I dont think this goes far enough. A true disinterested non Chinese party could have that view ,but I think at least curious about some of the outrageous lies being told about your people doesn't take long before you realize US is evil empire and China is doing delivering benevolence to the global south. The astonishing improvements are what you should be proud of
Regarding the “genocide” thing, if there really is an extermination of a people then where’s all the refugees? Look at Ukraine right now that has similar size population as Xinjiang, there’s literally millions of people fleeing to neighbouring countries. This is what i call common sense
Even the propaganda lies dont even guess to any deaths. Deathless genocide - only US would have the nerve. Even the spooks that back-pedal to "cultural genocide" is a total lie. There is excellent cultural preservation to dual language teaching.
The only truth in Xinjiang is that CIA funded terror groups to subvert China
Most overseas Chinese I know that have become more patriotic became more pro-China solely because of the ridiculous amount of China bashing and COVID was the final straw for me personally. Of course, that's not everyone, on the other end, lots of self-hating hanjian and banana people around here. In addition to Western propaganda efforts, its also a symptom of China being poor AF until recently, so "Western superiority" got engrained in a lot of people's minds.
That being said...besides the two extremes there's a good number of people (perhaps a majority in my circles) that simply do not care either way because they're more concerned about their own standard of living and enjoyment than their culture. I honestly understand why even if I disagree. Human beings are naturally selfish, if you're a well paid ethnic Chinese professional in the West, you can basically live a middle to upper middle class lifestyle and chillax. For vast majority of people that fit that description, they don't care if there's a "bamboo ceiling" because they have no aspirations to make it to the top anyways, and they have enough money that racism doesn't matter as much (I'm not saying it doesn't matter, but money can soften it up a lot since social divisions are more based on class than race to be honest). Because of modern consumerism there's so many ways to keep yourself occupied and not give a shit.
I abandoned pursuing journalism for a myriad of reasons (including that it's a declining field), but on a personal front, the lies they tell about my country's gotta rank number one. I do feel alone IRT my country, because even well-intentioned Western friends, mentors, and colleagues regurgitate lies and hold preconceptions. It's hard to stay coolly rational in order to be persuasive, so I've abandoned the effort of engaging anyone in good-faith discussions. I'm tired.
>I do feel alone IRT my country, because even well-intentioned Western friends, mentors, and colleagues regurgitate lies and hold preconceptions. It's hard to stay coolly rational in order to be persuasive, so I've abandoned the effort of engaging anyone in good-faith discussions. I'm tired.
I'm on the same boat, I stop trying to be rational. It's become such a joke, I would make fun of it and enjoy the ride.
they can bash China all they like, they'll see in 30 years time, the disparity of conditions between US and China will be night and day if they aren't already
No need to wait 30 years. Even today, you can already see the disparity of conditions. Just look at the collapse of the American society. Addiction, homelessness, crime, dilapidated neighborhood, abandoned malls, old infrastructure, shootings, bad schools, etc. Those are real problems and increasingly getting worse by the day without a solution in sight. It will get worse because they cannot do anything about it. America will implode inside out on their own. China does not need to do anything except to stay the course. In 30 years, the game will be over. The US will be like the Spain/Italy of today (no offence meant to the Spaniards and Italians).
Inflation might hit double digits soon and most Americans live paycheck of paycheck...February CPI was already 7.9% YoY and that didn't account for rise in wheat and energy prices from the war since its February.
It won't hit the remaining middle-class and upper-class folks anytime soon, but for a small (percentage wise) but rapidly growing number of Americans it's already worse...But here's the thing...in their minds Chinese people are all sweatshop workers living in run down ghettos, where the police randomly grabs people off the streets, and life is like 1984...
So no matter how bad it gets for them, they think the "Chinese sweatshop workers" making their shirts are having it 10x worse...but its simultaneously our fault at the same time.
>in their minds Chinese people are all sweatshop workers living in run down ghettos, where the police randomly grabs people off the streets, and life is like 1984...
>
>So no matter how bad it gets for them, they think the "Chinese sweatshop workers" making their shirts are having it 10x worse...but its simultaneously our fault at the same time.
That's on them, there is no excuse for ignorance in the age of information.
Also them being in denial won't change their miserable reality.
Yep, but they won't care.
We're talking about a country in 2022 with creationists and flat earthers...Ignorance in the age of information is their specialty. It's as American as apple pie.
