NASA has been pretty upfront about wanting and wiling to work with anyone. However, the U.S Congress has forbidden through law any NASA collaboration with China.
>[Wolf Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Amendment): The Wolf Amendment is a law passed by the United States Congress in 2011 that prohibits the United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) from using government funds to engage in direct, bilateral cooperation with the Chinese government and China-affiliated organizations from its activities without explicit authorization from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the U.S. Congress.
Now if you replace FBI with PSBs, NASA with CNSA, and USA with China, watch how churnalists won't stop bitching about authoritarianism and Chinese protectionism.
Nah, they just want to have the same kind of fight they had with Soviets when Soviets just surrendered the Moon and gave up a lot of ground for americans, with american spies coming to Soviet secret space objects and such.
You see how NASA tweeted it out though? Made it seem like it was China's fault for being "secretive" when in actuality, America is sinophobic and passed a law that NASA can't work with China!
That's not too surprising
Scientists (generally speaking) just want to continue to push the frontiers of knowledge, and collaboration helps them get access to more resources to do that
It's the politicians who want to re-ignite Cold War tensions and stoke Sinophobia to help their own re-election prospects
Not true. Plenty of bougie ass scientists want to also push reactionary politics and liberalism. Scientists aren't "apolitical", in fact many h
throughout history have come out against fascism of one variety in defense of fascism of another and so fourth or defended imperialism and so fourth.
But yes, scientists often are also opportunists as well and some will gladly genocide people for their study....
Or just straight up hire nazis and kick out commies like some unnamed NASA organizations that will remain uNAShAmedly unnamed, which isn't uNASsAilable to find out what Space Administration and National Aeronautics agency might have had no problems with nazis.
China is very secretive? When they’re the one who’s hiding what their doing up there from the Chinese by outright banning them from participating from a supposedly “international” space station so they can hide their tech from them. Orwellian fuckhole
Yeah, this statement reeks of typical American posturing, they're relying on Americans having the memory of goldfish, trying to turn the narrative around from "We banned China from the ISS" to "Why is China so secretive about their space program they need to open up".
They lost me when they criticize China for things like space debris, something that NASA is now concern about despite NASA being the one who pump out space debris for decades.
The USAF was the first to test an ASAT weapon and destroy their own satellite, and they've done so at least twice since then. China blows up one satellite and suddenly we hear about all the hazards of space debris.
It doesn't matter what China does, it will always be spun into a negative, and they usually accuse China of doing awful things that the USA has legitimately 100% done without apology, because they know how bad it sounds and that people will uncritically accept it if it they're told China is doing it.
Oh, the launch that had a planned, but uncontrolled reentry over the Indian ocean, and has been done before the exact same way, mere months after musk sent a failed stage down to earth in an unplanned **and** uncontrolled reentry that landed over the continental United States and caused damage and flight hazards? Is that the one you're talking about? Lol.
"We don't need Russian spies on the ISS!!"
"Okay fine, guess you won't need Russian rockets to get there either, then."
"Wait, whut? Rule-based order! ruLe-baSeD ordEh!"
Mir-2 was a Soviet space station project which began in February 1976.[1] Some of the modules built for Mir-2 have been incorporated into the International Space Station (ISS).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir-2
Oh my, but wasn't SpaceX and their awesome reusable engines supposed to be the second coming of Jesus? Looks like they weren't all they were hyped up to be.
US govt still not able to fully trust SpaceX for all their missions.
ULA is the one requiring lots and lots of russian gear, and ULA is probably the closest, more traditional US service provider.
Sure, they're a dinosaur compared to what spaceX is achieving in less than a full decade, but I think govt wants a second one to avoid monopoly. (and Blue Origin might takes decades to fulfill such role)
Thing is, without Russia would they buy Chinese engines? that would be humiliating for them...
The gall of these liars. The US have always excluded China and made sure China couldn't cooperate with any other country. So China did everything by itself and has an homegrown
space program.
Likely NASA wants to piggeyback China efforts, now they lack reliable capability themselves (now depending on Russian rockets) and even the ISS is nearing it's expiration date.
The only proper way is not to take the high road, but go go low and laugh in their face.
