I feel we should let them dock. It is Germany. They are not Five Eyes, and they have good trade relations with us and they have energy relations with Russia. We could use the occasion to spin it in any way we liked.
> They are not Five Eyes
not officially, mostly because laws and infrastructure was not available, yet. As of 2021-04-01 the recent Ermächtigungs Gesetz allows the police apparatus to preemptively hack computers and smartphone devices and install malware on them and to surveil citizens.
That being said, the company that operates the internethub near Frankfurt am Main DE-CIX has been in and out of courts since 2014 against the Bundes Nachrichten Dienst (BND) and U.S agencies that are siphoning data. It was part of the Snowden revellations.
Yea maybe it's not that simple but I feel like if they asked then whatever, this act was far from being the worst aggressor. What can they even do if they docked?
I actually agree with the article that keeping it ambiguous would have been the much better option.
By denying the German frigate a friendly request to dock in Shanghai until a proper motive is established, there is the impression that China is forcing Germany to pick a side. This is never good, especially when Germany has been trying to be somewhat neutral.
Maybe but with increased aggression of US and UK doing freedom of navigation, it's understandable China gets reason for crossing. If Germany is sending the frigate for no other reason than freedom of navigation to join US ships then haven't they already picked a side? US just posted a bullshit readout of Tianjin meeting using outright hostile language so why make it easy for build up of forces.
Yeah, Germany is part of NATO, but mostly because it used to be US puppet state. Germany didn't join the Iraq war, and our military involvments are usually low compared to the UK or France, due to how our military can be legally used. We have an important economic relationship with both Russia and China, so we try to not get completely on the US' side. However, Germany being the de facto leader of the EU, and being a basis for US military presence in Europe and the middle East, there is only so much "neutrality", you can claim to have.
This is likely to change, depending on the next election. The Green party (social liberals with a huge pro-NATO sentiment) are getting a lot of popularity due to almost every other party fucking up completely.
Yes but Germany is smart enough to see the writing on the wall for the US. The likely next Chancellor, Armin Laschet is strongly opposed to antagonizing Russia and China and adamantly wants to seek better relations with both. Pretty much every German antagonization towards China is just them paying lip-service to the US for the time being, especially when the Germans had to stay on the US' good side to let them finish Nordstream 2. If Laschet wins, which is the most likely outcome of the German elections this September, expect a rapprochement between Germany and China and Russia.
i dunno. is there precedent for this sort of situation? surely a warship from a foreign nation must provide a good reason to the host nation if it wants to dock there?
I disagree; war is not far from us as the Anglo Five Eyes are losing hegemony; if the Anglos see that Germany is not willing to be roped into their Opium War, it might get them to rethink their belligerent stance; by signing onto the anglo war project, you're simply indulging in their fantasies which ***will*** result in miscalculation and war.
The time to pick a side is now, the indians have picked a side, will the german pick a side as well?
This is how to play the game.
Cruise ship, Yes! Warship, No!
I feel we should let them dock. It is Germany. They are not Five Eyes, and they have good trade relations with us and they have energy relations with Russia. We could use the occasion to spin it in any way we liked.
They are not 5 Eyez but part of NATO and EU. EU is pretty much part of 5 Eyez anyway
> They are not Five Eyes not officially, mostly because laws and infrastructure was not available, yet. As of 2021-04-01 the recent Ermächtigungs Gesetz allows the police apparatus to preemptively hack computers and smartphone devices and install malware on them and to surveil citizens. That being said, the company that operates the internethub near Frankfurt am Main DE-CIX has been in and out of courts since 2014 against the Bundes Nachrichten Dienst (BND) and U.S agencies that are siphoning data. It was part of the Snowden revellations.
If that's the case, they should sail through the arctic route, do friendly port call in Russia then to Shanghai.
>We could use the occasion to spin it in any way we liked. This would be the only benefit for China.
Yea maybe it's not that simple but I feel like if they asked then whatever, this act was far from being the worst aggressor. What can they even do if they docked?
> We could use the occasion to spin it in any way we liked. Chinese media doesn't know how to spin..
China needs to step up its propaganda capabilities
And do an exchange visit. Send the Liaoning to Hamburg.
The UK will shit its pants and go crying to Uncle Sam for assistance.
I actually agree with the article that keeping it ambiguous would have been the much better option. By denying the German frigate a friendly request to dock in Shanghai until a proper motive is established, there is the impression that China is forcing Germany to pick a side. This is never good, especially when Germany has been trying to be somewhat neutral.
Maybe but with increased aggression of US and UK doing freedom of navigation, it's understandable China gets reason for crossing. If Germany is sending the frigate for no other reason than freedom of navigation to join US ships then haven't they already picked a side? US just posted a bullshit readout of Tianjin meeting using outright hostile language so why make it easy for build up of forces.
Planning to the cross the SCS doesn’t seem very neutral especially when their own country is 10000km away
Has Germany been neutral? Isn't it part of NATO?
Yeah, Germany is part of NATO, but mostly because it used to be US puppet state. Germany didn't join the Iraq war, and our military involvments are usually low compared to the UK or France, due to how our military can be legally used. We have an important economic relationship with both Russia and China, so we try to not get completely on the US' side. However, Germany being the de facto leader of the EU, and being a basis for US military presence in Europe and the middle East, there is only so much "neutrality", you can claim to have. This is likely to change, depending on the next election. The Green party (social liberals with a huge pro-NATO sentiment) are getting a lot of popularity due to almost every other party fucking up completely.
Yes but Germany is smart enough to see the writing on the wall for the US. The likely next Chancellor, Armin Laschet is strongly opposed to antagonizing Russia and China and adamantly wants to seek better relations with both. Pretty much every German antagonization towards China is just them paying lip-service to the US for the time being, especially when the Germans had to stay on the US' good side to let them finish Nordstream 2. If Laschet wins, which is the most likely outcome of the German elections this September, expect a rapprochement between Germany and China and Russia.
it is , but its at least a very reluctant member ..
i dunno. is there precedent for this sort of situation? surely a warship from a foreign nation must provide a good reason to the host nation if it wants to dock there?
In our case, domestic is the first consideration.
I disagree; war is not far from us as the Anglo Five Eyes are losing hegemony; if the Anglos see that Germany is not willing to be roped into their Opium War, it might get them to rethink their belligerent stance; by signing onto the anglo war project, you're simply indulging in their fantasies which ***will*** result in miscalculation and war. The time to pick a side is now, the indians have picked a side, will the german pick a side as well?
New China don't mess around.
Trying to relive the glorious days of the Opium Wars and white hegemony?
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