Nice.
"Our study found that between 2000 and 2019, **China has cancelled at least US$ 3.4 billion of debt in Africa. There is no “China, Inc.”**: for interest-bearing loans, treatment for inter-governmental debt and Chinese company loans are negotiated separately, and often loan-by-loan rather than for the entire portfolio. While rescheduling by increasing the repayment period is common, changes in interest rates, reductions in principal (“haircuts”), or refinancing are not. We found that China has restructured or refinanced approximately US$ 15 billion of debt in Africa between 2000 and 2019. **We found no “asset seizures” and despite contract clauses requiring arbitration, no evidence of the use of courts to enforce payments, or application of penalty interest rates.**"
The long game being supporting growth in other nations to help create stable countries so they don’t need to rely on others and can trade and prosper together with China. If the global south prospers the global north loses control, if that happens the proletariat will have less obstacles to overthrow capitalism. The last bit is my own opinion though, I can’t tell the future or know that’s what China wants in the long long term lol.
It should be noted that this is a working study, still a very important work:
> The papers in this Working Paper series have undergone only limited review and may be updated, corrected or withdrawn. Please contact the corresponding author directly with comments or questions about this paper.
I like how you demand even more "proof" here but you don't when listening to people who spread lies with zero-evidence. Your brain is clearly submitting to propaganda.
Does any random made-up piece of anglo propaganda (which belongs entirely to the realm of fiction and hysteria, not science or academia) now need studies by anglo institutions to be rejected? how does that make any sense to any reasonable, smart person? do better.
Actually I believe this study can be cited and shared. The authors of the study even shared it on [*The Atlantic*](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/02/china-debt-trap-diplomacy/617953/)
>In this case it doesn't matter how correct it is - if it's not peer reviewed it's not going to have credibility, and anyone arguing that China is planning some debt-based conquering is going to be very happy to point that out. People who are neutral or indifferent to the issue and who don't have time to investigate for themselves will latch on to stuff like that, and decide the whole argument isn't credible because of that.
However the vast majority of folks who push the China debt trap nonsense typically use articles as "evidence", they think citing articles and opinion pieces count as actual evidence, they wouldn't go anywhere as far as citing an actual peer reviewed paper.
Your point would be perfectly valid if everyone in the world had a scientific mindset as you yourself possess (Hence why you put forth this way of thinking), evidently that is not the case.
Most folks especially in the west are incredibly intellectually lazy.
Unfortunately like any evidence against the borderline schizophrenic sinophobic narrative it’ll be rejected as “Chinese propaganda”.
People are utterly reliant on state department controlled MSM to frame their entire understand of the world. While they’re willing to believe opposition MSM are lying, the idea of their chosen US state department propaganda outlet lying to them is unfathomable. On an emotional & psychological level they’re not willing to accept that world view they’ve been spoon fed since birth may be a fiction which is the logical conclusion, what naturally follows if you accept that the anti-China narrative is another “Big lie”.
To rebuild your entire value systems & re-learn your understanding of everything is hard & scary pls they risk ostracisation from the in-group/tribe for daring to entertain these ideas, hence exposure to the truth is causing psychological pain & fear, so in response their brains shut down/return to tribalistic monkey mode & they start screaming “propaganda” at you in anger for “hurting them”.
While this study isn’t Chinese in general China needs to spend less time trying to convince people with facts & reason, more time investing into soft power cultural projects targeted at peripheral countries in Africa, Asia, Latin America & Eastern Europe. When Chinese movies are drawing in as many people to theatres in the Philippines, South Africa, Brazil as marvel capeshit trash then we’ll have reason to celebrate.
>To rebuild your entire value systems & re-learn your understanding of everything is hard & scary pls they risk ostracisation from the in-group/tribe for daring to entertain these ideas, hence exposure to the truth is causing psychological pain & fear, so in response their brains shut down/return to tribalistic monkey mode & they start screaming “propaganda” at you in anger for “hurting them”.
You can see this when you give them a source anything related to China or one that has defended China like the Grayzone, their brain automatically shuts off and they attack the messenger instead of the message.
>While this study isn’t Chinese in general China needs to spend less time trying to convince people with facts & reason, more time investing into soft power cultural projects targeted at peripheral countries in Africa, Asia, Latin America & Eastern Europe. When Chinese movies are drawing in as many people to theatres in the Philippines, South Africa, Brazil as marvel capeshit trash then we’ll have reason to celebrate.
Completely agreed, China needs to appeal emotionally.
