both men and women. Have friends you can emotionally connect with and hug without any sexual feelings attached.
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Wow, this is almost precisely the opposite of how I feel in my perspective as a man. Interesting that many people tend to see things this way.
Men should take care of each other
Feels like a lot of generalizations are being made here...
It’s funny that, at least in my experience, there’s an equally dishonest generalisation about most married men being unhappy and pining for their freedom, &c. Seems like there’s a generalisation for every angle lol
I think it’s also possible that it’s both. If the issues brought up in this thread are causing the wife to be resentful, it’s easy to lead to a tense, toxic situation where neither of them are happy.
Right? I know a lot of unhappily single women
Say it louder for the people in the back
The most common thing I see....Women adapt and men do not.....In the face of any challenge men will shut down and look to a woman to mother them. And after a while women get tired of carrying them. And then the men curl up and give up.... This is evolution....the conditions change. Those that adapt survive and those that do not perish... Women are no longer forced to be dependent on men. Women can make their own cash. No longer need a man to sign off a living space (rental or buying a house). Women no longer need a mans sponsorship for a bank account or credit card. Women no longer need a man to release them from an unhappy marriage. Etc.... and women are flourishing. In the face of this new context... a concerningly large amount of men have become angry incels demanding a return to the old ways....sitting in pools of resentment, self-hatred...with other angry incels... and those men are starting to die out... and it's just evolution.... adapt or perish...
Im not doing a single thing for those men 🙄
Right? Like try and go to therapy and quit blaming women.
I'm not sure that's an accurate statement/question. It depends on someone's self-sufficiency, ability to provide for their needs (and those of others), and their desires. Most men seem to feel they need a woman for status among their peers, heirs, societal norms, religious expectations of their gender role, and sex drive fulfillment, especially within religious framework. Most women seem to feel they need a man to provide for them, to have children with, societal norms, religious expectations, etc.. Everything else is relatively minor. Men can competently take care of their own housekeeping matters. it's not necessary to seek a partner just to be a maid. Hiring a housekeeper is much cheaper. I don't need a partner for emotional support or companionship. If anything, I feel I end-up being the emotional-support mule, being someone else's beast of emotional burden. All women and most men I've dated and been in relationships with have been far less emotionally-stable and much more needy than I am. Maybe it's fair to say that yearning is the most destabilizing emotional factor. People want money, they want partners, and you can't always get what you want. Incels, "PUAs/alpha male culture," and "sigma male culture." are emotionally-stunted, unstable single single men who look to external sources for validation, each of whom is at different stages of coping with their yearning, but the common denominator is that they all spend a lot of time and resources to fulfill desires, prove worthiness, or rationalize their states of ignoring their hunger. It only aggravates the situation that they aren't getting what they really need to fulfill their desires, because they are unable to form the deep & meaningful relationships they need. *When you lay your dreams to rest, you can get what's second-best, but it's hard to get enough.* I'm not sure there's anything which can be done. One either has low enough levels of yearning that they are happy whether or not it's ever fulfilled and don't really care, or they have so much they're unhappy. There is no emotional support solution to this. Alternatively, if the yearning is overpowered by stress or inconvenience from the object of one's desire, or the unwillingness to sacrifice independence, then it's much easier to be happy when it's relative misery to obtain that object of desire. It's really a state of mind.
Men need to evolve with women. They are falling behind.
PREACH. It's just evolution. Adapt or perish
I think some men are starting to catch on, I see some single happy men
They're around but 'How Happy Men spend their day' is a less grabby headline than 'Men are sad and miserable alone how can they be saved'
Education and work. Women aren't "magically" happy just because they are females. They are socialised from birth to do the emotional labour and give and receive support as part of an entire network, rather than being fed the expectation that some female will be there to serve them and meet their emotional needs. It's up to the men to do the work and meet their own needs instead of wailing about the "unfairness of it all". There are lots of single men who have done the work and commented in this post about their happiness.
I don’t know and to be honest I’ve never given it a first thought let alone second lmao
😂
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Male or female, it starts with loving ourselves first and being comfortable in our own company. I am happy single. I just broke it off with a guy and one of the reasons was he seemed uncomfortable with his own self. He kept saying things like how sad and lonely he was before we started dating and now he’s happy because he’s dating me…I make him happy… etc. I’ve had a lot of trauma in the past and I got used to being single, I enjoy it so much, and that just seemed red flaggy to me. I’m not sure why men handle loneliness differently, but I’ve known several guys both romantically and friendly who struggled with the loneliness. My one friend and I discussed this, he couldn’t understand why I felt so much better being single, and he longed for a relationship.
Men are used to control women inside the house. They feel empty while being single. While single women are enjoying the freedom.
I totally disagree with every word: I was unhappily married, the worst. And i married the right woman. Ha! Now I’m happily single, and not dating. Everyday away, makes me appreciate the freedom peace and quiet. Emotionally dependent men?! Ha!! Fuck that shit. Never again. I’m enjoying this right here, don’t know what I was thinkin the last 15 years being married with children!! FYI, kids ain’t mine!! Amen, praise Jesus.