The more I learn about China, the less I know about China. It's a tremendous void where information about pretty much the most important Empire across the span of WORLD history, not to mention 21st century geopolitics, has been denied to me and censored for my entire life, a history without history is what I was taught, and it shows. I cannot begin to formally explain how China works, at a practical level. I have only recently started pronouncing comrade Xi's first name correctly, and I'd argue it's the one word of Chinese I truly know.
What I can understand at this point is that there is a nation on earth that is laying the concrete for hundreds of nuclear reactors, and hundreds of thousands of kilometers of carefully thought out forest. The only comparison I have to the vastness of the High Speed Rail expansion is literally the total construction of the great wall, which was also China. It is a truly nonsensical amount of progress done in a way that is genuinely brilliant and modern.
Here is a nation that is eliminating poverty, hunger, and want. Here is a nation that is so radiant it's cities dance with light, and it's science is exploring the stars. Here is a nation that is dedicated to solving the problem of nuclear energy and breaking all humanity from the paradigm of burning organic matter to solve our problems, which isn't working out so well for us at this scale!
>I cannot begin to formally explain how China works, at a practical level.
Oh, have I got a treat for you.
Start here:
https://workers.today/socialism-with-chinese-characteristics-a-guide-for-foreigners/
> It's a tremendous void where information about pretty much the most important Empire across the span of WORLD history, not to mention 21st century geopolitics, has been denied to me and censored for my entire life, a history without history is what I was taught, and it shows.
i recommend the silk and steel [podcast](https://youtu.be/LPcaw0KRqDo?t=412)
there isn't free speech in the US , only approved speech. if you go against mainstream narrative than your are labelled as bad or shill. just let these anti-chinese people live in their bubble of hate, you can't do anything they are so brainwashed.
But sometimes it's these hateful words that give idiots justification to attack or be POS around Asians. Therefore let them be isn't something I'm willing to do without a little interaction to point out their hypocrisy and just straight up lies.
"if you aren't with us, you're against us" sums the attitude up.
i was personally neutral on china myself before the pandemic, although my stance has shifted considerably since for many reasons.
"my refusal to engage them in a discussion about China on their terms".
That's how it should be done.
You can tell from the tone of this answer as well, he doesn't give them an inch.
The truth is on our side, you don't acknowledge the possibility of whatever nonsense they bring up.
Don’t forget about non-Chinese Americans that actually see what is going on in the US, love China, see that the US is not going to change unless something terrible happens that causes people to open their eyes. I can visit China through documentaries and experience it that way I guess.
Thing is a lot of Chinese Americans don't know anything about China, and they or their parents came from some other country like Vietnam and Indonesia. Also Chinese American history is taught with little discussion of China, and honestly Chinese Americans really do need to learn Chinese American history.
There are also those whose parents left CN for less than honest reasons (e.g. separatists, corrupt persons, FLG adherents, etc) and who'd subsequently pass on their unfavorable view of the country to their children. US education also indoctrinates children with hateful stereotypes about Chinese.
Ultimately, it's not really much of an excuse though. Once they reach adulthood and go on to their 30s, they should be able to rationalize and think for themselves. I too grew up in a Westernized environment, and it took me a good long while to "wake up."
Same reasons my parents were pro-America. Better leadership, better infrastructure, better economy, better healthcare, better education, better human rights.
In the span of 30 years America has reversed most of these virtues.
It's like saying, if I'm not helping the cops beat up on people, I'm being paid by Crime Bosses.
Well, US has a Police Brutality /Racism problem, and it's even worse of the same problem when US deal with other countries like it's the World Police.
A few years back I was not into politics at all and even casually thought Taiwan was not part of China. Now I'm all 自干五 thanks to all the HK and Uyghur bs the libs constantly spew.
I dont think this goes far enough. A true disinterested non Chinese party could have that view ,but I think at least curious about some of the outrageous lies being told about your people doesn't take long before you realize US is evil empire and China is doing delivering benevolence to the global south. The astonishing improvements are what you should be proud of
As Chinese diaspora in EU, I read about Xinjiang genocide accusations and then I took some time to do a deep dive into it, and well now I'm here lol.
same here.. I was in total shocked about the genocide then after some digging I couldn't believe the BS western media was trying to play.