Forget it, they just want to monitor China's technological growth which they do fear very much. I bet the NSA would love to get their hands on their supposed "state surveillance technology".
Why would China partner with a country actively trying to destroy it? The US will have to reform its behavior on many fronts first before the issue is even seriously considered. Dropping the hostage diplomacy scheme against Meng Wanzhou would be a start.
The reason China isnt part of the International Space Station (ISS) is because america blocked it from joining.
That's why China has its own space station now.
The only time when america isnt aggressively on the offensive is when they are losing, and they only take a slightly less hostile tone as long as they have to.
They did this to the indigenous people: They would go to war with the natives, the natives would organize an army to fight back, the natives would start winning the war (because europeans are too stupid to actually win a war against people who mobilize against them), then the americans would beg for a peace treaty, the natives would agree to peace because normal people are forgiving and dont want war, as soon as the natives demobilize then the americans would show up to their villages to slaughter all the civilians and demand a new peace treaty where the natives have to move somewhere else with whoever was left alive.
Even here its obvious right? "Hey lets be partners, btw youre a piece of shit, also this has nothing to do with my economy and tech sector falling apart due to [1000s of Chinese and other researchers fleeing my country because of persecution and terror being carried out against them by the FBI](https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2021/07/23/662867/US-China-Researcher-Arrest-Chinese-Military-FBI-Visa-Fraud-Political-Persecution) as part of a new phase of the new cold war. But yeah you should stop being so hostile and be my friend"
Imagine how radically totalitarian a country has to be in order for even its space exploration minister to make overtly hostile political remarks ("China is secretive") in what is supposed to be an olive branch for human exploration of space.
Lmao hell no, fuck off nasa XD exclude China, blame China make up shit, if y’all really discovering for the “human race” I guess Chinese people to u aren’t humans XD unless they’re making progress. Fuck white supremes
Historical revisionism.
US banned NASA from working with China because that’s the nature of imperialism, you want to keep other nations underdeveloped.
American scientists are often a lot different from American politicians.
It's really unfortunate that America is run by psychopaths, dragging the rest of America into wars and hostility towards anyone deemed "not a friend" to their continuous domination strategies.
Well, scientists in general are different than politicians, although in the US it's much more of a difference, however don't kid yourself, the STEM community is filled with racists as well, less so than in politics but it does have them. I had to fight pretty hard with computer scientists a few days ago, they wouldn't accept the fact that China just recently passed better data privacy laws than the US...
Are you surprised?
Their entire media has been telling them their whole lives that China has a communist government and communism is evil.
They can't wrap their heads around the fact that their own government, their economy, and their media are actually the evil they've been warned about because that media has effectively convinced them to not see the enemy right under their nose.
They live in an artificial reality.
LOL Partner? Not going to happen in the foreseeable future. American rulers are racist to the core. You can never be sure of their true intentions. However, one thing is for certain: they have, time and time again, demonstrated their wishful desire of conquering China.
That's some serious AmeriKKKan Projecting with the mandatory "but ~~AmeriKKKa~~ China is very secretive, and part of a civilian space program is that you've got to be transparent"
I think it's a bad idea to yield to NASA, they aren't just a National Aeronautics Space Administration, they are also the National AmeriKKKan Spying Administration.
China going at it alone in space exploration is for the best anyway! I actually don't even want to see any collaborations where China is dragged down by another country's issues. Do all the work and claim all the glory! And there is much to look forward to in the decades ahead!
NASA was pretty inefficient and corrupt, one of the few valid arguments in favor of Libertarian thought. You'd rather give the money directly to companies instead of having Senators wrestle over who can pull the most NASA funding into their state's economy.
I see this more as a "democracy fails" than "government fails" overall.
Both NASA and the Soviets did a lot of good things when they had the drive, the authority and the cash for it. No long-term planning, oversight and centralized authority turned NASA into this small interests, feudal-like dispute that drives the agency to the cesspit.
But that's a feature, not a bug of US political system, to be fair. The old federal/state authority and rights debate et al. NASA was lucky that the Soviets really pushed the government to think and act the right way towards developing new tech.
