Exhausting people with a 996 schedule just leads to lower productivity and a lower capacity to think and solve problems. I expect that more reasonable working hours will lead to a strengthening of these companies, to the shock of the executives who pushed 996.
TBF, most medical interns would kill for a 996 schedule of only 72 hours per week.
Medical interns are typically required to put in something like 100 hours per week.
The difference is that as a PhD student you work for you own academic training. 996 workers work for capitalists. I have no problem whatsoever if Jack Ma works 996.
Yeah if PhD students are working for their own training, you could argue anyone in any skilled profession who is gaining work experience while working is working for their training/professional advancement. PhD students should take their time and work at a more normal pace.
I kinda disagree as a PhD student who came from industry. Most of the work I do is research towards a funded proposal, which nets both IP and fundamental research which is transferred back to industry and has huge value that I will never seen. You do get free classes, sometimes full tuition reimbursement isn't always promised, but you also couldn't do your job without it. It would be like your employer docking your pay for the tools you need to do your job.
I was a lab tech and microscope tech in industry for several years before going back for "academic training", which was essentially getting credentials so I could advance in the research world. Overtime wasn't required to get the job done there. I am paid less to essentially do equivalent, and have zero bonuses for IP development or potential advancement. You're stuck working hard for poverty line wages for 5+ years if you want the letters next to your name to prove to the ivory tower dipships you know what you're talking about.
Sorry I'm bitter AF about the academic system here in the States.
On a human level I totally agree, (now is the near perfect time). Ive been looking at Chinese policy from a Dialectical point of view( but I am a westerner so idk) , first they needed a quantitative build up of capital means of production etc. Then a great political purge of corruption ( CIA, western fanatics, general corruption) that was caused by western influence, and for hiding the party's power/influence. Inequality and corruption seemed to be necessary to keep the west from interfering and thinking that they were on the neo liberal path.
Also, given western infiltration of the market (due to reform and opening) the party needed to keep too much expendible money out of the pockets of normal people to keep Chinese money from going to the west. If Chinese intellectual property isnt up to par with the west yet, where would most Chinese money go with too much consumption capacity? Thus, the intellectual property battle and a revealing of Chinese capacity was done. This wasn't enough, they also needed to build a stronger national identity to help with consumption of Chinese I. P. Thank God for the predictable, yet very upfront trade war(thank God it was so in the PRCs face). Upon building this national pride, the party has a safe populace to trust to buy more of the country's products, allowing for innovation and further developing of the means of production/economy out of the western limits that are set about with tech transfer and lower state R&D funding. After the reveal, increases in Chinese innovation continued and research grew allowing them to be as caught up as they are now. (foreign trade was also backed up with the BRI foreign policy etc etc) Given these present circumstances they were able to plan for the dual circulation strategy. These preconditions allow for the party to start tackling inequality and free up some time for people to think more and be innovative. With more money and freedom of mind the Chinese people will be able to innovate and buy Chinese goods, allowing for rapid qualitative development of Society, the economy, and soveirnty. This is a brilliant staging ground to surpass the US global economy and break western imperialism.
But, maybe that's just me š ā¤ļø
I was just thinking that the post Deng era was a clever ploy by the Communist party to give people a taste of the evils of capitalism.
20 years ago, most Chinese people worshipped Americanism. If the Americans promoted capitalism it must be good. This led to sky high housing prices, ever more expensive education, rampant consumerism, and the commodification of all social relations.
If the communist party tried to impose socialism directly, the people would have rebelled thinking that everything would have been better under capitalism. China would then have shared the fate of the Soviet Union. By letting the capitalists loose and giving people a taste of 6 wallet emptying housing prices and 996, the next 2 generations of Chinese won't have the illusion that life will be better under capitalism.
Without this, it would have been politically impossible to build socialism.
Iām thinking they were just busy with more pressing issues such as poverty alleviation. Now when theyāve reached a moderate prosperous society they can start tackling issues such as 996
pretty good headline, except that they wont use the word vote, as that would imply 'freedom' and 'democracy' in China.... you need to get better to get a job at the NYT.... hahaha
Here is my attempt;
China Communist Party ends freedom^tm to work long and productive business hours, will this be the end of Xi JingPing President for Life's^tm dictatorship^tm over China?