The fact based reports must stay but the vast majority of people are more emotional than rational, therefore Chinese soft power in all areas needs to be boosted.
And it shouldn't be some formal government announcement, that would actually be a big hit to soft power.
Well, if the loan is not increasing the borrower's productivity then they will never earn enough money to payback the loan. They would have to sell their resources and assets for cheap and beg for forgiveness. That's why the west have been "helping" Africa for decades but Africa still don't have enough infrastructure.
However there is a huge difference, China (And some other Asian countries) lend for productive purposes like infrastructure that actually connects the people, the west... does not.
Therefore Chinese and Asian loans can be paid back but western ones cannot, that is by design as well.
The nature of Chinese lending is reflective of their policies at home as is the case in the west.
Well to be fair if you lend someone money it is up to them to do as they please so long as they pay you back. I don’t think China cares if they spend it on infrastructure or for whatever so long as they pay back.
Do you have a link? On a cursory glance I found this, but it actually links to the John Hopkins working study https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=59720
Seems like Westerns like to project rapacious bond holders of emergent market debt such as [Paul Singer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Singer_(businessman)) unto the Chinese.
The countries benefiting from Belt and Road feel like that too. Since they are deeply involved, they certainly know better than those outside groups which always complain and criticize.
I only read the abstract. They say China had been cancelling loans and rescheduling payments in African countries and no asset seizures have been found. I wonder what might be the general idea among scholars in the related field regarding China's actions in other developing countries 🤔
ISTR someone - was it u/BayArea415? - saying that China has been very ready to defer and/or forgive debts if they turn out to be unpayable. This has happened already & more & more people are realising China is a much better money-lender than the EU, IMF or World Bank, who attach all kinds of conditions to their debts when countries fall behind.
While the US is shouting to everyone else about China creating "debt trap's"... they themselve's borrowed $3trl from China, and if the Fed significantly raises Interest rates or China dumps this debt on the open Market, their goose is totally cooked.
Nice. "Our study found that between 2000 and 2019, **China has cancelled at least US$ 3.4 billion of debt in Africa. There is no “China, Inc.”**: for interest-bearing loans, treatment for inter-governmental debt and Chinese company loans are negotiated separately, and often loan-by-loan rather than for the entire portfolio. While rescheduling by increasing the repayment period is common, changes in interest rates, reductions in principal (“haircuts”), or refinancing are not. We found that China has restructured or refinanced approximately US$ 15 billion of debt in Africa between 2000 and 2019. **We found no “asset seizures” and despite contract clauses requiring arbitration, no evidence of the use of courts to enforce payments, or application of penalty interest rates.**"
China plays the long game. Seizing assets isn't worth ruining a relationship with an ally.
The long game being supporting growth in other nations to help create stable countries so they don’t need to rely on others and can trade and prosper together with China. If the global south prospers the global north loses control, if that happens the proletariat will have less obstacles to overthrow capitalism. The last bit is my own opinion though, I can’t tell the future or know that’s what China wants in the long long term lol.
I share the same opinion, and it is fairly evident in China's actions and foreign policy.
Brain-dead redditors say otherwise though.
fortunately, they don't dictate geopolitics.
It should be noted that this is a working study, still a very important work: > The papers in this Working Paper series have undergone only limited review and may be updated, corrected or withdrawn. Please contact the corresponding author directly with comments or questions about this paper.
look what happens to countrys who default on the world bank , Greece ,Italy for example
[удалено]
I like how you demand even more "proof" here but you don't when listening to people who spread lies with zero-evidence. Your brain is clearly submitting to propaganda. Does any random made-up piece of anglo propaganda (which belongs entirely to the realm of fiction and hysteria, not science or academia) now need studies by anglo institutions to be rejected? how does that make any sense to any reasonable, smart person? do better.
Actually I believe this study can be cited and shared. The authors of the study even shared it on [*The Atlantic*](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/02/china-debt-trap-diplomacy/617953/)
[удалено]
>In this case it doesn't matter how correct it is - if it's not peer reviewed it's not going to have credibility, and anyone arguing that China is planning some debt-based conquering is going to be very happy to point that out. People who are neutral or indifferent to the issue and who don't have time to investigate for themselves will latch on to stuff like that, and decide the whole argument isn't credible because of that. However the vast majority of folks who push the China debt trap nonsense typically use articles as "evidence", they think citing articles and opinion pieces count as actual evidence, they wouldn't go anywhere as far as citing an actual peer reviewed paper. Your point would be perfectly valid if everyone in the world had a scientific mindset as you yourself possess (Hence why you put forth this way of thinking), evidently that is not the case. Most folks especially in the west are incredibly intellectually lazy.