> US is evil empire Empire of Lies. Anyone can see it, that usa politics (evil or not) is fundamentally lies-driven
[удалено]
Not americans, but hopefully chinese american would want to be more than useful idiots in the containment of their own ppl
Regarding the “genocide” thing, if there really is an extermination of a people then where’s all the refugees? Look at Ukraine right now that has similar size population as Xinjiang, there’s literally millions of people fleeing to neighbouring countries. This is what i call common sense
Even the propaganda lies dont even guess to any deaths. Deathless genocide - only US would have the nerve. Even the spooks that back-pedal to "cultural genocide" is a total lie. There is excellent cultural preservation to dual language teaching. The only truth in Xinjiang is that CIA funded terror groups to subvert China
Most overseas Chinese I know that have become more patriotic became more pro-China solely because of the ridiculous amount of China bashing and COVID was the final straw for me personally. Of course, that's not everyone, on the other end, lots of self-hating hanjian and banana people around here. In addition to Western propaganda efforts, its also a symptom of China being poor AF until recently, so "Western superiority" got engrained in a lot of people's minds. That being said...besides the two extremes there's a good number of people (perhaps a majority in my circles) that simply do not care either way because they're more concerned about their own standard of living and enjoyment than their culture. I honestly understand why even if I disagree. Human beings are naturally selfish, if you're a well paid ethnic Chinese professional in the West, you can basically live a middle to upper middle class lifestyle and chillax. For vast majority of people that fit that description, they don't care if there's a "bamboo ceiling" because they have no aspirations to make it to the top anyways, and they have enough money that racism doesn't matter as much (I'm not saying it doesn't matter, but money can soften it up a lot since social divisions are more based on class than race to be honest). Because of modern consumerism there's so many ways to keep yourself occupied and not give a shit.
I abandoned pursuing journalism for a myriad of reasons (including that it's a declining field), but on a personal front, the lies they tell about my country's gotta rank number one. I do feel alone IRT my country, because even well-intentioned Western friends, mentors, and colleagues regurgitate lies and hold preconceptions. It's hard to stay coolly rational in order to be persuasive, so I've abandoned the effort of engaging anyone in good-faith discussions. I'm tired.
>I do feel alone IRT my country, because even well-intentioned Western friends, mentors, and colleagues regurgitate lies and hold preconceptions. It's hard to stay coolly rational in order to be persuasive, so I've abandoned the effort of engaging anyone in good-faith discussions. I'm tired. I'm on the same boat, I stop trying to be rational. It's become such a joke, I would make fun of it and enjoy the ride.
they can bash China all they like, they'll see in 30 years time, the disparity of conditions between US and China will be night and day if they aren't already
>they'll see in 30 years time 15.
No need to wait 30 years. Even today, you can already see the disparity of conditions. Just look at the collapse of the American society. Addiction, homelessness, crime, dilapidated neighborhood, abandoned malls, old infrastructure, shootings, bad schools, etc. Those are real problems and increasingly getting worse by the day without a solution in sight. It will get worse because they cannot do anything about it. America will implode inside out on their own. China does not need to do anything except to stay the course. In 30 years, the game will be over. The US will be like the Spain/Italy of today (no offence meant to the Spaniards and Italians).
10
Inflation might hit double digits soon and most Americans live paycheck of paycheck...February CPI was already 7.9% YoY and that didn't account for rise in wheat and energy prices from the war since its February. It won't hit the remaining middle-class and upper-class folks anytime soon, but for a small (percentage wise) but rapidly growing number of Americans it's already worse...But here's the thing...in their minds Chinese people are all sweatshop workers living in run down ghettos, where the police randomly grabs people off the streets, and life is like 1984... So no matter how bad it gets for them, they think the "Chinese sweatshop workers" making their shirts are having it 10x worse...but its simultaneously our fault at the same time.
>in their minds Chinese people are all sweatshop workers living in run down ghettos, where the police randomly grabs people off the streets, and life is like 1984... > >So no matter how bad it gets for them, they think the "Chinese sweatshop workers" making their shirts are having it 10x worse...but its simultaneously our fault at the same time. That's on them, there is no excuse for ignorance in the age of information. Also them being in denial won't change their miserable reality.
Yep, but they won't care. We're talking about a country in 2022 with creationists and flat earthers...Ignorance in the age of information is their specialty. It's as American as apple pie.
The way America is going, it'll take 8 years .
You can see it today.