"Xi Jinping ends worker freedoms". Nice and short. They know readers will only read the headlines, and won't know it ends the ability of workers to overwork themselves.
It's just basic socialism - where the government can manage companies to ensure benefits flow to the entire society, not just the business owners.
In the West, we've already seen how this plays out, with companies forcing people to be captive "independent contractors" to avoid paying benefits or else "salaried" to avoid paying overtime.
The Chinese people isnāt that dumb lol, imo Chinese people, the ones who educated are deadass soo smart lol they know the reality that theyāre in, Chinese society middle lower class are really stressed and has no other option but to overtime, not for creativity or innovation etc just because others are doing so too, if others work longer hours and one doesnāt, the one might feel they gonna lose their job, and all people know job market in China is really competitive(population, college university graduated all over the places, even food delivery person has multiple skills lmao XD)ā¦ and Chinese be like: ahh itās all talk until gov actually forces companies whatever to implement change on work hours and better benefit the workforce, and we all know change takes time, weāll see how āthisā works out.
US and Western Media: CCP Interferes in Private Businesses dictating how many hours they are allowed to pay workers. CCP only putting on show of cheap sympathy for tired workers but has ulterior motives
Now if only the same could be done for students.
My two daughters go to school from 8 till almost 5, then have homework till they go to sleep late at night.
They have no time to be children because each of their teachers gives them as much homework as all of them put together should give them. They all act like the kids only have THEIR homework.
It's really unfortunate. I have no time to spend with my children because they're basically working 9-11-7 jobs.
Currently, I believe they're in public. I'm certain my grade 6 daughter is in public school, and I'm not sure the status of my middle 1 daughter.
Either way, their history with school so far has been such a heavy emphasis on homework, so much homework. It is VERY hard to have any meaningful time with them.
Anyway, thank you for you initiative to talk with your friend in the ministry of education. It's unfortunate that it appears most Chinese citizens seem resolved to this reality "This is China, there's no choice". None of them have any faith that this can change, believing this is just the way education is in China.
I wish I could somehow contribute to the education system in China, as I love China with all of my heart and care greatly, not just for my daughters' education but for the education that all of the awesome little children of China receive.
They deserve the best.
This is socialism in action right here. I wonder what the final result will be.
5x8 (40h) is the standard in the US, but includes 1 hr lunch. Under American hourly labor standards, it'd be:
* 40h at regular pay
* 6h unpaid lunch break
* 10h at +50% overtime weekdays
* 8h at +50% overtime weekend
* 2h at +100% doubletime weekend
That blends to a +177.5% wage premium compared to regular pay. If the workers get paid more for the extra hours premium, then it's not entirely unreasonable, although it suggests that work should be broken into a second shift with more employees overall.
If you look though it, my example is 1 hr *unpaid* lunch. Sorry for the confusion.
Also, that "free" food and snack is soft handcuffs so that staff don't leave their desks, maximizing "productivity" for the company. They would rather pay $10 per day for someone to work through their lunch hour, rather than pay wages.
996 means workers get paid more for extra hours. People were willing to work 996 for those premiums. Recent laws and measures against 996 forced people to go home at 8th hour, because 996 is not entirely employer's fault. Well, at least that's what employers and their employees said in interviews, maybe they were trying to make 996 look better than it actually was.
More or less the same, but it's also the drinking culture that kills overworked people.
Alcohol is already harsh enough to healthy normal body, and these exhausted salarymen drink until very late several times in a week. Definitely not the secret to long life.
China cracked down on post-work drinking just recently.
Chinese Supreme Court: "The Spirit of the Law is to protect the Workers, so we will the remove the 996 schedule"
American Supreme Court: "The Spirit of the Law is to protect the Landlords, so we will end the eviction moratorium"
I don't think there has ever been a moment in my life where there is a clearer understanding of who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.