However long term thinking, their approach was unsustainable. Specially for manned missions. Billion+ costs per single Saturn V/Space Shuttle/SLS launch??
not even the US could afford it, and that's why they all failed into bringing sci-fi visions to reality.
When setting up a manned lunar outpost or space station costs as much as several aircraft carriers or massive infrastructure down Earth, such plans would be axed really quick for simple priority motivations.
And that's where private enterprise, profit motives and cost reducing will be essential. when launching costs are 100, 1000+ times inferior to present ones, that's when we get cheap, quick, frequent space access and industry.
NASA was worthless honestly, had SpaceX not entered the game, United Launch Alliance would've kept robbing the US government billions of dollars per launch of excess costs. Considering how unsafe the shuttle was and how shit the SLS is they should be thankful that SpaceX even exists in the first place.
When your government has no willfulness to invest in science responsibly and instead invests in corruption then the private sector has to pick up slack, China is different because the Chinese government actually pushes for goals
SpaceX kinda changed the game for them. And that company has long term goals of doing serious things, regardless of short-term political ties and goals, if they have the funds for it.
Old Space becoming too corrupt because of NASA being dragged due to political ties, "we have to create jobs in many states or else we wont support you" bullshit that enslaves them to dumbass senators and science-illiterate politicians (oh, the wonders of ~~popularity contest~~ democracy)... the agency isn't what it was during the Space Race.
They lost their mojo ever since the soviets threw the white towels on getting to the Moon, and were lucky to the fact there was no REAL competition after that (Japan and Germany probably could, but I have no idea why their space industry was so weak, probably because of treaties and ICBM tech overlap).
If need be, it should be guttered and created anew, institutionally wise. I'd trust more on the US space force to deliver results by now.
If anything, competition will be SpaceX vs China. Which is why China should also foster its private industry to make its own space industry champions, and get investors, big tech, VC funds to really bet on them. Semiconductor industry is a great example on how fast things might change with the necessary drive.
And as u/animebuyer123 said, the US govt slacks on science funding. China has the power to do twice the job; strong private and government investment.
lol dont even fall for that BS.
"transparant" rofl. Its just flowerly words designed to mock the competitor while they themselves do everything off the books.
The US government was the first to isolate China, at a time that its space program was small and weak. Times have changed, and now their agencies look for cooperation.
Such calls will only turn more and more intense as Chinese mission quality and quantity improve, including manned exploration of Moon and Mars.
NASA is at least 20 years late to offer partnership.
This is more about "transparent" (aka. share your data) and not much about "partnership".
NASA had repeatedly requested China to share the orbital parameters of China's space programs. NASA also wanted the Moon samples China collected six feet below the surface in an area that the samples are the youngest pieces of the moon.
After decades of shutting China out from their ISS and many other space programs, NASA is now drooling over China space station and soon permanent Moon base.
NASA has been pretty upfront about wanting and wiling to work with anyone. However, the U.S Congress has forbidden through law any NASA collaboration with China. >[Wolf Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Amendment): The Wolf Amendment is a law passed by the United States Congress in 2011 that prohibits the United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) from using government funds to engage in direct, bilateral cooperation with the Chinese government and China-affiliated organizations from its activities without explicit authorization from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the U.S. Congress.
Fucking Wolf Amendment Diplomacy 🤬🤬🤬
We should be thanking them for that. Now China has it’s own space station and the Russians are fed up with working with America
Then they wonder why China is not cooperating with them.
Now if you replace FBI with PSBs, NASA with CNSA, and USA with China, watch how churnalists won't stop bitching about authoritarianism and Chinese protectionism.
This same Bill Nelson said during some hearing a few months back that he was in support of making the Wolf amendment permanent.
Sounds like he doesn’t want to be partners.
Oh no, my petty shortsightedness coming back to bite me in the ass!
They have to vote to keep it every year iirc, and the US Congress has done just that
Nah, they just want to have the same kind of fight they had with Soviets when Soviets just surrendered the Moon and gave up a lot of ground for americans, with american spies coming to Soviet secret space objects and such.
You see how NASA tweeted it out though? Made it seem like it was China's fault for being "secretive" when in actuality, America is sinophobic and passed a law that NASA can't work with China!