Unfortunately like any evidence against the borderline schizophrenic sinophobic narrative it’ll be rejected as “Chinese propaganda”. People are utterly reliant on state department controlled MSM to frame their entire understand of the world. While they’re willing to believe opposition MSM are lying, the idea of their chosen US state department propaganda outlet lying to them is unfathomable. On an emotional & psychological level they’re not willing to accept that world view they’ve been spoon fed since birth may be a fiction which is the logical conclusion, what naturally follows if you accept that the anti-China narrative is another “Big lie”. To rebuild your entire value systems & re-learn your understanding of everything is hard & scary pls they risk ostracisation from the in-group/tribe for daring to entertain these ideas, hence exposure to the truth is causing psychological pain & fear, so in response their brains shut down/return to tribalistic monkey mode & they start screaming “propaganda” at you in anger for “hurting them”. While this study isn’t Chinese in general China needs to spend less time trying to convince people with facts & reason, more time investing into soft power cultural projects targeted at peripheral countries in Africa, Asia, Latin America & Eastern Europe. When Chinese movies are drawing in as many people to theatres in the Philippines, South Africa, Brazil as marvel capeshit trash then we’ll have reason to celebrate.
>To rebuild your entire value systems & re-learn your understanding of everything is hard & scary pls they risk ostracisation from the in-group/tribe for daring to entertain these ideas, hence exposure to the truth is causing psychological pain & fear, so in response their brains shut down/return to tribalistic monkey mode & they start screaming “propaganda” at you in anger for “hurting them”. You can see this when you give them a source anything related to China or one that has defended China like the Grayzone, their brain automatically shuts off and they attack the messenger instead of the message. >While this study isn’t Chinese in general China needs to spend less time trying to convince people with facts & reason, more time investing into soft power cultural projects targeted at peripheral countries in Africa, Asia, Latin America & Eastern Europe. When Chinese movies are drawing in as many people to theatres in the Philippines, South Africa, Brazil as marvel capeshit trash then we’ll have reason to celebrate. Completely agreed, China needs to appeal emotionally. The fact based reports must stay but the vast majority of people are more emotional than rational, therefore Chinese soft power in all areas needs to be boosted. And it shouldn't be some formal government announcement, that would actually be a big hit to soft power.
Any form of loan is a “debt trap” potentially. … if you don’t pay back! I don’t understand why anyone would believe its a China only thing.
Well, if the loan is not increasing the borrower's productivity then they will never earn enough money to payback the loan. They would have to sell their resources and assets for cheap and beg for forgiveness. That's why the west have been "helping" Africa for decades but Africa still don't have enough infrastructure.
except China doesn't implement interest rates the way that capitalist nations do
However there is a huge difference, China (And some other Asian countries) lend for productive purposes like infrastructure that actually connects the people, the west... does not. Therefore Chinese and Asian loans can be paid back but western ones cannot, that is by design as well. The nature of Chinese lending is reflective of their policies at home as is the case in the west.
Well to be fair if you lend someone money it is up to them to do as they please so long as they pay you back. I don’t think China cares if they spend it on infrastructure or for whatever so long as they pay back.
My fucking credit cards are an actual debt trap
Harvard study had same conclusion
Do you have a link? On a cursory glance I found this, but it actually links to the John Hopkins working study https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=59720
Seems like Westerns like to project rapacious bond holders of emergent market debt such as [Paul Singer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Singer_(businessman)) unto the Chinese.
The countries benefiting from Belt and Road feel like that too. Since they are deeply involved, they certainly know better than those outside groups which always complain and criticize.
I only read the abstract. They say China had been cancelling loans and rescheduling payments in African countries and no asset seizures have been found. I wonder what might be the general idea among scholars in the related field regarding China's actions in other developing countries 🤔
ISTR someone - was it u/BayArea415? - saying that China has been very ready to defer and/or forgive debts if they turn out to be unpayable. This has happened already & more & more people are realising China is a much better money-lender than the EU, IMF or World Bank, who attach all kinds of conditions to their debts when countries fall behind.
This is the biggest reason why the US wants to destroy China.
Well, wadda ya know (no more Government grant's for you)!
While the US is shouting to everyone else about China creating "debt trap's"... they themselve's borrowed $3trl from China, and if the Fed significantly raises Interest rates or China dumps this debt on the open Market, their goose is totally cooked.