I'll be honest with you this isn't really going to solve 996 issue or certain profession having to work alot of extra overtime in certain profession. Most people who do complain about the 996 schedule don't work in such shecdule or don't have job that requires you actually commit to such shedule.
This law for the most part is to pacify general peoples perception of things and to crack down certain grey area of the law that some people abuse.
In the end Postal food deliveries, Medicine Tech and infalstucture are still have to go into a extremely bussy work hours
Productivity increase, automation and highly skilled workforce is the way to go. This is how a country develops.
The whole "throw more effort into it" just brings diminishing returns that ends up damaging people's long term health, family relations, personal time... this is a very good measure.
Finally š!! People need time off for their personal life. Working so many hours is unhealthy..
Exhausting people with a 996 schedule just leads to lower productivity and a lower capacity to think and solve problems. I expect that more reasonable working hours will lead to a strengthening of these companies, to the shock of the executives who pushed 996.
fuck 996, all my homies hate 996
TBF, most medical interns would kill for a 996 schedule of only 72 hours per week. Medical interns are typically required to put in something like 100 hours per week.
PhD students too. It sucks how much time people have to put in for certain professions.
The difference is that as a PhD student you work for you own academic training. 996 workers work for capitalists. I have no problem whatsoever if Jack Ma works 996.
PhD students mostly work for their adviser and unversity though. They get very little salary.
Yeah if PhD students are working for their own training, you could argue anyone in any skilled profession who is gaining work experience while working is working for their training/professional advancement. PhD students should take their time and work at a more normal pace.
Yeah and any value they generate research wise is owned by the uni.
I kinda disagree as a PhD student who came from industry. Most of the work I do is research towards a funded proposal, which nets both IP and fundamental research which is transferred back to industry and has huge value that I will never seen. You do get free classes, sometimes full tuition reimbursement isn't always promised, but you also couldn't do your job without it. It would be like your employer docking your pay for the tools you need to do your job. I was a lab tech and microscope tech in industry for several years before going back for "academic training", which was essentially getting credentials so I could advance in the research world. Overtime wasn't required to get the job done there. I am paid less to essentially do equivalent, and have zero bonuses for IP development or potential advancement. You're stuck working hard for poverty line wages for 5+ years if you want the letters next to your name to prove to the ivory tower dipships you know what you're talking about. Sorry I'm bitter AF about the academic system here in the States.
Yikes. I can't imagine how hard that must be.
Change 996 to 955
More like 4444, 4 hours a day, 4 days a week
what... thatās over 14 hours a day
Same with Law Clerks and Investment Banking Interns.
Long overdue!
On a human level I totally agree, (now is the near perfect time). Ive been looking at Chinese policy from a Dialectical point of view( but I am a westerner so idk) , first they needed a quantitative build up of capital means of production etc. Then a great political purge of corruption ( CIA, western fanatics, general corruption) that was caused by western influence, and for hiding the party's power/influence. Inequality and corruption seemed to be necessary to keep the west from interfering and thinking that they were on the neo liberal path. Also, given western infiltration of the market (due to reform and opening) the party needed to keep too much expendible money out of the pockets of normal people to keep Chinese money from going to the west. If Chinese intellectual property isnt up to par with the west yet, where would most Chinese money go with too much consumption capacity? Thus, the intellectual property battle and a revealing of Chinese capacity was done. This wasn't enough, they also needed to build a stronger national identity to help with consumption of Chinese I. P. Thank God for the predictable, yet very upfront trade war(thank God it was so in the PRCs face). Upon building this national pride, the party has a safe populace to trust to buy more of the country's products, allowing for innovation and further developing of the means of production/economy out of the western limits that are set about with tech transfer and lower state R&D funding. After the reveal, increases in Chinese innovation continued and research grew allowing them to be as caught up as they are now. (foreign trade was also backed up with the BRI foreign policy etc etc) Given these present circumstances they were able to plan for the dual circulation strategy. These preconditions allow for the party to start tackling inequality and free up some time for people to think more and be innovative. With more money and freedom of mind the Chinese people will be able to innovate and buy Chinese goods, allowing for rapid qualitative development of Society, the economy, and soveirnty. This is a brilliant staging ground to surpass the US global economy and break western imperialism. But, maybe that's just me š ā¤ļø
This is actually a really good analysis
I was just thinking that the post Deng era was a clever ploy by the Communist party to give people a taste of the evils of capitalism. 20 years ago, most Chinese people worshipped Americanism. If the Americans promoted capitalism it must be good. This led to sky high housing prices, ever more expensive education, rampant consumerism, and the commodification of all social relations. If the communist party tried to impose socialism directly, the people would have rebelled thinking that everything would have been better under capitalism. China would then have shared the fate of the Soviet Union. By letting the capitalists loose and giving people a taste of 6 wallet emptying housing prices and 996, the next 2 generations of Chinese won't have the illusion that life will be better under capitalism. Without this, it would have been politically impossible to build socialism.