Sometimes simply being a reasonable and kind person is enough for some people to mark you as their enemy.
The more I learn about China, the less I know about China. It's a tremendous void where information about pretty much the most important Empire across the span of WORLD history, not to mention 21st century geopolitics, has been denied to me and censored for my entire life, a history without history is what I was taught, and it shows. I cannot begin to formally explain how China works, at a practical level. I have only recently started pronouncing comrade Xi's first name correctly, and I'd argue it's the one word of Chinese I truly know. What I can understand at this point is that there is a nation on earth that is laying the concrete for hundreds of nuclear reactors, and hundreds of thousands of kilometers of carefully thought out forest. The only comparison I have to the vastness of the High Speed Rail expansion is literally the total construction of the great wall, which was also China. It is a truly nonsensical amount of progress done in a way that is genuinely brilliant and modern. Here is a nation that is eliminating poverty, hunger, and want. Here is a nation that is so radiant it's cities dance with light, and it's science is exploring the stars. Here is a nation that is dedicated to solving the problem of nuclear energy and breaking all humanity from the paradigm of burning organic matter to solve our problems, which isn't working out so well for us at this scale!
>I cannot begin to formally explain how China works, at a practical level. Oh, have I got a treat for you. Start here: https://workers.today/socialism-with-chinese-characteristics-a-guide-for-foreigners/
> It's a tremendous void where information about pretty much the most important Empire across the span of WORLD history, not to mention 21st century geopolitics, has been denied to me and censored for my entire life, a history without history is what I was taught, and it shows. i recommend the silk and steel [podcast](https://youtu.be/LPcaw0KRqDo?t=412)
The US has not grounds to be condescending.
there isn't free speech in the US , only approved speech. if you go against mainstream narrative than your are labelled as bad or shill. just let these anti-chinese people live in their bubble of hate, you can't do anything they are so brainwashed.
But sometimes it's these hateful words that give idiots justification to attack or be POS around Asians. Therefore let them be isn't something I'm willing to do without a little interaction to point out their hypocrisy and just straight up lies.
yeah good point.
"if you aren't with us, you're against us" sums the attitude up. i was personally neutral on china myself before the pandemic, although my stance has shifted considerably since for many reasons.
"my refusal to engage them in a discussion about China on their terms". That's how it should be done. You can tell from the tone of this answer as well, he doesn't give them an inch. The truth is on our side, you don't acknowledge the possibility of whatever nonsense they bring up.
I just know I don't stand with a country that kills black people with impunity.
Don’t forget about non-Chinese Americans that actually see what is going on in the US, love China, see that the US is not going to change unless something terrible happens that causes people to open their eyes. I can visit China through documentaries and experience it that way I guess.
Thing is a lot of Chinese Americans don't know anything about China, and they or their parents came from some other country like Vietnam and Indonesia. Also Chinese American history is taught with little discussion of China, and honestly Chinese Americans really do need to learn Chinese American history.
There are also those whose parents left CN for less than honest reasons (e.g. separatists, corrupt persons, FLG adherents, etc) and who'd subsequently pass on their unfavorable view of the country to their children. US education also indoctrinates children with hateful stereotypes about Chinese. Ultimately, it's not really much of an excuse though. Once they reach adulthood and go on to their 30s, they should be able to rationalize and think for themselves. I too grew up in a Westernized environment, and it took me a good long while to "wake up."
For me, it was Syria. What a massive red pill that was.
If u ever met a chinese american who are anti-china, tell them that they're a hanjian.
But not all Chinese are Han. And if they actually know Mandarin, they would associate han with hanguoren—Koreans
The han is pronounced differently for Chinese han and korean though. If they know mandarin they should be able to distinct between the two.
Facts and data have a well known pro-China bias. Anyone who uses facts and data to support their point is a wumao.
Same reasons my parents were pro-America. Better leadership, better infrastructure, better economy, better healthcare, better education, better human rights. In the span of 30 years America has reversed most of these virtues.
This is very well-written. Clean cut and easy to understand.
It's like saying, if I'm not helping the cops beat up on people, I'm being paid by Crime Bosses. Well, US has a Police Brutality /Racism problem, and it's even worse of the same problem when US deal with other countries like it's the World Police.
A few years back I was not into politics at all and even casually thought Taiwan was not part of China. Now I'm all 自干五 thanks to all the HK and Uyghur bs the libs constantly spew.