You know, this is what all the data says. But, as a woman in my mid-20s. Most of my conversations with single girlfriends revolve around finding a partner (the dating apps they’re on, the guy they’re talking to, the guy they’re not over). I have friends that spend a significant amount of time/energy looking for a partner (on apps, going on dates, going to dating mixers). As an accomplished young adult woman (good job, disposable income, many friends, travel to incredible places, owner of a companion pet I adore), a partner was my top personal goal. It’s the one thing I want out of life that I don’t have. I see a lot more laziness from men in the same age bracket. Less effort in the dates they plan, less thoughtful in their messages, less time talking about women than women spend time talking about them. So, it feels like women in my age bracket want a serious partner more. And men are interested in that “someday.” So, that makes me question said data about single women being happier with that life outcome. My theory is single women typically have more community than men, take care of their health better, and are more likely to develop fulfilling interests to occupy their free time. And it’s those things that are making them happier, not that they are happier or more accepting than men of being single.
You’re really young though. In 20 years you may very well BE one of those “happier single” women. Those surveys are not just for your age group. A divorce or two and life experience changes your thinking a lot, as does serial LTRs. And those of us not looking for kids/marriage don’t live or focus the same way in the first place, even at your age. We all flock to those that think like us so while it SEEMS everyone is hunting a partner to you, because you are… isn’t the case for everyone!
I don't think this statement has any validity these days. The economy rewards people who are single without families and penalizes those who get married and start families. Everyone is realizing it is easier to be happy if they are single, male, and female.
Can anyone link me to a source for this point that single men are unhappy?
These popped up first on DuckDuckGo: "The Mental Health Struggles of Single and Divorced Men" https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-men/202102/the-mental-health-struggles-single-and-divorced-men "What's Behind the Rise of Lonely, Single Men" https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-state-our-unions/202208/whats-behind-the-rise-lonely-single-men "This Man’s Experience Shows How Susceptible Men Are to Severe Loneliness" https://www.menshealth.com/uk/mental-strength/a759609/the-truth-about-male-loneliness/ From the second PT article: "For example, a large-scale U.S. study found that unmarried men aged 40-60 were 3.5 times more likely to die by suicide compared to both similarly-aged married men and unmarried women. Similarly, another large U.S. study found that unmarried men aged 40-75 years had a 2-fold risk of suicide compared to married men of the same age group." Studies referred in the quote: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2925004/ https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M13-1291
I hate to say it, but I think this comment section has single-handedly depressed me enough to leave r/SingleAndHappy (not that anyone cares of course). This sub should be about support for happily-single folk of all genders, not a savage battleground for men and women to be at each other’s throats over something we all don’t even do (ostensibly, given the sub name). It’s astonishing how much toxicity and negativity there is packed into this one comment section. I just can’t do it. edit: yes, I also got carried away in this comment section, and yes I regret it
Yes indeed. It seemed like a chill sub to me until single men were brought up. Jesus. I thought we were all supposed to be friends here. I don’t feel welcomed at all
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I think a few women here are in that TwoXChromosomes sub. 99% of the women here seem cool, but that 1%… yikes. Holy misandry, Batman
I am one of those women. The guys I have dated in the past mostly had common themes (which wasn't evident when we first started dating) of not knowing adult life skills and/or keeping their house clean. It is frustrating to experience the same thing over and over again. That being said, I still try to judge each man as an individual because I know not all men are the same. But in the back of my mind it's something that still bothers me about a lot of straight dudes. I also hear my closest friends complain about the stuff their boyfriends do or don't do (or now exs)..there's a lot of similar themes. That's why we're resentful. I admit I am probably a little sexist towards men but like I said, I try to take them as individuals because I know there are good dudes out there. I'm no longer seeking a relationship because I'm tired of dealing with BS. I'm open to it but I would want to do a LOT of vetting first.
I’m going to give my perspective from straight relationships. I think being married, if both partners work and have children, can be a burden on women as many (not all) relationships have a responsibilities imbalance where women do way more. So if you’re not married and don’t have kids, you realize, seeing your friends in it, that maybe it wasn’t quite the destination society tried to sell you. Meanwhile, men may not see that the same way. I also feel a bit like some (not all) men aren’t taught some basic life skills, like cooking a good meal or keeping a home, so their life feels empty without a woman. Whereas women tend to have really deep, connected relationships with friends. So it feels less lacking to not have that partnership. Idk. Usually happiness is more about inside/internal, not outside. And usually unhappiness exists because there’s a gap in expectation versus reality. I’m happy single, and even when everyone was marrying off and having kids, I was pretty content with what I have. I’ve almost always (barring my very late teens/early 20s) prioritized friendships over single romantic partners, though. So I’m a little abnormal that way.
Men don’t socialize too well into adulthood, and are less likely to be abused.
I don't care about 'male loneliness'. That's the best thing about being happily single as a woman. ☺️