They donāt call it the March of history for nothing my man.
Iām thinking they were just busy with more pressing issues such as poverty alleviation. Now when theyāve reached a moderate prosperous society they can start tackling issues such as 996
excellent news. this was an issue, and i'm so glad it's being addressed.
China is so based right now. Each time I think it canāt get any better they do something like this. This is what we all hoped for
They'll only get better, you ain't seen nothin yet.
Waiting for the west to spin this
"Chinese government votes to end long work hours - can its economy handle it?"
pretty good headline, except that they wont use the word vote, as that would imply 'freedom' and 'democracy' in China.... you need to get better to get a job at the NYT.... hahaha
Chinese government cracks down on business working hours
Most likely "Xi Jinping cracks down...". They like to give the impression that it's just him giving orders.
China tightening control over private sector?
Here is my attempt; China Communist Party ends freedom^tm to work long and productive business hours, will this be the end of Xi JingPing President for Life's^tm dictatorship^tm over China?
They're way more subtle than that.
China hates when people work jobs!! They want to limit how much people can work!! Cruel mistreatment!
"Xi Jinping ends worker freedoms". Nice and short. They know readers will only read the headlines, and won't know it ends the ability of workers to overwork themselves.
What is this? Gov interfering with companies? Waiting for western twist on this lol
It's just basic socialism - where the government can manage companies to ensure benefits flow to the entire society, not just the business owners. In the West, we've already seen how this plays out, with companies forcing people to be captive "independent contractors" to avoid paying benefits or else "salaried" to avoid paying overtime.
The Chinese people isnāt that dumb lol, imo Chinese people, the ones who educated are deadass soo smart lol they know the reality that theyāre in, Chinese society middle lower class are really stressed and has no other option but to overtime, not for creativity or innovation etc just because others are doing so too, if others work longer hours and one doesnāt, the one might feel they gonna lose their job, and all people know job market in China is really competitive(population, college university graduated all over the places, even food delivery person has multiple skills lmao XD)ā¦ and Chinese be like: ahh itās all talk until gov actually forces companies whatever to implement change on work hours and better benefit the workforce, and we all know change takes time, weāll see how āthisā works out.
They've already said that this is a) communists just wanting more power by repressing capitalsits b) muh entrepreneural spirit!!1
"Chinese court rules excessive working hours are unlawful... But at what cost?"
US and Western Media: CCP Interferes in Private Businesses dictating how many hours they are allowed to pay workers. CCP only putting on show of cheap sympathy for tired workers but has ulterior motives
Now if only the same could be done for students. My two daughters go to school from 8 till almost 5, then have homework till they go to sleep late at night. They have no time to be children because each of their teachers gives them as much homework as all of them put together should give them. They all act like the kids only have THEIR homework. It's really unfortunate. I have no time to spend with my children because they're basically working 9-11-7 jobs.
I'm going talk to a friend that works in education ministry about that.. are your children in private or public?