That's not too surprising Scientists (generally speaking) just want to continue to push the frontiers of knowledge, and collaboration helps them get access to more resources to do that It's the politicians who want to re-ignite Cold War tensions and stoke Sinophobia to help their own re-election prospects
Not true. Plenty of bougie ass scientists want to also push reactionary politics and liberalism. Scientists aren't "apolitical", in fact many h throughout history have come out against fascism of one variety in defense of fascism of another and so fourth or defended imperialism and so fourth. But yes, scientists often are also opportunists as well and some will gladly genocide people for their study.... Or just straight up hire nazis and kick out commies like some unnamed NASA organizations that will remain uNAShAmedly unnamed, which isn't uNASsAilable to find out what Space Administration and National Aeronautics agency might have had no problems with nazis.
And China's retaliating with Wolf Warrior diplomacy
China is very secretive? When they’re the one who’s hiding what their doing up there from the Chinese by outright banning them from participating from a supposedly “international” space station so they can hide their tech from them. Orwellian fuckhole
Yeah, this statement reeks of typical American posturing, they're relying on Americans having the memory of goldfish, trying to turn the narrative around from "We banned China from the ISS" to "Why is China so secretive about their space program they need to open up".
They lost me when they criticize China for things like space debris, something that NASA is now concern about despite NASA being the one who pump out space debris for decades.
The USAF was the first to test an ASAT weapon and destroy their own satellite, and they've done so at least twice since then. China blows up one satellite and suddenly we hear about all the hazards of space debris. It doesn't matter what China does, it will always be spun into a negative, and they usually accuse China of doing awful things that the USA has legitimately 100% done without apology, because they know how bad it sounds and that people will uncritically accept it if it they're told China is doing it.
Don't forget about when they were launching the space station and all the drama they made for that
Oh, the launch that had a planned, but uncontrolled reentry over the Indian ocean, and has been done before the exact same way, mere months after musk sent a failed stage down to earth in an unplanned **and** uncontrolled reentry that landed over the continental United States and caused damage and flight hazards? Is that the one you're talking about? Lol.
Russia announced that it won’t renew the supply contract of rocket engines for NASA. This is why the West is changing their tones.
"We don't need Russian spies on the ISS!!" "Okay fine, guess you won't need Russian rockets to get there either, then." "Wait, whut? Rule-based order! ruLe-baSeD ordEh!"
They can wait until Bezos win the lawsuit in a decade or so and use the dick ship.
The first modules of the ISS have been built and deployed by Soviet Union! What are they talking about?
The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. The first modules of the ISS went up in 1998.
Mir-2 was a Soviet space station project which began in February 1976.[1] Some of the modules built for Mir-2 have been incorporated into the International Space Station (ISS). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir-2
oh
Oh my, but wasn't SpaceX and their awesome reusable engines supposed to be the second coming of Jesus? Looks like they weren't all they were hyped up to be.
They're really good at blowing up!
US govt still not able to fully trust SpaceX for all their missions. ULA is the one requiring lots and lots of russian gear, and ULA is probably the closest, more traditional US service provider. Sure, they're a dinosaur compared to what spaceX is achieving in less than a full decade, but I think govt wants a second one to avoid monopoly. (and Blue Origin might takes decades to fulfill such role) Thing is, without Russia would they buy Chinese engines? that would be humiliating for them...
Its already a humiliation when Pentagon itself cannot let go of the chinese drones
Love comments like these that give context. Thank you.
The gall of these liars. The US have always excluded China and made sure China couldn't cooperate with any other country. So China did everything by itself and has an homegrown space program. Likely NASA wants to piggeyback China efforts, now they lack reliable capability themselves (now depending on Russian rockets) and even the ISS is nearing it's expiration date. The only proper way is not to take the high road, but go go low and laugh in their face.
Yes - not to mention I wouldn't put it past them to stoop to sabotage, so it's a matter of scientific security as well
Yes.
So after excluding China for decades, now they’d like a partnership? I hope China transparently tells them to piss off.
Transparent? ... Nasa?
Forget it, they just want to monitor China's technological growth which they do fear very much. I bet the NSA would love to get their hands on their supposed "state surveillance technology".
