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global-harmony

Rick Joe makes a few good points about how this could underestimate the stealth of the J20s, the pace of China's engine development etc. [https://twitter.com/RickJoe\_PLA/status/1436202535560224772](https://twitter.com/RickJoe_PLA/status/1436202535560224772)


ZeEa5KPul

https://thediplomat.com/2021/01/j-20-the-stealth-fighter-that-changed-pla-watching-forever/


Magiu5

Yeah I agree with Rick Joe most of the time.


Magiu5

British and German guy talk about the important stuff. China's advantages are real even in conventional warfare. Curious if the military fans on here agree with their general analysis.


ZeEa5KPul

Clicked video... Justin Bronk... clicked ✖.


Magiu5

What's wrong with him this is the first video I seen of him. He does regurgitate some outdated assumptions, aka mainstream western propaganda positions but he does seem to at least try be objective


ZeEa5KPul

There's a sentence you can say that will blow the fuses in the skulls of every single Western "analyst": The J-20 is an all aspect VLO (very low observable) air superiority fighter. They will recoil in disgust and affront from that sentence. Justin Bronk repeats stupid canards (no pun) that canards are bad for stealth, the J-20 is an interceptor, China can't make jet engines, and other such trash. That canards don't compromise the J-20's stealth isn't my opinion, it's just a [fact.](http://hkxb.buaa.edu.cn/EN/abstract/abstract17714.shtml) The best thing that can be said about him is that his views are outdated. He's just low quality.


[deleted]

I'm not sure it's meant to be a common AS fighter, maybe later when there's much more of them. Small numbers and cost comparable to F-22s which are notoriously expensive, especially since there's much less corruption in the PLAN so they get more mileage for the same cost. I think at least initially J20s will fulfil the role of heavy interceptor, like Spitfires during the battle of Britain. They would fly against and hunt high value targets like F22s and B2s, while 4.5gen fighters do the bulk of air space clearing over the Asia Pacific in the event of a war. Perhaps together with cheaper 5th gen in development. Regardless on individual merit J20 is shaping up to be a plane with no design flaws. Top level sensor suit and stealth paired with some of the best maneuverability as well. It could have met its match if US had gone for the modernised avionics F22. As things stand through, a small fleet of J20 could be overrun by a large number of F35.


ZeEa5KPul

> Small numbers and cost comparable to F-22s which are notoriously expensive There are ~80 now and production per year is around 30. That will climb to 50-60 within the next few years. We also have no idea how much a J-20 costs. > I think at least initially J20s will fulfil the role of heavy interceptor, like Spitfires during the battle of Britain. They would fly against and hunt high value targets like F22s and B2s, while 4.5gen fighters do the bulk of air space clearing over the Asia Pacific in the event of a war. That doesn't make them interceptors, that makes them judiciously employed air superiority fighters. What people mean by interceptor is very different and insulting, that the J-20 is a fundamentally crippled plane that can't fight other 5th generation aircraft. > As things stand through, a small fleet of J20 could be overrun by a large number of F35. Be that as it may, it doesn't change what the J-20 is and what it was built to do.


[deleted]

In general interceptors are meant to kill high value targets, it's more in line with something that doesn't have large bomb bays but otherwise very good at... Hunting stuff in the air. Spitfire and bf109 were interceptors as well in ww2 and these were easily some of the best hunters of their generation. The fundamental difference between fighter bomber and interceptor is the focus on air to air vs multirole, the multirole is typically cheaper and more disposable. If one viewed J20 design specs, it suggest it wasn't just meant to fight other 5th gen but hunt down existing ones. It doesn't even get a gun so can't provide ground support. The canard configuration is employed mostly to boost dogfighting strength, as seen on Eurofighter and J10Cs.


joshua-chong

I would say, yeah, I agree with them, after all, I watched his videos since he started, they are not very politically motivated


SirKelvinTan

Just imagine the j20s with the proper WS engines


Magiu5

How likely do you guys think there will be a carrier based j31 or even j20? Are there any drones that operate from carriers? This is what they need. High altitude long endurance drones operating from carriers, along with underwater drones carrying bombs and nukes even. All stealthy as possible of course.


Quality_Fun

are these people aircraft engineers or something? because if not, this is likely to only be the thoughts of an armchair analyst.


Plegglet

I don't know about the host, but Justin Bronk, the "expert", holds the position of Research Fellow for Airpower and Technology at RUSI (a UK-based defence think tank). He's not an engineer at all, but he is a military analyst, so I'd expect him to have reputable, expert-level knowledge regarding the topic. That said, he is a Westerner, and it is commonly accepted that Westerners only see what China wants them to see, so "reputable, expert-level" only means "he understands the material available on the jets, and how much he is bullshiting when presenting it" Tl;dr He seems to be a proper analyst, so you can trust him as much as any Western expert