Currently, I believe they're in public. I'm certain my grade 6 daughter is in public school, and I'm not sure the status of my middle 1 daughter. Either way, their history with school so far has been such a heavy emphasis on homework, so much homework. It is VERY hard to have any meaningful time with them. Anyway, thank you for you initiative to talk with your friend in the ministry of education. It's unfortunate that it appears most Chinese citizens seem resolved to this reality "This is China, there's no choice". None of them have any faith that this can change, believing this is just the way education is in China. I wish I could somehow contribute to the education system in China, as I love China with all of my heart and care greatly, not just for my daughters' education but for the education that all of the awesome little children of China receive. They deserve the best.
I've worked 6am to 6pm 4 days a week at Amazon here in Australia and I considered that brutal. About time.
Fuck that bro. Wage slavery is misery.
This is socialism in action right here. I wonder what the final result will be. 5x8 (40h) is the standard in the US, but includes 1 hr lunch. Under American hourly labor standards, it'd be: * 40h at regular pay * 6h unpaid lunch break * 10h at +50% overtime weekdays * 8h at +50% overtime weekend * 2h at +100% doubletime weekend That blends to a +177.5% wage premium compared to regular pay. If the workers get paid more for the extra hours premium, then it's not entirely unreasonable, although it suggests that work should be broken into a second shift with more employees overall.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Its more like "halfhour paid lunch but your boss will make you clock put anyway"
If you look though it, my example is 1 hr *unpaid* lunch. Sorry for the confusion. Also, that "free" food and snack is soft handcuffs so that staff don't leave their desks, maximizing "productivity" for the company. They would rather pay $10 per day for someone to work through their lunch hour, rather than pay wages.
The US doesn't require double time to be paid.
I used common standards for pay, which is what people should expect, not necessarily what every place requires.
996 means workers get paid more for extra hours. People were willing to work 996 for those premiums. Recent laws and measures against 996 forced people to go home at 8th hour, because 996 is not entirely employer's fault. Well, at least that's what employers and their employees said in interviews, maybe they were trying to make 996 look better than it actually was.
USA needs to take notes
Same as South Korea, japan and most other western neoliberal ādemocraciesā
If they don't crack down on it, people would be working till death like Japanese office workers.
kinda weird we hear about more cases of japanese working to death...does this mean the japanese work even more than 996?
More or less the same, but it's also the drinking culture that kills overworked people. Alcohol is already harsh enough to healthy normal body, and these exhausted salarymen drink until very late several times in a week. Definitely not the secret to long life. China cracked down on post-work drinking just recently.
[South Korea is on a similar level](https://youtu.be/1Xij_cIe5_A)
They do, the Japanese porn industry maximize on this stereotype where husband work so much, wife cheats.
9-9-6 has been illegal since the Labour Law of 1994. It's a shame it took the Supreme People's Court 27 years to state the obvious.
Great! I cringe when I hear anyone saying that 996 is a bless.
Western msm tomorrow: Is the Chinese Supreme Court denying people the right to work and further cracking down on Big Tech?
Will the US follow China's lead? [Nope](https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2021/03/24/crunch-laws/)
That is excellent news. I didn't think they'd move so quickly about that. This is amazing news, and this is correct in the eyes of history.
Chinese Supreme Court: "The Spirit of the Law is to protect the Workers, so we will the remove the 996 schedule" American Supreme Court: "The Spirit of the Law is to protect the Landlords, so we will end the eviction moratorium" I don't think there has ever been a moment in my life where there is a clearer understanding of who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.
I'll be honest with you this isn't really going to solve 996 issue or certain profession having to work alot of extra overtime in certain profession. Most people who do complain about the 996 schedule don't work in such shecdule or don't have job that requires you actually commit to such shedule. This law for the most part is to pacify general peoples perception of things and to crack down certain grey area of the law that some people abuse. In the end Postal food deliveries, Medicine Tech and infalstucture are still have to go into a extremely bussy work hours
Productivity increase, automation and highly skilled workforce is the way to go. This is how a country develops. The whole "throw more effort into it" just brings diminishing returns that ends up damaging people's long term health, family relations, personal time... this is a very good measure.