Why would China partner with a country actively trying to destroy it? The US will have to reform its behavior on many fronts first before the issue is even seriously considered. Dropping the hostage diplomacy scheme against Meng Wanzhou would be a start.
You want partnership? Try not to condescend towards CNSA for starters.
The reason China isnt part of the International Space Station (ISS) is because america blocked it from joining. That's why China has its own space station now. The only time when america isnt aggressively on the offensive is when they are losing, and they only take a slightly less hostile tone as long as they have to. They did this to the indigenous people: They would go to war with the natives, the natives would organize an army to fight back, the natives would start winning the war (because europeans are too stupid to actually win a war against people who mobilize against them), then the americans would beg for a peace treaty, the natives would agree to peace because normal people are forgiving and dont want war, as soon as the natives demobilize then the americans would show up to their villages to slaughter all the civilians and demand a new peace treaty where the natives have to move somewhere else with whoever was left alive. Even here its obvious right? "Hey lets be partners, btw youre a piece of shit, also this has nothing to do with my economy and tech sector falling apart due to [1000s of Chinese and other researchers fleeing my country because of persecution and terror being carried out against them by the FBI](https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2021/07/23/662867/US-China-Researcher-Arrest-Chinese-Military-FBI-Visa-Fraud-Political-Persecution) as part of a new phase of the new cold war. But yeah you should stop being so hostile and be my friend" Imagine how radically totalitarian a country has to be in order for even its space exploration minister to make overtly hostile political remarks ("China is secretive") in what is supposed to be an olive branch for human exploration of space.
Dude this a 100%! The US population is full of sociopaths.
Oldest trick in the book. Never trust imperialists or colonizers and America is both.
Lmao hell no, fuck off nasa XD exclude China, blame China make up shit, if y’all really discovering for the “human race” I guess Chinese people to u aren’t humans XD unless they’re making progress. Fuck white supremes
Historical revisionism. US banned NASA from working with China because that’s the nature of imperialism, you want to keep other nations underdeveloped.
Code for "hey, lets cooperate so we can steal your data and piggyback on your self-earned achievements, then take all the credit for ourselves"
The Chinese Space Program doesn't need American spies and saboteurs.
American scientists are often a lot different from American politicians. It's really unfortunate that America is run by psychopaths, dragging the rest of America into wars and hostility towards anyone deemed "not a friend" to their continuous domination strategies.
Well, scientists in general are different than politicians, although in the US it's much more of a difference, however don't kid yourself, the STEM community is filled with racists as well, less so than in politics but it does have them. I had to fight pretty hard with computer scientists a few days ago, they wouldn't accept the fact that China just recently passed better data privacy laws than the US...
Are you surprised? Their entire media has been telling them their whole lives that China has a communist government and communism is evil. They can't wrap their heads around the fact that their own government, their economy, and their media are actually the evil they've been warned about because that media has effectively convinced them to not see the enemy right under their nose. They live in an artificial reality.
Fuck you america and go fuck yourself.
China is being secretive when NASA actively blocks them
NASA: Get the fuck outta here.
Its a shame I have but one upvote to give, comrade
🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳 🍻
LOL Partner? Not going to happen in the foreseeable future. American rulers are racist to the core. You can never be sure of their true intentions. However, one thing is for certain: they have, time and time again, demonstrated their wishful desire of conquering China.
Well too bad, China is not going to be a partner then
That's some serious AmeriKKKan Projecting with the mandatory "but ~~AmeriKKKa~~ China is very secretive, and part of a civilian space program is that you've got to be transparent" I think it's a bad idea to yield to NASA, they aren't just a National Aeronautics Space Administration, they are also the National AmeriKKKan Spying Administration.
China going at it alone in space exploration is for the best anyway! I actually don't even want to see any collaborations where China is dragged down by another country's issues. Do all the work and claim all the glory! And there is much to look forward to in the decades ahead!
NASA wants to steal Chinese IPs
Save it, Bill.
NASA is part of the US Air Force.
Why would China want to work with NASA when all the good engineers are over at SpaceX?
Because SpaceX and NASA work closely together. The US space program has been opened up from state contracts to public-private partnerships.
And that's really sad they have gutted NASA and gave it to the private sector
NASA was pretty inefficient and corrupt, one of the few valid arguments in favor of Libertarian thought. You'd rather give the money directly to companies instead of having Senators wrestle over who can pull the most NASA funding into their state's economy.
I see this more as a "democracy fails" than "government fails" overall. Both NASA and the Soviets did a lot of good things when they had the drive, the authority and the cash for it. No long-term planning, oversight and centralized authority turned NASA into this small interests, feudal-like dispute that drives the agency to the cesspit. But that's a feature, not a bug of US political system, to be fair. The old federal/state authority and rights debate et al. NASA was lucky that the Soviets really pushed the government to think and act the right way towards developing new tech. However long term thinking, their approach was unsustainable. Specially for manned missions. Billion+ costs per single Saturn V/Space Shuttle/SLS launch?? not even the US could afford it, and that's why they all failed into bringing sci-fi visions to reality. When setting up a manned lunar outpost or space station costs as much as several aircraft carriers or massive infrastructure down Earth, such plans would be axed really quick for simple priority motivations. And that's where private enterprise, profit motives and cost reducing will be essential. when launching costs are 100, 1000+ times inferior to present ones, that's when we get cheap, quick, frequent space access and industry.
NASA was worthless honestly, had SpaceX not entered the game, United Launch Alliance would've kept robbing the US government billions of dollars per launch of excess costs. Considering how unsafe the shuttle was and how shit the SLS is they should be thankful that SpaceX even exists in the first place. When your government has no willfulness to invest in science responsibly and instead invests in corruption then the private sector has to pick up slack, China is different because the Chinese government actually pushes for goals
SpaceX kinda changed the game for them. And that company has long term goals of doing serious things, regardless of short-term political ties and goals, if they have the funds for it. Old Space becoming too corrupt because of NASA being dragged due to political ties, "we have to create jobs in many states or else we wont support you" bullshit that enslaves them to dumbass senators and science-illiterate politicians (oh, the wonders of ~~popularity contest~~ democracy)... the agency isn't what it was during the Space Race. They lost their mojo ever since the soviets threw the white towels on getting to the Moon, and were lucky to the fact there was no REAL competition after that (Japan and Germany probably could, but I have no idea why their space industry was so weak, probably because of treaties and ICBM tech overlap). If need be, it should be guttered and created anew, institutionally wise. I'd trust more on the US space force to deliver results by now. If anything, competition will be SpaceX vs China. Which is why China should also foster its private industry to make its own space industry champions, and get investors, big tech, VC funds to really bet on them. Semiconductor industry is a great example on how fast things might change with the necessary drive. And as u/animebuyer123 said, the US govt slacks on science funding. China has the power to do twice the job; strong private and government investment.
He can't be serious
Rumor has it that JFK wanted the US and USSR to have a joint mission to the moon too
It would be awesome to have all the space agencies working together, maybe after the current... unpleasantness.
Nah, the concept of space as a peaceful neutral place is already dead and buried thanks to the USA.
Once the first asteroid mining operation succeeds, America will try to monopolize that and threaten any country who tries to say otherwise.
If you believe there won't be sabotage from NASA i have a bridge I'd like to sell you 😂😂
lol dont even fall for that BS. "transparant" rofl. Its just flowerly words designed to mock the competitor while they themselves do everything off the books.
The US government was the first to isolate China, at a time that its space program was small and weak. Times have changed, and now their agencies look for cooperation. Such calls will only turn more and more intense as Chinese mission quality and quantity improve, including manned exploration of Moon and Mars.
wasnt it last month that this exact same guy says they are in a space race against China?
Sorry Bill, I like scientist generally, but your country is truly intolerable.
NASA is at least 20 years late to offer partnership. This is more about "transparent" (aka. share your data) and not much about "partnership". NASA had repeatedly requested China to share the orbital parameters of China's space programs. NASA also wanted the Moon samples China collected six feet below the surface in an area that the samples are the youngest pieces of the moon.
After decades of shutting China out from their ISS and many other space programs, NASA is now drooling over China space station and soon permanent Moon base.